125: Matt Altman on People-First Business Always Wins

Are you thinking about how to grow your business with near and offshore staffing? But you're also wanting to make sure that it's reliable, cost effective and really well done. I think docsa talent is the way to go. Here's why. They don't just fill your jobs. They bring integrity, top talent and a people first approach that's hard to find. I've known the people at Doxa talent for over 20 years now and I say that you can count on them. I have. Talk to docs of talent and you won't be disappointed. Go to docsatant.com Bill G. Again, that's doxatant.com Bill G. One more time. Doxatalent.com Bill G. Check it out today. All right. We record this show as we head into the Thanksgiving holiday season. And I think there's no better time to consider the balance of humanity and business, of people versus profits and the unique opportunity of bringing those things into balance. This show is a kind of a case study. We're talking to an entrepreneur who's grown their business as a virtuous business, as an altruist, as not an altruistic but like a business, a for profit business. Nice growing business but, but one that balances these things and they're seeing some great results. So listen in and hear the opportunity for you and your business. Hello and welcome again to the Scaling Up Business podcast. I'm your host and scaling coach Bill Gallagher. So today's show is a case study in developing a company that balances people and profits. The humanity and business we have. On the show. With us today, Matt Altman. He's the co founder of a company called Sportique and he has a background in sports merchandise and well, I'll let him tell more of it. But he's grown a company pretty quickly, over 10 million and it's growing strongly now. He's got a great team and he's got a great story to tell in the world of conscious capitalism. Conscious capitalism, purpose centered companies, companies that balance people and profits. So welcome to show Matt.

Thank you, Bill. It's great to be on with you.

Yeah. And you're in the Phoenix area, right? Scottsdale, Phoenix, something like that?

Yeah, I'm in Phoenix, Arizona.

Awesome. How's your, how's your air quality there?

So I have to say, I was just about to say we're, I'm in sunny Phoenix, Arizona and gratefully today the air quality is great.

That's awesome. So Matt is a member of the EO Entrepreneurs organization that I've Been a member of for about 20 years and I work with EO Accelerator Program, our early stage company program in the Phoenix area for a while and my wife's family's all from Phoenix, so I get to Phoenix all the time. In fact, I'll be there towards the end of December. I think is our next day with the accelerator team there. But if the weather doesn't change here and improve our air qual in the Bay Area, we've got horrible smoke from these fires, then I may get there sooner just to hang out and find some fresh air.

Yeah, it'll be great to have you and catch up.

Yeah. So tell us a little bit about what leads you to create a company like this. Give us a little bit of your background before we get into the heart of your work.

Sure. So I started actually in professional sports, working in merchandising for the Phoenix Suns and Arizona Diamondbacks and had a 12 year career in that space of retail operations, design and sourcing and buying, you know, inventory management and things that things of that nature and really ultimately gravitated to the product side of the, of the business, namely apparel. And in 2005 really saw, you know, some white space and opportunity to really deliver better lifestyle apparel to what I would call the destination retail space. And my business partner at the time was in a similar phase in his career and we really got together and really wanted to embrace our entrepreneurial spirit and start the company Sportique.

So tell us about the early stage. How did the company go in the beginning? What did you set out to do? And take us through a little of the history of the company. How's it evolved?

Yeah, I mean it's evolved amazingly actually. Great word, evolve. That's been our theme this year, evolve. So it kind of hits home in terms of just how we're, we're in an evolutionary phase of the business in terms of how we're, how we're growing. But in the early stage it was, you know, just me and my business partner really working to get things off the ground and fortuitously was able to leverage relationships at the beginning to where we were able to get licensed with the NBA and also be able to land the Dave Matthews Band as clients. And so those were our two entry points into the, into the business. And it was, it was great. But it was funny because you have a 12 year career where you're director merchandise and you have a full team to where you start a business and now you're back at ground zero from handling all the data entry, packing boxes Getting things shipped, everything all in one, and to be able to then grow the team and grow and scale the company, it's been a great, great journey, I think. But from day one, there was always this notion of just if I'm gonna, if we're gonna have a business and have an environment, how do we want it to be? What's the world that we would want to live in? And for me, it's always. There was always the notion that at minimum that people and profits be on the same, same plane. That how we are treating people and how we're treating the company and the health of the company, they're all integrated. Because at the end of the day, it's people that are really driving the business and making the decisions day to day and things of that nature.

Why do you think that was important? You say right from the beginning you wanted to create a company that balanced people and profits, that took care of humanity as much as it was the business, that there's some balance that was important to there. Why do you think that is?

I think in my coming, going into the labor market and being exposed to the business I was in, but then also starting to observe and seeing how the world worked around business, it just seemed there was a lot of decisions and a lot of things made in the name of profit, but at the expense of people. And for me, it just, it didn't seem fair and I felt like there had to be a better way. It shouldn't always have to be about driving the stock price in the short term, but in the long term, you're not only hurting the people, you're also going to be hurting the company. And so it also instilled a long term mindset that it's a marathon, not a sprint, that yes, we want to grow and scale the company, but to really do it in stages, brick by brick, so to speak.

It's interesting, I think it's interesting for each of us to notice what sort of our early impressions were around that. Who helped us form that view? Did it come from, you know, a parent, a teacher, or even a negative experience? We saw something and we didn't want to be like that. We wanted to have a different thing. I would have to say that my parents were very idealistic. You could call them hippies, given the era. And there was a great deal of seeking of influences and things like that. And between the education and the social influence of the time, that was a big driver for me, this idea of harmony. Now I understand you also have encountered the formal version of Conscious capitalism as it's gone now. When did you, when were you introduced how to that and what shown up there?

Yeah, I was introduced to the conscious capitalism probably four or five years ago. And I didn't really pay too much attention to it at first because my first notion is that people are conscious really first and foremost, not an ideology as such as capitalism. But then I got invited to participate in the Conscious Capitalism CEO summit and it was just such an eye opening experience to be around like minded people who are really embracing conscious leadership, embracing purpose, you know, a higher purpose in their business, meaning there's, there's a reason their company exists greater than just to, to make money. And then I really started to understand also the positive impact that capitalism has had on the global scale. And just kind of anecdotally I'll share a story of someone that I met from Africa who basically said it was capitalism that got her village and her country out of violence and things of that and out of poverty.

Tell us about that. Where was that?

Who is that? So it was in Uganda. And also the same stories. If you look at how the Fair Trade Organization was founded, it was really founded under that notion that all the aid that was being given to these villages or to these, to these countries weren't making a difference. It wasn't, it wasn't, it was, it was enabling people more so than putting them in a position to really learn, grow and thrive in their, in their life. And, and if you kind of study what fair trade is doing, it's, I think it's, it's just a, it's a great thing because it's their whole notion of trade, not aid has made such a difference. And there's such a give back to the villages and to the community in terms of how they're reusing those resources to then build their economy, to build, rebuild schools, rebuild buildings and things of that nature. All from good Conscious capitalism versus, you know, aid.

Yeah, you may have also heard the term hand up versus handout. Right. Is another term that goes around it that speaks to the same kind of thing. Giving people an opportunity and not just, you know, feeding them for tomorrow. Teach them to fish in another world. Right, right. So, and then you went to Conscious Capitalism. How long ago was that? The conference?

It was two years ago. So I've now gone to two Conscious Capitalism CEO summits and now very integrated into Conscious Capitalism of Arizona. Sportik is a member of the Arizona chapter. And to me I feel like it's really coming back to just some smart common sense. Business practices in really how we look at humanity and take care of people, how we even look at how we operate our business and really thinking long term instead of short term. And that's actually a tenet for Sportik, is we really look at what are the decisions we're making today that's gonna help the company five years from now.

So let's talk about a couple things on that. Right. But before we do that, let me just remind our listeners that we did a whole on Conscious Capitalism in the past with Raj Sisodia. So Raj is a founder of Conscious Capitalism. And if you want to hear a little bit deeper on that, specifically, we're going to focus on your example here. But for our listeners, they may want to go find that other show, Conscious Capitalism with Raj Sisodia, and listen for more on this, if it's of interest on the formal nature of that movement, because he talks a great deal about the business benefits of it and the risk management. Right. So it. It removes. Reduces risk while improving financial results. Let's dive into your example because you shared some great things as we were getting ready for the show. And I think the. The first thing that I think would be really great. Before we talk about the values themselves, talk to me about the salesperson you hired that that didn't really fit your culture and the cost of that.

I think the biggest. One of the big things around Conscious Capitalism is culture, and culture is really around values and behaviors. And there was a point as we were growing the company, we wanted to enter into a new market segment. We wanted to get into more boutiques and more traditional retail outlets. And so in doing so, we really found somebody who was a high performer. He had years of experience, years of. Of working in that space and had a network of people to really get in and grow that space quickly and get in front of the right. The right decision makers. And so in the short term, we. That's what happened. The business grew. We saw revenue spike. But what was happening is this person was really not a good culture fit. And until you kind of live that and you see really what that difference is and how that. I've kind of used the analogy that if you have 10 people in a room and one person has the flu, those nine people cannot help that one person get better. But that one person with the flu could actually get all those nine other people sick. And so really kind of under. You understand that conceptually, but then when you kind of live it and then you like, wow, okay. And you have to make some of those Decisions then around people. But once we made that decision and we also made a pivot out of, out of traditional retail, it really flip the company very quickly into a much positive arena.

You know, I can just to come along. I have what feels like. I'm sure it was different, but it feels like the exact same thing. I'm a coach for a long time, but I've also been involved with six companies of my own. So had six companies of my own as CEO and then was a senior exec in two others. So I've been down this road a little bit but. And in one of my last businesses I hired a woman who was just a rock star kick ass performer. But I didn't notice at first where the culture fit was off. Right. It took a while before I noticed that. And then when I noticed it, I didn't make a change. I didn't let her go and, and, and replace that right away. I continued because the performance was so strong. Right. And my first clue that it was off were these like tense interactions where demands were made for things, you know, whether it be a business or a personal kind of thing. And it was like it was, it was not a natural fit. And, and yet I loved some aspects of the whole thing. Well, ultimately the problem was that the person who didn't fully share our values didn't embrace and fully share the values. And the history of the company was miss selling us. So was selling us under. Whether it was, whether it was false or just what they believed and held. You know, I don't know that it was done intentionally, but the market, the people that they had expanded us into, were expecting something different from us. And as a result those people soon became unhappy. You know, it took more than a year later, but they became unhappy. And especially as that salesperson eventually left and wasn't there to sort of assuage them, to make them feel better and like that, just to push them along further, they all left. And they left not and the business went down, but they left our, our business relationship with a bad taste in their mouth. And that spread bad will for us or bad rep, increased our bad reputation in the marketplace. So that person who didn't fit ended up doing real damage to the company.

Right?

Yeah. And I, you know, I let that happen because I hired them, I kept them there. I mean it's really ultimately my responsibility, not theirs.

Yeah. So two things come to mind in hearing, hearing your story and even me expressing mine. Well, one, the learning that you get from that. And so for me now as we've got a much more detailed hiring process, but we look, we are human and we've hired some people. But in day three, we super realized this was not a good culture fit and actually had to let that person go on day four. So understanding that learning was really helpful. But then hearing your story around how there was misalignment in a culture fit, but then how that translates to the customer. And so that's another big tenet for me around conscious capitalism, a stakeholder integration and that there's this whole ecosystem of owners, investors, employees, customers, supply chain and key vendors. And how is there balance and how are all of those being addressed in a proper way? And one can affect the other. Just like so where you've got poor culture not representing the company. Right. And how does that then affect the customer and the end user?

Yeah. So the other story I think that's relevant in your thing is the evolution of the values, in particular the can do value that you have. Can you talk to us a little bit about that?

Sure. One of our values is can do. And it really stemmed from an early stage of the business where we had an employee who got presented with a project from a customer and the first comment was, oh my God, I can't do that. We can't do that. And for me, can't is like the nails on a chalkboard. It was really painful to kind of hear that. And also coming from experience in my prior career of understanding what could be done in certain amounts of time, I had a relatively confident understanding of what could be done. But I just really asked the question. I said, okay, well if we can't do this, what can we do? And so it really kind of asked that person to kind of look at the situation and say, well, we can do this. I was like, okay, great, what else can we do? And we can do this. Great, let's tell them this. And so ultimately it got to the point where we actually could do what we thought we couldn't do. And so we've really, really have that embedded into, you know, into our culture and into our thinking. Because maybe there are things that just are, they're not going to be profitable or it's, it's doesn't fit in our process and things of that nature. But how can we look at something and say, okay, well what can we do? And let's have that attitude and keep, keep moving, you know, the river along, so to, so to speak. You know, a river doesn't go in a straight line. It's going to have it zigzags and. But we're going to continue to keep moving and evolving.

Do you have a purpose statement for.

The company to make people comfortable?

That's not a bad one for clothing, especially performance clothing. Right.

And it's. It's more so. And so it really goes back to people. I think fundamentally, every single human being on this planet wants to be happy and they want to feel good. And we're really wanting to answer that call around comfort and whether it's in the products that we make, which is first and foremost that our products have to feel good. The fabric has to be good to the touch, the fit and the feel have to be great. But how we are interacting with people, how we're interacting with our clients, how we're interacting and setting up our processes, all in the name of comfort. And so it's interesting because as we're growing, processes that worked before don't work today. And so there's discomfort. So then you got to. How do we evolve to get back to a more, you know, comfortable space that's sustainable?

So what, what are the big message? What are the things that you want to share with other entrepreneurs, either wanting to begin a more intentional culture of conscious capitalism or the balancing of people and profits, the humanity with the business? What is it that you would say to them as they begin this process or improve if they're already at work on this?

Well, I think if you're starting and if you have started and you haven't addressed your why, like, why does the company exist? And it's not just to make money. It needs to make money to be able to fuel your reason for existing. So understanding what is that? What is that why? What is that purpose, so to speak? And then really look to create intentional values and behaviors that you would like to see in your. In your environment. And so this is where conscious leadership really comes into play and really taking a look at self, at you as a human being and what you're wanting to create intentionally around your company and how that is going to affect the people that are touching your company, whether it's an investor, a finance or financial institution, to the customers and employees that you are going to bring on to your team.

Okay, good. So start with purpose first. Right. And then how about the culture?

Well, I'll speak from experience. For Sportique, I really looked at, and I'd say we as a group really looked at fundamental human needs that we all have. And I mentioned one is to be happy. And I think another thing that's fundamental for us as Humans is learning. We're here to learn. I don't think we can escape it. It's kind of built into our wiring, so to speak. And so how do we embrace learning in our environment? Especially if you're looking to scale up, you need to be able to embrace learning on some capacity and also understand that making mistakes and failure is part of the learning process. I think the other. The other component is really people want to be appreciated, fundamentally, people want to be recognized and they want to be heard and offering a platform where that can be happening. And ultimately, we want to be ourselves, we want to feel free, we want to be able to thrive. And so as best as we can, how do we create an environment that fosters that? And some days we're probably doing it better than others, but really allowing people to have a little bit of elbow room to be who they are and allow their gifts, talents and strengths to come out into their world.

What are the things that you do to then keep the values and the behavior in line? So how do you make sure that the values are not simply platitudes or things on your website or written on a break room wall?

So, great question. I think it's twofold. First, I have to look in the mirror and I have to be true to myself and am I living these values first and foremost for me and am I coming from the right place? Every day I step into sports, into Sportique, so I have to look at what am I actively doing with self first and then as a group, continuing to consistently communicate the message. And one of our core values and I think is teamwork. And that has been the cornerstone for us for the longest time, is we get it done with teamwork. That, yes, we, we are independent, we are independent, but we need community, we need teamwork. And it takes each person to really work together to get things done. And so we've done discussions with the team in terms of what does a good team member look like, what does good teamwork look like, how can we recognize it, how do we continue to foster that? And a lot of that has to do with just. Just having each other's back supporting one another. And I think that's been a really important thing at Sportigas. I think people know that we're looking out for what's best for the company, and we're looking out what's best for each other as such. So that's building trust. It's really understanding what our roles are, you know, having a mutual respect for. For one another. And I think the the executive team really embraces it and, and works with their team as such. And I think it's just a constant thing that you have to be working on every single day.

So we, I like to say from the Michael Jackson song, right, to work on the man in the mirror, the person in the mirror. Are you, do you also have any system of rewards and penalties? Are you doing any recognition for values, adherence and is there any penalty, Is it in the review process or anything like that where you evaluate upholding values?

Yeah. So great question because it's, it's actually timely you asked because I think the, the recognition portion, I think for me is, is an area for us to, to improve upon. We, we, we meet, we meet as a group monthly and in. So there is, there is record, there is recognition. I think there's, there's a lot that happens day to day with people complementing, you know, one another. But I think recognition is, is really important, especially around the realm of inclusivity and really creating an inclusive environment. And celebrating the wins, I think is another thing that we really look to talk about and it's really about how we celebrate our wins. How do we understand where we are in terms of our focus? But what's our challenge? What's the challenge that we're having? And how can we as a team help that person or team with the challenge that they're, they're having? Yeah.

So here's some points I think we're hearing just to underscore for our folks, for the listeners. Right. So if you want to begin to balance this, you want to first understand why the company exists in the first place. Right. And, and so that's establishing the company purpose. We've done more than a couple shows on that. We've also done recordings on YouTube about life purpose, about company purpose. So there's some work to there. And it's a very powerful thing in terms of engaging people to do their best work. It seems natural. Right. If you are clear about the why, that's the emotional driver behind the core of everything, it answers the ultimate question of why we exist distinct from simply making profits. Right. Of course we want to maximize profits. That shows that we're efficient, that we're running the business well, that we're doing that. And there's no problem in making a lot of money. And it's fundamental to fuel the growth. However, having a purpose, something that's even deeper and longer lasting than that, can get the best work out of people, can get partnership from our community, from our customers, from our Employees can help us attract and retain people. When that why is well articulated. The next piece that you talked about is establishing clear values. These are real values. The one you cited was can do. And that's very distinct from the values that sometimes we see thrown out, like teamwork, communication quality. Those are sort of throwaway, generic terms. And can do is more descriptive and evocative. But we want to see that that's really the way the company's operating. So you talked about alignment of behavior and values and that being a critical thing. So the values are not simply platitudes of things that we aspire to, but the way that we actually operate and what we true up to. And you're involved in making that a more proactive thing in your business over time. And then I heard throughout, like creating an intentional culture where you're thoughtfully designing a company that's reflective of and expressive of these purpose and values.

Right, Correct.

Did I. Is that. Did we leave anything out there? Oh, yeah. The. The aspect of ongoing learning, I think you spoke to also.

I think it's super important. Yeah.

Like noticing what worked and didn't work. Yeah.

I kind of want to touch upon something around purpose. I heard something last week. I had the opportunity to attend an exec Ed program at Harvard through EO and one of the things.

The entrepreneurial master's program.

No, this was a new program that EO put on at Harvard. It was around strategy. And there was a lot of. A lot of, A lot of learning around culture though, as. As well. And one of the things that that was. That kind of stood out was, was really shoot for. Around purpose. Like shoot for excellence. Shoot for. You know, and for me, I kind of resonated for us, like shoot for. For quality and shoot for purpose. And if you're shooting for money, you're never going to hit that target. But if you're shooting for excellence and everything that you're doing, the money is just going to follow. But if you're shooting for. For money, it's. You're not going to get. You're not going to get there. And the example that was. That was kind of given is, is back in the day, ships that would come in, if they were looking for the shore or looking for, you know, they would never get to it. The whole objective was though, to look for the lighthouse. So they focused on looking for the lighthouse, going towards the lighthouse. Then you would see, you know, the shore. And I think that's. That was a big takeaway. And I kind of look at it relative to purpose is, is really have that purpose, have those values, shoot for excellence, shoot for that area and the money will follow.

Well, that's probably a good place to end the show and a great reference to a couple related things. So first of all, we did a show with Tom Peters, whose name is synonymous with excellence. So go find Tom Peters, one of the all time great business gurus and so look for the Tom Peters show on let's be excellent. So there's that one and then there's the notion of, of developing purpose there and anchoring that and, and reaching for something extraordinary. I think that that's a powerful, powerful motivator for folks when you eng. And of course we've done some shows on that as well. So let's, let's remind folks that your company is Sportique. That's S P O R T I Q E. There's no U in there. And Matt Altman is co founder of the company and I want to thank you so much for being on the show. Of course we'll put Matt's name and the company name, the link in the show notes so you can find it right there if you want to go check out learn a little bit more about Matt and his company. Matt, thanks again so much for being on the show with us today and joining us. I want to remind also our listeners that we bring a show like this every week to you on the subject and all things related to scaling up and growing the company and developing yourself as a leader in the process of growing and scaling your business. So we're back here every week and if you'd like all of our, I don't know how many, 126 shows or something like that that we've you can find all of those at our website scalingcoach.com we've got those we and you can also subscribe. We'll send them out to you so you don't have to remember to go get them. You can find our podcast wherever you get podcasts and we've got that. We've also got a free downloads there of some of the tools and worksheets that we use in the scaling up process and you can get a copy of the book there while it's available. We'll give it to you for free if you pay the shipping and handling even. So go check out scalingcoach.com subscribe and connect there. Thanks again Matt for joining us today.

Thank you Bill. It's been a privilege and honor to be with you and talk about this.

I want to give special thanks to our original growth guru, Vern Harnish. Our show is produced by Shannon Amos, audio production by Podfly Productions with audio editing by Albert Burge. Our Our show notes are compiled by Ein Codena and proofreading is done by Tim McGowan. If you got some value out of our show today, please share it with somebody else that you think could benefit from us and send us a note to let us know the parts that you loved. You can just send that to info scalingcoach.com thanks again for listening and Keep Scaling up. Are you ready to turn your goals into daily wins? You should check out our Scoreboard software powered by Align. It's the official software for scaling up. With Scoreboard, you'll get an AI driven coach for priorities and KPIs and it'll help keep your team focused on what matters most. With Align, you can track your goals in real time and you'll even see results on the go. With their mobile app, you can rest easy knowing that Align has world class onboarding and support to set your team up for success. This is really more than just software, it's what I actually use to manage growth in our scaling up client teams. Unlock clarity and results with Scoreboard by Alignment. To try it now, go to aligntoday.com Bill G One more time aligntoday.com Bill G that's aligntoday.com Bill G Check it out and try it now.