112: Case Study: Jill Nelson Growing Your Service-Based Business without Burning Out

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Well, this podcast is all about how to scale a service business and how to give great service in the process. Many of us today have service businesses and this is a case study conversation with a CEO of a company that scaled a reception business to 500 employees and $50 million. Now is what they're approaching right now and I think you'll get a lot of it. You may also hear some ways to improve the service in your business. So listen in. Hello and welcome again to the Scaling Up Business Podcast. I your host and growth coach, Bill Gallagher. On the show with me today is Jill Nelson. Jill is the CEO and founder of Ruby Receptionist, right callruby.com and she's here to share a Scaling up success story. And we're really focusing on scaling service businesses which so many of the people that we have work with today and it raises all sorts of particular challenges. So this is a case study call, right? So Case Study Podcast show. Welcome to the show, Jill. Great.

Well thank you so much Bill. It's really a pleasure and an honor to be on the Scaling up podcast.

Yeah. Now so a couple disclosures. We will have for you all a link and a special deal landing page in this that I'll give you later. Special thing for Scaling up business and I've started using the room reception service a few weeks ago. I've been aware of it for a long time, but we had one of those old phone systems, right where you call in and you get this nice recorded greeting, then you push a bunch of different numbers. You have to listen closely even if you're not really paying attention, you're driving or whatever and then you punch the wrong number and then it goes to the wrong person and they try to transfer you back but they drop the call. And I realize that most of the people we deal with call one of us directly. But the new people or people who've lost who are really frustrated with something, call the main number. And it's not a lot of volumes on them, like why the heck do we send people into that phone hell? And I. So that's what had us shift. And I'm excited to have you and we're going to talk more than about, than this. Although I'm very passionate about this and I've been a hypocrite for too long. But I've always said the fundamental lie in business happens when your phone system picks up and it starts with a greeting. Your call is important to us. You answer the phone. The real person, it's not important.

Try to.

And I worked for Sprint years ago and we had all manner of call centers. I had supporting me thousands of people in multiple call centers, from operators to customer service reps to in and outbound telemarketing people and all four of those groups, like, you know, we were minimizing the amount of time on the phone and it was just terrible. So I think there's something fundamental here. But then there's the bigger thing. Like we have lots of service business, whether you're a web development company or you provide some financial services or you have a sort of a real face to face service environment. How do you scale that? Right. There's a lot of people involved and that gets more complex. And managing scaling people is very different than scaling technology. Even though as you're going to tell us, you share that. So before all of that, what is it that has you be an entrepreneur? Where did that begin?

Right. Oh my gosh. Well, and first of all, Bill, thank you for the nice plug about the phone call. The phone call is in our view the most important touch point for your customers and your new customers. Phone calls still in business, especially today. So you asked the question, where did I get the, the bug or how did that come into play? And I, I think I have to go back to being the teenage rebel. And as I was entering college, for me it took a funny shape. But I. My dad was an engineer, a civil engineer. And he built road. He built, built roads and bridges. And my mom was this crazy artist and when I went to school I just somehow in me, I just wanted to study business. And my dad was just totally offended and appalled because he felt like business people just moved paper around and made money and didn't do anything productive. And he felt like I should do something that really created value. And my mom was probably even More appalled because she thought I was creative and she just couldn't believe I would do something as boring as going into business and wanted me to do something creative. So I feel like I'm the one person where getting an accounting degree is an act of rebellion from my parents. But now I look at it and I kind of go, they really did influence me. Because if you look at entrepreneurism, it really is how do you use creativity and innovation to truly create something of value for your customers? At the end of the day, that's what bringing a business to market is. And so I think it was always in me. I even found a paper in Writing 121 class back in 1984 about how small businesses should use a computer to get more than. So I think that's my origin story of entrepreneurism.

So you learn accounting, you defy parents. Right. And did you work as an accountant at some point? You were a receptionist?

That's right. In fact, very quickly in school, as much as I really obviously benefit from that degree, I found out quick it was not the profession was not for me, and ended up starting a family pretty young. And then as I was looking to get back into work, this receptionist opportunity came up and basically someone said, oh, you'd be great for this. And I was like, great for this? I have an accounting degree. This is so beneath me. I ended up taking the job, loved it. And truly, through the five years I ended up staying at that office, learned the real value of that personal connection in growing a business and being successful, and learned how you can be that critical point and never put it down again.

Nice. So talk to us through the launch of the business and how the growth went and some of the stages you went through. Share Begin to tell us about that.

Got it. Yeah. So the original idea was I wanted to create an executive suite for any of you that have been in Portland, Oregon, the Pearl district, back in 2002, 2003. It was up and coming and there was a lot of build. You know, work, live, being built. So my original idea was this executive suite, kind of like the WeWorks of today, only more traditional. Office space was shared receptionist, shared secretarial. But I had no money, I had no business experience. So I couldn't find a landlord willing to build out an entire floor of class A office space at their expense. So I just took like, well, what can I do with the resources I had? I had about $17,000 in a 401k rollover and wrote a business plan and got an SBA loan. An unsecured one, and launched essentially the executive suites concept, minus the space. And it was everything that a small business might need to run their business, you know, get assistance, including the receptionist piece. And I would say at first, and this is part of the whole scaling up journey, really understanding, you know, what our value proposition was. When I started it, I thought it was just like, oh, helping businesses take an essential task off their plates, but very. And so actually the name of our company was not Ruby Receptionist. It was something quite embarrassing and boring. It was WorkSource Inc. Because there was sort of this emphasis on helping you get work done. But our customers spoke early and often and they were like, oh my gosh, you know, we just want a new client because they said the receptionist was nice. Or we just want a new customer because you actually answered your phone, which actually happens quite frequently. And people just told us how friendly we were. We just thought that was table stakes, but quickly learned that that's how businesses can differentiate themselves. And so when we finally had enough capital to be able to hire a real creative firm and get some branding done, the agency said, well, we'll work with you, but only if you change your name. And we think your name should be a female name because your business is about the personal connection and a female's name should be personifies that. And that was really the first sort of inkling that we started to figure out who it was we were and what our true value proposition was. So Ruby was the name that was popular in the 40s and 50s to hearken back to that era where personal service was the norm. But the brand still has a nod to modern day fun pop feel that, you know, harken to the technology.

So said simply, you answer the phone for people. Right. And refer the calls. Right. And you don't do any of the other services now, do you?

We, you know, and it's funny that you say, oh simply, we answer the phone, we answer, we take that simple act, which is really, it is true, we answer the phone, but we take it so seriously and break apart all the elements of that piece. But we, like you said, we refer. So we figure out who the call is for. We're integrated with our customers calendars and their contacts, which is why I asked you if you use the app. And so we're able to see our own customers availability and we know how to direct calls. And then if it's, we're able to answer frequently asked questions, we're able to book pretty simple appointments and we're able to get the caller to the right place or collect the right information. But it really, at the end of the day, it's first and foremost about creating a great first impression for our customers, callers.

So in our use, we just have pointed the phones and so you are answering. But it's remarkable. Like your people are delightful. They answer the phone and you can see the smile. You can hear the smile over the phone. You hear the intelligence in the voice. The person answering the phone is the best possible person to answer the phone. Not somebody who we, you know, had a pulse and we drug them in and we got chained them to the desk and they agreed to do that. Like they're delightful and it's who you'd want to take the call and speak to your people. But I think that, that. So it's simple. I think it's important for people to hear. Like it's not some convoluted thing. It takes a lot to do that well, which is what we're going to talk about and in scale. So we haven't said it yet, but you're approaching 500 employees doing this. Right. And you're working on a goal of $50 million in sales. So this is not a nothing business, right?

That's right.

And you are app integrated and you can do some scheduling and some things like that. I just haven't done that yet.

Right, not yet. And also, we host your phone number too, so you can get rid of a phone bill. Right, but that's another subject.

Yes, yes, they'll host the phone. There's a lot of stuff that you can do and then you can integrate it. And like my team, we have a regular formal office. I'm not in it today. This is the home office and the quietest place for recording our podcast episodes. And then actually in about an hour and a half, I'll be down in my regular office, which is where our client coordinator works. And usually she's the only one there. I'm in there periodically. And then my marketing director and show producer works somewhere else. She actually happens to be in the Mediterranean right now.

Nice.

You spoke to her in the last couple days or something? I think she was in Beirut or something like that. Right.

Wow.

Yeah.

Well, I hope she has posted to hold her call so that she can enjoy her vacation.

My bookkeeper works across town and I never have seen her in person. Right. So we have this team. I have coaches that I work with and specialists in different fields. And we all work from different places, mostly on our mobile phone phones. We also use WhatsApp and Skype and that kind of thing. But we're connected and we're roaming all over the place all the time.

That's great. That's great.

And yet we want to have that. So talk to us about how do you provide that consistent service with 500 people in a cost effective way? What are the pieces that have gone into that?

Yeah, well, you know, you really hit the nail on the head when you said it, that it's a, it's, you know, 500 people who truly want to be here doing that, connecting with people, making a difference in people's day. And I think that's the biggest lesson of all, which is, you know, knowing what it is you stand for and surrounding yourself with people who really are driven to do the same things, you know, and we like to say that it's not 200 phone calls that a receptionist might take in a day, it's 200 opportunities to make a difference in their day. The lessons over the 15 years of saying that and actually living it, those are the things that have taken challenge after challenge and sort of bump and bruise and mistake after another to get there. But it is, you know, it is first and foremost the most important thing that we're about making people's day through that personal connection. And we have to just stick to that. And when we start to focus on things like attendance as much as, you know, it might be tempting to want to, or productivity, it's great to have those all be a part of the conversation. But when it starts to become sound to our employees like it's the most important thing, then we lose sight of that. Yeah, so, but, you know, so over, over the years when we were small and it was actually me as the receptionist and a couple of friends of mine, you know, there wasn't a lot of structure. We didn't even have any kind of training at all and we could hear each other. So that commitment to just being nice and friendly, that was, that was easy. But yeah, you know, and today we serve over 8,000 small businesses across the United States and there's, you know, as you said, we're approaching five full time employees. And so to have that consistency, it's, you know, it's not, I would say we actually do a better job of it today, but it creates a lot, you know, there's a lot of systems that go into place. So the consistency is sort of. At the foundation, I have a service pyramid that Ruby Receptionist, we actually trademarked it and I think it's available to your listeners. It's in the shape of a phone. And it's. It's our model on how we deliver service at scale. And it's kind of maslow hierarchy of needs in that the base has to be taken care of first before you can aspire to the top. But really at the base of the pyramid are the table stakes. Things like doing what you say you're going to do and the infrastructure to make sure you can do that consistently, reliably, at scale, with the right quality. And. But at the top is that striving for the personal connection. So as you get bigger and bigger and you create more and more processes and systems that can create consistency, but it can also, you can lose sight of the ultimate goal, which is to really make a personal connection. So how can you make a personal connection when you have all these rules and regulations? So it's this delicate balance. And the service pyramid kind of rolls it all up into one where we use the very base to get the things right. Like making sure that we pronounce names correctly. We have a little audio whisper in our receptionist ears, making sure that we can spell people's names correctly. That's why we're integrated with our customers contacts. So if it's a repeat caller, we already have their correct spelling. It's why we have lots and lots of technology to enable us to make sure we're routing calls place. But then the magic is really about the experience. So as we go further up the pyramid, we start to get into layers where it's really about every single touch point and looking at each touch point and thinking about how do you want that experience to show up? And designing experiences that are still repeatable and they're trainable, but they're really a big. They're very conscientious about trying to deliver that exceptional and still yet consistent experience. But as you get towards the very top of the pyramid, that's where it gets challenging. And this is about really inspiring and empowering your employees, once you have the basics to truly step outside of that and sometimes even break the rules and make those personal connections. And we do that by incenting, inspiring and empowering them to listen to our callers and our customers and to listen for those cues, to understand what they may not be saying with their words, but that they're asking for with their size or their pauses or the tone of their voice. And then challenging our employees to find moments of true connection. And then we have some really cool systems and to blow people out of the water that way too.

So when you Recruit. You're referencing this world of getting people aligned. And I know you're follower of Rock Habits, the original word term for our scaling up work. As it grew and you're an 11 year EO member, how do you recruit and then keep the people aligned? What is that start?

Yeah, yeah. Well, I would say the recruiting part. Now my talent team may disagree but we have about 75% of our new employees are other employee referral. The recruiting part is I think, I'm not going to say it's simple but it's probably simpler than taking a really inspired and motivated employee and having them work for a year and then doing things in the business that demotivate them or de incent them to, to give great service. But I will say and this is probably, you know, it's a Rockefeller habits principle, those aligned employees, our culture is designed to attract and it's designed to repel because those employees that truly, truly care about making a difference in somebody else's day, it's a real turn off to somebody who's not motivated by that. In fact, they'll come into the office and actually get this. They'll be overwhelmed with all the positivity and might think that we're actually being fake and that's actually totally fine. We want to make sure that people that are here are motivated to be here and if that's not you, that's great. There's something else for you. But we're really serious about being positive and making other people's day. So the willingness to be pretty serious about protecting that culture and our trainers who all started out as receptionists themselves, they're a huge protector of our culture and they can recognize when somebody's just, you know, they're not feeling it and help them, you know, figure out that this is not the place for them pretty early. So I would say that's really.

So in the beginning you're screening for a fit to the values and being able to fulfill on the brand and promise that you have. And it's useful for people to know if you've read the book Uncommon Service, they talk about Commerce bank and they talk about recruiting for a resting smile face. Right. And they're looking for people who have a natural smile. Right. I don't have that. You would not hire me and they would not hire me because I tend to look serious. I have a more natural sort of straight thing and I have a sarcastic humor that would be terrible in a phone. I'm irreverent, really not appropriate unless you really are tuned into who you're speaking to and there's room and permission to be that way and it can be appreciated. Right. But it's not the right thing in that environment. And you're actually looking for that. And I hire for that as well. My client coordinator in Hawaii for a long time who did assisted with all our sessions and touches before and after with our clients in Hawaii, I hired because she was in one of my workshops and she was sitting fairly near the front and she just was smiling. And so, you know, I had like 142 people in the scaling up workshop. And I'm looking out at people trying to connect and I would just look for a face or two and try to work. And I kept coming back to her because she was really easy to look at. Like easy to be not just pretty, but that she smiled like, it's like, oh, everything I said was gold. So if I started to have whatever, I'd go back to her for a minute. I'm like, okay, I feel good now. I'm generous. Let's go find somebody else who looks, looks distressed. I'll spend some time with them. I'll go back to Heather. And then.

Right.

And she ended up working with us for a long time. People really enjoyed that, right. Having something you want, there's a space for it. Right?

That's right. That's right. And, you know, so hiring on the attitude thing, I think that's one of the first lessons of Rockefeller habits, you know, scaling up. I'm so old school. I keep.

No, no, it's fine. Yeah.

So I was just like, yes, do that. And then very quickly realized that without the right training. But that can also be a disaster because if you're going, okay, you know, I'm going to hire for value. You cannot assume that people know exactly what to do. And I would say we have a lot of employees that are in their first professional job and their inner being loves making people happy, but they haven't necessarily even been taught the right conversational skills or even how to construct an email or, you know, what does actually delight and how you don't have to say no almost ever when you're on the phone as a receptionist, there's almost always something you can do and training to, instead of saying no or instead of using words that we know offend people naturally, like, all of that training becomes really, really important. And if you're, if you also aligned in value, then you want that training because you want to accomplish those things. But I had a, I had A One of my funny lessons about touch points and training was that it's just like 2007 or 8. It was pretty far into the business. I think we had about 60 employees then and they were all receptionist. And I was up in my back office and I looked up from my computer and there was this guy standing in my office doorway and he was a friend and a potential customer. And he was like, funny. I walked all the way back here without so much as a hello. The receptionist company has no receptionist. And I had like, I had realized that we had done this amazing job of training people how to be a receptionist on the phone. And yet. But it didn't occur to them that when a visitor stopped in that they should greet them with a hello and ask them where they're going. So this whole mantra of we train on every touch point. So now we have the greet seat and treat little training vignette that we provide everybody that interacts with our visitors.

So you're saying everybody spends some time working in the front?

No, no, no. But back then we had no actual front desk. So every single solitary person got trained on how to greet a visitor in the office. So that never happened again.

Real world environment.

Yes.

Oh, look at you.

But like, even that, like, even that training, like I've noticed when you go to like a fast food place, some of the larger franchises, you can tell they've actually trained their workers. Oh, when a guest comes in the door, look up and smile and acknowledge. And some of those things seem second nature. But without that training and infrastructure, even a person who truly wants to do a great job, if it's their first job, it doesn't occur to them. But when you make that a system of every time someone comes in, we're going to acknowledge and smile at them. Then it's, you know, it's easy and you get that consistency.

So I was with a couple clients last week and we were doing an offsite planning session. We were in a hotel suite to do the day with the senior members of the team and we went to lunch and we go down to lunch. It's a beautiful day. We want to sit on the deck of the restaurant, main restaurant in the hotel that we're at, and we stood there and it says, please wait to be seated or check in with the host or whatever. Nobody's at the proper host station, but these other people are standing over by the side and they clearly see us and they continue to talk to. They talk, but not even talking like a hurried fashion, like we're Gonna wrap up this sentence and then get over to you. They talk, they deliver it. And they look down at their screen and they pause. They looked around the room, and they were like, what the heck are they doing? When are they gonna come over? And they ignore us. And then finally we spoke up and said, hey, is there a host or someone that Are we supposed to be doing something? And they're like, oh, yeah, we'll be with you in a minute. And then run right over realizing they'd made an error. Right. It turns out the person who seemed the most clueless was the front manager of the restaurant. And then we actually had great service once we were seated. So I ended up tipping. Okay. But I was astonished. Like, how long is that restaurant gonna manage? They're not even a quarter full. They're leaving. People wait while they spend time on internal conversations of whatever they were considering. But it wasn't serving. When they have an active. Just. It blows my mind to get an animalist.

Yeah, it's really. It's really, really simple things that make or break an impression. And notice you didn't say anything about the food. You really were talking about what your experience was like. And, you know, we have a ton of customers that are financial planners and attorneys. And I often say that we, you know, we have no idea how good you are at your job. You know, for all we know, like, especially, like, you know, an estate planner, you know, until we pass away, like, your work is unproven. And so how somebody feels about the job, a professional with a, you know, an advanced degree and years of experience. It all comes down to the experience you wrap it in and how you feel when you're interacting, whether or not you're cared about and whether or not someone's being proactive and. And all of those touch points wrap up to, like, how good of an attorney someone might think you are, which is kind of ironic.

Which had nothing to do with that particular legal expertise applied. We've talked about recruiting and aligning people. We've mentioned a little bit some of the systems. We've talked about training and the service mindset. You said briefly, something that I think is interesting. I'd like you to spend a minute on that before we run out of time in the show. But you talked about empowering people versus having a lot of questions, rules. So tell us about that. Like having rules and procedures versus empowering people.

Yeah, and I wish I had a whole hour on all the ways that we employers take somebody, an employee who really cares, and turns them into somebody that gives horrible service because of the way that we manage them. I could go on and on and on about that. You know, one of the ways is that we, you know, one. One bad customer really burns us. So then, you know, we create these rigorous procedures and policies that kind of just make a horrible experience for the 99.9% of the customers who would never, you know, do that to us. But so the empowering piece, I'm thinking.

Of the tsa when you say that immediately.

Oh, really?

Well, like, go to the airport. And they're like, no. Our rule around this is liquids is this. Then you go to the next airport. And that's not the rule. Like, but they're very clear. No, it's the rule.

I used to do these new Ruby branches. I still actually did them at our headquarters space, but I used to do them with every new employee. Now our site directors do them. But I once had a receptionist tell me, I love working here because you actually let us be nice to the customers.

Wow.

Where did you work before that? You weren't allowed to be nice to your customers. That's kind of crazy. But as I've seen, I think we do that. We, you know, so at Ruby, the easiest story I can tell for an audience that perhaps doesn't use Ruby is we have our wow Station. And our wow Station behind that includes a prepaid Amazon account that anyone can buy anything for anybody, any prize, no questions asked. They just have to be willing to share the story. And we also have sort of a greatest hit. So as people have been finding those moments of connection, we talk about training our employees to listen for those moments of connection. So there's some that happen repeatedly. For example, as receptionists, we know every single baby that gets born because we get telephone. And so we have a Ruby baby onesie that says, hello, world that gets sent out to that customer. We get tons of callers asking us why we're so cheery in the morning, or, oh, I need another cup of coffee. So we'll send them a Ruby mug with some Portland coffee, and that's all stocked in the wow station. But we're also listening for, you know, more. And also colds, common colds. If you're. If you're sneezing over the phone or you sound, you know, stuffed up, you know, dress assured, A Ruby mug with some tea and some chapstick and tissues, you know, in the. In the mail for you. It's probably a nice note card sent.

Your way to the caller or to the customer.

To the customer, we Generally don't know how to reach the caller, but we have to. So those are things that we have to ask our receptionists to do outside in addition to answering phone calls. And on the one hand, receptionists love it because again, these are people who love making other people's stage. So to be empowered to be able to log on and. Or go to the wow Station and package up anything they. They want, but it's an extra effort and, and they need to be reminded continually that we celebrate that because when you get into your daily routine, you know, these are moments where you have to step outside. We're big proponents of note cards, but the way we, the way we train on that is we do story sharing and we give big awards at every staff meeting, generally with cash. And we, you know, we tell the wow story of the quarter and all the core value in action stories. But we also have this 10 ways to connect, which is also on the handout that I provided to your listeners. And so it's things like, we train people to listen for, like, things like if somebody won an award or if they've moved offices or if you hear of somebody's favorite sports team or maybe you're both from the same hometown, you're, you know, moments of connection. And what we can train for are ways to listen, to find those moments, to make the connection. And so I just found an article online about Ruby. One of our customers, I didn't even know that he had written this. I feel terrible. Back in April, wrote that he joked with a receptionist to tell the caller he was on a spaceship, and she had gone out to his website and downloaded or printed out a picture of him, cut his face out, pasted it in a rocket ship, and then made this handmade card and sent him this funny note about, you know, going in space. And he was just so moved by this handwritten, handcrafted card that our receptionist had written him that he wrote a blog post about it. And obviously we didn't train her to say, hey, you know, if someone talks about a spaceship, go on, go on their website and print out a picture of him. But we have trained to say listen for those opportunities to do just anything outside of the norms to help people understand that we're here, we're on their team, we're listening. And then we also have to make sure that we're not de. Incenting that by, you know, in terms of how we talk about people's productivity or, you know, their timeliness and making sure that we're creating space for that and highlighting those and celebrating and even, you know, incenting for those kinds of things. So when we have a balanced scorecard on how we measure our receptionist productivity and personal connections both to our customers and our fellow employees are at the top of the scorecard.

Yeah. So that's a metric around delivering on a brand promise. Right. And would be a scorecard piece that would be directly tied to the outcomes that you want on the job itself.

That's right.

Really great.

That's right.

I hear so much of the work done it and I hope our listeners get. This is how we take a small business that's really operated by the founder. Right. The founder is delivering the service in the beginning, answering the phone, and then we start to build that business out till we get to 500 people and $50 million. That's a scale of something that I think is really, really cool and delivering something that is top rated, well regarded, getting attention, growing handsomely fulfilling on that. And I heard you speak to all sorts of aspects of scaling a service business from recruiting the right kind of people that really fit what you want to do. Well, the first one is actually even that kind of happens accidentally in the beginning. And then you start to hone in on a strategy. First you're not going to be a co working office suite kind of place. You end up just providing the phone service because that's all you could pull off. And then within that you start to find the most traction in what. And you get a branding firm who's probably like a lot of things. It's not that they're so brilliant, although I'm sure they're brilliant. It's that they're outside your business. They can see the piece to focus on and they focus on service. You change the brand up. Then you start to get systematic about recruiting and aligning the employees, training the employees, developing people first. And you build the systems to support them, to do what they want to do and the structures and you change it. You actually eliminate policies and a lot of things and give them latitude, empower them to do what's needed to fulfill on the job and you create lots of fun ways to engage them. I'm sure that being around there is actually a positive.

It is coming to work here is like people go, oh, I was having a bad day and I said, oh, I can't wait to get to work because I know my fellow coworkers will cheer me up.

Yeah. So get the right people, give them, process and automate the kinds of things that matter, but don't overburden them with a lot of stuff, keep them trained, empower them to do the job they need to do and keep delivering on those values over time. And that's how the business skills. You know, we wanted to talk along the way. We've talked about your great service. I'm sure we have people interested. So we did create a landing page for you that I'll put in the show notes here. It's callruby.com if you just want to kind of get a taste. But if you want to get the deal, go to callruby.com scalingupbusiness and then the promo code is scaling upbusiness. I think it's all caps, but we'll put all that right in the show notes for this particular show. Thank you so much.

And you can always call us and reference the show and we'll be happy to take care of you that way too, because we're not super bound in procedures.

You're awesome. Heard about on scaling a business, just call them and ask for it. You'll get it that way too. So I'm so glad to have you. I mentioned you actually on a show recently with Tom Peters came up and then I'm like, oh, we should actually get them on because we were talking about service and being great at service anyway. So I'm really happy. Thanks for being on the show with us today.

Thank you. Likewise. Huge fan.

All right. We shared the link for the show callruby.com scalingupbusiness and you can use the code scalingupbusiness or you could just call them and ask. And then if you want to hear more and read more about scaling up your business, we've got all kinds of free tools and shows like this every week. If you just go to scalingupbusiness.com like subscribe, download or do whatever you want there. And we love having you. I want to give special thanks to our original growth guru, Vern Harnish. Our show is produced by Niobaid and audio production is done by Podfly Productions. Audio editing for the show is done done by Albert Burge. And our show notes are compiled by Ein Codena with proofreading by Tim McGowan. If you got some value out of our show today, please share it with somebody else and let us know the parts that you love so we can keep bringing you more of that. Thanks again for listening and keep scaling up.

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