136: Ron Lovett — Remove Mid-Level Management Through Task Mapping.

Are you thinking about how to grow your business with near and offshore staffing, but you're also wanting to make sure that it's reliable, cost effective and really well done? I think docsa talent is the way to go. Here's why. They don't just fill your jobs. They bring integrity, top talent, and a people first approach that's hard to find. I've known the people at Doxa talent for over 20 years now and I say that you can count on them. I have. Talk to Docs of Talent and you won't be disappointed. Go to docsatant.com Bill G Again, that's doxatallent.com Bill G One more time. Doxatalent.com Bill G Check it out today. Well, I think a common dilemma that we face as business leaders is trying to figure out how to get more engagement from everyone on the team and how to get more passion engagement from the front line. So how do you get more from every level and how do you get more from the front line? And then do you really need all of that middle management that you have? Is there a way to make it flatter, more responsive, more agile organization? That's what today's show is all about. How do we how do we accomplish an outrageous level of empowerment and use some of the tools that we're already using in the world of Scaling up Listening? If you've been listening to our podcast or you've read the book Scaling up, you might be interested in our workshop on the Scaling Up Growth framework for your own business. We've got a workshop coming up soon to San Francisco and we have a few hundred dollars discounts for our podcast listeners while supplies last. Just go to scalingcoach.com and find our next workshop right under Scaling Up Programs in the top menu and then enter Sup for Scaling Up Podcast during the checkout. We'll see you there. Hello and welcome again to the Scaling Up Business Podcast. I'm your host and scaling up coach Bill Gallagher. On the show with me today is an entrepreneur turned thought leader. I'm not sure which order that comes in right. Like we start something, we do something, we get obsessed with a particular idea. But anyway, on this show is a guy named Ron Lovett who's got a book. So he grew a business, he sold it for a pretty awesome multiple in the security business and he got pretty passionate about eliminating or reducing the need for middle management. Empower people. And that's what our show is all about today. Ron is from the east coast of Canada, but he's today in on vacation, still in Florida. And he's also a member of the entrepreneurs organization. We met through the world of scaling up. Ron, welcome to the show.

Thanks, Bill. Thanks for having me.

So another day in sunny Florida before you head back to cold Canada.

You got it. Yeah. I don't even know what the temperature is today. 2122. But you know, I'm not a Florida guy. I don't like golf and I don't like the beach. So I just stay inside the air conditioning waiting to go home to my cold igloo.

That's interesting. Why do you actually go to Florida?

Well, to stay married, Bill. My wife loves it here.

Yeah, totally, totally get that. So we all got to do different things and find the way, Right? So give us a little background. Talk to us about your entrepreneurial journey. How did you become. Talk to us about growing and selling the business and I think that'll eventually lead us to the topic.

Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, as you mentioned, born and raised in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Grew up in Halifax to a single mother and have a sister that's two years older than me. And you know, probably you've heard this a million times, but a rocky start. You know, my mom was traveling a lot to make ends meet and I got into lots of trouble in an early age, got in trouble in school and trouble with law. I was just a bit of a badass, just looking for the right path. And so, you know, I was. But always, always what I'll call a hustler. You know, I had three paper routes. I would, I would, I would stock stores that would have the scratch and win tickets, and I would literally check a hundred scratch and win tickets to make sure people didn't. Didn't make any mistakes. And sure enough, I'd win the odd $20. So I would do anything to make a buck. Sometimes I would come to the U.S. buy hats, bring them home, sell them in junior high. So I just always had that hustler mentality. Cut all the guys hair in my neighborhood. $5 a haircut. You'd come into my attic at my mom's house and I'd cut your hair. So I just, I feel like it was always in my DNA.

Solano. Yeah, but you sell it to somebody like making wigs.

I wish I was that smart back then. And then I got into. Which is now legal in Canada, but I got in the marijuana business and I was hanging on the wrong crowds and got involved in that business. That was my first.

Not today. It's the marijuana Cannabis industry. But back then you were a drug dealer, right?

That's right. Back then I was a drug dealer. Today I'd be a thought leader in the cannabis industry. Yes. But, yeah, so that was my first, I'll be honest, trial at business. And it really was a business for me. You know, I had customers and I had to market my product and compete with other individuals and, and have systems and processes and make sure I could collect my cash on time. And. And that was my first business or trial of business. And so. So, you know, I. I did struggle through high school. I found out later in life that I have, you know, ADHD and I'm dyslexic. So that answered a lot of questions for me. But I didn't find out until my mid-30s. I'm 39 now. But, you know, every year in high school, I would fail two courses, have to do summer school. Once I finished high school, I looked, you know, asked the question, what's next? And I had two or three jobs. I was dishwashing, selling popcorn at the local stadium. I worked at the ymca, so I had three jobs and was still hustling and selling pot on the side. And then I decided to travel. So, you know, back then, my sister was backpacking. She put a backpack on and went to Europe. And I thought, how the hell could you just put a backpack on and go to a country and you don't know anybody and speak the language? And that stuck with me so much that I essentially had to go do the same thing. So I did my first backpack trip a year after I met my father, I met my real father. So when I was born, my name was not Ron Lovett, it was Ron Francis Poe iii, named after Ron Poe, my father, who funny enough is from Florida and he's named after his father, Ronald Francis Poe, the first. And so I met my father in Florida for the first time because my parents had separated when I was about three months old. And so I met him in Florida, in Orlando, actually. And my brother Poe, he was. He was Poe. Ron Poe. My mom remarried a gentleman by the name of Lovett. So my actual family name is Connolly is my mom's maiden name. Irish. So anyway, met him, didn't have a great experience with the guy, so I didn't necessarily keep in touch and then started to backpack. And I did my first trip in South Africa and then went to Australia and then just kept backpacking. I did try university, took a course and a half, and I just really didn't enjoy it and continued backpacking and then came back. Long story short, but in 2002 I came back from a three month trip in Colombia and I was training Brazilian Jiu Jitsu at the time under the Gracies, under Renzo and Hoist Gracie. I would go to New York and train in Henzo Gracie's studio. And I thought, you know, I'm going to be a bodyguard, that's what I'll do. And I want to get out of the pot business. At the time I was looking online and sure enough, you know, you don't know what you don't know, but in Halifax, Nova Scotia, there's not a great career to be a bodyguard. But at the time I had a good name running nightclubs. I was running four or five bars. Just, you know, essentially I was hired as a guy who could take care of myself and keep my friends out, which were a benefit to the bar owners. And so I decided to start a company called Source Security in 2002 doing nightclub security in Halifax. So that was my real first legal business that I started. And so yeah, we started doing bars and then, you know, we kind of, I blinked my eyes and within two or three years we had 18 bars in Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island. Started to expand into the event concert business. And within four years we had 350 staff do an 85,000 person concert at the Rolling Stones outdoor concert. So we just grew, we exploded and we're doing projects that we had no business doing. Essentially. I was able to talk my way into some interesting contracts and then we started to get into the bodyguard work. My first gig was with Ringo Starr for a month at the Casinorama in Ontario where I work with him on the Ringo Star tour. And then, yeah, so things started to go from there. And then we did get into the kind of regular private security guarding contracts, you know, the uniform guard service at malls, construction sites. And I don't know how much you know about the security business, but it's a really tired industry. There's really been zero innovation in there. And so, you know, I had met a Gazelles coach actually in a guy named Andy Biting, who you may know.

Yeah. Know Andy very well.

Right. So Andy was our Gazelle's coach and look, that was instrumental turning the company around, actually building systems and processes and bringing on our daily huddles and brand promise Scorecard and, and coming up with our purpose and our values. It was awesome. I mean, really solidified, built a strong foundation. And once our culture was right, it just turns out that that wasn't enough for Us, we just still weren't getting ahead and we had to really throw some Hail Marys and be very unorthodox. And I'll talk more about that later. How we kind of turned the company around, but essentially we just continued to grow. Once we had figured out some very interesting HR practices and really got our frontline staff aligned, were able to tap into really that untapped potential of the frontliner, the company blew, blew up. I mean, we had 1500 staff across Canada. We grew by 60% last year. And then I did sell two years ago to a company out of California and had a great exit. And you know, it's been almost two years now that I sold and got two kids and things are going great.

So let's talk about this. So first let's just anchor this thing. This immature, maybe bumming around the world pot dealer starts to dabble in the security business, encounters the rock habits, gets a Gazelle's coach and takes it to 1500. Was the peak?

Yeah, 1500 staff.

1500 staff right across the country, across Canada, and eventually selling out at a very premium multiple to a US based company.

Correct?

Yeah. Before 40.

Yeah, yeah.

Two years ago.

37.

And the growth. So we've got the scaling up framework, your Gazelle's coach. But then you've also got this thing that you see about empowering frontline employees. And the book is outrageous Empowerment. Talk to us a little bit about what it is that you see there about empowering and engaging that Frontline.

Yeah, look, it just became obvious to me. I mean, you know, I remember reading books like nuts Southwest Airlines and thinking, there's no effing way this is true. And you know, I always remember walking through an airport in New York. I'd never flown Southwest and I didn't buy into the whole culture thing. And I went up to a young guy at the counter and said, look, I had like five pages left in the book and wasn't, wasn't buying it. I went to this young guy and I said, look, do you like the company you work for? And the guy looks at me, says, what? I said, do you like the company you work for? And he says, dude, I don't know if you're looking for a job, but this is the best goddamn company work for on the planet. I was like, oh my God, I need to find. He did, like, do something here. This is crazy. So I had a lot of work to do. And I know, you know, because your.

Notion before then was that people hate their company.

Yeah, people hate their company. And in my business, it's military style. Lots of bureaucracy, hierarchy. And that was the business. You know, you had these ex military, ex police folks joining, saying, here's how the business is run. It's always been run, and here's how it should be run. And anytime you had any type of profits, you hired a more expensive mid or senior manager that would eat it up and start becoming a firefighter. And I just knew, look, I went through a tough time in 2011 where we lost a million dollars. And, you know, and I think I heard you say on your. You were Vern on the last podcast, unfortunately, entrepreneurs, we wait until you're smelling rock bottom before you really go back to the drawing board and innovate. And that happened to me. I'll never let it happen again. But it did happen to me. And the real question for me, Bill, that pivoted things from a model perspective was, what if I had to recreate this industry? What if I had to start the private security industry today, going through each stakeholder and their top five challenges? And that's a great exercise to go through. And can I do that and still be profitable?

Right.

Yeah. And so, you know, I mentioned before, our culture. Our culture was excellent. We had lineups of people in any level that wanted to work for us. That wasn't the problem. But I'll tell you, my first aha moment once we got our culture right, and was the story about this young lady named Carolyn. And so what happened, Bill, was she worked for my company. She was in accounting. And I had heard through the grapevine that she was looking for a new job now she was an A player. And I couldn't quite understand why the hell an A player who I knew loved the business was looking for a job. And so I took her out for lunch and I said, carolyn, what's the deal? And she said, look, Ron, I love the company. I love the purpose of changing the industry. I love the big hairy ideas, goal of converting frontline employees into passionate stakeholders. I love our values, but I don't love what I do. And it just smacked me in the face. And I thought, oh, my God, we're only halfway there. We're only halfway there if culturally we were screening properly, onboarding and, you know, we top grade. But. But from a task perspective, this person doesn't love what they do. They're just doing it because for the love of the company. This is death by a thousand cuts.

And was she good at it?

She was great. Yeah, she was good. Yeah. So it hides and she's good at it, and she's looking for a new job because she doesn't love that. And so we created this process, Bill, called task mapping, where I literally wrote out every head, the staff write out every task in the company in buckets. Hr, finance. And then who was responsible for that task? And did they like it or hate it? There was no in between. Did they love it or hate it? And who also was a secondary person that knew how to do the task, did they love or hate it, and who want to learn about which task? So I just did it with a small group at the office, and it was so clear to me that we were misaligned operationally and from a task perspective. So, you know, I went out. There was this young lady at the time, her name was Divinia, and she was really struggling in the company. And I went up for lunch with her and I said, divinia, how'd you find that exercise? She said, oh, you know, it was interesting. And I said, yeah, but it's obvious why you're struggling. You hate everything that you do here. And she said, well, you know, I love this company so much. I said, yeah, but you hate your job. You don't like what you do, of course you're struggling. And so what we start, we started with just the group at the office, and then we called it insourcing. Bill. What we did is I made individuals that owned tasks that they didn't like. If there was nobody in the office to trade off with that either wanted to learn or also knew how to do the task and enjoy the task, they had to find a frontline staffer and tap into them for that task. And that's when things really started to change. We started to really align this organization because people that had tasks they didn't like, they either found someone within arm's length or they went to the front lines and would find security guards to do these tasks. And, you know, it was chunky out of the gates, but we really started to hum along once we tapped into, you know, that, you know, think of all the untapped potential of 1500 security guards. Some were accountants from India that couldn't get an accounting, they couldn't transfer their designation. And all of a sudden there are security guard pressing a button that has way more to give. And so that process, we started to just pick off all kinds of tasks. You know, like you. You think of something like the company newsletter. I had tasked Bill, my assistant, every HR director, HR managers, operations, could get that done on time, on Target and done properly because nobody liked it. And then all of a sudden, when we went through this process, I had a security guard, a frontline, you know, pay by the hour, bill by the hour, security guard that loved that type of thing. And so a young lady named Stephanie that worked at one of the community campuses in Halifax, she said, I'll do that. We paid her $50 a month when the task was done on time, on target. So we measured how it went out and we started to push down tasks. We had probably, I don't know, 60 plus guards focused on single tasks from, you know, dealing with our health plan benefits, reconciling our bank accounts, just things that, that were taking up people's day to day that didn't add a lot of value to the company. We really pushed that stuff. And, and look, it was challenging, Bill. People fought me tooth and nail on it and said, this is just so unorthodox. You're out of your mind.

It's really interesting. So we see. So there's a variety of tools our listeners will have heard about or have worked with that we've worked with other coaches and so on. So let me point to a couple of those right now. One of them is the Love and Loathe exercise, which is very much. It sounds like what part of what you did, which is what do you love to do? What do you hate to do? But it also sounds like, like you identified stuff that did you identify things that weren't being covered, but you, you pulled all the tasks out as independent of whether or not somebody loved to do them or not. Right.

Well, they, they would still have to essentially tag every task, Love or hate, call it. They had to do that.

So we broke every inventory, the tasks, and then I tag them love or hate. And some tasks are addressed by more than one person, right?

Correct. But someone's accountable at this point for the most part.

And so you end up with a whole map of these tasks and some they can trade amongst themselves. So we're talking about business, the corporate staff here, right?

Yeah. And they did.

So they can swap some things around themselves, but then there are some that just nobody wants to do. And for that you go to the.

Front line, you find we would go to the front line or we would outsource. But yes, you're absolutely right.

Now, did you end up with weird sorts of job descriptions where. Well, I don't do that and I do that and it doesn't align and then I can't hire a replacement?

Well, you know, task mapping became the job description. So all of a sudden, people became the CEO of a task. So, I. E. This young lady who was paid $12 an hour, essentially in my mind was the CEO of the newsletter. She ran it. And what we would do is say we would kind of build a bit of a, you know, an expected outcome sheet where we'd say, okay, here's the task, it's a newsletter. Here's the expected outcome, and here's how it's measured. So we would add those two things and then, boom, we're off to the races. That that newsletter goes out on the first of the month and she sent her compensation for it.

But if, but if. So if that woman moves on, right, then you don't go looking for a security guard newsletter person. You look for those two things independently.

Yeah, correct. Correct. That's right. We would kind of farm that one task out again. That's correct.

So you deal with it in a granular way instead of in a holistic way between things. So people have sort of multiple things they do, and then is their pay grouped with that? Are you paying them additionally for that particular task? Are they doing that during their regular security guard hours or.

Yeah, so that was a little messy for us. We started off changing people's pay rates, but, you know, look, they hit overtime, so it cost us more money. It was really messy and clunky that way. And then we said, why don't we do it? Pay for play. Why don't we? If someone hits a home run, we'll pay them. And that way they're paid as a contractor. It still gets taxed. So they're paid on their paycheck, I should say. But in contractor style, you know, the job's done, it's finished. Here's your. Here's your funds.

But so you give task based pay for.

Correct. 100% task based pay. That's right. The month of April was reconciled. Things bounce. Boom, there's your $150. But back to your point, though, look, let's just say that we had somebody leave the organization who was an accountant or HR staff, we would absolutely be able to go to market through task mapping and know exactly what we were looking for. So it made things crystal clear. And then if someone was coming on that met most of those criteria, we would farm out some of those other tasks. I mean, it just really became the backbone of the organization.

Very interesting. And it seems like at first it might be a little bit awkward to manage, but then it might get more elegant over time. Now, what Experience have you had bringing this into other companies?

Yeah. So Mike, you know, when I sold the business, it became really obvious kind of what I should do next. It's creating a company whose purpose was to turn our clients frontline staff into passionate stakeholders. It was obvious that's what we needed to do. And so with Conley Owens, which is my company, we wrote the book, launched the company. That's exactly what we're doing, Bill. So we're working with companies now implementing this same methodology and working with some really tough and challenging industries. So we're into fast food in Canada, industries that the frontliners have been left behind. And I do want to make mention too over. Another benefit to all this was once my mid level management was removed, I was able to pay my frontliners more. I mean I had such competitive advantage over my competitors because I could pay more because I was removing our mid level management. And I mean I shut offices down and did a number of other things, but it really change my entire business.

So how does the task mapping help you to remove some layers of middle management?

Yeah, that's a good question. You know, essentially our process through going through that, a lot of people did not buy into that. So they kind of said look, you know the challenges of task mapping, the number one challenge is people are not honest about that process. So people kind of see the writing on the wall. So let's just say folks that say, wow, I don't like what I do here. And there's really, I love the company but there's nothing that I really enjoy doing. So it was easy to have those people, we had honest conversations and they were removed. And in most cases those were ops people that all they did was firefight all day long. And so once we had them, once we had really honest conversations, it just became very apparent that they didn't like their day to day. And then other folks could make it through Bill, because even if they could be honest, they could not let go of those tasks. They just kind of said look, that's just my DNA says to hold on to this stuff for dear life so that I'm valued in this organization. They couldn't let go. And the other thing that I think it pointed out and allowed us to continue to remove mid level management is with each task we kind of do that. The three key things do we so say we farmed it out or insource it to a guard. We would. And they would fail. And look at sometimes that did happen and we would kind of say okay, do we have the tools? Did we give them the proper tools? Do we have a system or process to follow or checklist and did we coach them on it? So it allowed us to really clean up everything in the company. And once we had systems and processes and tools to support everything and coach people on it, we just didn't need the mid level management. We just started clearing them out. So we removed 14, you know, operations managers that were comp. Between 40 and 65,000. That was a huge, you know, and that was a big bottleneck for our company. These people just were firefighters 24, 7.

So folks get empowered at the base level. People get aligned to things that they really love to do. They let go of things that they maybe shouldn't be doing. And the business starts to shift, right?

Oh, yeah, big shift. Yeah.

So if that's the work you're doing with Connolly Owens now, how's that going with other.

Yep, really well. I mean, obviously there's a change of the guard. So we have. The challenge that we've been faced with is, you know, we'll go into a restaurant that has a, you know, front of house and back of house, supervisors that are well capable of the job and a manager that really is just getting in the staff's way, putting out fires. But it's been that way for, you know, five, 10, 15 years. And so the writing's on the wall. A lot of times we can't convert those folks to coaches. They don't want to let go, they don't enjoy change. And so the owners are removing that layer and essentially empowering the front lines through task mapping. We go right into the entire organization and they're able to do the same things, pay a little more, redeploy some of that budget, engage people into the company's purpose now into the company's value system, engage them in different tasks that are suited to their skills. And as you can imagine, that really reduces turnover.

Yeah. The other thing I hear in the background, let me make sure I hear this correctly because I think it's something that I talk to senior managers a lot. As we are scaling up the business, we're looking at scaling their leadership style, their approach to leading others. If they're a person who puts out fires a lot, then what I always say is that they're holding or they're relating to the team as incapable and they're keeping the team from developing themselves. If they shift to become from a firefighter to being a coach, where they are using in particular the values to say, okay, well, how do you think you should handle the situation and what ideas do you have and which of our values is relevant here? And they are resisting the urge to just jump in there and solve the problem for people. They end up developing a stronger team, stronger, more capable people who don't need a real written policy or procedure for every single thing. Right.

Look, that's exactly what happened with us. So you're bang on from my experience.

Yeah, so. Yeah.

And so. So the book is really that story. The book is the story of that entire journey, you know, from Falling on my Face. And when I wrote the book, I, you know, I didn't want it to be a talk at you business book. I wanted to be in the spirit of Shoe Dog and Southwest and One Hell of a Ride, Craig Dobbin, who you may not have heard of from Newfoundland and those books. I was just glued page to page, I thought I need to do that. You know, it's got to be a story. It's got to sou someone sitting with me in the living room.

Yeah. Where you really develop it and expand it. Are you working just with Canadian companies now or are you working all over?

So it's a newer company, but we are working with U.S. and Canadian companies. Nothing out of North America right now. So we're just putting a board together, a really strong advisory board which is just coming together and we've got some of the top HR people from the best companies on the planet, the ones that we all look up to from an HR perspective. We've got a rocking advisory board coming together. So I'm really excited and I think that's going to really help us in our growth in North America.

Right. Well, we see this in a number of companies now that are beginning to do this where they're beginning to pull out the hierarchical nature and push down the empowerment. We hear it in Stanley McChrystal's book Team of Teams where he talks about using a daily huddle and rules of engagement to remove the whole review and approval process on special ops. So the tempo of special ops could start to keep up with the global threat that they were dealing with. We hear it in, we see it in companies like Brozart where they're deploying community based nursing things, but they're not having layers and layers of managers organizing these people. They have self organizing teams who take care of stuff and support each other. And we see it with some of our clients where they're beginning to think about having specialists who support folks and answer questions and that kind of thing. And they're referring to each other. Rather than just having bosses who resolve every, every issue for someone, they're doing it across groups and cross functions. Right?

Yeah, totally. You know that old thing, if you whisper around a circle and you've got six people in a circle and that story never comes out the same. Well, imagine that with your company's goals and purpose of why you exist and all the key elements of your business. I mean, it's just, it's a disaster. And I think that it's a, a huge opportunity for companies to realign, get rid of bottlenecks and gain margin.

Yeah. So the beginning of it is the expansion really of the love and loathe exercise you may have heard of before.

Right.

Having each of your people say everything that you do and then whether it falls in love or loathe, a hard and fast decision as to which column it falls into. And then starting to look for either swapping those amongst each other or g them out to other parts of the organization or even outsourcing them and focusing on and having people only do what they're really passionate about and skilled at. Right?

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's more challenging for startup businesses. I mean, if you're well capitalized, then I would suggest outsourcing those tasks. But you know, you know, it's very tough at a startup phase. But mature companies that have untapped resources of human capital, it is a beautiful process and you can really tap into the front lines and get them involved in a much larger activity than their day to day button pushing or ringing in an order, whatever that is.

Well, even as you probably start to get over 20 employees, you're seeing opportunities to give things to people who you didn't think of, who would be interested, who'd like to grow and contribute something outside of the norm there. And you've got people who are doing things that they really, really hate doing that they maybe should not be doing. And sometimes as you point out, there are people and there's really nothing that they love doing.

That's it.

They hang on to it for dear life to keep a job. Right.

So that I wrote a LinkedIn article a little while back saying that cultural alignment is only half the battle. And that really hit home for me that if you don't have cult, if you get cultural and task alignment, you are on fire.

Yeah, yeah. Well, so I'm going to put a link to some of this stuff for you. So we've got people who love the culture, but now we want to figure out and have them do the things that they love they really are willing to pour themselves into. Ron Lovett is the guest. The book is Outrageous Empowerment. You can begin to read about that and begin to explore that with your team. Once again, we're here every week with a new guest talking about some aspect of scaling up, scaling your business, scaling your leadership style in the process or along with it. So you'll find us each week wherever you get your favorite podcast location, itunes, stitcher, things like that, or@scalingcoach.com, where we also have articles and posts and of course all the show notes for this but free downloads of our tools. You can get a copy of the book there, the Scaling It Book and so on. So go to scalingcoach.com and if this is valuable for you in some way, please let us know what parts you loved and send a copy to somebody else. Thanks again Ron for joining us on the show today.

Thanks Bill. Thanks for having me. It's a blast.

Don't forget to register now for our next workshop on scaling and to get one of the limited $100 discounts for our podcast listeners while supplies last. Just go to scalingcoach.com and find the workshop registration right under Scaling Up Programs in the top menu and then enter the code SUP for Scaling Up Podcast during the checkout process. We'll see you there. I want to give special thanks to the original growth guru Verne Harnish, creator of the Scaling Up Framework, and to our show producer Crystal Carson. Audio production is by Podfly Productions with audio editing by Albert Burge. Our show notes are compiled by Ayn Codena with proofreading by Tim McGowan. If you got some value out of our show today, please share it with somebody else. Let us know the parts that you love with an email to bill scalingcoach.com thanks again for listening and keep scaling up. Are you ready to turn your goals into daily wins? You should check out our Scoreboard software. Powered by Align, it's the official software for Scaling up. With Scoreboard, you'll get an AI driven coach for priorities and KPIs and it'll help keep your team focused on what matters most. With Align, you can track your goals in real time and you'll even see results on the go. With their mobile app, you can rest easy knowing that Align has world class onboarding and support to set your team up for success. This is really more than just software, it's what I actually use to manage growth in our Scaling up client teams unlock clarity and results with scoreboard by a of lot. To try it now, go to aligntoday.com Bill G. One more time. Aligntoday.com Bill G. That's aligntoday.com Bill G. Check it out and try it now.