253: Dan McGaw — Leverage Your Marketing Data

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Oh, we're talking all about how to make your marketing efforts work better, right? If they suck, we're going to talk about how to make them actually cool. Make them work. If you felt like you've thrown marketing and other kinds of money after things that didn't work, that's what our conversation.

Is all about today.

Hi Hi. Hi everyone. My name is Bill Gallagher, host of the show the Scaling Up Business Podcast. I'm also your friendly neighborhood scaling coach and we do shows like this every week with authors, thought leaders, experts, gurus, CEOs and others about how to get scaling. We deal with people, strategy, execution and cash. You can find over, well, hundreds of episodes now on anything that you might guess. Wherever you find your favorite podcast or go to scalingcoach.com where you can get all of those that back catalog, search it, find the tools, the show notes, that kind of thing, as well as get a copy of the book for free. Scalingcoach.com all right, join me now as we talk to Dan McGaughan about his experience in making things cool, making them actually work. Hi, welcome to the show.

Dan hey, thanks so much for having me.

So glad to have you. This is a great conversation or a great topic. I don't know. We'll shall see if it's a good conversation or not. It's Friday as we record today and so it's Friday afternoon where I'm talking about. I'm a little punchy if you can't tell. I'm a little. And I know it's later where you are now you're ready to move into full family mode. So thanks for taking a minute to come talk to us about.

Absolutely. Happy to be here.

So before we get into how to use and be smarter about the way that we run our programs and do Things, how to bring more data and be more informed about it. Talk to us a little bit about your background in this, your background as an entrepreneur. How did you come to work in this field? Started your childhood or whatever's appropriate. Talk to us about that for a minute.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm a born entrepreneur, so I don't know anything else. I mean, I started my first company when I was 13 years old, so.

Came out of the womb with a cell phone.

Born pretty much. Absolutely. So I was ready to go. I was always hustling, I was always doing something. But I got my start actually in the music business. So I started one of the first online booking agencies. So being able to get DJs and artists ultimately booked through the Internet back in 1998. So I've just kind of seen some stuff. But I've been in the marketing technology space since about the same time because I was sending mass email since before there was even mass email. So I've just been in tech for a really long time at this point. Some people recognize me from, of course, before I started McGah IO as head of marketing at a company called Kiss Metrics. They're a very famous analytics company. So as head of marketing there, helped turn them into a rocket ship. Before that, I was head of growth at another company called Code School, another rocket ship which I helped get acquired by pluralsight. So just kind of a bit around, I've run a couple of my own successful businesses. I've worked at a couple other companies in the Martech space. And then now I run MAGA IO, which is a marketing technology marketing analytics agency. And then we also own a couple other software companies, one of them being a popular tool out there known as UTM IO. So I'm an entrepreneur through and through. I make a damn good employee. But my CEOs don't always love me because I am constantly trying to take their job.

So this show we love to talk about, you've got just solid cred in this space and understanding this, but we love to share the stories and we love that our guests come on ready to talk about what happened. So talk to us about the vegan company first.

Oh, man. Yeah. So, I mean, we worked with a company called Forks Over Knives. They were the trailblazing documentary. Right. So, I mean, everybody who has Netflix at some point has seen Forks Over Knives, their most popular documentary on Netflix for I think five years, on Amazon for multiple years, stuff like that. They were a client of ours that we did a lot of work with and really helped them kind of figure out their customer data stack and then as well as how they would ultimately be able to build out a new marketing infrastructure to really be able to help their customers get a good experience and push them down the funnel. So it was a fantastic project to work on. It was a lot of fun. But it was definitely a lot of personalization and automation to really kind of help their customers grow.

And what happened? How did it go? What did you do? What managed to come out of it?

Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, one of the key things that we had to help them with was really understanding where was the customer at in the buyer journey. I mean, I don't know yourself if you eat meat or if you're vegan or anything like that, but if you ever are a meat eater and you try to become vegan, it's not the easiest journeys. One, the world is not designed for vegans in general. It's not like you can go to fast food or most restaurants and very easily adapt. So when somebody would come to the website after seeing whether that be the documentary or one of the different programs, we had to learn where were they at in their buyer's journey? So were they vegan? Were they trying to be vegan? Were they failing at being vegan? Were they just vegan curious, as we would say? So as somebody would come in, they would come in mainly through a recipe or something simple, right? And at that time we had to then figure out like, which product should we sell them? And we had many products, from a meal planner to grandkids to salad dressings, online cooking school, a food delivery service. So as soon as they would sign up for email list, we would send them back an email that would say, hey, thanks so much for signing up. We want to tailor the experience to you. In the email, it asks the question, where are you at in your vegan journey? And there'd be five or so buttons. So, hey, I'm vegan curious. Hey, I'm, I just started trying to be vegan and I'm struggling. I'm, I'm winning right now and I just need some help or I'm completely vegan. And with that information, they would click on the button, send them back to the website. We would store some UTM codes and analytics, but also stored in marketing automation. And that would change the automation that that person would see moving forward. So the next email they would get if they were vegan curious would be, hey, why don't you learn the benefits of becoming vegan? Right? You could reduce your Cholesterol, you can improve your life. You can live a longer life, you can have a better sex life. Right. Like all the things that people want to hear when they're vegan. Curious. But if you're somebody that's struggling, what we're going to do is we're going to sell you a product, right? We're going to say, hey, if you're struggling, you should probably use our meal planner. It's going to be really, really helpful. Or you should sign up for the meal, the cooking course. Right. It's going to be really, really good. Or if you're really failing, maybe you should just buy the delivery service and we'll just deliver you vegan food so that way you don't have to worry about it. And then naturally, if you are vegan, we would immediately go to sell you our grain kits or our dressings or our cookbooks, because that's of course, what's going to sell to that user. And that had a massive impact, not only on retention of users in the email flow, so people actually didn't unsubscribe, but it also had a large impact on revenue because you're now getting served the products which are going to be most applicable to you. And all it started out was a simple survey and an email. You fill it out, you just click a button and now everything's tailored to you. It's really not that complicated, but I think a lot of companies miss that opportunity early on.

Yeah, I really get that. Tailoring and being responsive to what's going on. So you're using that and not just kind of broad stroking it. So it's focused. I like that a lot. And we did struggle with that. Some of my family members became vegan, and so every family holiday and event became a thing to try to cater to and, and honor and respect that. And now we have a whole range of it. Oh, I'm pescatarian or I'm this or I'm that. Maybe I used to think it was just because we were in California, but I think it's really everywhere now that people have unique kinds of food requirements. And then tailoring to that, both in our lives as well as in our marketing, I think is a great lesson there for folks. Then you also worked with a company that did vacation rentals. It's funny that that's the second example because I am today trying to book a house for an upcoming vacation. First one I've done with an airplane since over the last year.

Wow, that's fun. Yeah. Vacation rentals are definitely a fascinating space. We worked with a company called Carolina Designs Realty. They go by, like, Carolina Designs, but they're one of the largest vacation rental companies in the Outer Banks. So multiple different regions there. And it's really fascinating. I mean, I have never done vacation in the Outer Banks, but have you ever been?

I have been, yeah. It's nice.

It's cool. It's. It's beautiful down there. I mean, it's super, super awesome. But the, the differences of the vacation rental homes are quite astonishing, right? You can go from one where it's a couple hundred dollars a day to, oh, no, this house is $9,000 a day, right? So, like, really, really big disparity. And in their product, when you come to their site, CarolinaDesigns.com you have a lot of people that are trying to figure out how are they going to book a home, right? What are they going to do? But when you're renting a house that has 28 bedrooms, it's not like you're just going to go there with your three kids, right? Like, I'm not going to show up with my three kids and rent this giant house. I'm going to come there with four or five other families. And in many cases, what we had to understand when we first started working with them, who is the buyer, right? Who's the champion, as you would say, who's the person who makes the decision? And what we really learned is that in many cases, there's one person who's a champion, but then you've got to get four or five other families really invested in that decision to figure out what's going on. So in many cases, it was the matriarch, right? It was great grandma or grandma who started all of this. Not very technical. And we had to ultimately make it really, really, really easy for grandma to find the house that she's looking for. For the different reasons, right? Different filters which were built into the site. But the key thing that we focused on was how do we make it so that grandma can save that house and then as well as share that house with other people in her family and then be able to track how that house had been shared with other people and then give all of those constituents, as we would call them, an easy way to compare what grandma has shared with them, but also with whatever they were most interested in, including creating a basically a compare flow, a save flow, and then as well as a nurture flow. And I think that the thing that was most entertaining was that you would save a house and then be able to share that house with other people. But it would automatically send you emails. But was really, really important is as you were going through saving the houses in the Outer Banks, there's different areas. So there's Kill Devil Hills, there's Duck, there's Kitty Hawk. Each one of those areas has specific reasons why you would stay. And I'll just use Kill Devil Hills, which has the wild horses. Right. Really, if you want to go to Outer Banks. And I could be wrong in the area, but I'm pretty sure I think it's actually Corolla, now that I think about it. One of the areas you have to take four wheelers everywhere. Like there's not a. You can't just take a road and get there. You need a truck. And then there's wild horses out on the beach. So we needed to make sure that as people were saving these homes and sharing them, we also would send them automated emails that would have a nurture journey that was tailored to that area. And then as part of that, every single time they would save a home, it saved it to the bottom of that email. So they could always review that email. And at the bottom it would say, pick up where you left off. And there was a house that they had just looked at. And being able to connect all those things together with the stack was definitely an integral part to getting people to not only, hey, I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to spend $45,000 on this house, but I've also got to get Joe, Karen, Sally and two of our other kids involved. And then I've got to make it so that they can feel like they have a seat at the table and. But then I've also got to make sure that everybody knows what they're getting into and then also has a personalized experience so they can pick up where they left off and get right back in. And that a humongous increase in reservations because they were able to make that process a lot more simple. They were able to shorten the actual purchase time dramatically in regards to how long it took for somebody to make a reservation. And also reduce the number of deposit cancellations because instead of somebody submitting a deposit, canceling it because their daughter or their brother hates the house, we're able to reduce that friction and dramatically better understand how people are purchasing their rentals, which was a huge increase for that business.

So you can hear the clear business case for it and the value derived from something. Thanks for sharing all the details in that. It really Brings it to life. What about the difficulty in integrating all those things? So it sounds a little complex, I think for probably many of our listeners, how to put that together.

Yeah, I think trying to reduce the barrier to entry in regards to how this stuff works is always going to be really, really important. There's a lot of tools out there that enable this process to happen. It really only takes a little bit of work in regards to knowing a little bit of JavaScript or hiring a developer who can ultimately do it. And it's knowing how to ultimately get it done. Whenever you go to a website, the page loads. You see pictures, you see images. If you click on any single button on the page, you can basically track that button, click using Google Tag Manager and then grab elements from that page and make an API call to another tool. Now this sounds really, really complicated, but if you went and hired a you.

Said API call tool call, I think a lot of our listeners went away. But this is really just interacting with something kind of below the surface between applications on the web 100%.

And if you went to Upwork and you hired a $40 an hour developer and you basically told them, hey, when somebody clicks on this page, I want you to send that information over to ActiveCampaign, my marketing automation tool, it's really not that complicated. They'll be able to do that. And that's where you have to, of course, lean on your resources and things like that. And that would be something. I would definitely recommend checking out the content on our website because we talk about how to do all this stuff. But as long as your marketing automation tool knows somebody visited a page and you can get the image URL from that page, you can now show that in any email that you want. And it's. And it can be very, very simple, leveraging ActiveCampaign or autopilot with a little bit of Google Tag Manager to get that stuff set up. And it makes it so that anytime somebody goes to the site, we can naturally continuously send them better emails based upon all of that information. It sounds so complicated, but trust me, I'm not that smart in regards to this stuff. It's definitely something I was able to figure out and I think other people will be able to do it pretty well as long as they use a developer.

So I look at something, I click on something. Now the email follow ups that come to me are tailored to that. You'll pull in the image of that particular property or that area or whatever and I and I. And it's like you're Talking to that continuing thinking that I'm doing about, gee, do I really want to go there or not? Or get that house or not, or like that kind of thing 100%.

And there's products out there like Autopilot, which is a great marketing automation tool that gives you the ability to do some of this out of the box without a developer. You just have to add their JavaScript right to your site, like their tracking snippet, which most people who have a website are used to adding that tracking snippet. If you add their tracking snippet to the site, there's ways in their journey builder to basically say, when somebody visits a website, do this action, store this value. So if somebody visits a URL structure that says as an example, right. In your business, people are caring about cash flow. If a page contains cash flow, update this field on their record. So that way I know this person has an interest in cash flow. Now, in the future, when I send them an email, I can very quickly know all the people that ever visited that page that says cash flow and I can send them this email. Those types of things are built into your marketing automation tools and they don't take a lot of work to get going. It's just people don't think to ever do it because they have been exposed to the idea and they think the ability to do that requires all this engineering. But in many cases you just have to know how to do it in the tool and anybody can do it.

Interesting. I think if you don't know to ask that particular importance for this audience, right. Who are not necessarily experts in these tools. Knowing that this is possible lets you ask for it. You don't have to know how to do it, but just ask your developers, hey, we've got activecampaign or we've got something else running over here and now we're gonna do something over here. Can we connect those two so that we know what they did? Thinking about the interconnection of those tool, I think is really useful. Also knowing that you can connect tools that aren't, you know, we're buying almost everything today as some kind of a SaaS tool. Knowing that those things can talk to each other, I think is really a useful learning, right?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think the biggest thing that we always work with companies on is how do we integrate all the tools together, how do we get them to share their data? I mean, as a business, your most valuable asset is going to be your customer's data. How do you know more about your customer and how do you leverage that so you can provide them a better customer experience, whether that be through knowledge and analytics and insight generation, whether that be through personalization. If you can integrate all the tools together and get all the customer data in a very, very well structured way, you can do some really good stuff. And that's one of the things I talk about in my book, Build Cool Shit is like, how do you build a marketing stack and then integrate it all together and make it so you can create great outcomes?

Yeah, really, really well done. So talk about the T shirt company next. I think these stories are really great.

Yeah, Real Thread. And Real Thread is actually, if you were to check out my book, if you go to Maga IO, it's on the header of the site, you can get a free copy of my book, Build Cool Shit. I'll even at the end of this I'll give you a little text bot, which I think you'll have a lot of fun playing with Bill. That will kind of get you going. But we work with this company called realthread.com and real thread is a T shirt printing company, right? So they print high end fashion style T shirts for large companies and even small companies. So you can order like 36 T shirts for your bar mitzvah, right? But the typical order is coming like 20,000 shirts from Intercom or Envision app or Salesforce. They do big, big, big orders and their problem was is that their stack just was not integrated at all. So they couldn't tell where somebody came from if they called in or where they came from. If they emailed, they would get people through their chat system that would be halfway through completing an order and then they would not be able to attach this abandoned cart to what was going on. So the big thing that we had to focus on with them is one integrating the tools together. So everything talked, but the main outcome that we really had to focus on is how do we do lead scoring to ultimately filter these leads for the sales team. Like I had mentioned with the Forks Over Knives example, we had created that same hey, thanks for joining our email list. Why don't you click on this and tell us what type of role you are so we can send you good emails. So people would tell us that they're their CEO, they're a business owner, they're a designer, they're a different person in a company or a human resources manager. We would take that same survey style email, send them personalized emails. Right? Very, very simple process to do. But to tag onto that Is that the sales reps really had a hard time with getting thousands of leads a month. What were they going to be able to focus on? How were they going to talk to people? So one, that survey email gave us what we would call progressive profiling. We could ask more questions. Oh, you're a CEO. What type of industry? Ask another email question. But we also integrated their stack with data enrichment. We leverage a technology called Clearbit. So once you give me an email, I instantly am able to find out leveraging their service, what type of company you're at, how much revenue do you have, what technologies are on your website, how many employees do you have? I mean, we're talking hundreds of attributes I can get about your company in an API call, which is when I say an API call, it's literally me saying, connect this service and that service. With all of that information, though, we would flow all of that data into our marketing automation tool. And if somebody was a VP, we would give them 20 points. If somebody was a director, we'd give them 10 points. Somebody was a CEO, we'd give them 50 points. If somebody was at a really big company that did 50 million in revenue, we'd give them more points. And what this would do is enable us to really quickly, based upon demographic, firmographic and technographic information, say, this lead is really important. You need to talk to them, right? Like, you need to make sure that you reach out to bankofamerica.com really quickly because we're able to lead score. Not only did that lead scoring and automation that we had from that data enrichment help a lot, but we could also track every engagement the customer had on the website. Once again, leveraging marketing automation using a what you see, what you get WYSIWYG builder, I could track this. So if somebody was visiting the T shirt printing design page, right, Multiple times, I can constantly give them 10 more points or 20 more points. If they hit the checkout page, give them 50 more points. And this lead scoring enabled the sales team to very, very quickly know these are the people that are engaged. These are what they're engaging with. I need to reach out to them. This guy John is going to purchase a lot of shirts. So that lead scoring tied in with the progressive profiling from that email that I talked about had a dramatic impact on their business. I mean, we were able to increase their total orders from online purchases by 50% in just over a year. And that's a lot, right? 50% increase in total orders from online in a year. That's a lot of money and they're not a small business by any means. So. And that was because sales could actually understand what was happening, what was going on. We could see what was going on in the funnel and actually have an impact on the customers who are going to purchase. And some people who were not going to purchase, we just wouldn't, we wouldn't talk to them. Right. It made it a lot easier to know that.

Yeah, there's so much online that's for free. Some people just want to browse around endlessly for free, that's fine. But you don't devote your resource to them, your cycles. And I think it's probably interesting to a lot of our listeners and viewers.

That.

Many people are probably familiar that you can do lead scoring and things like that. But the simple notion that you can improve that with outside calls to other platforms, seeing what's happening elsewhere, I think is really useful.

Yeah. And there's a lot of technologies that do it that provide data enrichment. I mean, Clearbit is really popular. They recently just got really expensive. But there's other companies like Full Contact, which will enable you to really quickly find out more information. Tower Data is another popular company. But it definitely gets creepy, the information that's out there as an example, and I don't think most people understand this. I mean, every single time you swipe your credit card, Experian knows what you bought, where you bought it and all of the information. Experian sells that stuff for a hundredth of a penny to everybody else. And that data is all available somewhere. And you signed up for that when you told Discover you agreed to their privacy policy. So, Melissa, which is a very popular data enrichment company, Experian, which is a very popular data enrichment company. These companies all have the ability for you to connect Salesforce or Marketo or Pardot to their create an API integration. And really just with the knowledge of a phone number, a first and last name with a zip code, somebody's email address, we can, we can get a bunch of information. And you want, do you want to have a little experiment which I think will be good for your audience that we could test out?

Sure.

So we, I did a talk at multiple conferences. Now it's called how to do Personalization without being Creepy. But let's talk about all the creepy people out there as well. Companies mess this up all the time, but we can get enrichment from anywhere. So what I want you to do is. Bill, do you have your cell phone on you? I'm going to give you a cell phone number and I'm going to have you text a word to it and then it will ask you for your email back and then we'll see what kind of creepy messages you get. So the phone number is 415-915-9011. So I'll say that again to make sure everybody has it correct. 415-915-9011. Now, hopefully this doesn't break and there's no bugs in your the flow for you. But if you text the word creepy, C, R, E, E, P, Y, no spaces, just the word creepy. If you text it, you will get a response back that then says thanks so much for joining the experiment. Why don't you give us your email and we'll see if it works. Hopefully this doesn't break on the air because that would be a super bummer. It might take a minute, but either way, give it your email. It will then ping one of our enrichment APIs from our marketing automation tool. And I built this without any developers. And then our enrichment service will then collect as much information as it can from the Internet that it might be able to find out about. You use your corporate email, that's always going to be a better one. And then it will send you an email about four minutes later with everything we could find on you on the Internet. And it's creepy sometimes what you get. Not everybody's gonna get everything. But just imagine because I got your email, I get your zip code, I'm able to find out where you work, I'm able to see how much revenue they have. There's a lot of stuff. And if you're kind of a popular guy like I am on the Internet, there's around 150 different fields that came back on me, my picture, my company's logo, all kinds of stuff. So it can definitely get really, really powerful.

Yeah, well, my information is not particularly private on the Internet and I've made an effort to not be hid. Hopefully it'll pull back a lot of stuff. But then what it pulls back and how you use it is interesting. I did something in a much earlier era. We had figured out a way to predict what countries people call. And so we started direct mailing people on the more profitable routes. And we had different versions for each route and that kind of thing. And we sent out one campaign that said something like, because you call Germany a lot, we've got a special program for you. Well, Germans are like many people, but particularly privacy concerned.

Yes.

And the blowback was instantaneous. And people were like, what the hell how do you know this? Why do you know this? This is creepy. Right? And, and so our thing was very, very accurate. Like we could predict very high where you called and what you did and that kind of thing. So what we did to modify and using public, you know, information that was not illegal. Right. Nor hidden or anything else. But what we did was a subtle and really welcome change. We just said if you call Europe a lot, we've got something that's of interest. So one we said we were less sure of ourself and less specific. And by making it less sure and specific, people were willing to hear it and respond to it. So simply going from because you call Germany to if you call Europe, it was really well received and produced huge responses, right?

No, and that type of stuff works. I mean, listen, Target can predict with 92% accuracy that you're pregnant in your like your second month, right? Just based upon like things that you're doing in their stores and as well as you're doing it. So the predictions out there.

And that's even if you didn't do the P test in the store, 100%.

Right. But that's it. How do you make it so that the message is not creepy? And that's what my whole talk talks about is. And if you went to our website, Maga IO, I mean it's. You go to the footer download and resources, that site that, that talks on there. But companies really get it wrong. I mean people are predicting pregnancies, weddings, congratulating people for having babies because they liked a photo on Pinterest. Like some companies really get awkward how.

You use it and execute on it. Right. If I said, hey, we heard you're pregnant and that came at a wrong time or you just had a miscarriage or any number of things, a nightmare. Right. But what if we said instead you're start. If you're, if you're thinking about a family, we've got something, you know, like that. That's a whole way better. Yeah, way better. The tone can make a big difference. So am I supposed to see a whole reaction on this thing or is it churning away on my.

Did it, did it ask you for your email?

Yeah, asked me for a few minutes. We're going to scour the webs and see what we find out.

Yeah, give it a, give it a few minutes. It will send you a text message.

Email.

Yes. So we have to email you the payload because it's, it will display images and text doesn't display images. So did you get the text that says, check your inbox.

I did. So there's my most public, most studio photo that came back to me.

That's great. I like it.

All the basics. It's got my postal code wrong.

That happens.

But it's neighboring, it's nearby, right?

Yeah.

It says it's got my Twitter followers, my Twitter handle, some background, a little bit about what I do, who I am.

Now imagine you're a salesperson on my team.

Yeah, Right.

All I have is your cell phone number and your email. And your email is what gave me all the additional information. I now no longer have to do my research. I now just look at what the information was backfilled in and I can move on or I can choose to reach out. So all that information is there and we're using just one API. If we were to integrate in with Melissa Experian, full contact, zoom info, all the things the data does get really creepy. And that's where, like, I looked up my wife's email with Experian. We're doing a study on their project. About a year ago, told me she drove a big suv, told me that she had a child that likes soccer. Told me that she was into high priced fashion goods. Right. Like, there's just a lot of information. And on your cell phone, if you use any mobile app, they know where you're located, they know what you walk by. Like, it's just, it's amazing the amount of data that we have access to. And if you use it ethically, there's a lot of good experiences you can create.

So the, what I got back is it's not creepy, the name's good. But it's, it's good, solid, actionable information. I didn't get back anything too weird.

You know, like, well, that's your, that's your opinion, right? It's the fact that I got your image with just your email. Right. For some people, they're like, how did you do that?

Right. Yeah.

The talk was done at a conference of not somebody who lives in the Bay Area, of course. So I think you're definitely a different demo than some other people. Right? So, but I got your picture, I got your zip code very, very close by. So it's definitely right.

So you can speak to and speak with me in a knowledgeable, informed fashion about some things. And you could make some guesses and predictions. And especially if you were screening a variety of people, like, that would be like, okay, this kind of adds up. This person looks like this is a complete, cohesive picture. Sometimes when we get information from people. It doesn't quite connect up. Like what? This doesn't look like that. And something seems off. Right. That's a useful data point as well. So I'm hearing a few takeaways. Useful to sum up some of these things. It's a lot easier to connect your tools and things like that and be smarter about it. And connecting those things and being smarter can have a huge, huge impact on the kinds of results that you get out of it. And that customer data is valuable if we can figure out how to use it. Yeah, absolutely.

I think that was a great summary.

Any key tools or things like that to share with our people or anything to wrap up in our conversation? Things that you want to make sure folks know or thinking about?

Yeah, I mean one definitely go check out my book Build Cool Shit. You can go to my site MAGA and there's a free copy of it. You just have to pay for shipping. Will really help you kind of push forward. The book was designed for CEOs and executives and it's 120 pages long, it's colored, it's all kinds of stuff like that. So really, really good. But I would also check out some technologies that I'm a really, really big fan of. Autopilot, like I mentioned earlier, is amazing marketing automation tool. ConvertFlow is a really, really popular personalization and pop up tool that we're seeing a lot of people use. So definitely those are some easy, cool tools that I'm using a lot. And then everybody should be using UTMs to track their marketing effectiveness. Check out UTM IO. It's one of our companies, helps you with your campaign links and makes it nice and easy. It's a free product that most people can use. So hopefully those things will help people kind of get pushed along in their journey of getting this stuff done because we're always happy to help.

So it's danmagaw IO for the website buildcoolshit the book and thanks so much for coming on the show, Dan. I wanna remind all of our listeners that if the show helped you pass it along to somebody else, share the love, be generous. It pays back and forth. Pays off. If you subscribe either at our website or wherever you get your shows, you'll get them every week, three times a week now. A tip, a deep dive with a guru, an expert. A getting real conversation with a CEO about their leadership journey, growing the business. All that and more@scalingcoach.com, hundreds and hundreds of episodes. If you've got an idea thought, a question or anything like that. If you'd like help finding a coach in your area or with a special vibe that you need, drop us an email to influence info@scalingcoach.com Big thanks to Vern Harnish, author and creator of the Scaling Up Framework. Our show is produced by Lucy Summers, the audio is added by Albert Burge at Podfly Productions, and our show notes are written up by and codina proofread by Tim McGowan. Thanks again everyone for listening. We'll talk to you again next time. Keep Scaling Up.

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