30: NHL Hall of Famer & Child Sex Abuse Survivor // The Story of Sheldon Kennedy

What I learned, I think, Eric, was that I had a lot of work to do on getting healthy. Like, you can't just tell your story and boom, you're better. I mean, there was a lot of years of wreckage there. Not just wreckage of what happened to me, but the way that it set me up to live a life that, you know, had me hurt other people through addiction. I think the whole thing is geared on action. We've got to take action to get better.

Welcome to From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. I'm your host, Eric Gilbert Williams, and this is the PODC where we explore personal stories of people who hit absolute rock bottom, then got back up, wiped off the dust, kicked failure to the curb, and now they're rocking it like you'd never believe if you didn't hear it. Live right here we cover subjects in business, sports, and life in general. If you like this podcast, please share it. These interviews are intended to inspire, to motivate, to give hope and vision. So please share this episode with someone who needs it. Use your Instagram account, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, hand signals. Trained pigeon sent smoke signals up in the air. Use Morse code, whatever you like. Just share the love and share this episode. Also, email me anytime. Podcasterrickdilbertwilliams.com Send me questions you would like to have asked of future guests and I will incorporate them. Or just send me some suggestions on how to run a better podcast. Or just say hello, I'd love to hear from you. That's podcastericilbertwilliams.com I know you're going to love today's interview, so let's get started with us here today on From Rock Bottom to Rockin it is eight year NHLer, member of the Order of Canada, Calgary Citizen of the year 2013. And you guys know I'm from Calgary too, so that's particularly important and special for me. Sheldon Kennedy is also the man who inline skated all the way across the country of Canada. And if you've not been to Canada, you might not fully apprec how broad of a country this is. If you didn't see him playing professional hockey, you might have seen him on OPRAH or on NBC's Nightline. Or maybe you've seen his documentary or the movie that was made around his story. Or maybe you read his book called why I Didn't say Anything available on Amazon. I encourage you to check it out. It's a powerful book and without further ado, Sheldon, welcome to From Rock Bottom to Rocknet. I'm really glad to have you here. How you doing?

Yeah, thanks for having me, Eric. I look forward to our conversation.

Yeah, I was just checking out one of your YouTube videos here. It came out a few months ago and I think you had a special award that came up recently, is that right?

Being inducted into the Canada Sports hall of Fame.

That'll do it. Yeah.

Who would have thunk, eh? Like, you know, as I'm sure you can relate, there was times in my life where I'd be the last person people would have thunk that would have ever been inductee into Canada Sports hall of Fame. But you know, rock bottom to rock in it, I guess, eh?

Exactly. That's it. And sometimes for me, I'll speak for myself anyways, for me, when I'm having my rock bottom moment, sometimes I feel like where is the light at the end of the tunnel and is it a train? You know, and when is things going to turn around? What I'm learning is that it comes from the most unexpected areas at the most unreasonable times. And all of a sudden life just turns around and it's good again. And it just gives me this crazy perspective of what is a rock bottom and what is rocking it and how much of that is internal in our own heads versus external. And I don't have those solid answers, but yeah, it's so cool to see that you hit that and you got the hall of Fame. You got a building named after you too, in Swift Kern, I think now too. A nice rink, right?

Yeah, we have a, there's a rink named after, named after me in Swift. And you know, but going back to what you were talking about, you know, I think that just my perception of rock bottom to rock and it is, is like, you know, when you, when you hear the words rock bottom to rock and it like there's a, you know, that's a big, that's a big curve. And I think, you know, my, what I've learned over the years is just, you know, I want to keep, I want to keep my, my, my graph design more to like a very gradual. I don't want to get too high when we're really rocking it and I don't want to try and I try not to get too low and just kind of ride through it, work my way through it when I'm in those low spots. And I think, you know, being able to find the things that work for us or for me was critical. Right. And being able to practice them, I think, I think being, you know, mentally well and being able to understand the way we feel and being able to, you know, I guess, you know, find things that work took for me, took practice, right? And I had to practice them every day to get better at it. Right? And, you know, and I can't just do things, you know, for two days and say it doesn't work. This is an everyday thing that I need that helps me in the high, the high times and the low times. And that's been critical.

You know, when I'm doing my own introspection and observing my mental state in these highs and lows, what I've noticed when I get on a big high, I hear myself and I start to get a little cocky. And I don't mean for it, it just happens. And the confidence comes almost too strong, too fast. And I've noticed in the past when I was younger that that cockiness would just ruin the high, you know, it would sabotage the deal or whatever. And similarly, in the lows, I would notice myself get a little pessimistic, which just makes it even worse. Right. So I like what you're saying about keeping that calm, even to a degree, just kind of keeping things in check. But really it's about knowing yourself, I think. What do you think?

Yeah, I, you know, I, you know, I just found that, you know, my lows were really low and my highs were really high. And I think, you know, when I was, you know, when I was still in my addictions and, you know, struggling to get, you know, work through all the trauma that, you know, was been in my life at that point, I. I could handle the bad things. The bad things were normal for me. Right. So it wasn't. It wasn't about the bad things. It was about. It was about not on. It was about being very uncomfortable with. With awards and recognition and acknowledgement of doing well. That was super uncomfortable for me. And, you know, I had to really learn to just accept that was a big piece of it, just acceptance and, you know, I don't know. I can't put a finger on it. All I know is that, you know, the more I practice the things that work or the tools, you know, that I've identified as being, you know, things that work in my life to kind of keep me going and help me work through the difficult times and help me enjoy the good times, the better I get and the better. Better I am. And when I step away from those or I get away from it a little bit, you know, I can. I can find myself, you know, starting to get back down under the water. So you Know, but that's come from a lot of years of, you know, working it right. Like, to me this is, I think the whole thing is geared on action. We've got to take action to get better. We can't just think our way out of it. And that's just the way I was taught and kind of something that stuck with me.

So there's people listening to this right now that know you and there's others that maybe don't. Maybe they don't watch hockey as much as other people and follow that story. So if you could, in your own words, if you could help and share your story here so that everyone understands, you know, what the hell happened in your rock bottom moments.

Well, I mean, I grew up in a really small town in Canada, kind of like, you know, Midwest little town of 500 people. And we had a hockey scout at the time who became our coach, but he was also a serial sexual predator and he groomed me and my family and then he ended up sexual abusing me for many years. And I disclosed the abuse in 1998. But my life was marred by treatment centers and just addiction related, alcohol and drug related problems. And you know, and what I know today directly impacted and you know, from what happened to me and you know, I think, you know, I was up against this hockey Coach who In 1986, we were in a bus accident in junior hockey. Four of my teammates died. The bus accident, Graham James was his name was the pedophile who was our hockey coach after that accident became hockey man of the year internationally around the world. He was like hockey man of the year. So here's a 15 year old kid coming out of a little town trying to, you know, back in, you know, 1986, you know, 84, 85, 86, we didn't talk about these issues, we didn't talk about mental health, you know, any type of addiction issues. It was like, yeah, they went to get dried out, right? Like that's kind of was the conversation. So, you know, I felt very chopped. And anyway, I, you know, went through, I played, you know, with the Detroit Red Wings for five years, Calgary Flames in Boston. And. But through my hockey career, I can't really say I loved it and I enjoyed it because the love of life was sucked out of me. I mean, I stopped dreaming about playing hockey when I met Graham and started, you know, obsessing about suicide and how do I get out of this world and why can't I shut my head off and what's happened to me and how do I Explain this to somebody and why can't I say no? Why do I keep. You know, why do I. Like what. What's happening here? Anyway, in 1990, 1996, I disclosed to the police about what had happened to me, and Graham James pleaded guilty to me, another guy and another guy, and was sentenced to jail. And then he's subsequently pleaded guilty to five other people since our disclosure. My disclosure. But at that point in 1997, my story was the Globe and Mail. So I was newsmaker of the year in our country, so to say the least. I was thrust into this, you know, media frenzy, but I also felt it gave us an opportunity to tell a story around an issue of sexual abuse and addiction that had never really been told before, not that I knew. And that's how I ended up rollerblading across the country. As I picked up the. I picked up the newspaper and the Globe and Mail, and I had a broken. I broke my femur in nine places out at the farm on a quad. And so I was laying there, laid up, and. And I was going down the list, and there was, like, you know, prime ministers, and then there was, like, Gretzky, Mew. Then there was, like, Terry Fox and Rick Hansen. I'm thinking I haven't even done anything, you know, yet. And I'm on this list of newsmaker the year. So, like, if I put on a pair of rollerblades and rollerblade across the country, then, you know, I've got to be able to make some noise. But little did I know that just by telling my story and not dealing with, you know, the issues that, you know, made me drink and the addiction side of it and everything else, and the trauma that came with what happened to me, you know, things almost got worse. And I always tell people that, you know, disclosure. Don't expect miracles after a disclosure of that sort, because there's a lot of work to be done. And I found that out and subsequently had entered two more treatment centers before I got any type of recovery under my belt. But, you know, we've advocated for. For many, many years on these issues. We've changed multiple laws. You know, we've done a lot of work in this space, and that's what I'm proud of. But I think, you know, we could really start doing the work and really, you know, once. Once I got sober, and I could. People ask me all the time, they say, what's the most important thing that you've done? Like, what are you most proud of? Like, the accomplishment Order of Canada. This. That And I'm like getting sober and being healthy, right? And because if I didn't have that, I wouldn't have any of the other stuff.

You didn't ask to be thrust into fame. And you're looking at this list of people that accomplish great things and you were newsmaker of the year and you decided, all right, I'm going to go inline skating.

You know, so I made a decision. I said, well, geez, I haven't really done anything yet. I just told my story and I'm on this list. So I'm going to inline skate across country and you know, and try to go into every community and have conversations. And little did I know I came from the place of not knowing about these issues. And I think most of society didn't really know and we didn't know the magnitude and you know, we were averaging 25 disclosures a day from people. So, you know, and one thing that really stuck with me was that, you know, the time, the place, that the individuals were different, but the impact was very consistent, you know, but I think at the end, what I learned, I think Eric, was that I had a lot of work to do on getting healthy. Like, you can't just tell your story and boom, you're better. I mean, there was a lot of years of wreckage there. Not just wreckage of what happened to me, but the way that it set me up to live a life that, you know, had me hurt other people through addiction. You know, like not showing up at my daughter's birthday party or, you know, watching my daughter, my daughter watching me go to treatment centers or, you know, the relationships that I was in, just, you know, them watching me be self destructive and, you know, so you. There was a whole pile of wreckage that needed to be dealt with. And you know, so subsequently, you know, I went into treatment two more times before I got any length of sobriety. You know, I was 35. So by the time I got sober. And so I spent another five years after that rotoblade, you know, trying to grind through it and, you know, but still running hard, right? And scared. I think it was fear, fear of failure, like, fear that I wasn't able to get, you know, sober and so scared of accountability and just, you know, I just, I didn't, I didn't know how to live any other way because, you know, for my life I ran, ran hard. And I. What I know now, and I know that when as a young kid and you're growing up in, you know, constant stress, toxic stress environments, I mean, we know that your brain gets wired differently and it's, you know, that is the leading contributor to a lot of mental health issues, anxiety, depression. So yeah, I know that now, but it's like, you know, which, but at the time it's just like, what is wrong with me? And the only thing that worked, that was slowly killing me was alcohol and drugs. So anyway, I've been sober and we've, we've done some good things after that, but that's been the most important decision in my life, was to get sober and healthy and to make that decision every day.

Thank you for checking out my podcast From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. I would love to ask you a question. I would love your feedback, please, on this book that I'm writing right now called the Standing Spot. It's about my own personal journey through some of my most difficult times as a kid. Dealing with peer pressure and bullying, gangs, violence, drugs and being arrested and my recovery out of it before even figuring out what my real time business was going to be. This was, this is just a story of a child who struggled and survived and it's my story and I'd love to get your feedback, please. I have the intro and prologue available for download right now on my website. Just check out standingspot.com just standingspot.com will direct you exactly to the free section that you can download the intro and the prologue. And please send me an email. Just let me know what you think. I'm trying to figure out if you think this is resonating with you or if there's some tips or suggestions you have in the writing or the storyline flow. I'm a new author and of course I'm doing this show because I like it and I love it and I want to share and help people and that's the concept of the book as well. So please check it out@standingspot.com and send me a little email. Tell me what you think. It's free and I'd really appreciate your help. So thank you for that. And now back to this powerful interview. Yeah, congratulations. Often in this show, the subject always comes up about having the courage to speak up. And you know, some people here on the show have had really serious addictions and homelessness and you know, hospitalized or suicide attempts and all sorts of powerful and scary stories. And what I'm learning is that speaking up and having that courage to share that story and come forth isn't a one time effort. It's a life changing effort and it's there forever. And I didn't really appreciate that when I first started thinking about it, when I first started telling my own story or hearing other people tell their story, I never thought about it as forever. This will now be part of the narrative and everything that comes with it is almost unavoidable.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, to me, I don't think there's an end game. I think, you know, I think this is something that we work on. I know it's something I have to work on all the time. And this is not about perfect. Like, you know, this is, you know, to me, you know, I mean, recovery is not perfect and you know, recovery and life is up and down and you know, I want to make sure that I'm insulated and prepared for the ups and downs in life because they're going to come, right? And I think, you know, I think that, you know, my goal is to stay insulated so that the downs aren't down, down and the ups aren't up up. Because when I get into that space then I get in trouble, you know. And you know, I think for me probably the biggest thing that I, that I, you know, work on on a daily basis is relationships and trust because I really, with what happened to me because it's not a, it wasn't a stranger. It's really a betrayal of trust. And so, you know, really letting people in, into my life was huge. And you know, when you're, when I was in this space for a long time, it became very lonely because you don't let anybody in because you're so scared that you're going to get hurt because people that you let in, in the past hurt you. And so, you know, that was just a unconscious type of way that I was, you know, entering into relationships. And so that's been a big one, right? Like, you know, really building, building on that and taking the risk to trust again. That's, that's a big one. And you know, being able to have that relationship. I have a 24 year old daughter with her and my partner, we have a two year old son. Love that little guy and what a freaking gift to be able to do that over again. Right? And, but you know, to me it's as the old cliche goes, progress, not perfection. But I truly believe that it's, you know, I'm better today than I was two years ago and you know, and if I know if I keep doing the right things and keep grinding it out, you know, trying to do things that will make me better and healthier, then the odds are pretty good that in two years, I'll be better than where I'm at today. Right. I got to break it down to the lowest common denominator.

Yeah. So there's a couple things in my mind here I want to really unpack. First is for people that are listening and aren't fully familiar with some of the details. Let's just clarify for 30 seconds here. This guy, Graham James, we're talking, if I remember correctly, 300 counts of sexual abuse is what just in your case, that was brought to light. And then there were several other hockey players as well. Theo Fleury, I think, and his cousin, and there's a couple others. So people listening. Let's just put this in comment. We're talking about a guy who probably combined, roughly probably over a thousand instances, he sexually abused teenagers that were put into his care through trust established directly between him and the parents. Right. This is next level twisted to some of the deepest degrees. And I just wanted to make sure that people listening are crystal clear what we're talking about here. With that picture clarified. Do you want to add anything to that, Sheldon? Did I hit it on?

I think that was really. I think you nailed it. And, you know, and I think, see, the thing in, in Canada is that junior hockey players, most of us, leave home at 14 years old, so we're trusted in this person's care. So it's that betrayal of trust. No different than the, you know, such. The Larry Nassar case or, you know, any of those types of cases. I mean, that's, you know, that's what we were. That's what. That's what it was with Graham James. Right.

I had Clint Larchik on the show a while ago, and I don't know if you guys talk at all. I remember he was sharing with me how the press and media that came with what he was going through and the whole incident, the constant reminder and being forced to talk about it over and over again was almost more difficult than maybe going through it. And now I'm thinking about up until now, for months now, I've been encouraging people that are listening to the show to find that courage to speak up and share their story and talk about it with people. What I didn't fully appreciate was what comes next. And you alluded to that specifically. I could even see your facial reaction when I was talking about the awards and stuff. I could almost feel that there was something there. Maybe we could talk just for a second about what it's like to live with that story out in the open. Now, how do we maintain that courage to. Okay, we found the courage to take that step, to let those wounds out to be exposed and healed. And now people keep asking me damn questions about something I don't want to talk about anymore. You know, like, what comes next and how do you kind of maintain that inner strength and that resiliency? You know, when I had another guy, Kevin Hines, on the show who did attempt suicide, he jumped off the bridge here in San Francisco and he survived. And one of the things he said to me was that the mental illness that he has isn't something that's going to be healed. It's not going to go away. The past is the past. So it's not about making it go away or healing. It's about learning how to live with it and have a productive, happy life despite of it. And I'm curious about your thoughts on that subject.

Yeah, you know, I think that, you know, I think that telling our having the courage to talk or to tell your story is, you know, is an important first step, but it's. We got to remember it's a first step. And. But I think sometimes we think it's. It takes us. It's the whole step, like, if we only need one step. And that's what I've learned because I went down that road, too. I'm like, well, I told my story like I should be good, right? And the reality is. But I think. And, you know, I think that, you know, it's. Well, you know what? I. I've been in front of the media for a long, long time, and a lot of cameras, a lot of newspaper articles for probably the last 22 years of my life. But in. In this space, right around this issue. And what I've learned is that when I wasn't healthy, all I could do was talk about Sheldon's story. I found a way out, and I learned how to get out of it. Then I could talk about what we're going to do. Solution focuses around the issues that we wanted to talk about. So it really shifted for me from telling Sheldon's story into. Because it's, you know, there was so much media around Sheldon's story, people got sick of Sheldon's story. So it's like, you know, people looking at Sheldon and Sheldon wanted to, you know, talk about the issue. So we started educating on the issue. So it became not really about Sheldon's story, and it really became about advocating on the issues that we really wanted to. To bring to light. Right. The impact of abuse. All forms of abuse, not just sexual Abuse, Right. And talk to people about the science around that. Because people really didn't understand these issues. They did not connect the dots. Right? And we know that the leading contributor to most of these social problems that we have in society within adulthood or, you know, stem from adverse childhood experience. We know that. So that's what we started doing. Right? And I think that that's, you know, but I don't think you can do that until you get, you know, find a way out of yourself. Because if you're stuck in your place, like when I was stuck in my, you know, kind of when it wasn't real healthy and I wasn't putting a lot of effort into, you know, I just hadn't got there yet. It just. All I could really talk about was how things hurt me. But the more I learned about, and I accepted the fact, the more I could understand it, the more I could explain to people and the more I could talk in general about the issues and how we're going to get out of it. Because to me, advocacy and talking about these issues really have to be rooted in hope, right? And there's gotta be, we've got to give people hope that there's a way out, that there's a way that you can find happiness, that you can find that, you know, those glimpses of this, that peace within, they come very far and few between. But you know, hopefully for me, I try to get them, you know, try to close that gap all the time so I can get more of that, you know, that feeling. But that's what I try to do. And, you know, and I think that, you know, by being healthy and putting my own recovery, number one, it allowed me and just kind of was a natural shift into talking about the issues and got me out of self. But when we're not healthy, we're so self absorbed that we can only talk about self, in my opinion.

Interesting. That makes a lot of sense. It's like it comes back to this old that what we think about is what we bring about. You know, if I think about a thing. I was just having this conversation the other day with my friend. She says that she's a realist, but really it's more like a pessimist looking at all these negative things. Well, a realist will look at the positive too. And then whatever it is that we put our focus on ends up being the experience that we're going to have. When people ask me how I'm doing, hey, Eric, how you doing? What I've learned is if I say I'M doing really well because of XYZ reason. Or if I say, man, I'm not doing too good today for XYZ reason, then whatever answer I give determines how the next 10 minutes are going to go. If you ask me how I'm doing, I say I'm doing great. The next 10 minutes are probably going to have a positive vibe. If you ask me how I'm doing, I say I'm doing bad. The next 10 minutes are going to have a negative. And whatever's going on in the brain ends up becoming the experience is one of the things I'm observing here. The more you're talking about the story, the more it starts to. It's just connected with that subject before. What's the next step after speaking it? What is the next step in healing? And so what do you insert as a thought in order to dislodge that sort of cycle of being focused on maybe the wrong thing?

Yeah, I mean, I think I've come to the realization that basically the only thing I can control is me. Right? So if I want things.

Say that again.

I guess the only thing that I can control is me. And, you know, and, and so that's where I try to keep my focus. And I think that, you know, if I want to change an outcome of if I'm not happy with the way things are going on, you know, whatever project I might be working on, I've got to really look internally and, you know, say, how am I showing up? Right. And I think it's like what you said about, you know, how do you show up when you say this or you say that. Like, I feel if I can show up in a good spot. Well, when people know what I've been through, that gives them hope right off the hop, right? Like, and I think that that's important. And, you know, and I think that, you know, my, my, you know, when we try to educate people and teach people about these issues and, you know, or just talk to people, it's really, you know, we. I try to be blunt, but, you know, and then at the end of the day, like, we can't sit around and wait for somebody to save us. Right? We can't wait for a psychiatrist to save us, a psychology psychologist to save us or whoever. Right, Counselor? I mean, we need to do the work. They can make suggestions. They can give us, you know, a path to go on. But to. What I've learned is that unless I do the work, I'm not getting well. And, and that's kind of, you know, goes with a lot of things in life, not just recovery. And I think, you know, that's kind of where I focus. But, you know, when it's evolved, I don't think I've never really had a plan to say, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that. I'm going to do this. You know, I've kept showing up and I hang out with people that have good recovery in whatever it is. And most of the time what I do know is that whether it's recovery from addiction, whether it's recovery from whatever, when you talk to people about recovery, most of good, healthy recovery is very consistent. Right. Didn't matter. It doesn't matter what the incident might be that you're recovering from or the, you know, the, the illness or whatever it might be. Recovery has been, is quite consistent. Like good, healthy recovery. And that's practice every day and that's keep showing up and you know, like, keep it simple and make sure you're talking to people and you know, like, exercise is important. That's just what I feel. And you know, and I know I've got a good friend of mine who spent the most amount of time in Afghanistan and he was in a role that was a very intense role and you know, he's got, he was impacted, but why can him and I relate to, you know, the impacts of trauma or, you know, PTSD or, you know, yes, I was on a bus accident. But, you know, we came from different impact, impact points. We're very much, we can relate to one another on the way that those things made us feel. And I think that's the consistency of mental health, mental illness, the impacts of trauma. So I think our recovery can't be just so different all the time. I think when you break it down to the lowest common denominator, it's very consistent.

Right. Well, your story is so powerful on so many fronts and we're going to take a short little break right now and as soon as we come back, I want to dive into you're rocking it moments, you know, times when you felt like, you know, you're making progress both with your inner healing and also seeing the positive impact you're having on so many other people out there. And we can talk a little bit what your inline skating experience. I'm really curious about that, that when we come back from this short little break and we'll talk to you soon. Thank you so much for sharing this show and spreading the love. Every time you click that share button or Put it on your social media. It makes a big difference to those who listen to it, to, to the guests that I have on here as well. And to me personally, this is a passion project. And so all of your help, sending me feedback, sending me an email, clicking that contact me button on my website, all of that is amazing and it really touches my heart because when I was little and struggled, I dropped out of school, I got into drugs and violence. It was very difficult and I hit rock bottom. My own rock bottom in that context was when I was around 17 years old and I thought I was going to jail for a long time. I didn't know what was going to happen. And I got out because people reached out to me and helped me. People picked me back up and gave me motivation to move forward, just like you're hearing in these interviews. So this really is a passion project for me and I'd love it if you checked out my book as well. I tell my whole story on there. You can find it on my website, ericgilbertwilliams.com just click on my book. I would love for you to download a free copy of the intro and prologue. It's there right now anytime there's an audio version as well. And now we're going to go back to the interview. Talk to you guys soon. Okay, we're back now here on From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. Remember to subscribe to the channel. Share this episode with people that you think need to hear it. Remember that the word gets out there every time we all take some action and share this. So share this episode with someone who you think needs to hear the message. I'd really appreciate it. And Sheldon, again, thanks for being here. I really appreciate your time. When we left off just before the break, we were talking a little bit about your rock bottom experiences, your rock bottom moments. Now it's time to switch the tone a little bit. I'd love to hear what your version of Rockin it is. Tell me, what does that look like?

My Rockin it moment. Geez, yeah.

What does that even mean to you?

You know, I don't know. You know, I think just, you know, you know, I think it's just, you know, being able to get those real important relationships back in my life, like, you know, my daughter and sorry about that video, you know, what's happening there. You know, I think it's just, you know, it's. I don't know, like, because I think that it's, it's awesome and I, and I love, you know, like, receiving The Order of Canada, like, what an honor. And like I mentioned to the Governor General at the time, like, who would have thunk, right? Like, there was a time when nobody wanted Sheldon around, let alone, you know, receiving an Order of Canada. So it's, you know, it's. It's. But I think what I've got to is that I'm. I'm accepting these. These awards on behalf of the issues that I represent. To me, I can do that with pride, and I'm very proud of that. And because we've been advocating for those issues for a long time, and the issues of sexual abuse, abuse in general, addiction, they never received the Order of Canada before. They'd never received Canada Sports hall of Fame, and they were never important. And so we've got them to that level of importance, which I'm very proud of. But I think rocking it for me is, you know, being able to be sober, being able to have that relationship with my daughter, my son, my partner, you know, my family. Being able to show up, be accountable, show up. When I say I'm going to show up, right? Show up on time, be prepared. That, to me is critical because that stuff I was always shameful of because, you know, internally. And I never liked being late, but I was always late and I was always. I just. It was a train wreck. Like, you know what? You know what? I don't know. I'm sure you know what it's like. But I mean, I never showed up on time. I was never prepared. I'd always blow people off. I never knew how to say no. I'd say yes to a hundred things and I could only do one. So blew off 99 people. And that was always shameful and guilt, you know, and I just was running from all these lies, you know, and, you know, it just was exhausting. So, you know, to me, rocking it is being accountable, showing up, being able to wake up, you know, having some great mornings with my little guy, my son, you know, my daughter's coming over for dinner tonight. Being able to spend the evening with her and just, you know, learn about what's going on in her life. And, you know, and then the gift of that comes, that, you know, we can carry a message, a solution, focused message to others. And I know that I've walked the walk. I'm not bluffing people. I'm not. I'm not trying to tell people what to do. Meanwhile, I'm not doing it. And I think that that's important. We can't go out there and preach to people if we're not doing it right and if we have to be able. And that I think is critical because you know, you know, I'm not talking, I'm not telling people, you know, I'm not, you know, telling people what I've done, you know, because like I've just done it. Like I try to walk the walk, I think. And, and I think that's my rocking it moment because for most of my life I was just very unaccountable, unreliable person that just used to eat me up because it went against all the morals that I had and you know, anything that I believed in. But that's who I was and that was what was slowly killing me. Right. And doing things that just, you know. Yeah, just the shameful things that addiction brings with it. And so I think those things are what I feel is that make me feel good, that I would consider rocking at the awards and all that stuff is, you know, those are a bonus. Those are a bonus from hard work and it's nice to have people recognize that. But I think it's best to have people and good people in your life. Being able to have healthy relationships, which I never had before. And yeah, I think that's it, Eric.

It comes back to just living like a healthy human is what I'm hearing. And to come out of that trauma and to be able to say, yeah, I live like a healthy human now that's pretty rocking it.

Well, that's the way I feel. Right. And have fun. Like I love, you know, creating new business. I love doing that stuff, you know, and it's fun, right? But you know, when you're, when I was, you know, I mean my whole day, my whole life was consumed with, you know, like just, just in that dark, confusing, fear based, depressive, anxiety ridden state. Like, and you just were, I was frozen in fear. I couldn't do anything. I would think of 50 professions that I would. Fifty, you know, areas of work I was going to do. And every day it was going to be different. Meanwhile, I was so frozen in fear I never took a step to do any it. And you know, it just, yeah, it feels good to be accountable. It feels good to say, hey, I'll see you at 5 o' clock and I'm there at 10 to 5. Like that makes me feel good. Maybe I'm a little obsessive on being on time, but whatever.

I'll tell you something you might not know about me. Maybe you do or don't. So short story. When I was 15 or 16, I dropped out of high school, never went back. I ran away from home, kind of thing. Wasn't exactly running, but, you know, I left home and didn't talk to my parents for, you know, over a year, almost two years. I got into drugs, lived in a drug house. I lived in some very interesting conditions that say that. And parents and kids together, we all just lived in this little spot. And I got in a lot of trouble. I got arrested a couple times, once for trafficking, breach of probation. And it was a very difficult time. And it's something that I really heal from. It's just something I learned to live with, like we talked about. And when I started this show, it was from this place of, okay, I want to give back a little bit, I want to help a little bit. I didn't realize that it was also going to be a personal healing journey for me as, as well. And even when I started this show, this is only going back earlier this year when I would start to talk about this stuff and talk about what I did as a kid and the stuff I'm not proud of. I would get all emotionally riled up and the shame would come back and it would be difficult to talk about it and I'd be all distracted. And a little rock nut moment for me is to be able to talk about these subjects openly and not have it emotionally trigger me in the way that it used to. It's always going to have a little bit of a glitch there. It's always going to trigger something. But to be able to just talk openly and to me that symbolizes that, yeah, that was part of the past. And as part of the past, it's not present anymore. I'm stronger than that. And is that kind of what we're talking about here? When you say being able to be on time and show up and live your normal life now, is that kind of what we're talking about or is it a little different for you?

No, I think that's what we're talking about. And I think what you explained to me is, I mean, you know, what have you been doing for the past year? You've been practicing talking about these issues. The more we practice it, the better we get, the better we understand it, the less it impacts us. And that's, to me, recovery. Right. We gotta really understand and pay attention and really be able to explain and connect with the way we're feeling on a daily basis. And that takes practice. And I think that is what we're talking about, you know, early recovery. I mean, you know, it's like taking a fish out of water and watching them flop around. But they've got oxygen. Right. That was me. I mean, but I had to learn to live without booze and alcohol, and I had to learn to live with walking through my fears. I had to learn. So all these little winds. Little wins. Little wins, right? This just. And I think that's what we're talking about, Eric. I think, you know, it's. It's exactly what we're talking about and just learning to live, you know, a normal type of healthy life. And I think one thing that I realized, too, is that, you know, a lot of people struggle in this space. You know, a lot of people's lives are up and down. There's a lot of people struggle with many issues. And, you know, and I feel grateful that I've got some tools and I've got some, you know, I've got a place that I can go, I mean, to deal with this stuff. A lot of people don't. Great. Like, you know, I mean, I go to. Well, I go to aa, so that's what I do. But I mean, that's my thing. Whatever. But I mean, it's like. But I think that, you know, a lot of people have never connected to get help on it, and they just stay on that roller coaster and, you know, they don't have to be on the street. They can be. I find most people, you know, unless they take action around the way they feel and, you know, some of their. Some of their issues that they may be struggling with, they don't get better. So to me, it's. This is all about action and, you know, doing the work. And when we put in the work, we get better. That's the way I feel about it.

Let's talk about action for a second. You inline skated across the country. Canada's a big country, 8,500km.

I only rollerbladed once in my life. It just happened to be that far.

And you were saying that you stopped at a lot of places on the way to talk to people in groups.

Yeah, I did.

I.

We stopped in every town along number one highway from Newfoundland to Victoria, and we had. We had events and we talked and we had, you know, we had all kinds of disclosures and conversations. And this is back in 1998. This is before we were really talking about this stuff. I mean, and. And it was unreal and all the disclosures and, you know, everything that was going on and at the time and. And sorry about the dog in the background. And, you Know, and it was a journey. It was an unreal journey. And I guess I went into this thinking I was alone. And what I realized is that I wasn't alone. And there was lots of people that had struggled in this way. And one of the things that I think that was hugely helpful on that skate and that journey was that I realized that a lot of people struggled in the same way. And a lot of addiction and a lot of depression, a lot of anxiety, a lot of shame, guilt, and that helped me. It was a journey. Boy, I'll tell you.

Hey, well, let's talk about that for a second. I keep focusing on your story, but you've impacted so many people. I'm wondering, can you remember a time. There must have been several. But when someone came up to you after you were at an event or wherever it happened to be and said, sheldon, you have no idea the positive impact that you've had on my life. You know, and I'm curious to hear about some of the people that you've helped that have come to you and told you, like, what happened and how did that make you feel when you saw the impact that you were having in a positive way?

Well, basically, for 22 years, we receive thousands of letters on a yearly basis that people have said, thank you. And, you know, so that's, you know, I mean, it feels good. And I think, you know, I mean, the point was to give people a voice maybe when they sometimes couldn't find their own. And so, you know, and being able to listen, I think one of the biggest gifts that I learned with the rollerblade and through this process is that, you know, I can't fix people. I can't fix. I can guide them. I can grab them by the hand and get them to a place where they can get help. That's what I can do. But I can also listen. And I've really learned how important listening is, and, you know, really listening. And a lot of times that's what people want, is they just want somebody to really listen to them. And I've learned how to do that. But that was, again, to me, it was a taught skill that I learned. I used to think when I was starting that rollerblade out and that I had to take on everybody's pain and I had to fix everybody. Well, you know, we were seeing thousands of people every day. I mean, you can imagine, right? And, you know, it was. It was a journey where, you know, it wasn't as. Like, a lot of conversations had to happen outside of town. They would Stop you in the middle of the highway outside of the town because, you know, the issues weren't discussed as openly as they are today. We didn't talk about mental health back then. We didn't talk about, you know, any of this stuff. Right. Back in 98. I mean, that's, you know, that's a long time ago. Right, that's. And so, you know, we, we really had to start, you know, start from scratch with this stuff. And. But I really realized what a. How big of a problem this. It really was and, and how connected it was to so many other social, social issues that we have, whether it be homelessness, addiction, you know, suicidal ideation, mental health, crime. Right. You name it. I mean, you know, the data and the stats are there. I mean, you know, and so, yeah, I learned a lot. I continue to learn a lot. But, you know, it's good to see action being taken around this stuff and I guess the acknowledgement of the importance of the impact. I mean, ultimately this stuff is killing people and, you know, we need to be able to take it as serious as. As that requires. Right?

Yeah. When I was growing up too, I mean, the word mental health didn't exist and, you know, I never heard someone talking about this stuff. And so I had this bookkeeper that stole a bunch of money from me in my last company and I caught her. I literally could not get the police to criminally charge her. It was just a weird thing where it's like the system was protecting in case she may have been innocent in some weird instance. And two years ago, I got jumped on New Year's. I was finishing a party. I was going home like five in the morning after a New Year's party, and this crazy guy jumped me and punched me in the face. I was all bloody and stitches and shit, and I couldn't get the police to charge him. You know, it just boggled my mind. And the police officer, nice guy, you know, we had some conversations around it and he said, look, the system has accidentally charged people who were innocent by accident. So there's a whole bunch of measures in place now. And the result, now the system kind of defends, you know, the guilty because. And it's not supposed to be that way, but that's how it felt to me twice. Now I'm trying to charge criminals and I can't, I'm stuck. And I have other examples too. And I don't know what it was like back then in the 80s and 90s. I can't really recall stories there because I was Too young. But I still haven't come to terms with how difficult sometimes it is to have justice served. I do believe that the system is overall good and we're doing our best, but it's tough. Do you have any comment on that? I mean, you must have gone through a whole ton of that stuff.

Yeah, I mean, I think, and especially in this space, I mean, I think that we've come a long ways in the acknowledgment through our justice system around the importance and the prevalence of, you know, and the impact of the type of crime of abuse. So, you know, we, we have definitely learned a lot. I mean, Graham James got three and a half years served, 18 months. I mean, you know, in ours and in our case, early on, well, now we're seeing those sentences become higher. But I think it's a real, just a learning curve. And I think as society, we are learning a lot more about the impact of this type of crime, the long lasting impact of this crime. I mean, you know, we know that kids that have been abused, you know, are 26 times to experience youth homelessness. 80% of people in treatment centers and detox centers have disclosed early childhood abuse. I mean, 15 times more likely to attempt suicide. I mean, 30% higher dropout rates in high school. I mean, you know, the list goes on. Right? Like the list goes on. So when we start connecting those dots and painting that picture, this is a very serious crime. And you know, We've done over 15,000 child abuse investigations and 98% of those cases, those kids are abused by a parent or caregiver. And over 50% of the time they're abused or no, 98, 98% of the time they're abused by somebody they know and over 50% of the time they're abused by parental caregiver. So this is not a crime that happens. It happens very close to home. And why it's a very difficult crime to investigate and to deal with because, you know, whether you're being hurt, you never want to see your family broke up, you never want to see a parent go to jail, but that's basically what you're dealing with. And so it's been, It's a very difficult crime to deal with because it's most of the time dealing with people, you know, and people in trust. It's not your typical criminal or bad person. So, yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, I mean, there's good and bad and everything, but I think at the end of the day, you know, we need to continually see progress an Action taken to right wrongs. And that's what I like to see.

And what are you focused on now? I'm curious to hear what projects you're involved with. What's a day in the life of Sheldon Kennedy today? You know, what's that look like?

Yeah, well, we're active grain farmers, and so we farm out in Saskatchewan. So we grow all kinds of crops out there. But, you know, we've been running a business for 18 years. It's called Respect Group. So we've spent our time educating, empowering the bystanders. Our goal is to work with organizations. We have respect in the workplace, respect in sport, respect and support for parents, respect in school. And we educate all coaches across this country, you know, workplaces around the issues of bullying, harassment, discrimination and abuse. So we train, you know, we trained a million and a half. We train a million and a half people a year, and that's what we focus on. So it's an e learning platform. And it's. When we started it, we used to get laughed out of boardrooms, and now we're getting asked to show up the next day. So it's shifted on a priority. It's a big priority, and it's an important issue. And especially in, you know, it's always been an important issue, but it seems to be something that the importance of it is really gone beyond policy and becoming a priority within organizations. And that's important, right?

Well, one of the questions I always like to wrap up with is if you were able to go backwards in time and talk to yourself as a teenager, maybe you got 30 seconds to just say anything you wanted to your younger self now that you're wiser and going through what you are going through and have healed so much. What would you say to yourself as a teenager if you had that chance?

You know, I would say that I am who I am today because of what happened to me, you know, and. And I have an opportunity to, you know, shape my future. I mean, basically, that's. That's the way I think. Right. You know, because I think you always wonder, it's your fault, you've done something wrong. But I think it's like, you know, it's just I am who I am because of what happened in my life. And I think we are who we are on things that have. The way our life has been built. And that's, you know, to me, that's who I am. And I think for a long time, we never see that, but that's what I would say.

Is there anything I can do to help you.

Well, I think you are helping me. We're having a conversation. That's what. That's how the shit works, isn't.

Is. It's where it all starts. And sometimes it grows, and.

And you're getting it out to lots of people. So I think that's awesome.

Yeah, exactly.

We're doing it. And. Yeah. And I appreciate the offer. And I think it's just, you know, I think helping me would be helping others and being able to have this conversation. And I think, Eric, like, you are helping others, and that's important, and it's. And it's helped me. Right. I needed a good conversation like this. This is. This is the daily work I need to do to make sure that I keep showing up on time.

You showed up on time here. In fact, I was two minutes late for being fully open. I was two minutes late signing on, so that one's on me today. Well, I really appreciate you coming out here, Sheldon. I know you're really busy, and, you know, your story is so powerful. It has such a positive impact on so many people. You know, I'm just grateful to have you here and grateful you have the courage to do what you did and come through this shining. You know, it could have ended up so many different ways, but you took that power in your hands. You took the power back and said, no, I'm in charge. And you started to make choices that brought you to where you are. And it's really impressive. You said about hope, that change comes from hope. And I hope that people listening here see that there is hope in their lives, too. I mean, it's that old thing. If you can do it, then other people can, too. And I hope that people reach out for the help that they need. And there's a whole ton of charities that I sponsor on the show. Just check them out, all the resources on my website, just go to the sponsors page, and you'll find a ton of resources there. So anyone listening here, just take that power back, realize that you have that choice, and check out the resources on my website or with friends and share this episode with people that need to hear it. That's probably the best thing that could happen. I mean, I pay for the show because I want to. There's no sponsors. It's all just my money. And I think that we all just do our best with the resources that we have. And it's just one little initiative I do. And everyone listening can do a little initiative on their own, too. And you never know how much of a positive impact that's going to have. And I want you to think about that. I'm going to leave you guys on that note to think about just the impact that you have and to realize how important and special you really are and keep that candle alight. And if that spark ever dies, know that other people are holding it for you. And I'll hold that light up for you guys, too, until you refind it yourselves. So tune in next time here at From Rock Bottom to Rock. Shelley, do you have any parting words you want to say to anyone listening or any final message before we wrap up?

Oh, I don't know. Just easy does it. Easy does it.

And tell me that website again. Respect. Respect Group Inc.com respectgroup.com respectgroupinc.com so anyone wants to check that out, just go to the website, check out Sheldon's book as well. Check out his YouTube. There's a lot of stuff and content out there and keep on rocking it. Hold that light and we'll talk to you guys next time.

Awesome.

And that's it, my friends, for this episode. We will see you next time. Please send me an email, say hello, give me some, give me some feedback. Let me know what you think. Give me some tips and suggestions. I'd love to hear from you. Also, please share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, doesn't matter. Just get it out there. I really appreciate it. And we'll see you next time on From Rock Bottom to Rockin It. Have a rockin it.