100: Andy Molinsky - Reach Beyond Your Comfort Zone

Are you thinking about how to grow your business with near and offshore staffing, but you're also wanting to make sure that it's reliable, cost effective and really well done? I think docsa talent is the way to go. Here's why. They don't just fill your jobs. They bring integrity, top talent and a people first approach that's hard to find. I've known the people at Doxa talent for over 20 years now and I say that you can count on them. I have talent. Talk to Doxatalant and you won't be disappointed. Go to doxatalent.com Bill G. Again, that's doxatalent.com Bill g. One more time. Docsatallant.com Bill G. Check it out today. Reach beyond your grasp. We used to say in our core values at my last business in this business we talk about never being finished. It's our growth and development value. This podcast episode is all about reaching, getting outside your comfort zone. And we have Brandeis profess Andy Malinsky on to talk about reaching beyond your grasp, getting outside your comfort zone. Listen in. Hello and welcome again to the Scaling Up Business podcast. I'm your host and business growth coach Bill Gallagher. On the show with me today is Andy Malinsky. Andy is a tenured professor of organizational behavior and psychology at Brandeis University at the business school there and he's the author of an award winning Harvard Business Book review book, Global Dexterity. And the new book is Reach. That's what we're going to talk about today. Reach, getting outside your comfort zone. And I haven't read the book yet, but I've been hearing people talk about it and I saw a snippet of Andy talk. So I thought it'd be great to have. Welcome to the show, Andy.

Thanks for having me on.

Yeah. Tell us about your, give us a little bit of your background before we get into the core idea of Reach. How do you, you know, what led you to academic and business academics like tell us about who you are, where, how do you get to be here. Yeah.

Yeah. So I, I became interested in all this through life experience really. After college I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I went to Europe. I discovered when I was in Europe working for a small company, I was fascinated by cultural adaptation and people stepping outside their comfort zones, especially cultural comfort zones at that time. And I became really interested in research and really getting to the depth of things. So I came back, did a PhD at Harvard, is a joint PhD in the psychology department and at Harvard Business School. And I've always been very interested in blending psychology, business, and also culture. And so from there, I've been a professor for many years. I've done a lot of research and writing on topics mostly about stepping outside your cultural comfort zone and stepping outside your comfort zone in general. As of about, let's say, seven or eight years ago, I'd say I started to kind of develop a dual existence where, yes, by day I'm a professor and I teach and research and everything like that. But I also then by night, not always night, but I do a lot of keynotes. I do consulting with companies. I write for Harvard Business Review, and I've written two popular business books. The first was Global Dexterity, about acting outside your cultural comfort zone. And then about a year ago, I. I came out with Reach, which is about stepping outside your personal comfort zone. It's something I've studied for a long time, something that I've worked with people one on one, and I go into companies to help them with as well. And that's what it's about.

That's interesting. So this whole thing, one of our company values, is never finished. And it's the idea of always being at work on your growth and development until the day you die. And we represent it with different things. But when I went looking for the image that embodied it, it was Jack lalanne. And older folks will recognize Jack lalanne was this guy who. Fitness guru, one of maybe the first fitness gurus in the way we think of them today. And he was working out till the day he died. And I love the idea of doing that. But there's no workout without being a little uncomfortable. Right. There's nothing. And if you get doing the same kind of workout every day, it's comfortable. Right. So there's something about both of those things that I think is really interesting.

Yeah. So that's right. For my book and my work, I've interviewed and worked with people across professions. I didn't study any bodybuilders, I have to tell you, but I did study managers and executives firing people, delivering bad news, performing layoffs, police officers evicting people, doctors performing painful procedures, entrepreneurs, all sorts of people from all sorts of professions to try to understand why is it so hard to step outside your comfort zone? Because a lot of people avoid it. Right. And then, of course, how do people avoid it? But why is it so hard to step outside your comfort zone? And then what can you do about it? So what, distinguish people who are successful from those who weren't successful at Stepping outside their comfort zones. And it's a relevant topic at all levels, really. And I've found that especially in the consulting I do in companies and the speaking, that at all levels, whether it's entry level employees, whether it's sort of people who are tapped as high potential, but then they're somewhat terrified about the fact that they now have to enter these jobs that they don't feel prepared for, whether it's growing and scaling from a level that you feel comfortable with to a level that you've never been at before, and that requires you to do all sorts of things that you've never done at any of these phases. I think stepping outside your comfort zone, it's a key skill.

I work with a lot of entrepreneurs and business leaders, and I would say both in particular in that world have a kind of imposter syndrome. Right. They're all worried that they're going to get found out for being not qualified to do what they do, to be where they're at. And that is a fundamental trait. Right. And yet it does seem that even those guys and gals are finding themselves in, you know, retreating to a comfort zone. So why even, why do we need to get outside the comfort zone? What's the point of that? Why not be comfortable? Well, it implies safety too, right?

It's true. And you know, I actually wrote, wrote a Harvard Business Review article about just this question. You know, maybe there sometimes you want to stay right in your comfort zone. And I would never want anyone who reads my books or, you know, comes to my sessions and so on to think to themselves, gosh, I have to get, you know, outside my comfort zone in every possible situation. Because I don't think that's that, that's what we do. That's not what we want to do. I think you want to pick a couple of high leverage, important, relevant situations that are key to your growth and development. I think they're throughout our lives, professional lives and personal lives too. They're key transition points for us. Those are the points where it might be in order to achieve your goals, key to step outside your comfort zone. Let's say pitching and promoting yourself to venture capitalists or networking or making small talk with people you don't know or public speaking or whatever it is ends up being really key for you to get to the next phase. But those are things that terrify you. You feel super uncomfortable doing. Those are the kinds of sort of dilemmas that I help people with. I help them understand where their pain points are. And I have A system for doing that. And then I help them overcome these challenges and learn to step outside their comfort zones.

So what are the. So one more thing sort of foundational before we talk about how. And like that. Do you have a working definition of comfort zone? It seems really obvious, but is there something important about what is the comfort zone?

Yeah, I guess at its essence it's a metaphor, right? It has to do with the presence or lack of anxiety. But you know, what I like to talk about is I like to talk about different, different types of, you know, buckets of situations that we experience in our lives. And some of those situations are what you might call are in, you know, the comfort zone. These are situations that, that, that for us at this point in time in our lives are pretty easy. Low levels of anxiety and we don't run away from them, whatever it might be. Maybe for you, you know, pitching and promoting yourself and in whatever context is actually pretty low hanging fruit and you can go do it and it's in your comfort zone. Low anxiety. Then there's a whole other bucket of situations that I call in your sort of stretch zone or learning zone you could call. And those are situations that are a stretch. They're not in the comfort zone. They do elicit certain levels of anxiety. Not sort of dysfunctional levels of anxiety, not overflowing anxiety, but enough anxiety to make you question, approach or avoid. And then there's the panic zone. That's the third bucket. These are things you're terrified of. These are things that you avoid at all costs. Now, you know, different situations are going to be in different buckets at different points in our lives and in our sort of career journey. Something in our stretch zone or learning zone ultimately might end up becoming in our comfort zone through growth and development and experience and coaching and training and so on and so forth. But that's how I help people understand what a comfort zone is. And of course it's very subjective. What's in your comfort zone might not be in mine and so on.

Well, one of the things that immediately springs to mind that I find in the one on one work with leaders and also with leadership teams is pointing out how comfortable they are in the muck. Frequently we're dealing with dysfunctional teams and low performing people and persistent problems, things that have been around for a long time. And what I have to often point out to the team as the outsider, that they can't often see for themselves is that they're actually pretty comfortable in that environment with all the crap that they've Been dealing with forever. They're actually comfortable with it, and they'll protest for a minute and then on reflection, very often start to notice. In fact, yes, this is familiar. And if it's really familiar and they've learned to work around it, they might, in fact be comfortable with it.

Yeah, then I could see that. And they might not have felt that they ever could be comfortable in it before they started. And there also might be situations. I mean, I don't know, but there could be situations even within there that they aren't so comfortable with and that they're avoiding. I actually opened my book Reach with the story of a young entrepreneur who had to ultimately make the decision to fire her best friend from her startup. So, you know, there could be situations in there that, yes, they're generally comfortable in the muck, but if you really examine. Examine it and look at it, there are areas of improvement and growth there that they might kind of be avoiding because they're uncomfortable. When we feel anxious, we tend to try to protect ourselves. And by protecting ourselves, we avoid. It protects us. But then, of course, it doesn't make it any easier to do it the next time around.

Right. The devil you know is a phrase that comes to mind.

Right.

There you go. So tell us, why don't you share that story with us about what she had to deal with and what she recognized and how she approached it?

Yeah, so that was just one of many stories that I've learned about through my research. And she was a young entrepreneur, started a company, hired her best friend right off the bat. She tried to hire a lot of other people, too. And in fact, she courted them from pretty good jobs to come join her and her team. After a while, she realized that her best friend was undermining the group and she didn't know what to do. It was a. It was a real difficult situation for her on many fronts. And actually it's a good segue to talk about some. And we can come back to her in a sec. But to come back to talk a little bit about what the challenges I find that people in general face stepping outside their comfort zone. So there's authenticity. Like, this isn't me doing this, firing this person. I'm not the kind of person who fires people. Right. That's the feeling so that people can struggle, feeling inauthentic. A second challenge people experience is likability. The idea that. That if I step outside my comfort zone in this situation, in her case, you know, firing someone, this person will hate me. Now she very well Might be right. But that likability challenge can happen not just when you're firing someone. It could happen if you're just trying to. Let's say you're trying to learn to be more assertive and outspoken, but you're afraid. You're not usually like that. You're afraid people think that you are a jerk or something worse if you do that. So there's a likability challenge. There's the competence challenge. What if I'm bad at this? What if I. And by the way, you talked about hip hop syndrome, that's kind of like, you know, at the intersection of the authenticity challenge and the competence challenge. Like, this doesn't feel like me, and I'm bad at this, and people can tell I'm bad at this. Right. So, you know, there's a variety of challenges. I'll just mention the last two briefly. But there's the resentment challenge. Not in her case. That wasn't a key challenge. Like feeling resentful. You have to do this in the first place. But the last challenge is the morality challenge. And sometimes, in her case, absolutely. Sometimes people feel that they're doing something wrong. Stepping outside their comfort zone, like, this feels wrong. I shouldn't be doing this. And you can make the logical argument that you should be doing it or it's legitimate to do. And in fact, that's actually key when you're trying to overcome these barriers. But the barrier itself is worth noting, that you feel like you're doing something wrong. If you think about it, you have the authenticity challenge, the likability challenge, competence challenge, resentment challenge, morality challenge. You might not experience all five, rarely do, but at least one or two, you know that that can make stepping outside your comfort zone tough.

You know, when you. When you said authenticity, I wasn't sure how it came to play. And as you said it, I realized. So it's one that's used a lot of different ways. I definitely use it in working with coaching leaders, but. And, like, how to access it and like that. I think you're speaking, as I hear it, more to the world of, like, identity. This is not who I am. I don't feel right. Like, I'm acting a way that's not who I am. Like, a fixed way of being. I definitely get the likability. I'm not good at this. The resentment. I don't want to be bothered with this. I definitely can hear that in different challenges that I've dealt with. And then the morality. This is wrong. That's that one.

Yeah. This is wrong or I'm doing something wrong.

Oh. Huh. Huh.

I shouldn't be doing this. I'm firing my best friend.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm firing my best friend. I'm firing a family member. Right.

Or I'll tell you another one. You know, a lot of. A lot of small business owners, or maybe not even so small, told me they struggle when they have to hire people. They're not telling them the whole story about their company. They're not telling those people they're hiring and trying to kind of woo away that they only have four months left of Runway, you know, funding for their company. They're not telling them that. Exactly. And so, you know, of course they need to hire these really good people to get more funding and be successful, but they don't tell them the whole story. And I talked with several business owners who struggled with that, you know, inside. Like, you know, man, I feel like I'm kind of lying here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For me, there's always like a fear factor there. Like, oh, I have to do this this way. When in fact, you don't necessarily. Like, there are a lot of people who, if you told them, hey, it's a high risk, high reward environment, come on in. You never know. But the payoff could be huge, and people could suck that up, Right?

True.

But if you're trying really hard, you get to. So give us the other. You were talking also about, as we prepared, you were talking about another manager at an investment firm that had to deal with something. Talk about share that story maybe, too.

Yeah, sure. That's a story. Her name's Annie Harris, and it's a story that I use throughout the book because it was just such a poignant story. It really feels familiar, I think, to a lot of people. What happened there is that she was a relationship manager at an investment firm. So her job was basically to get pretty wealthy people to invest their money in the firm. The protocol at the firm was that she needed to bring a portfolio manager with her to all client meetings. And this portfolio manager would. He'd know the intricacies of the stocks and bonds and so on and so forth. In theory, there's no issue. The problem was that he was a complete jerk and he was undermining her in front of clients. She might tell him his name was Rick. She might say, rick. These particular clients really care about tax issues, let's say, just as an example. And he'd sort of dismiss it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. He'd go into the meeting with her and he would undermine her and he'd sort of dismiss these tax issues in front of the clients and it completely embarrassing, humiliating her, totally undermining her. And this is just one example. But it kept happening time and time again and she was angry, I mean livid, and she had to tell him off, she had to talk to him, she had to put him in his place and get him to stop doing this. But she couldn't do it. Actually, eventually she did. She did. And that's actually interesting too. But she had the hardest time for the reasons we were talking about. She was a fairly, I don't know, kind of a timid, self effacing, non assertive kind of person. She didn't feel authentic. She worried he would hate her if she stood up to him. When of course, he's the hateable one. She felt incompetent. She didn't know what to say, how to say it. It was just a mess and she was really struggling, stepping outside her comfort. Z. Eventually she did, but it was just such a poignant story to me and it resonates with a lot of people that I tell it to.

So in her case, this whole standing up was outside. I think each of us, from our own individual background, from our cultural identity, from our gender, from our education, from our experience, we all have places that were comfortable and uncomfortable roles, ways of acting and being that are elusive for us. And, and, and that probably our lives are well organized around avoiding. Right?

No question.

Human beings have elaborate strategies to stay comfortable and to avoid those. And, and, and, and there's certainly no harm in that strategy. Right. It's survival. It's, it's, it helps us to avoid.

Pain and loss, but true, it also might help us avoid growth.

Absolutely. Right. I think like one of my earliest things that immediately springs to mind is the moment that I walked across the, what was the cafeteria, right. To the girl at the seventh grade dance. And for the first time in a social situation asked a, you know, a peer girl of interest to dance with me in that setting. That was incredibly difficult. Right. And I think that there are many things like that now, fortunately that went well. Right. But there are many people for whom, and I can remember another time in another situation a couple years later where I approached a group of girls and one of whom I was interested in and I said something and they laughed. And I don't know if they laughed because I was hilarious, but at the time I interpreted it that they laughed because I was hilarious. Right. That I was laughable and not of interest and that my approach was, you know, was amusing to them, not entertaining. Right. So in a good way. And, and I, I was crushed by that. And I, and then I became angry at them and I, you know, those. And, and I started to develop a whole picture about how they were, you know, not girls worth being interested in. Right. To wall myself off from that. And then, and then I notice, like, probably a lot of us do, that I develop strategies around making sure I knew how it was going to go before I did it. Right. So that's where a friend tells you, oh, yeah, she's interested or whatever. And then you do that. And I think there's total parallels in business. But when, you know, we, we go to the safe investor first or we ask the easy. We, you know, whatever the easy ask is we, we work on that or we try to figure out elaborate ways not to fail, not to be embarrassed in all of that. Right.

Oh, yeah. No, there's no question. I think dating and in business have such incredible commonalities.

Right. Well, they're both, they totally relate to selling, pitching, negotiating. Right. The whole world of getting. Yes.

Is true. But all. And from a different. I agree it could be that, but it also could be, you know, trust and often in authenticity, in a deep, meaningful connection. Right. With your most treasured and trusted business partners. It's similar to having an intimate relationship, so to speak.

Yeah. So tell. Why don't you share a little bit about your sort of journey into public speaking, because it sounds like that's probably relevant as you got outside your comfort zone. And then we'll probably start to hear the tools that you use for doing that in that source.

Sure. Yeah. No, it's, you know, that's the irony that I've written a book about stepping outside your comfort zone. I teach and train people and. Well, maybe it's not such an irony. You know, oftentimes you study what you struggle with, in a sense.

Absolutely.

So it's interesting. Nowadays I give keynotes, I did a TED talk, I speak at companies all the time. I'm a professor and so on. But 20 years ago, when I started, I was incredibly uncomfortable with public speaking. I would get nervous. What psychologists say catastrophize, I think, of the worst possible case, scenarios and situations. I remember I would bring notes and I would hold and clutch those notes, and I would stand behind the podium and so on. You know, this past week, I gave a keynote and I was remarking to myself how I don't. I don't use notes anymore. I don't even I don't use a podium. I find it actually creates too much psychological distance between me and the audience, and I want to really engage with them. And so I've really come a long way myself. And I've used a lot of the tools that I've found others use to step outside their comfort zone. Like, you know, like conviction. Having the conviction that this is something that is meaningful to do that's really important and really worth doing to you. That's a source. That's a strategy. I find people use to kind of get that wind at their back when their natural tendency would be to avoid. Why is it important? And for me, for public speaking, there have been a lot of reasons. I feel deep down that I have valuable things to offer and to say, and I want to be able to help people with them. I mean, that's always been my mission. But I can't do that from my room. I have to go off there and connect with people. That's been a real big source of motivation for me. Another big tool that I found people use in addition to conviction. And this one's really interesting. I call it customization. I saw this all over the place. So it's the idea that there's no one size fits all way to do anything. You have more power than you think to kind of customize and tweak how you do something. So I'll give you an example in public speaking. So with public speaking, I will always go, if I can, early, and I'll try to meet a couple of people. And if I meet a couple of people first and I go a little early, all of a sudden I'm not speaking to a big intimidating crowd of strangers. I'm speaking to a. Well, maybe a big crowd, but less intimidating because I actually know a couple of them a little bit. Right. So I've already, right there, kind of customized the situation. Another thing I do, actually, I used to do, and I don't do anymore, is that I used to wear a ring, a special ring, every single time I spoke in public. Now that ring had a lot of meaning to me. The stone in the ring is a tiger's eye stone. If we were in person, I could show it to you. Actually, I don't have it with me right now, but it's a really. It's a cool ring. My great uncle found the stone on the beaches of the South Pacific in World War II. He was in the Navy. He came back, he thought it was really cool, and he saved it and he made it into A silver ring with that stone. I always saw him wearing that when I was a kid. And eventually I inherited it. And I learned, sort of as a kid, I just thought it was cool. As a young adult, I thought, wow, this. That's pretty amazing that he did this, that he was in the Navy, that he had the courage to do that. And then I started wearing it and thinking to myself, man, if he could do that, be off in the Navy, away from his family, and so on and so forth and in harm's way, gosh, I can give this speech. And so I would wear it, and I would think about it every single time. And it's funny because I actually don't wear it anymore. It's kind of a bummer because it's a really cool ring. But I don't wear it anymore because I kind of have outgrown it because now I feel pretty comfortable speaking. But those are just a few examples. And there are all sorts of cool, interesting ways you can kind of customize a situation to make it fit just a little bit better for you. And that was such a powerful tool. I heard time and time again in the people I interviewed for my book Reach, but. But also in the people I work with.

So it seems like bringing the customization is bringing some comfort into the discomfort.

Absolutely.

Making it. Giving yourself a bridge back to something in the middle of whatever. Right?

Yeah. And there's so many ways to do it. And I think people in these situations outside their comfort zone don't realize they feel a bit powerless or helpless sometimes, but you actually have a little bit more power than you think.

So the conviction speaks to the reasoning, the motivation, the why of it. Right. And being clear that it matters to you. What about commitment? This is one I always use. I commit myself with my money, with my signature, and then I tell a lot of people about the commitment so that I'm sort of. I have a social pressure around following through on this uncomfortable thing.

Yeah, that's true. And psychology research says that that's. That's a powerful source of motivation as well. I talk about that as well in my book and also in the work that I do. I mean, for some people, commitment doesn't work. That sort of public sense of commitment. I think for some people, it could be embarrassing, and it also could be devastating if they don't follow through on it. So it doesn't necessarily work for everybody, but it can work. And I actually talk about that in my book a bit. I also talk in my book when I work with people about the idea that you want, you sort of set yourself up for success and sort of. It's the idea of like, I don't know, you've probably heard of like couch to 10k or couch to 5k or like people who aren't runners to kind of figure out a way to run. You know, I don't think, I've actually never done it, but I don't think you literally get off the couch and run a 10K. You probably like, you know, pull a muscle. You probably get hurt if you do that. You probably want to, you know, you run around the block once or maybe walk even first and then run and then maybe run a bit more and then you're kind of working up those muscles. And in the same way, if you're learning, step outside your comfort zone. We'll talk about public speaking. You probably don't want to go from being terrified to public speaking to be on the TED Talk stage. Probably not a good idea. You probably want to work your way up, you know, try something in front of people, a couple people, you know, get some feedback. Maybe work up to speaking in a small group at work that you feel relatively comfortable with. Then maybe join Toastmasters, whatever it is, you kind of of moving in that direction and sort of building on small wins, building your self efficacy and so on and so forth. So it could be that you're making that commitment, as you said. It could also be that you're sort of taking those orchestrated steps towards success.

Yeah, so I hear those as stepping stones along the way to something. But there is something inspiring about the big goal. If I'm terrified of public speaking, but I see myself on a world stage, if I claim that, and then I work on the path to get there, I'm dealing with the steps. But I heard about the couch to 5K or some comparable thing like that, and I was like, yeah, whatever. But then I wanted to transform my fitness and I didn't know what it really involved at the time, but a triathlon just sounded audacious. And I said, I'm going to do that. And I started telling people I'm going to run a triathlon. And people who knew it probably thought, okay. But to me it just sounded great. So I loved saying it, I loved thinking about it. And then I had to deal with the 5k and all the other pieces that go into it. And it did represent a huge transformation. Now I went on to do like 45 of them and now it's kind of old hat, but at the time, and I remember Finishing that first one, like in the middle of the swim. And I'm, I'm like, oh my God, how can I even do this? And I'm failing at this. And this is horrible. It's so unbelievably cold. And then I finally finished that part and I'm like, okay, well, now I just have to bike. And the bike was pretty hard. And then I'm like, well, now I just need to run. And then on the way back, on the return of the run, I'm like, holy crap, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. Now I'm like, something. And then I finished that and I'm like, well, maybe I should get good at it. I never did quite get good at it. Parts of it.

No, I think, by the way, that's pretty awesome you've done all that. I think that it actually points to something else that I talk about a lot, which is taking a leap. I think when you do take a leap, whether it's your fitness or your public speaking or networking or pitching yourself, whatever it is, when people take a leap and don't avoid, what you benefit from is self discovery. Discovery, you're not going to discover much about yourself if you don't try. If you try what you often discover and what I hear time and time again, and I can't tell you how many times I've heard, this is number one, this actually isn't as hard as I thought it was in retrospect. Number two, I'm actually a little bit better at this than I thought I was right. What those learnings about yourself, those self learnings do is that that encourages you, nudges you to actually try. If you have two doors, like door one is okay, I'm going to try it again. Door two is no way I'm avoiding. It pushes you towards trying again and it sort of reverses the vicious cycle of avoidance and kicks in more of like what you might call a virtuous cycle. Now, how do you get to taking a leap? In your case, it sounds like to take a leap. It's really important for you to set bold, audacious goals and to tell people about them. That fits you for other people. For me, I don't think that would fit me and I know it would not fit some other people. That's where some of the customization comes in. You need to find what's going to enable you to take that leap. I find that that's really key. I set out a set of strategies that I've heard from all the people that I've worked with and interviewed and so on. But ultimately the key is to find a path that works for you to get you to try to take that leap and learn from it.

Well, it's probably a great place to end this show. Let's ask folks to all pick an area where they'd like to take a leap, where you'd like to expand, where you know. And you probably all have at least one area right now. It might be in a business realm. It might be a new market, a new product, it might be a key hire, it might be letting someone go. It might be developing a a new capacity. It might be stepping to the front of your business and becoming the spokesperson for it. So whatever it is for you, I would pick an area now and then approach it using some of the tools. If you'd like to read more about Reach, you can of course find the book Reach Online or you can go to andymolinsky.com we'll put that in the show notes as well. For folks, I want to thank you so much for being on the show and I want to remind our listeners that every week we bring a new show to you with a new idea around scaling your business and developing yourself as a leader in the business. And you'll find all of those shows@scalingupbusiness.com as well as loads of free tools and descriptions, how to get your team scaling up, agendas, tips, things like that. For that you can get our growth guide download right there. So scalingupbusiness.com, andymolinsky.com thanks again so much for being on the show with us today.

Andy, thanks for having me. It's fun conversation.

Well, this is our hundredth episode of the show and I'm very proud of that milestone. Hopefully we have a thousand more. I want to give special thanks to our original growth guru, Verne Harnish. Our show is produced by Nye Obaid. Audio production is by Podfly Productions. Audio editing by Albert Burge. Our show notes are compiled by Ayn Kodina and proofread by Tim McGinnis. Gallon. If you got some value out of this show, why don't you share it with somebody else and let us know the parts that you loved. Thanks again for listening and keep scaling up. Are you ready to turn your goals into daily wins? You should check out our scoreboard software powered by Align, it's the official software for scaling up with scoreboard. You'll get an AI driven coach for priorities and KPIs and it'll help keep your team focused on what matters most. With Align, you can track your goals in real time and you'll even see results on the go. With their mobile app, you can rest easy knowing that Align has world class onboarding and support to set your team up for success. This is really more than just software, it's what I actually use to manage growth in our scaling up client teams. Unlock clarity and results with Scoreboard by Aligned. To try it now, go to aligntoday.com Bill G One more time. Aligntoday.com Bill G that's aligntoday.com Bill G Check it out and try it now.