126: Scott Duffy on Achieving Breakthroughs

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Well, to launch, scale and sell a business, you'll find many breakthroughs in response to many challenges. And today's show is all about those breakthroughs, how to achieve them on a regular basis, the aha moments that help us or that we discover on the journey to success. We're talking with an entrepreneur who's done a couple businesses of different size, been an entrepreneur, an intrapreneur, sold a company to. Richard Branson has grown some really interesting things and he's going to share things from his book Breakthroughs on the show. And I think you'll get a lot out of today's show. Listen in, Keep listening. Foreign. Hello and welcome again to the Scaling Up Business podcast. I'm your host and scaling coach, Bill Gallagher. On the show with me today is Scott Duffy. So Scott Duffy is a top keynote speaker. He's the author of Launch. He sold a company, Richard Branson. He's done some other great sales and exits. And I wanted to get him on the show today to talk about his latest book, which is all about breakthroughs and, and to talk about this whole system. So welcome to show Scott.

Hey, it's great to be here. Thank you for having me.

Yeah. So we're going to get into it a little bit. I always like to start our shows with a little bit of background on the listener, a little richer than the tombstone bullet points that we call out in an intro. But if you could tell a little bit about how did you become an entrepreneur? Was it your dad, was it a paper route? What was the thing that led you to this point where you've grown and sold some companies and now run around telling other people how to do it?

Oh my gosh. Well, okay, so I'm a, I'm a Southern California guy, grew up in la and I Went to college at the University of San Diego. And while I was there, I started my first business as a freshman in college doing something I never thought I'd do. I was a. I had a student painting franchise. And during the summer of my freshman year, I kind of started that first business. I had 14, 15 college kids that were painting houses down in San Diego. And I was one of those people that. I just loved the whole college experience. I had my own business, I played college sports, I was in a fraternity. I was really like, having the time of my life until everything changed for me. And it happened in a heartbeat. You see, when I went to school down in San Diego, we had this tradition where after midterm exams in the spring and the fall semesters, everyone would pile into their cars and we'd had nine hours south to San Felipe, Mexico, and we, like, partied up for two or three days. And when I was a fresh or when I was a junior in college, the fall of my junior year, I just happened to get done with my test early, and I was one of the first cars heading down to set things up. And I don't know if any of you or any of your listeners have ever been down to Baja, Mexico, but if you have, you'll know what I'm talking about. I was on one of these federal highways where there's one lane in each direction and there's like literally desert as far as you can see. And for some reason, you'll be going down this road and there's a drop from time to time on both sides. These like 10, 15 foot drops, and then just desert. And I don't know why, but what had happened was a truck, a garbage truck had gone off the side of the road. And we were cruising down, going like 90 miles an hour. And he didn't see us and he wanted to get back on, and we didn't see him, and he jumped on that road and we smacked this guy square on, going like 90 miles an hour. And it was the worst day of my life. And the question I always have for people is this, is that, you know, how many times have you been going down a road in your life? And maybe as a business owner, you're doing everything right. You know, maybe, you know, you had the perfect plan, you had the perfect team in place, you executed flawlessly. And then something kind of came out of nowhere and bam, it knocked you off course. And everything that you did up to that point, every call that you made, email that you wrote, presentation, like, everything you did, you had to throw out and start over. Well, that's exactly what happened to me. I mean, I thought that that day was the worst day, but getting better was actually harder. You see, I was in a situation where my arm, like, went through my head through the windshield. I had two brain hemorrhages. And when I got back to San Diego, I really couldn't do much of anything. I couldn't read, I couldn't write, I couldn't watch tv. Everything made me sick. I had to drop out of school. But while I was recovering, I picked up this habit, and it just stuck with me forever. I started listening to motivational books on tape. And literally what happened is one of my roommates came in. I lived with five guys in Mission Beach. And one of my roommates came in and he said, my dad thinks you should listen to this. And it was a tape by a guy named Dennis Waitley. And before you knew it, I started collecting all these other tapes. And so I was listening to people like Dennis Waitley and Tony Robbins and Les Brown and Zig Ziglar and Brian Tracy. And I don't even know how much I actually heard while I was recovering, because, honestly, just the pain, whatever. But somehow it all sunk in. And as I got better, I made a decision. And the decision was I wanted to get better, go back to college and work for one of these people that I felt helped to inspire me to heal as an intern. And the first person I worked. Applied to work for as an intern was Tony Robbins. And instead of an internship, I was offered this cool job. And so I never finished college. I was. He first hired me when I was 20. He was 30. It was a long time ago. And I started my career working for him and representing him in the US And Canada.

Hmm. So I get a picture of. From that, I think. I think all our listeners get that I've created of somebody who's going to forever be working on themselves and developing things. Then talk to us about the next business and the sale of the first one and give a little bit of that, because I think it goes into some of what's in the book, and then we'll talk about the book itself.

Yeah, sure. So, you know, I started with Tony in the training business, and. And, you know, eventually I just kind of burned out of it. Like, you know, all of us, you know, do from time to time.

Very high energy. Yeah, yeah. And the pace.

Yeah, the pace. I mean, it was really hard. I mean, that. That job, we would be on the road for 50 straight weeks, and we would speak up to seven days a week, five times a day. It was really hard. And. But between, you know, after I was done with training, you know, I was a young guy. I was in my early 20s, and I really had no idea what to do. And, you know, and so I. I got a job. I was actually working as a. Working at a bar called chillers at the 3rd Street Promenade in Santa Monica. And we made these, like, Slurpee, like, drink things and.

And wait, so you went from training to working in a bar, making. Making frozen drinks?

I did. I did. But they were good frozen drinks.

Sure.

I took pride in them, you know. So. So what? How so? I literally. I was really frustrated because I come from this experience. I had all this responsibility, and I didn't really want to travel like that, and I didn't want to do that anymore, but I could not figure out where to plug in. And, you know, I think that all of us go through this at some point in our life where maybe many times where we have, you know, we're certain, like, we have this energy. We have this enthusiasm. We know if someone will just give us a shot, we'll do a great job. But we stand. We can't figure it out, like, where to plug in. So that's where I was. And then this is how things changed. I got a call in December of 1994 from the same guy, the same roommate who gave me that first motivational tape. And he goes, hey, Scott. He goes, what are you doing these days? And I said, well, I'm not really doing anything. He said, great. We're gonna start a company. And I said, what kind of company? And he said, what does it matter? You're not doing anything. And so he said, we're gonna start an Internet company. Now, to give some perspective here, the Internet first became commercial around October of 1994. That's when Marc Andreessen launched Mosaic in Chicago. And basically what that means is that's when you can kind of start to see pictures and experience the World Wide Web the way we do today. So this is two months later. We started a company, and every single thing that we did was a complete disaster. Nothing worked. Nothing this, nothing that. But what happened? What happened is this. What happened was I was exposed to some really cool stuff that was going on at universities, like what the guys were doing at Stanford that became Yahoo. And the guys over at Carnegie MELLON that started AltaVista. And there was all this really cool stuff happening in San Francisco. So I'm like, I've got to get there because in life we gotta position ourselves. And so I wanted to move up there and work for one of these businesses. The problem is I didn't know anybody up there in any of these companies. So here's what I did. I went on what I call the couch tour. And the couch tour, right, is when you take your tips from chillers and the days you're not working, you go up and you just hop on your friends couches and you try and get a job, right? I did it for about 6 months. Completely ran out of money, completely ran out of couches. Everybody stopped calling me back up there. It was really frustrating. I remember one night I was sleeping in my car outside of a company called Oracle in Foster City in this dirt lot. I had no fricking place to go. And I got a call from somebody. I had a cell phone, I got a call and the person said it was a family member. And they said, we don't understand what you're doing and we think you should just scrap that thing, you know, like that drink, whatever, and we have a business and you should come down and you should do that. And so I had to make a decision. And we all go through this again in life, like way you decide will take you in one of two different directions. I decided to get in my car, drive back down to LA that night, which I did. Barely had any gas. I got there and here's what I did. I went into my apartment, I took everything that I had, put it in my trunk, and I went down to a pawn shop on 3rd street in Santa Monica, actually on 5th street in Santa Monica.

Pawned your stuff, Pawned everything.

I had a Rolex, I had this. I pawned my high school ring, my bracelet a girl would give me in high school, like all that stuff. Took the money, went back to the Bay Area the same day, and I had about 200 bucks left.

I think we call it doubling down.

It's doubling down a bad hand. And when you're young it's a little easier, right? You know, to do.

Yeah.

So I double down. I went to the Bay Area and when I was up there, I basically, the question is, what am I going to do? And the answer for me was I'm going to buy pizza. Because I think that everybody in a company, like somebody's going to like pizza. So I basically got these pizzas. I took my resume, I like smashed it in the cheese as much as I could because I figured that if somebody was hungry, if I delivered these pizzas to the places I wanted to get an interview and work. Somebody had to pull it out. Somebody did. And he called me. His name was Bill Peck. Bill is known as the father of Internet advertising. And he said, I don't know if I have a job today, but if I don't, I'll promise I'll find you one. And he did. And so to wrap that up, you know, that led to my first job. Quote.com we were the first, first company to get permission from the exchanges to put stock quotes on the world Wide web. And that sold to Lycos for $88 million. I was on the early stage team of SportsLine USA. We became CBS SportsLine today. CBSSports.com I was on the startup team of a company called Zoom. We did a deal with NBC to become NBC Internet. And then later on helped to launch with Ross Levinson foxsports.com so, you know, it's really funny because in life we have these highs and lows and ups and downs, but you don't know which is which until way down the line because you don't know what you'll make of the experience.

That's great. Talk to us a little bit about the book. So in this book, the book titles Breakthrough, right?

Yes.

And in your first book was Launch and you talked about getting a company up. And in this book you take from the launch and then you go through the scaling process and the exit process. Right?

Right, Correct.

So talk to us a little bit about that. Maybe tell us about the book and share the story about selling a business to Richard Branson.

Cool. So I think that, you know, the book itself, yeah, it's really all about how do you take your idea and once it's there, how do you grow it, scale it and position it for sale. And you know, the way I present kind of this step by step approach is around this idea of breakthroughs. So you know, to me what, you know, in life, in business, we have these, these like aha. Moments, right. There are these moments where, you know, a sense of wonder of how to do something all of a sudden clicks and combines with the knowledge of how to get it done. And I think that we have these moments and sometimes, you know, they're like puzzle pieces. Sometimes they don't make sense in the big picture. But eventually, if you assemble them in the right way, you have these big breakthroughs that really help to drive you forward. And that's the book is about. I take my experiences, my personal experiences as an entrepreneur and as an intrapreneur, and then those of the people that I interview for all the programs I do and media companies I work with. So whether it's a Gary Vaynerchuk or a Daymond John or Nicole Arbor or Sarah Blakely and share their aha moments that they've had around growing and scaling and launching companies. And that's really what the book is all about. And you know, you mentioned Richard. You know, there's always one story that stands out to me about Richard and how amazing he was. And it had to do with, you know, how big his thinking really was or is today. And for me, it all kind of became crystal clear the first time I was invited to his home on his island, Necker Island. I remember I was so excited to go and I was there for a Virgin CEO conference. And on that first night when it was time for dinner, they asked all of us to go down to the beach and to get into these little boats because we were going to go to the island next door that Bill, you and I have talked about that he just bought called Mosquito Island. Right. Because I guess if you own one island, you should own the one next door. Right?

Yeah, I was just, I was just there. It's very cool.

You were just there, so. Which is awesome. So we leave. We leave Necker and we head out to Mosquito. And it was so dark. I mean, you can attest to this because you were just there. It was just, you're way out there right in the ocean and it was so dark and there were no lights and there was literally nothing on the island at the time.

Yeah. Now there's quite a bit of construction going on, but yeah, yeah.

And so we cruise around the back side of the island and there we see it like they had set up, he had set up these tiki torches and this amazing barbecue on like this little strip of beach.

Bikini Beach.

Bikini Beach. So we get out of the boats and they had this buffet, grab my food, look for a place to sit. And I see Richard and he is, he's sitting cross legged on the beach with his. And he's on this phone call and he is so passionate, trying to buy something. And it seemed like everybody else around him knew what it was he was trying to buy, except for me. So when he got off the phone, I said, richard, I'm just curious, what is it that you're trying to buy? And he said, this. The rainforest. And I go, the rainforest, which one? And he said, the Amazon. Right. Because I guess if you're going to buy a rainforest, you should buy the biggest one.

Big one.

The big one. So, oh, man, it's like I instinctively.

The rainforest stretches across multiple countries, right? The Amazon does. So.

That's right. That's right.

But there is a way of speaking there that's. That's bold and audacious, right?

So I just remember saying. But I guess I thought, like, it just. It was instinctive. I just go, that's impossible. And rule number one, I've learned when being around people like Richard Branson or Tony Robbins or any of these great leaders is just like, never get in the way of possibility, right? And he looked at me dead in the eye and he said, scott, you want to learn how to buy a rainforest? I will teach you how to do it. He said this. He said, you know, whenever there's something that's big that we want to accomplish, where do we start? And the place you start is your why. Whatever it is that we do, if we want to make it great, it's going to be hard. And if we're not truly rooted into why we're doing it, when times are tough, it's just too easy to quit. And so we knew his why. He wanted to stop deforestation, and he wanted to protect the indigenous animals from being removed from the rainforest. So he said, okay, so now that we know my why, he said, how? How do we do it? And he said, if that's my why, he said, do we really have to buy and own the rainforest or could we just lease it? Now, for me, that was like a huge shift in, Like, I hadn't even thought about that. That was a huge shift in thinking. And he said, if we could lease it and you put me in a room with a willing seller, do you think I could negotiate a good deal? And I said, well, I'd bet on you. And he said, well, then, great. He said, here's the third thing. And he said, and this is where most people get stuck. He said, how are we going to finance it? And I remember the people that we were sitting with started to throw out names of all these billionaires and these very wealthy people in his circle, thinking that maybe that they would contribute. And Richard, he puts up his hand and he waves it and he goes, no, no. He goes, what if it doesn't matter if you gave a dollar or a dime? Effectively crowdsourcing buying the rainforest. And here's the point. I remember in, like, less than five minutes, buying the Amazon rainforest seemed easier than eating my bowl of soup. And what I learned in that moment is this. What I learned is that if you have the right mindset and you have the right people and you put the right resources around you, you could really achieve just about anything that you dream. And for me, that was a big lesson.

Yeah, he made something extraordinary, unbelievable, audacious, seem like there was a way, right?

He did. And in the same way that I went right to hard, he went right to what's the simplest way we could do this and like do it. And you know, it was an amazing lesson and a surreal moment.

Yeah, that's really great. I think there's so much that we hear again and again with tackling something, with bringing a fresh approach, coming at something from a different angle, taking on the really big thing. The other thing I hear that is in the background of that is just how everyone is engaged with the grand idea. And I'm reminded of the Daniel Burnham quote. It's one of my favorites. Daniel Burnham was this architect, city planner who did the city plan for the city of Chicago after the big fire there. And he created this grand plan that was realized over time. And he said, make no small plans for they have little power to stir the hearts of men today. You'd say people, right? But it's this idea that the big, and we hear it in the long term goal and the, the phrase that Jim Collins coined, the big hairy, audacious goal, the bhag. There's something about an extraordinary goal that just that lights people up. Like when Kennedy stood before the country and said we're going to go to the moon, not because it's easy, but because it's hard and we're going to do those kinds of things. And that's very cool, right? We get lit up by doing something extraordinary.

We do, we want to follow people like that. We want, we want to, we want to follow people that are inspiring. We want, you know, and, and for, you know, for people today, for entrepreneurs, for solopreneurs, whether it's working with your own in house team or, or even working with contractors, you know, making a point to inspire. When you're talking these people, right. As opposed to just getting down to the task, you know, helping to paint the big picture, you know, and show them really where they contribute or where they fit into helping to make that big, big picture happen. You know, people, people will do a much better job. Right. And they'll work harder for you if, if, if they, if they're inspired and they feel a part of something bigger, that's really great.

So you. We have time for another of the stories from the book Tell that other story that you were talking about as we were getting ready?

Well, we were talking earlier about, you know, some of the mistakes that entrepreneurs make. And, you know, I think the biggest mistake that entrepreneurs make is that they focus on too many things at once. And I call this hammers and nail syndrome. And here's what I mean. Let's say I gave you one hammer and one nail, and your job's simple. All you have to do is take that hammer and drive that nail into a piece of wood. Like really nail that one business. Now, the odds are you may miss the first time, you may miss the second, but eventually I'm going to bet on you. I'm going to bet that you're going to nail it. So let's say I give you two hammers and two nails. You got a problem. Who's going to hold the nails? Now, let's say you find somebody crazy enough to do it. Think about this. You have to hold both hammers, one in each hand, and you have to bring them back at the exact same time and strike at the same time. And the odds are you're going to miss the first, the second, the third time. You may never get it right. Let's say, give you 10 hammers and 10 nails. You get the point? So again, the biggest mistake that entrepreneurs make is they focus on everything at once. And what I say is this, don't focus on everything. Focus on one thing. And it doesn't need to be the hardest, it can be the simplest. If you're launching, you may call that like your minimum viable product. Like really nail that one thing and then move on to the next. The question is, how do you decide what's next? The answer is to ask. Ask your users. Ideally, ask your paying customers what it is that they're looking for and what they'll pay for and then go and take that to market.

Yeah. Feeling your way through what we'll actually do. Well, I hear a few things in what you've talked about so far. The first one is that you're going to have ups and downs, right? You had from your very earliest thing with a car wreck. And I can think of things that our clients have dealt with from a mental break with a key executive, from a family health emergency, from banking crisis, from a factory burning down, from a whole business flooding out. So environmental, financial, personal, mental health, health emergency, accidents, all kinds of things that will befall you, relationship issues of children, things like that. And you've gotta. It's not a sprint, right? It's not a. Like a One and done kind of thing. So you've got to take care of yourself over that long run. And then. And then I also hear a little bit about who surrounds who you're surrounded with, right? From the people on the beach who are all lit up and looking for ways to make something happen to the friend that knew you or special and kept calling you back to engage in businesses and sharing the training courses and things like that. And then I hear like, get something out there and then work on making it better.

Right, exactly. Get something out there, work on making it better. It doesn't need to be perfect, it shouldn't be perfect. It will never be perfect. I always say that if you're 85% of the way, get it out there, the time and the effort it's going to take to try to get to 100% isn't worth the feedback that you would get in the meantime from customers.

Talk to us a little bit about the exit then since we've covered getting to market and the beginning of the growth process. Talk to us a little bit about the exit.

Well, so I've been involved in a couple of companies from very early stage, kind of through ipo, I've been through sales, I've been through all that kind of stuff. And I think that one of the things I've learned is to plan your exit, have an exit strategy from the very beginning. And the reason is I believe that businesses are bought and not sold and they typically come out of having the highest valuations, come from deals where there was a relationship between the parties at some level. And so what I like to try and do is figure out in a business, you know, okay, if I were to sell this company. And by the way, lots of entrepreneurs when they start, think that they'll never sell, right? Hey, I want to do this thing forever. Well, even if you do, you know, there are a lot of different reasons that people sell companies. You may have to move, somebody may get sick, you might have to take care of a parent you need. You may run into a situation where you need liquidity. So this is important for everyone. And so what I like to try and do is understand, you know, who out there would be kind of the perfect buyer for my company. And then I kind of back out what they look at, you know. So for example, I look at what kind of products or services that I have or I can offer that may not be over overlapping, but could be complementary to what it is that they currently offer to their customer. I look at things like what kind of Metrics does that company use in order to measure success? Like what do they track internally? Because I should probably be tracking that stuff internally for my business as well. Right. So that I can be living up to, so that we're in sync. You know, I really focus on relationships. You know, I try and find it a very early, early stage. People who have the responsibility of purchasing companies, like the kind of company that I'd be starting for potential target acquirers down the road and over time getting to know those people. And I typically also try and figure out what kind of partnerships, what kind of deals, like what kind of business development thing could we do, me and the potential acquirer, at some point, my company's life cycle, that may get us acquainted. Right. Where there may become a relationship that builds. Right. Some really good operating history together that brings me closer. So one day, if I do want to sell again, I'm being bought, I don't have to sell to that person.

Yeah, totally get it. Totally, totally get it. Changing the dynamics of the whole thing and making it a natural outgrowth of the work that you've been doing is really what I hear, versus orchestrating a big marketing event and paying someone to pretty up your business.

Exactly. And by the way, when it comes to pretty up your business, I'm sure you'd agree, like, you know, an area that many entrepreneurs fall down, but it's so critical is keep your stuff organized. If you think you're going to sell or if you want to sell your business someday, you know, make sure that your books and that your records and all of that stuff is very organized. Because in the due diligence process, you know, nothing, you know, sparks fear in a potential acquirer than going into a company that does terrible record keeping. Right. It will drive down valuation. It will cost you more money in order to get a transaction done. It could put the transaction in jeopardy, like, have your stuff together.

Well, I think the same thing is true of the ownership of the company. If the ownership of the company is murky, weird, if the licensing and contracts are all screwy, if the books are weird, all of that can derail what might otherwise be a great sale. I think the thing that we see again and again is not that many companies are started with the intention to grow, to launch, grow and sell. They start in a confluence of accidents and opportune moments with the sort of person who doesn't want to work for anyone else, who wants to drive their own future. And then they evolve and they get lucky and they work really hard and they Survive for a while, and then they get to a place where they're thinking about exiting. Maybe it's that they've just turned 70 or had a change in circumstance, or they're going through forced and they're like, God, I want to sell this business. And suddenly they realize it was never designed to be easily sold. The contracts are weird, the relationships are off. There's weird owners that would be not cooperative with a sale. I mean, there's all kinds of funny things that can go on that we've seen. Right.

You just hit the nail on the head. Exactly.

Better to do that stuff early and think about it early and put yourself in a position. The nice byproduct of that is that the business is always cle. Clean. It's always much more fundable, even if you never sell it.

So that's true. I'll tell you, one of the best habits that I got into a while ago was, you know, I. I have a. I work with a bookkeeper that sends me a report every morning, and this costs, like, next to nothing. And every morning I see all of my accounts. I see how everything's performing. I see all the transactions from the day before so that I can go in and I can categorize them really easy or just make sure they're categorized correctly and write a note, whatever. This practice every day keeps me so on top of where the money is. Right. And how. And how we're doing, and it has a spillover effect in terms of me keeping all of my other records really clean as a result.

Yeah, you're organized.

Yeah. It just. It created the most amazing habit. And like I said, it's so easy. And. And once you get it right, you know, what tends to happen is entrepreneurs, particularly in their earlier stages, tend to be very sloppy around the record keeping their books and the records. And so sometimes it can take a while for you to clean everything up, but once you have it cleaned up and once you know what categories you're going to be putting stuff in, and once you've accounted for all of your prior transactions, the go forward is magical.

Well, we've covered an awful lot of material. I want to remind folks, the name of the book is Breakthroughs. Your first book was launched, but Breakthroughs is the book we're talking about now. Scott Duffy, thanks for coming on the show with us today. Thank you. And if you want to, of course, we'll put a link to all of that in the show notes, but you'll find Scott Duffy@ScottDuffy.com and you can get more info on Scott, his speaking and that kind of thing there. And as always we bring a new guest, a new show, a new topic every week to you, everything to do with scaling up and growing your business. You'll find all of our shows I think at this point126 now on our website@scalingcoach.com along with free worksheets and tools that you can use to get your business organized and scaling. Well you can get a copy of the book Scaling up right there and so anyway go to the thing, go to our website scalingcoach.com and get any and all the tools we can give you to help and look for one of the things. You can also subscribe right there and we'll send you a summary of these podcasts every week so you get a reminder and have got something to listen to on your workout or your commute that helps you think about the many challenges of growing and scaling a business. Scott, thanks again for joining us on the show.

Thanks. Thank you so much. It was great to be here.

I want to give special thanks to our original growth guru Verne Harnish. Our show is produced by Shannon Amos and audio production is done by Podfly Productions. Our audio editing is by Albert Burge and our show notes are compiled by Ein Codena with proofreading by Tim McGowan. If you got some value out of our show today, please share it with somebody else. Pass it along and let us know what parts you loved with an email to info scalingcoach.com thanks again for listening and keep scaling up.

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