Getting Real with Shelby Scarbrough — Practical Protocol

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We're talking about making friends on the way to living your best life, your joy journey, practical protocol, all kinds of good stuff with my good friend we're getting real Shelby Scarborough. Hey everyone, I'm Bill Gallagher, Scaling Coach, host of the Scaling Up Business Podcast. You can find hundreds of episodes in this series and more wherever you get your favorite itunes, type downloads, your podcasts, video, audio, whatever, iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, YouTube, wherever or@scalingcoach.com with all the show notes, the authors, the links, the special offers, all that copies of the tools that we talk about, all that and more@scalingcoach.com these getting real episodes on our Scaling Up Podcast explore how our leadership is developed by growing the business over time. How we evolve. We talk about the lucky breaks people have had along the way, how they've navigated breakdowns, the things that have frightened and embarrassed them, their regrets, the things they brag about, the things they're grateful for, and how they're growing and developing as leaders. These Getting Real episodes are sponsored by the Bay Area. The Bay that's easy for me to say, right? The Bay Area Entrepreneur Organization Chapters, commonly known as eo, our member led organization is the very best place for entrepreneur to grow and connect with peers to learn and support each other as they build their businesses over time. I'm proud to have been a member joining over 20 years ago what was then known as Yeo, and I've held a variety of roles through several different companies in my time with the organization. The EO members in the Bay Area Chapters are supported and connected to over 14,000 members across more than 61 chapters worldwide, giving them access to a world of entrepreneurship and friends and people to connect to. If you'd like more information about EO or to apply for membership, just go to eonetwork.org all right, listen in now as we talk with Shelby Scarborough about her experience and journey in the process of growing. Welcome to the show, Shelby.

Hi, Bill. How are you?

Nice. Are you in the Bay Area today?

I am. I am in the not so sunny Bay area.

So, listeners, viewers, you should know Shelby began her career in the White House with President Reagan as part of the advance team, she helped organize major meetings between people like the Reagan Gorbachev Summit. And then she went on to found a company, Practical Protocol, creating special events with, you know, super high level VIPs, people like Nelson Mandela. Sure. You know, or my good friend John Paul Elect Bellitza. Right. Just, you know, guys in a diner kind of people. Anyway, I'm being funny. And then she went on in her tenure in the EEO organization, eventually serving as a global chairman of our organization. She lives in the Bay Area. She's today a speaker, entrepreneur and a writer and a friend. And I'm so glad to have you join the show. Welcome.

It's great to be here.

You grew up in an entrepreneurial family, right?

I did. We made a lot of hamburgers together.

So talk about that and tell us, did you actually know that that would be your future? Did you take it for granted or did you think, oh, I'm going to do something else?

No, you know, definitely working in our family business, which was Burger King restaurants, from an early age, 15 years old, so I worked in every single position and in the summers in college, went through management training and that kind of thing. I knew kind of once I got out there in the working world that I probably was destined to be an entrepreneur. And I don't know if they're born or made, but somewhere in the middle I got a little bit of both probably. And once I got done with my government experience, it was sort of the only path I really wanted to take.

Interesting. So it was fated. It was a birthright, if you will.

Yeah, a little bit of both.

Oh, well, that's super cool. So talk a little bit about, why don't we start actually kind of with maybe a lucky break. Right. Serving the White House certainly is a lucky break. Experience, access, confidence. Talk about what that was like, what you have carried forward from that.

Sure. You know, I think it was one of the best experiences probably anybody could have as far as the, the professional level of expectation that that was sort of expected, that perfection was the goal, you know, and although nothing was ever perfect, it really, it was more about anticipating issues and planning ahead and thinking through everything is in the job that I did and knowing that things would change. So that was actually a really good life lesson from the very beginning that, you know, nothing is perfect, but you can strive for excellence and get out there and do the best you can and then be prepared and plan, but be prepared for change and not let that throw you. You have to be ready to pivot, literally.

So you're saying that you knew that this thing wouldn't last, this being associated with power, this, you know, you didn't have an illusion that that was because of you or something?

Oh, no. Yeah. On that, from that perspective, you know, politics is very cyclical. It's a two and a four year experience. It's a, you know, something in those cycles. So those things come and go. So you need to definitely understand that that is fleeting. It's a fleeting time. And I had somebody ask me for some experience share at one point who was in the White House after I had already left. And she said, you know, you're an old timer now. What do you, what do you have to offer me? And I told her a couple things that kind of came to me quickly. One was don't, you know, to treat everybody with kindness that you worked with and respect for a couple of reasons. One, because it's the right thing to do. And two, because you never know where those people are going to go. And our, you know, the mailman, we call them, the red, the red dot guy who would come around and pick up the envelopes that needed to go right away to the West Wing or something like that. You know, they end up congressmen and senators and things like that. So don't underestimate where anybody is, especially in politics, but anywhere. And because it is the human thing to do, to be kind to people. But there's also kind of a strategic element to it too. Don't be stupid and burn your bridges early. And so, because especially you think about the tech world as well and all these kinds of different industries, people rise quickly and you don't always know who's going to end up in what seats. So the other is that power is fleeting and if we get too full of ourselves, we're going to suffer the consequences later in life. Unfortunately, I saw that from afar. I didn't experience it personally, but I saw people burning bridges by being really, you get kind of heady because you call, say you're from the White House, anybody will take your call the day you're done, unless you built a rapport and a good relationship with people, you know, especially if you haven't you won't get your call responded to, especially if.

You'Ve been a bully, you know. So I'm listening to this thing and this is really your show about you. But I am like, instantly, like, reminded what a jerk I've been, how arrogant I've been. I think about two, like, major moments in my early career where one minor. But I just, I thought it was all me. I became so arrogant with it with an early job and people just, you know, thought I was cool and wanted to be around me and all that kind of thing. And, and then when I didn't have that anymore, I'm like, oh, I'm not. You mean I'm not attractive. I'm not that awesome.

I'm just human, right?

I'm just human. It was so humbling. And then later I started a group in another company as a new, like a new group, new division. And I grew it up over 500 million. And then when I called, I represented not only that 500 million, but I represented also that major company that was even much larger still. And, and I was an executive in that company and I had a title and a budget and all that kind of thing. And I, I just thought, like, they're taking a call because me, because I know how to call people because I know how to make shit happen because that. I'm that guy, right? And, and, and then along the way, there was one person. Well, there were probably a couple more than one, but one person who really stands out, who I remember who I just thought was really dumb and annoying and, and she broke the hell out of me. And so I would not. Well, I wasn't mean about it, but I wasn't compassion either. I'd just be like, yeah, that's a stupid idea. And here's why, right? And I was 26 and I, you know, that's a lot of responsibility stuff at 26. And I would just like, chop her down. Anyway, things move, things change, as you say. And she became my boss one day and I just was like, oh, yeah. And here's how arrogant and clueless I am. I didn't even think then about what a jerk I'd been. I just thought, wow, it's going to be like to work for somebody who's so stupid.

That's what probably.

Work for her much longer.

I was going to say as quickly.

As she found a compelling reason, which, you know, in any other situation, it wouldn't have been very compelling, but, like, it was very easy to pull the trigger and fire my butt and then suddenly I realized nobody was interested in taking my call. I couldn't get anything done. Nobody was going to extend me credit or ship me samples or nothing. I had no grace. And I had been. I hadn't been a jerk to everyone. Right. I still had some play and that kind of thing, but there were quite a few people that I was really obnoxious with. And I'm still arrogant to this day, so I appreciate that reminder.

Well, we're friends. We can, we can work to. We can work on that.

Talk about your challenge. Right? That was my challenge. You just highlighted how you avoided that with an early lesson. What's been your challenge so far?

You know, I. I have a. I think now just actually it's a way backstory. But it's the same thing as I did do something really, that I still regret, and that is that I chewed somebody out in public and, you know, instead of reprimanding in private and praising in public. And I was younger, I was out of the White House, but it was a Desert Storm parade. So it was after the first Desert Storm, the Kuwait. In Kuwait. And they were. We were having a parade. And so I was on the committee and I had about eight reports, direct reports. And this one guy, it was the killed in action families that he was in charge of. And he was a former military guy and young, you know, really nice guy. And something happened. I don't even remember what happened, but something happened. And I was furious because we were dropping the ball on these families who, who suffered the. The greatest loss of their. Their child at war, you know. So I was thinking I, I just lost it. And it was. I remember it was in a hallway and I just lost. Lost it completely. And, And I later, obviously I went back and apologized, but I still. That haunts me kind of to this day that I did that because he was a good guy and he was working hard, and there it was a problem and the ball was dropped. But that was. I dropped the ball in my leadership, in how I handled it.

Isn't that funny? And you still can think about it. You could probably feel what it felt like and remember that. I think we all have had those moments where you just.

Yeah, I just, you know, I shouldn't have done it, and it was wrong of me. And if I saw him today, I would apologize. I don't. I don't remember exactly how to find him. So I'm trying to figure out how to find him.

Well, and what's the book? Civility.

Civility Rules.

Yeah, this is A core value of yours, of course. This moment where you are uncivil with someone. Right. Where you didn't show a regard and dignity for their humanity. And that stings you to have been personally at odds with your own values.

Yes. Yeah. And that's really, that's really the point, obviously. I mean, it was bad for him at the moment, but he's probably long forgotten about it or it doesn't, it hasn't ruined his life, I'm sure. But, you know, I still. It bothers, it bothers me that I didn't live up to the things that I think I should be living up to, I guess.

Yeah.

I wonder about that. There are these moments that make sometimes such an impression on us. I went and contacted an old friend years ago and I said, oh, I'm really sorry about this thing. I've been, I think about it from time to time, all these years and they were like, oh, yeah, that's, that's nothing. I'm really like, glad. Overall our relationship is good. I think of you fondly, you know, no problem. I've been this guilt about it forever.

And ever, but it's never, it's never wrong to, you know, own up to your own failings and apologize, I guess. So there's, you know, there's very little downside to that. I think sometimes we, when we worry that that's going to show weakness and I, I think that shows greater strength than weakness.

I wonder sometimes. So I had a boss once also at this, at, at Sprint, at this big company, and one of many, not the boss who fired me, but another time. And he laid into me publicly in front of people while doing our like, annual plan, annual strategy review. Each sort of unit head was presenting their stuff and he just, like, he ripped me with profanity and humiliation and all that kind of thing, you know, I'm a young guy in my, in my mid-20s, and here's this old exec just laying into me and I. It stung so bad and I just wanted to cry. And now it did make me stronger. And as a very formative memory, like, so I don't. I try not to do that to people.

Right, exactly.

I wonder how he would think of that. Like, oh, I made that guy stronger, you know, so, yeah, maybe. Or maybe he's embarrassed about that and carrying guilt about it.

If people do it a lot, they probably don't remember.

Yeah. If it's a regular thing. Yeah, he had an edge.

There has to be a little bit of self awareness along the way.

So what about this other thing in getting ready, you also talked about doing things yourself versus using a team. That, that tug of war, how does that live for you? Talk about that.

Well, I, I'm really not great at delegating. I've done a lot of things on my own over the years, and so I've become really self sufficient. But, you know, if you want to grow and if you want to scale, if you want to advance on the many things that I'm working on, there has to. You have to be able to accept help and be good about explaining what help you need. And I think that's where I'm okay at stakeholders accepting the help, explaining it and teeing it up is not my greatest strong suit. So I'm working with somebody who fortunately forgives me for that, helps me along the way and, you know, grabs the things as they're falling out of my hands. So. But that's, I think that would be, you know, that's one of my weaknesses is, is also my strength, you know, is I'm self sufficient. But at the same time, I need, if I really want to accomplish the things I want to accomplish, I need to accept help and make help, make them successful in that process.

Interesting. And so what's your coping mechanism today? If that's a kind of a core weakness, how have you learned to manage that instinct? Or what's your. Do you use a reminder or a structure?

Yeah, a couple things, you know, to do. Lists, obviously. But I kind of try to look at things, try to look at the list and say, how can I separate this out? What can be done by Ava versus me versus, you know, that kind of thing, how can we get these things done? And then a little bit of trying to plan ahead, which I'm still struggling with. But the, you know, looking at it ahead of time and planning out the week and just trying to take organizational measures into my hands or actually push them out of my hands. So things like sharing calendars, I mean, simple tactical stuff, but strategically, it's really about taking time to work on that and accepting that I'm not good at it and focusing a bit on it just to get systems in place to help me versus struggling with it all the time.

So when I think about your early White House job and then who you've been over time. So I would think there would be an intense amount of detailed planning that would go on.

Yes.

And then I would think there'd be a need for a lot of grace in human contact and then being responsible. It sounds like you're saying that you were really good at the latter two, like grace at the human connection and being responsible, accountable, but not so much at the planning, like the mapping out everything.

My job there was to map out everything and to know every detail. And, and I did have to communicate every detail to people who did their jobs. But doing my job, I had to. My job was sort of like the spoke at the hub of a wheel. It was the central piece of communication to. To fit, to get all the details in and then push the details out to the other spokes that needed to know this. So a good exam, just simple examples is if, if Air Force One, if we were going to leave 10 minutes later and Air Force. I had to tell the people at Air Force One. I had to tell the Secret Service, I had to tell the press, I had to tell the staff. Who needs to know this information? That's the big question. And that's a great way to parse it in your own companies and things is to say, who needs to know this information? It's not just me. So I did have some of that. But for some reason after I graduated from the White House, I managed to again, because I had to do so many. I was my own tech person. I was my own, you know, back in the day, right. We didn't have. I was one of the first people, I hate to say this, I sound so old. One of the first people to get a cell phone in my, in my community. And they came and hand delivered it to my house and set it up for me. That's kind of was the personal service involved. That's how it was. Motorola, it was actually a tiny little, tiny flip phone. And people were like, whoa, that's so James Bond. You know, I mean, people had the bigger phones and everything. And the Motorola actually came later. The big. I had a tiny little Fujitsu or something like that.

I have the same one.

Did you?

I still have it because it's so cool. I kept it like object, right?

Yeah.

And people were like, where's Sony? It was very unknown. Like the little Fujitsu thing with the lip that opened up and then there was the keypad underneath. That was a very sexy phone.

Yeah, it was very sexy. So all those kinds of things I had to say, set up myself and do and even the accountings. I was a very early QuickBooks user with, before it was QuickBooks Online, all that kind of stuff. So, you know, I just, I. But eventually you just get overwhelmed with doing everything yourself. And so I went to, I went to ordering A. Ordering, finding a bookkeeper early in life, because I knew that that was not one thing that I was really great at or enjoyed, and I didn't want to spend my entire weekends doing that stuff when I first started my business. So it's just, you know, it's just I. I would say I'm probably a bad example of. Of leadership from that perspective, just because I haven't. I've had to do a lot of it myself, and so. And I know what expectations I have. And so it's. That's my personal challenge always is to say, if you can delegate it, you should delegate it and let it go a little bit to the fact of not. It doesn't have to be a perfect thing, you know, and I'm not perfect, and nobody's perfect. So if it's not perfect, it's okay. We can, we just, you know, it's a matter of communication and continuing to communicate. So it's. It's definitely one of my Achilles heels. So.

You talked about a superpower, right? Superpower is in the people realm. Talk to me about your superpower. What do you think's your superpower?

Well, you know, I. I kind of think that connecting, actually, really, when I think about it more, is my superpower, the ability to connect people together. When we do these strategy summits for eo, I always, I ask. I like to ask that question, and my answer in that question is, what would you want your superpower to be? I'd want it to be a healer. But if you think about the value of connecting people together through community, that has a healing component to it in some sense, you know, that that's got healing qualities when people feel connected to one another. So I guess in a weird way, in a tangential way, I can. Can. I can say that because I do enjoy putting people together who have interested interests together, or sometimes they might not even see the connection and just say, look, you guys need to talk to each other. You're going to find a lot in common. And that's. That's something I. It brings me a lot of joy and raises my energy level a bit, my vibration level a little bit, to think that, that, you know, I can push that button and make two people connect.

Yeah. It's interesting, somebody with a political background with one particular party and a lifetime of connection in that realm, that you would be as universally well spoken of and regarded. And I think it's a credit to. I mean, you've been on the show to talk about the civility topic before, just how good you are as a human about having respect for other people's humanity. Right. And regard for their perspective. Right. You and I probably have donated to different groups many times and supported different things. And yet, you know, you, I, I know that you would be there for me for anything.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, and it's, you know, it gets down to sort of common value systems. It's, it's, I've always said in politics, it's, it's, it gets on the extremes that, that becomes a little different conversation. But when you come into the middle of the population, into where most people live, you know, we, we basically all have fundamentally the same value systems. You know, we want to want our kids to have good educations, we want to have a decent place to live, an opportunity to make a living. You know, it doesn't, it's not, it's not about Rolls Royces and all these crazy things. It's, let's just solid stuff, stuff about having equality in the world and justice in the world and some, some big concepts. But the question then becomes probably where it diverts in places for people is how you achieve that. And that's really, I've always kind of maintained that and there's a, you know, that could be a three hour debate on that kind of thing in and of itself. But that's how I have found my ability to say, look, I don't, I may not agree with somebody politically, but I can see their heart. I know what they feel. And I, and we have a similar heartbeat about things.

One of your secrets, both are some of our families, anyway, came over a very long time ago. I mean, I'm sure we all have many different threads and waves of that kind of thing, but some of my ancestors were here before the country was a country. Right, And I know you have that too. What does that mean for you? Why is that important? What do you think about that?

You know, interestingly now there's, there's even more focus on it, I guess in the negative. Right. So, but meaning what? The first, the Pilgrims, which were my aunts, my ancestors on one side, but what they did or didn't do and this how true or what stories and all that kind of thing. I just look at it as these people, their fundamental core was about freedom and the right to worship on their own and to make their own choices. And they set out on a very courageous course because, I mean, just the ship alone coming over on the Mayflower was pretty treacherous. In fact, my particular ancestor fell off and there's a. So I either had a.

Really learn to swim, you know.

Yeah, yeah, he, he had either, I don't know, either total luck or he had some good genes in him along the way because he, he was rescued. And so there's. If you look up the, you know, John Holland was his name. If you look up John Holland and the Pilgrims and the, on the Mayflower, you'll see a picture of a guy in the middle of the ocean and the ship and the Mayflower next to him because people have painted paintings of it but they, you know, he got back on and he married one of the people on the ship and, and ended up having 10 children at Elizabeth Tilly and they had 10 children. And my family came down through Desire was one of them, which I thought was kind of funny that these puritans would name a child Desire. But you know, it was hope, faith, hope, desire, all those kind of things. So she had 10 children and there we go. It continues on and on. I just think of it in terms of interesting legacy and I kind of imagine the, you know, almost like a roots novel going back all the way back and kind of following the thread of different people all the way through to get to people like us where we are all semi, not technically related. But you know, follow these lines. And now here we are as descendants and what do our lives look like and what everybody else's look like in the process of how they got there? You know, I think of my great grandmother who I'm about to put a book out on her. It was her, it was her journal and she was one of the descendants. And so it talks about, she saw, you know, horse and buggy days. She started in the horse and buggy days and she ended up sitting next to her son in law and daughter at, you know, the landing of the space shuttle at Edwards Air Force Base. And so her and her son in law, my grandfather was a pioneer aviator. So we saw all these, you know, she saw that transportation alone, just that one subject changed so much in her lifetime. And so her book kind of goes through all these things, is sort of an observer of it all. And that's, it's just kind of fun to see what those. How life has changed and for the better and in some ways for the worse. You know, we've lost a little bit of that small town community kind of stuff. I see a lot of people wanting to find that again, even if it's in a city, you know, people's city blocks become their small community or those kinds of things. I think we need connection to people. And is the irony of the closer we are because of transportation, the closer we are because of communication, in some ways, we're less connected to each other.

I've done quite a bit of genealogy, in particular after my grandmother and my dad died on my dad's side, and I knew there were some stories, I became very interested in what they hadn't told me about. In particular the guy that I'm named after, my great, great grandfather. And I started to research that, and then I found that I was able to trace that back 800 years. And if you get lucky and you have somebody who had some particular title or nobility or something like that, there will be a lot of records. Right. If they did something, and then that whole bloodline gets a lot of things. And of course, today there are some of the things like that. But tracing them back, Some of those stories that you discover, I think are fascinating. They're not all noble and great. They're criminals and horrible things. I think when you. You just have to look back a little ways before you find some. Some pretty terrible things.

Yes.

I like to. I like to think that my family were. At least some of them were original illegal immigrants to this country. Still, it's fair and square from the original nation. Right. Which is a tragedy. I mean, we make light of it, or I'm making light of it right now, but, I mean, there are these terrible things. But I think it's great to kind of know the whole. The whole picture of all of the complicated history. It's also fascinating. And I am reminded of that we're all born of survivors, by and large. The people that pass on their genes are the people that just didn't kick it really early. Right.

Yeah. Darwin.

Who weren't slaughtered, who. Who were doing the other side of it. And. And I think that's interesting. Like, you know, I know that one of my ancestors crossed the country on a wooden leg while his family rode in. In. In a, you know, a covered wagon.

Wagon. Wow.

And so that seems pretty extraordinary to cross the country right. On a wooden leg. A cannabis. Right. You know, I get uncomfortable if I don't have the right arch support in my shoes.

I don't want to walk exactly across.

The country on a wooden leg. He also lost almost all of his children.

Oh, my gosh.

They just died along the way. Right.

Wow. Yeah.

And one child was born on the path. And, you know, and those are the kind of people that were from. And, you know, that's one that I know. But we all have Something like that. You just may or may not know it, but extraordinary metal. It's really cool. All right, so back to you. Talk about. Let's do two things. What are you. What can you brag about and what are you grateful for? A brag and some gratitude.

Yeah. I don't. I knew this. But now I'm thinking, I think that I'm just really grateful for, especially at the time of COVID Right. Just for the connection to family and friends that I've had and the ability to continue to work and create and follow my own passions and in a safe way. You know, be safe and all that kind of thing. That's just. I mean it's a simple pleasure at this point. Point. And I'm grateful for that bragging, I guess. You know, I don't know. See, it feels funny. I feel. I feel good that I finished my book. That.

Yeah. Come on. Well, brag. Finish the book is not a small thing.

Yeah. And actually published it. We have several other books coming, so that's kind of neat. My grandfather's autobiography that we had written like a novel. So that'll be fun. Comes out in a couple months. I'm just finishing it. It's a very. It'll be like an adventure. It's an adventure story. It should be a movie. So getting that. That's been a 30 year journey or 25 year journey to get that done. And I finally get pushed and pushing that over the finish line. So I just. That's what I guess I'm, you know, from a brag standpoint, I guess and just it feels good to accomplish some of those things. But it doesn't come without help from a lot of people, that's for sure.

So now look back to your younger self. If you could go back and talk to your fresh 21 year old self or whatever age, what advice would you have for her?

You know, I probably would say, you know, good job. Even though you didn't know what you were doing. I sort of tripped into some things that. And the way I tripped into them was by being assertive and confident but not aggressive. And so I think that was. I look back and I. And I like that. That, that was good. And then it would probably be. Have more self confidence. Even though I just said all of that. It's still. Deep down is just believe in yourself more and because other people do believe in you and. And you need to believe in yourself more. So that. That would probably be one of the main things I would tell myself. Don't sweat the Small stuff. So much.

Yeah, I get that. Yeah. You are more badass than you realize. I mean smart, capable before you realize it.

It's a nice quality to, to feel confident, comfortable in your own skin after a lot of years and that. So that feels good. And I guess I would tell the younger me is don't worry, you'll get there. So it'll happen. Just, you know, do what you do.

What are you working on now? What's your big goal from here? What's next?

So again, a lot of these books, I've got several coming out. We're just starting this e commerce site on called the joyjourney Life and it's going to be, it's a companion to the book that I'm writing on Joy and but it's all sort of products that are, that bring joy. But either they bring joy to me or hopefully they'll bring joy to other people. But there's things like. Can I get the emotional one? Yeah, I have, we have. I, I'm a bag lady. So it's it. I'm indulging myself with purses and bags and things that say inspirational stuff. And so we have things like that that you'll be able to, the people will be able to buy and dog carriers that look like VW buses. And so I'm playing on the journey, I'm playing on joy and just kind of I'm enjoying that journey. So we'll see once I pull the trigger and actually say store is open, what will happen if anybody will come. But in the meantime, and you guys know about, you know, retail and online stuff, but this is one of the bags. I just love it. Can you read it?

Emotional package. Just kidding. Like it could fit in this bag.

I think that one's funny. And then of course I have this which is just pretty, a simple one rules.

Nice.

We have a lot of jewelry and some, you know, purses. Like Mary Frances, who's an EO member, designed a purse for me. Just a Mary Frances exclusive bag for Joy with the logo on it and everything. So it's fun. It's been fun, kind of. And I'm trying to support entrepreneurs and makers and celebrate them. It's a celebration of all sorts of things. So we'll see how that goes over.

A couple more questions for you. Before we do, I want to remind our listeners that this episode is sponsored by the Bay Area Entrepreneurs Organization known as eo. This is a member led organization and the best place for entrepreneurs to connect, to grow with each other, to learn from and with each other. I've been a member for over 20 years now as a leader, leader, member and, and across several different companies. Our members across the Bay Area are also supported and connected to over 14,000 around the world, giving them access to a world of entrepreneurship. And if you'd like more information about this that obviously we're connected with and have benefited from Greatly, just visit eonetwork.org where you can get information and even apply for membership. So I'll give a link to your book and stuff in just a second. What do you need to work on now? What's the skill that you are working on that you need to develop in order to advance this project? What are you personally leveling up?

Yeah, I think I need to learn a bit about E commerce and marketing and social media. That's one of the things that I've never really liked is the social media aspect. And I'm so impressed when I see strong campaigns that are really meaningful. And I just don't want to put stuff out there just to be putting stuff out there. So I want to be a little strategic and thoughtful about my, any social media that I put out and, and just, you know, be targeted. I like sharing good news and try to celebrate people and things that happen in the world that are really, that bring joy and not misery. And so I think I want to focus on that kind of stuff. But I just, I need to be a little bit more learned about it. And it's a moving target. Boy, I mean, that it changes so fast that you just, you know, there's.

Definitely things to master.

Yeah, exactly.

So Shelby Protocol, shelby scarborough@practicalprotocol.com, shelby Protocol. Shelbypracticalprotocol.com is where you can get more information about Shelby. I want to give special thanks to our producer, Lucy Summers, who's working in the background getting things going, getting our shows scheduled, our guests prepped, and our shows out the door. If you got some value out of it, share it with somebody else. Like it. Subscribe to it. So you can get these shows every week in your inbox. If you go to scalingcoach.com, you can subscribe there and search the downloads and search through all the content and find the links and the references and the tools and the special offers that we talk about with our guests all the time. Scalingcoach.com you can also drop us a note info scalingcoach.com if you'd like some more information or to share some feedback or ask a question. I want to give big thanks also to Vern Harnish, author and creator of Scaling up and the original Rockefeller Habits, founder of the Old Y eo Network, the Young Entrepreneurs Organization. Our audio is edited by Albert Burge at podfly Productions. Our show notes are compiled by Ian Kudina and proofread by Tim McGowan. Thanks again everyone for listening. Keep Scaling Up.

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