21: Crash Amputee to 12 Time World Record Holder // The Story of Amy Palmiero-Winters

Not quite a half mile home. We walked from the woods down the road into the house and he took me upstairs into the bedroom and had me hide in the closet. And he told me I wasn't allowed to say a word or else I was going to get in trouble. And I remember sitting in the dark in the closet in the corner, just sitting there all curled up. And I never really knew what happened until my mother, when I got older, she told me of the story that she came home and she was literally followed the blood trail into the house, upstairs and into the closet. And I was sitting there. My face was all cut up. If you never get into that uncomfortable stage and don't push out of it or don't figure it out, you're never going to understand who you are. You're never going to understand the limitlessness of you. You're always going to have some kind of a boundary around you. You know, I have four herniated discs and bulging discs. I get all of it. So what I do is I strengthen everything around it and everything around it. Kind of keeps that in place and holds it together. And that's how you take those issues in life. You strengthen things around it to help you continue to move forward. These stories, as they just grow and feed off each other, they that just spread out and fan out and hopefully we will be able to help people understand that they really are limitless.

Welcome to From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. I'm your host, Eric Gilbert Williams, and this is the podcast where we explore personal stories of people who hit absolute rock bottom, then got back up, wiped off the dust, kicked failure to the curb, and now they're rocking it like you'd never believe if you didn't hear it. Live right here, we cover subjects in business, sports, and life in general. If you like this podcast, please share it. These interviews are intended to inspire, to motivate, to give hope and vision. So please share this episode with someone who needs it. Use your Instagram Account, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn. Hand signals. Trained pigeon sent smoke signals up in the air. Use Morse code, whatever you like. Just share the love and share this episode. Also, email me anytime. Podcasterrickgilbertwilliams.com Send me questions you would like to have asked of future guests and I will incorporate them. Or just send me some suggestions on how to run a better podcast. Or just say hello, I'd love to hear from you. That's podcastricilbertwilliams.com I know you're going to love today's interview, so let's get started with us here today on from Rock Bottom to rockin it is a 13 world record holder in various running and endurance events, Amy Palmiero Winters. In 2010, Amy was awarded the James E. Sullivan Award as the top amateur athlete in the United States and the ESPN ESPY Award as the top female athlete with a disability in the world. In 2011, Amy became the first female amputee to finish pretty much the world's toughest foot race ever. Known as The Badwater Ultramarathon 135 mile course starting at 282ft below sea level in California's Death Valley and ending at over 8,000ft elevation. Amy, I'm so glad to have you with us here on the show. Everyone listening. Remember to subscribe and share this with your friends. This is a great episode and share it with people who need to hear it. Amy, welcome and how are you doing?

I am doing great. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for having us. Thanks for putting something like this together because I think everybody needs to understand that we all basically hit rock bottom and the only thing we can do is climb up from there.

And Chris, you're here of course with us as well and should have given you a better introduction here or maybe even any introduction at all. I do apologize for that. Amy, maybe you could help me out here and help me give Chris a good introduction for everyone who's listening.

This is Chris Accord and most people know him as Beard. He was one of the top obstacle race directors directors around and he's my significant other.

This is double bonus for me and everyone listening right now. We get two of you at the same time. You know, I've always ridden motorcycles. I had my first one when I was 16. Basically from the literally the moment that I was legally able to ride, I got one right away. I'm on my fifth or sixth one right now. I can't remember which one actually. But either way, I love riding. And when I was 16 I would do courier work. I would deliver packages across the city and to neighboring cities and just zipping around on the motorcycle. It was just one of the best jobs for a 16 year old who loves to ride. It's just liberating to be out there free with the wind and the road all day. But there was one time when I was doing the completely irresponsible, stupid, stupid kid thing. I got excited and I was racing a car from a red light. Now this particular car, it beat me. It was a faster car and I had a beat up old 1984 Honda CM450. It was sputtering oil, the light was broken. I had duct tape, a flashlight on it just in case I had to drive at night and I needed to see what was in front of me so I could just reach in front and turn on the flashlight. It was an old beater, right? It wasn't meant for super speed, and this car was meant for super speed. So anyways, the car won. And when we made it to the next intersection, the car zipped by me pretty fast. And it was well through the intersection before the light turned yellow. But the light turned yellow well before I arrived. And at the time I was going quite fast, so stopping was not really practical at that time. And so I just kept the throttle on to go through the yellow, but I misgauged the distance. So it's like bad decision after bad decision here. And then the light turned full red before I got to the intersection. Well, when I got to that intersection, the oncoming traffic in the other line that was making a left turn, they were waiting for something anyways, so they didn't turn in the yellow. But as soon as it was about to turn red, they turned. And next thing I know, I was T boned. I was cut off by the car that was turning left at that light and I saw my light flash before my eyes. To me, there was no way I'm going to avoid this car. There was a little bit of traffic and so the car was going really slow through that intersection and it even stopped at one point. So I'm staring at this car in front of me while I'm going super speed and I froze. It's the worst thing to do is to freeze, of course, but that's what happened. It was my first time being in that situation and I'm going really fast and I'm all excited and now I'm terrified because there's this car in front of me and I'm going to smash into it for sure. And at the very, very last second, the traffic moved forward for that vehicle. It's in front of it as it was taking that left turn and it pulled away and my knee missed the back bumper at full speed by, it's hard to say, but no more than a foot. And when you're going that fast, a foot is not a whole lot of distance, right? That's just a microsecond of time. So this was a really close call for me and I never forget that. And so obviously, Amy, when I read and heard about your story. There's a connection there. I can imagine what you went through, and I can clearly imagine what would have happened to me if I hadn't been so lucky. So people listening here that don't know your story, Amy, if you could please share with everyone what happened in your situation.

So, for me, growing up, we were always on dirt bikes, motorcycles, go karts, all kinds of motorized vehicles, and then also BMX bikes. We were on everything. We were always racing. I had two older brothers, and so the natural progression of things was, as I got older in life was to have a motorcycle. And it just. Whenever you have a motorcycle, everybody always says, be prepared to have an accident. Not gonna have a motorcycle and ride a motorcycle without being involved in an accident. And simply, it's a lot of times because people don't see you, they don't recognize that you are moving faster than a bicycle. I think a lot of times people see it and they think it's more of like a bicycle. They have more time to go, more time to get out in front of someone. And essentially, that's what it was. I was out riding my motorcycle, and a car pulled out in front of me. And when she did, my bike collided into the side of the car, and in between the bike and the car happened to be my foot. And I will attribute, you know, all those years of riding and racing with my brothers to what helped me not go down, what helped me not become even more injured than I was. And from there, it was just a matter of trying to save my leg. Going into the hospital, and immediately doctors wanted to amputate my leg. And for me, it just wasn't an option because basically running was my entire life. And in my mind, I needed two legs to run. Set that point straightforward for the next three years of just fighting to save my leg and continue on, to be the person who I had obviously known and become over the years.

And so you were running before the accident. You were very passionate about endurance races beforehand, is that right?

Yes. I really wasn't into endurance racing yet, per se. I, for a lack of better terms, took my talents and took them for granted. I took them as a joke. I wasn't serious. I didn't focus, maybe as I should. All through high school, I just pretty much took my talents for granted. And then one day when you're sitting there and it's stripped from you, you realize, wow, I really wasted a lot of time. I wasted a lot of time. I wasted a lot of talent. And having my accident, I was able to walk away from it and say to myself, I literally got a second chance, and not many of us get a second chance. And I spent a few months in the hospital and countless surgery after surgery to try and save things, and it just ended up to the point where, well, we had to amputate my leg. I mean, running was. It was who I was. It was my identity. It's what gave me hope, gave me strength, gave me self confidence.

And what was the final decision to go with amputation versus anything else? You know, I was reading your story, and there were so many surgeries. Was it a bone issue or a soft tissue issue or an everything issue? What was the final reason that made the amputation a necessity instead of a last resort? What was the final straw there?

Essentially, the amputation should have happened right after the accident. And what happens when you have a crush injury? Everything internal is essentially crushed. The muscles, veins, arteries, tissue, ligaments, bones, Everything is completely crushed. And the last thing anybody wanted to do was amputate my leg. And I was so fortunate enough to find a surgeon in Pittsburgh who sent a helicopter, and they picked me up and they did everything that they could to save my leg. When it came to the point where my foot was essentially, like, half the size, the bones were all fused. It was either the bones were fused or bones were missing. My ankle joint was fused. Everything was atrophied. I had no calf function, nothing from basically the knee down. And I took a look at where I was in my life and said to myself, are you happy with where you're at? And I knew that I had so much more to give, so much more potential. And. And that's when one door closed and another one opened. I remember sitting in front of the orthopedic surgeon, and he said to me, and he was the head of the Pittsburgh Orthopedic Hospital, and he said, I'm very sorry that you had to go through the last three years and all the scars and all the surgeries because it should have been cut off. And I said, you know what? If I could go back and do it all over again, I wouldn't change one thing, because it's what I went through that's led me to where I am now, and it's helped create and shape who I am. So for me, it wasn't a mistake, and I wouldn't have done it any different knowing what the end result was. And I was lucky enough to close one chapter of my life and open another one.

Yeah. And, you know, this show, of course, is called From Rock bottom To rockin it for a reason. Right. It's about this vulnerability. It's about finding that courage to share our stories. Right. To share our rock bottom, lowest, absolute bottom moments and also to celebrate the highest of the highs. So on the later half of this discussion, I really want to ask you and dive into. I mean you've won so many awards, it's mind boggling for people that are listening right now, for your information, there's a whole website called cmerunn.com, is that right? Yeah. So yeah, check out that website, cmerunn.com I'll put it into the show notes of this episode. It's just the most impressive list of endurance awards and athletic ability. And I'm sidetracking here for a second, but if I remember correctly, I think you did 3,500 burpees. Is that right? How does that work?

It was actually 3,000 burpees, but I think. What the.

Oh, is that all? Only 3,000, eh?

I think what the better part of that story was is prior to the 3,000 burpees, how many hours they had.

Already been in the race? 36 hours and moved like 2 ton boulder and going up and down hills and covered like 10,000. But all while carrying a 40 pound sandbag and plus all their gear on their back.

Yeah. So the 3000 burpees actually for me is. And it's funny, it's not even funny. We were just talking to our friend Joe Disena who owns Spartan. And here I was. It was this morning. Was it this morning? This morning. And I'm doing my workout and it's 5:30 in the morning and my friend's with me and you know, we're social distancing and we're doing our workout and I see Christopher start running across the track and he's like, you got say something. And as I was talking, you know, to a group of people, it's about now and it's about doing your best for right now. We can't always be our best or we can't always do our best, but we can always be our best and we can always give our best effort. And with the things that are going on around us now, this is just a stepping stone to who we can become. Because the way life has progressed for a lot of people is it's essentially a simple road. And you know, I look at both of my kids, they've had a fairly easy go of it and something like this is just a little teeny bend in the road that's hopefully Going to make them stronger. Because I know us as kids, we had those life changing events. That's how we were raised. We were raised on difficulty to help us get to where we are now and create the foundations of who we are or who we were to become who we are now. And just like right now, it's, you know, taking everything around us and making the best of it. And the same with the accident that essentially in life is, is nothing when it, when you compare it to the things that could be or you compare it to the things that have happened. But yeah, so it's just all about doing your best.

No, I think we're talking about the power of choice here versus circumstance. Is that right?

Exactly.

And I was slightly embarrassed when you listed off awards and records because at the end of the day, that's not what it's all about and that's not who I am. I'm more proud of being able to go and encourage someone to dig a little deeper, push a little bit harder, because that's what's going to take them to the next level of who they are. If we're never uncomfortable and we never say to ourselves, figure it out and get through it, you're never going to evolve. So this morning when my friend said, you know, Nick's got a sore back. What should he do or tell him what to do or give him the what for? And it's like, you know what, you might have a sore back or you have a sore this, but you still got to figure it out. Because life doesn't stop because your back hurts or your leg hurts or you have a difficult time focusing. Life does not stop for all of these things. Life just keeps on moving and it will pass us by. And so it's up to us to learn how to figure those things out and to move along with them and be stronger in spite of them.

Right. And I remember a number of conversations that I've had with friends and acquaintances. We're just out at a pub or having a chat, of course, before all this COVID lockdown. That is to say, and I'll hear this phrase and it's more of an essence actually. It's like a spirit or an undertone to the words being spoken. It starts with, here's the obstacle in my life that I have and it's insurmountable. Period. End of story. No more room for discussion. Don't challenge me, don't push me. They don't want to talk about it any further. They've just decided that it's an obstacle that can't be crossed. Some of my friends or acquaintances, they'll get defensive sometimes when I'm challenging their thought process around this. And so I have to drop it and just sit there and watch my friends build these mental prisons for themselves to live in. They're just building the bricks around them that encages them into this. I can't world this. I can't. It's not possible. These barriers, these limitations, they're creating these limitations for themselves. And when they're building it for themselves, there's nothing I can really do to change it. There has to be a will to change or a will to overcome in order for me or for anyone to be able to help properly. And what perhaps scares me about this is that it strikes me that maybe they want to feel like they're stuck or that they want to not get through it or that there's something that they're attached to. And I don't understand exactly what it is, but it concerns me every time I see it. And so, Amy, when we come back from this short little break, I want to ask you, it's a broad subject, but how do you break through that mental brock? And what's the difference between people who, like yourself, don't see those obstacles compared to the people who do? So when we come back from this short little break, Amy, the difference between people who break through these barriers and have a will to do it versus people who just don't really want to or don't believe that they can. And now it's time for one of my favorite parts of From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. It's the part where I get to lead by example and talk a little bit about our guests. Today we're talking with Amy about how she's overcome just amazing obstacles and done what most people can't do at all, even if we had two legs. So if you want to learn more about her, just check out her website, camyrun.com there's a link to that website on the show notes to this episode. So if you're on my website right now, you can just scroll down to the bottom where the show notes are and click that link. Go check her out. You can contact her. You can reach out to her. And also I would suggest for you to check out the organization that she supports and talks about a lot. It's called the One Step Ahead Foundation. And just before recording this, maybe five minutes before actually recording this, I went to that website. I clicked the yellow button in the middle of the landing page that says donate. And I donated a little bit of money because I think it's money going to a good cause. And if you are interested in supporting the One Step Ahead foundation to help other people with disabilities to get from point A to point B and overcome their limitations, then please check out that website and donate a little bit as well. Whatever you have is going to make a huge difference. It doesn't matter how small at all. Finally, please remember to share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. It's my ask to you. It's really the only thing I'm asking of you. It means the world to me. It means the world to our guests, but most importantly, it means the world to that person who needs to hear this. These interviews are designed to inspire and motivate and help people out of their own rock bottom experiences to find a rockin it moment as well. So that eventually this channel and this episode and this podcast can get overwhelmed with amazing stories of people like you who are rockin it now, today. And now we're going back to the interview. All right, we're back now here on From Rock Bottom to Rockin it with Amy and Chris. Remember to subscribe to the channel, share it with your friends, share the episode, most importantly with someone who needs to hear it. This is what the purpose of the show is, is to share these stories. So help me fulfill that mission by sharing the episode. And Amy, when we left off, I was asking you about the difference. In your opinion, what's the difference between people who don't see these obstacles or have an overwhelming desire and will to break through them, kind of like you and Chris do, versus people who see a challenge and get stuck in their own mind in a mental prison in this realm of I can't, it's too hard, it's not possible. Don't challenge me. What's the difference between the these two mentalities? Let's actually start with how did you break through your own mental barriers and mental problems in seeing these obstacles? How did you get to do what you're doing right now? Or maybe you didn't experience mental blocks at all. Maybe this is just something that you didn't have to go through. So share with me here what was going on in your world and how did you get there?

You know, it's funny because all these years I've kind of surmised basically what has helped me get through things. I focused a lot on my father and how we grew up as kids and how his coaching and conditioning got me through things. And then yesterday, it was like an epiphany when I was telling Christopher the story. I came home from work yesterday. It was like, oh, my gosh. I just wrote one whole chapter on my brothers because I never realized how much they coached me and pushed me and essentially conditioned me to basically where I am. And it's funny. This is. I think it's a funny story now, hearing about it. It wasn't funny when I was a kid, but as the little sister, I was just this little teeny kid, this little twiggy thing. And I had two big brothers. Always wanted to be in their back pockets, hang out with them, just be near them. We lived in the middle of nowhere. We were on 114 acres. So it essentially was just basically three of us. And I remember being on the backside of the property where was a really big hill, and we would find the perfect vine and chop the end of it off, and we'd actually grab a hold of the vine, and we were like an airplane taking off on the Runway. You would take off, and you would swing out and then swing back. And so what you do is just swing as long as you could and then jump off, and then the next person would go. And so it was my turn to go, and I couldn't wait to go. And my older brother, Jody, he was like, I'm going with you. And I was like, okay, because I really couldn't argue it. And I got on the vine, and I'm holding on as tight as I could, and he's on above me, and he's holding on as well. And off we go, we take off, and we swing out and then swing back and we go out again. And then I'm probably, like, five or six years old, so I can't hold on very much longer. And I said, I. I'm gonna fall off. And he was like, one more time. And we swung back out, and in midair, I lost my grip. And as I fell, what buffered my fall was actually a tree on the ground. But I landed on my face, and my face went into the. Actually landed on the tree. And then as my brother came back, he fell as well, and he fell on top of me. Brothers, I don't remember crying, but I know I'm sure I was crying. And my brother said to me, he's like, you got to be quiet, and you can't tell anybody. He's like, because if you tell, you're gonna get in trouble. And it was like, okay. And I was the little sister just wanting to be with my brothers. And so we walked not quite a half mile home. We walked from the woods down the road into the house. And he took me upstairs into the bedroom and. And had me hide in the closet. And he told me I wasn't allowed to say a word or else I was going to get in trouble. And I remember sitting in the dark in the closet in the corner, just sitting there all curled up. And I never really knew what happened until my mother, when I got older, she told me of the story that she came home and she literally followed the blood trail into the house, upstairs and into the closet. And I was sitting there, my face was all cut up, my lips were swollen, my nose was bloody. And like, I think of those stories, and as crazy as they are, I'll tell you what my brothers taught me. They really taught me my best asset. And my best asset was to take a deep breath and just keep moving forward. And I never realized that, honestly, until yesterday, what they did for me here all these years, I. I've always looked up to my father and thought he was this big athlete. And it was just my brothers being brothers and torturing their little sister that actually, you know, created this crazy strength inside of me. And to be honest with you, what do I do when I hit those moments? How do I endure? It's about me helping others. You know, when Joe said, amy, you're leading the strong group, you got 3,000 burpees. If you guys all don't go down at the same time and come up at the same time and jump at the same time, you're starting over. And when you look around at everybody and you see that they're struggling or you see that they're in pain, it has now become my job to make sure they. They all get through. And they also get to essentially the finish line. Because I know once you get to the finish line, no matter if it's a race, no matter what it is, all the good things in life, they are so difficult. But once you obtain them and once you reach that goal, that's something that stays with you for the rest of your life. So, although hard, it's going to carry you forever. And for me, it's my job to help carry those people and get them to essentially their finish line, Whether it's losing that five pounds, doing another burpee, you know, crawling for 12 hours under barbed wire, whatever it is, it's about helping others. So for me, it's about helping others, and it's about setting the best example I can for my family as well.

And let's talk about that for a second, because I saw that on Your bio. Is 12 miles on your belly under barbed wire. Help clarify this for both me and for listeners of the show. Is that exactly how it sounds? Is that exactly what that was, or is this an exaggeration? Like, what is this?

I think I only did 7.2.

You did seven and a half. Eric did 7.75.

Oh, it made me so mad, too, because somebody else was crawling with me. But literally, that's what it was. It was. You have 12 hours to crawl under barbed wire. Razor barbed wire, the kind that cuts you. You had 12 hours. You were going through the rocks, the mud, water, 12 hours to crawl as far as possible. And for me, with the prosthetic leg, I actually had to take my prosthetic leg off because I couldn't drag it behind me. So the whole time, it was really just crawling with the one leg. And I remember somebody was saying to me, they're like, how are you crawling so fast? So I showed him how to crawl as fast as I was crawling, and it ended up coming back to bite me in the butt because he actually passed me.

I think you get some credit here for training points. You should get, like, 10% cut for the manager here or something.

But, yeah, and that's what it is. There was nothing that I could do to change it. Could I quit? Yeah. I'd have to live with that forever. But there was nothing that I could do to change it. So it's about head down and keep moving forward and figure it out. You know, this hurts. Okay? It's a feeling. I feel tired. Okay, well, you know what? Tired is just a feeling as well. And we didn't realize when we were. You know, we have kids that are 8 and 10 years old. They don't realize when they're tired. They know they're tired because we say, oh, you're acting this way because you're tired. So it's something that we've conditioned ourselves to be. It's something that I learned. It's something that someone told me. So it is just a feeling. So keep moving on. Because whether I keep moving or I stop, I'm still going to feel tired. And if I feel pain, you obviously have to evaluate the situation and not do permanent damage. But is it pain? Because I'm tired and I have muscle fatigue. And if it is, figure it out. Change your position, change your stride, change whatever it is to continue to keep moving. Because no matter what, you got to Finish the task.

So this is fascinating. I've never considered the associations that people have about being tired, that maybe it's a training, maybe it is a conditioning, maybe it's not reality at all. I've never looked at it that way before. So are you suggesting then that if we imagine a theoretical parent and child scenario where instead of essentially saying, oh, you're tired, therefore you're stumbling, or you're tired, therefore fill in the blank, then maybe if I said instead, you're tired, so push a little harder or you're tired, so do a self assessment, what can you do? Right, you're tired, so what can you do just a little bit more of? And what maybe can't you do? But let's be objective here instead of automatically coming to this conclusion that we have to stop completely. Like, is this the kind of thought train that we're going down right here, right now? Amy?

So for me, I mean, essentially, yes, it is. People will sit there and say, how can you be wearing shorts? How can you, you know, it's snowing out, how are you wearing shorts and flip flops? Cold is just a feeling. I didn't realize I was cold until every time I was in this temperature. My mom and dad would say, oh my gosh, it's cold out, you're going to freeze. It's cold, you're going to freeze. So when I go outside, yeah, am I cold? Sometimes, yeah. But I'll tell myself that I'm not and I'll actually be just fine. I was in the beginning stages of the Ultraman. So The Ultraman is 6.2 mile swimming followed by a 90 mile bike ride. Then you go into another segment of 170 some mile bike ride and then the next time is a 52.3 mile run. And I remember getting in the water and I had 6.2 miles to swim. I was freezing. I mean freezing. My body was literally shaking in the water as I was swimming. I was only a half mile into it and all I wanted to do was quit. And I literally just reset my mind and remembered what it felt like to lay on the beach in the sun and the warmth of the sun. And I actually talked myself into feeling warmer. And you can take that logic and apply it to anything. I remember it was just recently when we had everything with social distancing. A lot of the posts were going out and people were saying, be strong during these difficult times. And I understand when you physically lose someone in your life, that is difficult times. And by no means am I Ever touching base on that. I'm talking about people who. Who are upset because they can't go to the gym or upset because they can't go hang out or whatever. And I kind of gave my what for. Christopher will always say, when I get mad, it's like I'm throwing marshmallows at people because I really don't get angry. But he's like, you just threw a bunch of marshmallows. But it was my kind of rant and rave that I had an accident. And the next thing, I was in the hospital and I was faced with losing my leg. I was there for two months, and they kept taking bits and pieces all over my body to try and save it. Then next thing I knew, I had a surgery, and they took an artery and a vein and the entire muscle flap out of my arm and put it into my foot. And I stayed in ICU for three days. And by all means, I know other people go through worse. And I remember coming out and going into the room, and the doctor came in and he said, everything looks great. Your foot is going to survive. He's like, you just have to stay here for 15 more days. And I about lost my mind. He left the room. And I was so sad because I had to lay in a bed for 15 days with my arm out to the side. I wasn't allowed to sit up. I wasn't allowed to get out of bed. So for 15 days, I had to stay there. And I was so sad that the next time when the nurse came in to do the Doppler on the artery that was actually transplanted in my foot, she must have immediately went and got the doctor. And the doctor came in, said to me, he's like, if you want me to cut it off right now, I'll cut it off. He said, because your attitude and where you just went because you can't go home. He said, I may as well cut it off now because you're going to kill your foot. Where I went mentally because I was selfish and I was sad that I had to stay another 15 days in the hospital was essentially killing my foot. My foot going to survive to him cutting it off because it was my outlook. It was just my whole attitude changed. And he said, if you don't change your attitude, we'll cut it off now and I'll send you home. And I learned a lot from that as well. That your mind can do amazing things, and it's all about where you want to go with it.

And is this subject like a Mind over matter. Is this what we're talking about right now?

I'm a big. Mind over matter.

It's a mind over limitations.

Mind over limitations. Okay. When I said mind over matter, I said it with some hesitancy because some people have a sort of non tangible, kind of mystical, whimsical association with the phrase. So I really appreciate how you've rephrased it to be mind over limitations. Instead, it's more definable. It's almost a little bit more scientific at that point. Is that your own twist or did you just naturally evolve to that understanding on its own?

When you think of the concept, right, you can accomplish anything if you're given enough time. If you need to do a 5,000 mile race, literally one foot in front of the other over a period of time until you get to the end. And that's how you accomplish any task, whether it's these ultra marathons or extreme adventure races where we're and I met, we're actually 54 hours into an event and it covered roughly the 25,000 miles of elevation gain carrying 75 pounds on our backs. And we were moving boulders, we were solving riddles and we were land navigating and all this other stuff. And we were both coming out of the river at the same time. But what you realize is that as long as you just put one foot in front of the other, you'll achieve whatever task you're going to go. It's just you have to decide to go do it. And that's where the mind over limitations come from, because you don't really know what you're capable of until you decide, I don't want to fail. And her and I have kind of similar backgrounds when we're growing up and stuff. It's, you don't want to lose. And the only way not to lose is not to quit. And by not quitting, you're just deciding, I don't want to give up. And that's kind of goes back to your discussion earlier where you're sitting in a pub with somebody and they built this wall around them. Well, the easiest way to tear down the wall is they just have to decide themselves. Or in our instance, we can show them that they have the capability to be more than what they currently perceive themselves. And that's all by taking that one step and then once they get there, take another.

When I was younger, somewhere around 15 or 16 people listening right now, and you know my story, dropped out of school and kind of ran away from home and lived in a House where there was a lot of drugs. And naturally, I got into a lot of trouble. And one of the things I got in a lot of trouble with was we were out at this party, and it was a big biker party on private property. And there was a large query on the property where at some point in the past, a couple decades ago or whatever, they were digging for some sort of mineral. I think it was granite, I have no idea. But there was this big pit in the middle of the property, and the miners accidentally struck a water vein. So they struck a little underground stream, and the quarry filled up. The whole mine filled completely with water, and they couldn't find a way to deviate it or divert it or flush it out. So the mine shut down and the water filled up, and it became a good swimming hole. So everyone goes there and parties on private property and swims, right? There's no police, there's no monitoring. It's just party time. So there I was partying at 16. I think I was 16 at the time. And I'd smoked a bit, and I was drinking beers as well. And when I was younger, I used to take swimming classes. So I thought, oh, okay, I can do this. I can swim across the quarry. And so I jumped in the water with a friend, and we started to swim across. Sure, no problem. This is great, right? We're having fun, and we're being macho and swimming across this thing in front of our friends. And anyways, it was a long swim. So after a while, we can't really see the shore all that well, and my friends are doing their own thing. And so I started to realize I was really, really tired. You know, my arms got weak and my legs got weak, and I looked across to where we were trying to go, and I laughed. It laughed in my mind. I was like, oh, there's no way in hell I'm ever going to make that. There's something wrong. Either it's the alcohol or what I was smoking or whatever it is, or I'm out of shape. I can't make it all the way across. So let's do the logical thing. Let's stop and turn around and go back. So I stopped, turned around, and when I looked back at the shore that we had started from, I realized that I was. The distance back to the shore we started was the same distance as continuing to the other side. We were directly in the middle, right in the center of this big, giant water hole. And there was no option. It's the same distance either way. And I had Already concluded that making it wasn't a possibility at all. So here I am and I'm stuck, right? I'm not going to make it. I know it. And so panic just overcame and overtook my body. I could just feel it. My muscles froze up, my thoughts got a little bit blurred, I could feel everything tense and what am I going to do? So the automatic reaction that I remember was my friend was still swimming very near me and my automatic reaction was to jump on his back. People have these automatic reactions, these knee jerk reactions that aren't thought through. They're just an emotional response. And my thought process was to jump on his back. And I'm very grateful that I had just enough wits about me to decide that that's the wrong thing to do. The thought was that even if I survived, it wouldn't be right because, you know, I'd be killing someone in the process. It was a weird, a very, very weird, surreal experience to feel that panic and to hear and to see that thought process. So anyways, I decided not to jump on his back and not let the panic overtake me and just to keep swimming until I drown, right? That was the conscientious thought process. So off goes my friend. He's not looking back. He doesn't care. I guess he just kept on swimming. And I trailed behind slower and slower and started to go under a little bit. And I remember saying to myself in my mind, I remember saying, all right, Eric, I know I can't make it to the other side, but I can definitely take one more stroke. I can definitely move my arm forward and push a little more water away so it propel me forward. I can do that at least one more time. So I did it. I took another stroke. And when that was done, I remember saying to myself, look, Eric, I know that I have at least one more in me after that. So I did another stroke and then kicked a little bit and I was like, all right, I know I can do one more. So I took another stroke and it was this grueling, long, drawn out process of one stroke at a time. Really break it down to just one stroke and that's all that matters. Do the next one. All right, great. Now let's just do one more. Take that stroke. And next thing you know, I got all the way across to the other side. And when my hand hit that rock, I just sat there for what, 10 minutes, just regathering strength to pull myself up on the shore. But I made it. It wasn't the end of the road. It was like you said, it was a mind over limitations. It was a false limitation in my mind, and it just took a mental shift to approach the problem differently. And it helped me get through, and ultimately I survived. It's something I think about at least a few times a year. I really relive that experience and reflect on it. It was a truly magical moment for me, where I went from, okay, I'm about to die to, hey, I made it. Now, of course, Amy, you've taken this concept and pushed it to the nth degree. Like, you've gone all the way to Mars twice and back again with this concept. So what do you think, Amy and Chris? What would the world be like if everyone had this mind over limitations attitude and broke through all their limitations? Now, where would we be as a society?

We would be unstoppable. I remember we were doing a workout, and we had 100 burpee day challenge for 100 days. And so I said, okay, I'm going to do my 100 burpees, and then I'm going to do 100 for somebody else. And so every day I would do 200 burpees. And I remember one day I finished my burpees and there was three other athletes, and they were kind of sitting there and they were looking at me and they're like, why would you do something like that? And I said, why not? If you're told to do 100, why not do 101? Why not push yourself past where somebody says stop? If they say five rounds, why not do six? Because if you're always told to stop at five, you never know who you're going to be unless you push past and go to six. So I think for us, the way we've been raised and how we go about things, when you think you can't take one more step, you need to take one more step. But in this household, you need to take five. It's not about taking one more step. It's about taking five more steps. Because you're going to then realize who you can be. And if you never push, if you never get into that uncomfortable stage and don't push out of it or don't figure it out, you're never going to understand who you are. You're never going to understand the limitlessness of you. You're always going to have some kind of a boundary around you. And, yeah, people might sit there and say, well, that's crazy. I don't want to run 100 miles, or, I don't want to run 135 miles. I don't want to do 3,000 burpees. You're silly. For crawling for 12 hours under barbed wire. Yeah, maybe I'm silly. But what I get out of it has changed me forever. And it has made me and our family unstoppable. We are unstoppable, and there is nothing that will stop us. Are these times difficult right now?

Not really, no.

I mean, it is what it is. This is something. This is a constant situation right now that we cannot change. Can we make this situation better? We absolutely can. To be honest with you, I hugged my daughter last night and I said, I am so thankful for what has happened and what is happening right now because it has brought us all together as a family. We would never have this time together. We would never learn these different things about us because life has become so fast paced. And when you are out there in these races and you're doing these things, you learn who you are. You never know really who you are until you're put under stress or struggle. And it's that quote, it's our struggles that show us who we really are, and it shows us our strengths. We get our strengths from our struggles. And, I mean, that's what we're all about. That's what our family is all about.

I love this. And as soon as we come back from this short break, Amy, I want to ask you on behalf of people that are listening and watching and, you know, they're saying to themselves, well, how do I get to this point where I can overcome my own limitations and do 3,500 burpees? Because obviously, everyone really wants to do 3,500 burpees.

3,000.

Oh, yeah, sorry. 3,000. Only 3,000 burpees. So, yeah, when we come back, the question will be, what can someone do today to be on that path, to break through those mental limitations? When we come right back from this short break, Eric here. I hope you're enjoying the episode today. This is a passion project that I put together. I really wanted to do this. I really want to help people out there. And I. I had so many people reach out to me when I was younger and when I was having a tough time and struggling. I've written a book about it. You can check it out on my website. Please do. But most importantly, reach out to me. Give me some feedback. What could I do better with this podcast? What am I doing that I should stop? What am I not doing that I should do? Tell me your experience. Give me some tips and suggestions. I really want to design this to suit your needs. And all you got to do is send me an email. It's EricEric GilbertWilliams.com or use the contact me button that you'll find on my website. Just send me an email. We'll have a phone call or we'll chat online. Doesn't really matter. I would love to hear from you and figure out how to make this show even better with your help. So please reach out and don't be shy. We're back now here on from rock bottom, the Rockin it with Amy and Chris. Thank you again very much for coming to be here on the show and for making the time for it and also everyone listening. Remember to please share this episode with someone. Please just share it right now. It means the world to me. It means the world to Amy and Chris, and it means the world to whoever it is that you're sharing with that needs to hear it. Someone who needs to hear the story, just share it with them. And so back to Amy. The question that we left off with was what can someone do today, right now, to break through these limitations and to clarify the subject here? The context could be anything, right? It could be someone's going through a divorce or it's a bankruptcy or maybe they've lost a limb, or maybe there's a mental illness or an addiction or a business problem. Whatever it is, whatever it is that feels like a limitation or an obstacle, what can someone do today to approach the problem with a different mindset, to overcome this limitation?

You know, anything that you go through, where you feel that discomfort, where you start to feel the sadness or you start to feel like you want to quit any of those situations, whether it's being a parent, a friend, co worker, whether it's in your educational career, athletic career, anything in life, whenever you start to feel that twinge of discomfort that makes you want to draw back, that's when you need to ask yourself why. So any situation in life, it has nothing to do with racing. Any situation in life where you feel that reaction to draw back, you need to ask yourself why? What is it that's making me draw back? What is it that's making me want to stop? What is it that's making me want to turn around or give up? What is it that's making me feel sad? Confront what it is, and then you need to understand it and then you have to realize that you can get through it. Chris is son. I mean, he's an amazing guy. He's talented, he's smart, he's funny. And he's going to do great things in life. And when he came to stay with us, one of the first words out of his mouth was, why have adhd? And I can't focus. I was like, whoa, this is definitely the wrong house to have any excuses. Because it doesn't matter what we face. We have to figure it out. If we have difficulty focusing, we have to figure out what are the things that can help us focus, what are the things that we can do to make us stronger in that area that we lack all of those situations.

For me, it's more of a practical standpoint.

Right.

If you ever built a puzzle, there's.

A certain way to do it.

First, you'll turn over all the pieces, and then you'll build the outside border, and then you'll pick light colors that kind of match together, and you'll that little portion of it. If you look at a problem the same way, like if you take the problem as a whole, it looks like a pile of puzzles where there's 2,000, 3,000. It's just a big mess of crap. You can break it in the little pieces, right? And so you take those little pieces and then you go, well, what's the easiest thing to work on right now? Can I accomplish that? Yeah, I can accomplish that. And so you'll build that section. All right, so the next hardest, what's that? And can I accomplish that? And you'll accomplish that. And soon you're beginning to attack whatever problem it is, whether it's someone dying or suicide or your parents passing away or loss of a job. And we've experienced every single one of those things that you've been through, whether it's overcoming addictions or like my last wife, she committed suicide. And, I mean, Amy's lost a leg, and we've done all these adventure races and things like that. So we also. She works with an organization that helps little kids that don't have the opportunities with the One Step Ahead foundation to have that chance at life. And I work with a veterans organization that does the same thing with combat wounded veterans that have lost limbs and lost arms and things like that. And they want to turn to drinking and alcohol and things like that, and helping them realize that they can be more than who they are. And it's all about breaking things into pieces that are manageable, accomplishing those. And then as you do things over time, you begin to realize that, big picture, I can accomplish this task if I just break it into pieces.

It's unique in that way that, you know you take a look at all the kids in our house, and one is a visual learner, One is, you know, everybody learns in a different way. And so that's what's unique about how we do things, is we all do things differently, but it's all to accomplish one goal. And just like with Gavin, I mean, to see where he was when he came here in August.

Yeah, hot mess.

I mean, he is successful, doing great in school, on his way into the military. And because he has no excuse now, he figured a way to create the strengths around him to get through it. It's kind of people will say, well, I have a bad back. I can't do whatever. I totally get that. You know, I have four herniated discs and bulging discs. I get all of it. So what I do is I strengthen everything around it and everything around it kind of keeps that in place and holds it together. And that's how you take those issues in life. You strengthen things around it to help you continue to move forward. And for us and for anybody else out there, when you feel that twinge that you want to draw back or that twins that some sadness or something like that, that's when you need to take a look at things and see how you can fight it, because you can fight it and you can beat it. And people will say, well, I just need to feel sad. And that is great. I've had some serious pity parties, you know, myself, where I sit there and I feel down and I get sad and squirt a couple tears. But being sad and being mad is not going to get me anywhere. It's still not going to change anything. It's not going to change anything. It's just going to make me feel worse. So it's about. You feel those emotions, you get back up, you keep moving and you understand them and then you get stronger so you can push past them.

I can see how both of you essentially have the same thought process. So I have to ask, how did you guys meet?

I want to say June 25th of 2014, we both started this event. It's called a death race and it's put on by Peak Races, which is owned by Spartan. And that's Amy mentioned the owner of that Joda center earlier.

You found love in the Death Race. I love it.

Oh my gosh.

9Am at 8:54 they said go. And so we run up and down this mountain and then end up grabbing our gear bag and then doing it again and then building steps up the mountain. And then later there's there's land navigation. There's, there's 22 mile tracks and they're solving riddles and carrying logs and chopping down trees and building primitive axes and more riddles and more punishments and more things. So 54 hours in, we had just spent 20 minutes in the woods, not allowed to speak or move. And then we had to race down a river that we had spent hours building this stone wall on somebody's property and come up on somebody's property and we happened to be at the bank coming out of the river at the same time.

Okay, I got there first and then.

She'S like, you go. Cause she feels it's going to take her a while. I'm like, no, you go. And then like she ends up like getting verbally abusive, cursing, swearing. And so we get out and that's kind of where we connected the first time. And then we spend the next couple hours like rolling around somebody's yard and mowing 5 foot tall grass with our.

Bodies rolling like logs. Have you ever rolled as an adult like that?

It's miserable. Then we race back to another 5km or so to get our concrete bag that we have to carry over our heads to a ravine.

£80. The concrete bag was £80.

I'm sitting here racing her back and she's got, I mean, one leg and I'm like, I had blisters on my feet, but I had two legs. And I was like, I'm not gonna let her beat me back. Passing me and then I have to pass her back and she passes me and passing her back. We met there first and then didn't think anything of it. And then that same year was the same time they had this obstacle course racing world championship. So she was there again and she was crossing this what they call the platinum rig and a guy out of Canada makes it and she, I'm like, I had already finished the male portion of the race, so she's doing her age group and by the way, wins her age group. And she's the first female amputee to complete that particular event. So that just adds to the accolades. But I'm coaching her for it and she kind of remembers that. And then so that just kind of led to later on. We've been in the same realm of things with adventure racing over the years. Several years ago, she sends me a message. She goes, I don't know why and I don't know how, but I was thinking about you. And then I don't care either. And then just that was the message out of the blue out of nowhere. And so then we began talking, and then we went on a date on Mount Whitney where I froze to death and she laid on top of me to keep me warm.

So, yeah, Mount Whitney ended up being her first date. It was funny.

He's like, I burnt my retinas.

He's like, I'm going to hike. Hike Mount Whitney. Well, I've always ran Badwater, and you end at the. Yeah, right at the trailhead. So I was like, wow, how epic would this be? Because at the end of the race, you can. Prior to the race, you can never obtain a permit because everybody already has the permit. So finishing the race and then climbing the mountain is hard to get done. So having the opportunity to go climb it in the cold season was a great idea and a great first date. So. But in my head, I'm like, okay, he knows what he's doing. He's good at this stuff. We parked the car, he took off like a rocket down over the side of. I don't even know where we were. But for the next. I want to say, like, five hours. I'm thinking to myself, oh, my God, I'm going to die. I'm going to fall and die. I'm going to fall and die. Because he was going so fast. But it was all I could do just to figure it out, calm down and keep up with them and keep my footing with the prosthetic leg. And then fortunately, he, you know, burnt out five hours into it. And I was able to do my mule thing because I'm better at. I'm good at climbing mountains. And all in all, when we got to the top, he actually burnt his retinas. He actually. It was like a welder's flash from the reflection of the snow up into his eyes. But at one point, it was so cold that you had started to go hypothermic.

Yeah.

And we found a rock, and he crawled into his sleeping bag underneath the rock. And then I crawled into my sleeping bag and laid on top of him for 12 hours just to keep him warm, because he was. He was literally freezing. And after the 12 hours, we climbed his. We climbed up as high as we.

Can go without getting an avalanche. We just found everybody else's footprints because there's only five people on the mountain. When we went, they just had a huge snow. And so we found their footprints. And then we went up another, probably 500ft from there. And then as the mountain started to move around us, we're like, okay, it's time to turn Back.

And this is your first date we're talking about here?

Yeah, that was our first date.

This is amazing. This almost deserves its own segment of the show.

The next day was putting up raw potatoes on his eyes so he could.

Some phones have a charge light on them. The charge light hurt my eyes.

Oh, wow.

We're in a room, pitch dark, made with potatoes on them. And she actually went to the emergency room and faked having welders flash to get the ointment and stuff for me to put on my eyes.

Yeah, well, you gotta do what you gotta do, right?

It was an epic moment.

Yeah, you gotta take care of your first date. So just as we're wrapping up here, a couple little fun questions followed by a more serious one. And so first answer that comes to your head. What's the craziest experience that's ever happened to you while running, ever? Either one of you. It doesn't matter who.

Either way, it'd probably be that when we're running back from coming out of the river and she's cussing up a storm and we're racing back to her.

Actually, one of my craziest experiences was I was in the city challenge, and I'm running, and it was the elite field of girls. And so we take off around a track, and we're sprinting around this track, and we get to the other side, and we climb up on this little ridge, and we're going through this segment that has a bunch of kickboxing bags. And they're just kind of like. This looks like a car wash. And you're going through as the car. As I'm running through these kickboxing bags, one of the kickboxing legs swings over and just perfectly hits the release button on my leg. So I'm running and I'm feeling awesome. Then all of a sudden, I was like a hot mess all over the ground. My leg flew off. I was like a bloody mess. I think that was, like, one of my epic moments in running.

That was pretty funny.

Yeah, that's extreme.

It was crazy. My leg flew off. Wiped out.

Now, if you had to go back and say, and what's the first thing that comes to your mind about what's the most extreme experience that you're most proud of on a personal level? Something you made it through, like a challenge or a limitation that you made it through, and you're just really proud of it, what would it be?

I know this sounds weird just because we've done so many different things, but I think one of my proudest things endurance wise is we had to chop a bunch of wood in the death race and we actually had to take our wood, transport it to the road, then one by one take it across the road and up top. And what we ended up doing was supplying a local inns wood source for the entire winter. And I think one of my best endurance stories was my two kids were sitting on the side of the road waiting and they were passing out popsicles as everybody was struggling to try and endure and they were just bringing that little piece of happiness. I know it's not your typical, I just ran 100 miles across the finish line. But for me it's things like that in the middle of just despair and agony and where you have self doubt and you question yourself, it's those little rays of sunshine that are more than a finish line.

So now wrapping up with a little more of a serious question coming to the end here, or let's say a heartfelt question. If you were to go backwards in time and speak to yourself, say back to when you were having that conversation with a doctor and he was saying that it's going to take 15 more days, if you were to go backwards in time and sit on the edge of that hospital bed and look at your past self in the eye and you had say 30 seconds to give your past self a piece of advice, what would you say?

Most people probably would not believe this, but I wouldn't say a word because I wouldn't be where I am right now. I wouldn't have the life that I have right now and I wouldn't have the loved ones that I have around me right now. Because just that one tiny thing or that one piece of advice would have changed my entire life. And I am honestly so happy and thankful for where I'm at in who I have in my life.

You had to go through it as is, you mean? And it just had to be that way.

Yeah, it makes it so. Makes you you.

To be honest with you, you do. Because realistically, as much as Stacy wants Carson to make that time machine, we don't have time machines and we can't go back and change things. So why even wonder about it? Why waste the time?

And from a serious note, like too many people nowadays are looking for somebody to fill that void or something to fill that void. Like if you would do this, it would make me happy. If you would do this, it would make me happy. If you would do. And perspective is a powerful tool. And if you realize that all relationships are be completely happy with who you are, where you are at and what you have been through. Because no matter what, somebody has it worse and somebody always has it better. You, you have to be secure enough in who you are and what you want and then take that part of you and then share that you with somebody else. And then your you and their you come together, it makes a week. And that's kind of where we are in our relationship. It's not, I'm not looking to get or gain or even have her. I have zero expectations and likewise, she has zero of me. And we kind of raise our kids the same aspect. It's what can you give individually to make the world a better place? And then we just all kind of come together and do it as a family unit.

And to be honest with you, if we spend time saying what if? Or maybe I could have you waste the time on your forward momentum, just like I said, because you can't change it. You cannot change anything. But you can change what's ahead. And that's where your focus should lie is what's coming next and how can I do better and be better and.

What'S coming next on your side, if I understand correctly, is a book that you're right in the middle of writing. I hope that you stay in touch and let me know exactly when that comes out.

Yes, we have a book and we actually have Marathon Desabes coming up as well and the Boston Marathon, which would be very epic event because we have the Boston Marathon like the day before we have to leave for Marathon de sable which is 150 miles in the desert. So we have to run a marathon to leave the country to run five or six marathons.

You are both true inspirations together. I really appreciate you taking the time for the show. Anyone listening here who wants to find out more about Amy or Chris? I'm going to put some links on the show notes to this episode for you. To find them just go to the website, click on this episode, scroll down to the bottom and you will see some URLs. And that's the easiest way to find Amy and Chris and to reach out to them and to have a conversation and see what they're up to. Remember also to check out their YouTube videos. Now Amy, Chris, what's the best way for people to actually reach you? Like, do you have a LinkedIn or something like that on the website?

There's a link that just contact us and everything will get funneled through me and then doled out to Amy and myself as need be.

But I think one of the important lessons to take away from this is because you chose to tell your story. That's why we're here today. So the more of us who can tell our story and show people that yes, you face adversity and adversity happens and obstacles hit you all the time, but you hit those head on and you keep moving. And so it's about everybody coming together and joining you and telling their story and feeling comfortable enough to tell their story. And it's these stories as they just grow and feed off each other that just spread out and fan out and hopefully we will be able to help people understand that they really are limitless.

I really do believe that. Yeah. And you're right. So look, I really hope that we do stay in touch for sure. When the book comes out, let me know and I'll share the URL and share it with the listeners. Basically, I'm just fine looking for any reason to be able to chat with you guys again. Of course, absolutely.

Yes. We gotta get Chris's story.

Yeah. And maybe next time we'll switch the focus a little bit to everyone out there listening. Thanks again for checking out the show. We'll be around next week again. And remember, if you're having some limitations your life, ask yourself if they are limitations that are true or ones that you might actually be able to break through. Re listen to this episode if you like. I think there's a lot of valuable tips and advice in there. I'm definitely going to be reflecting on this concept of what is a limitation and what is tired. So yeah, you guys have a great day out there. Keep on rocking it. We'll see you here next week. Share this episode subscribe. Give me a five star rating. I'd love it. And we'll talk to you guys next time. And that's it, my friends, for this episode. We will see you next time. Please send me an email, say hello, give me some feedback, let me know what you think, give me some tips and suggestions. I'd love to hear from you. Also, please share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, doesn't matter. Just get it out there. I really appreciate it. And we'll see you next time on from Rock Bottom to Rockin It. Have a Rockin it.