28: Extreme Alcoholic to Sober Forever // The Story of Susan Laurie

For anyone out there who is really feeling hopeless and in the depths of despair, I've gone from feeling like that and thinking I was going to die. There's something out there and there's always something worth living for. And you know, just because some things haven't worked to fix you, you've just got to keep searching and find the strength. So don't give up.

Welcome to From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. I'm your host, Eric Gilbert Williams, and this is the podcast Explore personal stories of people who hit absolute rock bottom, then got back up, wiped off the dust, kicked failure to the curb, and now they're rocking it like you'd never believe if you didn't hear it. Live right here, we cover subjects in business, sports, and life in general. If you like this podcast, please share it. These interviews are intended to inspire, to motivate, to give hope and vision. So please share this episode with someone who needs it. Use your Instagram Account, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn hand signals. Trained pigeon sent smoke signals up in the air. Use Morse code, whatever you like. Just share the love and share this episode. Also, email me anytime. Podcasterrickgilbertwilliams.com Send me questions you would like to have asked of future guests and I will incorporate them. Or just send me some suggestions on how to run a better podcast. Or just say hello, I'd love to hear from you. That's podcastricilbertwilliams.com I know you're going to love today's interview, so let's get started with us here today on From Rock Bottom to Rockin it is author of the book From Rock Bottom to Sober Forever, Susan Laurie. I love the title, by the way. It's very fitting for my show and I can't wait to dive into this with you. And I want to ask you like, where that came from because we must have had a similar inspiration here. Now, anyone listening, you can find the book on Amazon. It's a perfect fit for your friends that are exploring the subject and looking for help. So please share it with anyone who needs to read it. This is a show about helping people and you have the opportunity to help people every single day, right? So check out the book, share it with someone that needs to see it. It's a story about how Susan overcame her demons and went through her own version of rock bottom, facing imminent death, and then came through shining on the other side. So I'll let Susan share the story in her own words. Susan, welcome to From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. How are you Doing.

I'm really good. Thank you. And first of all, I just want to say huge thank you for inviting me, having seen the other people that have been involved with your podcast. So inspirational. So it's a real honor to be invited to share my story with you.

You're very welcome. It's a pleasure to have you here. I appreciate your time.

And like you said, that the title fits with what you're doing perfectly. And I did come from a place of real rock bottom. And the reason I wrote the book is because I'm just an average person who found myself in the real depths of very extreme alcoholism. I did lose everything. And it started as something just so innocent and so socially acceptable. So many people drink alcohol responsibly. So many people enjoy alcohol, and it is everywhere. So the reason for the book was to help people like me who found themselves not only addicted to alcohol, but also having gone down all of the different treatments available, couldn't beat it, and I was feeling hopeless and like I was going to die at the end.

Yeah. I mean, when I remember reading about you and reading about your book, you mentioned that there was a. This started all innocently, very, very young, as a student. And when I was young, I was a loner. I was an outcast. I had no friends. I didn't understand the world around me. I was sad and depressed, basically, and I discovered cigarettes. And cigarettes, to me, my first cigarette meant instantly that I was now accepted in a peer group, and it got me friends instantly. And that as a teenager struggling with peer pressure, that was more important to me than anything. Is there a parallel there that you can tell me about? Like, how was this your first experience there?

Yeah, I think with alcohol, it's a similar situation. You. I started drinking in social situations with my peers, but I found that it. I felt that it gave me confidence. I thought that it made me funnier. I thought that it made me more outgoing.

You thought that it did. So you're saying that it maybe didn't, but you thought so. It was like it's a mind trick.

Yeah. Okay. That I can sort of take a step back and look at my behavior. I believe that, you know, the person, the raw person, is better than the one that has had a drink. And even now, I'm not evangelical about alcohol. You know, my friends, my family still, you know, drink around me. And I know that the majority of people isn't a problem, but for some people, it does become a problem. And I think early on, because I did rely on it to at first Be more, maybe more confident with peers and then with work colleagues that can sort of flip over to being some, you know, a bit dangerous. Because if it becomes a necessity to have a drink before you feel you can chat or present or whatever work.

I have a question for you on the subject of what's the definition of alcohol addiction in this context? I know that we could look at any extreme and we could look at the extreme parts of your addiction and say that yeah, obviously that's what addiction is, but I would postulate that addiction probably starts a lot earlier than that. Way before that extreme outcomes happen, before the effects are so severe. The addiction I would think, probably starts a lot earlier, sort of under the radar. Is that right?

Absolutely. That's the thing about addiction, especially with alcohol. It can be so subtle. And I think, you know, rather than trying to put quantities on, you know, if you drink X amount, then you've got a problem. It's not at all. You can drink a relatively small amount and still have a problem problem with alcohol because it's more around the feelings, the reasons behind your drinking. So if you're drinking to say, cover something up or because you can't face people without a drink, you might only, you know, need a couple of glasses of wine. But it's the reasons behind your drinking. Separate people with a problem to the average person who can take it or leave it.

I remember a co worker of mine, I did a construction business for about 10 years in Canada and one of my co workers is kind of a rough trade. So you see all sorts of walks of life. So one of my coworkers, I wouldn't say that he was addicted to alcohol, but something weird happened with him. He would have, you know, he'd be halfway through his first beer after work and it would literally be like Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde. He'd be a completely different personality, aggressive, loud, belligerent, everything nasty that would come with excessive drinking. But he hadn't even drunken excessively. He had half of a beer. Something chemically affected in a night and day style. Is that tied with addiction or is that a completely separate subject, would you say?

I would honestly say that the people that I've met who have an addiction or a problem with alcohol would fall into that category where it really does have a profound effect on people's personality. And I would say, you know, there are some people that you see and they can drink and drink and drink and you know that they're drunk, but they sort of what you would call a happy, you know, Fun loving drunk person. But for people like me, for example, who nine times out of ten drink would bring out a sadness in me and definitely further down the line, aggression and anger. So I think there are people who even a small amount of alcohol can really change their personality and it should ring alarm bells. But nobody around them really wants to mention it because it's embarrassing and it's almost like a taboo. Nobody wants to say to somebody, I, I don't think alcohol suits you because, you know, what does that person do with that?

I wonder, did we just kind of hope it would go away or they'll notice on their own?

I think people do, especially from my experience, you know, the people around you who love you, they do hope it'll go away. An alcoholic will always put bad nights drinking down to something else. Another problem. Yeah, I was drinking because I was stressed that day. I'd had a bad day, you know, it won't happen again. And people around person will believe that and want to believe it, want to not. They're sort of treading on eggshells. They don't want to upset the person. So for years it'll be brushed under the carpet.

You know, I remember so when I was a kid, I got in trouble and, you know, left school and ran away from home. And I, I lived in a party house with kids and adults. You know, that's all we did all day was party and do drugs. And there was one guy particular who, and I was like 15 and I remember him telling me the merits of beer and how you can get as much calories as you need to survive without eating from beer. And he was really proud of this. His proof was himself. He'd go for weeks without eating. And one time, I remember I was sleeping on the couch with the girl I was dating at the time. And he got up and he tripped over me and he broke the table and there was glass everywhere and he's rolling around, he couldn't get up. And he had no ambition to seek help, no interest in change, no even awareness of a problem that he's willing to face, whether it's tucked down unconsciously or consciously one way or another. But you hit a point where you decided that you wanted to change. And I have to ask you, because there's two questions. What was your absolute rock bott moment? And why did you choose to change? You didn't whimsically say, oh, I got to stop this. You're like, no, you dedicated yourself and did it.

But I'd had lots of sort of False dawns, false starts with that. Over the years, there would be times when I thought if I'd upset somebody when I'd had a drink, or if I'd had an accident, split my head open and broken a rib when I'd fallen down, I would think, maybe I need to cut down. So over the years, there were times when alarm bells rang where I would think, right, I'm, you know, I'm doing something here. And it's. In the earlier days, it would be things like I would test if I could go, say, a month without drink, and then I would prove that I could. But then alcohol, I do sort of. In my book, I liken it to the. The dark shadows in Ghost that creep out, creep out, and. And their ultimate goal is to, you know, drag you to hell. If I went a few weeks without a drink, they would start creeping out and whispering in my ear, and, you know, you obviously don't have a problem. And then, you know, further on, I would do things like go to Alcoholics Anonymous. I went to my doctor so many times and had counseling. I went. I paid for lots of different therapies. So I. There were things that happened through those years that were serious enough to make me address the problem. But it would always. Alcohol would always convince me eventually that, oh, you don't have a problem. You know, you haven't had a drink for a few weeks, you're fine. You overreacted. So my real rock bottom came when, you know, I'd. My real rock bottom came even after I. Things like waking up in hospital and not knowing how I got there. On a drip. On a drip, even. That didn't stop me from drinking. My rock bottom came when I thought, I cannot beat this. I tried everything, and I was really ill. My husband and son didn't live with me anymore. I thought, this is it. This is going to kill me. This is killing me.

So they left.

Yeah, well, luckily they. For them. I suppose it was almost a mercy for them that they didn't have to say, you know, we're leaving. Although my husband admitted afterwards that that was his intention. His job took him away, working away, and my son went to university. So. But they'd been, you know, it really escalated very quickly. And I would say the three years before I hit my absolute rock bottom and their life was just hell. They. The families of alcoholics sort of adapt and things become normalized. So they would just let me sleep and sleep off a hangover and avoid me at all costs because I was just a vile person. So My rock bottom. I was literally on my own, and I was very ill. And it was when I realized I can't beat it. I'd had my last attempt at Alcoholics Anonymous and doing the 12 steps, and I'd say. And I'd already been in rehab a couple of times, and it was the most lonely, frightening feeling. And I really thought, this is it. I'm going to die.

Wow. And I remember, I think, that you had a business at one point in the past as well. And, you know, I have to wonder what the implications might have been on. I mean. I mean, like, how do you summarize the implications of alcoholism on family, on your business, on money in general, you know, social life? Like, the word just destructive comes to mind for everything. But what would you call it?

I was going to say it destroys everything. It fools you at the beginning, that, you know, it makes you more confident it's harmless. But because it made it easier for me to visualize it as this sort of evil entity, it has the sole aim of destroying everything, destroying your relationships and ultimately taking your life. And I did set up a business. I didn't realize at the time, but it was at a time when alcohol was starting to take over my life anyway. But I still function that, you know, that you hear about functioning alcoholics. There are people amongst us who were turning up to meetings probably, you know, topped up with alcohol. And that. That was me. And I look back and I know that the business would have done so much better had I not been drinking. It had a lot of promise. And one of the things now is that I. I've had to, you know, come to terms with that and accept that and not look back and be full of regret and anger and sadness because, you know, it is what it is. But alcohol ultimately will take everything from a person. It is so sad because nobody ever imagines that they'll get to that point. And I think that's the point of my book, to show just how. How it does progress and how it does take everything from you. And that's why I didn't want to. My book certainly doesn't glamorize anything about drinking. It is a real. You know, this is what potentially could happen to you. And I wanted people to maybe spot where they were on that path, because it does progress. It might be at different rates for different people, but it will ultimately take everything.

Yeah. I mean, I've never experienced alcoholism myself, but I talk to people that have gone through this. And I have one more question for you before we Take a short break. You said it when you had your business, that this was after alcohol had started to creep in. Like, how long do you think, in hindsight, how long do you think you were addicted to alcohol before you realized it?

I think for years I used it for the reason of being confident around people. There were also things, things I felt inadequate or inferior around people from my childhood, and I think that comes in my book. And also talking to other people with problems with alcohol, there's usually something that you're trying to block out or you're trying to change by yourself. Yeah, it went on for a long, long time before. Years, real issue.

So years and years, like, you think, like. Yeah, it.

Like I say, it settles into your life in a really subtle way and it becomes normal little things that ring alarm bells. You brush them off or you blame them on something else. I, you know, ashamed to say that. There were lots of times I would blame my behavior on mental health issues. And I think a lot of people do that. They would rather blame anything other than alcohol because they're so frightened that people will make them stop drinking. So you almost become protective of your alcoholism.

Right? I can see what you mean. And I'm thinking now, I mean, I guess to me, I always thought that alcoholism would be like a branch of mental illness. Would you say that that's right? Or is it a separate subject completely?

I think alcoholism causes a lot of. Especially anxiety. I think a lot of people who drink maybe too much, who maybe, you know, don't consider themselves an alcoholic, aren't. Aren't doing hair of the dog on a morning or drinking through the day. Alcohol, when you're withdrawing from it, even in the sort of smallest way, will cause anxiety. So I've spoken to a lot of people who thought they've had anxiety and it was really just because they were drinking too much. Yeah, I think addiction, I mean, it's a very complex area. But I think, you know, you talked right at the beginning about the effect that alcohol has chemically in your brain. I think sometimes, you know, if you took the alcohol away, person wouldn't have the issues that they put down to mental health issues.

Okay, interesting. So we're going to come back from this short break and I want to talk about three things I want to talk about. If I understand correctly, you're an ambassador of alcohol change in the uk And I think also you're the House of Lords Commission on Alcohol Harmony. And I'd love to hear how the book ties in with all of this. So those three things when we come back from this short break. Thank you for checking out my podcast From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. I would love to ask you a question. I would love your feedback, please, on this book that I'm writing right now called the Standing Spot. It's about my own personal journey through some of my most difficult times as a kid, dealing with peer pressure and bullying, gangs, violence, drugs and being arrested and my recovery out of it before even figuring out what my real time business was going to be. This was, this is just a story of a child who struggled and survived and it's my story and I'd love to get your feedback, please. I have the intro and prologue available for download right now on my website. Just check out standingspot.com just standingspot.com will direct you exactly to the free section that you can download the intro and the prologue. And please send me an email. Just let me know what you think. I'm trying to figure out if you think this is resonating with you or if there's some tips or suggestions you have in the writing or the storyline flow. You know, I'm a new author and of course I'm doing this show because I like it and I love it and I want to share and help people and that's the concept of the book as well. So please check it out@standingspot.com and send me a little email. Tell me what you think. It's free and I'd really appreciate your help. So. So thank you for that. And now back to this powerful interview. Okay, we're back now here on from Rock Bottom to Rockin it with Susan, Laurie. And Susan, just before we went on the break there, we were going to talk about basically we're going to move into the rockin it part right now. We're going to move into. All right, you've recovered now. You are with the ambassador of alcohol change in the UK you're with the House of Lords Commission on Alcohol Harm. And you have this amazing book out. So how about you take a pick? Which one do you want to talk about first?

I think the one that I consider really rocking it, I'm very proud of.

That's my favorite one. Bring it out. Yeah, I'm excited.

Is the House of Lords, which I think is the equivalent of your Senate of Canada, Is that correct?

Okay.

Yeah.

You know, I have to admit that I have no idea. I don't know.

It's a really important organization in our country. It's like the second house next to Parliament. And so The House of Lords invited me to be part of this commission on alcohol harm, and that was because of my book. My book has been. I've used as a springboard to knock on people's doors and say, you know, something needs to be done here. It needs to be addressed. Not. There's a lot of emphasis put on prevention of alcoholism, which is rightly so, a lot of education on drinking less and on pricing of alcohol. But there isn't a lot that's done about the treatments for alcohol. And when I had been a few years sober and realized that it wasn't just I wasn't just sober, that alcohol never even crossed my mind, and the treatment that I had had was so profound that it had given me this freedom from alcohol forever. I wanted to share it. I wanted other people who were in the same position that I was to have access to this treatment. And it's definitely a pay it forward moment for me, as this is for you, because I tried every treatment available, and I don't know what the situation is where you are. But here, if you. If you worried about your drinking and you go to your doctor, there is, you know, you're advised to go to Alcoholics Anonymous, you're sent for counseling, you might go to a hypnotherapist. But the main treatments, you know, haven't changed. And for them, for a lot of people, they don't work. And I'd had this treatment that I'd paid for after being in rehab and going through a. That had changed my life. Because the thing is, with alcoholism, or like you said, alcohol is everywhere. When I was, say, going to AA or when I'd been in rehab and I was sober for a few months afterwards, alcohol is still on your mind. And it's very draining. It takes up a lot of your energy. You're still using willpower every day not to pick up that first drink. And my treatment has removed that. So I have complete freedom from it. And I wanted this treatment to be available. So I was, you know, making sort of a pest of myself, really. And I thought, I'm going to start at the top. I'm going to the top people in our National Health Service. I'm going to the top people in government who are dealing with alcohol. And I just kept knocking on doors and making a nuisance of myself. And in the end, and I sent my book to, you know, so many different people. And then I was in this commission on alcohol harm, which hasn't happened for years, where, you know, they got together, experts from all different fields and thought, you know, look at alcohol in the United Kingdom, look at the damage it's doing and coming up with recommendations to address that. And so I was invited to give evidence about my experience, but also to propose recommendations. And so I'm. That that's ongoing. And I'm determined that, you know, people who were suffering like I was and like, you know, there are lots of them and even more of them because of lockdown and coronavirus, people have been drinking more at home. That I'm hoping that there will be changes and that the actual treatments that are available to people suffering with alcoholism will be addressed and updated.

So you're essentially in a position of supporting major change in the uk and it's hard to quantify just how many people are going to be benefiting from your input and your initiative and your dedication to the project here. It's almost entire, right? It's countrywide at that point.

Yes. And what I'm so proud of and you inviting me on here, it shows you that you can't, you know, for anyone out there who is really feeling hopeless and in the depths of despair, I've gone from feeling like that and thinking I was going to die to then, you know, get into a stage where I wasn't drinking. But now I'm using my experience to hopefully make changes. And if you told me that when I was in the depths of, you know, my drinking at my rock bottom, I wouldn't have believed you. And it's to me, I just, I just want people, anyone out there who, who is feeling hopeless, you know, it's never ever too late. And you should never give up trying to find your solution because miracles happen.

You know, there's people listening right now might be having their own rock bottom moment. Maybe it's with alcohol, maybe it's with something else. And the concept of wow, this doesn't have to last forever or wow, I could actually could have a rockin it moment next year or even this year. I could be having a life that I'm proud of. For some people, that's difficult to even accept as a possibility.

Right.

When hope starts to narrow down and almost flow flicker in and out. You know, it's in those moments that it's the hardest to believe that there is going to be light at the end of the tunnel. And what do you say to those people? I mean, sometimes they're the hardest ones to talk to, right? They're just so stuck. They're so deep in that pit they can't even hear what's going on and I have to relate to myself. I mean, in some of my rock bottom moments, like it didn't matter what anyone said, I was almost pessimistic. Anytime someone offered me a bit of hope and I was having my rock bottom moments, I would explain, I would argue with why they're wrong and why there's no hope. To what end? I don't even know. It's not a conscious process. But how do you people, what do you say to those people that are that deep?

I think when you're in it that deep, I think a lot of, a lot of the emotions are based on fear and you know, there's the hopelessness. But with you, you're in a real place of fear by then. Fear of facing the people that you've hurt. Fear of, you know, how do I even start to fix this? You know, say, say you do remove with me the alcohol. How do I even start to fix my life? How do I start to make amends with the people that have hurt? And what I would say is the people that matter in your life will be kind. It is never too late to make those amends. So if you, you know, rather than thinking, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get over this and I'm going to do this in a year's time or this in two years, just focus on the now, focus on the people who matter. And if you're feeling that hopeless and you're frightened of how they can, you know, facing up to all of the things you've done, what I said to myself on the morning that I, you know, I was massively hurt, Well, I was probably, I was definitely still drunk because I was sort of drinking over a 24 hour period. Then in and out of consciousness. I just thought to myself, no matter what happens, if I don't pick up another drink, nothing will ever be as bad as this feeling now. It can only get better. So even when things are bad now, I say to myself, but nothing will ever be as bad as that feeling of when I'd had a drink and I'd upset everyone or I, you know, I put things in, I always compare things to that. So I thought at that moment in time, if I don't have a drink again, nothing will ever be as bad as that feeling. And start with, you know, little steps like that don't, don't think too big. But the, the important thing that I've learned is that the people that really matter in your life, they, they will be kind. And that that is a really powerful thing that, you know, no matter how. How much you've hurt people, there will always be somebody that will give you a chance. It might take a while. And believe me, especially with my son who, you know, his teenage years, you know, with it with a drunk mother were so embarrassing for him, on top of everything else, on top of the worry about me, you know, he got to the stage where he probably hated me. And it did take time for him to actually believe that this time it had worked because I promised so many times. But there's nothing will ever be as bad as your rock feel, as bad as your rock bottom, right?

And usually on the show here, I ask people, how did you know that you finally crossed the moment and crossed, overcame this obstacle? Right? And I think for you, though, it sounds like literally it was this special treatment finally. And if I understand correctly, you're saying that by doing that treatment, boom, that was the magic bullet. Usually there's no magic bullets when I talk to people on the show here, but it sounds like in your specific case, you found one. Is that fair?

That is fair. And I feel confident to shout it from the rooftops because I'd gone through so many other treatments. I'd been to Alcoholics Anonymous so many times. I'd been in rehab. I had counseling over and over again. I'd seen five different hypnotherapists. I'd spent thousands of pounds of other people's money, our money, on different treatments. So I can say with some authority that I tried so many things, that this treatment works. And it's the fact that I'm not using, I'm not noticing alcohol. I don't use willpower anymore. It's removed it completely from my life without having to go to weekly meetings or without having to say, my husband, you know, he can't have a beer in front of me. He does. So, yeah, the treatment was. It was like a miracle. But a lot of people find it hard to believe. And I think once, you know, doing this work with the House of Lords, doing, being involved with Alcohol Change uk, this treatment will become more widely available and it'll be a game changer.

So there you have it. The magic bullets do exist. And at the same time that you're saying that, I'm also trying to imagine what sort of mental toughness you would have had to have to continue attempting different methods and different possible solutions. And how many different attempts did you do? Can you quantify that was like five or was like uncountable because you had to go through a lot, to finally find that one. And that makes the magic bullet. But not even a magic bullet anymore. It's the result. It's like that old saying. Anytime you feel really, really lucky, think about how much work you had to do to get there.

Yeah. Yeah. What I would say about the different treatments that traditionally used for alcoholism, because that's what I know. Talking therapies and in rehab, a lot of the. We did group for therapy, we did counseling. Ultimately, you were sent out and told to go to a 12 step meeting as well. I think the problem was that it's still. They. They still rely on the person's willpower. And, you know, with alcohol and Alcoholics Anonymous attending weekly meetings. So with. Alcohol is relentless. And, you know, we were talking about before, it wants to destroy you. It whispers in your ear, especially when you're with groups of people. For example, in a 12 step meeting or in rehab, you compare yourselves to others. You think, I'm not as bad as her, or I'm not as bad as him. And it's whispering to you all of the time saying, yeah, you're not as bad as them. You know, you're not an alcoholic. So because these treatments rely on willpower, alcohol wears you down. It's always in your head. It's tiring. It's relentless. And so, yeah, I tried all of these treatments. Then alcohol would convince me that I didn't have a problem. Then it would escalate, and the next disaster or accident or upset would be worse than the last one. And then it's like a horrible, boring, tedious cycle. So, yeah, I just, like, I'm not unique. So many people do this. They. They go to rehab, they go to counseling, they go to Alcoholics Anonymous, and then they relapse, and then they start again. But this treatment that I had has just crushed it. It's just crushed any thought of alcohol. But it also dealt with all of the underlying reasons why I was drinking. But it was done in a day, in one day, which is the appealing thing for, you know, governments that, you know, the money that would save when they're sometimes sending people through our National Health Service into rehab for 12 weeks. So it's. The ears prick up when, you know, you talk about cost savings as well. But it's. I'm not unique. I don't. I, you know, I'm not special in any way. There are so many people repeating this cycle that I went through over and over again for years.

So now that you're recovered, you've got Your book out, you're working with the House of Lords Commission and you're making positive change. What does a day in your shoes look like today? What does it look like? What are you up to on a high level? I understand what you're up to, but what does that look like in a practical way? You wake up and then you're doing what?

I'm speaking to people who can ultimately make the decisions, who hold the pots of money, who will give this treatment a trial because. And I totally understand it, and it'll be the same where you are, you know, you've got to have proof, you've got to have evidence base. And, you know, they. I might be very passionate about it, but, you know, they're not just going to suddenly say, oh, yeah, we'll roll this out to everyone. So. So I'm, every day, I am working towards finding the right people to make decisions at the minute. All of the recommendations that this House of Lords Commission has put together is going to be launched in a few weeks. So I'll be speaking to MPs, our members of Parliament, I'll be speaking to people in the National Health Service. So I'm preparing for that. And I have to admit, it's. It is quite daunting because these are powerful people, but at the same time, I feel so strongly about this. There are lots and lots of people struggling and dying unnecessarily, and if they can have what I have, that will just make me so happy. And it is. I don't want to sound like I'm saintly or anything. It's because I feel so lucky that I'm wanting to pay it forward.

Yeah.

So, yeah, my day is spent knocking on doors.

I understand you. I mean, the whole motivation for the show is for me to pay it back for it. I mean, when I was a kid, I struggled a lot. Like I said, I ran away from home and from school and got arrested a couple times and was living in a difficult situation. And there were some moments where I thought my future was looking grim. In some ways, there was a particular guy who reached out and really helped me give me a chance. And I remember he said, he said, I don't care what you did in the past. All I care about is what you do today and what you do tomorrow. And that was the starting point. It was the first time someone really reached out. And I'll remember that guy forever. And now that I'm older and far, far past all of those challenges, I look at, okay, well, what could I do to give back. And here's the show. And coincidentally, I named it From Rock Bottom. Just like you did From Rock Bottom.

Yeah, exactly. And that's what I wanted to say to you about, about your podcast. When I was in the depths of despair, I would. I would search for people who'd recovered from alcoholism. You know, ultimately, it was ultimately, you know, famous people because that they were the people that you find on the Internet, you know, people like Jamie Lee Curtis or Robert Downey Jr. And, and I think if they can, you know, how did they do it? So you putting together these podcasts, people will be searching for stories of people who've been at rock bottom and who got out of it. Because when you're there, you feel like you're not going to. So what you're doing is brilliant.

Well, thank you. I appreciate that. And as we come back from this final little break, I want to wrap up by getting some insights from you on where you think alcohol is going and society's interpretation and interact interaction with alcohol is going specifically because marijuana is being legalized. And so there's obviously some changes going on that when we come back from this short little break. Thank you so much for sharing this show and spreading the love. Every time you click that share button or put it on your social media, it makes a big difference to those who listen to it, to the guests that I have on here as well, and to me personally, this is a passion project. And so all of your help, sending me feedback, sending me an email, clicking that contact me button on my website, all of that is amazing and it really touches my heart because when I was little and struggled, I dropped out of school, I got into drugs and violence. It was very difficult and I hit rock bottom. My own rock bottom in that context was when I was around 17 years old and I thought I was going to jail for a long time. I didn't know what was going to happen. And I got out because people reached out to me and helped me. People picked me back up and gave me motivation to move forward, just like you're hearing in these interviews. So this really is a passion project for me and I'd love it if you checked out my book as well. I tell my whole story on there. You can find it on my website, ericgilbertwilliams.com just click on my book. I would love for you to download a free copy of the intro and prologue. It's there right now anytime. There's an audio version as well. And now we're going to go back to the interview. Talk to you guys soon. We're back now here on From Rock Bottom to Rockin it with Susan Laurie. She's with the House of Commission, sorry, the House of Lords Commission on alcohol harm in the uk. Your book is From Rock Bottom to Sober Forever. Remember to check that book out on Amazon and share it with a friend. There'll be a link on this episode show notes on my website to directly contact with Susan. Actually, that brings me to a question, Susan, if people want to contact you and chat with you a little bit about this stuff, where would you direct them? I think you have a personal website, is that right? Or LinkedIn.

And it is soberforever.co.uk.

Okay, so we'll put a link to that website, soberforever.co.uk is that right? Yeah, we'll put a link so people can find you and anyone listening right now can reach out and ask a question or get directed in the right ways. Susan, where are we going as a society here? I mean, marijuana is legalized. People that were arrested for marijuana crimes are being released in some cases. I have so many mixed feelings about being arrested when I was a kid for marijuana and now I wouldn't have been. But alcohol is this deeply ingrained part of our culture, type of substance, and it is hurting a lot of people. I mean, we're seeing it's becoming more and more difficult to drink and drive and like the limits are going down almost everywhere. What do you think the future looks like, say in 10 or 20 years with alcohol? I mean, you're in a position to know. So I'm curious.

I agree with you that it is so ingrained in our society and our culture. It is associated with everything from celebrations to Christmas to like I said, it's in restaurants, recipes, it's everywhere. So I think the chances of, you know, laws being tightened around alcohol, especially here in the uk, I don't think that will happen. One interesting thing that I speaking to experts about alcohol is the much younger generation are actually drinking less and which is, which is great news.

That's interesting. I didn't know that.

The, you know, the say about 20 rolls. But you know, time will tell when they, you know, maybe the stresses of life or whatever. But I, I think all we can do is educate people more because I think the majority of people, because it is so socially acceptable and it does seem so innocent, they don't realize how addictive it is or can be. And also I think if I'd realized that once it does have a grip, how Difficult it is to then be beat it, to stop drinking. It is really, really difficult. And I can. One thing that really sticks in my mind from when I was in rehab was that they told us quite matter of factly that only 3 in 10 of us would beat it. That it is just accepted that once you have alcoholism, it progresses and it will kill, you know, seven out of ten of those people.

Wow.

So I think if I'd known how tough it was to beat. But I also think if people, because it's so socially acceptable, people need to look at their own, the way they socialize, the company that they keep, because like everything in life, if you like doing a certain thing, you gravitate towards people who will make that normal and acceptable. So if you like to drink excessively, you gravitate towards people and you think that they're your friends. And one thing I certainly learned was, you know, when you stop drinking or we try not to drink, a lot of friends melt away. So I think with alcohol, it's always going to be here. But people need to be educated in just how dangerous it can be. And I still think people don't realize that.

Could you tell us a little bit about what it was like to maybe, for lack of a better word, reunite with your husband and your son having beaten alcoholism? Like, what was that like to have that dynamic change in such a positive way again?

Well, I can remember when I found this treatment, there was a waiting list of about, I think it was, it was over a month, but I was quite excited about it, saying, you know, this time, you know, I, at this time it's going to work. I didn't know it was going to work, but trying to convince them and they were like, yeah, yeah, they'd heard it all before. So when I went for the treatment in the, you know, few days afterwards, when I realized that I wasn't thinking of alcohol, I was, I was quite scared to tell them that, you know, I think there's really been a shift here because I, I could tell that they, they, they had gone beyond the end of their tether. They had had enough of me.

So wait, wait, they lost hope while you kept it?

Yeah. Oh, wow. Because, you know, I, I was, I was, like I said, pretty vile. I could be really vile and hurtful. And, you know, you can't stay in love, you know, as a husband or a wife with an alcoholic because you've lost the real person. You know, you might stay out of some sort of loyalty or. But yeah, they'd both really switched off to me. But I know now that they, deep down they really hoped that it would work. But because I tried so many other things, only time, it was only through time that they, they sort of gradually realized that, yeah, she's, she's not drinking, she's not hiding it, she's not proof in actions.

Yeah.

And well, it's a bit, especially you know, with my son because I've only got one, one child. And you know, I used to say he's my life in rehab. And they'd say, well, he can't be because he's still drinking and you're hurting him. But which shows you how powerful it is. And my relationship with Nat, with him now, it's so strong. He's so proud of me. Sorry, I get emotional.

I am too. I'm an only child singer mom here and yeah, we had a reuniting after I came back and yeah, no, I'm getting teary eyed with you.

And I know that I can't get those years back. There's a lot of damage that I did and there's a lot I can't even remember. So I've learned not to look back to that and just to create a new future for us. And things are really good. Thank you.

I'm really glad to hear that this connects with this philosophy that I have where in my own words, we can't change anything. We have no control over what happened in the past. It's done. But we have absolute control on what happens today, what our next choice is going to be. And even if every choice up until now was maybe a bad one, let's just say for whatever and you can interpret that however you want. If every decision up to now was a bad one, being here today, having breath come into our lungs means there's another choice that we can take and that one can be different. And to me, that's really powerful.

Yeah, absolutely. And like I said before, no matter what, when you've been at rock bottom, nothing can ever feel as bad as that if you just keep trying to be the best version of you. And like you said, every day you make choices, you move forward because you can't change the past.

Yeah. As we wrap up here, two last questions. One is so short story question. When I had one of my past companies, one of my employees ended up getting addicted to cocaine. When he started working for me, he wasn't addicted. And I didn't know this until afterwards, but he had had a lot of issues with cocaine before meeting me. And after basically making a bunch of money with me. He kind of relapsed, and he basically stole one of my vans and all my equipment and disappeared. Didn't show up for work, didn't answer messages, and then finally just dumped it all on the front lawn and told me to pick it up because I had to threaten the police at some point. Like, look, you know, I had to text him on the phone that I gave him, which he stole. I said, look, I have to call the police. I have no choice, man. You're my friend, you're my employee. All this stuff. What's going on? So he just dumped everything on the front lawn, threw the keys somewhere and says, come and get it. All right? So I came and got it. And of course, we didn't talk for a long time. He must have gone through some serious rehab. I remember one day I got a letter, and it was from him, and it went into a detailed description. Not crazy detail, but enough description. And it's clear that enough effort went into that that there was something happened, something changed. And he had told me that he had elapsed and he went deep into this world, and now he had come out, and this was his way to try and make amends, if not for me, then at least for him. In his own effort to apologize and take ownership, I did this, and now I'm here to fix it. And I can only imagine how difficult that must have been, to go back and look at the damage that was done and then have this attitude that I'm going to fix it. I know I'll fix it. I'm not going to stop until it's fixed and then see it done. Could you tell me a little bit about that?

About making amends?

Yeah, about fixing the damage. You know, like, the damage done doesn't have to be damaged forever. Is that fair to say?

Yeah, absolutely. But one thing that was important to me, that I did take away from Alcoholics Anonymous, was it is so important to make amends. And I. There were a lot of things, hurtful things, that I'd said and done to people that, you know, I have been in touch with those people and said, this is me now, and I'm so sorry for, you know, the way I behaved. But as well as that, there are people that I really hurt that I lost along the way, that I know that me getting in touch with them would purely be for me and that they won't want to hear from me. So I have to respect that as well. So that does fill me with a lot of sadness that some Things I did I won't be able to make amends for. But I know that I'm sort of putting that other person's feelings first. And I did take that away from Alcoholics Anonymous because it was one of the important lessons. We only make amends if it won't hurt the person more.

Okay, fair. Gotcha. My parting question for you here, Susan, is if we were to go backwards in time and you were to talk to yourself in your rock bottom moment, when it was the most extreme of the addiction, if you were able to go back in time for, you know, 60 seconds and be able to say something to yourself back then, what would you say?

I would say don't give up. Don't give up. And don't be frightened of. It's that fear of facing people. People will be kind. But my overriding message is don't give up. There's always something out there, and there's always something worth living for. And, you know, just because some things haven't worked to fix you, there's always something out there that will. You've just got to keep searching and find the strength. So, yeah, don't give up. And you're worth it.

Don't give up. I mean, that's really what it boils down to for me, any rock bottom moment. And I can think of a few right now in business and personal also with drugs. I mean, that would have been the one thing that would have prevented me from being here today, hanging onto that little bit of hope and just doing what I can today. So I hope everyone listening to the show right now remember that you do have a choice today that you can make. There are solutions out there. There are people who have been here, and, you know, they're a different. We're a different situation than you are. Sure. But I certainly understand what rock bottom means, and Susan understands what it means. And it's fair to say we both believe in you. We believe that you can get through this. So for everyone listening, I hope that you share this episode with your friends. Listen to it again to just, you know, nail down some of these points and remember to check out Susan's book on Amazon. From Rock Bottom to Sober Forever. Susan, do you have any parting words here before we sign off?

Just. Thank you so much. And just to reiterate what you said, you are worth it. Anyone out there is at rock bottom. You're worth it and don't give up.

Thank you, Susan, again, for coming on the show. From rock bottom to rockin it. I hope you have a great day and let's keep in touch and let's maybe have you back on the show at some point in the future and recap on how things have evolved from now until next time you come on.

Love to. Thank you.

You all right? Thanks. Bye for now.

Bye now. Bye.

And that's it, my friends, for this episode. We will see you next time. Please send me an email, say hello, give me some feedback, let me know what you think, give me some tips and suggestions. I'd love to hear from you. Also, please share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, doesn't matter. Just get it out there. I really appreciate it. And we'll see you next time on from rock bottom to rocking it. Have a rocking it.