16: Witnessing A Murderous Fire To Helping 38,000 People By Building 49 Interfaith, Caste-Free Homes // The Story Of Sister Lucy Kurien

When we reached her to the hospital, I asked Dr. If anything can be done to save her. Of course when doctor examined her, doctor told me that she is already 90% burned. But now I am grateful to the Divine. All those things have taken place because that is what made me to be what I am today. So I am very grateful to to God for what had happened in my life.

Welcome to From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. I'm your host Eric Gilbert Williams and this is the podcast where we explore personal stories of people who hit absolute rock bottom, then got back up, wiped off the dust, kicked failure to the curb and now they're rocking it like you'd never believe if you didn't hear it. Live right here we cover subjects in business, sports and life in general. If you like this podcast, please share it. These interviews are intended to inspire, to motivate, to give hope and vision. So please share this episode with someone who needs it. Use your Instagram Account, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn hand signals. Trained pigeon sent smoke signals up in the air. Use Morse code, whatever you like. Just share the love and share this episode. Also, email me anytime. Podcastericilbertwilliams.com Send me questions you would like to have asked of future guests and I will incorporate them. Or just send me some suggestions on how to run a better podcast. Or just say hello, I'd love to hear from you. That's podcasterricgilbertwilliams.com I know you're going to love today's interview, so let's get started here with us today on From Rock Bottom to Rockin it is Sister Lucy Kurian from India. Sister Lucy witnessed an absolute tragedy which I will let her describe in her own words. And this event inspired her to ultimately found, organize, lead and manage the Meher Houses across India to help people in need. Over the past 20 years, there's been 43 Meher houses built all across India, positively impacting over 38,000 people who have come in and out of those houses ever since they were constructed. And this is all thanks to Sister Lucy's initial vision and determination to make a difference. She was honored with the Narisakhi Puraskar by the President of India at the time. And sorry if I butchered the name, I'm trying the DCCIA Award for Excellence in Social Service in 2010, the Global Women's Leadership Award in 2011, the Paul Harris Fellow Vanitha Woman of the Year Award, and many more, including being all over TV in India. Sister Lucy, thank you for being here. Welcome to the show how are you doing?

I'm very well, thank you.

Good. And which part of India are you in right now?

Now I am in Pune. That's very close to Bombay. I am from the south of India. Kerala.

Great. People who are listening to the show right now are wondering what you've done. It's not that often that I have people from other countries here on the show. I know I'm from Canada. A lot of guests are from either Canada or the United States. And I'm living out in California right now. And I'm fascinated to hear your story. I know there's tragedy that's involved and if I understand correctly, it fundamentally inspired you to make a positive change in the world. Now, I think back then, when the tragedy happened, you were with the Hope organization, is that correct?

I was working at home. It was, I think in 1991. A woman asked me for shelter because I was working for a village project in Hope. While I was working there, a woman approached me asking for shelter. And we did not have a shelter home over there. And she told me that her need was very urgent, she needed immediate shelter. But then I did not know what to do. I'm a Catholic nun and I had nothing, no place of my own or anything like that to offer her. I was forced to send her back. And that very night her husband and they must have had some fight. What she told me is that her husband was an alcoholic and he's in love with another woman and he's a very hot tempered man and she needed shelter immediately. I listened to her story and I knew it was a genuine story. But I did not know what to do and I sent her back. I think that very night they must have had some fight, as usual, in that temper. I think he poured kerosene and set it on fire. After they saw the incident, what was happening? It was in a slum. I mean, people were shouting. I heard the shouting and yelling. So being in a village setup, I also ran there to see what was happening. When I reached there, I realized it was the same woman who had come to me for shelter. This particular woman, she was also seven months pregnant. What happened was that I tried to help her out, but then what? The place that we were staying, we did not have a car because it was in a very remote place to take her to the hospital. We struggled to find even a rickshaw, what we call it the cheapest way of traveling in India. It took me quite a long time to get anything organized for her. And with the help of the neighbors in that place. We managed to take her to the nearby hospital. When we reached her to the hospital, I asked Dr. If anything can be done to save her. Of course, when doctor examined her, doctor told me that she is already 90% burned.

Right?

Yeah. Then I asked doctor whether we can save the baby because she was seven months pregnant. But doctor said me, no, it is useless, you can't do anything. But I was insistent, I wanted to see the baby. And one doctor operated her. What we got in her hand was a fully burned baby or fully cooked baby.

That's horrible.

Yeah. I was so devastated after this particular incident. I was also feeling a lot of guilt, feeling within me. Because I felt when she was in need, I didn't do anything. And now when she is all finished, I am here. And I know all kinds of anger and frustration was developing inside me. After coming home, I was not the same. I was so frustrated and angry with myself. And then in my mind I started thinking, what shall I do? I did not know what I would do. And I was keeping all this in my heart. And I was becoming very, very angry. And even to the people, I was very angry. I was coming around me, I was. I was not the normal person. And then they told me, lucy, you need to go for some counseling. Fortunately for me, I went for counseling to Catholic priest who was very open minded man, a very understanding person. And he listened to everything. And then he told me, you see, instead of getting frustrated and staying within the convent, why don't you go and do something for women? But I was not knowing how will I do. Because I did not have the qualification that is required for this kind of work. Neither I had any money. I am a nun and I did not have any money. But then the same priest told me, when I told him all this, he said, if you have love in your heart, you will find a way. This struck me very much. I came home, I started thinking what I can do. And finally after coming home, I spoke to some of my friends and others. And somehow I collected some money. That was in 1993. And I bought a small piece of land with that money. There was a man also from Austria, who came forward to help me out. With this help and the help of others, we managed to buy a small piece of land. And then came the question of building, how to find money. And I can say, I think it was only the divine intervention. I found the right people. And the people of the village all started helping me with the. They were for me donors, even with two rupees. And that's how we set up our first home in 1997.

Wow, that's. I mean, where do I even comment on that? That's such an incredible story. And sometimes I bring people on the show here and I can relate to those stories in some capacity. Right. And sympathize with it and have some sort of story to tell back that's similar. But to be honest, what you've experienced is so far outside of my realm of experience. And probably for many people listening to this right now, that's so far outside of the realm of their experience that it really adds a new dynamic. And I just sit here listening to what you're saying in awe. Now, one thing that really interests me is how did you bring people together like this? How did you unite so many different minds from across the country to do what you've done? Right? You created this out of nothing. It was just an idea. How did you do this?

You know, after this incident, this was in the newspaper and people knew about it. And so whenever I used to speak helping women, many of the people were very, very cooperative. And they would trust me and give me some money. And little by little, I collected money. And that's why I was able to set up our first home also, because since I was working in Hope, I was also known to the people because I was. We were doing a lot of village work because I worked there for nine years, so people knew me over there. So I had a hold over the people already there because I was a very good social worker in that sense, and people trusted me. They knew that when I do something, I will do it. So in that sense, because I was there already nine years with them. And so those people started helping me already. And the people from there also started talking to others. And that's how the trust of the people build up.

I'm wondering, there's people listening to this show right now, and they've witnessed something in their life that made them very angry as well, in a different way. We all get angry for different reasons, and sometimes it's so powerful that we lose sight of who we are. And you were saying how you had this anger that was building up inside your heart. How did you deal with it? How did you release it so that you could come back to a place of love?

One thing, being a religious, I think I learned a lot about meditation and prayer and taking everything to the divine energy. And that way, of course, that time, it was only everything to do with the Christianity. I did not even know how to embrace other faith people but anyway, from my home itself, I had a lot of different type of training and that helped me to embrace people of all faith. And at the same time, I started meditating and thinking about it and I said, no, just blaming and sitting here won't do. The change should begin with me leading by example.

It's just so powerful. Obviously, as soon as we come back from this short little break, I want to ask you and talk about this concept of any faith, of helping people that are in need, regardless of background, despite religious belief that when we come back from this short break, Eric here. I hope you're enjoying the episode today. This is a passion project that I put together. I really wanted to do this. I really want to help people out there. I had so many people reach out to me when I was younger and when I was having a tough time and struggling, I was. I've written a book about it. You can check it out on my website. Please do. But most importantly, reach out to me. Give me some feedback. What could I do better with this podcast? What am I doing that I should stop? What am I not doing that I should do? Tell me your experience, give me some tips and suggestions. I really want to design this to suit your needs. And all you got to do is send me an email. It's ericericgilbertwilliams.com or use the contact me button that you'll find on my website. Just send me an email. We'll have a phone call or we'll chat online. Doesn't really matter. I would love to hear from you and figure out how to make this show even better with your help. So please reach out and don't be shy. Sister Lucy, we're back now and I would love to hear your thoughts on the subject of any faith. Now, when I was looking at the Meher Houses online and learning about what you're doing, one of the things that really stood out to me is that you're specifically focusing on and you're allowing any background from any person of any religion to partake. Now, in Canada and United States generally here, the conflicts aren't as extreme as what you're telling me happens out there in India. I mean, there are extreme conflicts out here, don't get me wrong. And they're nothing to disregard or discredit at all. These are powerful. People are dying and we need to fix this. That being said, the type of conflict that exists and the brutality that we might see in other countries, for example, like your story in India, it's a very different paradigm now. Regardless to my understanding, or rather I'll ask the question this. What is the current situation right now in India? Like what's it like out there? Right? Is this an isolated incident? Is this happening frequently? What's the current situation with race, with religion, with struggles and conflicts or tensions?

What's happening in India? All of us have our own faith because there are many, many faith people living together. Each of us think that our faith and our belief is the best. So naturally there will be some kind of tension, communal violence, etc. But what I thought when I began, I said I should begin for people who are in need, no matter what religion or what you call caste or class the people belong to, I should keep in my door open for anyone who is in need.

And this is something that I was saying before. I think that everywhere in the world there's a certain level of classes or religions or faith or fill in the blank type of division and separation. And that's something I think as a human species we need to figure out and resolve. We need to bridge these gaps between us and come from a place of love to come together and unite. And there's obviously a long way to go still. Correct me if I'm wrong here. I think it's a little more serious in India this than it is in some other countries. I mean, is that a fair statement or no?

Yes, somewhat. But at the same time there is because for years India has been living with the people of all faith. There's a lot of tolerance but there are also lot of communal violence. We will see both sides of the people.

When you put together this initiative of any faith, has that created any resistance? Did that create some problems in the.

Beginning when I began in the place where I'm. Because this is 100%, you know, a non Christian village. So people did not know what I was trying to do and they thought that I was coming for conversion. So naturally people misunderstood me and there was threat to my life and things like that. But then slowly people started to understand and things got problem, problems got solved.

And how do you deal with that when you get a threat like that? You know when you get a threat to your life because you're coming from a place of love, this good, honest, healthy, wholesome place and you're here to heal, you're here to help people heal, but you're just trying to do the right thing and that's all you care about. It's such a good intention and we're talking about good and evil here, light and dark. You're coming from this place of light and love and dark is out there. So when you get that resistance, when you get that threat face, you going out in the world, how do you personally deal with that? What's your secret?

I knew that people were dealing with me that way out of their ignorance. And then I tried to understand them. I'll tell you one other thing. When some people came here, you know, they wanted to finish me up and things like that, they came here and first thing what happened was that the day when they arrived here, I was naughty. I was in the village and I think they must have asked the children what time you gather for prayer or something like that, or dinner. And the children must have given the timing and the men came here. And fortunately it was a divine grace. I can say when the people came here, the children were sitting down to pray. And when we have the prayer, all our prayers are addressed to the divine, not taking any particular name of any religion, all the songs, all the prayers that way. And the children were praying. And children did not know, of course, who are these uncles who have come, because normally we address all the people as uncles and aunties. So then children made a prayer. Dear God, bless all the uncles who have come. Send peace in their heart and joy in their family and things like that. So when they finished that prayer, because it was first time those people were coming. And in our main sanctuary, in the prayer sanctuary, we had Bible, Quran, Bhagavad, Gita, and also the pictures of Ganesh, Buddha, Jesus. All these people understood she is not here to con. They also understood that I was not there for conversion. I told the people I'm here to respect and love everyone, not to discriminate anyone because of their religion or caste. Innermost being was, I think for me was very, very connected to the divine energy. And so I didn't feel so much threatened. Of course I was, little bit. But I knew that somewhere inside me told me all will be well.

This is such an important subject right now. I remember years ago in my past, I was dating someone who was very religious. And now they were a very loving person. But because I didn't believe in their faith, she said ultimately that I was going to hell. And it was this weird relationship where we got along on all levels. And she was very accepting of her own belief that I was going to hell and she was willing to deal with it. But to me, this was crazy. I mean, this was. There's two forces in the world. There's love and then there's fear. And I Feel like whatever religion a person is believing in or practicing. If it's coming from a place of love and light, then it doesn't matter what it's called at all. You know, fill in the blank. Put in any religion in there. If the person who's practicing or believing or studying is coming from a honest, good, loving place. Then it doesn't matter what the religion is. It's the source energy I'm talking about here. Either love or fear. And we can have good or evil people practicing any religion. It's not really about the religion in my mind. It's about the person and what their intention is and what their behavior is. Can you tell me, Sister Lucy, what your thoughts are on this? I mean, I've just shared a little bit what's on my mind, but I'd love to hear what's on your mind.

I also believe in that very, very strongly that. I believe just in the divine energy or divine light or whatever you can call it, you know, or in the name of God. And that's it. If the people are feeling comfortable to take that particular name or that religion, let them be. Because that's what they have learned and that is helping them. Why not accept those people who takes the name of Allah? And why don't I accept the people who knows or who is comfortable in taking the name of Ganesha? No problem. For that matter, the people who are used to taking the name of Jesus, let them take, because that is the way they are used to. Why can't I accept them that way? That's my innermost belief system.

I hope that people listening to this here right now. If they can take away anything from this conversation, it's to consider that if we're coming from a place of love, then it doesn't matter what it's called. It is what it is, and let's just remember that.

And you know what I feel also? When our love is deep for the people, naturally the fear of any religion will go away. I think fear comes because the lack of love there.

I think so, too. I think fear is the opposite. It's the contrast. Now, what kind of progress are you making on right now? What are you focused on right now? Are you focused more on making more of the Meher houses? What does a present day look like in the shoes of Sister Lucy?

At the moment, I'm focused on two things. That is building up more homes like Maher, wherever is needed. And also building up of the interfaith communities. Instead of having this communal violence and tension, let Me create in my own way, the interfaith community.

Okay. Is there any traveling coming up in your near future? I know that you've met a lot of important people in important places and you've done a lot of touring in your career here. Is there anything coming up in your plans?

Yeah, I was to come to us now with this coronavirus. I don't know how far we can travel. May not be.

Probably not very far.

Yeah. So. And at the moment, India is shut down, so we don't know how long it will take to come back to the normal. You know, so it might take some time for me to travel.

Right. If you were to look back into your past and if you were to be able to be there to talk to yourself 20 years ago. Right. The adult you now versus who you were 20 years ago. You're looking at yourself in the eyes. The past meets the present, let's say, right when that tragedy occurred. If you were able to talk to yourself back then and give any sort of advice to yourself, what would it.

Be at that time, when 20 years ago, when this happened, I was really sad, depressed, angry. But now I'm grateful to the divine. All those things have taken place because that is what made me to be what I am today. So I'm very grateful to God for what had happened in my life because I feel still very sad for the woman who died. But still somehow I am very even very grateful to the person who even died.

Wow. Now I'm wondering here as well. I go around and I talk to people all the time, and they want to do big change, they want to do a big thing, they want to help people, they want to make a difference, they want to have a positive impact. And a lot of times people don't know really where to start. And I imagine back then, 20 years ago, you wanted to do something. You had this drive. How did you take that first step? What would you tell people who want to take their own first step? They want to make good change. Where would you tell them to start?

See, when I started thinking of having a home for the women, I too did not know how I will, because, you know that I'm not much qualified. I don't have any training for these people. I'm not a social worker. So naturally, there was some kind of fear, doubt about myself. Will I be able to do. Will I be able to find the money and things like that. But, you know, the more when I was in meditation, the more strength I was getting and things were becoming very clear. I was Becoming very fearless. And of course, I am not a fearful person in that sense. I think I'm a. By and large, I'm a very courageous person. If any happen, I will look at it in a very positive way and then I'll say, oh yeah, one more bridge to cross. Rather than looking at it as a problem.

It makes a lot of sense. I can relate to that. For me, I dropped out of school really little. And then I did my own thing. I got in a lot of trouble and then I straightened myself out and had a lot of good things that happened. But when it comes to making a podcast, I've never done a podcast before. This is my first one. I've never recorded or produced or scripted or done anything like this before at all. I was inspired to do this. I really wanted to make this happen. And I had no idea where to start. So after some reflection and thinking about it, I realized that the best place to start is pretty much anywhere. Just start somewhere, anywhere, just get started. That's what's more important than knowing where to start, is just getting started. And then with time and with days, momentum starts to build on itself. You know, one day turns into two, turns into four, to eight, to 16, to 32 to 64, and on and on and on. It's like an avalanche. And consistency in effort and intention every day makes something out of nothing. Kind of like what you said about this courage, this fearless, this belief. I mean, did you know that there was going to be 43 Mejia houses 20 years ago? Like, what was the plan back then? Was that an intention? Or did you just end up with 43 houses after consistent effort every day over a long period of time?

No, it all came with experience in the beginning. If you come and see in India, the house that I have is very, very small. It is just for 20 people. Okay? And then now I have more than 1500 people staying in different homes of ours. We have 49 homes now. @ that time, I never, never thought I will be able to do more than one house. We started with one house and then I spread to other places. And when I even left the state and went to another state, there was lot of fear within me because we speak different languages in every state in. In India. So because of the language and the customs of every state is different, the rules are different. So there was like some kind of fear. Will I be able to manage? Will I will able to learn the language? Will I find the people who are really committed? Those kind of thoughts used to come, but then somehow the courage also came. No, this is divine work. And if the divine wants to do it, he'll find a way through me. And it's necessary through me itself. That was only my thing. And I started that way. And I can see somehow all these places are.

Flourishing. How much does it cost to build a.

House? It depends on the size of the home. Okay, I can only pay in rupees. I don't know how to say $10, say about a decent house now in India. To build it will take about 1 crore 25 lakhs.

Rupees. I have my rupee to US dollar conversion, but I just never heard of a lakhs before. And Sister Lucy, how can people reach out and help you with this initiative? What would you.

Suggest? There are many ways of reaching out and helping helping Maher. Those of you who can speak good English and computer, maybe you could travel to India and come and teach our children English and computer things like that or whatever skills they have. Or you could also collect funds and send money to Maher so that we can reach out and help more people. And also our women produce a lot of things and we find it very difficult to find market for it. So if you can buy those things and sell it at US price and then send the money to us as donation, that also helps us a lot. Because that means we are finding jobs for many.

Women. I have to ask, how did you. You said you had no training in this and you just figured it out as you go. What do you think now, looking back? I mean, are you. You must be proud of what you've done. And I'd imagine that you must probably see a whole bunch more work that also needs to be done at the same time. Is that about right or what's your.

Opinion? I will say I'm grateful to God, whatever I can do. Because myself, I don't think I would have done anything. It's only because of the. Because I was relying totally on divine grace. Because there was nobody else to help me out. Because the convocation where I was working, they had taken from me an mou that they will not be able to help me. But I can be a member of the congregation. There was no other person older than me who could give me a little advice or anything like that. So I could say that I was completely trusting on the divine. So now I feel I give the whole credit to the divine energy that worked through me or working in me. And also, of course, to all my staff who stood faithfully to the cause of.

Mahal. If I Remember correctly, when I was reading here, you've met the Pope, you've met president of India, you've met other presidents all across the world. You've met a lot of very powerful.

People. Yeah, I was also happy to have met Sting, Trudy. I was also with Bill Clinton. So, you know, there are many people whom I met somehow, that's all by the divine.

Grace. I'm wondering if there's been a funny story. If I asked you to tell me any funny story that happened while you're building all these houses and changing India, what comes to.

Mind? You know, my children and women, they have given me a lot of energy to continue. So I am very grateful to them too. And the poor who trusted me, you know, I'm very grateful to them. Still, I find life as joy. Every small thing makes me.

Happy. It really is the little things that keep us going, isn't.

It?

Yes. Little acts of kindness here and there. Tell me what you think of this. There's this concept where some people think that in order to make positive change, they have to do a really big thing, just like you've done. And that if it's not going to be some big giant world changing action, then it's insignificant, or that it's not enough, or that it doesn't mean anything. My opinion on this is that every single day we get the opportunity to make thousands of little decisions. And we may not be able to see the direct outcome of each of these little individual decisions individually, but once they're combined all together, well, that's a very different story. All these little decisions thousands of times every day building up turns into something really big and it starts to make a really big change and a big impact, one tiny little decision at a time. Think about like random acts of kindness. If everyone in the world went out right now in the next five minutes and did something kind for someone, you know, give them a hug. Maybe not while coronavirus is spreading. Let's not do that. But whatever it is, just do something nice or say something nice and encouraging. Just do anything that's kind and considerate to anyone that's around you. If everyone did that in the world right now, then by default the overall impact is global. It's global change instantly right there. There doesn't have to be a big decision or a big action in order to have positive impacts and to make positive changes. What do you think, Sister Lucy? Like, what's your opinion on.

This? Yeah, for me, what I feel is, you know, the thing, big thing that we are doing is Important. But what we are being to the people is important. Even when my volunteers and all come here, what I can do, I said, forget about what I can do. Think what you can be to that particular child or to that women who is mentally depressed whom we are looking after. So I teach them how to be with them. While doing that, being with them, we are really reaching out in love. And that's what is very, very important. You are from United States or from which country are.

You? I'm from Canada. I was born in Ontario. I have family in Quebec. I spent a fair bit of time out west in Calgary area. After that I've been traveling around a lot across Canada and through Asia as well. And now I'm in California in beautiful United States. And I'll be here for a while. In part because I want to, another part because, well, Corona has kind of changed how my travel plans have been.

Looking. Okay. Because I was to be coming to.

Vancouver. Oh, Vancouver, Yeah. I mean Western Canada, the Rockies, a beautiful.

Region. Yeah. On the 14th of May. But now I'm not sure with all this epidemic whether we are going to come or what I'm going to do. I don't think I will come this year. Maybe next.

Year. Okay. I'd love to hear what you're doing and stay in touch. I would love to hear about the progress that you're making and how can people reach out to you in the Maher houses? I mean, how can they find you to support if they wanted to reach.

Out? I will send you the detail because we have the Maher, we have us contact and then we have the webpage of Maher and things like that. So maybe I could send you everything by email. Is that.

Okay? Yeah. And anyone listening to this right now, I'm going to put the website URL on the show notes to this episode on my website. So you can just go to the website, scroll down to the show notes, click the URL and go right to the Mejia houses. So you can contact, reach out, support, donate, offer encouragement, whatever it is that you'd like to do to help. And so there's a lot of people listening to this right now, Sister Lucy. And I'm wondering, do you have any message in your heart that you would like to share and get out there? Is there anything you'd like to say right now to people.

Listening? I'm not a very good person for that, but of all that I can say, let love be our.

Religion. I think that you're the perfect person for this. There's A lot of people I interview on the show here, and some people are trained, polished, professional speakers and authors, and all day they practice exactly what they want to say to millions of people. And that's great. It's wonderful. I really believe so. And sometimes I interview people here on the show who don't do any of that. And all they do every day is be the change they want to see in the world. And. And that's a quote I don't remember off the top of my head. I think it might have been.

Gandhi. That's from.

Gandhiji.

Yeah. Mahatma.

Gandhi. Yeah. I love that quote. It means so much to me. Leading by example. So I appreciate, Sister Lucy, that you're out there doing the hard work every day and your message is clear, even though maybe you don't feel that way sometimes. I tell you, it is very.

Clear. Thank.

You. Thank you so much for coming on the show here. From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. Sister Lucy, I really appreciate your time. And remember, everyone, to check out the show notes, check out the Mejer Houses support where you can share this episode with your friends and with people that you think would need to hear it. We'll talk to you all and see you soon as well, because the YouTube version is coming out pretty soon. Have a Rockin it day. I'm signing out and that's it, my friends, for this episode. We will see you next time. Please send me an email, say hello, give me some feedback, let me know what you think, give me some tips and suggestions. I'd love to hear from you. Also, please share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, doesn't matter. Just get it out there. I really appreciate it. And we'll see you next time on From Rock Bottom to Rockin it. Have a Rockin It.