13: Cancer Survivor and Multiple Olympic Gold Medalist // The Story of Shannon Miller

I think oftentimes we're hesitant to ask for help or even accept help because we don't want to be a burden. We don't want to complain, we don't want to put others out, we don't want to make others lives stressful because of something we're dealing with. And I know that's something I battled is I didn't want what I was going through to affect other people. The biggest advice I can give is just keep pushing. Know that you are not alone and that there are people out there willing to step in and help. So do not be afraid to ask. Do not be hesitant to accept that help. Do it because you may get the chance and you may already have had the chance to help someone else.

Welcome to From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. I'm your host Eric Gilbert Williams and this is the podcast where we explore personal stories of people who hit absolute truth rock bottom, then got back up, wiped off the dust, kicked failure to the curb, and now they're rocking it like you'd never believe if you didn't hear it. Live Right here we cover subjects in business, sports and life in general. If you like this podcast, please share it. These interviews are intended to inspire, to motivate, to give hope and vision. So please share this episode with someone who needs it. Use your Instagram account, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn hint, hand signals, trained pigeon sent smoke signals up in the air. Use morse code, whatever you like, just share the love and share this episode. Also, email me anytime. Podcastericilbertwilliams.com Send me questions you would like to have asked of future guests and I will incorporate them. Or just send me some suggestions on how to run a better podcast. Or just say hello, I'd love to hear from you. That's podcastricilbertwilliams. I know you're going to love today's interview, so let's get started with us here today on From Rock Bottom, the Rockin it is seven time Olympic medalist winning five of them consecutively in the 1992 Olympics, Shannon Miller. Shannon won an astounding 59 international and a further 49 national competition medals. And if that wasn't enough, she also won the fight against cancer which threatened her life. And perhaps that was the most challenging obstacle to overcome of them all, which I'm going to ask her about very soon now Shannon focuses all of her time motivating people across the country. As a professional speaker. You can reach out to her to book her for one of your events. Well, maybe not right now with COVID happening, but you know what I mean. And she will talk to your audience about perseverance, because Shannon knows all about perseverance, both in the competition realm and personally as well. You can also check out her book called It's Not About Being Perfect. And her philanthropic initiative to bring awareness to the subject of childhood obesity, helping kids who are struggling with it. Shannon, welcome to the show. I really appreciate having you here.

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

Hey, yeah. I'm really happy to have you here. And your story is just incredible. It covers so many subjects. I have to figure out where to start, because the show here is called From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. I think the most logical place is if you can explain to me in your own words what was your absolute rock bottom moment.

I think as an athlete, we tend to think about tough injuries. For me, there was a broken elbow 10 weeks before the 1992 Olympic trials. We think about the times you want to give up, but I think for me, looking throughout my life, probably my rock bottom moment, there's probably two that are equal. And that was the first one was kind of that portion in between finding out that I had an ovarian cyst and figuring out that it was cancer. And it's kind of. For those that have gone through something similar or have a family member that's gone through something similar, they call it the wait and observe period. And it's excruciating. It is that moment, that timeframe, typically about four to six weeks, where you have no idea what your future holds. You have no idea what's going to happen next. You have no idea how bad or good the news is going to be. And it's kind of like you're stuck in this weird place of kind of walking through fog and not knowing and so many questions and so few answers. And I think for me, that was a particularly difficult time because you feel like life is going on all around you, and yet you can't move forward until you have some concrete news about what's going on. And so that was a really rock bottom moment.

And you're just sitting, waiting, not sure.

Right you are. You're waiting. It is. Don't move too fast. Don't run, don't do yoga. You don't want it to twist or rupture. We've got to figure out what this is. And so you're kind of walking around like a zombie. And at that point, my son was about 13, 14 months old, and it was, is my son going to have a Mother. And that's really, really difficult. That was a challenging, challenging portion. Then I did end up finding out that it was cancer. Through surgery, I found that out. And I think at that point, something kind of changed. And I went from kind of this victim mentality where everything's happening to me to, I think, reverting back to that competitive mentality that I knew so well through sport and through training. And that was, okay, we know what it is. They had actually caught mine early, and the prognosis was pretty good. I would need to go through a pretty aggressive chemotherapy regimen. And so I think at that point it was, okay, let's get in the mindset of goal setting, get in the mindset of that competitive athlete that, okay, you don't really know where you're going to end up. But what do I have to do today? What can I control? How hard can I work? And so for me, at that point, it was, you know, just getting enough protein and hydration. I couldn't do much physically after the surgery, but it was also getting in the right mindset. I've got chemotherapy. It was going to be a very aggressive therapy, and I've just got to get through that. And so it was okay. The pep talk. So I've worked out 40 plus hours a week for as long as I can remember. I can do this. Hey, you are an Olympic gold medalist. You can do this. And you kind of tell yourself anything and you prop yourself up. And then the first week of chemotherapy happened. And that was, I think, the toughest week of my entire life, thus far, at least.

And this is that saying where the best laid battle plans don't survive first contact with the enemy.

It's true. Reality hits. And it knocked me on my backside in that first week. By the end of treatment that week, I could not keep down food. I could not keep down water. I was put back in the hospital, hooked up to IVs. I'm not even sure how many nausea medications, and not one of them even phased me. And I remember that night, clear as day, lying there in that hospital bed. It was just me. My husband had taken our son home to put him to bed. And I was just lying there in this dark, quiet room, the only sound, the soft beeping of the machines in the background. And I just remember thinking, I cannot do this. I don't know how to do this. And at that moment, a nurse walked in, and I cannot tell you what she did or said. I just remember that moment. And it was kind of that moment, that cartoon light Bulb comes on over your head. And I saw the word team, and I just realized that was the portion I was forgetting about. I knew that I was not alone. And it wasn't just the medical staff, but it was friends and family, neighbors, people that are willing to step in and help out as much as possible. And I think for me, it was that realization that I am truly not in this alone. My faith is first and foremost. I knew in the grand scheme of things, I wasn't alone, but understanding that there were people there every single day willing to help out, and that not only was I did I have this great team around me, but I was a part of that team. And I think as a team member, you have to contribute. So I couldn't just lie there and feel sorry for myself. There are days you want to do that and you can, and that's fine, but then you get back up to figure out a way to take that next forward step. And I think that recharged me, and it kind of brought me out of that isolation. And I think that's a big thing. When you do hit that rock bottom, you do feel isolated. No matter what the circumstance is, whether it's a health challenge, a financial challenge, anything else, you feel isolated. You feel like you're the only one that's going through this. And it is difficult to realize that you are not. It is reality that you are not. You know that in your brain. But to really feel that you are not alone is so important. And I think what I learned during that time was not only that I wasn't alone, but people were offering help. And as difficult as it is for many of us to accept help, we not only needed to accept it, but we also needed to reach out when we do need help, and that there are so many people that are just waiting for that opportunity to reach out and help you. We just have to ask or just accept it.

We're talking about human nature here, that inherent energy inside each of us that just, you know, that motivation. We want to just help people. We want to be helpful. We want to do good things. We want to do good things in the world. And there's this trust here that human nature comes from a good, positive place. And I feel like you're saying when you're alone, you kind of forget that. And there's people out there that feel like people don't want to help or that help doesn't exist out there, or that human nature isn't good. And some people believe that they're a victim of not only their own illness. They don't just feel alone, that they feel like they're a victim of people's mal intent as well.

And I think oftentimes we are hesitant to ask for help or even accept help because we don't want to be a burden. We don't want to complain, we don't want to put others out. We don't want to make other lives stressful because of something we're dealing with. And I know that's something I battled is I didn't want what I was going through to affect other people. I didn't feel comfortable with them kind of catering to me. It just. I'm used to, I'll do it myself. I've got this. And I think a lot of us have that innate mentality that, no, I'll do this myself. I can get it done. I don't want to burden anyone. And I think sometimes that's the case as well, is you just don't realize that giving people something to do, giving people a way to help is also important. And I've been on both sides of that. My mother is a cancer survivor. I have friends that have gone through it, and not just cancer, but certainly other challenging issues. And it's all I can do to just, what can I do? Can I bring you food? And even right now, I mean, this week, can I drop toilet paper off at your house? Whatever. Can I bring you a hot meal? Can I leave it outside your doorstep? What is it that we can do for each other? But on the other side of that is we also have to be willing to accept that help when it's offered.

You said earlier that you had this broken elbow 12 weeks before tryouts. Would you say that this battle here that you had with cancer was something like that times a million, or was this a completely different phase, like a whole different spectrum, and you just can't compare the two in any way at all?

I don't know that you can really compare the two, because when you're 14, 15 years old and you break your elbow 10 weeks prior to all the trials, and you have trained for this for so many years, and this is your shot, and you may not get another one, it does feel like this is it. I think my parents did a really good job of helping me understand that sport is sport, not sport is life, and kind of keeping my priorities in check with education along with gymnastics, so I don't think I ever felt, oh, my gosh, my life is over if I don't make an Olympic team. It was really never that catastrophic. But at the same time, you're an athlete at the top of your game. You're in the mix to be on an Olympic team, to represent your entire country in this amazing Olympic movement, and you do something silly on an event one night at practice, and it can all be wiped out. So it's not a good time. It's very difficult. It taught me a lot about myself and how much I was willing to give and train and how hard I was willing to work and how much I really did want it. And I think it was a turning point in my career in many ways. And it's something I look back to when I did go through the cancer portion. That's one of the things I look back to. Not that you could equate sports injury to cancer, but the mentality of, you're knocked down, all right, let's find a way to get back up. You don't know where it's going to finish. You don't know if you're going to make the team. You don't know what's going to happen if you even make it to the Olympics. But what can I do today to just take that next step? And that's kind of what I learned from that, that's now helped me in all of the other challenges that I've faced.

There's some big takeaways here for everyone listening to this right now. And I hope that you anchor this in your mind, the subject of reaching out for help and allowing yourself to accept and receive that help and taking this one step at a time and switching this mentality from the victim into I can do something and what can I do? I'm making mental notes right now. And would you say, Shannon, that these are mentalities and perspectives that you learned as a professional athlete, or did you learn these somewhere else and you're just incorporating them through life as you go?

I think it's a little bit of a mix, I don't think. And I talk when I go out and speak to, whether it's corporations or speak with regard to cancer awareness or cancer funding or anything else, I talk about the gold medal mindset. And I do not believe that you have to have been an Olympic gold medalist to have that gold medal mindset. It is just that reminder of things that we really already know, but we have to put into practice every single day. Things like goal setting. Not just the long term goals, the short term goals, the smart goals. But I think one of the things that's often left out of that Goal setting conversation is the importance of follow through. It's not enough to know what we need to do. We have to do what we need to do each and every day if we really want to see those results. And that's the hard part. The hard part is getting up and doing the small stuff, the stuff that's not that exciting. And it's funny, I talk to athletes and I won't get too far afield, but I talk to companies, to executives about that sparkly leotard moment is what I call it. And basically that's the moment that, you know, you think about when you watch the Olympics, you know, the athletes, we put on our sparkly leotards, we go out there, the big moment, and it's a great moment. You walk out there into the arena and there's a zillion people cheering for you. What's not to love? But I always remind people that that's really not the moment. Because the moment that matters most happened back in the gym. The hot, sweaty, smelly, stinky gym doing routine after routine after routine when nobody was watching, where there were no cameras, there were no lights, there were no judges, there was just your own sweat and your own work and whether or not you were going to do the job. And I think that's oftentimes what we have to remember is the fun stuff happens, the exciting stuff happens, the big presentation, the getting the job, the winning whatever it is that you think of as the culmination that doesn't happen without all of the hard work and preparation before that. It's important to realize the goal setting and the teamwork and the positive mental attitude and the commitment to excellence each and every day, even in the small stuff is so important in life just as much as it is when you're talking about sports.

And as soon as we come back from this short break, I want to talk specifically about that and explore how you apply this mental conditioning and this approach to life so that you could ultimately achieve and experience this rockin it moment and to do as much great stuff as you've done. I want to hear what your absolute rockin it moments are. And maybe that's going to surprise me, maybe it won't be what I expected. I'd like to find out that and much, much more as soon as we come back from this short break. Hey everyone, Eric. Here on From Rock Bottom, the Rockin it. On today's episode, I decided to support the organization called the center for Addiction and Mental Health. And I'm gonna put up their website on the background here so you can check them out. And it's just a CAMH CA. So www.camh.ca. there's obviously a lot of resources here specifically related to COVID 19. I strongly encourage you to check out the website when you need help. If someone needs help, go here. If you're struggling whatsoever, there's a lot of resources and you don't have to be alone in all of this. So check out the website. I'm sure that you're going to enjoy it and a little bit about them to help support the public mental health throughout this critical time. There's a multidisciplinary team of CAMH experts that has helped to work and develop with connecting people with vital information and resources, including the new mental Health and COVID 19 pandemic webpage. There's an education hub for Canadians and again at CAMH ca. And this pandemic is affecting all of us in very different ways. If you're struggling, check it out. I encourage you. And now back to the show. We're back now here on From Rock Bottom to Rockin it with Shannon Miller. Thanks again for joining us today. Tell me and tell us, everyone listening here, tell us, what is your rockin it moment memory? What was the time? And tell us about a time where you knew that you were just now rockin it in life after overcoming these challenges.

I've been fortunate to have a lot of rockin it moments.

In a way, you've had hundreds of rockin it moments.

I try to be positive in person and have a positive mindset. So, you know, rockin it for me was the first time that I was able to put on the red, white and blue leotard to go out there, compete for my country. I mean, that was an amazing moment to make a national team. This little girl from Oklahoma with skinny legs and bent knees and big hair. I got to make an Olympic or got to make a national team. So there's that. It's learning a new skill. I mean, for me that was the best feeling was to learn a new skill, to be able to accomplish it. After a thousand falls and you finally get that one, you got it. Every stuck landing there is just nothing like sticking a landing, especially at a competition. It is one of those great feelings you have all those little moments and of course those big moments of competing and even winning a medal at the Olympic Games, certainly the magnificent seven, my teammates winning the first gold medal for women's gymnastics at Olympic Games in 1996 was incredible. And following that up with balance beam gold was just amazing. So I have all those, I think, in life. For me, starting my own business and realizing that I could do this, graduating from law school, that was a rocking it moment. That would be certainly both my kids, I think motherhood, you always have your ups and downs of motherhood, but being able to see them and watch them learn and grow, it's just incredible. You know, we talked about kind of the lows and the rock bottom moments with regard to the cancer journey. And I would say my rocking it moment with that was really about a year later, about a year, maybe a little bit over a year after I finished chemotherapy. And my doctor had said after therapy it's going to take six months to a year to really feel like yourself again. So don't rush it. Just understand and be patient. And I thought, well, great, I'll do it in three months. As for the competitor, but it really did take a full year, if not more. And so for me, well, funny story. It's funny now, now that time has passed. Right after I finished chemotherapy, actually a couple months later, I was asked if I would do the commentary and analysis for the 2012 Olympic Games. And I thought, I really don't feel good right now. I'm taking naps every day. I have tremendous fatigue. I'm dealing with all of these things. But hey, nine months, ten months from now, I'm going to feel great. No problem. I sign up for it. And a couple of months before the Olympic Games, I really had that moment where I thought, I don't think I can be prepared for this. When you talk about the Olympics and working the Games, on the analysis side, it's often 12, 14, 16 hour days between studying and being on air and then doing 50,000 other things. And I thought, I'm still taking naps, I'm still having to lay down each day. I'm fighting not only the fatigue, but the nausea. There were still a lot of things I couldn't keep down. The neuropathy, the chemo brain. Am I going to remember words to say during a live broadcast? And I had a ton of sticky notes at my booth just to make sure I could grasp those words when I needed it. But I ended up making it through. And not only making it through, but realizing that I was much more prepared and much stronger than I thought that I was. And I thought that I could be. And I think that was a really rocking moment for me, was just understanding that I could come out of this stronger both mentally and possibly even physically than I had Ever been earlier you.

Alluded to how you have this moment, and after all this work, it comes down to this one moment, funny little story, and then a question. So I used to compete in Salsa Cabaret in an amateur division. And I would come back after work and train really hard all evening and five days a week, and me and my partner would just get all sweaty and practicing and training together. And then we would travel around and go to different competitions in North America. And one time there was this one competition in Las Vegas and we won. Right. We're so happy that it finally all came together. And afterwards we're laughing because months and months of training literally came down to just a couple minutes on stage. And what my partner and I did is just a tiny, tiny fraction of what you went through for years and years and dozens of years in your life. There's almost no comparison. But I can relate in this tiny, minuscule way. So on that subject, tell me what you think about that moment where you're actually on stage versus the journey to get there. All those years and weeks and days and hours and evenings and mornings and afternoons of that hard work, that journey to get to that two minute moment where you're on stage and you're performing and you're being judged. Right. Tell me what you think about that moment versus the journey. Which of those two is more important?

I think the journey is always more important. The moment is icing on the cake and sometimes it's there and sometimes it's not. And I think again, that was one of the things that my parents helped me understand was kind of that balance and the priorities. So if I just totally lost, derailed a competition, fell all over the place, it was not a reflection of me as a person. It was, yep, you had a bad day and get back in the gym and see what else you can do, try again, make some corrections and get back out there for the next one and hope that there is a next one that you can go compete at. But I think for me, the moments are incredibly special. But it's the journey that I think about most. You know, we talk about 25 or so years out from my Olympic experience. And I think it really is interesting how your mentality of things changes once you've had some space. And for me, looking back, the friendships that I made, yes, the struggles and yes, the exciting portions, but it's that day to day training, it's the people you meet, it's the bonding that's the made, it's the skills you've learned. It's the life lessons you've learned. Those are all the things that you keep with you. The medals are great, no doubt, but I look at my career as how can I utilize the things I went through to now do more, help others, challenge myself in other ways. It's not that the gold medal is a stopping point. It's just a springboard to move on to other things and it doesn't happen. That doesn't mean that you can't go on and do incredible other things. I think oftentimes we talk about and people hear about, but we really have to take it to heart. We learn so much more through our failures than we ever do from our successes. It's funny to watch this in my own children, when they win something or they do a good job on a test or whatnot, or they ace their homework, they're very excited. But then when they have times where they struggle, they think all is lost and they have to remind them, no, it's the work. If you're always winning, you're never challenging yourself. You gotta lose, you've gotta fail in order to learn more, do better. And I think that's an important thing that we have to learn in life. And sometimes we get into this mode where we feel like that we're not allowed to fail, especially in this day of social media.

Yeah, hide it, don't tell anyone, be ashamed of it. Tuck it under the carpet, pretend it's never there. We're all going through this lockdown right now and there's a ton of rock bottom moments out there. I hope that there's not going to be many rock bottom moments, but looks like definitely there are and will be a lot more coming up. So how do we deal with that type of shame? I mean, I feel like you hit the nail right on the head here. It's about the journey and that concept doesn't apply just to sports. People everywhere are just doing their daily business. Maybe they have a business or maybe they screwed up this really important sales meeting. They nailed the sales meeting, great. But the client said no anyways for factors outside of their control. Or you're in a marriage and it's not going well, or going through a divorce, or you have an illness of your own, or you went bankrupt for some reason. You know, there's people listening to the show here that I also interview that have gone through all of this stuff. The question that I have as a thought provoking question, are you on the journey that you want to be on? Are you happy with this journey? You have now, if we separate the end goal and the vision that you're trying to create in the future, if we separate all of that out completely, are you happy now on the journey that you're on right now or not? Maybe that's worth asking yourself and meditating on for a little bit.

Absolutely. And just because you've had one goal doesn't mean that it is the only goal. And sometimes you do need to switch gears and do some soul searching or figure out what that next different path is. It may not be what you expected. It may end up better than ever.

And there's only one way to find out. It's going through it with this positive mindset. I'm going to ask you, Shannon, what you think a positive mindset is, and we'll see how close or different we are. To me, a positive mindset, it's not about ignoring the facts of reality and trying to sugarcoat something that isn't good at all. It's not about that. To me, the positive mindset is about what good exists right now in reality, in spite of everything else that I'm not happy about. What is that little bit of a good thing? And what can I do with it? What can I turn it into? Can I amplify it and help it grow like a seedling and help it develop roots into a strong tree? Like develop it into a strong tree? What can I do today to help create a stronger tomorrow, a more positive tomorrow? That's, to me, the essence of what a positive mindset is. And what is it to you?

No, I think you're right. And that's what I always try to remind people. They talk about my positive attitude and it's not that we paste on a smile and we're simply cheery, but it is finding that inner joy. There are just very few times in life, and I would argue that there really are no times in life where there is not something good, something to find joy in, somewhere, somehow, no matter how small. And there were days during chemo that simply waking up, I was overjoyed that I could wake up and see my son. And that was enough. So it is so difficult, especially when you do hit those very real rock bottom moments, many that you were just talking about that people experience all the time. Every day people are experiencing rock bottom moments and they can be incredibly challenging and difficult and feel like you're the only one going through that, or you've let your family down, you've let your work down, and it's so difficult to find the good and Find the joy. But we've got to do that. That's the only way forward. It's the only way to dig yourself out. It's the only way to keep moving, get that next step, and in turn, that really difficult challenge. And we hear about it all the time, people coming from nothing and reworking, reinventing their selves and finding incredible success in a variety of different areas they never imagined possible, and it wouldn't have been possible without them actually hitting rock bottom. It's hard. I mean, there's no way around it, but there is a way. And finding that joy and being able to find the good and rework things in your mind and having that pity party, have that pity party, but then find that way to take that next forward step.

Every morning for me, in order to try and maintain this positive mindset, this positive perspective, and probably not every day of the week, but five days a week or so, I do a little journaling exercise. I open up my journal and I write down three things that I feel very grateful for. And it's not enough to just write it. Like I have to feel it emotionally, what words I'm putting on the paper. And sometimes it's really simple and as. And silly as well. Something like, I'm really grateful that I had a comfortable bed to sleep in. And it's the experience for me of practicing and finding things that are good so that I can start my day with that mindset of already having found some fuel in the pipeline, for lack of a better word, a little bit of positive momentum that's already started right away. So anyways, that's one of my personal tricks. And, Shannon, do you have a little trick, something like that, that may be very different, but what do you do to keep yourself in a positive direction? Or do you only maybe dip into that toolkit? And only when you really need it? When you were having those medical issues and you were saying and thinking that you're really grateful that I have my son, what do you do on a normal day?

I think the tendency is to kind of dip into it when you need it, but that's kind of being behind the curve for me. I do something very similar in the morning, while I don't write it. When I wake up, I just keep my eyes closed. And for five or ten minutes before the day gets started and the kids get up and it gets crazy and hectic and start looking at my to do list for that day that seems to be endless all the time, I just take that five to ten minutes and say, my prayers and be thankful. I just try to list out some of those things that I'm really thankful for that I'm grateful for. And what are those things that I can do to kind of proactively show that I grateful for these blessings again, no matter how big or small they seem. And it just tends to set the stage for the day. And it's a little bit easier when things get a little bit crazy. It's a little bit easier to come back to that place if you've kind of set that stage, that foundation to begin with.

Really good stuff here, Shannon. And if we shift gears here for a moment, going back to early inspirations, when did you know that you wanted to become a professional athlete and how did your parents respond to this? Like, what was that moment like?

Well, I think I was always active. I was actually born with my legs turned in. And so I had to wear this metal bar as a baby. And they weren't sure I was going to walk or walk correctly or on time if I did walk. And my mom tells a story that I saw my older sister and of course I was going to keep up with her. So there was no bar that was going to slow me down.

And what do you mean by a bar? Like, are we talking like a Forrest Gump style bar here? Because, true story. I actually had bars on both of my legs on like a spring system to keep my legs, my feet pointed outwards because I think the word's pigeon toed, right?

Yes. I used to still have it. It's little white booties. And they turned my legs out. And then there's a metal bar that goes across to kind of keep.

Okay, wow, I had that too. I really thought it was just me and Forrest Gump that had that. I mean, obviously that's a silly thought, but I didn't expect or I didn't expect that you would have had that as well.

I did. And so my mom tells the story and she said, I think just having to do that extra effort to keep up with your older sister, she's two years older. She said, you just were more active than ever. And I always followed my sister. And at the age of five, I had begged and pleaded to be in dance. When she went to dance, I wanted to go. And finally my parents caved. And then after dance, my parents had actually decided to try to put us in gymnastics because we were going to hurt ourselves on the backyard trampoline they had found at a garage sale. And this was not. There was no netting, there were no spring Pads at the time.

Yeah, back then, you just flip over the fence and, you know, land with the dog or whatever.

So they were worried about both the trampoline and their furniture. And so they took us to just a local recreational gymnastics club. And I followed my sister into it. And a few months later, she decided she wanted to go into swimming. She didn't want to do this gymnastic thing, but I had fallen in love. I mean, I got to jump in pits and run and flip and, I mean, it was just candy store. I wanted to live there. A few months later, my parents were asked by the coaches if they would bring me a little bit more often. I was only going one hour a week. And could you bring her more? You know, she's showing that she loves it and she's got some talent. And they said, no, fine. And I begged again. And my dad finally said, look, I'll just take her. And you know what? If I take her now, she's gonna get tired of it, and then that's the end of it. And we don't have to argue about it. And so he started taking me more often. And of course, 20 years later, I was still doing it. But I just love that.

Backfired.

It backfired in a big way. A big way.

In the biggest way, probably hundreds of times. So now there's situations, and I've seen a bunch of YouTube videos on this, where sometimes it's the opposite. Sometimes it's the parents who want the child to become successful for fill in the blank, whatever reason. And sometimes those motivations are healthy, and sometimes they're very much not. For simplicity's sake, I'm just grouping everyone together here. What's your view as a parent here now on encouraging your kids to find their passion, whatever that passion happens to be? How would you compare that dynamic to, say, some of the not so pleasant stories we hear about out there?

First of all, I would say parenthood is not for the faint of heart. Most of the time, you're doing something wrong.

Thanks for the warning. I've been fairly warned. Now, I'm not a parent yet, but I'll remember that.

Oh, yes, warning. So big warning. And you never feel like you're making the right decision and something like this. It's a very fine line. And I feel like, again, kind of going back to my parents, because that's my world, that's what I was introduced with. I felt like they did a really good job kind of looking back, of having that fine line, kind of walking that fine line of really allowing me to take the lead. And I did. I mean, I love gymnastics. And again, I begged to go and my parents were very clear that gymnastics is not life and education comes first. So I understood from the very beginning, so that if I wasn't keeping my grades up, if I wasn't focused on education, I didn't get the reward of getting to go to the gym. That kind of set the stage very early. And so I always kept up with my schoolwork and whatnot, but it helped me have that balance, understanding that sport was sport, school was school, my family was going to love me no matter what happened at either of them. And I think that balance is really important. The fact is that it doesn't matter how talented your child is, if they're not getting a well balanced lifestyle. It's not a good recipe because at some point sport will end. Now. It may end in the best way ever. It may end with heartbreak. Maybe not making a team, maybe getting an injury, maybe just deciding that's not something you want to do anymore, that's OK too. But if you've kind of put all your eggs in one basket, it's a really difficult time to try to figure out life afterward. So I feel like if we can. And again, I'm fairly new at parenthood. My kids are 6 and 10, so I'm just now getting to that point where they're starting to figure out which sports they like the most and where they want to spend their time. And I think oftentimes if you have an athlete that really loves a sport, that's all they want to do and they're good at it. You have the toughest job because you do have to decide how much do you support and give and do they change schools, do they move to try to get to the best coach and how does that help them or harm them? And there's a zillion questions. And so I think at the end of the day, you have to communicate with your child, you have to communicate with the coaches, you have to have that constant communication of what is at the end of the day right for the child overall. And how do we support our child in making sure that they have a healthy and successful lifestyle? Not just sport, but lifestyle, and that really is going to help them overall in sport as well. And most coaches will tell you they'll take a well rounded athlete over someone that's only done one thing every day of the week.

When I was little, I dropped out of school. I got in a lot of trouble and luckily for me I did find my passion in my case for entrepreneurship. And it was a very difficult conversation that I had with my parents, right, my mother and my grandmother and her mother. In my family there's a long lineage of school teachers of all things, and here I am the dropout, not even having graduated high school. And here I am trying to convince them that I'm the exception to their rule, that I'm different than them, that becoming and following my passion for entrepreneurship is the right thing to do, regardless of any of their thoughts. As you can probably imagine, this was not a fun conversation for anyone. It was very difficult. Somehow my mother had to come to terms with the fact that even though she thought she was right, based on her own experience and pretty much based on all of or the majority of societies perspectives as well. And she's not generally wrong by having those opinions and neither is society. But she had to come to terms with the fact that it simply wasn't my path that her son had chosen and found a different path to walk down than anything she had predicted. And perhaps more importantly, it was so much different than anything she was emotionally or intellectually prepared for. Right? She's looking at me and seeing the determination that I had to succeed. Ultimately she had to come to a place and find her own way, way to get there of being supportive. And maybe your own parents, Shannon had to go through a similar type of experience when their plan backfired and all of a sudden you love gymnastics. If you had a tip for a parent out there, maybe there's someone listening to this right now and there probably is and they're trying to figure out to what degree do I support my child in holding onto, harnessing and embracing their passion and at what point do I maybe take the different direction and draw a firm line and enforce. No.

What do you think that is so difficult? And I think it really does depend on the situation and on the child and what it is they're trying to do because every situation is a little bit different and that's not going to be terribly helpful for everyone out there. But at some point you.

It's good food for thought though.

Yeah, it's food for thought. But it is also important, assuming that, you know, safety is taken care of, you know, you want your kids to be safe. But aside from that, no matter what your age your children are, at some point you have to let them fail. As an entrepreneur, you know, I'm an entrepreneur. My parents were not my. I can remember my mom when I first told her she was a banker My dad's a professor. And I said, well, you know, mom, I'm not really interested in a 9 to 5 job. And what I meant by that was, you know, a specific. I'm going to be an accountant or I'm going to be a banker or whatnot. I kind of had this more this idea of doing something different. I wanted to have a foundation and help people that way, or I wanted to have a business, or I wanted to do more speaking and just stuff that really you couldn't necessarily put your arms around at the time. And I didn't really exactly know how to vocalize that to them, but I couldn't remember her saying, basically, you're crazy, you need to find a job. You're done with the gymnastics thing. You need to just find something that you can name and do that. And now, of course, I work a lot more hours, but it's something that I really love to do. And I think they've come around to understanding that, oh, okay, this actually is a real thing, but that's hard. And they wanted to do the right thing by helping me find employment and being able to take care of my family and do all those things. But they also allowed me that ability to go out and fail. And I did fail. I mean, there were plenty of things I failed at. And then you kind of find what doesn't work. And sometimes that's just as important as finding out what does work. And so I think at some point you do have to let them fail to a certain degree and again with safety in mind. But you have to let them fail and figure out what it is, because you don't want that resentment. You don't want to keep them so focused on the things that we know about that maybe. And especially in this day and age of technology, I mean, my 10 year old knows about more things than I probably ever will. And so it's important for me to try to remind myself that he's got his own ideas, he's going to want to do what he wants to do. And so as long as he's safe, I need to allow him that freedom to go out there and see if something works or not.

I remember in my backyard and, oh, this was a while ago, maybe 15 years ago. I was watching outside, there was a bird's nest in the back deck and I was just outside taking a break, a little breather, and there was a little bird in the nest and it just jumped out of the nest. And I'm presuming that it was little birdie's first flight ever. Because this little bird, it probably sounds like I'm making it up, but for real, this little bird just jumps out of the nest and it lands, bam. You know, face down, right on the deck. And it looked really injured, like the wing was all twisted up, it was breathing all crazy, like. And this was not a good first flight, right? And so I'm looking at the bird and I'm a little bit in shock. I didn't expect for a bird to just splat on a deck for no apparent reason. And, you know, I haven't figured out yet do I help it or what. But anyways, I'm watching this happen, and so I look up and I can see mama bird is still in the tree. And she's also watching the scene unfold in front of her. And, you know, mama bird doesn't look too panicked at all. She's just sitting there watching and waiting, full confidence, just waiting for her little baby to fix itself and to stand back up and to figure out what to do next on its own. And sure enough, up comes the little bird. It stands back up, shakes its feathers all out, slows its breathing back down. And if birds have expressions on their beaks, you know, this bird definitely did. To me, it just looked shocked. It did look confused and a little dazed, but overall it seemed okay. So I went back and did my thing inside and came back to the window to have another look later on. And sure enough, the bird had moved to a more safe location on the deck that was a little bit in the shade. And after a while, it tried again. It jumped, it flopped its wings, it flew. And this time it actually landed safely on a branch. It was clumsy and it almost fell again, but it did successfully land on the branch. So, I mean, really, humans are just creations of nature as well, right? We're animals. We all go through similar processes in different contexts. I feel like what you described is part of the natural process of life. We gotta let the bird fly from the nest and see what happens.

It is, but it's so hard. I mean, as a mom, it is so difficult. And I want to tell my parents constantly, I'm so sorry I've given you so much gray hair.

I have a lot of stories to give to my parents, too. I admit that.

Yes, but. And it's so hard to let go. And my husband laughs at me. He said, you know, have you fitted them for their new bubble? Keep them bubble wrapped and keep them safe. But you do have to allow them to go out there and fail and that's maybe the hardest part of parenthood, is watching your kids fail. But in the end, they're going to be stronger and better and more prepared for it.

Now, as soon as we come back from this short break, just before we wrap up, I have three questions for you. The first one is where and how do we draw the line between passion and obsession? The second question is, tell me what's going on right now in your life, Shannon. Like, what are you focused on? And the third question is how can I help you? And let's get creative. Let's see if there's something we can come up with. Those three questions as soon as we come back from rock Bottom to rockin it is brought to you by me. I pay for these because I love it. This is a passion project. I like to give back. It makes me happy to do this. And so my only ask is to please like the channel, subscribe it, share it with your friends, comment, send me an email. Just engage with me and help me share these words, these messages with people who need to hear it. And on that tone, remember to check out Shannon Miller's website, shannonmiller.com S-H-A-N-N O N M I L L E R.com there's also a link on the show notes to this episode. You can see her books there. There's a lot of really cool stuff she has for sale there, autographs and memorabilia. You can also book her as a speaker. She is engaging. She, she's powerful. She knows how to work an audience and to instill confidence and motivation in a room. Check out her website, shannonmiller.com or click the link on the show notes to this episode to book her for your event virtually or in person. Now back to the show. We're back now here on from rock bottom to rockin it with seven time Olympic medalist Shannon Miller. Thanks again for being here. And tell me, Shannon, we left off with three questions I was gonna ask you. So tell me in your own words, what's the difference? And where's the line between obsession and passion? Because I mean, on one side you have to have this immense, huge, powerful passion in order to do what you're doing. And at the same time, there's people out there and I know myself, I can definitely say that I definitely crossed the line into obsession on more than one of my ventures. And when passion turns into obsession, then the experience is all distorted and obviously obsession is not a healthy motivator at all. So how do you differentiate Shannon between the Two, how do you know when you're on the side of passion or on the side of obsession?

I'm sorry, is there a line? Because I would like to find it. I think it's hard. And all kidding aside, it is difficult to find that line. Especially when you're in the throes of the work that you're doing or whatever that passion might be. And I don't know that there is always a clear line. And I don't know that obsession is always a bad thing. I don't know that passion is always a good thing. I think it's how you deal with it.

And we're talking here about little course corrections, like driving a car and making little corrections as we're going down a road. Just these little course corrections.

It is, it's daily course correction, but it's also a course correction in the grand scheme of things. Because I think sometimes when something becomes an obsession, you follow that rabbit down the hole, you follow that passion and what you're doing without kind of looking up and seeing the grand scheme of things and saying, okay, well my focus and my goal was always to do X. And I'm going, but you don't look up and realize that what your real goal needs to be is Y. But you just kind of forgot to look up and see what was going on because you were so focused on that one goal. And so I think that's what's important, to have those daily check ins but have that grander scheme of things. And that's kind of that vision board. It's where in the grand scale do I want to be? And then now let's figure out how I want to get there. And also have a little bit of flexibility in that path and check in with yourself. I do this quarterly with regard to family and work. And then I also have those shorter times, those weekly goals and check ins with regard to different activities and different focuses, because that's important as well. But it is that idea that goals can change. It's great to have this idea out there that you're always going to have this one goal and you're going to work really hard and you're going to attain that goal. But for the most part, that's not how it happens. Your goals can change and the path to get to said goal is very likely going to change and it could change multiple times. And so it's important not just to deal with what's happening today, but look up, see the big picture and make sure that you're really headed in the direction you want to be.

Are we talking about mindfulness now? Is that what you would say? This subject is called, that we're referring to like just being aware of exactly what we're doing. And by aware I mean like fully consciously aware of what, why, and what's the long term motivation, the short term motivation of what we're doing?

I guess you could call it mindfulness. I just think of it as big picture thinking, understanding the big picture of what's going on and understanding that there needs to be some flexibility. And that doesn't mean having a wishy washy mindset. It's not about changing with the wind. It's about understanding that there has to be built in flexibility to some degree. Because you may find that you're working for a goal and two years later, guess what, that's really not the outcome that you want. Even if you were to attain that goal, it's really not the outcome you were hoping for. But oh, over here, if I switch gears, this goal over here, option B, that's where I actually want to be. That big picture, this is what I'm actually looking for. And not feeling bad about changing gears, but understanding that that's part of life, that's part of business, being able to make those changes, get creative and continue to follow a path and have it be a strong path, have it be the strongest path, but understanding there's some flexibility there. Something that I battled in the past is getting so focused and man, I can focus on a goal like nobody's business. And I will outwork anyone. I always say I was never the most talented, I was never the most powerful or strongest or most flexible, but I would outwork anyone. But if you spend your time working on things that become irrelevant, then that's not a good use of your time. You need to look up and see where is the relevancy, what do I need to be doing to really achieve that overall big picture that I'm looking for? Not just that goal that I kind of keyed in on. And now I'm working towards this goal, but everyone else has moved somewhere else and this goal no longer. And I would say this happens in life, but it happens often in business. And you've got to be able to switch gears, you've got to be able to keep up with the times, you've got to have those efficiencies, you've got to be able to do those things, not just look at the day to day, but look at that big picture.

And so what are you focused on? Now, I mean, you're doing your public speaking, you're helping people everywhere. You got your book, you have this foundation helping kids. What's on your plate right now? What are you focused on?

It's interesting. We talked about being able to change gears. My business is, for the most part, a professional speaking. So when you don't have events, right, when everyone's on lockdown, you don't work. And I'm very blessed to be able to do what I do. And I love it. I love being able to go out there and shake hands with people. And there's a lot of hugging involved. I'm a hugger. And, you know, I get to talk to corporations and C suites and. But I also get to talk with a lot of survivors. And for me, that's my favorite part, being able to listen, hug, talk, vent, whatever that is. And that's hard to do when we have to stand six feet away or sell your own place. And so for me, that change up is all of a sudden doing a lot, virtually, literally, kind of set up a studio area in the house where these fundraisers still have to happen. There are still people going through a cancer diagnosis right now, today. That stuff didn't stop because of this other stuff that's going on. So we still need to get help to those people. So for me to be able to switch gears and say, okay, well, I've got the technology in place, and I will do virtual speaking, I will do virtual hits with your group, I'll do podcasts, I will do the interviews. Whatever it takes to make sure that those things can keep going is really good. And then on the side of kind of my profession, being able to switch gears and say, I get that everyone's working, working from home, but that doesn't mean you still can't have positive mindset. Doesn't mean you can't have someone come in and talk about the gold medal mindset, because that's what we need right now, right?

It is. This is exactly what we need. We need to figure out how to persevere, Right? We got to get through this. We got to come together and come through on the other side, not just surviving, but thriving. We got to come through winning.

Absolutely. And so I think that mentality and that ease of being able to switch gears and say, hey, I'm here. And yes, I'm doing homeschool with my kids in the morning and afternoon, but I want to be available for those who need it, and I want to be able to continue to do my work and While the Olympics has been postponed till next year, I still want to be able to be out there and be supportive of the athletes that are training and have trained for so long and so hard and all of the people that are involved with that that now have this next year to gear up for. So how can I also be a cheerleader for them and supportive in that way? So I've tried to kind of figure out ways that I can continue to do the stuff that I love to do, the stuff that I'm a passion, I'm very passionate about. But also it's kind of nice having a kids home. I miss them when they go to school.

There's silver linings everywhere.

Yeah.

And so people listening to this right now who are inspired by what you're saying and listening to the show and they want to reach out and talk to you and book you for their own event. Right. Digitally through Zoom or TeamViewer or whatever digital meeting system you use during COVID social distancing restrictions. How can they find you and how can they book you in for their own event in this virtual world?

All my information is very easy. It's@shannonmiller.com and certainly book me for actual work, which is always nice. I appreciate it. But there's also a lot of information on there. If you are stuck at home and you need a good free 10 minute workout. I've got a bunch on my site that I happen to have filmed years before and those are available there. And It's a quick 10 minute full body workout that you can do from home, no equipment required. And that's just something we need. It helps us having that physical exercise helps us to be more productive, more energized, sleep better at night, all of those good things. Think better. So that's a portion of that. I've got my blog on there. You can certainly follow me on social media, which has been interesting lately. There's a lot of, a lot of funny things happening. But that's Twitter and Instagram. ShannonMiller96.96 being my big team year with the Olympic Games.

Right? It sure was. And I'm going to put some links here on the show notes to this episode. So anyone listening just go to the show notes of this episode on my website. If you didn't write that down, it'll all be on the website. You can find Shannon's website and her social media links and her YouTube videos. There'll be links to those in the show notes of this episode.

Yeah, absolutely. There's just a bunch of fun stuff on there. There's articles, there's all kinds of things. A great deal of what I do is with health and wellness for women and I love that. It's really about helping women make their health a priority, which is very difficult. And it's not that I want to leave the men out, I don't know as much about them, but I think for women, and this has been a passion of mine for a couple of decades now, is just helping women to really understand and internalize. And it takes work every single day for me personally to remember that taking care of my health and making my health a priority not only helps me, but it helps everyone that depends on me. My friends, my family, my work. That is important. And so we can't feel selfish about really taking that time. Now more than ever, you're at home, you're suddenly doing schoolwork with a fourth grader and you don't know the new math. So it can be very overwhelming and you need to take that time for yourself. And I know it's incredibly difficult because how are you going to find it? But find those moments, and that's what I hope to help people do, is find those moments. Whether it's five minutes or 10 minutes or 15 minutes, find those moments for your own sanity, for your own health and your own wellness and you will be better not only for yourself, but for everyone else.

Shannon, your story of from rock bottom to rockin it. It's inspiring. I love it. This has been a lot of fun. It's a great conversation. Do you have any final words to say to anyone who might be listening to the show right now who are having their own rock bottom moments? People listening that are trying to get to the next step and get to the next level in their life. Do you have any final words to them just before we wrap up?

Understanding that everyone is in different situation in life and in their moment, I think the biggest advice I can give is just keep pushing. Know that you are not alone and that there are people out there willing to step in and help. So do not be afraid to ask, do not be hesitant to accept that help do it because you may get the chance and you may already have had the chance to help someone else.

Thank you Shannon so much for everything, for everything you've shared and said here on this show. I look forward to keeping in touch and to maybe having you on the show again in the future. Until then, I hope you rock it in life and keep doing what you're doing. And thanks again for coming out here. I hope you have a Rockin it day.

Thank you.

And that's it. My friends, for this episode. We will see you next time. Please send me an email, say hello, give me some feedback, let me know what you think, give me some tips and suggestions. I'd love to hear from you. Also, please share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, doesn't matter. Just get it out there. I really appreciate it. And we'll see you next time on From Rock Bottom to Rockin it. Have a Rockin it day.