178: Jeff Harris — The Hunger for Greatness

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You'Re not also developing yourself. This is like a terrific story from an experienced scale up implementer or on his journey of hardship. And whether you're dealing with something significant right now or just the everyday challenges of life, this guest's story of dealing with his own challenges and applying Scaling up is really relevant. The biggest mistake that we see CEOs making again and again is not working on the person in the mirror. And the problem is that we often don't realize there's anything to work on there. We think it's all outside, but in fact it all starts with you. Good news, bad news. Listen in. Terrific, riveting show. I think you'll dig it. Hello and welcome again to the Scaling Up Business Podcast. I'm your host and scaling coach, Bill Gallagher. On the show with me today is one of our longtime listeners and a scaling exec, somebody who's faithfully learned and applied the tools, is a lifelong learner to to share with us his story of how he's applied them. And I think we'll all get quite a bit from this. So welcome to the show, Jeff.

Hey, thanks Bill. It's a pleasure to be here.

So Jeff, guys, Jeff is interim CEO for a SaaS business and he's done a number of interim exec positions, has a background in management consulting. He's a dad of three, married, lives in Colorado Springs, but works for this company that's actually based in New Zealand. And why he would do that and how he's managed to not only survive but thrive is kind of what we're all about. So, so glad to have you on the show.

No, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you, Bill.

So talk to us about before we get into the more dramatic parts of your story. Give a little background. Right. Talk to us about, like, who you before everything changed and your life and where'd you come from like that.

Yeah, where I came from. I grew up in a small farm town outside of St. Louis and I have a twin brother. And we were the. Actually the first kids in our family to even go to college. I joined the Marine Corps out of. I went to college for about a year, studied computer programming, knew I wanted to go see the world. Did all that, came back and I was like, after four years in the Marine Corps, I'm like, yeah, I'm definitely going back to school. That was fun. I want to get a job that, you know, I get paid to use my brain and sit in the desk and not sleep in the dirt. So back to school and got my degrees in biomedical engineering and mathematics. I did pre med because I really had a dream about being a doctor. But I fell in love with engineering and problem solving and ended up. I was applying to grad school and got a call from a life science organization in Colorado Springs for a sales position, which I knew nothing about. But the idea of living in Colorado and taking a break from school just pulled me. So I jumped on it, got the job, ended up staying with the organization, which was based out of Sydney, Australia and New Zealand. Found for over a decade and moved up through the ranks, product management, ended up becoming chief learning officer, director of sales enablement, took over sales operations. And then eventually I was, you know, I was looking to get out and do something else. I wanted to get into management consulting. And I get a call from a med device company in Texas and we started chatting. And eventually that led to an offer to take over as chief Business development officer and also look after the strategy execution and leadership development of the company. And that's actually where I came across scaling Up. It was around the time I'd worked with Frank Franklin Covey for a number of years doing lots of their programs and various leadership companies. And I came across scaling up. And I was like, oh, okay, the four decisions. This is straightforward strategy, execution, people and cash. And really went to town with that and started with assessing the talent, looking at the cash flows and looking at the strategy and really just turned the company around. And it was just a fantastic experience. I came in with no reports, which is always fantastic. Within a month, though, I had sales, marketing, customer success, the OEM division, everybody reporting to me. So that makes it more challenging when you're in the fish tank and have that. But I also Live in Colorado. So I was commuting remote every couple of weeks down to Texas, which made it really fun because I was always kind of outside the fish tank and had a different perspective on the business. And yeah, so we went through the Scaling up methodology, which was a lot of fun. Took everybody off site and we did a lot of leadership development to start a lot of, A lot of workshops on strategy, implementing execution, best practices, really optimizing cash flow. And then we did things like Strengths Finder, which I've been a coach for, and all of that stuff. I just went ahead and did myself, which was fantastic. And now the company is doing great. Actually. I talked to the CEO the other day. He's like, it's almost boring. It's like everything's turnkey and we just make money. And it's like, well, that's fantastic. Why don't you bring me back and then we'll push out of your comfort zone some more. But yeah, it takes a while to get that way as you know. And scaling up was a big part of it. And it was pretty neat too. We used Salesforce and so I built, instead of using like a line or another software, we just built custom objects in Salesforce to integrate the one page strategic plan and all of our KPIs and metrics. And it was really cool, a lot of fun. But yeah, the company's doing great now. And then I ended up leaving because I wanted to get into management consulting. And I had always. My focus was always really in sales and marketing effectiveness and so went to work with Sales Benchmark Index, who actually had implemented Scaling up before I got there. So instead of being the coach and advisor of the system, I was working in the system, which was also a nice break to see how another organization uses it. And that wasn't my focus there. My focus was obviously consulting clients. But very quickly, late last year, I noticed I had a bit of a health issue with swallowing food. And this is kind of what has led us to where we are today. And so around Thanksgiving, I started to notice I had a problem. And throughout December I was traveling.

I think a lot of us feel like we have a problem with Thanksgiving, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I noticed I had some issues swallowing. And then I noticed I had more of an issue really when I would try to lay down and go to sleep and. And I just, I thought I had like gurge or something. I was constantly, you know, choking and regurgitating and I just couldn't sleep. And then when I go to eat food, it was really, really hard to swallow. I would drink, like, a gallon of water, you know, just to eat some small meal, and it just hurt. So I made some calls, and doctors were like, yeah, we'll get you in at the end of January. So I just keep trucking along. And then a few days before Christmas, I developed this cough. And this cough is just intense. And I work out pretty much every day, like, doing CrossFit and running. And so I'm still trying to do that. Meanwhile, I live in Colorado Springs at 7,000ft, so it's hard to breathe anyways. And this cough just keeps going. And I notice I'm not taking on really any food. It's hard to take on liquids. My throat hurts. And Christmas morning, I get up, kids do the gifts, and I just collapse on the floor. I'm just exhausted because I haven't slept in, like a month. I haven't had any food. I'm dehydrated. So I go to the hospital, which is conveniently located two miles away, and I spent a day there. Doctors are trying to figure out what's going on with me. They think I might have a clot in my heart. So they run all these tests, and they're like, actually, your heart is. You know, you're in great shape. And they're like, but what we've noticed is you have pneumonia. And we can't figure out why you have this pneumonia and nothing else going on. And so they ran more tests, and they ended up discovering that my esophagus had been. Was clogged. It had distended to four times its original size, and fluids were draining into my lungs and drowning me, actually killing me. And they told me, they're like, in another 48 hours, you would have been dead if you hadn't come in here. And they said, the only reason why you're probably going to walk out of this hospital in the next week is because you're fit. You exercise. And it just stopped me in my tracks, and I'm like, okay, so what do I do? So for Christmas, Santa Claus brought me an NG tube and a lot of tests, and I had all this stuff stuck in me, and it was uncomfortable. I spent a week in the hospital, and finally a specialist come in, and I'm like, the case study doctors are standing around talking to me, and literally, like, I'm checked out of life now. And I'm like, hey, guys, I'm. I'm still here. I'm in the trenches. You know, I'm not out of the fight. And I Actually have worked in the medical Device community for 15 years. I'd like to be in on this conversation. You know, it's. And so that was. That was awkward. And we go home and. And they say, you know, Mr. Harris, you're going to be on a liquid diet while your esophagus heals. It's. It's, you know, it's. It's really damaged. We have to run some tests for cancer and all this stuff. So it's going to be a few weeks before you can have any food. So I'm thinking, oh, okay, weeks. I can do that. It's Christmas time, it's hard, everybody's eating, and I'm drinking boost and Ensure, and that's terrible, but hey, it could be worse. It could be dead. So go check up with my doctor. And they run more tests. Andand my doctor tells me, my GI specialist says, well, Jeff, you have a disease called esophageal achalasia. And I'm like, okay, what does that mean? She goes, essentially, nobody knows why this disease happens, but it affects about 1 in 100,000 people. And the peristalsis, the muscles and neurons of your esophagus have stopped working. And along with that, so you no longer push food down to your stomach. You have to rely on gravity. But the big problem is it also causes a stricture. The muscles of the lower esophagus. It causes them to tighten up. Think of like a titration device or a funnel. And so when you eat food, the food goes down, but it can't get past this little area. And so we have to do surgery to cut those muscles to loosen them up. And then you would rely on gravity. And I'm like. So I'm just taking all this in, like, okay, I've never had a health issue. What is going on? And the doctor tells me it's gonna probably be about three more months, lots of tests, and you're gonna have to live on liquids for three more months. She said, you know, it might be six months to a year before you have a steak again. And I'm already hungry because I've been going for a few weeks. And so this is devastating news for me. I mean, we spend our lives eating food, right? So we go home and I spend a couple weeks and I lose 30 pounds really rapidly because I'm living on boost and insurance. Like, how do you do this, folks? There's no manual for this disease. I mean, you go to the doctor, there's no pamphlet. Hey, this is what you got. You Know, this is how you do it. And so run test, get surgery scheduled for late April, actually April 17th I believe it was. And meanwhile, I talked to my firm as sales benchmark index and just let them know. It's like, look, I got to take care of me. I can't be traveling around and I'm going to have to have this surgery. It's going to take months to recover all this stuff. I'd like to just take a leave of absence from the firm and if possible, you know, come back when I get my health right. And so we agreed to that, which was fantastic. You know, great organization. And I didn't want to be a hindrance to the company because I knew then it's like I wasn't taking on the right food. I lost a lot of strength. I went from doing hundreds of push ups and running every day to barely being able to do like 10 push ups and walking up the steps was winding me and trying to walk around the subdivision. I was just so weak and my mind just wasn't working. I wasn't getting nutrients. And my wife would tell me, she's like, you're like half the person. It's like, I ask you a question and you stare into the darkness. And I was like, yeah, I have nothing. And so I took a leave of absence and it spent some time just at home trying to figure out, okay, well what do I do? I mean, this is a real shocker. It's like everybody has a strategy until they get punched in the face, right? And I literally got punched in the throat and it's like, well, what do we do? And so I start, you know, I'm into analytics and I track everything in business. You know, I'm always looking at the data get the facts or the facts get you. So I start doing a regression analysis of all the food I'm intaking while all the liquids and trying to figure out how do I optimize my nutrition. And I get a call from a company, Track plus in New Zealand, and they do geolocation tracking for aircraft and things like that. And got to talking to the CEO who I'd worked with in the past and told him what was going on. He was just shocked. And he's like, what are you doing right now? I was like, I'm just taking a few months off. You know, I'm trying to get myself together and you know, I'm trying to pull myself out of the darkness, out of the weeds here and figure out how to live with this thing. I can't Travel or anything. So we got to chatting, and, you know, they had some things, some challenges in their organization. He's like, well, could you help? And it's like, well, I'm going to. I can't help from. You know, there's only so much I can do for my house. And so we chatted through it, and it's a smaller firm, and. And so we came up with an idea to serve as interim chief revenue officer just for my house, and be able to lead Change, you know, just via Zoom, and came up with different project work streams. And as you know, you go into a company, you diagnose and prescribe. So we did. Did some diagnosis, you know, from here at my house, and said, okay, well, this is where you are. This is the medicine I prescribe. It's like, yeah, well, let's do this for a few months. And we knew it was gonna be a short engagement, and so I did that. And then meanwhile, I started just serving as executive coach and advisor to former colleagues and executives. And some of them were paid, some of them were not. But my thing was, well, if I. If I can. You know, it's like, if I can pour into other people, at least I'm doing something positive right now. Meanwhile, this disease, I'm trying to figure it out, and. And I have three kids, and my whole thing was, well, I don't want to see that. I don't want him see dad like, go down into this negative state of complaining and all this other stuff. And, you know, and I'm not a victim. I was. I was in the military. I was in the Marine Corps. And the whole thing, you know, it's just like, walk it off. And then my wife was. You know, she's like, how do I help you through this? And I was like, challenge me. I was like, if you see me complaining, you see me, you know, getting down. It's just like, you know, tell me to lock it up, tell me to deal with it is kind of what we say to our kids sometimes. And so I started reading a lot, you know, just trying to feed the good wolf inside, to really build my mindset. And I started writing a lot about this disease and really learning about what it takes, you know, to overcome these challenges, these obstacles. And, you know, it all comes down to one of the things I would always teach, you know, when it comes to the leadership, is we got to lead ourselves first. Obviously, you got to put on your own oxygen mask before you help others. And when I look at this disease and I started connecting with People around the world who have this, and folks are lost. And I was looking for leadership as well. I'm looking for answers. And more and more I looked, more people just kind of give up on life because have you ever been to the grocery store when you can't eat food and you haven't ate for months? It feels like you're in this prison and the walls are closing in on you. And the first time I went, you know, I was like, I'm gonna flip out. I'm gonna lose it. And then I realized I was like, well, we only grow when we're outside of our comfort zone, right? And so I came home, got some, you know, got a few groceries. And to my wife, I was like, you know, I'm gonna go back tomorrow. She's like, why? And I was like, because it was so uncomfortable. I have to be able to get through this. I have to be able to function like a human being. So I kept going, and eventually, you know, it's like, oh, no big deal. But then I went for a while where the family is always eating meals, and I couldn't be in the house. And so my mantra was walk it off. Whenever there was breakfast, I would just go out for a walk. Whenever there was lunch or dinner, I would come up and say, hey, everybody, enjoy the meal. I'm going to go for a walk. Because the smell of food is this intoxicating combination of hope and hell when you can't eat and you're living on protein shakes, and it's like that stuff. That's great. And I've learned choice is a function of awareness, right? It's like, eventually I've learned that there's a lot of really amazing smoothies and, you know, all these organic kind of supplements and whole food meals that you can blend up and drink. And it has to be smooth, like water for me. And it. It still takes, like, to me for me to drink a protein shake could take anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes, just because I'm relying on gravity. And so instead of sitting there and saying, oh, poor me, you know, it's immediately like, you got to change your focus to what's the opportunity here? And you have to have the growth mindset, you know, and like Karen Carol Dweck's book mindset, which I read years ago when it first came out, and it always stuck with me. It's like, okay, growth mindset. It's like, I'm not stuck here. I'm in this valley. How do I lead myself out of it? And More importantly, how do I lead others? And so we get close to the time for surgery and I'm getting into a better state. I'm getting my strength back. I'm starting to work out a lot and, and run and ride my bike and stuff like that. And I get a letter from insurance saying, hey, this disease is so rare, we're actually not going to cover this surgery. And I'm like, okay, well, what's going on?

You're not going to cover F you, man.

Yeah, yeah, well, and, and that's what I thought. I was like, okay. And the letter went on to state, it's like, well, you've had no recurring health issues since, you know, you're in the hospital. And my wife's like, so you're being punished for being extremely disciplined human being. And I'm like, okay. So as anybody would do, it's like I kind of lose, lose it for a little bit that day. I go and kind of thrash myself in a workout. And I come back and I realized, I told my wife, I was like, look, I've been focusing on the short game. I was like, I was focused on, hey, I'm going to get through this. I'll have this, you know, surgery in April. I'll be eating food like within two to three weeks afterwards. And I was focused on my own success. And I go, but what I realized is I have to focus on the long term and I got to take my mind off the end game and really focus on the process. And that happens in business as well. It's like, yep, you have your bhag, you have your, your annual initiatives and everything, but it's really fallen in love with the methodically boring process. And I went back to things like I was taught over the years, like, good to great. The Stockdale paradox, you know, it's. You have to face, confront reality, face the brutal facts every day, but you never lose infinite hope. And as you remember, you know, James Stockdale, who is a prisoner of war in Vietnam, and he talks about it in good to great, which is fantastic, is a lot prisoners would, who didn't make it, they would be focused on the short term game, like, oh, we're going to be home by Christmas. I'm going to be home by my anniversary. I'm going to be home by the fourth of July. And those dates will come and go because at the end of the day, it's like you have to face the reality of where you are and just go through the process day in and day out. Yes, there's hope out there. And so that's what I had to switch my mindset to do. And I looked at this disease as an opportunity to climb this mountain, but try to set an example. And I told my wife a few weeks after that, I said, here's the question I wrote down. I was like, what if the story I'm living is intended to serve as somebody else's survival guide? And she's like, whoa. She's like, well, that's powerful. I was like, well, it's scary. I was like, it's kind of like this. This new personal bhag for me because I've never climbed this thing. Nobody has, really, you know, And. And so I was like, what if, you know, instead of getting to the top of the mountain, and I have this surgery and I get to go and eating, and we have a happy life? That's great. We're successful. I go, what if we can open up more doors, raise awareness? So, you know, we actually add some significance and show people what can be done. And one of the questions, you know, you always have to ask yourself, and I ask myself this as a leader all the time, is, would you follow you? You know, and I look at this particular disease, and it's like, am I setting an example for myself and for others to lead myself through this? And so since I spent a lot of time with folks, I've connected with them who just essentially give up, because this disease can impact anybody. And I've met a lot of folks my age. I'm 45 years old. It often hits people later in life, and I have to be pretty healthy at the time and also have a mindset to where it's like, oh, wait, we can do this. And so I've went on. The doctors originally told me, said, jeff, you shouldn't be working because it's going to be really hard on you to focus on work and do all this other stuff. So I did. I stepped away from my job, and now I've went on to serve various interim roles advising multiple companies. And I'm serving as a CEO for a company in New Zealand, and I've never even been to the company, and I'm going there for the next three weeks. And doctors also said, jeff, you shouldn't travel because traveling is gonna be so difficult. You're gonna get to an airport, you'd be surrounded by all this food, and you're gonna flip out and eat, and then your esophagus will clog, and you'll get aspiration pneumonia, and you might die. This time, and I believed him. And my first trip, which I went in on in late April, I went to San Diego, Sacramento, Houston, New Orleans. I was advising company, and I just wanted to get out and really meet customers and explore the market and assess the sales reps and stuff like that. And I lived in San Diego. I was stationed in the Marine Corps up at Pendleton. So it's like my home away from home. I get out there, and sure enough, I get to the airport, and I'm like, okay, this is hard. And then I get to San Diego, and you're surrounded by food and all these smells and none of these memories come in. It's like, oh, this is my favorite restaurant. I want to go here. And I start to lose it. And I'm walking. I'm walking down the street, and I see this store, and I look in, and there's some toys in the window. And I see this puzzle box, and I'm looking at it, and I was like, you know, I just got to remember what, you know, as a kid, and even with my kids now, it's like, we buy a puzzle, it might be 500 to 1,000 pieces. We trust the puzzle maker is going to have all the pieces in there. And so I called my wife, and I was like, I have to trust that all the puzzle pieces are going to fit. I was like, I made it this far. I can make it further. And sure enough, you know, it's like, next thing, I walk around the corner, and there's a Smoothie King, and then there's. Then there's a Jamba Juice. And I'm like, okay, I can do this. And I'm traveling, and I share my story with some of the folks I'm traveling with, and, you know, and they actually live on my diet for the next week. And they're like, wow, this is terrible. But it was really cool. And I was like, yeah, welcome to my world. Yeah, this is terrible. And so. And so I did that, and I got out of my comfort zone. And so then I went on a few more trips, and it was fine. And then my wife and I, we went up to Seattle about a month ago. She works for Salesforce, and she oversees all marketing on automation implementation for Amazon. So I was like, I'll go up with you. I was like, I just want to get out of the house and get out of my comfort zone. And, you know, I'll work remote, and then we'll go up to Olympic national park on the weekend. And she's like, well, what are you gonna do about food. You're gonna bring a bunch of stuff. I was like, I'm not gonna bring anything. I was like, I'm gonna trust. We'll figure it out. And sure enough, there were smoothie places, but then we go to restaurants and there's chowders and we tell them my story. And you know, chefs would be really nice to blend everything up into something smooth and, and it was fantastic. So, yeah, so that was that, that really worked out and, and we were very thankful and blessed and, and so we come back and, and we're still battling insurance, you know, on, and we're making a lot of headway. The key thing is though, we believe that what has happened so far with what we're doing is going to really open the doors for other folks with this particular disease. And my goal is to really help people to realize that. It's like, don't be a victim of your circumstances. It's like you have to rise to the occasion and we can choose to do that or not. And the other thing doctors told me was, Jeff, you're not going to be able to train anymore until you have this surgery. And by the way, recovery is months and you shouldn't train because you won't get the right nutrition. I've lost 40 pounds. I wasn't overweight then. I was 190 pounds of pretty much solid muscle. I trained pretty hard. And CrossFit, I'm a lot smaller person now. But I've started doing triathlons and I never trained for a triathlon. I got up one morning and have a pool here where we live and swam 1500 meters, jumped on my bike and rode 25 miles and then jumped off and ran six miles. And I was like, like, well that feels good. And my wife's like, when was the last time you ever did any training like that? I was like, like 20 years ago. But it turns out, Bill, when you only put rocket fuel in your system, as in, you know, really nutrient dense, you know, plant based smoothies and protein shakes and stuff like this, your body responds in a way that is unknown. And I have an energy level that I've never had probably since I was 18 and, and I feel fantastic. And so I went on to, you know, advance my career when I was told I couldn't because you can't eat food and you can't work out. And it's like, oh, okay. Well, by the way, I actually do triathlons now. Last week I took a day off work and went climbing in the mountains. Did a 14er and, and I've learned, you know, how to travel on just juices and things like that. It's not fun. But here's the thing about life and business, about, you know, truly achieving the next level to be great is falling in love with the methodically boring. And how do we do that? You know, when it comes to business and like scaling up, the methodically boring is that discipline, cadence of the daily huddle, monthly quarterly meetings, you know, quarterly business reviews, annual meetings, things like that, to maintain the focus and alignment, things of that nature. And it's kind of like, you know, it's, it's like the slight edge in life. It's like, you know, if you go, you know, have a burger or something, which, hey, that'd be awesome to have a burger someday again, it's, you know, you have McDonald's, it's not going to impact you. But if you do that every day for months, you're going to have a pretty negative side effects. And same thing with this disease. You know, it's like our life in general. It's like, it's what you're willing to do every day. It's about discipline, it's about being a creature of habit and saying, okay, I can do this. I'm going to get up, I'm going to take care of myself, I'm going to leave myself first. I'm going to inflate my own balloon so that I can inflate others. And I know that like with this disease, it can be really, really challenging and you have to sever those emotions. And with leadership, as you know, it comes down. Leading yourself is about leading yourself physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. And when you take something off the table like, hey, you can't eat food anymore, it takes things to another level. And you really have to connect with your, the spiritual side because the physical side effects, obviously it's like that that's going to happen. But the emotional side, a mental impact is truly a challenge. But I feel like I've reached a new baseline as far as my comfort Z and what I'm willing to do. And we had some former colleagues over from a company I worked with years ago. Earlier this week, my wife and I and everybody wanted to hear the story, which my wife has heard forever. She just considers this is life now, this is normal. But other folks hear it and they're like, oh my gosh, I can't imagine. And I have a twin brother. And one thing about resilience is the ability. You know, it's about the Ability to bounce back and also, you know, be able to laugh kind of, you know, you're walking through the valley of the shadow of death and be able to laugh at some of the things that are happening. And so I have a twin brother, and he's quite sarcastic. And so for the first three months that I, you know, I learned I had this disease. And I'm struggling. He knows I'm struggling. Every day he would take a picture of every meal he had, and he would send it to me and be like, check this out. I made this steak, by the way. I made two. I'm gonna have one for you, buddy. And it actually made me laugh, though, and I needed that to get through it. And then he came out and visited for a week. Eventually, he's like, oh, I want to live on this diet. You know, you're. You're all caught up. You're all cut up. You look like a superhero. You know, you look so fit it. I'm gonna do this for a week. He did it for a few days, and he's like, this is the most terrible thing I've ever experienced. I'm having a pizza. I was like, as you should. As you should. So. So, yeah. And. And to me, it's like, you know, when it comes to, you know, this disease or anything and just business in general, it's like, you have to grow through what you're going through. And I hear a lot of people say, oh, Jeff, I'm so sorry you gotta go through that. I'm like, I'm not going through anything. You know, I don't look at this as a fixed mindset. As in, I'm broken and I'm helpless. I'm like. I go back to my. The Marine Corps, and it's like our motto in there was, improvise, adapt, and overcome. And I look at it as I'm growing and I'm healing, and every day I'm on a hunt for the person I've yet to become. And the reason why, it's like, my kind of my purpose is maximizing leadership potential, really eliciting to leadership potential and others to inspire them to achieve their optimal performance. And you can't take other people where you haven't been. And when it comes to a business things, it's like, what do you always fall back on with your strategy, your core ideology, your core values, your core purpose? And so when all of this happened, I had to dig back down deep, and it's like, revisit, like, you and your values, and I've heard you talk about them. It's like, I have mine and one of them is never finish you. It's like you have to intentionally evolve daily to be the best version of you. And you have to become this discipline required to be uncomfortable and do what others are not willing to do. And another value I have is lead and inspire. And that means setting the example that elevates standards. And so I ask myself, am I setting the example that elevates the standard of other people who suffer from this particular disease? And most importantly, it's like, are you being the leader that you would follow? And then, of course, it's just being extraordinary. Striving for greatness every single day is really, really key. It's like trying to go that extra mile to achieve your true potential in life and just not giving up. And so I don't look at it as going through anything. It's like, you know, business growth starts with leadership growth. And every team organization is only as effective as its leadership. And so you have to be about, intentional about raising your leadership lid every single day. And often we got to embrace, you know, these storms of life and business as often, you know, it's like, because the only thing really standing between us and our greatest potential is the price we're willing to pay. And we always have to have that growth mindset. Again. What's the opportunity?

So I think when I hear something like this, and I would imagine some of our listeners are, the first thought that I have is, all right, well, let me. This is interesting, and I'm going to file this away for when I have some big drama in my life because I don't have any right now. And I think that the problem with that is that you, you miss the opportunity. So for sure, if I go through the exact same or similar experience, I could draw some lesson from this and take that to heart and so on, perhaps. But the thing that we see each and every day with all of us is, I think, also applicable. And that's that at least in our world, everybody wants to grow their company some amount. Like there's a general interest in growth among our listenership, which is fine if you're not. That you're probably not listening. If you're listening, you're probably interested in that. So we take that as the foundation. But we don't always look around and go, you know what? I have exactly the company I deserve. Or said another way, I deserve the company I have this company that you've created or helped grow or help to lead or whatever. Is a perfect match for your present level of leadership. So you evolved it, it created. And if you're struggling anyway, if it's not growing like you'd like all of that, the good news, bad news is it's your fault. So you can look in the mirror and you know who to go to work on. Where it all begins is with you. And even if you're not the ult leader, founder, CEO of the business, the part that you control is an expression of you and you are connected to that ultimate leader. But you can't deal with them and you can't deal with. You can deal with yourself. That's the good news part of it is you can actually alter you right? And I heard also in your world, two things I think are really interesting. One of them is you found the reason to motivate, like to be an example to you've got young kids, you think about the people. So there's something around us that would have us rise up and be more than we might otherwise be inclined to be. There's some part of us that's comfortable, that's complacent, likes whatever we like, Whether it's your killer home theater or a car or some other toy or we all have the comfort zone, the place, the things that we enjoy and so on. And that doesn't lead. I mean, they're enjoyable, but they're not satisfying and something else that taps into that thing. So you talked about the people around you, your wife, your kids. And I hear in that, like finding something that motivates you to rise up and deal with yourself. One of my values, as you noted, is never finished. And I have this picture of Jack Lalanne that I look at and think about and it's the idea of like, what is there to do? So I look for unusual and uncomfortable experiences. I look for boundary pushing things or new domains to explore and develop myself. And that's just part of the way I operate. And I'm frequently uncomfortable. I did a workshop a couple months ago that I was like, wow, I'd rather just strip naked right now in front of everyone to do what they're asking me to do. That would be way more comfortable than this, what's about to happen. But I like went ahead and did it and the next and it was not comfortable. It was really uncomfortable and awkward and all that. And I was fully clothed. But by the end of it, and then the next day I noticed huge impacts from the experience. I'm like, wow, I feel way more freer and empowered and Able to do some new things than I did the day before. So I like did that and I took that on when a former business nearly collapsed. A bank tried to shut me down. I was totally ready to give up. I was like, fine, let's get out of here because I can start something new. And I was focused on my strategy for the next thing and not this thing. And it wasn't until my wife said like, you did like, what's the lesson you want to give your kids? What's the example? And they were very, very young at the time, so I knew they wouldn't remember it very literally. But they do have it in their bo. We as a family, and I as their dad are people who look at the shit that life throws at us and we step up and do something about it. Like we don't just run away for sure in moment by moment. I'm totally human. I avoid and procrastinate on all kinds of little things and I have my ups and downs about whatever, but the meaty things, there's growth and opportunity in this, right, to do that and that. I did triathlons for years. I stopped and my eating didn't really change, so I've gained back some weight. But for like 10 years I did 45 endurance events, most of which were triathlons, a few marathons, century bikes, long swims, things like that that I threw in and I would do four plus a year. It was awesome, right? And really great, lit me up. But I remember the first time that I went out to swim and I had, you know, I knew the basics of swimming, that kind of thing. I grew up near the ocean. I surfed, I did. But like proper, competitive, effective swimming. I was very, very weak at. So safe in many ways and, but not very effective. So I'm like, okay, now I need to learn to swim in the ocean and like, you know, do mile to 1 to 3 mile swimsuit. There I am. It's, you know, I've been late at work. I really should be, should have gotten there earlier. It's not dark, it's drizzly. It's not yet the warm season and I need to do this swim and I feel like maybe I should just come back on another day and get an earlier start at this thing. I'm alone. I'm going to swim in the bay in San Francisco by myself. It's just after dark, it's kind of drizzly with that foggy drizzle that we get on a regular basis. Like, what am I doing? And I just Wanted to quit. It's icy cold, too. And I'm not yet. At that time, I wasn't accustomed to swimming in that environment, so everything about it was horrible, uncomfortable, and even a little frightening. And I imagined quitting. And then I. And that seemed really like a great idea, except I thought about, what am I going to say to people? People like, I've got to explain this. And then the thing that immediately presented itself is, what would I tell people if I did swim right now? And then I realized, oh, I have my total motivation. We all have to invent our own motivation, moment by moment. Our inspiration, motivation, whatever it is. And in this case, it was bragging rights. Exactly. Yeah. The more miserable the situation is, the better I can tell a story tomorrow. And the opportunity to create a great story because I love the attention, the admiration of other people. Like, I should do this miserable thing because tomorrow I can just soak up the admiration.

That's right. It comes down. That's fantastic. I say all the time, it's like, just embrace the suck. And this Sunday will mark 250 days, regardless when this airs that I've gone without having a meal. And I've had some friends who are.

Like, nearly a year.

Yeah, nearly a year. They're like, like, why don't you just go for the whole year, even if you have the surgery? I'm like, well, the way it's going now, it probably will be. I was like, I think a win for me would be to have that Christmas dinner I never had last year would be fantastic. But also, it's, you know, this year without food, it's like. I mean, it's. It's. It's interesting. Len, you have to. I've had to change my mind.

A year without food.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. But what is. What, What. What are you capable of is like, what is the human body and mind capable of? What potential can you achieve? And I. I really have learned to embrace this as. As I see it as an opportunity. And, you know, it's. You know, there's a saying in the military, there is no easy day. And. But I think you get stronger.

Yeah.

Yeah, clearly. Oh, nice, Easy days. Yeah. So I would never have grown to the person I've become today without this unfortunate, you know, event happening in my life. But things could always be worse. You know, it goes back to that attitude of gratitude, and folks are like, oh, my gosh, what are you doing? It's like, well, I could be dead. You know, it's like. And I'm not. I could be you know, I could have a feeding tube. And I don't. You know, so, you know, it's. And I was like, I got a wife, a family. I got. I got an amazing career that I've done. I've been able to lift so many other folks up who have been suffering from this and raising a lot of awareness about accolasia in general and kind of the medical side of it, and that there's a human being on the other side of this and saying, oh, well, you can just live on a liquid diet. That's fine. That's actually not. I think we can be better human beings than that.

I think the big idea here is that. But you want to grow your company, you got to deal with yourself in the process. And while you may not have a dramatic disease, which I think, if I recall accurately, is esophageal achalasia. Right. Is the correct.

Yep.

And you might have some far more benign thing, like you're just a procrastinator.

Guilty as well.

Right. But whatever it is, like. Like there's something to overcome. And if you'll take on and set that example, you may not transform every single person in your organization, but you may see a few more stepping up. I think when I went from like zero and the couch to doing all those triathlons over the years, I can't tell you the number of people that heard me talk about it. They looked at me and they're like, I could do something. And just like the person that inspired me originally, I heard a woman talking about doing a half marathon. I looked at her. It seemed overwhelming, but I was like, well, look at her. I could do that. And I stepped up in the same way. So set that example. Set the bar. Change what's normal. Deal with yourself. And it can have really significant impacts, not only on yourself, but then all the people around you, which of course, reinforces the results that you want to produce. And then as well to the people that are really special to us, like the family members, the children. Children and stuff that we care deeply about. It's just an extraordinary thing that's available in taking on yourself and leading from the front. Right. Leading by example, dealing with yourself, working on the one in the mirror. Exactly right.

That's the most powerful form of leadership. The example we set is your audience. Yeah.

So it's been a great conversation. If you want to know more, Jeff Harris has a post, a little article about this on LinkedIn. We'll put that link in the show notes so people can go read it and learn about it and follow a little bit more. You can connect to you on LinkedIn as well. So we'll put all of that in the show Notes. I want to remind everyone that we are here every week with a new episode. We're starting to experiment with some new ones as well. We just did a panel episode with some other coaches talking through all the news of Scaling Up. We're going to do another one of those shortly. We'll throw up some other things to play with it. We'd love your feedback on this show and all of those new approaches. Send us a note to info scalingcoach.com find all of those episodes and more wherever you get your podcast. But you can also go to scalingcoach.com where not only can you get that, subscribe there and we'll do that, but you can get a download of many of our tools. I'll even give you a book for free if you just pay the shipping and handling. So all of that there. Our Latest workshops@scalingcoach.com As always, we love it if you like and subscribe. We especially love when people people take a minute to review us and give us a rating because that helps to to share it all around. Thanks again Jeff for joining us. We'll talk to everybody again next week.

Thank you Bill.

Oh big thanks as always to the.

Original growth guru, founder of All Things Scaling up and the Rockefeller Habits, Vern Harnish. This show is produced by Lucy Summers, the audio production at Podfly Productions Audio edited by Albert Burge the Show notes compiled by by Ein Kudina proofread by Tim McGowan if you loved it, please.

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