24: Frauded $100,000 to Catching his Thief & Serving Justice // The Story of Johnathan Walton

I started hearing from victims in Florida, victims in Tennessee, victims in New York, and then the ultimate call I get from a police detective in Northern freaking Ireland. There are not enough people standing up and saying, no, this is wrong. We can't have this. This is not right. Because it's hard to do the right thing. It's hard to be the one to stand up and try to stop stuff and report stuff. It's easy to look the other way and pretend it's not happening. But you know, nine out of ten times when you're faced with the decision that the hard choice is the right choice.

Welcome to From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. I'm your host, Eric Gilbert Williams, and this is the podcast where we explore personal stories of people who hit absolute rock bottom, then got back up, wiped off the dust, kicked failure to the curb, and now they're rocking it like you'd never believe if you didn't hear it. Live. Right here we cover subjects in business, sports, and life in general. If you like this podcast, please share it. These interviews are intended to inspire, to motivate, to give hope and vision. So please share this episode with someone who needs it. Use your Instagram Account, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn. Hand signals. Trained pigeon sent smoke signals up in the air. Use Morse code, whatever you like. Just share the love and share this episode. Also, email me anytime. Podcasterrickgilbertwilliams.com Send me questions you would like to have asked of future guests and I will incorporate them. Or just send me some suggestions on how to run a better podcast. Or just say, hello, I'd love to hear from you. That's podcastricilbertwilliams.com I know you're going to love today's interview, so let's get started here with us today on From Rock Bottom, the Rockin it is Jonathan Walton. And Jonathan's story is about justice. It's about the law. It's specifically about white collar crime. White collar criminals are the ones who sneak through the justice system. They just slip right through the cracks and they have the ability to hurt people from the inside out. And I know all about this as well because I've had to deal with this more than once in my last company. These type of people, they steal money and they wreak havoc on people's emotional systems. And John was a victim who turned himself into a vigilante. He exposed his criminal, found them, and ultimately Jonathan won. John, welcome to the show. How you doing today?

I am good. Thank you so much for having me.

Of course. Now your Story, maybe. Let's start by you explaining in your own words what happened here. You had a rock bottom moment that absolutely devastated you, and you also had a rock in it moment where you went through the process with tenacity and you captured, you found this person out and locked them up. And you've essentially helped prevent this type of traumatic situation from happening to many other people as well.

I did, you know, and it's filled me with this profound sense of purpose and understanding about why it happened to me. And it was meant to happen to me. I was meant to grow from it. And I was meant to help possibly hundreds of other people I never even met or never will meet because of it. So, in short, I was the victim of an international con artist who, who bankrupted me, essentially. She scammed me out of almost $100,000 while pretending to be my best friend. This was a woman who was masquerading as a new neighbor. She was a new neighbor in my building and she had a funny accent. You know, she said she was from Ireland. And we became really good friends over this situation in my apartment building. We had just lost use of our Olympic sized swimming pool and residents of our building were up in arms. You know, how are we going to get the pool back? Another building had kind of legally taken it from us. They voided a contract they'd signed years ago. So we were fighting to get the pool back. And that's when I met a woman who introduced herself as Mare Smith. M A I R S M Y T H Mare Smith. That's who she told me she was. And she kind of took control of this meeting we had of all the residents in my apartment, you know, to get the pool back. And she said she can help. And she said her boyfriend is a lawyer and we need to form a tenants association. We're going to get the pullback. So everybody kind of loved her immediately. She was lovable and I loved her immediately. My husband and I loved her immediately after that night. She would take us out for these dinners all the time. As she slowly unpacked her story, which we didn't realize was a story at the time, we thought it was true. Because when you meet someone in your building and they're like, hey, I'm from Ireland, like, don't you just believe they're from Ireland? I mean, what neighbor is gonna lie where they're from? Yeah. So that's how I used to be. I used to be very accepting of what everyone tells me, but now I background check everyone. So she starts Taking us out to dinner, these expensive dinners. And she insists on paying. You know, she says she has a lot of money. She's from Ireland. She's gonna inherit this $5 million. Her great uncle is dividing this 25 million euro trust. And she's supposed to get 5 million euros. And that's coming soon. She lives like a wealthy woman. She had a closet full of these Jimmy Choo designer type shoes, more than, you know, 1200 bucks a pair. She had hundreds of them. And she had props. She had a framed document in her living room that she said was the Irish Constitution. And she pointed out where her uncle had signed her great uncle. So she portrayed herself as like this Irish royal woman who's about to get inheritance, you know, And I didn't know a bunch about Ireland. I really knew next to nothing about Ireland. So I just kind of accepted everything that she said because it seemed legit. I thought she was an Irish heiress. And we quickly became best friends over this pool situation. And she would show me texts and emails from her, quote, barristers. I didn't even know what a barrister was. I had to Google what a barrister is because in America, we call them lawyers. So she would show texts and emails from her barristers in Ireland working on the inheritance. So, I mean, of course it's real, right? I saw the text and emails, like, it's real. So we go along and she says she's, you know, she's working at this luxury travel agency called Pacific Islands Travel in Los Angeles. I live in Los Angeles, by the way. And she says she's only working there because she enjoys booking travel and planning trips and to skip, you know, that she enjoys, like, mapping stuff out for people. It's like a puzzle to her to figure out, you know, wealthy people's vacation needs. So she said this company does business with her family. They got her a job there just so she has something to do during the day because she doesn't need the money. She tells me, you know, she's got a ton of money. And she. She appears to have a ton of money. Oh, she's also getting plastic surgery. And the time I knew her, she got like four different plastic surgery procedures that I just dismissed as well. This is what wealthy Irish heiress women do. Like, they get plastic surgery and they have $300,000 worth of shoes in their closet. And they, you know, they buy gifts and wine and dine everyone, like. But I had no idea this entire time I was being set up for a con. She was playing the long con with me. So about 14 months into our friendship. 14 months. So that's more than a year. You think you know somebody after a year, 14 months, she tells me there's a clause in the will, you know, for the 5 million euros, that if she's ever convicted of a felony, she would get disinherited, she wouldn't inherit any money. And she also been telling me the whole time that she's not getting along with her family. They hate her, they're trying to get her disinherited. She'd show me, again, texts and emails from her cousin Finton. You know, Finton must be real, right? Because he's texting her and emailing her these angry emails, like, bitch, you'll never get money from me, you know, you Irish whore. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And a lot of emails in Gaelic that just lended the credence to what she was saying and made me believe that Fenton was a real person. So, again, I didn't. You know, it's only in retrospect I'm describing it. At the time, I really believed her family was out to get her. And when I confided in her that part of my family had disowned me because I'm gay, she's like, yeah, my family's trying to disown me and get me disinherited because they don't want me to get any money. So she bonded with me, entered my life trying to help with this pool situation, and then developed a deep bond with me because her family had disowned her, too, and my family had disowned me. So I felt like a. Like a kinship, like a camaraderie with her. Like, you know, we were like two discarded souls bonding over our family casting us out.

And this is elaborate. I mean, this is the most elaborate type of scheme that I think I've ever heard of, ever. Outside of Hollywood movies, that is.

Oh, my God. Yeah. And people say, well, why would she put so much energy into just scamming you? Well, while she was scamming me, while she was setting up this whole scam, she was scamming dozens and dozens of other people. So eventually, here's how brilliant she is. I tell her the scam after she tells me all the parameters that the family is trying to get her disinherited. If she's ever convicted of a felony, she'll be disinherited. And her family works with the travel agency. You know, they got her the job. So I'm like, listen, I pull her aside one day and I'm like, you got to be careful. Your family knows that travel agency. They might try and get you disinherited. They might try and set you up to make it look like you stole money to get you disinherited. Be careful. I've seen husbands knock their wives off for million dollar insurance policies. I mean, you read about that kind of thing all the time in the news. So I'm like, what's stopping your family from setting you up to make it look like you stole money from this travel agency so they could keep your 5 million euros? You better be careful. And then two weeks later or so, I get a call, a collect call from LA County Jail. It's her. She was arrested. I accept the call. She's like crying at this point. She's like, my family set me up. They made it look like I stole $200,000. And I'm just like, enraged because I'm like, I told you this would happen. So at this point, she's my best friend. She's like a sister to me. We're ending phone calls with, I love you. I love you. So I'm dedicating myself to helping her get her inheritance and get her out of jail. So I paid $4200 to bail her out of jail. And that's where the con started. That's where the confidence game started. So con artist is short for confidence artist, because confidence games are played the same way today, thousands of years. The confidence gain. So I lend her $4200, she pays me back the next day. Or come to find out years later, the married man she was scamming and blackmailing paid me back the next day on behalf of her. I thought it was her money. So because she paid me back the next day, I now feel, quote, confident in lending her more money. And that's how they work. And a lot of investment in Ponzi schemes work similarly, where you pay out money and initially they pay you back. So you think, oh, I'm making money through this Ponzi scheme, so it must be real. And this wasn't a Ponzi scheme. This was me helping my best friend, who I thought was a wealthy Irish heiress. I spotted her $4,200 for bail. She paid me back the next day. So in my mind, I'm like, oh, she's good for it. She's a woman of her. So then the con started. So she says she hires a lawyer, or she says she hires a lawyer, and she shows me emails and texts from this lawyer as the case is going on. She's going to get this f. The family had set her up to make it look like she stole $200,000. And the lawyers fighting in court to make to prove that that was all a scam. The family's trying to get her disinherited, and the judge agrees, and the case is going to be dismissed. So as months and months are going, you know, deeper into our friendship, we're like, two years into our friendship, three years into our friendship, this case is still being decided in court. And all I know about the case is what she tells me. I'm a reality TV producer. I work, like, 60 hours a week. I've only ever been to court for, like, a traffic ticket. I don't know how the criminal justice system works. Like, I just believe what she's telling me. Not only what she's telling me. Remember, she's showing me emails from her lawyers that are dealing with it.

Yeah. She's backing it up with real evidence that's staged specifically.

Absolutely.

To do exactly what she's doing. Yeah.

I mean, how many times in your life has someone shown you a text or an email to say, hey, look what so and so just said to me? Did you ever for a second think it was all fake? That they invented a character to text themselves to show you?

No, I never have. Yeah, of course not.

Well, now I do. I'm a different man. But so the case is going along. I believe that the fraudulent charges against her are going to get dismissed and she's going to get her inheritance. And that's what she has me believe. Then one day she says for the case to go away, she needs $50,000. That's what the district attorney is going to charge her for expenses to cancel the case, because, you know, it put them out of money. And again, I didn't know how district attorneys work. And I, you know, I didn't know. Anyone who knows the criminal justice system like I know it intimately now would know that that's bullshit. That's not how it works. But I didn't know that. I didn't know the difference between civil and criminal. I didn't know anything. So I just believe what she said. I'm a, you know, TV producer working 60 hours a week, and I didn't have $50,000 cash to give to her, but I had an 840 credit rating, so I let her charge my credit cards $50,000 to help her get her inheritance and Help her.

Yeah. You're helping your friend. Right. You're just being Helpful. You're being noble.

Yeah, she's like a sister to me at this point. So then after that happens, a couple weeks later, she comes to me. So before I gave her the 50,000, I had given her almost 20,000 because she said they froze. The DA froze her bank accounts. Her family's trying to smoke her out. They're trying to freeze her finances. She has no money, so I paid her living expenses. She was living. She had moved since then to a really swanky apartment where the rent was nearly seven grand a month. So I was paying the rent for that for her and giving her money to live on, thinking the family was trying to, like, make her life miserable so she'd give up and not want the inheritance. So I was almost $20,000 in at that point. And that's when she asked me for the 50,000 to make the case go away. And it's interesting as I say this now, the district attorney who prosecuted my case told me there's a. And I'm not a gambler, so I wasn't familiar. But there's a poker. I forget the phrasing of it, but it's. When you're playing poker, you have so much money in already that a little more is not going to hurt. You feel obligated to go at least a little more just to like finish it. You're this far deep into it. So I was 20 grand into it, helping her, and then she asked me for the 50 grand to clear her name and get the case dismissed and get her inheritance. So I let her charge my credit cards 50 grand. And then she said, and this is where she got really creative. She says, you know what? The judge is going to punish her with a 30 day jail sentence because I let her charge my credit cards to pay the quote fine. The judge considers that money laundering.

Oh, wow. So now she's playing your own guilt for having helped, like, for having helped in the first place. So now you have to fix it now?

Yes. And I start thinking about it like, is that money? Well, I guess I paid her debt with my card and it's not her money. Like, I get. Okay. She's like, listen, it's only 30 days in jail. I'll be out before you know it. And then, you know, I'll get my inheritance, everything will be fine. So I accepted that explanation again. I'm a busy guy working 60 hours a week. Okay, you're gonna spend 30 days in jail. Fine. So then she goes to jail and she's calling me every day, collect. And I Wanna come see her? This is my best friend, after all. This is like a woman who's a sister to me at this point. And she's like, no, no, no, I don't want you to see me like this. Please don't come. I don't want you to see me like this. And I'm like, no, I insist. I have to see you. So I log on to the jail's website because never visited anyone in jail and I never have at this point. And since, thankfully, you have to create a profile on the jail's website and you have to schedule a visit on a calendar on the jail's website. So I log on, I create a profile, I click her name as the inmate, and then it pops up. She's in jail for a felony. I click on the felony. She's in jail for felony grand theft for stealing $200,000 from the travel agency. I'm just, you know, a heat rushes over me because you've heard that expression, lies are like rats, and when you see one, it means there are a thousand others hiding. I'm just, I'm shaking. Looking at the computer screen, I'm shaking. I'm like, has she been lying to me this whole time? What the actual F is going on? So I take a day off of work. I go down to the LA county courthouse that her case was being heard and pull all the court records from her case just to see what this case is really about. Because obviously it's not what she told me. And as I'm sifting through the court records, I'm realizing everything she told me about this case is a lie. That $50,000 is not to pay court expenses. It was a guilty plea agreement and because she paid it, it was a 40. You know, she only needed $40,000 for the plea agreement, but she scammed me 50 that time to have an extra 10 to play with, I guess. And the reason she only got 30 days in jail, if she didn't come up with that 50 grand or 40 grand, she would have gotten a five year jail sentence. But because she paid of the 200 grand she stole, she was paying 40,000 back and agreed to pay more back over the years. She only got a 30 day jail sentence. So at this point, all I knew is she lied to me about this money. I had no idea that everything she had told me in her life was a lie. And I had no idea that while she was scamming me, everyone she'd ever introduced me to, she was scamming them too.

Yeah, just A skillfully prepared and executed elaborate plan. And as soon as we come back from this short break, Jonathan, I'm going to ask you to tell me and share with everyone listening how did this all unravel and end that after we come back from this short break. Hey everyone. Eric Here on From Rock bottom, the rockin it. And on this episode I decided to support the Kirby center located in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. I'm supporting them because I think it's a great organization focused on helping seniors. There's a bunch of programs that they do like a grocery delivery program and information resources by phone volunteer department, elder abuse resource line. There's a shelter for elderly that are fleeing from elder abuse. You can check out the website@kirbycenter.com that's Kirby with a K, so www.kirbycenter.com and my mom is doing some volunteering at a senior center as well and working with seniors and it's, it's such a great initiative. You know, sometimes we forget about people that aren't in our day to day everyday life if they're not at work or not at home. You know how it is, right? It's just out of sight, out of mind. And the Kirby center is an organization that helps to reconnect seniors back into the community and engage them in many different ways. So I encourage you to check out the website, pass the website along to someone that you might know even if you're not in Calgary. It's a great resource. It's a great place for people to learn and grow. Also, please donate whenever you can or how much you can. It's really easy to donate on the website. Just click the button, check it out. And now back to the show. And we're back now here on from Rock Bottom the rockin it. Please remember to subscribe to the channel, share it with your friends to help someone who's in need, help someone who's having a similar problem. And that's how the show grows. That's how people are helped. So remember to do that please. And Jonathan, thanks again for joining. Tell me please. And everyone listening, how did this all unravel? How did justice come to be served and what did you do?

Well, you know, it wasn't easy. So as crazy as the story sounds so far, it gets a thousand times crazier. So I realized she lied to me about the court case. As soon as she gets out of jail because she's spending 30 days in jail, I confront her in the parking lot near our apartment and I say, you've been Lying to me about how you got this money, like, this wasn't a fine. You pleaded guilty to stealing. She's like, that's not true. That's not true. And I'm like, I have the court records. You're a liar. And then she walked away, and I walked away angry.

And I got to say, right in the middle here, while you're sharing this story, I got to just throw this in. You see, I had a bookkeeper in my last company who ended up stealing about $32,000 over several transactions. I caught her on my birthday. We literally, on the day of my birthday, we finally traced down exactly where the fraudulent transactions were coming from. And I remember the day right now as if I was reliving it. I was in my office. She was in her office. And the person I was working with to help me track it down finally put the pieces together, and we could trace the money flow going directly to a particular bank account. And we got that bank account number, and through our internal records, we were able to match it exactly with the bookkeeper. So at this point, there was just no more shadow of a doubt that the money was indeed definitely going from the company into her bank account in an unauthorized way that was being hidden and smudged. And that was basically my birthday present for turning 31. So I just wanted to insert that there to let you know that I feel ya to a degree. I understand what you went through and what that does to your emotions and how that works. It's crazy. So, yeah, I just wanted to throw that in. I'm following you here.

They're all cut from the same cloth. These people, these scammers, your accountant lady and my con artist. They don't care who they hurt or how much they steal. They feel entitled to it. And I think, frankly, they get off on it. They get off on pulling one over on you. It brings them joy.

Yeah. I would see her mood go from really shy and timid and quiet, and then all of a sudden, she's really confident and laughing and standing up and talking in meetings. And it was a really drastic mood swing that would just sway back and forth. And I never really suspected at the time that it had to do with her own financial gain and her own financial situation. It hurt brain somehow. She wasn't able to sell. She just gained more confidence every time she stole and got away with it every time it happened. She just got more and more confident, and she got stronger in her own mind and more bold and just gave her enough confidence to keep doing it over and over. And then, of course, then she'd go back to normal and be scared and have bad days where she's thinking that I'm onto her and living in her own state of paranoia.

Right.

I remember the day she came in and was bragging to everyone, including me. She was bragging to me about the new car that she bought. And she bought it with my own money, without my authorization. She stole my money, bought a car, and then started gloating to me about this new car she got. So I think you're right. They do get off on it. They get excited by the thrill and by getting away with it and by being sneaky and by getting rewarded for actually doing nothing at all. But it's like they equate the reward that they're getting to their skillfulness in being sly and working the system.

Right?

And some of these people just have a psychological issue that maybe they will or will not be able to heal in their lifetime. And I was watching that movie, I actually got to see the guy in person. What was his name again? From that movie with Leonardo? Catch Me if youf Can, Frank Abagnale. There we go. Thank you. Frank Abagale. Exactly. And he's reformed now. I saw him live do a full presentation at a conference I was at a few years ago and I heard him say his own story in his whole words. And now he's reformed. Now he's working for the FBI, catching these people and preventing it from happening to other people. So sometimes people will heal from this mental issue. They have the psychological issue and they will stop stealing and clean up their act. But other times they won't. Right? And anyways, you were saying how this unraveled for you. How did you catch the thief?

It was logging in. That's the reason she didn't want me to visit her when she was 30 days in jail. I guess she might have suspected if I log onto the jail's website, I would find out what she's actually serving time for. So I confronted her in the parking lot near our apartment. She denied everything. And then I went to police the next day and police laughed me off. Police at first wouldn't even take a report. The guy's like, well, the officer, you know, I went in at 5am on a Sunday morning when no one's there. You know, incidentally, if you're ever going to file a police report, go to the police station. Sunday at 5am no one's there. They're open 24 hours. You won't have to wait behind Any crazy people. So the officer tells me, this is not a crime. You gave her the money. There was no crime. And I'm like, but she lied to get the money. That is a crime. So were haggling back and forth, me and the cop, for, like, an hour. And he eventually asked me what I do for a living. And I say, well, I'm a reality TV producer. And he's like, well, what shows have you worked on? And I start rattling off my shows, and he hears the show Shark Tank. I did a season of Shark Tank. And he's like, oh, I love that show. I have a thing I want to pitch. So I start giving him advice on how he can pitch a show to Shark Tank. And then he starts liking me, and he's like, you know what? I'll take the report then. I believe you're telling the truth. I'll take a police report now. So he takes the report, and he tells me to call every day to make sure it gets assigned to a detective. So I do. I call every day, and like, three months later, it doesn't get assigned to a detective. It gets assigned to an officer who's trying to make detective. So that's the level. Like, nobody cares. So I meet with this officer, and he interviews me for, like, two hours. And he records the interview. He tells me at the end that he recorded it. And then as I'm leaving, he tells me, well, you know, just don't give your money to strangers. Ha ha. And I'm like, you think she was estranged? Like, I don't even know. So I left there livid. And I decided, you know what? I'm going to have to start my own freaking investigation because I don't think the police are going to do anything. So I went out on this mad crusade. It took me two years. I hired six different private investigators. I started the blog. I started the website. I started systematically contacting everyone I knew that she knew. And little by little, I started finding other victims. It turns out that guy, her boyfriend, was a married guy she was blackmailing. She scammed him out of almost $100,000. Another woman she brought to our Christmas party, named Heather, she scammed out of $10,000. Everyone I reached out to had a scam story of how many thousand this woman, Mare Smith, got from them. And her real name was Marianne Smith, but she had 23 other aliases. She scammed another Hollywood producer out of a bunch of money, pretending to be best friends with Jennifer Aniston. And the more times I posted about her on My blog. And the more my blog got circulated, I started hearing from victims in Florida, victims in Tennessee, victims in New York. And then the ultimate call I get from a police detective in Northern freaking Ireland. Lived in Northern Ireland from 2000, 2008. This detective calls me and says, I've been looking for Marianne Smith for 10 years. I had no idea where she went. So she was working in mortgages in Northern Ireland between 2000, 2009, and she collected down payments on a bunch of people's homes and disappeared. All told, 26 victims she scammed out of almost $500,000 in Northern Ireland.

And that's where she funded the beginning of all this to steamroll.

Okay, that's where all the money. Yes, for all the plastic surgeries and all the shoes and all the wine dining. That's her money she was using. Plus the 200 grand she stole from the travel agency. So she was flush with cash when we met. So after about two years, I uncover 45 other victims, and I get some press attention and eventually the police, after 12 months of, quote, investigating. Because every time I found something out, I would tell the cop on my case, and he always seemed annoyed, and he would tell me, this has nothing to do with your case. This is another county or another city. I'm like, yeah, but it proves her MO She's a con artist, and these are other victims. Of course it has to do. And the cop would tell me, no, well, thank God a district attorney disagreed with the cop and filed charges, and she was arrested. She was arrested a year later and charged with grand theft by inducement for scamming me. And then it took about 20 other court appearances over the course of another year before we actually had a trial and she was put on trial. There were six different deputy DAs who prosecuted my case. It was the sixth one who went to trial. And he, of course, called all these other witnesses to testify. And I told him, you know, the cop investigating said, these witnesses don't matter. And he looked at me crazy, like, don't matter, like. But they prove her pattern. I'm like, I know. That's what I was trying to tell the cop. Of course they matter. Yeah, thank God. So his name is Jeff McGee. He's a super smart guy. He prosecuted. At the end of the day, four witnesses testified against her at trial. She couldn't find a witness to testify on her behalf.

She couldn't find someone to blackmail and testify as a witness.

The jury deliberated for three hours and came back with a guilty verdict. And she was sentenced to five years in jail. Sadly, she'll only serve two and a half years in jail. But she's in jail now. And the other good news is as soon as she gets out of jail, Northern Ireland should be extraditing her to face charges over there. So she's going to do some jail over there too.

I'm so glad, Jonathan, that you found the courage to stand up and do this. When I had discovered my bookkeeper who was stealing and I called the police, there was a lot of issues and ultimately I could not get her to be charged either.

It's hard.

Yeah. She stole all this money. And for me, I said, look, this is crazy. And I said, I don't know, literally, I didn't know what to do. And so I said to her, look, technically if you pay it all back to me right now, immediately, then all the wrongs are righted based kind of. And I guess there's no more reason for me to call the police perhaps. So I didn't know what to say. Right. I was stunned and I said that. And then she did pay me back some right on the spot, like just a little bit.

Oh, she did?

Yeah. And that's what the problem is. She paid me some. And when I told the police that, right, they said, look, if she took money from your company that she had access to in the first place and she's given some of it back to you, she's not a criminal. We can't be here any longer. You have to take it up with small claims. We're out. And they were out. They peaced out, they were gone. They just left. And that was the end of it. On a criminal side, I had to fight it out on my own.

She's a good con woman because she knew full well the minute she makes an attempt, the truth of the matter is she didn't even have to pay you any money. But her attempt to try to pay you tells means it's not a criminal case, it's a civil case, it's a loan that needs to be repaid. That's it.

And what that means is that now she can run around free, basically, she can go get another job somewhere else and steal from them as well. She can basically just rinse and repeat her plan. So here's what actually happened afterwards, right? So obviously I terminated her on the spot and that means I was short an accountant. So I hired a temporary bookkeeping agency to help fill the void until I found a better hire to replace that position. And so this bookkeeper came in to really help sort all these things out. And so obviously, this temporary bookkeeping agency was aware of the situation. They're aware that there was fraud with one of my bookkeepers. And that's the terms that they're coming in to work for me, right? So they're fully aware. And so one day, the main contact that I had at the temporary agency for bookkeeping messaged me and said, hey, who is this person? And she sent me this resume of this lady. It was my old bookkeeper. My old bookkeeper, exactly as we're talking about. As soon as she was found out over here and not and she wasn't arrested, she went immediately to get another job at another bookkeeping place, which ironically and coincidentally happened to be the same bookkeeping firm that I was hiring to fix her blunders. And she was using me as a reference. She was using my company as a reference to get hired somewhere else to repeat the scam. But what she did was she changed the reference name. She changed the person to contact at my company to be one of her friends. So she had my company name and all the details, but her point of contact wasn't someone that worked for me ever, at any point. I never even knew who this person was. It was her personal friend. So when that company was looking to contact for the reference and called up this person, they're like, oh, her friend's obviously like, oh, yeah, this person was. She was a great bookkeeper and did great work at the company, which was complete crap, obviously. But because it was this bookkeeping company that was familiar with the situation, they caught it and exposed her and asked me for verification, and sure enough, yeah, so that's just how it works. These people go out and repeat scam until they get busted. There's no limit to what these people will or won't do. Right? And most of them get away with it. That's the scary part to me. So, Jonathan, why did you choose to stand up and say no and stand up and say, I'm not stopping until you're busted? What was your motivation where 43 other people didn't have that motivation? Right. You stood out differently, right? Because you went all the way with this. Like, you went all the way and brought justice to the table, made sure it was served. Why are you different than the other 42 people who didn't?

I get asked that question all the time. Because the vast majority of victims of con artists never go to police because they're ashamed, they're embarrassed, and they don't want their friends and family to find out they don't tell a soul. What makes me different? I think what makes me different is being gay. As an openly gay man, you know, I'm 45 now. I came out when I was 30. Any openly gay person to come out and admit to the world you're gay, you've already developed a lack of care for, quote, what people think. So that shackle that prevents everyone from purporting a con artist because they're scared of what people think. I don't have that. As an openly gay man, married and living a happy life here in la, I really can't give a whole lot about what people think. It doesn't enter my realm of reasoning, because if I did care about what people think, I think I would be devastated because the majority of the world does not approve of gay people. There are countries where being gay is punish by death. You know, there are parts of the States where you can still be kicked out of your apartment for being gay or be fired for being gay. Like, the majority of the world is not approved. So as an openly gay man, I had to come to terms with 15 years ago of not giving a rat's ass what people think. And I think that indifference enabled me to cast aside the things that would have stopped other people. When talking to victims of Marianne Smith, a lot of them don't want to even mention their name. Don't want me to. You know, they'll give me info, but they don't want me to use their name or they will not go to police. There's so much shame and embarrassment, and that's how con artists thrive, on your shame and embarrassment. And here's the thing, though, and this is what also propels me forward in staying silent, you enable her to continue hurting people. So you're complicit. Now, if you're quiet, you're complicit, because she goes on to hurt other people. And I wasn't going to let that happen. So I was like a junkyard dog with a bone. I just couldn't let it go. I hired six private eyes. I spent close to $20,000 investigating her myself. And it paid off because she's in jail now. And, you know, I wrote an article for the Huffington Post about my experience, and hundreds of people started contacting me from all over the world, you know, telling me I've inspired them to prosecute their con artists. What should they do? And I'm only one guy, and I've been helping as much as I can. Oh, my God, I'm Helping a woman in Florida. Now, this poor woman, I won't give you her name because police are investigating, and it's an open case, but her husband dies. So this woman, similar to my con artist, swoops into her life, pretends to be her best friend, convinces her that all of her friends and family are trying to steal the money her husband left for her. They're coming for her money, tells her lies, literally, like Iago and Othello, whispering lies in her ear the whole time. So she separates from all of her friends and family, goes to live near this woman so the woman can protect her. She's still reeling from the death of her husband. And over the course of months, this woman bilked her out of close to $300,000. It's just insane. She read my article, and it clicked. She's like, all the things I wrote about Mayor Smith doing to me, she's like, those are similar things to what this woman's doing to me. I wonder if I'm getting scammed. And she called me and she emailed me, and I responded, and I offered to run a background check, because now I'm like an investigator. I run background checks on everyone. And I ran a background check on this woman, and I'm like, yeah, she's scamming you. She's got a trail of felonies for passing bad checks and grand theft and tons of people suing her for scamming. Like, you are being a scam. Go to police. And I helped her go to police. And they're investigating now. But, yeah, it's. You know, I understand why this happened to me because at first, I felt for forsaken by God. Like, I've been a good person my whole life. I've helped a lot of people. I'm always the first to loan money to people. Like, I'm a good guy. Why would God let this happen to me? And then the answer came. It was meant to happen to me. A. I was meant to stop Marianne Smith from ever conning anyone again. And I literally said when her lawyer asked in court, when I was testifying at trial, he tried to make it look like I invented this whole story so I can make a documentary and sell documentaries. You're a reality producer. You want to make a good documentary. You made this all up. So he's like, why would you make a documentary about it? And I'm like, I'm making a documentary because by the time I'm done with Marianne Smith, the world will know her face. So she can never scam anyone again, by golly, that's what came to pass. I've been covered in stories in the uk, in the Daily Mail, newspapers in the state. Like everyone knows her face. And now she's going to face extradition, so mission accomplished. And, you know, I'm helping tons of other people prosecute their con artists and giving them the courage to come forward because, Jesus, you got to step up and say something and stop them from scamming other people.

Now, I believe that and you believe that. And this touches on a broader subject than just white collar crime as well. This covers anything at all. I mean, anyone listening to this who's seen something that's not okay, who's seen someone breaking the law or otherwise just doing something that's not okay, I mean, you fill in the blank. It doesn't matter if you see that, what do you do? I grew up in a family where, you know, conflict avoidance, right? Let's not make a scene, just let it go type of attitude. And the world works in mysterious ways and karma will come around and turn the other cheek, but then these people just get away with it. And at what point is enough, enough, right? At what point is, is it our responsibility to stand up and say no and be the person who stops the cycle? Maybe the world does work in mysterious ways and brought this criminal in front of my face because I'm the one that's meant to do something about it. But the way I was brought up was very conflict avoidance. You know, don't do that. Don't disturb the waters. You know, let it go, right? Forget and forgive and move on. And that's just how it goes. But then that can sometimes lead to people like your person and my bookkeeper who use that attitude that a lot of people hold, like I used to, to just keep on hurting people, to keep on stealing, to keep getting away with things over and over and over and never get caught. And Jonathan, I remember reading something on your website. What were the words exactly? You said, evil wins when.

Yeah, evil only triumphs when good people do nothing.

Right? And if you remember the movie A Few Good Men, the two guys in that movie, they were soldiers and they were being convicted of a crime, but they technically didn't break the law. And that was the whole subject of the movie. If they didn't technically break the law, then should they be charged? And the answer, of course, spoiler alert to the movie is that yeah, they didn't do the right thing. Regardless of what the rulebook said, when you and I see something, when Anyone listening to this right now sees something that's not okay, we then have the responsibility at this point. In my opinion, the onus is on us, the hot potatoes at this point in our hands to do something about it. Otherwise, evil wins. And at my home, when I was talking about this stuff with my family, my family was encouraging me to not take that stand, to just forgive and forget, let it go, move on, and not take on the burden of that responsibility. And I also had a business coach at the time, he's a really good friend of mine, and he said. He got really angry, actually, and he said, no. He said, you need to stop this woman. He's talking to me so that she doesn't go and rob your neighbor or your family or your friends. And even if I don't know who she's going to rob next, she does need to be stopped. And I have the power to do it. Therefore, I hold the responsibility to a degree for the next crime that might be committed. So to people listening to this right now who have witnessed something, that's not okay, or you do have the power to step up, you do have a choice. You can help stop this. You can stop harm from happening to other people. Now, I'm not saying put yourself in harm's way. I'm not saying be a crazy hero and go crazy here. I'm not saying to put yourself or your family in danger. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that you have the power to do something about it. You can ignore it or you can do something. And I challenge you to think about it. What could you do as a step towards preventing this from happening to anyone else? What could you do to help make sure justice is served and bad people are stopped? Sorry, John, I got a little animated there. It's a really passionate subject for me.

I agree 1,000%. And that's, I think, why the world is in the state it is currently in. There are not enough people standing up and saying, no, this is wrong. We can't have this. This is not right. Because it's hard to do the right thing. It's hard to be the one to stand up and try to stop stuff and report stuff. You know, it's easy to look the other way and pretend it's not happening. But, you know, nine out of 10 times when you're faced with the decision that the hard choice is the right choice. And I'm glad I stood up and brought my con artist to justice, and I'm glad it's inspiring other People to stand up, because what else are we here for? Like, when I was younger, I didn't really believe in the ideals of, like, good versus evil. I thought life was gray. But now I'm 45 and I've been through a lot of stuff, including this, and I don't think life is that terribly gray. I do think there are good people and there are evil people, like my con artist and your bookkeeper. I think they're evil people. If you can go and just rob people with lies and innuendo and carry on as if that's no big deal and not care about the wake of misery, you're leaving, you're an evil person. You don't have the capacity to care about other human beings. And this is going to sound crazy, but I'm not saying put them to death, but I believe, like, life imprisonment, they shouldn't be mixing with regular people because they're only going to hurt people. And I guarantee when my con artist gets out of jail, she's only going to hurt more people. That's all she knows how to do. That's all she's demonstrated she can do.

And we hope that people who are able to heal themselves, like Frank Abengale, for example, we do hope that those people are going to turn themselves around. And there are programs to help people to make life changes, to start owning up to their past and make corrective behaviors. But not all people are like that or interested. And at the end of the day, it's not up to me to give her that chance. She's ruined her chance. And she had many opportunities over several months to make that different decision right now. I caught another one of my guys way back then who was stealing and doing unauthorized transactions on his company credit card. And I did catch him and confronted him and I was pissed. And you know what? He was really embarrassed and he apologized profusely and begged that I wouldn't fire him and all that. And I didn't. I kept him on and he never did it again. But that's different. See this girl, she did it for months and months and months for large transaction amounts. And that's very different. She blew her opportunity.

If I were you, I would start a blog with her picture and name and your story about what happened to you and just leave that on like one of those free platforms like blogger.com or WordPress or whatever. Anyone searching her name, that could be a cautionary tale, like, oh, she's a scammer. Avoid her.

That's a good point. I never thought of that? Yeah, yeah.

I mean, that would help. I was approached today on LinkedIn by a guy who's offering branding for a show I'm working on. And I decided, huh, let me just Google this guy's name and see what comes up. And sure enough, a dozen different people had written on this RipoffReport.com website complained about him, that he's a scammer. So I was so grateful to them for at least logging onto some website and writing up a report about how he scammed them so I could avoid him. So if I were you. But again, lawyers will tell you, well, she can sue you. And I'm like, she really can't. All you're doing is telling your story. This is what happened to me. We're living in a free country. You're allowed to tell a story of what happened to you. You employ this woman, she stole this money, you fired her. You can say, that's not slander or libel, it's the truth. That is the only defense for slander or libel. The truth. So you can write the truth to your account. You know, it's totally legal.

And now, as soon as we come back from this short break, Jonathan, and we're going to be wrapping up soon. Before that happens, though, I have a few specific questions for you. The first is, how can I help? Of course. And the second is what kind of advice would you give to yourself if you were to go back while in the middle of all this as it's happening? And I have a couple crazy statistics I googled before you came on the show. That and more as soon as we come back from this short break from rock Bottom to rockin. It is a show designed for everyone, so please help me get there. Please share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. If you've seen a white collar crime or you know someone who's going through it, share with them this story so that they know they're not alone and they can see that there's light at the end of the tunnel. You can also check out Jonathan's website for more details. All the little fine nitty gritty details that we can't really cover in the time that we have here for this show. Check him out@jonathanwalton.com. that's J-O-H N A T H A N W A L T O n dot com. There's a link on the show notes to this episode. Check out his website. You can read about how he's sharing this and what he's trying to do. He's trying to do awareness and bring to the table that it's not okay for people to go do this, that they will get caught and that you have the power and the strength to stop evil from spreading as well. Remember that evil only wins when good people do nothing. I'm not saying go and do something drastic. Don't get yourself in trouble, but do something. Figure out what you can do to help bring justice wherever you can, wherever you go. Thank you for listening to the show. And now back to the interview with Jonathan. And we're back now here on from rock bottom, the Rockin it with Jonathan Walton. Remember, if you're listening, please share this episode with someone who you think would benefit from hearing it. Please also give us a five star rating and subscribe to the channel on whatever device you're listening from. It means a huge deal to me. It's the only thing I ask of you. Please, good rating. Share it with a friend. Subscribe to the channel now. Jonathan, just before we went on break, I was asking about three things and one of them was a Google statistic that I had I was going to share with you once we came back. And that statistic that I googled before you came on the show was that apparently white collar crime, similar to what you and I both experienced makes up more than 400 billion. That's B with a B $400 billion of losses every single year just in the United States. Now I didn't know that. Did you know that?

No. That's a lot of money and you know, relegated so it's not prosecuted as or at all.

This sneaks out of the system and apparently the average business and most of this money is caused by theft on the executive level. The executives are respons apparently for 16 times the total sum of theft that comes from employees. So you would think that from having a boardroom meeting with my directors and my trusted executives that that would be a more safe environment than people that are further down the organizational chart. Right. I remember sitting there and all of us talking about, oh, it's the employees we have to be worried about, when in reality it's the opposite. And maybe it's a byproduct of executives in power having more access and control and influence to, you know, the resources they need to access. That's just a theory of mine anyways. And apparently it turns into about 6% of the annual revenue of every single business, whether known or not known, ends up disappearing due to white collar crime from employees at various levels. I had no idea about that until I googled it, I knew it existed, but I didn't know it was that much.

Yeah. You know, and because it's not a violent crime, it's not prosecuted strenuously or vigorously. And that's the problem. I mean, you know, physical violence, you know, it's almost like a. It's like an emotional violence because if. If you're that person who someone just stole that money from, it's devastating to you. And how do you quantify that? It's not physically violent, but, you know, it's devastating nonetheless. So I wish. I wish it was taken more seriously.

And again, people listening right now who have witnessed something, whether it's crime or white collar theft or whatever, and you didn't speak up. I don't want you to feel guilty right now. I don't want you to feel ashamed.

I do want you to feel guilty right now. You should.

Okay. I want you to take action. Right? I want these people to do something about it. That's what I care about right now. Just do something.

Now you witness someone being hurt, Jesus, go to police. You got to say something.

And the best time to do it would have been when it happened a long time ago. But the second best time, because we can't change the past. But right now, you do have a choice. And the second best time to take action is right now, today, right after you're done listening to this episode. Right? Crime is not okay. And you do have control and you have the influence and ability to stop it. Maybe not back then, but now moving forward, you do. Every individual out there has so much more power and strength and influence in your own hands than you realize or that you believe, and I'm here to say you do have that power and that influence. So if you don't have the confidence that you don't believe in yourself that you do, just borrow some of mine. I'm telling you, you do have that influence. You can make a huge difference. Everyone listening to the show right now has that ability to positively impact people around us and to prevent harm from being done again. Now, don't go attack that person. Right? Don't break the law, but contact the authorities, be persistent, figure out a way to make a difference and do good around you by stopping bad things from being done. So, Jonathan, going back, going way back in the middle of all this chaos that was going on in your life, if you were to go now back in time to then and be able to give yourself some advice, what would it be? Would you be mad at yourself and say, wake up and slap yourself, or would you maybe give yourself a hug and sympathize that this is just an unfortunate thing to a good person that's happening? What would you say to yourself?

You know, at the end of the day, I'm grateful this happened to me because I'm a different person now than I was before, and I like the person I am now, and I wouldn't change that for the world. So, you know, when it happened to me, my husband and all my friends and family told me to let it go, that I have to let it go. I have to get on with my life. I have to make peace with it. I'm never getting the money back. Just let it go. But there was just a voice inside me. I just couldn't let it go. And I just kept pulling at this thread and pulling at this thread and unraveling the story and all these other victims, and I, you know, and now I'm on the precipice of hopefully selling a true crime doc series about this, and I'm writing a book about it. I'm making this whole other career about helping other people who've been conned and bringing attention to this life that people lead of conning other people. And here's the thing, and I wrote about this in my Huffington Post article. I said that in the same way that silver bullets kill werewolves and wooden stakes kill vampires, publicity kills con artists. They can't function once the light of publicity shines on them. So I would encourage you to start a blog about that woman who scammed you, your accountant. I would encourage anyone to start a website or a blog if they were scammed, start telling people about it, let their name come up in a search so another potential victim can search and find and avoid getting scammed. You know, so if I could talk to myself back then, I mean, I subscribe to three different criminal background check sites now. So I background check everyone. I background checked you before I came on this podcast.

I was wondering. I was assuming. Yeah, you did when you said it, but I wasn't sure. So there, you answered my question.

I do. Yeah. I couldn't find any criminal stuff on you, so I agreed to come on. But if I was the same person back then, the minute Mayor Smith came into my life, a simple background check would have revealed a trail of felonies for fraud and grand theft in Florida and Tennessee. I would have kept my distance, much less I wouldn't have given her money. And who does that? But I do now, you know, and People, now you're crazy. I'm like, yeah, I'd rather be crazy and rich than, you know, sane and broke and trusting. Like, you know, you can't be. You can't be. Trust but verify is my motto.

That is a great way. I agree with that. And you're a living example of someone who saw something bad. You didn't let it keep you down. You stood back up. Not only did you triumph over bad, but you've also been able to turn it into something productive. You got this documentary coming out. I hope that you do share it with me and with all the listeners here. I will happily share the URL to it on the show notes of this episode as soon as it does go live. Now, how could people help you out or reach out and contact you? And what would you like to say to anyone listening right now?

Yeah. For updates. You know, my case is always changing and I'm finding new cons. My website, Jonathan Walton.com, j O H N a T H a N Weird spelling of Jonathan.

I'll put a link in the show notes as well. Yeah.

I'll keep you abreast of the book and the documentary series and hopefully the movie people are talking about. Yeah, it might lead to, you know, I may end up making a ton of money off of this. So that initial 100 grand was just like an investment, I guess.

Yeah. Perspective and choice, right? You chose to turn it into something. And in a parting note here, I have just one final question for you. This subject of. And I don't remember who originated this quote, but it goes something like this. It goes, no one wins in a fight, not even the winner. What do you think about that? And the context is that good people don't go out and fight battles. Good people don't have any reason or motivation to go and fight battles, start a war because they're good people. And if everyone's a good person, then there's no reason to fight. Good people only strike after they get attacked. Good people are only incentivized by self defense. Thus, the battle only exists because of the bad person. And by being on the defensive, then we can conclude that there's nothing to gain from the good person by going to battle. There is nothing to gain to start with. And that's why there was no battle to start with. But when a bad person starts the battle, then there's nothing for the good person to gain. They have to expend resources to defend themselves. So even when they win, they lose.

No, listen, I got chills when you said that quote, it's so true. Because while I'm an optimist and I like to point out the sunny side of things and the advantages I have because of going through this experience, because there are many. No, it's taken a toll on me. I'm not the same. It's taken a toll on my relationships with people. People, you know. Yeah, I'm not the same person. It scarred me for sure. And I was. I was, you know, more whole before. But, you know, we all have battle wounds and battle damage, and that's part of living on this planet. And, you know, we. If the purpose is to grow and learn from it, then I've done that. But, yeah, I'm definitely not the same person I was and I never will be. And that's fine. Is it ideal? No. I mean, I'd like to be this blissfully happy, never hurt person. Sure. But in spite of everything, I have triumphed. And I gotta tell you, two years of pursuing this and private investigators and in court hearings and whatever, the day the jury came back with a guilty verdict and they put cuffs on her and led her away to jail, that was such a profoundly healing and therapeutic moment that, you know, I felt like a giant weight lifted off my life that I could finally breathe and move on, you know, so it's worth it. It's worth pursuing your enemy and bringing him to justice. It's worth. The fight is worth it and the triumph is worth it. But no, it leaves a mark. You don't, you know, it's not a win win. There's. There's a lot of losing, you know, in the interim, for sure.

I'm glad that you have this courage and I'm very grateful that you have the strength and the courage to share everything on the documentary on your website and here on the show right now. Jonathan, thank you very much for joining us here today on From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. I really appreciate your time.

Eric, it was a pleasure. Thank you so much. Good luck with the podcast. I'm excited. It's a great, it's a great thing you stumbled upon. I wish you every success in the world.

Thank you. And to everyone listening, you guys have the power to change the course of your lives today by each choice that you make in this moment.

Right.

We can't control what happened then, but we do control the what happens next. And that's it, my friends, for this episode. We will see you next time. Please send me an email, say hello, give me some feedback, let me know what you think. Give me some tips and suggestions. I'd love to hear from you. Also, please share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, doesn't matter. Just get it out there. I really appreciate it. And we'll see you next time on From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. Have a rockin it day.

Sam.