26: Racism, Hollywood Movie Star, and Entrepreneurship // The Story of Tommy Chong

You do what you have to do. You're only here to learn. And what's happening when you're on the rock bottom, that's your learning space. You know, when you're in the moment, it's hard to be unhappy. You're only unhappy when you're living in the future with your mind. You're thinking of all the terrible things that could happen to you, or you're living in the past in your mind, or you're thinking of all the things that did happen to you. But when you're in the present, it's impossible to be sad or unhappy when you're totally in the present. Even if you have terminal cancer, whatever is going on when you're in the present, you're in the present. What you got to do, you have to accept your karma. And that's your secret sauce for happiness, is that you're always in the middle. You're not the worst off. There's always someone lower than you. And no matter where you are. And if certain things you know don't pan out for you, in other words, they did pan out for you, because they didn't pan out for you. That meant, okay, they did pan out. You weren't supposed to be there. You were supposed to go somewhere else. So the I am is the holy word of God, which is I am, you are, we are. And our only job in this universe is to help others. Not only help someone, but let others help you.

Welcome to From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. I'm your host, Eric Gilbert Williams, and this is the podcast where we explore personal stories of people who hit absolute rock bottom, then got back up, wiped off the dust, kick, kicked failure to the curb, and now they're rocking it like you'd never believe if you didn't hear it. Live right here, we cover subjects in business, sports, and life in general. If you like this podcast, please share it. These interviews are intended to inspire, to motivate, to give hope and vision. So please share this episode with someone who needs it. Use your Instagram Account, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn. Hand signals. Trained pigeon sent smoke signals up in the air. Use Morse code, whatever you like. Just share the love and share this episode. Also, email me anytime. Podcasterrickgilbertwilliams.com Send me questions you would like to have asked of future guests and I will incorporate them. Or just send me some suggestions on how to run a better podcast. Or just say, hello, I'd love to hear from you. That's podcasterricgilbertwilliams.com I know you're going to love today's interview, so let's get started with us here today on From Rock Bottom to Rockin, it is none other than the living legend himself, Mr. Thomas Chong. Now in the off chance that someone listening here has been maybe living under a rock for 40 years or otherwise just isn't familiar with his work, you might recognize his name from the Hollywood blockbuster films Cheech and Chong from the early 80s, which were in my opinion, and I think factually they were pioneering films and influential in the legalization of marijuana process. If not from the movies, then maybe you heard one of his multiple albums that he wrote, sang or played guitar in, or met him at his old nightclub in Vancouver. Or maybe you saw him perform stand up comedy in a packed venue. He was also Leo in that 70s show and Urza in the movie the Colorado Space with Nicolas cage. And his YouTube video of dancing with the Stars was awesome. Definitely. Check it out. Just sit back and check that one out. Tommy, welcome to the show. How you doing, man?

I'm doing great, man. I'm in my element. House arrest with a beautiful woman that loves to cook. So I'm in heaven.

House arrest in a moment of social distancing. Almost sounds ironic in a way.

Well, I'm at that age where social distancing, whether I want it or not.

Yeah, it's crazy times.

I'm at that age now where I can't do sex jokes anymore because I do sex jokes and I look like an old pervert.

I think it's just a different type of sex joke. I think there's a whole market for that.

No sex jokes.

That's it. Zero. Well, I appreciate you having on here.

Yeah, well, thank you. I had a little session with the oldest guy on television now, Larry King. Larry King, Yeah, I was with Larry King and I said to Larry, I says, how's your sex life? And he goes, non existent. I said, what? He says, yeah, but there's the upside. I said, what's the upside? He says, you don't get jealous? Okay, good for Larry.

Silver linings.

Yeah.

The pleasure actually this weekend of introducing some of my roommates here and friends to Tuchun Chong for the first time. I had no idea. I didn't realize that some people haven't seen the movies yet. It's crazy.

So, yeah, there's a whole group of generation, generation that missed him. But that's okay. It's fun to catch up.

Yeah, they all come around and the name stays in history. And this show is about obviously it's called From Rock Bottom to Rockin it. And it's a passion project that I have been doing for a while. And the idea is to talk about rock bottom stories and rockin it recoveries how going from that difficult moment to being in a good place. And so there's all sorts of guests. I don't know if you've looked at some of the episodes, but we have. Some of it's rehabilitation, some of it's crime and rehabilitation. There's a lady born with no arms, and she got her pilot license with her toes. Just figuring out ways to do well in life. No matter what's going on, you do adapt.

I mean, that's the greatest thing about the human being. We're adaptable. Well, we came from the ocean and we learned how to fly. So come on, we could do anything. You just have to come to realize exactly who you are. That's the key. That's what I found out too. And it's tough finding out who you are until you've been somebody for a while. So it's a process, but it's. It's fun. I've come to grips with it. I figured it out. But the trouble is, when you figure it out, you got to keep it to yourself because you can't be a spoiler alert. You can't tell people how it's going to end because then it spoils a surprise for themselves. You know, sometimes even the initiative to get up and do something. So that's what I learned. As you get older, the one thing you have to learn is how to shut the f up.

You're talking about inner voices here. Inner dialogue. Is that what you mean?

Or no talking to people. The trouble that, with myself anyway, is that when I get any kind of knowledge, I want to share it. And you can't. First of all, people don't want. They're not interested to begin with. And then second of all, this is my rule, is that you don't give information unless you're asked for it. It's like giving directions, you know, you don't just walk up to strangers and say, oh, by the way, you want to know how to go to Malibu? And hear your turn right, turn left. You don't do that. If someone comes up and says, hey, how do I get to Malibu? Then you answer, but keeping all this knowledge to myself, it's a struggle, but I managed it.

So when I think back in my past life is filled with these beautiful moments of aha. There's so much to discover in this world. And when I think back, there's sometimes when I would discover this magical secret in my own mind, I would call it that. And then I would go and share it with everyone. Unsolicited.

Not a good idea.

No, it wouldn't have the same impact at all. And then in fact, you're intruding.

Spoiler alert. You know, they have to discover this stuff for themselves. It's tough. But if you look at all the gurus of the world, the one thing they all have in common is they giggle a lot. They all have that cosmic giggle. Tim Z. Leary had it. I knew Tim pretty well and he had that asset lab. And what it is, is that we've been there, we know, but we can't tell you. You have to find out for yourself. That's what the secret is.

And does the knowing ever stop? To me, it seems like an ongoing process.

There's a hobby I have. I forget what the Chinese name or Japanese name, but it's collecting rocks that look like certain things, you know, like mountain ranges. It's kind of like a bonsai plant, you know, bonsai, you know, where they. They take a full grown thing and make it miniature.

Yeah, I had a few bonsais. It's really meditative.

Yeah, but it's rocks that look like mountain ranges. You know, just one rock itself. And so the collectors, they take it and put it on a wood stand. You know, they carve it in and they put it in a prominent place in their house. Well, we're collecting rocks like that. And then you go to say a dry riverbed, there's millions of rocks. But you've got to know what you're looking for. That's the key. Because every rock has a story. But the one that you're looking for, is that so rare that it's one of a kind, basically. And I found out that the more knowledge you have about whatever you're doing, the easier it is for you to do it. But you have to learn yourself. That's the whole point about being human, this mind observation. The real world is called the spirit world. It's a spiritual world that there's no want, need or desire in the spiritual world. There's nothing physical, nothing can wear out. That's what the meaning really of eternity. Because there's. It's always now. There's no past and there's no future. The future is now. Everything is in the now. But we get born into the physical world because it's a physical world. It's finite, it's not infinite. There is a beginning, a middle, and an end to our stay on on Earth here. And the reason it's physical is so we can learn. Because in the spiritual world, there's nothing to learn. In the physical world, there's everything to learn. And that's why this is what I figured out that the human were born in. We're pure spirit and we've always been here, eternal. We're eternal spirits. But when you get born into the physical world to learn, and that's why you can come back, or you can be born into this world in a infinite number of ways, or spirit, like the animal world, for instance. You know, we're so connected to two animals because they really are us, only their particular time on Earth as a rabbit, a snake, a lion, an elephant, a human. All for experience.

First thing that pops up was when I think about the ancient Greek gods back in, say, 2000 BC, and there was this. Anyone that studied ancient Greek culture and mythology understands that one of the biggest issues with the gods back then and challenges was that they lived eternally and they didn't have. They were jealous of humans for their mortality and essentially jealous for their experience. There was a finite time and it changed the experience and the concept of what a moment was and what a day was and what an apple is. And there's a parallel here between what you're saying of the spiritual world. You don't learn out there, it's eternal, it never ends, versus having a finite physical experience in the world where you have this different perspective and this is what this living's about. So I love that you went there and now I'm fascinated to explore. You have this calm demeanor and this cohesion of thought and this just relaxed nature where you have had some challenges. And people that are listening, usually, often people that are listening to the show, either they've been in a rock bottom or they're in a rock bottom, or they're trying to just move forward and do something. I don't want to use the word better because that's not accurate. But they want positive change and they want to learn and get to the next step in their own lives, whatever that ends up being.

That's why the Buddhist thing, you know, you have to really respect people's karma. I had a lesson one time when we first moved to la, because the whole reason we moved to LA is because of the beaches, right?

It's a pretty good reason. Me too, by the way. I'm from Calgary too, by the way.

Oh, you're from Calgary.

We have so much in common that. Okay, I'm just throwing this out. It's going to take me five seconds, but listen to this. So I moved to Calgary. I went to Forest Lawn initially and I remember on your bio you said something about they lived in the dog patch. I don't know where that is, but sounds something near Forest Lawn.

It could have been.

I lived there for 12 years. I dropped out of high school when I was 16. Before they kicked me out as well. I also got arrested a couple times for marijuana related activities. Let's just call it that. And my host was rated as well. There was like 15 of them in this crazy weird situation that didn't make any sense. But it's a different story. I mean it did make sense, but it was weird. Yeah, I actually sold custom handmade painted pipes. I didn't do bongs, but I made these painted pipes which was a lot of fun. And loved salsa dancing. Performed and competed all across North America. Absolutely loved it. So much fun. And I suck at guitar, but I love to play it. So anyways, I had to slip it in when I was reading and learning. And I watched your documentary yesterday as well in 2006. Anyone that's not seen the documentary, aka Tommy Chong, I recommend you check it out. It's very, very well done. And yeah, so I watched it yesterday and the more I learned about it, I was like, shit. There's some parallels big time.

Yeah, I got a tattoo from. I had no idea because you know how Calgary, you grew up there, you don't know that any different. But Calgary was one of the most racist in North America. And I'm here, I am half Chinese and a little bit native and then the rest white in the middle of Calgary where we were the black guys, my brother and I, you know, in Calgary, I was so lucky early in my life. In fact, I worked in a toy store in Calgary because I dropped out of high school when I hit grade 10.

Yeah, me too.

I bit up more than I could chew because I had terrible early schooling and you know, school to me I was just reading literature. That's all I ever did. I just read my literature books, the ones they told you don't read it now because we're going to discuss it. But I. That's all I did. But anyway, I dropped out of school when I was 16. As soon as I could, I worked at a toy store. Oh yeah, it was, it was great. I got a dollar 25 an hour.

Awesome.

That was my wage. Calgary is something else, man. Because you talk about nothing. You know what you say. From rights to riches. We were poor. My dad was very artistic. He didn't know it, but he was very artistic. Very Chinese, short, five foot three. My mother was very gorgeous, five foot eight. And then she got tb and so she. They cut out a lung instead of giving her the right medicine. She was like native, so they cut out a lung. She was in a sanitarium for the first four or five years of my life. And so I never. I never had a mum to hug her. And then I was in the home and everything else. But what I did learn, especially the Salvation army home, you had to sing hymns and you had to do all the Jesus work, you know, before you did anything there. It was very militant. By the way, Salvation army, they had a religious show called Onward Christian Soldiers. Marching on to War. I remember that song. It was one of my favorite. What I learned real early. And this is what got me where I am today. I went to Sunday school because that was the only entertainment we had. There was no movies, there was no television. There was a radio, which I kept, but one station. It was great though. It was. You know, growing up, I loved everything about my early life. But what I did, what got me even to this point now, is that I was young enough that when I went to Sunday school and I was like a little adult, you know how you are. You're not mothered to death and you're not fathered to death. You go to school, you know, my mom was too, you know, my dad never drove me to school or anything like that, ever. You found your way to school, you found your way home. And we had to chop wood, floor the wood stove that kept us alive all winter. There was no frills. But what I found out, going to Sunday school, I found out about God. And the teacher would say, there are God's everywhere. And so walking home from the church, which was a mile across the field, I was walking and I'm thinking in my head, you know, about God. God is everywhere. And I'm looking around to see if God's walking with me. You know, there's a song, Closer Walk With Thee, you know, about God. And kind of looking. I was with some friends and we're walking together. And then in my mind I thought, well, God, where are you? And for some reason I looked up at the night sky and it was the clearest that I can ever remember. And the Milky Way and the stars and that were like just so close. So just hanging there because there's no, no street lights, nothing out there. Just Calgary and a clear sky like a winter night. And so when I said, where is God? Something made me look up and I saw the heavens. It didn't connect at the time. That didn't connect. It wasn't till years, many, many years later and many spiritual books later that I realized what had happened to me. And so what I learned, this is the lesson I learned, is that the Bible tells you seek and you shall find. In other words, you look and you will find. But you got to know what you're looking for, right?

Is that intention that sets the vibration out.

You got to know what you're looking for. Like if you lose your phone, you got to remember that it's your phone that you lost, you know, because if you're a stoner like me, you'll forget what you're looking for. But when I found God, and it's just in my mind and then I went to Bible and there again looking for God. And when you're looking for God, all these forces, because that's why we're here, this is the only reason we're here, is to know why you're here and to know that you are eternal beings. We are eternal beings. We've always been here, the spirit. And every time you come and go, it's to gain more knowledge, to gain more, more. And it's not always good. It's sometimes you gotta go down that deep, deep, deep thing to know. You've got to be in the dark to know what light is really about, to really appreciate light.

I had that conversation with my dad word for word almost, when I came back from being arrested a couple times because I'd run away for a couple years and gotten a lot of trouble and came back and I was talking to my biological dad and he's asking me, why'd you do all this? And it wasn't conscientious at the time, but my automatic response was, I had to know. I had to know. What was that? You know, I didn't know. I don't want to live my life ignorant and I didn't mean to cause. It wasn't the intention to cause harm or to get in trouble. That wasn't the intention or the vibration. It happened, but it was just curiosity. I wanted to experience life and know what was going on around me. And those lessons that came out of those two years of, you know, running away and getting in a lot of trouble were. They've made me who I am. I mean, who would I be? Thank you for checking out my podcast From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. I would love to ask you a question. I would love your feedback, please, on this book that I'm writing right now called the Standing Spot. It's about my own personal journey through some of my most difficult times as a kid. Dealing with peer pressure and bullying, gangs, violence, drugs and being arrested and my recovery out of it before even figuring out what my real time business was going to be. This was. This is just a story of a child who struggled and survived and it's my story and I'd love to get your feedback please. I have the intro and prologue available for download right now on my website. Just check out standingspot.com just standingspot.com will direct you exactly to the free section that you can download the intro and the prologue. And please send me an email. Just let me know what you think. I'm trying to figure out if you think this is resonating with you or if there's some tips or suggestions you have in the writing or the storyline flow. You know, I'm a new author and of course I'm doing this show because I like it and I love it and I want to share and help people and that's the coolest concept of the book as well. So please check it out@standingspot.com and send me a little email. Tell me what you think. It's free and I'd really appreciate your help. So thank you for that. And now back to this powerful interview.

The best schooling in the world, starting from there. That's why now you know, I respect everybody's reason why they're here and it doesn't matter what what or what they're doing or the weirdest thing I found. Not weird, but it's sort of ironic in a way. The strongest and the happiest people I knew had nothing. When I mean nothing. Like we. The house we grew up in was a little bungalow and it had a wood stove. It was well built. It had two bedrooms and a kind of a little living room. But living room slash kitchen.

Sounds like forest lawn.

Exactly. House that my dad built. A beautiful outhouse. Really nice. Very, very nice. I got pictures hanging in my house, the earliest house that we were in. But that house, oh man, it was so. Oh, we had the best Christmases. I'll never forget the Christmas because we had nothing. We got oranges for present, Japanese oranges in our stocking. My mom would fill up our stocking with oranges and nuts and candy and all sorts of little goodies you know, no toys. Maybe a little Pez dispenser as a toy. But if you had nothing, you don't know what you're missing. You don't know what you're lacking. And then I started carving early in my life, you know, sitting beside the thing, whittling with a knife. And we made our own toys. I made my own toy. The point of my story was as poor as we were one day. And I can remember this guy who had a horse and wagon. He had two horses, a team of horses and a wagon, which he used to help dig up shallow basements with his horses. And that was his job. His name was Ralph Rider. Never forget. And his wagon broke down just outside our house. Our house. And so he fixed it, but then while he was fixing it, they had to stay there. So they did a little lean to, little tarp against the wagon. He lived there for seven years in that little. No outhouse. It was homeless shelter. That's exactly what it was. But he had horses. He had his two horses. They would go in the field and eat. Not like, you know, the. The Malibu horses or anything else. And while he was there, he had something like five kids. He had one every year while he was there, living in that little homeless shelter. And so as poor as we were, there was always somebody poor.

It's all relative, right?

That's when I found out about life, man. And I found out early. I mean, we were snug in our little house with our little wood stove. But then I had friends. In fact, when I went to Bible camp, was the first time that I really got to use an indoor toilet with a flush toilet. Up until then, no, I've had a magical, so magical life. And what it was, it was because I got turned on to God early. And that's why I'm here today. And I never had that, you know, you gotta do this, you gotta do that. None of that. I gotta find out, I gotta try this and I gotta try that. Never. Not what you can't do, but you want to try it all. And I did.

I gotta ask. So I'm drawing a line here. Here's a little short story and a question. When I was little, I grew up in Kitchener, Ontario, originally, before moving to Calgary. I was never exposed to racism in any shape or form. When I was four years old, my mom was best friends with this lady who had adopted a child and she was black as night. And we were best friends from ages 4 until 12. And today we don't talk that much anymore. But it doesn't matter. If she needed anything, I'd be there, right?

Yeah.

And that was normal to me. We were just best friends forever. First girl I ever kissed, right. 12 years old, don't know what the hell's going on. But we were just really close friends. And one day she asked me to wear this button. She wanted me to wear this button that said stop racism. And I said, whatever you want me to do, sure, I'll wear the button. And so I wore two or three actually. But I didn't understand what the button meant. I didn't know what it was. I didn't understand what racism was because I'd never seen it. And now that I've moved to the United States, I'm out in California right now and just out in Cupertino, so north of you, I suppose. And I'm seeing the Black Lives Matter movement. I'm seeing the riots and I'm seeing what happened and what's happening in Portland. And this is new to me. To me before now, this was always just in the movies. It didn't exist. And so there's two things that come out of that. One is when we're talking about spirituality, we're talking about how we're all connected and how we're all each other. We're all connected in this other plane and this physical life is short and we're talking about God. To me, I resonate mostly on the Holy Trinity with the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, because to me the Holy Spirit connects with this spirituality concept. And if we look at this taking a step back, if we look at all right, we're all the same, we're all connected. When someone performs an act of racism, they're not hurting the other person. I mean they are, but they're hurting themselves at the same time. It's just a destructive force. There's no good at all that comes from it. Yet millions of people still behave or act or speak from a place of hate speech, of racism.

It's ignorance. Racism is just a mixture of ignorance mixed with fear. Mostly ignorance. Ignorance and fear. We grew up in Calgary and I started the first black band. We were called the Shades because my partner was a full blood Sarsi native from Calgary. Dick Byrd. We met in army cadets. And then I met Tommy Milton, the great football player in Calgary. He was going to be a pro but he hurt his knee and he was descended from slaves from Texas. They settled north of Edmonton and the reason they settled north of Edmonton is that Edmonton would not let him settle in Edmonton. They had to go out of town to, you know, because that was the racism. It was a law. It was apartheid, was the law of the land. And that's what you're talking about when you're talking about the different laws, you know, that you got in trouble, same as me. I'm doing what I know is spiritually correct. And sometimes it goes like all the gay laws that they had in the most gay spot. England is the gayest country on earth and they had laws against buggery, against sodomy, all these puritanical laws. Here we go. England. I mean, they were the ones that came up with that cabin boy.

Look at Alan. What was his name? Alan Turian, the broke enigma. Forget his name. Just a tragedy, right? One of the most brilliant minds and prosecuted for being gay, for being normal, for being himself. It's insane.

Yeah, you go to jail, you. All these things, weird things, you know, the penal. That's why America exists today, is because England was so harsh. They just wanted taxes. They wanted. You know, they want law and order, and you can't do this. And slavery, you know. But see, we're all learning. We're here to learn. We're here to learn what it's like to be a racist. When I was in. When I started, my first black girlfriend, she was a dancer too, you know, Lindy Hop, who's jive at the time. And she was the best. And we entered contest and we won because she was such a good dancer and I could hold my own. So I brought her home one time. And first time I brought my first black girlfriend home, and my dad, who was Chinese, pulled me in the kitchen and he goes, son, she's black, as.

If you didn't know.

I said, pop, you're Chinese.

One thing that's striking me right now, and again, a lot of people listening to this are going through their own challenges and trying to heal. And when I hear you speaking, when we're talking, I don't feel pain. From when you were having a difficult time of racism when you were a younger boy, when you were a child growing up. And is this because you fully healed and moved on or found some peace? There's people that are looking for this kind of peace. I mean, look at everywhere in the United States and all the hate crime that's happening. There's so many people that are looking for their own inner peace to be able to live a normal life regardless of the bad stuff that's happened to them.

The peace is that I've come to realize that they're racist for a reason. They're here to learn and you have to respect that. That's why they're ignorant. You know, the judge that sentenced me in Calgary, I got caught joy riding. You know, it's a. It's a Canadian crime. Did you ever get involved? A friend of mine stole the car and it conked out on him near my house. And so he called me and I went to help him with the car to get it started. Cops pull up, we run and they follow our footprints home. And then they asked, they knew who it was and so we ended up in jail. So we got went before a judge and he gave us $100 fine for joyriding. About that time I had sort of like a socialist sort of attitude. Like the reason we were stealing cars or joy riding is that there was no activity for teenagers in Calgary. None.

Yeah, it was a very different Calgary than I grew up or experienced.

So one day, I don't know why, but I was by the courthouse and so I walked in, I wanted to talk to the judge and for some crazy reason I ended up in his courtroom and talking to him. And I asked him, you know, what should be done? He says, if you want anything done, you got to do it yourself. He said, there's, you know, if you want change, you have to make the change yourself. And I remember that. Then he says, by the way, were you ever in front of me, you know, I said, yes, I was. I thought I recognized you. I was like, get the hell out of here. So what I did when we formed a band together, I had another friend that whose dad ran the Boys club of Calgary. And so I got this idea. He said, well, I can help you. We'll form a team that Shades teen club. And so we had the downtown legion on 9th Avenue. I think it is the 8th or 9th. So big legion, Legion dancehall. Big beautiful dance hall, piano, everything. It was nice stage. We got that sucker. Every Saturday night for almost a year. We packed that sucker. Oh man, we had kids coming from Edmonton everywhere just because we were a hot rock and roll band with a dance venue. Now the only problem was because there was shit all to do in Calgary after the dance. And they made us quit because Saturday night they made us quit like midnight as far as you go because you want to mess with Sunday in Canada. And so from the dancers from 9 to 12 and after 12, there's all these kids with nothing to do. And so they would go to some poor girl babysitting and be a party and they would trash that House or there was because they were a home for the most part, just badass hoodlums. And so the mayor and the chief of police of Calgary called us in for a meeting. I thought they were going to give us some sort of an award for having such a cool thing for teenagers to do. And instead they said, we thought it would be a good idea if you guys left town for Christmas.

Oh, really?

Just like that, they kicked us out of Calgary. They kicked us out. And it was good because, you know, we're ready to go anywhere. Let's go to Vancouver. Okay.

In the nature of the show, I have to ask. I mean, you've had such an eclectic and influential career. It's fascinating to see and to learn more about. There's always more I'm learning. I mean, you were arrested in 2003 and I heard about that and. And of course that was at such a huge event on a lot of levels and teach and Chong movie. What was your rock bottom moment of all this? What was it and how did you.

Get out of that rock bottom? Probably. I've had so many raised in Calgary. First of all, the reason my parents went to or my dad ended up in Calgary is that there was always work.

That's what brought me there.

Yeah, there's always work in Calgary. You know, there's always something to do. There's always somebody that needs somebody. Whereas you come down to California, you know, that's why there's so many homeless here, because the weather's so nice. You don't need to work, you just need a place to sleep. Basically.

Yeah. They don't understand winter. Winter's different up there.

There's fruit trees. Fruit trees, man. When I saw my first fruit tree in, I was so amazed. Seeing crab apples growing on trees. My rock bottom moment. God, I've had so many. Being in the hospital when I was 4 years old, that was a rock bottom. Being in the Salvation army home, that was rock bottom. I mean, it's always near me home. When my dad took me because my mother was in the hospital, my dad was. He was Chinese and he was living down in Chinatown. And he wasn't the father type. He was like a gambler. And so we got stuck in the home. And when he took me to the home, he had my clothes piled up in a nice pile in my comic book collection. I had collected comic books when I was in the hospital.

Hope you kept them.

No, when I got to the home, that was the last time I saw the clothes and the comic books. Everything just donated to the rest of the cause. And that was the last time, really, that I was treated special, being in the hospital. Now I'm in the home. And when you went to breakfast, I was a little guy, so I never ate. All the good food was gone, whatever was left. And if you didn't stand up for yourself, you know, pull in the food. There was no one saying, oh, eat your. Eat your cereal or eat your toast. There was nobody there. It was just, okay, breakfast over. Okay, let's go here, let's go there. Rock bottom moment. I've had a few. Like when Cheech and I came to LA after we found out. Well, first of all, I got fired from Motown. That was one of the rock bottom moments.

Going for your green card?

Yeah, yeah, hit a green card, got fired. Okay. Again. And it was like. It wasn't. The door closed, another door opened. Like, getting kicked out of Calgary, like, okay, getting kicked out of Detroit, Basically what it was. I got enough money off Barry Gordy to set me up and, well, to buy a scooter, a little Honda 90. Because I knew I couldn't afford a car, but I needed something to get around. So I bought a scooter because I see on television, I watched the Vietnamese would move their whole family on a little Honda 90.

Yeah. Five of them.

Yeah. So I had a family, and I have two families at this time because I had my. Now, why. She was my girlfriend with our baby. And then I had Maxine and Ray, daughter Robbie. But Maxine was working. That was another key thing to my success, was having a wife that worked. You know, that that's what enabled me to do what I did, to be in the band and do. Because she took care of the necessities of life. My first wife and my second wife, too, Michelle. Me too. Because when we went back to work in a nightclub, my own nightclub, I never got paid.

Life of an entrepreneur.

Yeah, but she did because she worked as a waitress and she made tons of money. That was another rock bottom, I guess, when Cheech and I came to make it as a comedian, comedians, I think that was a very telling rock bottom. Because we got into town and the whole idea was to do the clubs, get discovered and then become famous like we ultimately did. But when we got to la, this was Cheech's hometown, so Cheech disappeared for a weekend anyway, because he had homeboys that he had that he had hung out with. Well, friends for sure. And they were the kind of friends that they were like scammers. He could go to all the concerts they'd find a way to get in. They would do everything because they were the hierarchy of the universities or the schools that Cheech went to. So I had a call to Cheech, I said, listen, we got a gig, Red Fox Club. Red Fox was an old friend of mine. And so I phoned down there and yeah, come on down. And I had a really tough teach into coming back. And that was another rock bottom moment. Because we would go to gigs, never got paid. Every once in a while we'd get 25 bucks or a few bucks, but it was on the Honda 90 with all our costumes. We'd wear all our costumes and drive around the Honda 90, go in there, do our five minutes, 10 minute bit. And then we would found out about the Troubadour. And the Troubadour were, you know, it was a folk club. They had Hootenati night and Cheech and I performed there and we were so successful. Can you imagine? You get a whole night of folk singers and then you get a couple of guys that are doing cutting edge comedy. Oh, man. That's how we made it. That was our rock bottom moment. Here's what we had to do in order to be in a good spot on the Hootenanny night at the Troubadour. You had a lineup at the box office as early as nine in the morning and the box office opened at six and we would spend all day eating sunflower seeds and for all day in order to get the good spot at the Jupiter rock bottom moment. And we did that. I think we did it maybe five, six times, maybe even more. The thing that kept me see because I had a vision when I saw that Cheech and Chong were funny and was the first Chicano Chinese, half Chinese duo. And we were young and we were attractive enough that we weren't hard to look at. And we weren't funny because we're weird. We were funny because we were funny. And that was the rock bottom moment. But what kept us going was the faith making people laugh. When you make people laugh, there's nothing like it. That's why Trump is way. He's addicted to the crowds, you know, he's addicted to the power that he has where you could get on stage and say anything stupid. Everybody cheers. You know, like I said early in my life when I found out the power of prayer. See, this is very powerful. And then I explored it all, you know, especially when I was in jail. I studied up on Catholicism and Judaism, ended up with an Indian sweat lodge. That was my church When I was there, but it was always. And Cheech too, by the way. Cheech. When I met him, he was heavy into transcendental meditation and he would spend at least an hour a day in his transcendental meditation. Not so much now, but it's still there for him when he needs it. That was our connection. When you're told why you're here, the rest is easy because everything is a learning experience. Being homeless is a very, very powerful learning experience. And I've talked to people. Well, you probably have too. You know that. Especially these entrepreneurs. That's how they started out. One guy slept in his car, had a gym membership, and that's where he'd go shower and he had a suit and nice clothes and he'd go change and he'd go sell his wares. Next thing you know, now he's a multi billionaire. So in order to have anything, you must lose everything.

Thank you so much for sharing this show and spreading the love. Every time you click that share button or put it on your social media, it makes a big difference to those who listen to it, to the guests that I have on here as well, and to me personally. This is a passion project. And so all of your help, sending me feedback, sending me an email, clicking that contact me button on my website, all of that is amazing and it really touches my heart because when I was little and struggled, I dropped out of school, I got into drugs and violence. It was very difficult and I hit rock bottom. My own rock bottom in that context was when I was around 6, 17 years old and I thought I was going to jail. For a long time. I didn't know what was going to happen. And I got out because people reached out to me and helped me. People picked me back up and gave me motivation to move forward, just like you're hearing in these interviews. So this really is a passion project for me and I'd love it if you checked out my book as well. I tell my whole story on there. You can find it on my website, ericgilbertwilliams.com just click on my book. I would love for you to download a free copy of the intro and prologue. It's there right now anytime. There's an audio version as well. And now we're going to go back to the interview. Talk to you guys soon. I always think back to when I was 15 and I dropped out of school. I kind of ran away from home and I was doing a lot of drugs and getting in a lot of trouble. And I always think back there Was a moment where there was. I forget exactly. There was six or seven of us, whatever it was, living in this one room basement suite in Kitchener. And I say suite, but I probably shouldn't. It was just bare concrete walls with no paint or plaster or anything. And the ceiling, I remember, was five and a half feet tall. And I'm six foot one. And there was one spot in the middle of the room. There was one spot where there was the light bulb. And where that light bulb was, there was.

That's where you could stand up.

That was called the standing spot where we're joking about it. We would get all high and joke about whose turn it was to stand in the standing spot. So you don't kink your neck.

Right? Sure.

And I always think back to that. And I had a company fail a long time ago, and I ended up being a nighttime janitor and cleaning up slop and bars, and it was very difficult. And I always think back to those moments, and I think it got through those. And at the end of the day, specifically being the nighttime janitor and cleaning up the bar slop was. It was meditative in a certain way. And if that wasn't such a terrible experience, if I can detach from the I must have this or I must have that or poor me, or dealing with the overwhelm or anxiety that sometimes can trigger, if I can let go of all that and just come back to this place of, hey, a spiritual world, everything's just changed. Change is just change. It's not negative or positive. I mean, it can be. And I don't have control of what happened, but I do have control of what to do about it. And here I am. Am I going to make this a bad experience or a good one? And these are some of the things that keep me going and give me calm and peace. When there's a lot of turmoil and people listening to the show right now who are going through their own rock bottom moment, I'd like to ask you, Tommy, I mean, they're listening right now, right? Not right now, because we're recording. It's going to go live later. But when they listen, what would you say to them? Because some people don't recover from rock bottom. They get stuck there.

You do what you have to do. You're only here to learn. And what's happening when you're on the rock bottom, that's your learning space. When you're in the moment, it's hard to be unhappy. You're only unhappy when you're living in the Future with your mind, you're thinking of all the terrible things that could happen to you, or you're living in the past in your mind, or you're thinking of all the things that did happen to you. But when you're in the present, it's impossible to be sad or unhappy. When you're totally in the present, even if you have terminal cancer or even whatever is going on, when you're in the present, you're in the present. What you got to do, you have to accept your karma. What's always kept me going is the love of the people that I've been around. Cheech and I, entertaining people, making them laugh. It is such a spiritual moment because for a while there, you got people laughing. A friend of mine passed away a little while ago and he had worked for me and they wanted me to speak at his funeral. And I did. But what I did, it was like a comic bit. I had them all laughing so hard in the church images. Laughing, laughing, laughing. Because it's hard to be sad when you're laughing. And when you're laughing, you're in the moment. And when you're in the moment, that's not. You gotta be my formula for happiness. And I learned this from a few people. There's a great actor called Roy Daltres. He's gone now, but he was. He's an actor that every English actor in the world knew about, Roy Daltris. In fact, Cheech was the one that turned me on. He went to a play with Roy Daltries for the intermission. It was like a one man show. And he would take a nap on stage for the intermission. And people go out and get the drink, go to the bathroom, whatever they come back in, lights would go down and he'd wake up. And so Roy, Roy. I put him in the Corsican Brothers. He was the evil fouquet. And so we used to hang out at Roy's house, or he would come over to Cheech's rented house and he had all these great games, parlor games that he played. Well, Roy's early history was that during the war he joined up, right? He was from the Shetland Islands, off the coast of England. And so he was one of the first to get captured in the war. And he went to a prison camp. And so while I was in the. In the prison camp, they formed a theater group and they would put on plays just to keep from going crazy.

Yeah, keep busy. Yeah. Idle hands.

And so what he would do, him and Kay, every Christmas, they would go to the food banks and serve food for the. For the homeless. And that was his secret sauce, and that's your secret sauce for happiness, is that you're always in the middle. You're not the worst off. There's always someone lower than you. And no matter where you are, and if certain things, you know, don't pan out for you, in other words, they did pan out for you because they didn't pan out for you. That meant. Okay, they did pan out. You weren't supposed to be there, you were supposed to go somewhere else.

Yeah. You're supposed to be here instead. Yeah.

Yeah. And the thing is, you can't tell people not to be unhappy or, you know, just have a smile on your face. You can't tell. You can just make them smile. You can't tell them to smile, but you can make them smile. And you can't tell a kid what to do, but you can have him copy you. That's what my little puppy does. And my kids, too. I got a son, you know, that I joked one day and, you know, because he. Good musician. And I told him, you know, I said, I'm rich enough, you can become a jazz musician. Well, he took me up on it. Only trouble is that he got married, he met a woman. He was a Bikram teacher, hot yoga teacher, and he met. He fell in love with his boss, the lady that had the yoga studio, and they got married and they have a little son. Well, I'm basically supporting him, especially with the pandemic, you know, and my wife and my oldest son, you know, he, you know, they're always kind of. They were. Anyway, you know, the old tradition, you get a job, you know, that old. You got to stand on your own two feet. You got to. Yeah, you got to get a job, do that, do that. I'm not that way. I'm not that. He went to school. He got a degree in percussion music, a university degree. He's the only one in the. I take it back. My oldest daughter, or precious, our Shelby, Nay's daughter, she's also got a degree in Shakespeare in English and she's an actress, too. And so I don't mind supporting my son. And there's no strings attached to, you know, he's a musician, and he's a very good musician, and he's really good with his son, and he's teaching his son and his wife works. His wife's very brilliant. So the whole concept, what works for people, you know, doesn't work for everybody individually. We're all here to learn we're all here on our own path. And the more you respect that, the happier you'll be. And that's why even Trump, as bad as he is, I feel empathy for him because he was. Trump was here, put here to show us what we need to do with our country. He took the Constitution for a test ride and he's tried this, try that. No one's ever challenged it before like Trump. And so when Trump's gone and Biden gets in, they're going to realize where the weaknesses were and then they're going to fix it and it's all for the best. That's the whole point, you see. You don't want to if you can. You don't want to blame others for your misfortune. You want to accept. You know, myself, I've got one. It's not a flaw, it's a character thing. Because I grew up in the country, I don't think I've ever turned down a request for help. One time we were playing in Calgary, the Stampede. We found a. I don't know how we did it, but we got a flatbed truck in a parking lot and we put our band up there and we're playing away. And we had friends going around collecting money from everybody. We made a shitload of money. Pockets.

The Calgary Stampede. Yee haw.

My pockets were bulging. Money. And I'm walking home, getting ready to go home with my guitar case, and this old guy come up to me and he says, hey, buddy, can you help me out? I said, what do you need? I thought he needed money. He said, no, no, no, I don't need money. He says, I got a job. I got to empty this boxcar by tonight, you know, and if I do, you know, I get paid, and if I don't, I'm not going to get paid. And so if you help me out, I'll split it with you. Now I had a pocket full of money. I could have said, sorry, buddy. I went and helped him. I didn't get home till six, I think six or seven in the morning. And it was unloading a coal. Remnants of coal.

That's a beautiful story. Yeah.

When I got home, I was covered with cold dust. I had to go have a bath, a couple of baths, and I just had to talk to myself, what's going on here? And that was my idiosyncrasy. I had to help him. I could not refuse a cry for help. And then I think about a month or so later, he showed up at my house with the Money to pay me.

Oh, wow, okay. He came back.

Yeah, yeah, he paid me, he paid me. But that was, it was a character lesson that I'm very proud of.

This is the wholesome roots of just being kind to each other. And we're all in the life together.

Or someone says, help me, you help them. That's as simple as that. And we're equipped, by the way. You know, we're equipped, we're given, we're given all the tools we need to help others and to accept help too. Because it's not just a one sided thing. There are times when you need help and it's like a test. It's a character test. And that's what life really is.

If I didn't have people helping me, I don't know where I'd be. There was people that reached out out of nowhere. Just came out of, out of the blue when I was in my worst moments, struggling moments. And how do you pay that back? Well, you can't. You can pay it forward though, and help someone else.

Yeah, yeah, another soul. That's why, you know, when I see the homeless, this rich friend of mine, you know, they're talking about the homeless and I said, see, you know who the homeless are? And he goes, oh. And I says, you and me, but for the grace of God. That's us. And one day maybe that will be us. We don't know.

Life's always changing. I definitely want to respect you. I could talk with you forever, but I want to respect your time too. So you just cut me off when we got to go here.

I'll do a couple more.

Well, I was going to ask you now that we talked about rock bottom, so I had to watch your YouTube on Dancing with the Stars again. And this was like some sort of a snoop, you know, D O W G meets Roomba and salsa and groovin sort of hip thrust things thrown in the middle with Cheech bouncing in the car in the background. But what, in your words, was your top moment like? What was your. When you felt that you had finally rocked it in life and you're like, wow, this is among the best moments ever. And I'm just soaking in that moment. What was it?

I don't know if I've reached it yet. I mean, there was a bunch, I guess. I guess when we. When Cheech and Chong opened for the Stones in the forum in Los Angeles and Mick Jagger was going with Nicaraguan girl, I forget her name. And they had an earthquake in Nicaragua and so it was to help Help them out, you know. So the Stones did a concert and we were the opening act. And I think that was probably. I mean, it doesn't get any better than that. I can only imagine 18,000 people screaming at our routines because, you know, we were so avant garde at the time, you know, and all of a sudden we're there with the Stones, you know, playing an audience that we would never play. That was one of them. I've had a bunch of them. I played guitar with Jimi Hendrix. He sat in one night. We had all night. In fact, the owner had to pull the plug to make us quit playing. I had a private session with Wes Montgomery one time in Vancouver because he played in this little jazz club. And most of the people there were junkies and they were passed out. Jones and Wesley. I was the only guy that was upright. And so we talked and he told me his life story. And then he. Then he played a concert for me. He said, well, I better play a set. There was just me. So he played a whole set for me. I've had someone, like I said, I hung with Timothy Leary. We were both on the road one time and Tim liked to think he was a road comic. He was a great guy. And now I've had some beautiful. I'm getting high with George Harrison. Not talking, just smoking and looking at him thinking, wow, this is the Beatle. The Beatle, yeah. I've had some incredible moments. And then my wife Shelby, you know, I got her doing comedy because I, I couldn't leave her at home, you know, she was too beautiful. She's into dancing, you know, so she's been my, my everything. In fact, I'm learning a song about Nat King Cole.

Just as the wrap up subject here, before I let you go was on the subject of marijuana. I mean, when I was arrested for selling marijuana, I was treated with the same sort of regard as a heroin dealer. And it was difficult, obviously. And so I quit everything because I had such a stigma that was created. And then all of a sudden, people that I know and respect are taking CBD gummies to sleep better. And one of my lawyer friends closed his practice to open up a grow op on a proper level. And then I was having some pretty extreme anxiety in 2018, 19, that was disrupting my whole life and my sleep and everything. And then I discovered the medicinal aspects of marijuana for the first time. I didn't know it back then when I was 16. I was just a kid trying to be happy and I was very depressed and sad. So that was my Advil at the time, so to say.

Yeah. And it worked.

Yeah. I have guests on the show who sometimes have been severely addicted to heroin, living on the streets or lost everything or harmed themselves or suicide attempts and very difficult situations. And it's interesting to have this new perception of marijuana that's coming mainstream and to look at that not as a drug on the same level as a heroin or something, that's going to be damaging. To look at it more of a. This is a helpful thing. There are medicinal elements to it. And sometimes people can't handle any sort of drug at all without going in some spiral. And other times it's a very healthy thing.

Well, it's everybody's karma. Everybody's different.

Everyone is different. And that's what I was trying to.

Loop back to, especially with marijuana. It depends on. Look at the spectrum. You got El Chapo murders, people over the marijuana industry, and then you got people that in India that they're zealots, you know, where they smoke until they see God. Marijuana has always been around. It's always. It's in the Bible, you know, they call it canna C a n n a. You know, it's what Moses, you know, talked to the burning bush. That's the burning bush that he. That he talked to again. Everybody's going through is because of themselves. They charted out this life for them and it's a mountain. There's a saying that if you don't have big problems, your little problems become your big problems, because it's a physical world. We're here to learn. My oldest son, you know, now he has a bit of an eating problem, and it was a shock because he'd been Mr. Mr. Universe all his life because I got him in a gym when he was 8 years old, just copying me. And so he had a beautiful. But all of a sudden, when he got married, he gained 30, 40 pounds. You know, he got totally out of shape, but instead of me, you know, ragging on him or anything else, I did the opposite. He's learning. It's his karma. He has to go through this. He has to learn and he has to deal with it and enjoy, enjoy the food binges that you can go on because you can't. You can go through your whole life, you know, being very strict like my wife does, you know, she's still got the same girly body she had when she was 17, you know, and this is three kids later. Everybody's here for their own reason, and we have to respect that. And the best you can do Like I say is help. Your show is very helpful because it gives people a chance to come up and verbalize, vocalize what they're going through. And the good news? The good news is it never ends. It just changes. And that's why you look at people when they're. They're on the wrong path. Give them a chance, you know, maybe next life they'll come back and they'll be on a different path. Or maybe not. Eternity is a long time. You can't even see the beginning or the end because there was no beginning. There is no end.

It's a loop. It continues. Yeah.

And as far as marijuana goes, it's always been here. It'll always be here. It's people's perceptions, how they think and how they want to control. And when this pandemic is over, it's not going to go back the way it was. Nothing ever goes back to the way it was. We're whipping through this universe right now at a speed of 10, 35 miles an hour. That's how fast Earth is moving. And it's not going to say, oh, I made a mistake, and stop, go back and do the journey again. It's going to keep going. Why? Because that's the nature of the universe. You know, we're whipping through. And this is just one. Just think about this. This is just one universe. There are countless zillion universes, and right now we can't see the. There's no end to the universe.

We're in 100 million. 100 million.

Yeah. And now they're coming up with these theories. I blew Joe Rogan's mind a little bit, but now he's into this alien. I told Rogan, I said, eternity is so incredible, when you think about it. We could conceivably be the only life in this particular universe. There are so many universes to be had. You know, people always say, you know, there's another planet, looks like Earth. We could be in there. I disagree. I think that we are unique, and we are so unique. There's only us in this universe. Because no matter how you look at it, we will never know.

Not in our lifetimes, no.

Well, in our lifetimes, times. Because by the time we're. No. When we graduate from here, I consider Earth probably grade three, maybe. And when we've done everything we can on Earth, then we'll evolve to another. Another universe. And then another universe. I mean, who knows? It never stops. But that's what. Here's the thing, and I'll leave you with this Biblically speaking, people have misunderstood the Bible. They take it literal, and a lot of times they don't even have the education to take anything literal, but they'll take the Bible and etc. And they misunderstand. Like when Jesus said, I am the way, the light, you know, that whole thing, Jesus wasn't talking about himself. He was saying that the I am, which we all are. You are. I am. The I am will lead you everywhere. The I am, that was the Hebrew name of God, Yahweh, which means I am.

We're talking about inner guidance. Inner and connecting with ourselves. Deeper.

No, we are unique. I am is the unique. There's no one other in this universe like you. There's no one on this universe like me. Come close, but not exactly like we are I. And so the I am is the holy word of God, which is I am, you are, we are. And our only job in this universe is to help others. That's all.

Well, if everyone listening to this right now just took a moment and helped someone, the world will be a better place.

Oh, totally. Not only help someone, but let others help you.

Set that ego aside.

If you need help, let others help you. They're waiting to help you. Everybody's waiting. You can't impose it on you. They can try, but it doesn't work. When the pupil's ready, the teacher appears. That's the other thing too.

Okay, well, thank you everyone listening to this. I hope you keep all this in mind re listen to this episode, share it with your friends. Remember that you do have the power to make a positive choice today. And you do have the power to make some changes that you're going to be proud of tomorrow. And remember to help someone. And maybe more importantly, find the courage to set aside your ego and ask for and receive help that you might need today. So thanks everyone for listening and for being here. Tommy, I really appreciate your time and we'll see you guys or talk to you guys. Next time on from rock bottom to rockin it.

Okay, man. Take care. Love you.

Thanks, you too. Love you too, man. And that's it, my friends, for this episode. We will see you next time. Please send me an email, say hello, give me some feedback, let me know what you think, give me some tips and suggestions. I'd love to hear from you. Also, please share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, doesn't matter. Just get it out there. I really appreciate it. And we'll see you next time on from rock bottom to rockin it have a rockin it day.