Legacy, Loss, and Living With Passion with Elliott Kallen

All right. At the end of the day, what really matters? At the end of our life, what matters? I've been struck by this thing for a long time. At the end of our life, right after our life, there are two things among many, but two things that contrast your eulogy and your obituary. Right? And the obituary talks about what you did, the eulogy talks about who you are for people. Both are interesting. We're going to talk about your legacy and what really matters with Elliot Callen. Hang in there. Hey, everybody, I'm Bill Gallagher, scaling coach and host of the Scaling up podcast. Our show comes here every week, more than 600 and I think 50 now@scalingcoach.com or wherever you're getting this right now. YouTube, LinkedIn, etc. Apple podcast, Spotify, like it, subscribe it, Notify, like get. Don't miss one. Right. You can always skip it if it's not for you, but we've got an awful lot there. And if you'd like to come and do a workshop, put your hand up, say, let's see what you got for me. Let's test it. Start, step up. I know you're ambitious. If you watch, if you listen to this show, you should talk to me, you should reach out. So go to scalingcoach.com join me for a workshop. I will alter the way you think about your business in just a couple of hours. All right, listen, my friend is Elliot Callen and Elliot is founder and CEO of Pro Prosperity Financial Group. We were in a business forum for CEOs some years ago and he's just a huge hearted man who runs a great business, really helps a lot of people. So Prosperity Financial Group is financial management for folks. They help people figure out and create their future for their business. Right. But it's not just about the money, it's about everything that you leave behind. He's also the president, co founder of A Brighter Day charity that he launched after the suicide of his youngest son. And he's a best selling author. He hosts his own show and he runs this charity. So, Elliot, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us today.

Great to be here, Bill. Thanks for having me on.

Yeah. So the growth of your business and the loss of your son were like really closely aligned events in your life. Talk about the contrast to that and tell us the story of, of whatever you think is important for people to know there.

Great. Well, thank you again for having me on. Bill. Let me tell you first about A Brighter day. Excuse me? For Prosperity Financial Group. I beg your pardon?

Okay.

That's company number three that I've started. Now I'm at 5, 3, 4 and 5. I've done. Obviously I'm some form of an entrepreneur, not necessarily a serial entrepreneur. I don't know what exactly that means, but I love entrepreneurship and I love starting things. And I started Prosperity Financial group back almost 30 years ago with a partner and it was time to buy him out. It was time to retire his number, so to speak. He had gone the distance and was done. And so In December of 2014 we signed a five year deal for a million plus taxes billion half dollars basically. And that was the buyout. And three weeks later my youngest son jumped in front of a truck, University of Montana and took his life. And so that little euphoria last was a really short lived program. And then I, I came back to work after burying him in Lafayette, California. And I'm sure every parent can imagine it's a horror story. It's. I don't need to go into every detail of it, but it's a horror story. Identifying your body being hit by a truck and transporting back. And so it's just horror story. And I couldn't even work for the next two months. I stare at my computer screen because that was my screensaver. My kids, I had two other kids and like you, you're a father, you can't even imagine it, it wipes you out. No one can. No one should either. So it's not meant to make anybody else cry, but I just had to deal with this. And so we went on this journey and I realized I needed to sink into work, but I also needed to do something not in memory of my son, but to prevent other families from going through this tragedy again. We wanted to prevent teen suicide and since I'm a charitably inclined person anyway, we started now business number five, a foundation called A Brighter Day or abriderday.info which creates resources on stress and depression and now it's touching 3,000 families a month. So we here, we have $500 million on individual wealth, $500 million from another company I own on individual wealth and a foundation, I don't think, I think 40 hours a week is a part time job.

I know you're a hard working guy. He's like, I gotta get in the office. I'm like elliot, let's have breakfast or something sometime. He's like nah, it has to be before, like I don't know, whatever, like a too early time for me. I'm like let's just meet at 9.

I get up, at 4:45 I go to the gym. It's the only time I can work out. I'm in my office by 7:30 and I try not to be the last one to leave. But invariably, once or twice a week I'm out of here at 5:30, 6 o'. Clock. These are long days. But I'm still not accomplishing everything I want to do. And I'm trying to start a new business coming up for 2026. So that plate is always full and I love it.

You know, I don't want to brush over to the. You say you can't think about it, you don't want to think about it. It's unimaginable, Right. The most horrifying thing is to think about losing. And you're like, I don't want to make people cry. And I'm like, it's okay if people cry a little bit. Like look what you cry about if, if you're touched by this thing is your love for your own child or for a parent or for someone. Right. The idea of losing someone you love, the thing that's there for you is the love. And that's okay. Like it's okay to be emotional about that, Right. And it's okay to let that propel you into saying no, this shouldn't happen to anyone else or I want to support that charity, I want to take a part of that because I know someone who it happened to because I know someone else because it almost happened to me because it had like we've all, we've, we, we felt it, right? Because I have a friend like you who it happened to because someone, somewhere like reach out. So we'll just put it up there again. A brighter day.info as the Wanda if you'd throw it. Yeah. And we'll put it in the show notes a couple times and at the end, right. It's so, so important. And look, I, let's say they just prevent one.

It's amazing. Let me, let me tell you something we do that I'm really excited about.

Yeah, yeah.

Just, I mean, obviously we're touching a lot of families every month. We created a teen. We know that teens don't read our website. We get it. They're not readers. They've got 20 second tick tock attention spans. That's just the reality of it. I didn't create that. I'm sure you've had psychologists on here, business psychologists, they could talk about that all day because it's bigger than the Two of us.

Yeah.

What we did is we know that teens love their phones, they love texting, that every truth that they know is on their telephone or it doesn't, or it's not true to them. It's what they do. And we created a teen crisis texting hotline that 24, 7, all 50 states announced in three countries, all 50 states, basically they could text and in under about a minute they will have someone text back to them and they can have a texting conversation for the next 45 minutes, hang up, do it again all day, middle of the night, Christmas Eve, January 1st, their birthday, whatever, the day that they're falling apart. And we, we did that because we wanted teens to talk. Well, we've had, we get about 50 to 150 new teens every single month that use that texting crisis hotline and a five minutes bill. They ask the same question. All of them. Am I the only one feeling this way? They're totally isolated. You could blame it on social media, you can blame it on poor parenting, you can blame it on too much homework, you can blame it on, we keep our kids too active, whatever you want to use as excuse, because they're all valid reason, all of them are. But the fact is, is we have created an environment of isolation of our teens with a social, a break in social, the social fabric that if we don't figure it out, it's going to get worse.

You know, the fascinating thing to me, as you say, that is one, I know it's true, but I also know that we're never more connected. Right. When I was growing up, we're like, where's the parties at? We don't know. We heard a rumor from somebody and we drive around in the hills till we saw some cars and we'd look and see if we saw some young kids. And we're like, okay, that's where the party's at. We didn't know where everybody was and what they were doing and said because we hadn't talked to them. And, and phones were associated with locations, not people. So you couldn't text anybody, you couldn't find their location. You couldn't. Like you had no idea what was going on anywhere all the time. And you were just guessing and driving around in the dark, right? And, and now we're more connected than ever. And yet people feel alone. Why is that? What is that all about? And people are like, oh, I'm going to keep texting this thing, call them, talk to them.

Yeah, they can't do that here a.

Thing like, and you say, no, I can't do that. Like, oh, I can't.

Like, whatever.

Just go talk to people. Pick up the phone, go to voice.

Well, you're right. They should talk to them. But here's an interesting statistic I give to people or an interesting factoid on that. A statistic. Imagine this. We have the loneliest, most isolated generation in history in the United States. There are a lot of psychologists that would agree on that. So I don't. It's not my idea. Once you think about the 1930s, being a late teen in the 1930s, the greatest depression the US most of the world had ever seen up until that point, right? 25% unemployment. Japan was on the march in and taking over countries like the Philippines and eastern, Eastern China. They were on. We were about. They were getting, Having conversations about Pearl harbor, you know, that the Germans were getting ready for war and what they were going to do in Poland and Czechoslovakia. The 50 million people were going to die in the next six, seven years around the world because of World War II. And we have a lonelier, more unhappy generation that knows young kids. And that's hard to imagine, but we've done it. We've managed to do it and pull out all the stops until. To create poor communications.

You know, I told a family member recently, I said, I said, what will make a big difference for you in going through a challenge is for you to take a walk. And I'm going to show you. Let's go take a walk. Here's how to take your walk. And I, and I took him out for a walk and I. And I taught him to be aware. Like, get out of your head now. Look around you. Smell the air, feel the breeze on your face. Look up in the trees. Notice that bird. Watch the people go by. Like, open yourself up and be connected to. And then I took him into a clump of trees and I had him look up into the thing. And I said, allow yourself to be awed by what you see there, right? Like, what's going on up there. And I had him, like, alter his perspective. Because what we do is we go in our own brain and our, Our thoughts start to cycle up and we have that internal conversation, the internal voice that is running in our head at every moment. Right. If you're listening now, you got that. It's the voice that just said, what voice? Right? And that voice is often not on your side, Right? That voice is telling you to be more afraid, to worry that people don't love you, that you're not good enough. Like that voice is, if you're in a bad way, that voice isn't helping. So if that voice isn't helping, talk to somebody else, get out of your head, like open up your eyes, get, talk to somebody else, text the thing, call a friend, walk outside. Right? That makes the difference. I know after, after September 11th, right? It's like ancient history now, right? I remember like being like, oh my God, everything just changed. We watched the towers get hit on TV and that kind of thing. Thousands of people killed and in, in a matter of very short amount of time. And, and I, I, I remember the coming days. I looked outside and I'm like, the trees are still growing, the sun is still rising. You know, the tide goes in, the tide goes out. Like life didn't end, just some events happened. It's going to have an impact on us. Profound, but like to something other than that crazy thing that's going on inside your head, right?

Well, you're 100% correct. And how to translate that to teens is a challenge. If you think about parents, so many single parents have no time. They've got one or two jobs, they're just trying to get through the day. The idea of taking a walk, turning off the cell phones, taking your earbuds out, sitting down for dinner for an hour just to have conversations the good old fashioned way. Cell phone free, so important to do. That's what we teach. And it's hard to do.

You know, you, you look at like you open your cell phone and you flick through videos and reels and TikTok this and that and whatever, like YouTube shorts and everything, like these little bites and everybody that you flick past, you flick past so many people who are more attractive than you, who are appear happier, appear more confident, appear richer than you. They've got a better car, they're on a private jet. Like it's all just crap and, and, and there you can flick through it and be amused and be entertained and come from a different place. Right. It's not inherently, but it's very, it's too easy to look at all that and just feel like you are worthless. Right?

Like you don't, you're 100% right. But it's not some, you know, your thoughts are not getting shared very easily with teens. And I have to tell you, my teens came home, it was their, their, my twins freshman year and my youngest guy senior year in high school and they were home and they said, this is the world of heavy duty Facebook. And they weren't even on Shorter things. We still Facebook. And they said, dad, are we the only people in Lafayette that don't go to Tahoe or Hawaii for Christmas vacation? Yes, that's what it felt like.

I've taken my kids to Tahoe. You're a bad dad.

Thank you.

So. But not enough, right? Like not enough. Did I take them? Did you take them? You know, like it is, it is remarkable that a certain amount of money can help you deal with life. But it isn't the only way to solve a problem. You can have a lot of money and you can live in a nice house and you can be miserable and you can be happy and you can hate your spouse and hate your friends or feel unloved and unappreciated and unseen. Right. All of those things can happen. Teens have this thing and they get in a whole weird place somewhere around middle school often and then they close the door and, and then they retreat into their own thinking and they flick through things that leave them feeling even worse about themselves. Right. And, and I know we have listeners right now. My kids are grown and they're through that, that little moment, but they both had it.

Well, I want you. Once you think of a teen's life as kind of a box, it's six sided box, it's got four walls, a top and a bottom. And you have the same box, Bill. And that box is generally for you, because I know you, is generally the color green or blue, whatever means go or positive for you. That's how you view the box. But for somebody that's feeling really bad about themselves, that box is turning gray and then it's turning black on the inside. And so if all 46 walls eventually turn black.

Yeah.

Then the team begins to reconcile because they've already withdrawn socially in this process. And they begin to say, well, life sucks. Yesterday was bad, today was really bad. Tomorrow is hard, could be horrible. No one's going to miss me anyway. And there it is. That's the suicide part. No one's going to miss me anyway. It sucks. I'm probably running other people's lives. And that's for suicide. That's suicide. What we've got to do and what we do as a charity and what we have to do as society is get that box. Not that needs to be green all the time or blue, whatever you see as positive. But to know that the colors change throughout the day. There are moments, Bill, and if you think about you've had kids and marriage, you're still married, that your marriage sometimes is not really very Blue or green, it's very gray. And you're not in a good space with each other. And sometimes that leads to divorce and sometimes that leads to something where you need to reinspire, reinvigorated, re engage to get it back to a green or blue color, whatever that is.

Yeah.

Teens can't reconcile that. You can because of life experience. Not just maturity, but life experience has taught you that you have good days and bad days and that sometimes after a good day is a crappy day, sometimes after a crappy day is a spectacular day. You just got to hang in there for both.

Well, I know that when I'm feeling really great that it, it won't last forever. So I really want to enjoy it. And I know that when I'm really dark, I know also this won't last forever. So I want to, I want to make sure I don't dwell in it. Right. I keep like somebody who is it said. I forget now who the quote is. If you're going through hell, keep going.

Yeah, but you're dealing with, you're dealing with scaling up with CEOs primarily and CEOs that doesn't mean you have successful children, but you could because they have money and access. There's more suicide in the United States of teens who come from wealthy families than come from poor families. Which means that, and that's the key that you should think about means that Danville, California has and Campbell and you know, Stanford area, Atherton, and that whole area has a higher suicide rate than Richmond in Oakland, per capita and per person.

Well, and also like a past guest of the show, former vice chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff was on lost a son to a drug overdose. Right. The son had a habit he couldn't kick like he was not a well kid. And they did all kinds of things to help him. Very accomplished, you know, money, education, like good environment and you know, he didn't live. So like the having access to that can create incredible pressure. I know in my own family people have been like that. I had a dear friend who was very successful in his career, very accomplished. And then his area of a business failed and he lost his job with a very large, well known national company. And he put a gun in his mouth and he tried to kill himself. And he lived. And it was incredibly traumatic for the family. And he went through years of reconstruction and that kind of thing and then talking about it. Right. Depression and suicide became his life's work since then. But watching somebody get choose their identity. My own father was highly successful Spoke, you know, more than a dozen languages, was a best selling author, was a college professor and.

Yeah.

And became a dysfunctional alcoholic and he took his own life. Like, there you go.

So there's an example, Bill, just to keep you together here, it's, it's hard, but the money, the languages with your dad, the money and some of these incredible CEOs that you deal with in your job, your business. And you've got maybe one of the most successful scaling up companies there.

Yeah.

That's not everything.

Yeah.

And that's what you learned the very hard way and your dad learned the worst possible way, is that there's more to life. And you know, and my business, Prosperity, Financial, we talk about that all the time to people going into retirement or going near retirement is what really matters to you. And if your family really matters to you more than your job, more than the money, then let's get that as a focus.

Yes. And so let's talk about. Yeah, go dive into that. So you've had conversations with clients at the end and near the end of their life and that kind of thing. What actually matters? Do you say? What have you learned about this?

Yeah. So I think a good example of what matters here is the conversation and a real story of what I did with my wife. So with my wife, I'm on marriage number two. So we're a blended family. I have two surviving children. She has two surviving children. One lives with us with her son who's now live with us for 10 straight years, he's 12. The other one doesn't live far away, has an autistic child. And my kids are around the world. And so we sat down and we said, let's talk about what's important, important to us. What do we love and what do we like and what are we willing to give up if need be. And so, and I put, I try to put my clients through this exercise. So we take the material side of things. What do we love? Well, we love travel, food, wine and entertainment. Cooking it, collecting it. I've got a thousand mile of wine room. I travel around the world taking cooking lessons. I'm trying to improve. I'm married to my biggest critic. She's really hard on me with food to make sure I get it right, which is okay. Sometimes it's a little hard, but we work on it. Now we're starting a new business that involves that too, that we love those things we love. We play golf, we talk about it. I like golf. I'm not a lover of golf. I Like golf. I kind of suck at golf too, but I like golf. I could give it up if I had to. We like going to the gym, but if we could go to the gym and we took walks every day and that was the only way to do this, we could survive and doing that. And then what do we want to do with our family? We have a 12 year old that lives with us where I'm his legal guardian and he's been with us for 10 years. And we just made a decision that we are going to allow he and his mom. I love having him. It's the mom, it's the adult house that's tough. We're going to let them stay till they graduate, till he goes off to college at six more years instead of fighting about it because we love having him there and we want to do the right thing. But the day after he goes to college, she needs to move out, mom needs to move out. That's not a love situation. Even though I love her, I don't love the situation. We talked about that on there and that's. Those are some things we're in control of. But the average retiree in this country watches four to six hours a day of television. And this morning I was watching some TV network, probably it was. Or probably early morning Fox and I had somebody on with Maria Bartiromo and she had somebody on who's an expert on social media and said the average retiree watches 6.1 hours a day of TV. That was a new number I never heard before. 6.1. That means that people are born in retirement and so you can only see family so much without being overbearing. But you could stay in their lives, you could travel and bring that to your family and travel, invite them to travel occasion with you, knowing that our generation probably has to pay for it if that's available to them. Because that's certainly what your kids like to travel with you if you pay for it and things like that. But it's so important that you have a life that is admirable and that your next generation looks up to and says, I want to be part of that instead of you going down saying, how can I be part of you? It's a little bit, a little different way of looking at it.

I think, thinking about what you enjoy, right? What you love, what matters to you, right. Like I, I love to cook and I like the. Just the act of cooking is very calming. I love to do it. At the end of the day, it's a thing to like decompress to, to separate the. The end of the day, the personal side from the work side, to put an end to it. But even more than that, I love when the family gathers and I love when my family, who is ever here, is seated around the table or sitting out on the deck and having a meal together. I also love if we just go to a restaurant together. Right. I love connecting family and, and food is such a fantastic way to connect, whether you go out to eat or whether you made it yourself. Like, they're both powerful opportunities to connect. Right.

I wish we had a weekly family dinner where everyone wasn't so scattered away, but I can't seem to pull that off. But I'm with you. Same page. I love to cook. I love to try new things. Now I've been working for the last couple years on my plating as an example to make it attractive to get artsy with my plating. I've got a thousand bottle of wine room. So it's about pairing the right wine with what I'm plating. It's very cool what we're doing. And now when we go on vacation to a lot of places, we take cooking classes and then we make it one. Okay, what, what can we go in there? We tell them what we can eat. Allergic to and all that stuff. And now it's so much so everybody accepts the fact that you don't eat everything. You know, I, I go in there and say, I don't. I don't eat pork as an example. Nobody's offended by that anymore. Used to. We're in a world where they ask you up front, what do you like, what you, what you can't you do. But getting people together, that's great. I'm good to see my son in. I wanted to go see him. He's in Washington D.C. i said, I want to come out there. He said, no, let's go to Charleston and meet there. That's an example, what you want to do. And my daughter just moved to the Amsterdam, outside of Amsterdam. And we're going in for 14 days, a little side trip on London. But we're going there because we want them to be part of this. So that's a really important thing, I.

Think, figuring out what those things are, the shared experiences and that, like those are specific experiences. And then there's what you're building in your business and what stays behind you. And then there's the quality or the characteristic. Who do you want to be and how do you want to be remembered by that family? I think that's really important. Right. I think super motivating and clarifying to me and for a lot of the CEOs that I and senior execs that I work with, is this question like, okay, and after you're a successful life, right, after you've lived a full, long life, lived however long you wanted, what. Who. Who will be gathered around, right. Who do you want to remember you and what do you want them to say? And I think that is a fundamental kind of thing. I want them to say I was the life of the party. I want them to say I made everyone laugh. I want them to say that I made everything beautiful. I want them to say that. Whatever. What do you want them to say about you? That's the quality of you as a human being that you can bring into your work, to your family, to like your relationship, like everything. Right.

That's your legacy planning. We do that as part of our job. We're constantly talking about your legacy. Legacy doesn't mean I'm going to give money to charity all by itself. That's a good thing to do or start a foundation or start. That's. Those are really good things. But legacy has a lot to do with your children. How do you want them to remember you? I don't think my father and mother ever thought about that at all. Even though I remember them incredibly fondly. I have great memories of both of them, but I don't think they did that consciously. Yeah, but my dad, because I did have my mom in high school, most of high school, my dad intuitively asked me great questions, and that got me more involved into a leadership position with a youth group that changed my life around in high school completely. Not that I was a degenerate, but I was like a lion in a cage, not knowing which direction to go. He got me focused into that. And then sports help, but without having formal training and never getting beyond eighth grade and no parental things. A part of the Great Depression. He knew the right questions to ask. And we try to educate on a charity and in our business ask better questions to get better answers. I don't know all the questions they ask, but I know if I was talking to you, Bill, and you're an avid outdoors guy, windsurfing, airfoil, surfing, blow dryer surfing. Whatever you do out there in the water, it's amazing what you do.

Wing foil, we call it.

Yeah, whatever. It looks like a big blow dryer. Looks like. Yeah, blow dryer, surf, whatever it is that's so important to you. I would ask you, if I was talking about your legacy, is are you doing this for you because it's pure enjoyment and that's not a bad thing, or are you doing this because you're hoping to pass down to the next generation that it's okay to be a little bit of a risk taker and an outdoors person and enjoy life and bring your family in on that with me, because I think it's a lot of fun and you do it on your terms, not on my terms.

So I've taken my kids on sailing trips. We've done a lot of family sailing trips. I've taken them to try and learn surfing, and I've offered to take them to do the wing foil surfing. But it's like, I don't need them to get that. What I need them to see, like, the example that I want to set is to just follow your bliss, follow your thing. Like, be so, like be outside, I think is probably important to lots of us more than we realize and finding excuses. And play, like, play be outside. Follow your bliss. Do what lights you up. Find your flow. That's like a key thing that I, you know, that I would. We've also taught our kids to enjoy coming together. We've always hosted family events. So be a host. Be a great thing to create family events. We have a family dinner in the spring, and we have the holidays in the fall. And we have, you know, when people gather at our house, we have. When the kids were young, we had a Friday night dinner always. And then we would have a Sunday afternoon barbecue. These are regular kinds of traditions. And now, now that I have a granddaughter and, and the last two years in particular, we've. We've brought back the Friday night dinner. And so we have this Friday night dinner. We light candles and we're together. And it's like really, really important to create these moments of connection.

You know, I think what you're talking about, Bill, the word that I like to see you use because you exude every part of that is your legacy with your children is live with passion.

Yeah, yeah.

It's a great legacy. When you think about that. Most people go through life with a job or a career, but they're not very passionate about life. I mean, you love your children. Sometimes you don't like your children, but you'll always love your children. My mother taught me that lesson.

They annoy you, but you love them.

But my children will tell you, my father is the most passionate person I know. No, because he lives life believing in what he does and does it because he believes back and forth all the time. Charity, business, interpersonal relationships, friendships, loyalty. Sometimes I feel like a mafia don because I feel like I'm watching Blacklist when he says, above all, value loyalty. And so I put friendships and loyalty and business loyalty and passions all together. And that's a great way to live your life. In it, you know, when you're teaching what you do, which is, you know, scaling up your business with large companies and get big. Wow. Imagine that CEO wakes up tomorrow, changes his life around and realizes I'm building one heck of a business and I'm going to do better because of Bill. And now I'm reconnecting my family because of the passion that Bill is teaching me.

You know, it's interesting passion, being playful, going for it. These are definitely things that are like example and things that I want to pass, not just to my friends and family, but to clients and so on. And I, next week I go away for a month retreat to write. And I have done several attempts to write and put out a book, and none of which I ended up putting out, one of which I actually sold and then didn't finish is. And then. And now several attempts at this. And I've been thinking for a long time about what is it that I need to say? And I, I've kind of settled on this, that like, you could actually have a great life, and having a great life, a life of balance, could actually make your business better. That if you lived more playfully, didn't work so hard, didn't lean in so much, like, loosely, you would have a stronger team, you could have a better business, you'd have better strategic thinking.

And.

And so that's what I'm finally going away to write about it and thought about it until you said it in that way, like, okay, so I want people to say, I want my, my family and my friends to gather and to say that I was a contribution, that I was generous, that I made a difference for them. That's what I want them to say. But the example that I want to lead, I think is also important, and that's being playful, being going for it and that kind of thing. My daughter gave me a really thoughtful gift this last holiday season. She made a calendar of me. She took various images of me, and then she played with them with AI and some things like that. And she put me in all these funny situations. And it was the most touching thing that I've had in, in many years. And I laughed and cried as I flipped through the 12 months of this, you know, calendar with pictures of me because they were all so silly. But I love that who I was for her was playful and silly enough that she could make that. And I would appreciate that.

You're doing great with that. I'll give you a hint on book books because I have an Amazon bestseller over my left shoulder called Driven, is that I hired a woman in Texas, somewhere outside of Houston, and she became my, my editor. And she would, we would once a week, usually a Sunday morning or Saturday morning, I come in my office, I work for two and a half to three hours. Every Saturday morning for one year. I would either dictate the book or I would write the book. And she would take my dictation, put it out there, send it back to me. I'd have to reread it, realized I didn't like any of it or I like two thirds of it or whatever. There's a lot of stuff I wrote that I didn't like. And I thought, wow, you are just rambling into insanity here, you know, and, but that editor thing, working with me, saying, no, Elliot, you told me to be here 9:00 clock Sunday, California time. What time are you going to be there? And I said, six o', clock, nine o' clock your time, eight o' clock your time, excuse me. And we'd write for three, four hours. And then I learned that, wow, I can be really unorganized. But what she did is she taught that, taught me that writing is a business. So you have to have the discipline just as you have the discipline and scaling up is the same discipline.

Well, I'll be telling the story of some CEOs that I admire and learn from. Not perfect, but, but did interesting things and some others that I think were kind of a disaster. And I'll be telling the story of at least five, I don't know, maybe a few more of CEOs and what they did in their company and then, and then kind of the process that lets you shift into the more admirable one and that, that's the, the intended story of the book. I, I, I will definitely need to find soon a new editor, but I'm going to get all the core stories done and the, the basics of the thing done in this month long retreat. And I'll do a little bit of writing every day and make sure your.

Editor knows how their publisher knows how to market the book. Since that was one of the mistakes that we had is we had a publisher that wasn't comfortable in marketing. And so we had to, we Took it over. And I'm not a public. I'm not a book marketing person, so it's. It. We could have had a lot more sold and, and things like that.

I think people that know that world and, and I have often thought I would go with a traditional publisher, but I'm not sure. I may just self publish this time and, and then hire a good marketing partner for it.

I love that that's the right way to do it. You've got a lot to offer. Promise me that you'll put me as a footnote on page 267 or something like that.

267. I like the specificity of where that footnote's gonna go. Well, what. So what do you. What like. So what is your. There's what you love. Right. There's who you are when you're. How does this, like the family focus, the financial thing, pull it together for me in your world. Maybe it ties into Driven.

Well, Driven is the book just. Just to tell you something about Driven by Elliot Callen. It's. It's on Amazon. You can't just say driven. I couldn't patent the word driven. Too many driven. So Driven by Elliot Callum. I wanted to write a book about my life. It's not really an autobiography about the journeys of success and entrepreneurship because too many entrepreneurs in today's world think they're the next Mark Zuckerberg, that they're going to start a company and five years later they're going to sell it or take it public and they're going to become a billionaire. And most entrepreneurial journeys, including mine, are anything but that. We have zigzags in our life. We go backwards, we go forward. I've had tragedy. A lot of families have a tragedy. Their spouse died, their parents died of a horrible cancer. There's a lot of tragedy out there in there. Yeah. And so I wanted to write a book. Giving acceptance and acknowledgement that life is not a straight line. That was my goal of writing that book. And we have. It's not overly long. It's three and a half hours to read it. Amazon actually was one of our co publishers on that and it seemed. I think you could buy for 99 cents the verbal version of it, the audiobook. I don't know, I. I don't see any of that money. That all goes to charity. All of it goes to a brighter day charity. But 99 cents? How come. How much does your charity make up? 99 cents after Amazon is done? I have no idea. But we put that out there on there for the business side of it. The funny part about this is what it did and what we talked about is again, asking better questions. And if you're a family centric person, and not everybody is, no matter what they say, but if you're family centric, and you are, Bill, that means that you have to be more than just verbally family centric and you don't have to necessarily be the patriarch of your family. That's, that's a personality thing that doesn't work for everybody. But you have to be an evolved person in your family. And sometimes that means that that's biting your tongue because I can't say that or that's sharing my opinion in the right way at the right time. Like if I was your father and I saw you on the blow dryer, like I said, on this foil thing on the water, and I see you on a bay and I find this to be a little bit disturbing because you could fall 15ft on your head into a shallow bay. I'm making that up because these things happen, you know, that I might want to say to you, Bill, is there any way you could either be more self. Create more self preservation, maybe not go up so high because I'm worried about you cracking your skull open in a bay? You know, you can't just say that because in your case, Bill, you'd be really defensive. Well, dad, you know, I love that and this is what I do. And you know, come on, you have to say it in a better way. And that means you might, it's a bit, bite your tongue at one point to say, you know, Bill, one of the concerns I have is about such and such, but the timing of that is so important. And that's what you do as a parent and a family centric person is be the biggest cheerleader for your family, the biggest supporter of your family that you need to be. But timing is important because kids are defensive when you just attack them for what they're doing. So you need to bite that. You've been married a long time, Bill. I've been with my wife for 20 years, second marriage. Now if I just go home tonight and said, you know, honey, you are the biggest crank at five in the morning I've ever met in my life. You know how that's going to go over. I don't even know how. You don't even know my wife that well. And you know how that would go over. And everybody, listen to us would know how that goes over. But if we were out to Dinner. I said, you know, sweetie, is there any way that you can work on when I get you up too early? And I know, I know I shouldn't do that to put the TV on at 5 in the morning, but when I do, is there any way you could cuddle in so we can wake up in a better mood? That would go over so much better if I pick the right time and the right place to say that.

Oh, you know, that like segues into so many things there. That, that's such a, that's such a vivid picture about it. I, I've learned a couple things around that. So my wife and I used to argue about the TV a great deal. And until I learned the ideas that are embodied in Mark Goldston's book Just Listen and, and, and we teach it and we use it in our work with CEOs and that kind of thing. But it basically says get over in the perspective and the brain of the other person. What's it like to be them? Right. And so my wife and my argument about the tv, there was no timing, there was no. It always went nuclear whenever we talked about it until I thought about what's it like to be her. Living with me, dealing with the tv.

Yeah, and you're probably like me. Most entrepreneurs, we don't sleep much past 3:34 in the morning. It's just, it's horrible sleep patterns. Which means when you're bored, what do you do? You put the TV on. You could go to the other room and put the TV on and never think, you'll never go back to sleep. Or you just roll over and grab the remote, keep it low. But you know, I've gone through that with my wife. We have constant conversations about what happens. It's sometimes at 4 in the morning or 2:30 in the morning with the TV, it's hard.

I think thinking about what it's like for them is definitely a pathway to something. And then asking yourself whatever you think you need to say, is it true? Does it need to be said? Does it need to be said by you? Does it need to be said now? Like, it's useful to ask those things that you alluded to there a lot of times, like, it all comes down to like advice, opinion, and what you're not sharing is your fear. You know, if you said to me, using your original example, God, every time I see you out there, it looks intense and I, I just am so worried. I love you so much. I'm worried something will happen to you and then you let me deal with that. That would be different than you telling me, would you please wear your helmet? Right. Like. Like a grandmother or somebody would do. Like, would you please. Like, I do wear a helmet. Right. And. And the sport I do is pretty dangerous, right? You can. I've cut myself before. The things we ride on are very sharp. These little hydrofoil wings that ride into the water. Very sharp. It's dangerous. It's for sure. Like, my wife's like, oh, yeah, you could kill yourself out there. I worry that you'll get a call or you'll kill her or even worse than kill yourself, because, you know, then we. We'd miss you and we'd love you, but we'd honor your legacy. But I worry that, like, you'd. You become an invalid of some kind, and then I'd have to take care of you for the next 20 years.

Well, you buy a bigger disability policy or a life insurance. See, and then you've known that. But I. It's. It's not just when you say it, it's how you say it. And you're right. It's. It's all. I don't want to sound like your grandmother. I want to sound like your father.

Yes.

Or your friend on how I'm saying it. So the timing of it is so important, you know, and it.

Yeah.

I mean, you're 100, right.

Talking about you than them. Like, I'm worried about this. I'm afraid of this. I love you. Like, that's different than, here's what I want you to do, like, advice or like, pleading and that kind of thing.

I try to ask my children, like, questions. So my daughter, two months ago, moved to Amsterdam. She uprooted her family, got sick of the United States, love socialism, moved to a socialist country. High quality of life compared with the U.S. that's the Netherlands.

Yeah.

I have a million questions for her. And I. I have been a cheerleader, even though I fundamentally disagree with probably 98 of what she says. I have a fundamental need to be her cheerleader, and I want to see my grandchildren. So when I have something, I bring up to her about her marriage or under how to make more friends or I. I find the right time and I just ask a question about it, you know, like, how would your life change if you had a couple more young moms? That's the case.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, there's a lot of gold here on the show. We've talked for a long time now, so we should probably wrap it up. But his book is Driven. Driven. What say the full title Driven by Elliot Cowan. My name Driven by Elliot Callen. Right. So the full thing and you can find that on Amazon $0.99 reportedly.

And.

I think there's a lot of stuff in there, both his story and the example of all the people. So his company Prosperity Financial Group, we'll put that in the show notes and on the screen there as well helps people to build their portfolio and manage that so that the financial side of legacy is addressed. And as you can hear from Elliot, he takes a much bigger picture. Not just what do the numbers say but what do you actually care about in life and then also a brighter day.info is the charity that helps to prevent teen suicide and if they can prevent even one more by adding your little effort donation like participation in one of his events or that kind of thing, that would make a difference at sharing that and expanding what they do there. Elliot, thank you so much for joining us on the show today and sharing some of your stories and your wisdom with us.

Bill, thanks for having me. Great to be here.

Thanks to Anna and to Wanda for getting our show produced in and out of every week. Thanks to my friend and mentor Vern Harnish who created the whole scaling up framework that's at the base of my business. And to all of you listening, watching, thank you again for tuning in. Until next week, Keep Scaling Foreign.

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