Unlocking the Power of Public Speaking with Blair Bryant Nichols

Foreign. We're talking about public speaking. How do you speak publicly in a way that actually advances your business, your project, your book, your like, whatever it is? How do we use public speaking in a strategic way? That's the subject of our conversation today. I've been doing this here stages for most of my life, it seems, and yet I don't always know if it's actually helping me or not. So I'm excited about this conversation. I know CEOs found founders, you have to talk, you have to take the stage, you have to take the mic and speak publicly. How do we do that? Smart. How do we do that? Well, that's the subject of our conversation today. So. Hey again, everybody, My name is Bill Gallagher. I'm the host and scaling coach, host of this fine Scaling up business podcast. We bring our show to you every week with something to do with growing, scaling your company and the leadership required to get you there's. We draw our work from the world of scaling up and you'll find more than 600 shows over eight years. Wherever you're getting this right now, LinkedIn, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, etc. You can find them all there. But you could also go to scalingcoach.com where you could also get access to our monthly workshops, our annual strategy and planning stuff. ScalingCoach.com is our website and the place to go to get that, all that stuff. So scalingcoach.com, our workshops, the back catalog, our blog posts, all that kind of thing. We also do a newsletter every couple weeks, and we update you on things that we're seeing in the world that seem relevant in our shows and posts and that kind of thing. So all that and more. Scalingcoach.com all right. All right. I'm joined now by Blair Bryant Nichols. It's a mouthful, right? Blair, welcome to the show.

Oh, awesome. Thank you, Bill. Great to be here.

Thank you for joining us. So Blair is the owner of BBN Creative Management. He's an expert in building speaking as a strategic platform for your company, helping entrepreneurs, executives, budding subject matter experts in building their world of, you know, their public Persona around that. So, of course there's a, you know, huge center of this kind of thing in Los Angeles. So he joins us today from la, where this is a bit of a thing, right? How do we build that public Persona, but have it actually serve us not be some accidental mess of things that we probably shouldn't have said, Tragic faux pas on a global stage. So Blair's MBA is from UCLA Anderson and anyway, great expert in that and I'm glad to have you on the show. Let's start off with. I don't know if you've got any horror stories, right, train wrecks of keynote speaking, yours or clients that you could share with us.

Yeah, you know that it happens every once in a while. Like over time you, you learn to avoid these types of disasters by not having the wrong people booked. And a lot of the bureaus and the managers will avoid people if anything like this happens. But occasionally, you know, whether it is the speaker's fault or not, events have not gone so well. And there has been a case where it was totally the speaker's fault. And I traveled all the way from New York to Oman, and I'm not even exaggerating to spend a week with this client preparing for this talk. And when they finally got up to give the talk, they read from a script. It was so bad the whole audience didn't understand why this person had been chosen to come speak there. And it was so embarrassing. It was, you know, such an expensive trip for them to, you know, put us up and spend the time and everything else. And it was early in my career and when I first knew I really loved the management side of being one on one with the client. But I got a lot of firsthand experience seeing how it could go really wrong if, like the ultimate delivery doesn't go so well. I felt like we were fleeing the country the next morning. Like we were like, couldn't get out of there fast enough, couldn't get on a plane fast enough to just escape from that embarrassing situation. I would say that's not, that's not usually the case. That's a rare case, you know, but I've also seen speakers who just don't connect with the audience. You know, they, they're giving a can talk and they've talking to an audience of people who are all, you know, work from home entrepreneurs. And they kept talking about going to the office and how like your commute can impact you, and that was not the audience at all. So there's a lot of things that speakers can do to really, you know, crap the bed, so to speak. But, you know, not connecting with the audience is really what there is. The primary goal is to do that. So if you miss on any of those things, whether your presentation isn't great, your content's not great, or you're not doing a good job of telling stories, like, that's where you're just going to be not remembered. And you know, that can be worse than standing out because you did something outrageous or controversial.

You know, it's funny. I given countless talks and stuff around the world, and I have definitely wet the bed a few times. You know, I. And it's real. There's also some. At this point, at the age of 60, I. I don't do it that often anymore, but there are definitely recurring things, moves that we all do. One of mine, for years was just being boring, and it was in my more corporate time, and I felt like I'd gotten a couple of, like, negative comments or whatever from some executives in the company that I needed to tone it down a bit, you know, and then I sort of, you know, made everything gray and flat, and then I got regular comments about how it's boring and I'm arrogant. And, you know, I haven't gotten rid of the arrogant thing, but I try really hard not to be as boring anymore. You're going to be arrogant, at least entertain people, at least provoke them, at least, you know.

Well, I mean, it's all different levels of speaking, right? You know, depending on what you're there to do. I think a lot of people start off in that, presenting a specific slide deck. They're subject matter experts, or they're just presenting at work. And it's not exactly what we think of as keynote speaking, you know, as you elevate through the different ranks, so to speak, of speaking where you're at the point where you're being paid to give, you know, an opening keynote at a major event or just any sort of conference. You know, there's an expectation that you've gone beyond just being able to explain a concept well. You know, you. You're a big champion of storytelling and how that helps convey ideas better. And that's what. That's what we would like to see on the stage is someone that can tell a compelling story and share valuable information and like I mentioned before, connect with that audience. And usually you do that through stories. You could do that through jokes. But people also want that authenticity. So if. If it's authentic to you to be arrogant, then you can offset it with humor. And if it's authentic, you know, for you to be quieter than be quieter, I think what shifted is not. You don't have to be a Tony Robbins rah, rah, rah, pumped up for every talk. It has to be authentic to you. And the, you know, emotions and the feelings that you want to generate in your audience, it might not be getting them.

You know what I think, like unlocking your range so like, you know, I, in those days that I got the things for being a little flat boring and being arrogant, I focused a lot on making sure that my slides were ready and good. Like, you know, and then that was before a lot of digital projectors. So if you're going to do a big event or a keynote or whatever, you'd send slides, you'd output your. Then we used Aldous. Persuasion was the program way back once upon a time. And you'd output your stuff in at like some infographics place into slides and then you'd send that. And then just to make sure you'd bring the files with you maybe on like a huge sciquest cartridge of some kind and you might bring overheads as well or something like that. So you're ready with your. And I was so focused on like having my content and the structure around it that I, you know, that kind of thing happened. And I gave a talk actually in Oman. I've only done one, but. And it went well. But it was about to not go well because I showed up and I hated the hotel they put me in. And I'm like, this is a beautiful, cool country and I'm in this awful, depressing place and I'm not in a good, abundant, sharing, happy mindset. So I found the most beautiful place I could go to, which turned out to be the place where they were going to have the talk later. And I'm like, I'm going to go there. So I went there early and I went to the beach and went to the pool and chilled out and I really indulged myself. And then I'm like, okay, I feel great. Now I'm ready to give a talk, you know, like I like took care of myself so that I could be generous and free with people, right? And then I went on from there to Pakistan and gave two talks in two different cities there and. And I got a horrible stomach bug from some like bad goat or something, you know, in Pakistan, as one might do in a place like that. And I'm like, okay, how am I going to give these toxin workshops? And I am not doing good, right? Like I did okay there too because I balance that, like taking care of myself but being fully self expressed, like just I'm going to give you everything and connect, you know. And you like mentioned Tony Robbins being rah rah and that's his style for sure. He has like a power and presence because he's like a million feet tall and he's a huge guy and he deep voice and you know, all that kind of thing. But then he also does that thing. He like looks into your soul and he's like, yeah, so how long you been alone? You know, like, and like in an audience of thousands, he connects with one human and gets quiet. Like that range of stuff. I just love that when a speaker is good enough to like have laughter and tears and, you know, the whole thing.

Oh, totally. I mean, I was at a conference a few weeks ago for the whole kind of speaker bureau, speaker agency in industry and we had our own share of speakers and one of them said, you know, this is theater. And I was like, wow. No one ever says that in this industry very much because, you know, we think of it in this entirely different category. But it truly is, it's, it's 45 minutes, 60 minutes. You know, you're not going to be able to distill your book into that long. You're not really there. You're not teaching even a semester worth of a course. You know, you're, you're really just getting a big idea and how you do that has to entertain, has to connect all those things that you said and, and really, truly though that, that is. The speakers who do the best ultimately are the ones who are really talented at, you know, adding art into their talk somehow or into your point, connecting with the audience in big and quiet ways and are able to generate laughter and tears simultaneously seemingly. But yeah, it's, it takes practice too. Some people are naturally gifted at it, but it takes practice for anyone. No one, no one is naturally gifted at all elements. You know, everyone has their piece that they really need to hone and figure out and it's hard to get a lot of time on stage, you know, to work those things out. You know, we talk about comedians going to small clubs to work out their new material. It's because it's, you need as many at bats as possible. It's not because they want to be in front of small audiences. It's because it's the volume of, you know, getting working out just with a small sample group. It's their market research. So you, you know, if you're working on your speaking, like, use any opportunity you can to give that talk to organizations that might find value in it or your local church and schools and places that, you know, are in your community. Because it's the type of thing that it's hard to practice just doing it on your own.

Yeah, I, you know, I, more recently I've done vocal improv, voice coaching and even stand up comedy. A few years ago. And all those things were deeply uncomfortable, embarrassing, awkward. Right. But each one of them helped level up my speaking and presence and that kind of thing, freeing my voice, making me less self conscious. Right. Movement, vocal voice, comedy. Comedy was probably the most nerve wracking. Like following a script and trying to be funny for 15 minutes. Oh my God. In a room of people. I don't know. Like, that's really, really awkward. But I think all those things make.

Yeah, yeah. I mean it's, it's a fear for a lot of people by stand up comedy and public speaking, but it's, it's a really valuable tool. And whether, you know, if you're a business owner or someone that's just trying to leverage your own time, better be, you know, being able to speak in front of a lot of potential customers or entire your entire team and make an impression on culture in that way that I just don't think a lot of people always take advantage of the different areas where speaking can be really impactful. And I think whether you're a business owner or leader in any fashion, it's something that should be part of your role and part of your growth plan.

Yeah. So let's talk about your early career. In the beginning, you worked with authors to help them figure out how to tell stories and create. Tell us about that time and maybe some of the examples of the people that you worked with and what you did.

Sure. Yeah. I started off in New York in the, in the HarperCollin Speakers Bureau. They were the first publishing house to have an in house speakers Bureau starting in 2005. And I kind of got to learn that this industry even existed. Wasn't even, you know, I was kind of coming into publishing just wanting to work in some facet of the industry. I already knew editorial and that side wasn't for me. And I was thinking more on like the publicity side. And, and this was something that was kind of in the middle. And I got to work with all different types of authors, like including Gregory, Gregory Maguire from the author of Wicked, because Harper Collins published all of his books. So that was, you know, the book had already been out for a bit of time by, by that point. It's been around for a while, but I'm sure they're selling a lot more copies right now. So people like that. And that was the rare fiction author that you have to be one of the best sellers, one of the most known, to really get booked a lot as a fiction author, I would say like a Nicholas Sparks that I also worked with. And then otherwise it was looking at the non fiction, you know, the people that are talking about business or other tech topics and figuring out kind of what in the market is hot, like what are people actually interested in. And a lot of books get published because there's an audience for a lot of people that want to learn about something. But that doesn't mean that every book should be a lecture or is going to be a keynote that someone would pay to bring into their organization or see. So there's a filtering kind of all of that. So I just kind of got to learn on that side of it. And. And then I moved over to Hachette and Simon and Schuster and I, I was working with this. I was running the Simon and Schuster speakers bureau and the Hachette speakers bureaus at the same time because they had a partnership with the agency that I worked for. So I kind of ran like an outsourced mini agency for both the publishers. And I was there at the time that Steve Jobs died. And Walter Isaacson's book was scheduled to come out a few months later. But given that that occurred, they went ahead and rushed on getting it printed and released. And you know, I worked with him on getting other things booked, even though he was with a bigger agency that was kind of a competitor to us. But I got to go with him to Brazil to do a big talk for InBev, the giant beverage company, and spend 48 hours in Sao Paulo just because they wanted him to come and talk about Steve Jobs and the Steve Jobs book. So that was pretty kind of crazy thing to do, you know, young in my career. Just kind of fun though to be able to do that and got to ride around the city with him and listen to, you know, him talk about the book to a lot of different types of audiences and for interviews. And that was a pretty cool experience in like the, the publishing world slash early career.

So what's the mistake or the gap that new speaker authors make and what's the fix or the thing that makes it go well? What did you see again and again that people didn't do right and then how did you shift it for them?

Yeah, well, I think one of the biggest mistakes that people make is just thinking that they can speak about every anything or they can put it in their own language and that it's going to be, you know, appropriate for every audience. Most people have imposter syndrome in the way that they assume that a lot more people know what they know so they forget that their language is new to Other people, that these ideas are new, that they're goal as a speaker should be to really introduce these things not at a expert level, but at an introductory level to get people interested so that they can build now a reputation and an expertise around being the person that talks about these things. So they sometimes are already over the head of their audience and they need to bring it down to their level. They need to learn how to position themselves and sometimes it's hard to do yourself. So I understand why people get it wrong, but they just take the book title and think that that's the, you know, going to be the most translatable keynote topic when really it might not be. It might be, you know, you have to talk in plain language so that people know what the topic's about and then you can introduce your specific word or methodology later as part of the keynote or as part of your speaking. So that's a big area. And I think a lot of people throw up a website, don't have any video, you know, list 12 topics that they can talk about and wonder why they're not really getting any traction. Well, you really need to try to get video. There's just no excuse anymore. You know, you don't need to wait to get booked for some major event to film it. You can go out and talk anywhere and film it. People just need to see you speak. You know, you don't even need an audience. I work with a lot of people and we put together really high grade professional reels without them ever setting foot on stage just so that they have something to work with to start with. And people want to know you as the expert in something. So if I see 12 topics, I just assume you, you know, you can talk about a lot of things, but what's your actual expertise? What are you really known for? What is, what should you be known for? So having your keynote topics narrowed down to two or three main things that are the truest to you, but that could potentially speak to a lot of different audiences because they're, you know, things that are more applicable. So I think a lot of it is just in how they position themselves. Getting clarity on really what they should be focused on and how they should position and the, in how they should talk about what they talk about in a way that's accessible to who is actually going to be their, their client and getting some clarity really on who is the right audience. Not this is for everyone. I can speak to everyone. No, you gotta start niche, you gotta start with, you know, if you're coming out of the insurance world. Then focus on that world for now and where you can teach them and then move laterally and grow, you know, into other sectors. But don't try to just address everyone like starting a business in general. Start with the ideal audience, the ideal client, customer, etc. And really try to hone your positioning and messaging around that, you know?

So we get pitched guests especially for the show, for sure. Every day some guests pitches come in and we get also pitches for our events, for speakers at the events. And I notice some of what you say in all of those pitches that I just like, drives me crazy. So they pitch me like four to 10 topics. I'm like, oh, my God, no, just pick me the one thing like an expert in public speaking. Great, let's talk about that. Not, you know, well, he could talk about speaking, he could talk about publicity. He could talk about virtual meetings. He could talk about like, these might all be subtopics, but what's that? Like one thing that you want to be known for and that you want to go out there and maybe you choose wrong, but then put out another thing. But come at me with your best topic and then share stories with me. I don't want to hear like your 10. Everybody explains their framework or their 10 principles or whatever. It's boring as hell. Your system or making a million dollars or a billion dollars. It's all boring crap. And it's not reproducible. But stories like touch my heart. So come at me with a big idea and some great stories. I'm interested, right? Like the, the. So that's the biggest one I get at both all the guest pitches. And then even sometimes when guests come on, they're like, well, I write about that in the book. Okay, we're not reading the book. Tell me the story. Tell me now, later. I'm never going to read your book if you don't get me interested now. But tell me one or two stories. You probably have 20 in the book, right? Like, I get that all the time with, with some of the guests. And every now and then we have to actually throw a recording away because it's just so boring because they're just saying a lot of basic things. On the other hand, then I see other people take the stage and they say something that I consider really basic and people eat it up. And I'm like, wait a minute, why is everybody so digging this thing? And it seems so obvious to me, and you spoke to that there. You're like, you make assumptions about what people know and that kind of thing. There's a whole bunch of, there's definitely areas or categories that I consider, like, everybody knows that that's foundational, but I don't realize that, you know, half those people are half my age and they're at the beginning of their career and they don't know all that stuff. And it isn't like they haven't learned that yet. And they will eventually because it's not like at some level. But it's only basic to me because I have the experience that I have. Right. Like, and I, and then when I say things right. And speakers, other speakers do this too. We, we assume all that, like foundational information that people don't necessarily have.

Yeah, it's definitely true. And with speakers, because they're going to all these different events, they get to become the best students. So they're hearing from the other speakers, they're actually learning all these other concepts. But the people in the audience, this is probably the one time a year that they're not just business as usual, that they are getting kind of exposed to maybe a new idea or a new concept. And so, yeah, it definitely can happen and you can feel a little jaded about that. But that's really what I think fuels a lot of speakers, is the impact that they can make, the, the learning that they can impart, and that that's what they're drawn to. Keep doing it. Because as you discuss, there's a lot of unglamorous sides to it. A lot of travel, a lot of time not on stage where some people might feel that connection and adrenaline and a lot more time on your own and in between and, you know, not so, not so much fun all the time.

You know, I think there's, there's two talks that I gave that stand out above all the other in terms of their results. And one of them was I got asked to do a TED length talk. It wasn't a TED talk for the TED brand thing, but it was a TED length talk at a TED length kind of an event. And it was going to be 400 people. And I knew quite a few of them. I knew the audience and I wasn't sure what to say, But I'd been given, I begged for and then been given this slot. And I knew that it would really help me with a new business, new stage of my career. And so I hired an old friend to coach me a little bit and she was really great. And she said, okay, who's your audience? And then what do you want to leave them with? A little bit. And I said, well, kind of this. And it still wasn't very clear. And she's like, okay, so give me like three stories or a few stories that you have around this topic. And I just shared with her. She's like, okay, just go tell those stories and then kind of tie it together with like one slide at the end where you say how they all came interconnect, you know, and. And I like, did that. And people were like, you know, it was a total mic drop moment. So we opened with the most like arresting, like, oh, I can't believe we're going there story. And then we went through some of the others and there was laughter and tears and all that kind of thing. And then boom, like one kind of thing. And I think I got booked to do somewhere around 23 to 30 more speaking gigs almost immediately after that thing from other people who heard about it, you know, like, that was awesome. But then I got some of them and they said, well, we like that, but we don't. Could you give us a talk about this? And I took that and instead of using it like a politician and twisting it back to what had worked, I like went with what they asked for kind of thing. And. And some of those didn't go so well, right? They got into the sort back to that boring zone of like just sort of utilitarian thing. Right. And that's the thing that I love when people get up and do tell me stories and then somehow figure out how to connect them back to your point or whatever your. Your framework that you've got and you.

Are the expert, you know, and this happens. I've seen it happen with clients where the person reaches out and they're like, if. If the event planner is ever over involved in trying to craft the keynote, and the keynote presenter doesn't hold firm in knowing how to best present the material and maybe try to incorporate the ideas, but taking fully their direction. It almost always fails again and again because it's not authentic to you. It's not where you're feeling most comfortable. And that person, nine times out of 10, isn't even the stakeholder. They're the person that's coordinating the event. They're trying to communicate, they're trying to think what their boss wants to hear or what someone wants to hear. And they're really worried that you're, you know, you got to stick to this one thing and what they bring you in for is doing it your way. And like, that's what I. Where I see people shine Where I can see there's, you know, some of my best clients are always asking those same questions. Of course, who's the audience? How do you want them to feel? Or what do you want them to do differently as a result of this talk? And they go deep into, you know, being able to tailor to that audience. But that's like 10, 20% of the talk. The rest is, you know, the meat and potatoes of what you. The stories you share, the. The, you know, then, like you said, how you tie it all together. And yeah, I definitely caution speakers for. For, you know, letting people steer too much. And it's a delicate balance. Of course, you're in the service business and. But it's almost like an artist. Like, you hire an artist to come talk, speak, or come play, or you're not going to say, like, oh, I want you to play this band's songs instead, you know, they're going to play their songs. So that's. That I've seen. And. And I always feel bad for the speakers because generally, yeah, it's not a success and it doesn't lead to more things like you mentioned, which speaking is always going to be. Get more speaking and everything else is, you know, just ancillary to that.

Yeah. You know, online meetings, Zoom and that kind of thing weren't invented in the pandemic, but early in 2000, early in 2020. Right. We all started working mostly on Zoom for a while, unless you were, like, in a grocery store, that kind of thing. Right. And then you were just terrified. But so we all did that, and yet here we are. And I feel like some people took the lessons and they figured out how to upgrade their lighting, camera, mic, etc. And other people missed the boat, missed the memo, like, didn't. What is it that people are still not getting right? What are the right things to do and what are people still not getting right about the whole virtual stage?

Sure, yeah. I mean, that is still a marketplace. I have said often, I think one of the best things that come out of the pandemic was that virtual talks are now here to stay and that there's at least a value attached to them. Before the pandemic, you know, I'd get one or two requests every so often for someone to give a virtual talk. Otherwise it was you know, not something that people were readily paying for, especially at the level that they pay for fees in person. So that shift obviously happened immediately in the pandemic, but after, there's still a demand for that now. I think it has waned. To some extent, because, of course, a lot of meetings are being held in person. They want the speaker there in person, and they're willing to pay the higher price for that. But there's a lot of erg groups, there's a lot of different types of smaller groups or companies that have a lot of remote workers and companies that have offices everywhere, and they just can't afford to always have everyone in the same place at the same time. So virtual really makes sense. But it shouldn't look like this. What I'm doing here is not me giving a virtual talk. The speakers who got it right built in their studios in home. They have a great setup, and you should be standing. You should be standing and giving your talk because you are presenting like you were presenting on stage. So setting up your studio, your home setup in a way that allows you to do that. And the people that started getting booked a lot then for lots of virtual gigs are the ones who adapted and then can show that on their website, through their reels that they've got, you know, great examples of them presenting virtually. That looks beautiful, you know, And I think a lot of people treat it more like sitting down for an interview or doing this or that, and you could probably get by with that. But it's not going to be as great as if you're really moving more naturally and you've got the equipment and the right technology that allows you to do that. The other thing that speakers really need to avoid, because I can tell right away, and the temptation is always going to be there, especially if you're doing it virtually. But don't use a teleprompter. You are not a newscaster. You are not a politician. You are being paid to give one presentation and they want you to deliver it authentically. It's never going to sound as authentic if you're reading it, you're not going to do as well. Practice if you need it to do it that way. But don't let too many of the tools then become a crutch, because that will hurt you in the long run on how well people think you did. You know, you got to be present. And that's part of the art of the virtual engagement. That can be hard for speakers because you're not there with the people in the room and feeling the energy and kind of like knowing how to pace yourself. But like anything, it just takes more practice.

Yeah. You know, so I. I'm actually. I'm using a teleprompter right now, and. But not in the way we Think of a teleprompter, like a politician or a newscaster speaking. I'm using it for the zoom in eye contact, right? Like, oh, my camera's not on there. But I like, I. So, you know, I can see eye contact because your face is pretty much right over the lens. So if I talk to you and then, you know, my notes are on the two sides of it and I can go right to it if I want to see. Like, if you look at the wide angle, you can see I'm actually looking into a thing there. There's not enough there, but you could use that. And there are inexpensive ones today that work. But reading your notes, right? If I were to go over and read the. The notes like verbatim, it would be really awkward. It wouldn't come across as connected and paste. Right. And that kind of thing.

Yeah. And I mean about scripting out your talk, if it helps you to have like an outline or some notes or whatever, great. Like, you get some advantages because you're doing it virtually. I'm just encouraging you not to like type up the entire talk and then just read it out and assume it's going to come across the same way, because it won't.

You know, I was taught. I don't know if you've done this before, but I was taught, and I use sparingly this method today, but with either a particular section or a short talk where I'm going to script it all out, I would script out the entire thing and then I would practice it in the mirror at least 10 times, maybe 50 times, delivering it until I can connect and deliver it in the mirror. And at some point it's sort of memorized. And then at another point I actually throw it away. But I'm never trying to read the notes or even refer to them in real time. I've just done it so much so that you could wake me at three in the morning and I could get up and give that talk. It's so, like, solid. But now I don't have to worry about, like getting every word right. I can just like be like a martial artist who's learned a thing and then it flows through them and, you know, they can kind of just be with the whole thing. But there was scripting design, ridiculous preparation around the whole thing, and now it seems natural, right?

Like, totally. And. And that's. And that's really how a lot of people do it. So I'm not saying never type it up, never script it. And. And I did the same when I was Doing our like final capstone presentation, I got chosen in the group to be the presenter, which was both a heavy and light burden for me. But I practiced so much the day before that it was like you said, it just kind of flowed naturally. I was lucky to go in the morning. Every time I practiced it and like rehearsed or we had formal times in the morning, it could just flow right out of me. And then we, in the afternoons, my mind wasn't, was all muddled and it just, just wouldn't work as well. So I got lucky doing that and it just felt perfect. But if you're someone then that's so rehearsed that if you get derailed, you can't pick back up. It's like you're, you're talking about, it's really mastering it is the flow state of an athlete or an artist, like you know, a piano player. They don't need the, the book in front of them. They know the, they know the notes. But yeah, it's just the only way to do it is practice. And the way to hone the talk better the content is by having an audience. But if you just are comfortable with the words and the content, then yeah, you can practice as much as you can at home.

You know, going back to the technology for a minute. So I upgraded the stuff and my tech setup at home and because I knew I'd be working here a lot and probably continue long after in person meetings. And then we see people like Tony Robbins and he's got a whole like, you know, he's got a multi person production crew that's there doing like a live television event kind of thing. So he's got people, multiple people working on the control and people on the cameras and all that kind of thing. And it's a huge deal. And he's got, you know, a million people out there or whatever. And then in my level is way below that. But I have a video switcher, an audio panel, mic, lights, teleprompter. I've got three cameras and I can insert graphics and things like that either on the screen or an overlay. Like I can do all those kinds of things. But I have a background as a DJ running my own show once upon a time. So running the board and that kind of thing is not a foreign thing. Right, but you would want to do that otherwise. And you could just upgrade, get a little bit better camera, get a little bit better light, get a mic, put it on a stand, put some monitor or something in your ear. Like you could upgrade Just a little bit off the basic things. Or, or even if you're like on the road and you don't have everything, don't put a bright window behind you, put it in front of you, like clean up the shot behind you, like, like basic things. Even if you're just talking to your own company group, I see this all the time. You're like, somebody's in, they got a bright window behind them or whatever. We can't see your face, I can't see your expressions, you know, that kind of thing. Move the thing closer, move the window close to the camera so that you're making better eye contact, you know that. Pick the, the thing up off the stage. Like connect with human beings. If you can't connect with yourself, you certainly are not going to connect with anyone else.

That's right. Yeah. That sounds like this is. Things that people should already be so familiar with, but.

Right, but do always. And I, I love it when I come across somebody and I'm like, okay, you're ready, you're ready to talk and be present and that kind of thing. So you. One of the other things you talked about in our prep and our notes and that kind of thing was a speaker in the healthcare industry and I think that'd be a great. Before we run out of time, share one more story with us about how they grew from just doing small things and then to paid gigs and. So why don't you tell us about that?

Sure, yeah. I've got a lot of different clients in different sectors, so one of the clients that I've worked with for a long time has been an entrepreneur many times over and now is more in the healthcare space. So her background has been in like computer science and AI and been doing that for 20 plus years and you know, starting back in undergrad and been talking about different ways that AI and machine learning and all of that, you know, can impact technology, etc. Like what a lot of people are talking about now. But two of her latest startups are more in the healthcare field and is applying these different AI tools to pairing with epigenetics to develop the first postpartum depression test. So something that's not usually easily tested for and treated in advance and other things like that that have created kind of a new channel of speaking and starting with like local organizations and associations and in leveraging speaking as a way to talk more about the startup which has led to NIH grants and other funding models and other connections through that space that wasn't a native space for her Coming from more of like the tech specific world, the diversity world, the academic world. But leveraging, you know, some of her expertise in these other areas and then applying it to healthcare has advanced like on other sides of her mission other than just the speaking opportunity as well. So I think that's, you know, one area I've seen where people can leverage speaking strategically. This is kind of my, my whole thing is like, don't just look for paid opportunities. It's more about who is the audience and is it, you know, an ROI on that engagement? Is it more, more than just the paycheck to be there? Is there more that could come from that opportunity? Because most of the time if you're just trying to make money off the engagements, you're not going to be satisfied with what you could typically earn. It takes a while to get up to the same level as what you're probably hoping for. But if you use it strategically and your speaking is helping either your coaching, your consulting, your digital courses, your books, your anything B2C or B2B, then any engagement can be worth six figures or more, just depending on if it's that right audience for you. So I think a lot of people get kind of blinded by like, oh wow, these big keynote fees and I can make ten grand a thing and then you're flying around and you know, collecting checks. But it doesn't always add up to all that much if you're not actually fueling and building a pipeline from there. So I think, I think people often are really focused on, just like I said, trying to think that they can talk to anyone, that they've like, they can really speak on a lot of things and they struggle to connect. They struggle to connect and build an audience. Like you have to be very intentional about where you're drawing, delivering value or solving problems for these audiences. You should want to hear me talk about this.

You know, I think that's a really good call out. Like I have friends who regularly make 45, 75, 150,000 for their talks. Right. These are really great, consistent speakers. They're doing it again and again and again and they still have a back end of something they sell or you know, things that, other ways that they monetize their talk. The, the middle one, the 75, one less so the lower and the, the 45 and 40 and the, and the 151. For sure they're selling other things in addition to getting a thing. But their craft is so developed, they are really great and their names to varying degrees that you would Know and recognize and want to book. So booking them and spending that money will pull people into your event. You book Bill Gallagher. To think, you know, I'm not going to be like a big draw. Not enough people know my name, right? I, I wish that was different, but, you know, I'm not like a name in myself. But there are other people who have been, you know, world stage big authors, that kind of thing. And they are well known and they will draw, they have massive social followings or whatever. It is like that and they will draw people in. But I gave a talk once for airfare, right? Airfare and Oneida Hotel. And I spoke in the 90s and I gave a contrarian talk at a tech conference and I was saying something different than everybody else. And enough people there were like, oh, thank God somebody said that, or whatever. And I booked about $300,000 of work within the next hour to. After that talk, right? I did it again at another major conference, doesn't exist anymore in Vegas. And I booked another few hundred thousand dollars, right? I got paid nothing for that. I had to drive myself and buy my own hotel room. But they're like, hey, you could come talk at Comdex, right? So I'm like, okay, I'm there. And I think sometimes getting paid nothing for something is one of your most lucrative talks, right?

Definitely. And I love that. And that's a great example of how this, how this all works is, you know, in the bureau world, if they said, well, we don't pay our speakers, you know, it's, it's just a huge marketing opportunity. The bureau said, oh, that's great, nice, see you later. But that could be the biggest opportunity that speaker ever had because you're in front of all these leaders, you're in front of all the people that are the decision makers. And even I love your point about being the contrarian, because if you're a yoga instructor, you're like, you know, into like mindset breath work. Don't go to the yoga breath work conference where everyone's saying the same thing. Go to the stressed out people's conference and be the thing that they need. So thinking about it strategically, you, you want to put yourself not in a room of just like minded people who are all talking about the same thing. It kind of comes back to that thinking, everyone knows what you know. In that case they do. So no one needs you. You got to go where you're something new and different and, and so again, hopefully solving a problem for them that isn't the what everyone else is talking about at that event. And guess what? That event that I'm talking about might be, you know, a group that asks you to pay to speak at their event and that then turns into multimillion dollar contracts or hundreds of thousands. But that's another model. Getting paid, you know, is one. And you can ask for the least. You cannot really ask for much from them. They're paying you. You got to do what they want you to do. And you can hopefully, you know, develop an ongoing relationship and you know, figure out a way to and get a QR code into your presentation and hopefully as much of the audience will get on your email list. And you know, I like to be strategic that way. Get your B2C goals met and advance your B2B goals. But then if it's a free event, like you're saying, okay, we're not going to pay you, but great, I'm going to get, I'll talk for free. But will I get the list of all the attendees? Will I get, you know, will you send out an email on my behalf with a link to this or this? Like ask for things that matter. Don't ask for, you know, lanyards and your logo on a step and repeat or on a tote bag. You know, go for something higher. And that's the third is like actually paying, actually sponsoring an event. That's where you have the most leverage. Look on their website for this event. What are they charging for sponsorships? What do you get for this silver sponsorship? Okay, well if I don't care about this lanyard and I don't care about this or that, would you give me xyz? Would you do a post? Would you do this, that or the other? You can barter these things. You can negotiate these things. These are businesses that are run by people buying sponsorships. These events are run in that business model. If you want to go into corporate, then yeah, you're going to have to figure out who makes the decisions there and make friends with the bureaus and it's a whole, a whole nother channel. All of these other ways you can go direct and they might be your. And they, if you're especially coming in the door as a potential sponsor or partner, they will have all the data on their attendees. If they're a good event, if they're an established event. Don't go to a brand new event and invest a lot of money. Go to an event that's been doing it for a few years. At least they have a track record of attendance. They can show you their demographics and who they attract and then you will have that information up front. So there's a lot of different ways that yeah, as a speaker you might pay for one gig because it's going to be in front of all your people and that makes the rest of your year. Or you might, you know, do a few pro bono things because they're strategic. And that's exactly what I mean when I think that this is a strategic speaking instead of just okay, I only I won't leave my house or get on a stage if I don't get at least X amount of dollars. Like if that's where you're at, great. But that doesn't always mean you're making the best use of your time.

Well, recapping to close wherever you're at is a great place to start. So begin there and then start moving up from there. But get out in front of all kinds of audiences. Be open to trying things. Think about who needs your message and go there with that. Get lots of practice and build that practice. And they are thinking about the audience, the venue, the environment. Blair Bryant Nichols bbncreativemanagement.com is the website and the link. We'll put it there on the show. We'll put it in the show notes as well, but worth checking out if you would like to up your game in speaking for strategic purposes for your company and whatever you're working on. Listen, it's been great talking to you Blair. If you like the show, that kind of thing, there's 600 more wherever you got this now go like subscribe turn on your notifications so you get it every week. Go to our website scalingcoach.com and you can sign up for our not only our newsletter, but we do a workshop every month where we kind of get started in some of the things to do with scaling up. Anyway, I hope that's been helpful. Big thanks to my friend and mentor Vern Harnish who created the whole Scaling up framework to begin with and to the folks at Store on who produce our show each week. Christel there in the background today, Seth Cameron and all the folks at Storeon. We'll talk to you again next time. Keep scaling. Are you ready to turn your goals into daily wins? You should check out our Scoreboard software. Powered by alignment, it's the official software for Scaling Up. With scoreboard you'll get an AI driven coach for priorities and KPIs and it'll help keep your team focused on what matters most. With Align you can track your goals in real time and you'll even see results on the go with their mobile app. You can rest easy knowing that Align has world class onboarding and support to set your team up for success. This is really more than just software, it's what I actually use to manage growth in our scaling up client teams. Unlock clarity and results with scoreboard by Aligned. To try it now, go to aligntoday. Com Bill G One more time. Aligntoday. Com Bill G that's aligntoday. Com BillG Check it out and try it now.