Making A Difference With Your Mindset with Guy Kawasaki

Are you thinking about how to grow your business with near and offshore staffing, but you're also wanting to make sure that it's reliable, cost effective and really well done? I think docsa talent is the way to go. Here's why. They don't just fill your jobs. They bring integrity, top talent, and a people first approach that's hard to find. I've known the people at Doxa talent for over 20 years now and I say that you can count on them. I have. Talk to Docs of Talent and you won't be disappointed. Go to docsatant.com Bill G. Again, that's doxatant.com Bill G. One more time. Doxatalent.com Bill G. Check it out today. Oh, so we're talking about really the kind of mindset that produces remarkable people, remarkable companies. That's, you know, we've got a great guest with a great story. If you're watching on camera, you already know who it is. Maybe. But this is a great topic, great conversation. How do you shift your mindset? How do you adopt that kind of thing? What is common to really remarkable people? We're getting into all that and more in just a minute. My name is Bill Gallagher, host of the Scaling Up Business podcast. Our show comes to you every week and we've done more than 500 shows now on all the things to do with growing and scaling your company. We what are the stages that are common to all companies as they scale? How do you move from one to another? We've got monthly workshops, we've got coaching programs, got all kinds of things plus these 500 episodes and more@scalingcoach.com that's where you'll find all that. So go there, check it out. Scaling coach.com all right, listen, my guest today, we first Met actually about 30 years ago through a mutual friend, Jay Levinson, who had a book series called Guerrilla Marketing. And we were doing some kind of project with Houghton Mifflin at the time. And then he had garage.com and he did all kinds of interesting things along the way. And then about 10 years ago as I went to be a full time coach, we shared the stage. He was the opening keynote for a conference in San Francisco. And then I was like the third day speaker about it. But that talk and his talk was the best of the series and but mine actually launched my whole career and like I got huge bookings after that talk. So I've had a lot of good luck being around Guy Kawasaki. We haven't talked in a Long time. But, Guy, welcome to the show.

Thank you very much. You're my good luck charm.

And it turns out we spent some time growing up at the same place. I spent nine years on Oahu, and we went to different schools, but. But we both came from the same place, and we both share a love of surfing today. We'll both be out on the water later today in different parts of Northern California. So that's fantastic to have you on and connect again here.

Yeah. Oh, so happy to be here. Even though I, you know, I seldom accept invitations from Punahou graduates.

Don't hold it against me.

Yeah. Barack Obama wanted me. I said, you know, Barack. I don't think so. Not yet.

So some other things for people that don't know that have been living under a rock. Guy was chief evangelist for Apple. He worked with a guy that you may have heard of named Steve Jobs. He worked on a computer called the Macintosh way back, once upon a time. He's now evangelist for a company called Canva that also maybe you heard of. So he's done some remarkable things over time, advised and been involved in many companies, written so many books on it. He's been the host of a show, show Remarkable People show now and interviewed scads. I should know the number. But a bajillion Remarkable people and doing that and learned some things along the way. And so he's got this book out, think remarkable nine paths to transform your life and make a difference. So welcome to Show Guy.

Oh, thank you very much. Yes. Glad to be here after all these.

Different books and things like that.

Why.

Why write this one? Why is this so important to do? Why did you create the show the way that you, you know, like, I.

Got a big advance.

Contractual obligation.

No, listen, so I've had this Remarkable people podcast for five years. So now I have, you know, 250 episodes, 5,000 pages of transcripts, and that's just too much for anybody, you know, who really wanted to catch up. And I have had truly remarkable guests, you know, far beyond me, like Jane Goodall, Neil Degrasse Tyson, Steve Wozniak, Angela Duckworth, Margaret Atwood, Stacy Abrams, Ronnie Lott, Christy Yamaguchi, Andrew Zimmern. I could go on and on, and they gave me a lot of information and inspiration, so I wanted to capture that and get it out to the rest of the world.

Yeah, it's really great. And like, taking these ideas which are universal and come through people and then share them in multiple forms and. And get them from something that's sort of ephemeral and fleeting, like a podcast and go to a book, which feels more enduring and is. Is a great thing. Talk to us about what is this idea of the growth mindset and how does that relate to the show?

Yeah. So first, let me give credit where credit is due. The mother of the growth mindset is Carol Dweck. She's a professor of psych, Stanford. And she came up with this dichotomy that, you know, you can have two different kinds of mindsets. One is a growth mindset where you believe you can learn new skills and try new things and succeed. And I took up ice hockey at 44. I took up surfing at 60. The fixed mindset would say, you know, I cannot learn this. It's too hard. Or also, there's the fixed mindset where I am so good, I cannot improve.

Right.

That's also a kind of fixed mindset. And I noticed after interviewing hundreds of people, the remarkable people, people who have made a difference, they all have a growth mindset. You don't get to be remarkable if you don't have a growth mindset.

Yeah. So why don't we talk about that more in detail? I. I was probably about 5 or 6 years old in near Hawaii Kai, and my dad put me on a surfboard, a nice long board, and shoved me into the thing and said.

Wish my father had done that. You know, I, I started surfing 55 years later than you did.

Yeah. So how did that go? What was that like? And, and how has that impacted your life?

I. I started with paddle surfing, and then I got humiliated into going into prone surfing. And I. My daughter took it up in a big way. And I, I have had a family practice of. I embrace the hobbies, kids, rather than vice versa. So when my two sons took up hockey, I took up hockey. When my daughter took up surfing, I took up surfing, and I loved it. And now I gave up hockey to focus only on surfing. In fact, we moved to the coast so that we could be closer to the water. And I. I'll tell you something. If I had surfed when I was living in Hawaii when I was a young kid, I would not be where I am today because I would be a surf bomb. I pretty much, I'd be working at Waikiki beach and I'll be renting surfboards to tourists. That's what I would be doing right now.

It's a good life, and there's something beautiful about it. You know, I think a lot of times we switch through things. I surfed longboards, and short boards and stuff as a kid. And I started doing this thing called wing surfing here, which has a steep learning curve because it was closer and easier. What do I have close to where I live in the East Bay is we have the Central Bay, and it has wind. And I saw a buddy of mine, actually, from my business group, he's a CEO of a paddle company, and he started getting into wing surfing. This was 2020, and I'm like, I need a sport because everybody's at home and I got to get out on the water. And so I, I started the wing surfing then. And you got, you got surfing, then you've got a wing, and then you're riding a foil. And that's a lot of pieces to try to coordinate.

Surfing is hard enough. I cannot handle wind and foil. That's not, not, not. You know, one of my sons took up foiling and, you know, windsurfing, and he also took up, what do you call that thing where you, you put on a wing and you, you know, wing suiting. Right. You're like a squirrel, right?

Oh, we did that. I'd love to do that. Yeah.

That's where I draw the line in taking up what my kids take up. Because when I die and my, my funeral, I want to look good. I don't want to be all crushed.

I want to still be handsome for the open casket. Yeah. I sort of feel like I'd rather be injured than atrophied. Yeah.

Well, I gotta tell you, like, I'm, I'm 70 years old, and if, I bet you, if my high school classmates, right, I bet if they play golf once or twice a year, they think, oh, they're active, you know, Otherwise, they're just, I don't know what they're doing. They're watching Fox all day, and they're cheering on Donald Trump. I, I surf literally every day.

Literally every day. Oh, wow. Good for you. Yeah, I try to go, like, three times a week. And I noticed today that the prone surfing is really hard on my neck and back. Like, the, the hardest paddling takes some, some, some muscle, but the craning the neck up is the hardest part for me. And I'm, I'm 10 years younger than you, right? I'm, I'm 60, so.

Well, you know, I, I, I work for Steve Jobs, and so maybe he beat all the rigidity out of me, so that's why I could still, you know, bend my neck and pop up and stuff.

Talk, Talk about that. Talk about. I know you probably get tired of Talking about it. But of course, you'll be talking about working with Steve Jobs for the rest of your life.

Well, the only other choice is I died before him, right?

Yeah. And that didn't happen?

No.

Sad. So what was that like? What did you learn those stories?

Listen, working for Steve Jobs was an honor and a privilege. It was also very scary, don't get me wrong. But I think, to use a sports analogy, it's kind of like if you played for Bobby Knight and, you know, you played for Bobby Knight, and people get this impression of. All he ever does is, you know, throw chairs at the referees and stuff like that. But if you played for Bobby Knight, you probably loved Bobby Knight, and Bobby Knight probably made you a better player than you could have been without Bobby Knight. And I think that's the same thing. It's true of Steve Jobs, don't get me wrong. He was intimidating and scary, but I would not give up that experience for anything. I am where I am because of Steve Jobs.

That's a really valuable thing. So do you have any favorite stories of that, where he, like, crushed you on something or.

Well, I could tell you where. Where I. I came close to being crushed, but I. I emerged victorious. How's that? So one day, I'm in my cubicle and I'm working, and he shows up. Guy I never met, and he asked me what I thought of this piece of software called Mineware. And. Wait, was it called Minewear? Anyway, he showed up with this guy, and he asked me what I thought of this software product. And I said, you know, it's kind of mediocre. It's drilling practice. You know, two plus two equals four, Steve. It doesn't really take advantage of the Macintosh graphics and stuff, so it's not strategic for us. And then he turns to me and turns to the guy, and he says, guy, I want you to meet the CEO of the company. So now. Okay. Now, if I had said, oh, it's a great piece of software, you know, Steve probably also thought it was a piece of. And if I had said it was great and Steve thought it was a piece of, I might have gotten fired right there in real time. So I passed the Steve Jobs test. I live to fight another day, invest another day. Yeah.

I worked for a guy once who was really remarkable. He was an extraordinary storyteller, inspirational speaker. He was also a very complicated individual. Like, personally, in many ways that I won't share. But. So I'm working with this guy, and, yeah, he had notorious stories and really weird things, but and then, like, once a year, we'd have to do our annual strategy and plan for each of the market leaders. And I came in and I had my whole thing, and I'm talking and I'm first up in the day, and I actually have the biggest. The biggest market segment, and. And I'm given my show, and I've spent time preparing it. And then he just. He's like, in rare form. I don't know if he slept badly or his girlfriend turned down or something, but he just starts. He just starts lighting into me. He starts swearing at me and humiliating me. Your problem, Gallagher. And I will. Show will get edited now. But, like, I'll tell you what your problem is. You don't know how to sell anymore. And, like, any. And I just. I'm like, oh. And I. Oh. Shocking. And I just, like, inside, I wanted to cry. I'm like, this is the worst possible thing. I couldn't even imagine. Now I'm in my mid-20s, so I'm not that old. And. And I. But I am like, I have to get through this. And he cannot see me cry. Like, I am not crying. And I'm famous for crying, right? Like, on stage to inspire people or whatever. But, like, no, not today. You. You're not. Like, this is how I felt. Like, right. That. And so then I finished the thing. We get through it, and then it went really, really long. And then we take lunch, and. And now my peers are with me, and. And they're like, dude, that was odd. We felt bad for you. I'm like, yeah, but you didn't say anything. You didn't interrupt. You didn't run interference for me. You just let me weather that storm, that blast of whatever. Then we come back from Lodge. He's like, mellow. Maybe had a drink at lunch or something. I don't know. But, like. And theirs were fine. And they, like, sailed through. And.

And. And now. And now, looking back, you know, that probably was a valuable experience, right?

I learned that I can. That getting through, surviving things. And if I hadn't gotten through, right. I wouldn't have gone on to do one of the most important things, which was grow a $550 million before 30. Like, you know, that's a really important experience in my life and changed how I view executives and myself. And there are many lessons in that, but I had to get through that. Right. And he did really want it to win.

He did, you know? Yeah. When Steve Jobs spoke at the Stanford graduation, he made a statement that you can only connect the Dots looking backwards.

Right.

So at the time of that experience, you probably weren't thinking, oh, this is going to be great. It's going to lead me to create 550 million dollar business under 30. Thank you for doing this to me. But now you can look back and say, yeah, that really helped me.

Yes, yes, yes. Right. Like now from now. I have another friend who had a company that worked with Apple in those days, a company called Spec and Tony Lillios and he's a dear friend and he coached me and he worked with Steve on some things and in I think iPhone, not, not the Mac days, but the later iPhone times. And he's like, yeah, I watched Steve, like just R people and things all the time. But you never for one second thought that it was like personal, it was about doing your best work. He was pushing for greatness, pushing for something beautiful, elegant, amazing. Right?

Yeah. I mean that's, that's why you feared him. On the other hand, you learn from him. And you know, I think I, I talk about this in my book that there are fundamentally two kinds of. So one is ego driven. It's all about me, myself and my, my glorification. Right. And the other kind of was a mission driven. And a mission says, we're gonna make the best freaking personal computer and if you get in my way, I'm gonna run you over. And that's the kind of, that Steve Jobs was. So I think that, you know, I'm not advocating you have to be an and Melanie Perkins, the cat, the canvas CEO proves you don't have to be an but, but a mission driven is a very motivating factor.

You know, I think about this. You've interviewed a lot of remarkable people and this comes up frequently in the background as I'm coaching CEOs. They're like, yeah, but this person, they'll pick, cherry pick someone, you know, like, oh, but yeah, but this person had this issue. I'm like, look, Henry Ford was a Nazi. Steve Jobs was maybe not the best dad ever. Like, Elon Musk is a complicated man child.

I think that's being too kind.

But okay, maybe too kind. Right? Like at one after another, like they're all human beings and they all have like a flaw. You could be great. And sometimes the most extraordinary people are, are maybe not. They have some issues in some other areas. Right?

Yeah. Well, I gotta tell you, I think the most remarkable person alive today is Jane Goodall. And I know her pretty well. And, and I have yet to find a flaw in Jane Goodall.

Okay, so let's all try to be. Actually, my wife's trying to organize a trip with some CEOs to Uganda right now. And we're gonna go see some gorillas and things like that. So that would be.

Tell those gorillas I said hi. Actually, I think Jane Goodall is chimps, not gorillas. But that's okay. You mean gorillas the animal, not gorillas the terrorists.

Right, right, right.

Just making sure the two spellings are very different. It would be a real bummer if you get there and the person picks you up and takes you to this like, terrorist camp. And you said, well, you said you wanted to see gorillas. I'm showing you gorillas. Here's an AK47, here's a 30 clip, you know, 30 bullet clip. This is how it works.

When you think about this, the complicated people with issues, I feel like there's want to just discount, like, well, we can't learn from them because they did this bad thing. I'm like, yeah, they did, but they also did something great. Can we learn from the great part and try to be a better leader?

I, I think that's absolutely true. But I would also make the case that when you come right down to it, almost everybody is complicated. It's, I don't think you can divide the world into complicated and simple people. Everybody's got their complications. You just gotta dig deep enough.

Yeah. You know, I, I feel like, like I, when I look in the mirror, I feel pretty good about myself, my life, my work. I'm committed to making a difference for people. I act as a coach. I help people fulfill their vision for a better world. Like, you know, that's my work. And I, and I, I strive to be very generous with it. And then I try to do that in every. So, like, in general, I feel good. Right? Like I, I, I feel good about how I'll be looked at it. And yet, yeah, last week I had a moment where I got hangry, where I lost my cool, where I went to 11 on the scale and I just was completely like nuts and out of the window. And I'm like, somebody stopped me. I was out of control. Like anger, like I turned into the Hulk for a few minutes. And it had like a real impact on my daughter and my wife.

And, and you know what? 20 years from now your daughter's gonna say, oh, that time my dad just, he went off the freaking, you know, scale. But it taught me a valuable lesson and it enabled me to create a 550 billion dollar business.

Exactly.

Or she's gonna say, my father is an. May he rest in peace.

I'm a good riddance. Yeah, yeah. I think there's something that, like the great people, they're complicated. They're. It's not a simple thing. And yet you can also get reduced down to something like they're just a bully or whatever. Right?

Yeah, well, yeah, people are complicated. And I'm not complicated. I'm simple. But, yeah, I'm a simple guy.

Yeah. What are there any particular ones You've had so many remarkable people on? When you think about the mindset, what is the access to shifting your mindset? How do we adopt that? How do we, how do we have that be a positive thing and then, and then how do we have it affect the people around us, our companies, our culture, our teams?

Well, I think about 70 or 80% of a growth mindset is realizing that there is a growth mindset and there is a fixed mindset. You may not even be aware that you have a fixed mindset, but I think when somebody explains a difference and, you know, says to you, well, have you tried a new sport? Have, have you tried reading books outside of your, you know, usual genre? Have you gone to a conference that is not, you know, right down the middle of your industry? You know, are you, are you watching different tv? Are you, you know, whatever, Right. At some point you say, ha, you know, maybe I am in a rut. And that's about, I think, 70 or 80% of it. And then you have to embrace yourself for vulnerability because when you learn a new sport or you learn a new subject or creating a new industry, you're going to get woo, wounded. I mean, you know, you try surfing at 60, you're gonna get hurt. That's just the way it is. And you have to embrace that thought. And I think that's step number two. And then you, you need to surround yourself with people who are supportive because you can be, have a growth mindset and be in a fixed mindset environment. And if you, if you work for a company where they don't have, you know, training programs that they don't foster cross fertilization of functionality and, and, you know, they only want to hire white men from Ivy League colleges and there's no diversity. I mean, if you have a growth mindset, you're gonna not do well in that company. You need to get the hell out of there.

Yeah, it's conformist. It's, it's consistency. Yeah, interesting. Okay, so if I'm the leader of that, what is it? That I need to do to bring that to my company.

Well, I think as a leader, the first step is you have to understand that you should hire people who are better than you in their function. And if you're a leader who wants to hire people who are not as good as you in that function because you want to look around the room and feel superior to everybody, you're a freaking loser by definition. So, you know, and I think that is the bulk of it. And as a leader, you should look around the room and say, wow, she's better than me in sales, he's better than me in operations, she's better than me in finance, you know, and everybody should be better than you.

Yes. You know, it's interesting because then who does that make you? That makes you, like, the. The servant of the team, the servant of the mission of the company. I'm there in service of them to help them to win. I am not. They're not here to do my bidding.

Well, you know, the irony is that you would think, oh, if everybody's better than me, that I'm completely dispensable. But the irony is, I think that if you. If you hired everybody who was better than you, you would actually become indispensable because so few people are willing to hire people better than themselves. Like, who could assemble a team of such great people. He's indispensable.

Yeah. When I think about hiring, I also think about, like, I want. I want people who are extraordinary at things that I'm terrible at, who are going to be like, look, I. I'm great at, like, inventing and starting things. I'm great at evangelizing, but I am terrible at the, like, repetition and the consistency of operations. If you put me in charge of operations you're covering will fail. If you put me in charge of that Kumbaya kind of thing where everybody feels good and take your company will fail. Like.

Well, I mean, if you go back in history, imagine if Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs were both engineers. Or imagine if Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs were both marketeers. We would not be talking about Apple today. Right? Yeah. I mean, you need someone who can make it and somebody who can sell it. You need complimentary people, not. Not duplicative people.

Are there any people of your guests, your remarkable people that really surprised you? You were not expecting it to go that way?

Yeah. You mean positively or negative?

The negative would actually make really good stories. But you might not.

Well, I. I gotta tell you that, you know, when you interview a MacArthur fellow or your interview, a Nobel Prize winner. You know, because they, they, they have. I have had people like that on my podcast. You, you know, you kind of set to expect something pretty extraordinary.

Yeah.

But I'll tell you, some of the most exciting interviews were like, I interviewed someone who was. He was sentenced to 40 years of prison at 16. He got out after 22 years, and now he's an artist. Right. Or I interviewed someone who was raised in the projects of New York and both parents were crack addicts. I interviewed someone who was homeless and, you know, abused by his mother and st. And then I, I also interviewed a woman who was diagnosed with ALS 10 years ago and still alive, and she decided to complete a marathon in all 50 states. Most people would not have heard of any of these people. You all heard of Jane Goodall and Steve Wozniak and Angela Duckworth and, you know, Margaret Atwood and Stacey Abrams, but you wouldn't have heard of these people. I think those people are, Are, you know, just as remarkable and maybe more interesting because of what they had to overcome. Many remarkable people are remarkable because, you know, things fell into line for them right away. But there are some people who had to over. If you imagine having to overcome 22 years of prison to become an artist, you know, I mean, that's a big deal, man. That's.

I'm struck by how there are some people who. They have a little, like, weird thing in their. In their tidy suburban upbringing, and then they use it to torch their life and they do something violent in the community or whatever. And then other people who, like, live through the Holocaust and then became amazing, beautiful authors and violinists and things like that. I'm like, it's not necessarily adversity that is the determinant about having something bad happening. It's about what you do with it and how you handle it. That is more the course.

This is a, this is an interesting topic because, I mean, this is. This is facetious, but you wouldn't want to. You wouldn't say, oh, in order to be outstanding, I need to go through tragedy, you know, so give me a disease or make me homeless or make me a drug addict. You know, Andrew Zimmern had drug problem. I mean, of course you wouldn't do it that way. But the, the concept that, oh, you, you were brought up, you went to all the right schools, Ivy League, you had an internship at Goldman Sachs, who got your first job at McKinsey, and now, you know, you're running a hedge fund. Oh, my God. Aren't I remarkable? Well, you won't get on my podcast. I don't give a. My podcast is about remarkable people. Not rich people, not famous people.

Yeah, that's interesting. I love that highlight. And I think about a very dear friend I had who just. He had a really great, good life. He was very smart, that kind of thing. But it was like a little too easy, I think, and he didn't do the work and. And he had a drug overdose, you know, and it was ended short. And I think that that, like, lean into the adversity like we have. We all have different things that happen to us, and if you keep, like, leaning to it and striving for something new. I love that thing that you pointed out. Like, if you are doing the same thing, then you're not really in a growth mindset. And one of our company values is never finished. And I like this idea that I'll always be working. So I'm always looking for, like, what's a new thing I could do. This fall I'm going to a retreat conference about considering, like, what's the rest of your life all about With a guy named Chip Conley.

Oh, yeah, yeah. You're going to Mexico.

Yeah, going to Mexico with Chip. And you know, he is this thing, Modern Elder Academy. We did a show recently with Chip and talked about the work that they do there and that kind of thing. But, you know, like, let's stop and do that. Just before COVID hit in 2019, I got a coach and I learned how to do standup comedy. And then I went and did a 15 minute set in New York. And it was among the most terrifying things that I ever did. I like, I broke my toe that day. I was so, like, wound up like crazy about like, oh, I have to memorize this thing. And then I have to be funny for, you know, 15 minutes in a club in New York. And.

And how did it go?

You know, like, when I watched the replay, I'm like, it wasn't that funny. And. And some of the jokes that I wrote, like, with the Bay Area mindset, like, didn't go over there. And some of the jokes were only cringy because I wrote them because I knew my kids would be in the audience and I wanted to, like, make them uncomfort comfortable and. And, but. But like, look at then the being more free with comedy in my public speaking and my work, like, came in. I did another thing a little while later called vocal improv. And this is among the most terrifying things I ever did. Like, I'm like, what is that? I don't know. It sounds weird and different. So you're gonna go and you're gonna make sounds like improv, not words, not singing musical sounds that are unplanned. And so they're like, the instructor is like telling us what to do at the beginning of the class and she's like, okay, I'm gonna start like a little melody and then you're gonna add a bass thing and then you're gonna add a little beat and then you're gonna add a little color and then just like. And then she starts this like beautiful sort of scat singing thing. And she, she's fantastic and trained singing and like that she's. And then all sounds amazing. And as it starts to come around the room, I know soon it's going to be my turn to do something. And in that moment with those people, I was like, I would rather take all my clothes off right now and just be naked. That feels safer to me than how uncool I'm about to sound.

I'm sure they preferred that you tried the vault vocal.

They preferred it, but I felt like the vocal thing was going to be more vulnerable and more awkward than just being a naked 60 year old. So I, I did it right and it wasn't comfortable, it wasn't good, it wasn't pretty. But then over the next, you know, few weeks, and then with time, I was freer with my speaking. I was, I used a greater range of tone and things like that. I got like. There was a breakthrough of some in that I didn't keep doing that work but, but like doing an uncomfortable. Sometimes you do a lot more of it, right? You're like hooked on it. You're like, I got to do more of this. I did the wing foil thing. I'm like, I was terrible. But I kept at it, right? I think like all that, like I did the comedy thing, I didn't keep doing it, but then I brought some of it into, you know, my other work. Right.

Well, you know, one of the lessons I learned, and I think it was from Andrew Zimmer that I swear 90% of success is you just gotta keep showing up. Because most people do not keep showing up. They can talk a good game, but you just gotta keep showing up, right? So for, for about 10 years I've been trying to surf every day. You just gotta keep showing up.

You know, though, there is this fallacy, like, you know, somebody we know said, well, if you just put in 10,000 hours of stuff I, I've spent 10,000 hours at things that I' terrible at. Like it doesn't necessarily make you masterful at it to spend 10,000, you know.

I mean, listen, I think what you learn is in a sense the journey is the reward, right. It's like at, at no point. I hope you didn't think you were going to be a professional wind surfer. I don't think I'm going to be a professional surfer. I still might put 10,000 hours into.

To it and, and you might really enjoy it, right? I did. I spent 10 years, I did 45 triathlons and marathons for a while and I really enjoyed it. It was great. It was like a huge thing. I would spend 13 to 15 hours a week of training in doing it. It was very all consuming for a while in my life. And I never had any danger of being in the podium. I never had any danger of being a top 10 finisher. Never any chance of that. But I like really enjoyed it. Lost weight, I got in shape, my self image is good. My self esteem's improved. It came to all parts of my life.

So you are a winner, you're on the podium.

Yeah, right, like in, in the greater sense of, of life. Well, yeah. One last thing before we, as we head towards the. What is this? Getting stoked on oaks? Talk about that.

This is a long story. Okay, so where I live, the hill behind my house was covered with eucalyptus trees. And if you're not familiar with the eucalyptus tree, it is a bad tree to have because it has very shallow roots and it grows very tall so it can fall over and crush your house. It is also a producer of a lot of shedding that is fire material. And the tree itself, the leaves full of oil, it burns really well. You do not want to live close to eucalyptus tre trees in California during the fire season. So I took the initiative and I had like 150 oak, excuse me, eucalyptus trees removed from my property. And then now my property is kind of looking like, you know, like a desert. So I decide I gotta put back native species and the thing to put back is oaks. So then I learned like what's it take to put in an oak tree? And you know, yes, you can go get a sapling and put it in. But I read that if you start from an acorn, eventually the acorn lead tree will overtake the sapling. Just, I don't know, I don't know why. I mean, you know, I read it on the Internet, it must be true. So anyway, so So I said, okay, I'm gonna go to acorn route. So then, you know, finding acorns not that easy when you really want to, you know, when you don't want them, they're everywhere. But then not every oak tree puts out acorn. So I found some crops. Great acorn producing oak trees on University Avenue in Los Gatos, California. If you want to follow in my footsteps, it's right outside the Warby Parker store, just FYI. So you get all these hundreds of acorns, you put them in a water and then the ones that float, you throw away because those are dead. The ones that sink are good. You put them in a pan, you covered with a cloth, you put water on the cloth, you put it in your refrigerator for two or three months and then you plant hundreds of them in your field. And then a few dozen pop up and now you gotta like protect those from the deer and everything. And now it's been a year and a half. And of those hundreds that I started with, I think I have four saplings. Wow. No. So I learned a very valuable lesson. You know, if I could tell you which four seeds would become a sampling, I would have just planted those four.

Right.

But I had to plan hundreds. And the other thing about getting stoked on oaks is that it leads to a sense of humility. Because as I was doing all of this madness, I figured out one day, you know, guy, you're doing something that it takes 20 years for an oak tree to grow big enough to provide shade. So it's very possible that you will never see sit in the shade of the oak tree that you are now planting. You are truly doing this for your kids and your grandkids. Because I mean, if I went down that hill and sat under the shade of those oak trees, they may never be able to get me back up the hills.

That's interesting. Investing in the future, being willing to do a lot of work to produce a long term result is a.

And the result you may not even see.

See. Yeah. Yeah. Are you willing to work on that? You know, it's interesting. Years ago we saw Japanese companies in particular take a very long view on the work that they did versus the quarter by quarter stuff that we saw with American public companies. And that idea, are you willing to work on something who's who may not even be realized in your lifetime? Right. Like it may you work at something that pays off off after you're gone and that maybe even your contribution to might not be remembered for?

Yeah. Yep.

It's a fascinating Pursuit. Yeah. Well, if you're like me, you're probably hungry for more stories, more lessons, that kind of thing. The book is think remarkable nine paths to transform your life and make a difference. And you'll find all that and more@guy kawasaki.com Guy's website. Right. Links. And then we'll put in a. We'll put in a link to a free course as well or an offer for Canva. Tell us about that, Guy.

Yeah, it's a course that Canva and I made about how to be remarkable. So it's a free online course. And the last thing which I launched this week is I launched the Substack newsletter. And that Substack newsletter is called Remarkable People. And its goal is to help you be remarkable also. So I got you coming and going.

The free course, the sub stack, the podcast, the website, the book. Multifaceted. It's inescapable.

Like smog. Like smog. All right, thank you for having me.

Thanks so much for coming on, for reconnecting.

I'm gonna go surf right now. All right, take care.

Take it easy. See you.

Bye bye.

Bye bye everyone. Thanks again for watching, for listening. Thanks again to the folks at story on who got our show ready. To my friend and mentor, Vern Harnish, who created the whole scaling up framework. You'll find our stuff and more@scalingcoach.com and until next time, keep scaling. Are you ready to turn your goals into daily wins? You should check out our scoreboard software. Powered by a Align, it's the official software for scaling up. With scoreboard, you'll get an AI driven coach for priorities and KPIs and it'll help keep your team focused on what matters most. With Align, you can track your goals in real time and you'll even see results on the go. With their mobile app, you can rest easy knowing that Align has world class onboarding and support to set your team up for success. This is really more than just software. It's what I actually use to manage growth in our Scaling up client teams. Unlock clarity and results with Scoreboard by Aligned. To try it now, go to aligntoday.com Bill G one more time. Aligntoday.com Bill G. That's aligntoday.com Bill G. Check it out and try it now.