27: Severe Depression Survivor to TV Star & Professional Comedian // The Story of Jessica Holmes

Many people who have been through depression will recognize this, that the only thing I felt consistently was anger. That was the only kind of clear indicator that I was still alive was that I would blow up at different things. And it always had to do with my husband because he was my safe person. I was at home with him and I was trying to hide it from the kids. And I could just see how miserable I was making him. And I felt ashamed of it the whole time. But I just, I couldn't stop. The best way forward is just to put one foot in front of the other. Sometimes a task that's ahead of you feels daunting and huge. And it's like you said, you were looking at your problem as one giant thing instead of looking at like, what can I do in this minute today to move toward my goal?

Welcome to From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. I'm your host Eric Gilbert Williams, and this is the podcast where we explore personal stories of people who hit absolute rock bottom, then got back up, wiped off the dust, kicked failure to the curb, and now they're rocking it like you'd never believe if you didn't hear it. Live. Right here we cover subjects in business, sports, and life in general. If you like this podcast, please share it. These interviews are intended to inspire, to motivate, to give hope and vision. So please share this episode with someone who needs it. Use your Instagram Account, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn hand signals. Trained pigeon sent smoke signals up in the air. Use Morse code, whatever you like, just share the love and share this episode. Also, email me anytime. Podcastericilbertwilliams.com Send me questions you would like to have asked of future guests and I will incorporate them. Or just send me some suggestions on how to run a better podcast. Or just say hello, I'd love to hear from you. That's podcastricilbertwilliams.com I know you're gonna love today's interview, so let's get started.

With.

Us here today on From Rock Bottom, the Rockin it is one of the awesome comedians from the recently popular Canadian TV show Royal Canadian Air. Farce just had its last episode. Last year, Jessica Holmes, injured through two years of inhibiting depression, which she's gonna tell us more about very soon. She's now a mental health comedian, which is all about helping us heal from within and thrive through. You can check out her book on Amazon called Depression the Comedy. There will be a link in the show notes of this episode on our website to make it easy for you to find Jessica's opened for acts of incredible people like Jerry Seinfeld, Leslie Nielsen, Ellen DeGeneres. And she's also helped to open up acts for visionaries like Deepak Chopra, Tony Robbins and Oprah Winfrey. And now she's with us here today on From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. Thank you for joining us. Jessica, how are you doing?

I'm awesome. Thanks for having me, Eric.

Of course. Anytime. I appreciate you being here and I'm looking forward to hearing about your story. As you can see, I'm recording. I mean, we're in the middle of COVID right now. This is crazy times. And I'm in a garage because it's the quietest place I can find and I can't get into my office and I don't feel like hiding out in my car locked up by myself. So I could have put the green screen up. But this show is all about being real and authentic and about being raw. And this is a crazy time. Here we are in the garage. I'm out in California, Cupertino, where are you?

Yeah, I'm in Toronto in my bedroom because this would be the only clean room left in the house.

Fair enough. Yeah. I'm from Kitchener originally and it's beautiful over here. And if our reception here gets a little bit laggy, we'll just work with it and it's all good. So tell me, what are you up to these days? What's happening in your world?

So when this whole quarantine thing started, I was a speaker, I'm a public speaker. And so I'll do between 40 and 50 shows a year just going across North America and speaking about mental health and doing it with a comedic spin. And then the quarantine hit. I noticed a lot of speakers were immediately going to like, well, how can I do a webinar? How can I do this and that? But I feel like whenever I'm on the road, I'm always saying what I wouldn't give for a little more time at home, for more time with my kids. And so I'm just chilling. This will be the only work related thing I do today. And then it's just back downstairs for baking and I don't know, maybe taking the dog out back and throwing a ball or something. But yeah, I'm sort of enjoying some downtime for now.

So you're not succumbing to the panic and fear and getting all caught up in that windstorm, is what you're saying?

Well, I definitely feel panic. There's an hour a day where I'll feel worried for the world or I'll feel worried about, okay, so in a year, my life will be back. Right? But I'm just allowing myself to feel that. And that's what the experts are saying. You know, just recognize that this is a pandemic. This is a time of crisis. You don't need to be a hero. You just have to keep yourself safe. And for me, that also means mental health.

Yeah, of course. I mean, what's really more important? And that's what this show is really all about. Would you mind telling me and telling everyone listening here, your story in your own words. You've been on air with some incredible people and I love checking out your YouTube. Anyone who's watching this, who's not seen Jessica Holmes, check out her YouTube stuff. It's guaranteed laughter. Do it. But tell me in your own story, in your own words here, what's your journey? What happened? I mean, you had a really tough spot there. And maybe we can start with that.

Sure. So I had postpartum depression after my second child was born. Cause we had them back to back. Irish twins, they call it when you just have one after the other. I assumed they would raise each other. Didn't work out that way.

Sorry, but why is that called an Irish twin? I have no idea.

I guess the Catholics are having babies quickly, I don't know. But whatever it is, as an Irish gal, I can joke like that. And it just was too much for me. And when I recovered from postpartum depression, which was very severe but acute, it was within a two month span. I just thought, I'm never having more kids, so I'll never be depressed again. Take that. Depression.

Yeah, you'll show it.

Yeah. About four years later, I started experiencing a different kind of depression. And this time it wasn't about feeling anxious or it was like a lack of feeling. It was a lack of being excited about things anymore. I couldn't see any reason to get out of bed other than my kids. I didn't take pleasure in my job anymore. And it got to the point where I spent about six months on the sofa and I even told my agent, don't call me, I don't want auditions, I don't want to do anything. You mentioned in the intro that I opened for Oprah Winfrey. And that was in the early part of my depression. And when I got the call to open for her, I felt a bit shocked, but I felt like it was happening to someone else. I didn't absorb the feelings. I didn't have the same positive reaction to it. I kind of felt like, okay, yeah, that's cool. I felt like I got a 10% off coupon at my favorite pizza place. Like, it just. It didn't match. She's my hero. Right?

So this is a pretty good pizza we're talking about here.

Oh, yeah. It should have been a bigger reaction, but I didn't really recognize the warning signs. I thought us artists are. We're always sensitive, and I guess people need downtime between shows. That's all it is. I'm just burnt out. But I mean, six months of crying on the sofa, that's more than burnt out. That's depression. And it was only when my husband and I went for marriage counseling. The counselor said, have you gone to see a psychiatrist lately? Do you know you might be depressed? And then the light bulb went off. And, I mean, that's a tough pill to swallow to feel like I went through it again and I didn't recognize it. And, you know, I had a lot of regret about. I wish I had caught on earlier, but what can you do? Like, the whole point of depression is that you don't care. You don't see a way out. You don't believe life would get better ever. And so just like you talk about it, about hitting rock bottom, it's really important to me to talk about mental health so that anyone who's in it, who believes I'll never be on the other side of it, my life could never get better than it is now. I'm just here to say it could. It happens for most people. They do come out of it. And so I'm grateful to share that.

Yeah, I mean, like, when I was younger and going through my struggles when I was a teenager, the subject of mental health, I never even heard that word before or that term or phrase. It never existed. And to admit that, to even try and talk about, oh, you know, I'm feeling sad today, it was embarrassing. It was not something that was respected or given due credit. And I have this theory. Like, when I left and had my troubled times, to me it was like a kid that snapped. And to me, when a kid snaps, there's theoretically, there's three things that happen. Harm to self, harm to others, or avoidance. And harm to self could be, in worst case, suicide. Harm to others could be. I mean, for me, it was at the same time as some shootings that were happening in some of the schools in the United States. And avoidance is a lot of times in drugs. But it doesn't have to get there. It doesn't have to get to this breaking point. And what I hear you're describing is you didn't even realize what was going on for a long time. And so many people, I think, can resonate with not understanding what's happening to them. Was there a final moment? Was it the Oprah Winfrey invitation that really made you click? Or was there something that happened that made you realize, whoa, there's something that I need to take care of right now?

I would say that within my marriage, my husband was the only person I felt safe really being myself with. And many people who have been through depression will recognize this, that the only thing I felt consistently was anger. That was the only kind of clear indicator that I was still alive, was that I would blame blow up at different things. And it always had to do with my husband because he was my safe person. I was at home with him, and I was trying to hide it from the kids. And I could just see how miserable I was making him. And I felt ashamed of it the whole time, but I just. I couldn't stop. And so he said, I want to see a marriage counselor. And I was like, no, we're not doing that. And he said, what if I pick somewhere that's near a Tim Hortons? And I said, sure. He lured me with coffee. And what I would say, my biggest sort of moment of rock bottom for me after. When I came out of the depression, I found out about all of these different series that were currently airing that I would have been eligible to audition for. But I had told my agent that I wasn't available for six months. And because TV happened so far in advance, the planning, I ended up not working for about a year after that. And that was a really tough pill to swallow for me to see all that I had lost, career wise. But also, it's my passion. Acting is my passion. And that part was hard. It was really hard to know that I probably influenced my kids in a negative way at that time. As much as you try and hide it, they were like, why is mom crying that the coffee spilled? You know, in their own young minds, they would have known something was wrong. And all I can do is forgive myself and live each day as passionately and as kindly and kind to myself as well as possible. It took a while to get there. I was angry about the lost time for a while. And now I would say I'm at peace with it. I understand we can't go back in time. I don't think there's anything I could have done differently necessarily. I didn't know. So I'm just, I'm grateful to be on the other side.

Yeah. And I'm grateful you're on this side as well. And as soon as we come back from this short little break, you're back. Jessica Holmes is back. You're doing stand up comedy again. You're healing people with humor. I want to talk about this word thrive that I've seen you discuss and talk about. And that's going to be as soon as we come back from this short break here at From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. You know that I love to support charitable organizations, people and groups that have positive impacts on the world and are making positive change. And the Canadian Mental Health association is certainly one of those places. You can check them out at CMHA CA and you can find a ton of resources that deal with mental health in a variety of different applications. If you check out the website, there's lots of resources, a lot of information to look through. And when you contact them, you're going to be able to find peer support groups. And there's also an awards ceremony and a lot of people that are there to help you get to the next step in your mental health recovery. There's a focus on the pandemic. Obviously, Covid is impacting people everywhere. A section focused on people that are affected by police and the mental health of maybe having a negative experience in that realm. And we know a lot about that by watching what's happening in the United States. But it happens everywhere, right? It's not just there, it happens everywhere. And this is one of the resources to help people through, through that. You know, entrepreneurs are suffering everywhere. There's an echo that's going to happen with this pandemic in future generations. And anyways, I can go on and on, but just check out CMHA ca, make a donation to there. If you don't have a problem today you're looking to get help with, then maybe you can just support them in their cause and help them grow and help other people. Or just check out the resources and you'll hopefully find what it is that you need today. And now back to the. Okay, we're back. Thank you for joining us again, Jessica. And it's not just us that's back. That's back. You're back as well in the comedy scene. You're on stage, you're helping people laugh and you're helping people heal with humor. And I want to talk about the subject of thriving. Please tell me what's on your mind. Tell me all about this.

All right, well, I'm glad you brought this up because I feel like we just talked about the sad part of depression, but I'm happy to be out of that and talking about what comes after depression, which is so beautiful. But this really applies to anyone who ever has had a setback of any kind, whether it's a job loss, whether it's the current pandemic that we're in. When someone goes through something difficult, could be medically, could be emotionally, there's a tendency when you come out of that to just be in survival mode, to just feel like, okay, I'm not going to rock the boat. I'm just going to be grateful that I'm healthy, that I'm alive. I'm just going to not ask for anything beyond this moment and today and my health. And that's not really living, that's not really thriving. And so within a couple of years after the depression, I felt like I didn't have the self esteem to sort of go after what I wanted because I was used to being hurt and being afraid and so kickstarting your life back up to sort of start expecting more for yourself, to want more for yourself, really as easy as just taking a few small steps every day, a couple of more minutes to do things that make you feel strong and excited about your day. And I've been doing it for a couple of years and it just. I'm glad when I wake up now and I'm excited and I got my ambition back and that feels really good.

I had a bit of a rough day yesterday and the first thing I did this morning when I woke up as part of my routine is open up my journal. I'm still in bed. I haven't even gotten out yet. I haven't done anything. And I just wrote three things that I'm grateful for. It's simple and some people think it's silly, but for me it works. It helps me start the day on that positive track. What do you do?

Some of the things are that you're grateful for?

Yeah, I mean, it was really simple. It doesn't have to be big stuff. I was grateful this morning. If I remember correctly, what I wrote was that I had a comfortable bed to sleep in. And I sat there and it's not just about writing, it's about experiencing it. And I won't put the paper on, I won't put my pencil to the paper until I can acknowledge that I actually do feel grateful that this is a comfortable bed. I mean, I've had uncomfortable beds. You know, we've all gone backcountry camping and slept on the dirt. Right. I am actually grateful that I had a comfortable bed and it was actually an okay sleep. It wasn't a terrible sleep or a good one, but I'm really grateful for that rest that I did get in order to be on here and not fall asleep while we're doing an interview.

I was told that the more specific we can make our gratitude list, the better that is. So it's not just like, I'm grateful for the good, nice people in my life. It's kind of like I'm grateful for my third grade teacher who seemed to show extra interest in me and told me that I could be anything I wanted. Or I'm grateful for my mattress, because you know what? I've been camping, and this is a beautiful way to sleep. So I think that's awesome. I was just curious.

And the barometer that I use is, do I actually smile while I'm writing? Because the smile is the indicator that, yeah, I actually am feeling grateful. Or at least I'm having a little bit of fun the morning. And starting on that track, what are the things that you do?

Part of my recovery from depression, my therapist was asking me because it took me at least six months to get out of the depression, even once I had the diagnosis. And my therapist said, okay, what really makes you joyful in life? And I was like, moving. I'm a really physical person. I love hiking. I love doing this and that, but I just. I can't get off the sofa. I can't. Is there anything that could make you get off the sofa? And I was like, maybe a dog? And she was like, yeah, that'll work. You have to be like a sad dog. Like, a dog that really. And she was like. And on her prescription pad, she actually wrote down sad dog and tore it off and handed it to me. And she said, go fill that prescription. And so my partner and I went out and found a rescue dog that needed a good home. And she did sit there looking at me, sad every day and let me off the sofa because I was like, I'm sad and you're sad. Some days we'd go out for a walk, and I'd be, like, crying with sunglasses on. And it didn't matter. I still just did it. I just kept going. And then eventually one of those days started running a little and then running more. And within a few months, I was looking forward to that run. And so now that's the first thing I do every day is I do a 5K with my dog. It's really beautiful. I love her and she's my best buddy. And so that's what I start the day with. And I was actually telling my daughter this morning, she did her homework first thing and was like, oh, I feel so good. I did my homework and I said, I know actually it's really important that people have a sense of accomplishment in the morning to make them feel good. And even speaking of that, I believe in making your bed first thing in the morning. And part of that comes from one of the very high up men in the military who was responsible for capturing Saddam Hussein and tracking down Osama bin Laden. He wrote a book and it's called make youe Bed. And I just found it so amazing that this man who's had this incredible career, he said his number one advice to people is just make your bed in the morning. Because he said it's a thing you do for your mental health where you just say, sorry, there's cat hair flying through the hair. He said it's just something you do for yourself first thing in the morning. And it gives you routine, it gives you a break, brief sense of accomplishment. So to kind of set the tone for your day. And then you always know at the end of the day you come home to this thing that says, like, look at this luxury you have. It's this May bed. And I love that principle. I love the thought that tiny things are what have a snowball effect and build for us.

Yeah, I feel like we're talking about cleaning our mind. Talk about mental health and how healthy is the mind. Well, when we clear that little bit of a clutter and just take care of it and, and make that the priority, then. It's tricky though, because we're talking about intangible things like cleaning the mind and making a bed. It's tough to make that leap sometimes that something that small and that seemingly insignificant can be so powerful and transforming. And you went through that process. Going back a second, you said that you do 5k runs. Now. I remember I was watching one of your standup shows and you were talking about you had set your goal as a 1k run. And I have to ask now, was that in the process of getting to the 5k or was that just for fun?

That was a funny line that I had. Honestly, back when I was talking to my psychiatrist where she was like running a 1k, I honestly wanted to give up. And that's all I could do. But here's what I tell everyone. Everything counts. When it comes to exercise or it comes to doing something nice for yourself, cleaning your own kitchen or something you do to take care of yourself in any way, shape or form, everything counts. And so if it's as small as I'm going to take the stairs today instead of the elevator, or I'm going to have so Tony Robbins whole program, his like, 30 day makeover challenge is based on just doing one small change every day for 30 days. That could be I'm going to have one less cigarette every day for 30 days. It could be I'm going to take the stairs or I'm going to eat celery. I'm going to put celery in with my lunch once a day for 30 days. And all it does is gives you a time, this sense of accomplishment that is very small. But this, like I said, it has a snowballing effect. And when you build on that little confidence, suddenly you feel okay to go on to larger things. And so I tell people my success started with celery because 20 years ago, I was listening to Tony Robbins and I was like, I'll start even more celery. And then it built and it built and it built. And I feel like I've had a very successful career and definitely had my setbacks. But every time I just get back on that bike and I keep going and I start small and those things blossom. If you're having a tough day and you miss it, then you just start again the next day. Whether it's with your diet or with exercise, you just start again.

Because this subject of mental health can feel overwhelming at times. And I can only relate to my own story. But there's certainly, there's been moments where I'm facing, my company's about to collapse. I'm fearing about going bankrupt. It was one time I had about three weeks of Runway left, and then 50 employees were going to be out of work or they're all gone because the world's falling apart and it's this big giant ball that's as big as the sun. And it's too much to deal with when you're looking at the whole thing or when I was looking at the whole thing in one unit. But it did come down to just one little step. One day at a time. Really focus and get that schedule. And of course, you know, I didn't go bankrupt. No one lost their job. It was actually a fantastic year. But it had to get broken down into tiny, tiny steps. And for Me, it was about acknowledging that those little steps, that celery is a really big step in the right direction, and it does lead to bigger and bigger steps that have bigger impacts. And eventually, you know, here we are.

Yeah. And that's your story. Is a perfect metaphor. Because my pet peeve is when people are trying to convince you you should be happier in life, whether they titled their book how to Be Happy or. And the truth is, you can't channel happiness. That's a giant feeling. And that's a feeling that just comes from doing the things that make you feel good, doing the things that make you feel energized, and doing the things that give you purpose. Happiness is the byproduct. It really can't be the goal because you can't tangibly achieve happiness. What you can do is something that comes from cognitive behavior therapy. And that is just saying, like, for example, if you feel like you have no energy in your life, you would ask yourself, when's the last time? I remember feeling energetic, really energized, like, time flew by and I couldn't believe how fast time was going. And I felt. When I went to sleep that night, I felt like, you know what? I used my every ounce of energy I had today. And whatever the answer is to those questions, you repeat those things, and eventually you'll get back those feelings. And the people who are fulfilled, the people who are really engaged in their life, happiness isn't a concept that would even occur to them because they just say, I feel great. I do the things I love, and I give back. And so I don't like the term happiness in terms of this giant, scary umbrella approach. I'm a fan of, like, hey, what little thing are you going to do for yourself today that you're going to feel kind of proud of? And I like working from there so that people are. Instead of chasing the concept of happiness, it's just, you're pushing for more wellness or more engagement and fulfillment in your life. Those are tangible.

Yeah. And we're talking about the application of these principles that we hear about everywhere. And one of the principles that I've read about many times, and I do believe is that laughter is healing. And tell me about this subject, about using your laughter to help heal, heal people and working through mental health challenges. Like, what are you talking about right now on stage? When people go and check you out on YouTube, what are they going to find? What's that all about?

So I wrote Depression, the Comedy, and I was nervous about giving it that title, but I Felt like that's exactly what it is. It's me taking something bad that happened and retelling it in a light comedic way just so that it doesn't scare people off. I definitely don't want to trigger anyone who is going through something, but I also believe in the comedian's sort of mantra that tragedy plus time equals comedy. When you go through anything, you give it enough time and enough context, and then once you're able to laugh about it, that's when there's healing happening. And because laughter is a release, it's a release of tension. For me, getting on stage, my favorite moment is when I'm able to make people feel like we're all in this together. And I love when you're watching a comedian and they say something and you're like, I know exactly what they mean. So that's what comedy does for us. And part of my healing journal was to remember to do a comedy journal. So I used to have a regular journal where I just write down what happened. But the Oprah adage that you become what you believe is something that resonates with me. I think what you are looking for in the world, like, if you look for, I want to see 10 examples of kindness today. If you just keep your eyes peeled for that, you probably will see examples of kindness. So for me, I get up every day and I go, what's going to make me laugh today? What's going to be funny? And so I just have an app on my phone where I mark down anything that makes me laugh. And now I see more comedy out there. And I'm not doing it to use those comedic bits in my career. I'm doing it just because that's what I want to see every day. We have a choice to get out of bed, where you do your gratitude journal. And you're like, I'm looking for gratitude today. And if people get out of bed and say kindness, I'm going to look for kindness in the world. I'm going to look for humor in the world. It's amazing those things are out there. We just because of our caveman brain, we're sort of programmed to look for fear. We're programmed to look for the problems that could arise in our day. And that's a pretty stressful way to live. So checking in with the comedy is my way to do it. And the funny journal, it's great. It's. For example, one Easter, my family used to do these Easter egg hunts in this giant park, but it has since become an off Leash dog park. We would go everywhere and hide chocolate in bags and tie them up.

Oh, no.

We're all unwrapping dog poop for what felt like an hour on this really cold Easter. And we all started complaining and saying, we're not finding Easter eggs, and this is disgusting. I keep finding. And then my aunt goes, I don't think I ever took the chocolates out of the trunk. And no one had hidden the eggs. That is how disorganized we are. I love those moments. And it just takes the sting out of it as well, right? When stuff is bad. There's a woman I know who, she worked for a grocery store chain, and she had thought up this promotion, and the promotion didn't go well at all. And the board said to her on a Friday, hey, we'd like to meet with you on a Monday morning. And she was terrified. She was like, oh, this is going to be awful. I'm going to get in trouble. I'm going to be publicly reprimanded for this bad idea. And it was getting the best of her and really stressing her out. And she decided, you know what? I'm going to have the last laugh. And she asked her son to show her his football equipment and to teach her how to put it on. And Monday morning, she wore the football equipment, the uniform, and just said, okay, fellas, give me everything you got. Laugh about it. And so she still got reprimanded. It still wasn't a great idea. But laughter just takes the sting out of things. We take ourselves so seriously and we take life seriously. And I think this current pandemic, right, it's a serious thing, and we have to take it seriously in terms of, you know, stay home, wash your hands. But I love that a lot of comedians are finding the funny in it and posting videos online about trying to get the kids to do chores or whatever other headaches arise out of this. There's just joy to be found in laughing.

The meme pool has just been booming with the most outrageous and hilarious memes just floating around about Corona. And it is a serious subject. How do we strike the balance here between finding humor in something from a healing intention versus taking something as seriously as it should be? Where is the line? You know, how do we deal with that?

Yeah, I think it's who the brunt of the joke is. If the brunt of the joke were the people who have passed on. If the brunt of the joke were the healthcare workers who are making so many sacrifices right now, a comedian would say, no, I'm not going to do that joke. I'm not going to touch that. But when the brunt of the joke is us humans with our personality quirks. If the brunt of the joke is celebrities who are in their mansions crying about how hard it is to be stuck in this 18 room mansion, it's called punching up when you make fun of the people who have more. It's called punching down when you make fun of people who are struggling more. And so good comedians do not punch down, they punch up. I feel like I'm fair game. Celebrities are fair game. The virus itself is fair game. I just think you want to ask yourself whose feelings would possibly get hurt and who am I actually making fun of in this thing? I actually had a thing the other day. I was writing a post about teaching the elderly to use zoom because I'm pretty sure at this point everyone has had an older relative who can't figure out who's like all over the screen trying to push the buttons. And I actually questioned, I was like, am I hurting people's feelings with that? But I thought, you know what, so many of us are going through this right now trying to teach other people to use zoom. So I still use the joke. And I got a text from my mom and from my mother in law. I'm making fun of a fictional relative, a fictional grandma. That's all.

Yeah. Nothing to do with you at all. I love my mom, obviously, so much. And there's this weird thing. Anytime I try to help her with technology, first of all, she just, if she just looks at a computer, it'll start doing weird things like the screen has physical bolts holding the screen together with the back of the lap. I've never seen this before, ever. But that's how you fix things, right? Put some screws in it. And every time she touches anything, it just falls apart and does the most outrageous stuff. And when I try to fix it, I can't. It's this weird clash. And it was so frustrating when I was younger. And now it's this. It's a source of humor. We always talk about it and laugh about how we just can't talk about technology. Let's just not go there.

My mom, I'm allowed to make fun of the fact that when she's taking a photo with a camera, she has to hold one shot with one. But that's one of those things where it's just a universal truth, is that it's tough teaching technology to people who aren't as familiar with it. So I love those things because I feel like there's healing and laughter. My favorite viral video to come out of this is the family in England singing One Day More from Les Miserables. And the kids are just singing about wanting to get out of the house. But it's amazing because it's this family of six and they all memorized their parts and wrote them and they harmonized and it was beautiful. But to me, it was great because it was funny, but it was also echoing like, yes, we can make it through one more day. So it was beautiful. When comedy mixes the two, and I feel like that's the trend, too. If you look at Adam Sandler and Chris Rock and the people doing Wanda Sykes, the people who are doing specials on Netflix now, it's not just the jokes. It's also the message about part of just being human. Adam Sandler at one point in the show started talking about how much he appreciates his spouse or the passing of Chris Farley. And Chris Rock talks about divorce and how he felt like he failed in it. And so for me, it's really beautiful when we can laugh together about a universal problem. It's so healing.

Yeah, it really is. And as soon as we come back from this short break, I want to ask you, because people that are watching and listening to this right now, what's it like to open up for big names like Oprah and like, I have to go there. We have to talk about it at least a little bit. So as soon as we come back from this short break. And then I also have a really important question that I want to ask you again, right when we come back from this break, it's that time again on From a rock bottom to Rockin it. To talk about our sponsors, today's episode is brought to you by. Wait for it. It's brought to you by me. I'm the sponsor. I pay for this. So that means I get to basically talk about anything I like for one minute. Please share this episode with someone who needs it, someone who wants to learn and grow in their life. Please subscribe to the channel and share it with your friends. Remember also to download a copy and purchase a copy of Jessica Holmes book. It's called Depression the Comedy. You can find it on Amazon.com or Amazon ca or.uk or wherever you are in the world. I am right now live on the website and I just bought a copy right now and sent it to my mom because I thought that would be a nice gift. It's all about mental health, finding the humor inside of our lives so we can heal, so we can grow, so we can thrive. Remember to check out her book. There's a link to it on the show Notes to this episode on my website. You can just click on that link and be directed right to Amazon or you can go to Amazon yourself. And now back to the show. Okay, we're back now. Thank you again, Jessica, for joining us. Everyone listening. I hope you check out the show notes to this episode. Check out Jessica's book. I know that you're going to like it. And I want to ask what's it like to open up for Oprah? I have to know. Maybe it's my personal curiosity or maybe hopefully other people are thinking the same thing. But tell me, what's it like to be on stage and be that person?

It was beautiful. There were 9,000 people in the audience.

Is that all? Eh, that's all.

And we did two separate shows and people were really annoyed because they had been in the lineup for, I think some of them for like six hours. The seating, for some reason was first come, first serve instead of pre assigned. So my first joke when I got on stage, I said, I want everyone to take a deep breath. And this is an Oprah crowd, so they're into it. They do a deep breath. And I put my arms up. And then I said, now forgive the long lines. And it got a huge laugh. So I was like, you're here now. You can actually chill. No more fistfights over who's getting what seat. You made it. You did the hard work. And so that was pretty fun. But for me, it was all of my heroes were there. Tony Robbins, Deepak Chopra, Iyanla Van Zant. So it was a dream day. It's a shame that I was depressed at the time because I think I would have gotten more out of it had I not been.

But you were there anyways. Like, you did it. Like, this is a huge success in spite of you actually made it on stage despite the depression. And I think that's a great success that I just wanted to acknowledge too.

Okay. I'm going to start looking at it that way and be proud. But for me, it is a milestone. And every time I get introduced before I go on stage, that's part of my intro is she's open for Oprah Winfrey and Jerry Seinfeld. It always just makes me go, that happened. That happened. That's cool.

Yeah, it was real.

It makes me really grateful and excited to kind of jump on stage. But Jerry Seinfeld was amazing. He was very kind, said hi before the show, told me to break a leg. And then Ellen is so lovable and so famous that she had what felt like 20 security guards backstage. And even though I was the emcee and I had to be there introducing her, the security guards were saying, you gotta get out of the way. You gotta stay away from her. And for me, it was hard because I was like, dude, I'm the emcee. Like, I literally have to be sitting on the stairs here. I have nowhere else to go. But then when Ellen got on stage, she explained to the audience. She said, 2000 people a day ask me for two minutes of my time. And she said, I care about every single one of you. I want to give each and every one of you two minutes, but I can't have a life. I can't have a sense of self and give my entire day away with two minutes for every single person. So she said, I just decided I won't do any of it, and instead, I'll serve people when I get on stage, when I do this thing. And so I liked it because she didn't use the term mental health, but clearly that's what it was. It's clearly that she needs to retain some sense of privacy and some sense of what all of us want, which is just the ability to walk down the street without feeling like we belong to somebody else. We want to feel like we belong to ourselves. And I know she's a really genuine person, so I fully got it. But I was. I was like, I guess there's no chance of a photo, But I did get a photo with Suzanne Sommer.

All right. That's what I was celebrating.

Yeah.

I used to compete in amateur salsa, and I would travel around and be up there and dancing with my partner, and it was great. And what a rush to be standing on a stage that has. For me, it was hundreds of people, and you're just so next level up there. Like, how do you deal with, like, how did you do that? How did you manage to motivate yourself and successfully go on stage while you were dealing with a pretty severe mental health issue? What was your secret formula? It was cereal. Or was it like. You know what I mean? Like, how did you end up doing.

That during the depression, Getting on stage? It was just muscle memory. It was just like, they announce my name, I go up, I say the jokes I know I've memorized. It was just pushing myself that way. But the truth is, when I'm healthy, I'm nervous to get on stage, you know, every audience is different and you don't know what to expect. So I have this nervous, excited feeling. And Whoopi Goldberg described it as a horse who's about to run a race. And you can see they're in the box, but their muscles are going and they're so. They're excited, but they're nervous and they're charged up. And that's how I feel about it. I feel excited every single time. And sometimes that nervousness is to the point where I'll be like, why did I pick this job? What an awful job. And in that case, I've trained myself to just listen to a really fun song and kind of have my Rocky moment of like, do, do do do do do do do. Kind of just borrow a music.

When did you decide or realize that you wanted to get into comedy? Did it happen naturally or did you wake up one day and said, I'm going to be funny. Now, how did that happen?

People always told me I was funny and I was always like part of the improv team and the drama club. And even at university I did a sketch comedy thing. But it just. I'm not a person with great self esteem and it never occurred to me that I would be someone who could make a living at it. So I put it off and I put it off. And then my last year of university, a few friends dared me to try standup and I was like, well, I'll try if you try. And four of us went to this amateur night and tried it. And it turns out I wasn't the funniest, but I was the one who could stomach it because it's terrifying. Especially that first time they called my name. My knees were buckling, my legs were jello, I couldn't. My mouth was so dry. And on my way up to the stage, I just picked up a stranger's drink and took a swig and then went up. But then I got my first laugh and I was like, I love this. It's like a roller coaster. When it's over, you're like, oh, I want to do it again. But the truth is, starts going up the hill. You're like, this is terrible. I can't take it.

Well, I feel like when people see a comedian on stage, a friend of mine does really amateur standup comedy. And when I see a comedian on stage, I always think, oh, look at this amazing person who's born for it. They're built for it, doesn't affect them at all. It's fine, no worries. It Just happens without effort. And maybe people think about any profession or anyone who's really good at something, but the truth is that we're all human and we all have our own issues to go through. And I have to say, I mean, one of my favorite comedians ever was Robin Williams. And there was no way that I would ever have an inkling of an understanding that there was something going on there and that there was a mental health issue. And without shifting focus too much on that, I have to just say that there's such a struggle that goes on behind and under the surface for all of us. And it's so important to be able to talk about it and get it out there and acknowledge that maybe you were the funniest, but maybe you weren't, but you had the stomach to be able to keep going and keep doing this anyways and work through some of those issues. What do you say to people right now that are they're looking at their lives and they're thinking, oh, man, I'm stuck on this thing. There's no way I can really get through this. I've kind of tried this. I've tried to work on the little things. How do you do it? Why can't I do it? What do you say to these types of people that are struggling like that?

I would say that the best way forward is just to put one foot in front of the other. Sometimes a task that's ahead of you feels daunting and huge. And it's like you said, you were looking at your problem as one giant thing, instead of looking at, like, what can I do in this minute today to move toward my goal? And so if you can look at things in a way of what you are able to achieve, I think that's great. But I will also say not everyone has the stomach for certain lifestyles. And I would never, for example, counsel someone to go into comedy. Unless there's someone who loves the thrill of the chase and who loves a gamble, because every audience is a gamble. It's heartbreaking when you kill it in one city and then you go to the next city and you bomb. But the truth is, that's going to happen to everyone who's in comedy. So you have to really love what you do. But I also tell people, like, is this mentally healthy for you? And if it's not the healthiest choice for you, then don't do it. Like, my brother is a bus driver in Ottawa. He is a really content guy. That is what works for him. And I envy how sort of Just the guy is happy with his life. He has no complaints. And so I think, pick what makes you happy. And for some people, that's a really ambitious endeavor. And for some people, it's going to be. You know what I love what happens outside of my job. That's what I'm living for, is when I get to go home and be with my family or when I get to have balance in my life. Not everyone wants an emotional roller coaster. So I just think as we age, we get to know ourselves a little better and what we're good at. And yesterday I was talking to a cashier at the grocery store that I was at, and she told me she had been there for seven years and she had white hair. And I said, okay, what did you do before this? And she said, oh, I had a really high pressure job at a telecommunications company, and I chose life instead. And so now she works three days a week as a cash register. And she's always got a smile on her face. And she said, I love playing peekaboo with kids who come through. I love when people tell me I put a smile on their face. And when you're 20, you kind of think, oh, this is the way to happiness, success. And then I would say, what I've learned is just doing what you love and following your heart and cutting yourself some slack is a way that I feel grateful and excited in my life today.

Be kind to ourselves, eh? And you talk about this a lot in your book, I'm assuming when people buy it and read it as everyone's about to do. I'm sure these are the subjects that you talk about a bit. I'm thinking, is that right?

My favorite chapters are the three chapters about comedy. Just because they're things that wouldn't ever occur to people. Like, I have one chapter about the fact that I have a bit of social anxiety. I'm an introvert. I love getting on stage. I can get on stage in front of 9,000 people, but if you plunk me in a room of four people I haven't met and say, make small talk, like that is terrifying for me. So I just talk about some of the stories on the road that way. My favorite chapter of all is called the Humiliation Fee. The things us actors are asked to do for money. And they asked me to do a Martha Stewart impression. And so I thought I was being hired as an impersonator and I was gonna get. I was like, oh, this is perfect. This is what I do. I love impressions. And I got there and they just Handed me white gloves and a tray of cheese and said, okay, now go. Go give out cheese. Oh. And so I was. I don't understand. None of the guests at the party had been told that there'd be a Martha Stewart impersonator. So I was just walking around to people acting really weird and pleasant and intrusive in their conversations. And I could see people's awkwardness and like my chest was closing in at the time. But these are the kind of jobs that you get when you're an actor for hire. And. And then I talk about. There's a few chapters about marriage and, and how relationships get affected when you have mental health issues. And I was happy to talk about that because most of the people who come up to me after one of my mental health talks are the spouses or family of people going through depression. And they just want to know, what can I do? And my main message is, you cannot fix the person. You can't fix someone else's depression. But you can love them and not give them advice, but just give them a safe space where they can do the healing that they need to do.

That strikes a chord with me, one of my good friends from my entire life. We've been friends since we were really little. He struggles sometimes, often really. And I don't know what to do sometimes when I'm talking with him because he's in his own space and he just withdraws. And it's like anything that I throw at him in a positive way or in a. A happy way gets kind of twisted around or just discarded. And it's tough. I don't really know how to help him. And I want to fix him. And obviously it doesn't work that way. That's not how psychology works. But it's definitely the automatic go to in my brain. And probably people can relate to that, but I want to fix them. I can't. So you're saying that the best thing I can do is to just be myself, be grounded, and be a safe place for him to do that healing.

Yeah. And I understand it from your perspective, and I understand it from your friend's perspective, because I've been in both places. Right. We love people. We want to fix them. We want to give advice that we know will help them. But when you're depressed, you already have sometimes some self loathing that goes on. And any piece of advice just feels like the straw that broke the camel's back because you feel like, I can't even barely get up to go to the bathroom. That's how tired I feel. That's how discouraged I feel. You should read this book is so far beyond what I can do. And so what I found most helpful was when someone would say to me, listen, I care about you and I'm here. Is there anything I can do for you? And my answer would always be, no, there's nothing you can do. But it meant a lot to me that they would ask that. So it's the hardest thing to not give advice. But advice just puts more pressure on someone who really is doing their best. And even sometimes the people who were the happiest would be the ones that I would feel the worst around. And I knew they were trying to make me smile by smiling bigger, but I was like, your smile puts pressure on me.

Yeah, exactly. And I don't mean it that way. And I'm going to give him a call as soon as we're done this recording because I'm feeling inspired right now to reach out. There's so many other questions that I would want to ask you and we'll just have to keep in touch and hopefully we can have you maybe back on the show later on. And everyone remember to check out the show notes this episode to find a link to her book. You can buy it on Amazon. Remember to also like and subscribe to the channel and share it with your friends. Please share what's the point of doing these if you don't share it and people don't see it? So please share these episodes with people that need to hear it. I really appreciate that. It goes a really long way. Jessica, do you have anything on your mind that you want to ask me or talk to the audience about? Or is there something, you know, burning that you need to get out here so that we can make sure that we're covering everything?

I just want to say to anyone who is going through a difficult time, so many of us are right now, please be so kind to yourself and know that this is just a time to take care of ourselves and keep a roof over our head and do what we can and keep going. I know it's hard. And then to you, Eric, I just want to say you are this bright shining light and it has been my absolute privilege to talk to you. I wish there are more Eric's out there.

I appreciate that very much. Thank you. All right, we're going to wrap up and we will see you next time on from rock bottom to rockin it. Make sure to have yourself a rockin it day. One little piece of celery at a time.

Bye, guys.

And that's it. My friends, for this episode, we will see you next time. Please stay. Send me an email, say hello. Give me some feedback. Let me know what you think. Give me some tips and suggestions. I'd love to hear from you. Also, please share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, doesn't matter. Just get it out there. I really appreciate it. And we'll see you next time on From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. Have a Rockin it.