Finding Truth in a Manufactured World - Neil Kramer - Ep144

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Okay, so this is the Whole Man Academy podcast, episode 144. It's not often that I bring guests back because they're so excellent, to be honest, and have so many comments. But today we speak to Neil Kramer, and it was two and a bit years ago, actually, I interviewed Neil in November 2022, which we'll come to. But Neil. More about him. He's a teacher, writer, speaker, specializing in the fields of theology and esotericism. Neil's work focuses on cultivating. He wrote this himself, which is why I get it right. Culture. Cultivating a deeper understanding of self, soul, spirit transformation and divinity, which gives us so much to talk about. But, Neil, first off, how are you? And I'm assuming you're in where you've always lived, like, loitering there and. And kind of, you know, watching the world from afar as it gently crumbles.

Yes. How nicely put. I'm doing very well, thank you. Thank you for asking. And as we had a little chat before, and I know you're doing well, too, so I'm glad. Yeah, it's actually, would you believe, four years ago when we spoke.

Mad, isn't it?

Yeah. 2022. Because what are we now? 26. Four years ago. That has flown by.

Yeah.

And talking to you now, it seems like it was just yesterday. I'm doing great. I'm doing very well, thank you. And as much as I try and look from afar, of course I'm drawn into the same damn thing as everyone else's. So the world is. Is right there out the window, but it's also in my fingers and toes as well. So, yes, I'm trying to see, I'm trying to think, I'm trying to feel as. As, you know, as part of my work. I talk about it and write about it and think about it as part of my job so I have an excuse to dwell on the world and what's happening. But, yeah, in myself, I am doing great. Thank you very much. Yeah.

Would you. You just said, you know, dwell on stuff, but there is. There is so much to. To look at and I feel like, you know, the. The universe, however you want to put it, is throwing so much at people and again, taking back to 2022. And we spoke in late on in that year and I remember saying then, you know, what do you see coming in the year or two ahead? And you said, you know, I don't know, but what I feel is. And, you know, various things that were going on, but I was trying to evaluate before I knew I was speaking to you. I mean, in the uk, where primarily the guys that will be listening are based, I mean, we've got the government, which is a dangerous shambles, and I would wager that it's a deliberate shambles, but recently you've had. I mean, let's list them. You've got the Epstein stuff, which it's funny how the media act as if it's only just come out when actually, I mean, you could have found a lot of this stuff on YouTube four or five years ago. You've got the war drums still beating the. The, you know, they want to go into Iran. And I would say there's a huge amount of propaganda, from what I hear on what's really been going on out there. You've got Big Pharma still pulling the strings with the media. The school system is slowly being exposed, which I am part of, because I have family in and around the school system. The NHS is struggling and I know because I have men in my network who work there. You've got the Charlie Kirk thing, which was major for about a week and a half, then everybody's forgotten about it. You've got crypto crashing, which I think will come back. You've got precious metals skyrocketing and there's a reason why. Last two is banking system flashing red. And you've got terrible potholes in the uk, which you would not believe. So where, when you're talking to people, like, forgetting the. I want to say the religion, but, like, is it hard for you to keep up with what is going on in the world at the moment because there's so much to try and grab our attention?

No, because I. I try as far as I can to control what grabs my attention by controlling what I look at. Yeah, the. The hardest thing to accept, even for the smart guys that, you know, listen to this show, presumably. I know you speak to a lot of smart and very capable men, you know, young and mature and older and, you know, they're not stupid guys, they're intelligent guys and they come to somebody like you to find substantial communication even for those people. And those parallels of those people. In my life, we have been acclimated to looking at, quote, the news and thinking that it is the news, or then going to independent media, whatever that is, like Zero Hedge or Gateway Pundit or something like that, and thinking that that's the news, which it, you know, that's what, that's where people get their information from. But as, as I mentioned a little while ago, I did an article for a book some years ago which they, you know, they contacted a bunch of people and said, can you do a chapter in this book? And mine was about evil in the world and evil in the media. And it basically traced back the beginning of the media period. What even is that as moving our live media to first to radio and then to television.

Yeah.

And how it was always from inception, an intelligence operation. Like, they don't hide it. It was, it's an intelligence operation and it was a war, a tool of war from the beginning. If you trace back the history, especially of the BBC, it's a tool of war. And it was, it was designed to help people understand what was going on in foreign countries only to. Towards a script that was delivered to them, though they didn't really want to give them. They want to give the impression of what was going on. So. So, you know, it's like a matter of record that the intelligence services, what was there before MI5, basically, and then MI6, the domestic British intelligence services realized that during the Second World War they could control what people thought by controlling the radio and the television, which they dominated. Dominated. There was no TV really then, just the first iterations of it. And then after the Second World War, when the Allies, quote, had one quote, which I argue differently.

Yeah.

But when that had all done and the. It seemed like the good guys won, the intelligence people thought, we don't need to dismantle that propaganda apparatus because it's still incredibly important and it never stopped. So I would say essentially a bit like all TV is based on the BBC template around the world and all tv, all media is based on British newspapers around the world. And all intelligence services are based on British intelligence and all special operations military are based on British military. They are so little farty old Britain, you know, tiny island.in the middle of nowhere is very, very, very influential in military and media. And I would say you can look into the history of this if you like. It's not difficult to do it. Even on some garbage like Wikipedia, you'll still get a sense of it. I would say no one listening to this program has ever seen a news broadcast about events in the world, ever. Not once. Not for five seconds. You never have that. What you have is a fictional narrative, sometimes based on real events, but often not even that. And we don't know what the alternative of what real news even looks like. So you're never seeing what is happening with a disease or a war or a person or what's happening in the Ukraine or what's happening in Serbia or Somalia or Taiwan, you know, is about to be invaded or whatever, you know. Yeah. No one ever knows what's happening with that. Nobody. So what you're seeing on a page or a screen these days is not news. You're not seeing a depiction of events in the world. You're not seeing about a real disease or a real war or a real insurrection or a real protest or a real riot or a real election. You're not seeing that. And I think that's very, very hard for people to believe.

Yes.

And I. I forget that I've been looking at this for such a long time that it's not a big deal for me to do that.

You're an old man.

Well, I've been looking at it for a long time. So the initial culture shock, the initial dissonance, the initial problems that it creates in your life. A long ago for me, in the 1980s and 90s, that far back. But if I talk to a decent person about it in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, today, they find it incredibly difficult to believe my proposition. Not that I do, unless they ask me.

Yeah.

But they find it hard to believe there is no news. But that's. That's my starting point to say. I don't think, therefore I see a problem fundamentally, to answer your question now. Thank you for that opportunity to give a tiny bit of background on that. Fundamentally, I think the world is doing exactly what it's supposed to do. Everything is on target and events are proceeding very smoothly as exactly as one would imagine on the proviso that you have a sufficiently articulated picture of spiritual reality and genuine history. If you have that picture, which many people have had that picture for a long time and many people have not at all. If you have that picture, there is nothing strange about what is happening in the world. You know, it's funny when you said, let's, let's do a podcast again and talk again, I'm in distinct danger of repeating everything I've said to you last time if I'm not careful.

Just replay it.

Yeah. Not. Not just. Just play the whole thing back. Not because I can't be bothered or because what I was saying is so good. Nothing. Neither of those two things. It's just because what's going, quote, wrong with the world and what we can do about it on a personal and collective level, and how we discern what things are. That stuff has been satisfactorily answered for thousands of years. Those questions, for thousands of years, seriously, those answers remain unchanged and still good, solid, true, genuine. So suppose what you and I are trying to do, of course, is to reframe wisdom about the world to. From that ancient time, to make it more relevant.

Yeah.

More understandable and more digestible for a modern audience and use the lingo and the ideas and the slang of today and whatever, but I really genuinely feel that the state of the world has been largely unchanged for a few thousand years. And that's not a bad thing. Again, once you form a clear picture of what the world is and more importantly, what the world is for, which, you know, requires us for sure to exercise our philosophical muscles a little bit. And we need a bit more theological background to do that. And we need a little bit to look above the natural world alone. We have to be a bit metaphysical, above the physical, broader, outside the physical or supernatural, above the natural. If you don't do that, you can't have the view. So it asks us immediately, when you talk in the way that I am, to say, yeah, we have politics, we have culture, we have mountains and rivers, we have cars and houses and bank accounts and all that lot, crypto wallets or goodness knows what. Today we have that, sure, but we're not talking about that. We're not talking just about the ground level events. If we do just that, we can't see the deeper themes, which is about purpose, basically. Purpose. So that purpose and the origin of things and the destiny of things remains hidden if you allow yourself to be hypnotized by the inevitable toing and froing of the ordinary, mundane world, however subtle or dramatic the storylines are in, quote the news that you'll be mesmerized by it and you'll not see what's going on. So we have to repeatedly lift ourselves outside of that socio political cultural theatrical production that, you know, you see on the 6 o' clock news or you see on your. It's like a dark cloud. Your Times newspaper or your Guardian newspaper. Yeah, you can't do that. What the BBC and CNN tell us every day, you can't do that. What the markets say, you can't do that. What the newspapers say, what the politicians and the businessmen say. If that constitutes the greater portion of your view of the world, you'll never know what's going on. Because you know why? Because they don't know. They have absolutely no clue at all what the world is or what it's for. None. Not because they couldn't, they just haven't. They don't know. So all the stuff of everyday prosaic life and all the news that purports to depict that is all, as you might say philosophically after the fact. It's symptomatic of something, it's not causal, if you understand what I'm saying. Yeah, you're examining stuff that's happened after the fact. What we're trying to do is say what made those things happen? What does it mean? So the stories in the mainstream and independent media are not causing anything. They're a depiction of some symptoms, they're the result of things. And we're trying to see what those causal things are. And we have to acknowledge the fact as, as brutal as this might sound, that the majority of human beings who are out there doing various activities are willingly and determinedly remaining unconscious about the world so they can enjoy their life. They just want to get the head down and get on with their life. So that's the problem. The problem is not some evil rulers, there's always those, there always has been and there will be until the last day, which is there is a last day. So it's finite, it's not evil rulers, it's not elites, it's normal people who don't want to look at stuff, they don't want to do it. So that's what we're trying to do. The state of the world can only be properly assessed in context through having that metaphysical theological picture which as, as I think I said last time, theology, for anyone who's not familiar with that, it just means the study and then of the nature of God and anything related to that subject matter, spiritual things, the literature, the doctrines, the practices, the history, etc. So it's theology, theology, study of God that brings the first credible metaphysical things into view, not as a religious thing, but as a real hands on thing. And that's, that's where I park company with a lot of socio political commentators. And why what I do is so niche, frankly. Yeah, because think, oh, he's religious, he's Christian or something. Well, that's the end of that. Because he's just believing things. Well, I have to tell you, I don't operate like that. I don't just believe things. I only look at stuff that to my satisfaction, has proven true. It takes me a very, very, very long time to trust anything or anybody. And I would say it took me 30 years to believe there is a God and to observe what he's doing and to see how he operates and what this world is for. You know, it's a case. You take the case on, you prosecute it. Is it going to stand up in court or is it a pile of crap? Is it real or is it a nice fantasy? Does it have legs? Or is it going to be laughed out of the, you know, courtroom and the jury are all going to give the thumbs down? It's a case. You take the case on and you prosecute it and you do it because it's the most serious thing there is. Because if there is a God, if that stuff is true, everything is different. Every single thing is different. And if he said things to us about what's going on, what's happening in the world has a completely different interpretation. Completely. So that's. That's where I pivot 90 degrees from what all my friends who I grew up with are doing and from what most of you know, the nice, decent society that I grew up in, Cheshire, in England.

Yeah.

And now I'm in the northwest of the States in those places, loads of lovely people. I'm not having to go at them. I'm not condemning them. I'm not. I don't feel superior to them. But they don't want to look at this. They don't. They want to play a bit, work a bit, have a nice time and just see what happens. They don't want to know. I do want to know.

Do you know what I do want?

I do want to know. This is.

And it's great that we started off with this because again, I, you know, I've said to you on the previous podcast, I try and find the balance between talking about the bigger or deeper picture and also the surface level stuff. And yeah, I have a. I have an online quiz which was called the Blueprint quiz, and men basically score, like their 10 most important areas of life. And, and then at the end put, you know, what's your biggest challenge at the moment? And 10 years ago, scrolling would never have come up in anywhere, I would say. Now, I would say, and this includes all the men in my Membership, it is one of the top three problems for men in life at the moment, which. And obviously there's the problems of, I don't know, you know, being overweight or maybe losing a job or have you. But I would say 90 of the men I speak to from a, From a micro level will say one thing is they're struggling with too much scrolling. And I've found it before because, you know, 20 minutes later you're like, oh, I mean, everybody's.

Everybody's done it. Yeah, everybody's done it. But is it a problem if it is a problem? Yeah, that's that, as you say, it's not long ago that we didn't even know what it was, let alone it.

And what I see is that has come up. I know, I love seeing those graphs where, you know, like, certain companies, like, have grown over the years and there'll be that kind of like interactive graph or whatever where you'll see companies growing and the sudden rise in certain things and, and scrolling from a very deeply personal level is incredible how, of course, if they are scrolling and as you rightly said, the media is there to create dread and to confuse and whatever else it can do, indoctrinate and what have you. And my issue now, of course, is that you don't know anything you see online on the screen is real anymore. Like you said on the news, in, you know, in newspapers. But, you know, my understanding that different governments will have paid influencers to push narratives as well. And you've got AI. And this is what I try and say to guys, you know, you've got the big deep stuff that to look at, you know, your purpose in life and what makes you fulfilled and are you loving and what kind of man you are and also just trying to survive without getting sucked into that, that kind of black mirror device, if that makes sense. Like, I wonder if we'll look in five, 10, who knows, years time and realize how damaging when I say just social media, but just the scrolling, it's incredible how in that, you know, of course it depends what men are looking at, but you know how that will have affected men as well, because it's incredible how I reckon 9 out of 10 men I speak to, when you say, like, what's going on? They'll say every week, I know, don't just scroll too much and wasting my time. And I try and say there's, you know, you'll say you haven't got time to do all the other stuff. And it could be looking at religion, it could be Working out. Could be kissing your kids good night, could be doing whatever.

Sure, sure.

But they'll say, I know, but I just find myself doing all the time. And it's, it's so clever. I mean, that's how I would look at it as well. The, you know, whoever has created it has clearly obviously worked on how to make people addictive like a slot machine know. And it just shows you, doesn't it, that. And we're talk about CEOs and grown men, we're not talking of like kids who are, you know, rubbish online. And, and that's why I love these interviews with you because you kind of want to take guys above all of that and say, don't get sucked into commenting on people's stuff online. And had a good discussion the other day where I said to a guy, don't you think it's funny? Because he was talking about the war in Ukraine, I believe it was to start with. I said, isn't it funny that if you think back to remember like when, what year was it when the Scud missiles were happening? You know, in. Oh yeah, all those many years ago. And I said, you think how much footage of it was on the news, but there's zero footage of the Ukraine, Russia war on, anywhere on social media. I mean, you can find, if you really dig, but there's nothing around.

Right? Yeah.

He said, you know, if the newspapers didn't tell you it was happening, you wouldn't even know what was going on. And I'm not saying it isn't going up, but it just reminds you, isn't it? They will tell you what they want you to think about.

They can ease, they can easily say there's a war in the Ukraine and here's the casualties and here's the children being harmed and here's the brave Ukrainian soldiers and the nasty Russians. They can easily do that for years and none of that is happening. Easily, easily, easily, easily. If they want to, that's happened many, many, many, many, many times. They can easily, easily do that. It's, it's a narrative structure that they can easily make that semi fiction or total fiction easily. And no one's ever going to question it because they've seen pictures of things, because they've seen video inserts of things. So anyway, let me get back to what you were saying before.

Yeah,

when you scroll, when you're scrolling, as you say, when you're scrolling, you are losing lifeblood. You're like you're bleeding. When you're scrolling, you're bleeding. And you can only lose a certain amount of blood. Okay. And be conscious and fine about it. Like when, if you give blood, you give a pint of blood, say, you know, you just need to sit down a minute, have a cup of tea and then you can drive home, no big deal. But if you lose too much, you become faint, your consciousness has changed and you become vulnerable. And they do that as part of interrogation technique. They'll draw blood to make somebody suggestible and more vulnerable to.

I didn't know that.

Yeah. You know, like sleep deprivation is one thing. Sure. You know that. Blood loss is another one. They'll, they'll take blood like a hospital to make you more suggestible and you're in and out of things and you just start saying stuff. And of course the interrogators thinking, oh, this is great because they're just going to say stuff. It's like we're giving them a truth serum or something. I think scrolling is like that. I think it's the same thing as that. When video platforms came out, I remember thinking, these videos are going from long form things to shorter and shorter and shorter.

Yeah.

And the quality of them is rapidly declining. This is in like 2012. And by 2015, 2016, it was hard for me to find anything worth watching on YouTube that was quality, in my view. Of course, you find a channel of some guys you like.

Yeah.

Subject matter you like, sport, you like whatever. But just generally, generally speaking, the quality rapidly declined, but the number of videos vastly accelerated in number. And now we're at the point where you've got these preposterous reels. Right. Which just are the. I can't, I can't fathom why anybody would watch tick tock clips and 2 second, 5 seconds, 7 second, 14 second. I just can't do it. I think it's just because I'm old and I'm used to long form stuff, honestly.

So addictive, isn't it? Because it's as it is. You know, the algorithm knows what you like and it will show you more.

No, it's not addictive at all for me. Not at all. Because I don't do it. But I can imagine how it could be. But I, I definitely equate scrolling and looking and clicking. The novelty of that. The algorithms, as it says, of tracking what I like, the things I like, or if I'm interested in guitars, which I am, and guns, which I am. Good combination. Very American. You know, I've always loved guns. I used to shoot with my dad in England in the 70s and 80s. So I've always loved guns. The history, the shooting, the firearms, the engineering, everything. I love guns. Which. You can say that over here and people don't think you're a complete nutcase. Whereas in England, obviously, you've said that to somebody, you think there's something wrong with you. And if I, if I'm looking at some latest pistol that's super cool and super interesting, or a vintage gun from, you know, the Second World War or the First World War or something, I'm like, so interesting. Yeah. And then, you know, the algorithm sees that and starts to give me tempting content. The. Oh, look at this, look at this new barrel, look at this diameter, look at this exotic new metal. Look at this polymer that they're using for the handle. Isn't it. Isn't it so fascinating nerdy stuff that somebody like me would be interested in. I can see what they're trying to do, but I'm still bleeding.

Yeah.

I'm still losing blood. So every time that I'm doing that, I know that that's, that's not a good thing. It's not nourishing me, it's depleting me. So I've noticed that in my life with technology, because I make stuff, I write stuff, I create stuff, like you do. I. I make content. I try and avoid that phrase, but I do.

Yeah.

I do it very rarely, though. I only put two or three things out a year. That's it. Most of my work is speaking with people, talking, listening, walking with them, asking questions, answering questions, discussing things together. So I don't need the screen a lot for that. Even when, as we've got it on now, as you know, I've got me back to you turn the video off and I'm looking out of a window so I can think and feel and get into what you're saying. Better. If I'm doing a show like I'm on tv, which I do very occasionally, it's. It's different. So I know for me to get away from the screen is when I do stuff better. When I'm on the screen and I'm making something that's quality, I'm not scrolling.

Yeah.

When I, When I'm absorbing a text, that is important, I'm not going to scroll through a PDF of 500 pages. I might look at the first three and then get the book. So if I'm reading something, I'm not scrolling a lot. If I'm listening to something, I'm not scrolling at all. If I'm creating something or Writing something I'm not scrolling at all. If I'm making a photograph or making audio, which I do both of those things as part of my job, I'm not scrolling. So the novelty and the content vomit montage of stupid spew is not helping me at any point in my study and my work and my creation doesn't. It gets in the way. So I have to say that novelty dopamine fix, cocaine hit stuff is a symptom of me not having nourishment from real, the real word, which is a spiritual thing, and instead having a fake word, fake pictures, fake images. And I'm like, this is, like this is supplanting something else. So I would say this, and I don't mean to be too provocative to the listeners or yourself. If you don't have purpose, then you will eat whatever you can get your hands on. If you don't have a word of truth from the being that made truth, then you will eat anything. Whether it's true or not, you'll eat something. So it's symptomatic eating media that you know is bad for you, bleeding when you know it's bad for you. It's symptomatic of not having any connection, any relationship, any cognizance of the creator himself. If you don't have that, you will go wrong.

I, I found myself because I'm trying to reach more men. I literally have that wrestling, or I would say wrestling with that thing of, you know, feeling like you need to put out more content to obviously attract more men into the whole mad academy so you can then help them improve their life and wanting just to delete social media completely. And I know a lot of people that, you know, kind of wrestle with that.

It's a tough one.

Yeah. And it is because I always look and realize, I mean, for me, LinkedIn has been the best platform because what I realized, of course, was that you're allowed to look at that at work and that's technically working, whereas you're not allowed to sit looking at Instagram or Tick Tock or whatever. But it's, it's an ever changing beast. And it's funny how some people, they can be so conditioned to feel like social media that they must be using it to run their business, that they forget about the old ways of actually getting in front of people and, you know, going out and, you know, being face to face and stuff, which interesting. In the last few, I'd say weeks or months, I'm not. We'll come on to politics in A minute because I know you'd like to speak about it and I certainly would. But interestingly, alongside social media, it's very easy then to layer things in for people to either indoctrinate them or just plant seeds, if that makes sense. And one of the things I briefly want to talk about was universal basic income because, you know, for those that don't know, that is basically giving everybody that needs it income regardless of whether they work. In short. But a year or two ago I was asked to say debate, slash, have a conversation with a guy called Guy Standing who supposedly is, you know, the world leading expert in universal basic income. And I just was interested in your thoughts on that because I came from a place of. I wasn't saying it was a bad idea if people needed it and were struggling. But I do understand that at some point AI is going to take jobs. Now, I don't know how many, you know, is that 90% of jobs, 50% of jobs, 10% of jobs? Is it being overcooked? But I'd love to get your take on universal basic income because it has been trialled in various countries. And what was interesting when I spoke to the expert on it, that he said, I said, where should the money come from? And he said, oh, it should be a carbon tax on all the people. And he said I was a, I was a climate denier because I said, you know, the science on climate, climate change certainly isn't settled, I would say by any stretch of the imagination. But yeah, just love to get even if it's a short take on any thoughts on universal based income? You know, is it a necessity coming down the line or is it a control mechanism?

If it was good people doing it, it could have a very limited utility. Especially if robots are going to do a lot of the old jobs, which they're starting to do that. Yeah, I was at Seattle airport the other day and there was like a thing that quite resembled R2D2 doing, cleaning the floor. And it was just going along cleaning stuff and then as you got near it, it stopped and said hello or whatever. And then as you walked away and you safely out of its reach, it went on cleaning the floor. This is at like one o' clock in the morning when most people are not there or something. And I just thought, wow, it's here. You know, the robots are here, they're driving cars, they're talking to people, they're in factories and some of them are walking around with a degree of independence. It is strange. My wife saw, you know, the first car driving with no one in it the other day in San Francisco. And, you know, it's happening, so.

Yeah, again, it's not.

Yeah, no, it's not like some pipe dream. I've seen it with my own eyes and it's here. I think it's good that you can eliminate jobs that, frankly, human beings shouldn't really be doing. Repetitive, stupid, pointless jobs. They shouldn't, they said, but, you know, we have this proud union and we're, you know, riveting this ship or whatever. Well, okay, you can still do that if you want, but it'll be harder. And, you know, I work at the Ford factory assembling these things. And, well, some jobs require a craftsman and an engineer, and should. Some jobs don't. So it's basically. I can see it would come where that would change things, and people who don't have a skilled job are gonna have a difficult time. I think in some limited contexts, having basic needs met can be a humane thing to do while somebody gets themselves straight. But not as a matter of course. Ever. Never. I. I'll. I'll trying to resist quoting Bible passages, but I've just. I can't resist any longer.

Carry on.

So there's a. When Paul's writing to Thessalonica in about 50, 51, 52 A.D. in the book Second Thessalonians in the Bible, it's his second letter to this spiritual community in Thessalonica in Greece, as you know, Thessalonica. He says, if anyone is not willing to work, then neither shall he eat. If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat. That's his instruction to his homies, to his spiritual friends, to the lads there that he's talking to. He says, we don't expect anyone to give us anything ever, ever, ever. And if someone's not willing to work, then he's not going to eat. He can die on the street for all weaker. He's talking to his own people. Not poor people. His own people. Some poor, some rich, some in the middle. He's saying there is a. There is a principle at work here which is that putting food in your mouth is connected to your labor. Yes, it is. So I have to say I have an extremely unsympathetic view to people being having, quote, basic human needs met by the state. I think that's a recipe for disaster. It's also scripturally unsound to do such a thing, to have a safety net as. As Marco Rubio said, it's a safety net, not a safety hammock. Right? It's a net. If you've got a problem and suddenly you've got, you know, three kids to feed and a wife like, you know what that's like, and you suddenly have got a problem that really is, you know, out of your hands and you need some help for six months or a year maybe even. Okay, I see that. I see that. But it's up to you to provide with your own wit and your own craftsmanship, your own intelligence, your own labor, your own sweat and your own investment in yourself. It's up to you to provide. Not the state. Never ever the state, not the church, not your mum and dad, not your mates. It's up to you to provide.

Yeah.

And if you do find somebody to help you with that, like a government, well, you're lucky. That's. That's a nice thing to do. But if you ever, ever rely on that, you are going against a direct principle which, as we just have seen, ties labor to nourishment. Without your labor, you don't deserve nourishment. You don't have any basic human rights. In spiritual reality, that's a big thing. You don't have any. There are no fundamental universal human rights. You don't have any at all. Everything that you do is based on your relationship with the Creator and your own. The fidelity of your own behavior. Nobody owes you a damn thing. Now, I know that's a very conservative view. Politically, I've always held it.

Yeah.

But as I've learned about spiritual life and learned about Christian principles and theology, and as I think, you know, my background, that's not where I started off. I started off in Western esoteric, mystical traditions. I know about Buddhism. I know about Zen. I know about a lot of, you know, comparative religious studies, as you might say. But it's led me to the essentials of what you might call historic Christianity, which is not what you see at church typically, I have to say, real Christianity, that those guys were doing in the first, second and third centuries, that's where the juices. That's where the whole thing is. And in those principles, they are like warriors. They are Jedis, they are super monks. They don't fuck about and they don't accept any compromise whatsoever for themselves. And I try to enmesh those principles as civilly as I can, as sensibly as I can into my life. And you can. And when you do that, the very idea of universal basic income, is it obliterated? No. Yeah. So the short answer is no. And the real answer is if it is a divine principle echoed in the words of this man Paul, it's not channeled down to him from heaven, but he's echoing something that is a divine principle. He's saying, provision for life in your labor is provision for your mouth. Those two are inextricably linked. And if you won't do one, do not expect the other.

It's funny because you've, you've said something in there that touched on another topic I wanted to talk about. But just whilst we're on that, what I gently said was, of course, the money that sounds great, that is free, is never free because it will, it will come with conditions.

Yeah.

And he said, no, it wouldn't. And I find that very, very hard to believe. But of course, my view was once you have people on a universal basic income and they have no means of earning money maybe anymore, they are, of course, totally controlled because like you said, if you, if you want your money, you will do what we tell you, whether it's taking jabs or doing anything else.

Yeah, anything.

Yeah, that's, that's your freedom gone. And also, you know, you, you know, and I know about the, the importance of purpose for a man and woman, but for a man, you know, to be given handouts. Ultimately I see where some people think some utopian, oh, we'll just have money in our account and we can just all flounce around and unfortunately, I think it would disintegrate society, which is why I could probably do a whole podcast about that as well.

But yeah, it would. It's, it's, it's a bad thing. You have to work while you're alive in this world, no matter how many millions of pounds you've got, if you're not working. And we'll perhaps think broadly about what that actually means. If you're not working, you're doing something wrong. Now the work is, it's not like everyone, every, every guy that I've met in England thinks who's like 20 or 30 says, I want to get about 5 million in the bank and then retire. Yeah, I think I can do it with investments on that. And I can do X, Y and Z and just, you know, do a bit of part time stuff, a bit of consulting. That's what everyone I've ever met says. Everybody. And I says, and what would you do with the rest of it? Oh, I'd travel, I'd go to places, I'd write a book. Everybody says that, right. It's, all of that is bullshit. It's a Dream. And it's bullshit. Your job here is to get straight because you are crooked. Every one of us is crooked. We are not straight. We are emotionally infants and we are intellectually bent. And our work is. One thing is to get straight. To get straight. And that has spiritual, psychological, emotional, intellectual, biological conditions to it. But mostly interior. Mostly it's an interior work. That's the work. That is the work. If you can work that into what actually is a contribution to society and puts some tokens in your bank account, great, Fantastic. That would. That would be awesome. If you. If your contribution to society has got anything to do with your work, then you start to realize why the work is significant. Because you're not here to feather your own nest. Nobody is. You're here to contribute to a larger project. You know, if. If you're an atheist to society, if you're a Christian to the Kingdom project, which is God is making a family, he's educating that family, and then he's going to take them out of this funny classroom back to the real world. That's. That's the Kingdom project. Right. If you contribute in either to your society in a germane and moral and decent positive manner, which is a good thing. Mm. That. That is parallel to Kingdom Project work. Totally parallel. If you then want to elevate it further because you realize there's a profoundly supernatural element to what we're talking about. It's not nuts and bolts. It's not just clockwork. There's something bigger going on. You lift it even further and you move out of this nihilism of self protection and self pleasure and self security into something that is higher. And that work, that higher work is not a pompous thing. It's not some strange transcendent thing. It's what we're built for. That always requires work until your dying day. You never retire from that work. So the work that Paul's talking about is that. That's the thing that is valuable. If you're not working, there's something wrong. Now, whether you get paid for it or not actually is something separate, something completely separate. We taught about how this stuff works. It's not quite the same thing. You have to work. If you're not working, there's something wrong. If you're not studying, there's something wrong. If there's. If you're not contemplating, there's something wrong. So dead work, that means nothing. And dead play, which means nothing, is what leads people to scroll. That's. That's why. Because they're not doing Something that for them has purpose, because it is, it's about purpose.

Doesn't mean enough.

If you don't see a purpose to life itself, then you don't have a sense of purpose in yourself. Think, think of it like this. I'll hand it over to you, just give me one minute. Most people who you ever meet in life, because you asked, you asked me. We're talking about mindset in our pre conversation emails, weren't we? Mindset, okay. What's a good mindset for a man? What's a good mindset for someone who is wanting to be successful and real in the life? Think, think of it like this. Millions of people. Most people believe despite, let's say, their exterior, cheerful, you know, veneer, or they might have a somber veneer, we don't know. But despite their functional exterior, most people believe that existence is basically meaningless and it doesn't really have a higher purpose. It's nice to say stuff like that, but it doesn't really do that at all. It's not leading to anything. Life. There's no ultimate point or conclusion or reason for life. It's not, there's nothing like that. Things just arise, they move around a bit and then they vanish away forever and that's. It happens and then fades away. That's it. And maybe, maybe if you're lucky and smart, as the Americans say, you can have a reasonably pleasant time while you're doing it. You know, like we said before, you can work a bit, you can play a bit, kiss a nice girl, have a nice house, drive a nice car, have a laugh and then get old and die. And it's finished, man, it's finished. Thanks for nothing. It's all over. That's what most people think. They really do. I've grown up in England for 35 years. That is what most people think. I know they do, yeah. Many, many people think that around Europe, the world, Asia, Africa. I know they do. Sometimes we call it atheism. Many religious people think that secretly. Agnostics think that New ages secretly think that even though they pretend otherwise. Many people have this nihilist world worldview. If, if you have that, then you don't see purpose. If, if you don't see purpose, you don't have purpose. You've made it that you don't have a purpose, even though you were designed to have one by the Creator. You've jettisoned your purpose. So you just, you just do stuff to get by, to be okay, to run the clock out. If there's no understanding of purpose. Your individual life doesn't have one. And that is what Empire, which is what I call the system, the human administration of, in my view, a negative supernatural force. That's what Empire teaches us, that nothing means anything. So there's no purpose. Logically then, what we consider as things like truth and morality, principles, virtue, probity, destiny, big stuff like that, that's all just inventions of human beings. And we just make that stuff up to make ourselves feel better for five minutes. And it's just a load of bollocks. It's just not real. And it's a phenomena of science that carbon and nitrogen and DNA and colliding particles and stars in the sky and bits of rock and earth and air and water all come together and suddenly here you are. But it's all really soulless and futile and you mean all. Frankly, your life means nothing to anyone. And the minuscule number of people who do like you, they'll soon be dead and everything will be forgotten. Right, There's a cheery thought for you. That's what Empire teaches you. It wants you fundamentally to believe that when you believe that, you scroll. When you believe that, you look for something, something to do it. And what I'm provoking your listeners to think about, because I don't want to make it too easy on them, is, well, what's the alternative? On the other hand, is it possible? What, what if the world was designed and constructed intelligently from the outset? It didn't evolve from a load of bullshit. It was made, it was crafted, it was built by a vast higher dimensional super creator, something omniscient, all knowledge omnipotent, all power and omnipresent everywhere at once. And that living conscious being inhabits what we would think of as a dimension outside of time. And therefore it doesn't have a beginning, doesn't have an ending. People say, well, who made God? Well, no one. Because when you're outside of time, it doesn't have a star, it doesn't have an end. And fortunately for us, gladly, that entity that I'm talking about is loving and creative. And from his instinct, we'll call it a he for now. From his instinct to love and create. He made you. He made you, Anthony, and He made your children and your wife and your friends and your sister and your nephews. And he made everybody the creator of everything, the brilliant architect, the master builder, the loving craftsman. He made you. He. He designed the non physical element of you, your spirit, so called, which is, which is incredibly capable of living forever outside of Time. With his blessing. Not. Not by virtue of yourself, you'd be dead. With his blessing, though, he can take that spirit and transport it. That's what you are. Before that happens, though, he makes a physical vehicle, your body, for you to transport that spirit around and move it around this bloody, mysterious, polarizing earth classroom, right, where you are inescapably immersed in the teachings he wants to give you about good and evil and right and wrong and true and false, and they surround you 24 7. They are everywhere, all the time. To do that curriculum, all you've got to do is look, think, feel, reflect, and act accordingly. Right? That's. That's what we're talking about here. One final point. I'll hand it back over to you. What. What's also you. Seeing here is a very interesting thing, which is about, how can I say, worship, right? Because human beings, in my view, are made to worship something. And if. If you've got God, you know where to put it. If you've not got God, you don't know where to put it. In Greek, if you. If you open up a Bible in your New Testament, it's all written in Greek. Your Old Testament's all written in Hebrew. In Greek. In the New Testament, the word. One of the words that's often rendered as worship is the Greek word proscuneo, which means to revere, to respect, to lower yourself to something which you acknowledge is higher than yourself. And it may. It can literally mean to kiss or to fall flat on the ground. You know, prostrate on the ground. Yeah, we want to revere and respect something transcendent. We're built to do that. Something that really means something that has purpose. If you don't have God, you spend all your life looking for it. You think it's the environment. You think it's clean water. You think it's your favorite football team. You think it's movies or cars or sex or a girl or food or travel or culture or pictures, paintings, architecture. You. You elect something to become your focus of worship. Because you don't have God, you. You have to choose somewhere else. I. I knew a guy once who did it with. What do you call it? Formula one racing, right? He went to track meets, he went to the qualifiers. He went to race day. He knew all the teams. He traveled around Europe. He knew. He knew some of the mechanics and that. He knew the cubic capacities of all the Ferrari and McLaren engines, whatever. He knew the tire pressures. He knew the critical pit stop windows, everything. And if all that stopped because I knew I remember this guy, he'd be in a real mess because Formula One, that was his worship, he gave that meaning, he made that purpose. And his expertise, which he did have in motor racing, gave his life something that he was looking for, something, something higher than himself, something to worship. And in Old Testament lingo, when you do that, it's called idolatry, which God says, don't do that. It's very harmful to you. It does you no favors whatsoever and actually puts the safety of your soul at risk in a very precarious situation. I'll say again, when you're scrolling and looking, you're seeking God and you're doing a form of idolatry, you're looking for it where you know damn well it isn't. So I want to put that red flag on it that if anyone catches themselves doing that, it's not just psychologically and chemically harming for your brain. You're destroying your ability to focus when you do it. It's also a form of idolatry. You don't want to do that. It's not good. So I know I'm going all around the houses there, but I just want to get those points across because it connects to purpose, it connects to reverence, and that connects right back to this technology which keeps you chasing your own tail. It's designed specifically to do that.

This is why I enjoy speaking to you. And, and what's funny is from, just from what we spoke about, there's about four different ways I, I, you know, you'd like to take it. But if I roll back to your points about purpose, I was at an event earlier, say earlier this year, where it was last year, and it was called the Festival of Entrepreneurs, which is a really good event of lots of guys who are doing good things in the world. But one of the speakers there was a guy called Richard Harpin, and he's an English guy who is very down to earth, but he built an home serve, which was the thing where you, I think it gave you like insurance for your plumbing or what have you. But long story short, he made loads of ups. And as he said, I learned more from my fuck ups than I did everything else. But he.

Me too, me too.

Yeah. And, you know, it was good to hear him say that. But his point was that he sold home serve for 4 billion. I believe he, he had a 25 stake in it. So let's say he put a billion quid in his pocket. But one of his biggest messages was people would say that means you can Just do nothing now. And he said, I will work to the day I die because what's the point, point in doing this thing. And the, the further point of that for him was he said now it's not about just working, you know, it's not about making more money, but how can I have more impact by helping like he takes like medium sized British businesses that want to grow and help those. And it came for me. It was great to hear this guy who again, you know, billion quid in his pocket could do whatever he wants. And his thing was, I'm still hungry and I'm still here to help people.

Totally, totally. I. One of my clients was a Texas oil billionaire. Like you're the parallel to what you've just told me. Yeah. And he had everything and he sat with me and he said, you know, I don't know what to do on Wednesday afternoon. Now I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do on Saturday night. Now I don't know what to strive for. What am I missing here? And you can imagine what I told him, right?

Yeah.

And he changed what he was doing, changed what he was doing because he realized if you don't have a relationship with the thing that made you, you will spend all your life looking for an alternative. You will spend your entire time looking for something that looks a little bit like that, that scratches the itch that takes the edge off things. You'll spend your whole time doing it. CS Lewis, the brilliant Englishman. CS Lewis, he said, I'll have to remember this off the top made. I've not got it in front of me. History, human history, is the long terrible story of man trying to find something other than God, which will make him happy. And he said that in the 60s or whatever. And it's absolutely bang on. And when someone hears that, you can tell in your soul, you might not like it. You can tell that's true. The long, terrible story, that's, that's what scrolling just puts to one side so you don't have to fucking think about it. Yeah. That you can just make sure just for a second that you're filling yourself with methadone or whatever. It's bullshit. So once you start to get on that path of okay, you know, is, is there a creator? Is that true? Am I going to put that case into my thing and I'm going to try and evidence that, am I going to have a look for it? Is that true? Well, yeah, you've got a piece of work to do now. You've got to. You've got to look and see. Is that a thing? Because if it is a thing, it's the thing. There's nothing else. It's the only game in town and it changes the lot. Now, I know I'm evangelizing, might be losing a few people. I beg your pardon. But I'm telling you, there's not anybody more untrusting than me and more evidence based than me and more materialist than me at the start. Nobody. I am the detective who needs to see the evidence in the bags ready to go with a watertight case. Or you can stuff it up your ass. I'm not interested. I don't just believe stuff. I don't. There is a piece of work to do that's also part of, quote the work. Are you studying reality? Are you studying the spiritual nature of reality? If you're not, you're doing yourself an enormous disservice. And there's an itch that you'll never scratch. There's a. There's a pleasure you'll never have. There's a satisfaction you'll never find because it is only found in that. Only. So. There is a thing that a man looks for that he thinks is found in the world, and it's not. It's not found in the world. That's why in John's writings, he says, do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of God is not in you. Because everything that is in the world and all the desires and motivations and ambitions for that is not from God, but it's from the world. And that world, along with those desires and ambitions, is passing away. So don't do it. Don't get hypnotized by the classroom. The classroom cannot satisfy you. Cannot. But there's somewhat above the classroom that can. It's dead easy. It's not rocket science. This is dead easy. But every time you look at the world and go back into the hypnotism of it, you forget all this in two seconds. And your brain is swamped with stories and information and aspirations and false ideas and fictional narratives and fairy tales. It's gone. You've forgotten again. So half the battle is making sure to remember. Making sure. Like a Matrix guy. This is a matrix. It's not the thing. It's not the thing that can satisfy me. The There's a part of me that's above this and outside of this. And there's a creator above this and outside of this. The matrix is not without purpose. Its purpose is to teach me about essentially good and evil. That's what our progenitors asked for, and that's what we got. That's what we all got. You're having it now, you're getting it. That's the work. That's it. If you don't do that, if you don't believe that, if you like it or not, if you accept it or not, it makes all difference. If you're not doing that, you can never find the fulfillment that you're looking for because it's not found in the world.

I wonder how much value comes out of contribution to others, slash community. And last time we spoke, we spoke about the church not just being about a place to get together to do religious things, but to build a community and actually.

Right, totally.

It's funny, a year ago I. I was contemplating, which I remember you obviously said was a very integral part of, you know, the makeup of man. And I spend more time just doing nothing but kind of just thinking. And at the. At the point where I remembered, and we're going to come on to immigration in a minute, which links to politics and hence why we've got various avenues. But even for me, I realized I make a huge contribution to the men who are part of the whole man academy. And I know that because I have the testimonials and the results and the nice emails.

I know you do. I know you do. That's good work.

It feels a world away from when I worked in the city for 200 hours a month making loads of money for people generally I wouldn't meet. Whereas now, you know, I don't make as much money, but the amount of contribution I make is 10x.

Totally, totally.

But I then.

Me too. Same with me. I found the same thing. I know what you're saying. Totally.

And I don't think you can put a value on it. I mean, I can put a value on my time, as you can, I guess. But you know, on the emails, messages you get from guys that will say, in a way, I sometimes see my job as helping them remove their head from their ass, if that makes sense. But even for myself, I said, hold on, what. What am I doing apart from that? And even in my local community. So at Christmas, I was asked to do a reading at the church, and I'll tell you why. I said before, the church near us is beautiful little Cotswolds church and its numbers were dwindling, but at Christmas there was 110 people, so it was packed. And I stood at the front, in front of those 110 people, you know, with 220 eyes on me. And when I stood up there, just before I spoke into the microphone, I took a second or two just to kind of like take a snapshot of it to remember how great it was to see a whole community of young and old come together all, all at once, if that. Because it's, it's kind of rare these days and no one with phones, you know, no one's looking at their phone scrolling. And even in our own village, the

dumb scrollers, the, the scrollers at the back.

But because unfortunately the council are useless. I mean, all across the country now. I mean, Birmingham is officially bankrupt. I mean, it's unbelievable. But what that's bought in is that, that feeling that you've got villages like ours, that we spend a lot of money on tax, unfortunately, but that we don't get much for it. So I was out in the village when it was flooding. I dug a trench and cleared some drains with Hudson and Bowie so we could, you know, not have flooding.

Super, super, super, super.

We were out salting our own roads because the council clearly can't get round to, to doing that kind of stuff. And it's funny because those things I try and teach my sons, that might not seem a lot, but our neighbors were appreciative and the people that haven't crashed because we've salted the roads or the flooding, if I feel, if there was more of that around the country, I'm not saying the country be fixed by any means. But yeah, this, this also issue of if you've got people with different cultures and different backgrounds and different values, that is diluting maybe the community feel of the uk, which leads into immigration.

Diluting. Diluting is a very kind word.

Yeah, or up is another. But, but immigration has been a great topic. When I say great talk about. Because some people are so brainwashed to think that, you know, let's, let's open the borders and let anybody. In regards to. Regardless whether we know anything about them or not. I always try and take a look back at this and again, this links to politics, which is saying, you know, rightly so. You said you wanted to talk about. And so did I. Here's an interesting one for you.

The.

The government will know, of course, what they're causing the unrest in people by bringing in large groups of military aged men and there's very rarely women and children. And it's interesting now how social media, of course, can be fueled to make people Angry about it. And I understand they can, but what it makes people do is start focusing on the immigrants that are coming in instead of the people that are bringing them in.

That's right. Yeah. Very wise.

Which is really clever, if that makes sense.

Totally. Yeah. Yeah.

And one thing I'll notice is in this country there's been a whole thing about people putting Union Jacks up and of course, and you know, St. George's Cross and what have you. And what's funny is you get people that lose their mind because they say we shouldn't be putting our own national flags up. But I also wonder how much of that, and bear with me on a rabbit hole here, and my assumptions is that our army are losing vast numbers. And I think it's like for every 100 and for every 100 and like 16 that leave, only 100 rejoin. Therefore we don't have the numbers in our military anymore. But if you spread the entire country with Union Jacks and what have you, that in theory would increase a level of patriotism. So when they put in a draft, or, you know, what you call it when they want, you know, people to sign up, that you are going to increase the amount of. Level of feeling of patriotism for the country, which will bolster the numbers and then they can send them in the meat grinder off to. To get, you know, be cannon fodder. So any thoughts on that? I know it's just a. It's a random one to chuck in there.

Well, let me go back a step first before I answer that. I will answer that because you said a lot of interesting things. I just want to say we are expected to contribute to the community. You have. You have a civic duty. You do.

Yeah.

You have a community duty. You do. And you have a duty to meet with other people who are doing the same kind of things that you're doing to try and help each other. And when there's people who have fuck all and you've got more than you need, you have a duty to give something to them. You do. Again, that's very divinely aligned. That's normal historic Christian practice for 2000 years. We should do those things. It's not all self, self, self development, self this, self the other. It's not. There's things you need to do. The bloke who wrote the book of Hebrews in the New Testament, nobody knows who that is, by the way, but it's probably Paul or Barnabas or Luke or Silas, nobody's sure. But the writer of Hebrews says you Have a responsibility to stir one another up and to love and to do good works. Don't neglect to meet together, as is the habit of some people, but rather meet together to encourage one another. So that again, is a divine ordination. That's like solid, solid, solid information. We have an obligation to do that. So thank heavens a good dad like you is teaching his kids to do that stuff, because it is. You should do. You should do those things. Okay. I just wanted to say that because you said such an important thing, I just wanted to echo it, honestly.

Yeah.

With it. With immigration. Hell, that's a big topic in it. We can talk about that for just three hours. I suppose with immigration. My view is, I think, like anyone with the head screwed on. All your listeners are not going to be surprised by a word I say here. If immigration is well ordered and sensibly controlled and it represents the natural movements of people, it's. There's no problem. It's only a problem when it's used as a weapon to destroy homogeneous, settled peoples. That's when you've got a problem.

Yeah.

For example, replacing centuries of, let's say, let's pick a place, high quality Swedish culture with rubbish Muslim culture as what's been happening for 40 years in Sweden. And it's wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Completely unwanted by the people of Sweden. And it's expressly, purposefully designed to destabilize that amazing country. And the same is happening with many, many targeted. In particular, targeted countries like Britain, Germany, France, Belgium, Switzerland, Spain, Greece, places like that. Some places like Hungary and Poland and Italy are doing a little better because of more thoughtful leadership. But it's still an uphill battle. Italy are just about stemming the tide. But I tell you, it's been a tough one. I've been been there the past few years myself, so I've seen it with my own eyes. They're fighting against something, those countries, which is a monster, which in Revelation is. Is called the beast. It's not a person, it's not an antichrist, it's a system.

Yeah.

And that beast is represented by swats like Tony Blair and Peter Mandelson. K star Emmanuel Macron, Pedro Sanchez. That's the Spanish pm, Ursula Vonda. What's her name? Leon the.

Yeah.

European Commissioner Antonio Costa, the President of the European Council, Magdalena Anderson in Sweden, Tinaka Strick in the Netherlands. Atrocious, destructive policies designed to hurt centuries and in some cases millennia of native culture, native English culture, say. And those those people have named are enemies of everybody. Those names are enemies of Us.

Yeah.

The fact is, what Empire wants is massive countries with no heritage, no identity, no history. But here's the thing. Above all, what do they always have in common? No Christianity. They never. They never pull in to replace populations with Christians. Unheard of. They never do that. They pick on people who are doing something else. And as you very wisely and maturely say, if I may say, don't focus on the Pakistanis ruining Birmingham. That's a mistake. Don't do that. They're just economic migrants, first, second, third generation, looking for a better way of life. If I lived in Pakistan, I'd go to Birmingham. I would. So would you. Don't focus on the immigrants who might annoy you or look different or smell different or be unappreciative. They're horns on the chessboard. Don't worry about those things. It's who's doing it and why.

Yeah.

Never get too pissed. Over here, it's Mexicans. In England, it's Pakistanis. In Greece, it's whatever. In Italy, it's Albanians. You know, it's like there's always one race that typifies it. In Sweden, it's Turks. Right. Annoying. But don't focus on them because that's. That would be a mistake. Don't start to get annoyed with people who look and smell and talk different and dress different to you. That. That would be a mistake. Don't do that. You may be annoyed. You're allowed to be. You don't need to keep your mouth shut. You can say whatever you like. You might get locked up for it, but you can say whatever you like. Here it's a bit easier because we actually can say, stop.

Yeah.

Whereas in England, I might have been. Spent a few nights behind bars by now, I think.

A bit of porridge.

Yeah, yeah, do a bit of porridge. That's an old term. I like that one. Yeah. A bit of stir they call it as well, don't you? That's another old one. So I think immigration is complicated because it. You've got to not look at the individuals per se. You've got to look at the orchestration. They've done this before, many times, going back to Babylon and Egypt, thousands and thousands of years ago, 3, 4, 5, 6,000 years ago. This has happened before. It's not a new tactic. We've not seen it, though. We've not seen it. Anyone alive today has never really seen this before. Unless you come from a very peculiar place like the Ivory coast or something, then you might have seen small versions of it. Yeah, but most people have never seen this. It's an old trick. It's a really old trick, which is destroying national heritage, destroying pride in what Englishmen have created, which is some of the best in the world. No question.

Yeah.

Americans create some of the best in the world. The Germans create outstanding things. My favorite country. Outstanding. They're the ones who got especially targeted, which is a whole other conversation. I'm not going to get into the Second World War like I'm a secret Nazi. I'm not a secret Nazi. That's not that. But who we think are good and bad and what wars were fought for. I hope by now we're seeing there's some very serious question marks in that. So what you have to do is again, recognize is it all going to hell in a handbasket, Everything's fucked up. Well, that's part of what the picture is. That's part of what happens. That towards the end, as is written about in many important biblical books and apocryphal books and revelatory books and pseudepigraphal books, that is things close to the Bible but not quite, and a large body of what I would describe as the most credible literature we have in the modern world or in the ancient world, that literature describes a situation towards the end where there are a lot of problems that we're describing out there inside, locally, internationally, whatever. And it's. And it's saying it's not that. It's all just going to. It represents a polarization increase. What I mean by that is if you've come to Earth to refine your knowledge of what's true and false and what's good and bad morally and what's good and evil supernaturally and essentially to get yourself together, to get straight, to get uncrucked, unbent. That's what this is for. That's, in my view, while we're all why we're here, that's your purpose, if you've come here to do that. The biblical text, in my view, presents a picture that towards the end it gets full, very black and white, very, very stark. The differences between the two, where there's. There's a big. There's a big difference. There's a big, big difference. Not to mess with you, not to punish with you, not some pointless tribulation, but to say, just so no one can make a mistake, just so no one can say, I didn't know. It's not fair. I didn't know I was supposed to discern things. Oh, yes, you did. Yes, you totally did. So they make it ridiculous, improbable, absurd, unlawful nonsense. So you can see it.

Yeah.

And then excellent, High quality, beautiful, sagacious brilliance of human beings. Loving, creative, excellent people. There they are. And you can see them. They're all shapes and sizes. They're all colors from all backgrounds. It's not set to a particular kind of people. Not at all. It's the quality of the soul. Totally. You can see that out there in the world. You don't need the screen to tell you. You don't need the screen to tell you. You don't need a consensus on it. You have to foster the view for yourself. You have to determine for yourself what's true and false. That is the work. The polarization at the end and the absurd situation of things is part of the. Part of the deal. We were warned about this literally 2,000 years ago. So we talked about Paul writing to Thessalonica before for a different purpose. In that same couple of letters, he says a few things because basically he was setting up a new community in Thessalonica. Spiritual people. Just like you might do, just like I might do, Just like that. But as you might say, with God's blessing, there's the big difference. And he's basically warning this early spiritual community that they might be in danger of receiving false communications from people. False letters impersonating Paul and his friends and warning that the last day of time, the end of the world is coming fast. And everyone was shitting themselves. And Paul says, listen, lads, don't worry about that, because there's a few things that have to happen first before that happens. One of them is a radical falling away from faith, from moral standards, from common sense. And one of them is the exposure of this mysterious figure, the man of lawlessness or perdition, both of which these events, this falling away, this apostasy and this exposure of this wicked person, when they've happened, then you. Then you can say, oh, we're kind of near the end. He also says, oh, and by the way, there'll be a bunch of people who will not welcome the truth. Even when it's black and white in front of them. Yes, even when it's inescapable right there in front of them. It couldn't be said better. Absolutely. At their fingertips. They would rather believe delusions than that. He says that specifically. Specifically things that a normal person would never fall for in a million years. But if you don't like the truth, normal people will fall for intelligent, good, quote, small G, decent, nice people. Will fall for it. They'll buckle to the social pressure. Then they have no commitment to truth, no purpose. And they will willingly and disgracefully believe what is false, such as it's okay to murder unborn babies. No one ever thought that a man can be a woman if he thinks he is. No one ever thought that homosexuality is a biological state and not just a behavior. No one ever thought that homosexuality is just a behaviors. Nobody's born gay. Nobody ever, ever. Not once. Not ever. Nobody. It's okay to have sex with children. No. All the races are essentially the same. No. No, they're not. Covet was a dangerous virus. Nope, nope. All that stuff, that is massive pressure to believe those things because the screen tells you. Because a manufactured voice of consent tells you those things are true. They are delusion. Delusion. In the Greek it says plane energia or plan energia, which means an error from divine origin. It's like God is saying, I'm going to put something out there that's so retarded and so stupid, so inescapably and unmissably stupid, that it will expose anybody who loves false things.

Yeah.

Do you see what I'm saying? It's like it draws in people who love untruth. It draws them in. And he puts that out there to say there's this deluding influence that will expose people who don't like the truth. But instead, as he says, takes, take pleasure in unrighteousness. Now that's a funny word, unrighteousness today because we don't use it anymore. It just means being a wanker, basically. If you're being a wanker because you don't care in apathetic and selfish. That's what an unrighteous person is. So, you know, he says, he says, he warns us of what's coming. A falling away from common sense. A strong delusion. As I say. This is in second Thessalonians. You can read it for yourself. And the revelation of this man is a bad person. Many Christians, I'd say 70% of Christians think the revelation of that bad person is what they call the Antichrist, which is a very, very common view. Most Europeans, I would say, think that. Certainly most Americans think that. I think that's a false view. I don't think the text supports that at all. A smaller percentage of Christians think that the man of lawlessness is something completely different. It is, in fact, the office of the Roman Catholic papacy, the popes. That's what the man of lawlessness is. It's not an individual, it's an office, which you see that a lot in Revelation. That kind of talk, they talk about a system or an office or a role cast as an individual. It's not. It's not a minority view, though. Initially, some of the most heavy hitters in Christian thought, like Martin Luther, John Calvin, Ulrichs Vingley, John Wycliffe, one of the best men ever to set foot in England, Jan Hus, William Tyndale, another astonishing Englishman. William Tyndale and John Wycliffe. Go and look. Who. Go and look them up. If you ever want to admire someone and need a real hero, go and look up John Wycliffe or William Tyndale and a Scotsman, John Knox. All those guys, they all thought that the papacy's claims to supreme spiritual authority and its role in defining Christian doctrine and its cultural autocracy was a gross distortion of Christian reality. A gross distortion. And so we had at that time, in the 1500s, a reformation, where they said, roman Catholicism is not Christianity. We're going to do it differently. And so, in a manner of speaking, that's when the Christianity that is attempting to get back to historic Christianity began only four or five hundred years ago, only then. And so, you know, it's. It's. That's a big, big deal. That's a big deal. But my point is, there's a bit of a side trail. Forgive me. My point is what's happening in the world, if you know the theological picture is no surprise. The polarization, the immigration, the strong delusions of people believing stupid, is exactly what these guys are saying when this stuff comes. Guess what, folks, you near the end now, that's not a disaster. You don't need to lose it. It means the thing is, wrapping up the lessons and the curriculum is nearly at its. Its conclusion.

It's needed.

You're coming towards the end of something here.

Yeah.

And just to give you an extra boost, and because God loves you, he's making it dead easy to choose what's true, to choose what's right. Dead easy. If you avoid that, you're in very, very serious trouble.

It shows you. And I think you're so right with the fact that some people, like you said beautifully, like, you know, it could be right at their fingertips and they still wouldn't be able to see it or smell it or feel it or, you know.

Right, right.

I always think back to the great Monty Python sketch where they. One of the guys slaps the other one in the face with a fish on the.

On the. On the dark side that's it.

And you know, with some people, you could hit them with, you know, whatever the truth is, you know, in the face as a wet fish and they'd still.

Totally. Yes, that's so funny.

I missed it. And interestingly, I know you wanted to talk about, and I can't remember if you said specifically politics or elections, but.

Elections. Yeah, that might be five minutes on that, but I'll say five minutes, it'll be longer.

It's. It's really interesting to talk about because what I'm seeing at the moment in the uk, and obviously you're us now, so maybe you can dip in and out of what's going in the uk, but I obviously have.

Yeah, I do, obviously. I keep my eye on it. I speak to my mom and dad every week on Zoom, so I've got friends there. So I'm Anglo American, for sure. Yeah.

You can smell what's going what. What I find so interesting is talking to real people, be it neighbors, clients, friends, what have you, and, and quietly picking a scab to see what their thoughts are on politics. And I'll tell you where a lot of momentum is going at the moment and the media pushing is, Is taking. Is they're. The media are now happy to dish. Sorry, like kick, kick labor into the dirt, basically. And they're more than happy to do that because I believe they want people to vote for reform, which has its serious problems as well. But, and that goes to my belief of they are all. Nobody would get into politics who is actually going to make a difference. They will all lead you to the final destination. It may be a different route, but that's what I see in the media now. And it's interesting, I speak to some people that were quite hard labor supporters and up to six months ago were going, well, you know, we need to give like, you know, Kia Stalin a chance. And now we're saying, you know, I, it's too much like. And now I'd consider voting for reform. And I find it really interesting because again, when you zoom out, which I trying to do as best I can, of course.

Yeah.

You can see how people's perception of them is. Yeah, well, they're rubbish now. We wouldn't vote for him, but we'll definitely vote for these guys. They'll sort it all out. So, yeah, that's where I am with it. I, you know, I wouldn't vote for any of them. Although I might believe that local elections are important to vote in because, you know, who's representing you locally is important but in the bigger picture they are all cretinous. Basically. I'll hand it over to you and see what your thoughts are on, on elections because again it's, you know, are they all fixed? Are they all controlled? Is there anything with it?

Right, right. Okay, I'm with you. What you said about laboratories reform or whatever. I'd rather look at Nigel Farage than Keir Starmer. But not much. Yeah, not much. I've always been Christian values. I've always been conservative. I've never been socialist or labor or communist or anything like that. So I am, I am a dyed in the wool conservative in my life view, not my politics. Yeah, I've never been a member of the Conservative party. I wouldn't. I usually vote it because they have more Christian aligned principles, more self reliance principles which I think are critically important. But I've never been a political person. I don't get involved in politics. But let's, let's just say something about elections. As I was thinking, I want to say something to Anthony about this but I don't want to go into tons and tons and tons of data. So it's just too much. It's just too much. And it's not very interesting frankly either. But what I want to do is present a scenario to you, right? To the listener, to you. To the listener that I think is very important. And it we're going to say, we're just going to imagine this, okay? We're not going to say this is real. I just want you to imagine something. So imagine the following situation, right? Imagine that voting, as you said, is not real. Let's just imagine it's not. Right? Elections are not real. All over the world for all our lifetimes and centuries before, maybe elections are not real. They're simulated, they rigged, they faked. Whatever you want to say from day one. Yeah, let's just imagine that was true. It's like a science fiction movie. Everyone's vote never meant anything. So all the key figures in most major world governments are not actually elected. They're just put there by somebody. And goodness knows how many thousands of politicians were never legitimately empowered. Yet of course they go along, don't they? And enact all these very bold policies that shape people's lives. Ridiculous laws, economic ruin, Shameless, stupid stuff about medicine and immigration and sex education and gender. Stupid, absurd, offensive nonsense, Dreadful public education, dreadful medicine, repressed technology, totally contrived wars, right? All by unelected people. All of them all. And all therefore false. All unnecessary. Okay, so imagine that, that Was true. Just imagine.

Yep.

And then imagine that a bunch of people who are not like that, who are decent, good, got together and said, we've got to do something about this. One of the first things they'd have to realize is that if they just exposed the whole thing that elections are false in one giant sting and exposure operation and told the whole world about it overnight, it would be catastrophic to society, too much to the mental welfare of normal, nice but inattentive people. And yes, it's too much. I think it would be so devastating that it trigger a massive social and civil collapse total and you'd actually, you'd have a worse problem than you used to have. So they, to preserve some sort of social order, the good guys, knowing there's a problem with elections, instead decide upon a protocol of gradual revelation of this fraudulence and they seed it into the media, the mainstream and the independent media. Drip, drip, drip, bit by bit. Yeah, and the mainstream narrative deployments always, even by the good guys being sort of gross theatrical productions in order to grab attention. Think Donald Trump. The independent deployment of a narrative, whether it's actual, whether it's fake, whether it's theatrical, is all that matters. The story is what matters. The actual events at this stage doesn't matter because we've not got anything real yet. We're just putting into the idea, is it possible that the science fiction thing of no elections is true? Is that possible? Right, then imagine that this exposure project was, was sort of jump started by interrupting the traditional fake electoral process and actually installing one of their own people into the office of President of the usa. Okay, so think about this. When you have only fake elections, there's no possibility of having a real election, whether you want good or bad, because there's no apparatus that we've ever had to do it. Yeah. It's just not there. So they too just put their guy there like everyone else has always done. Now they might have been able to do it under the guise of legality that actually, strangely enough, there was a legitimate vote. But they don't have to. You don't need to worry about that. But let's say they get this, quote, good president in and his job is not just to expose it, but it's to dismantle the old infrastructure to make the old system inoperable. And as we said, you know, the next step is to initiate this gradual exposure of this treachery of politicians and of the media who support it and the good president, you know, it only need in the States, say a single Term four years to reorganize essential legal and military components assets so they can protect the vital infrastructure during a transfer of powers which they call over here continuity of government devolution. The country here at that time would technically be in a state of continuity of government whilst the prior illegitimate authorities were being devolved away from the old political edifices and the people who were hopelessly compromised were taken to one side and either flipped or imprisoned or executed. Right. Imagine. We're just imagining here. Don't worry. We're just imagining. At the end of that good president's term, imagine this. He would purposefully allow the bad guys to reinstate their fake electoral system one more time and again install a quote, fake president. Though actually that would help the good guys to accelerate the exposure project because you'd see it, you'd see the difference. Another piece of theater. Another sort of. What would you call it these days? Live action role play.

Yeah.

And you know, the ineptitude of the fake government, the artificiality and the immorality of it. You don't shy away from that. You let people see it. You let people see it. And the association then is gradually made between fake elections, a fake government and our fake life. And that you realize you're in a fake society that literally was not shaped by its own will, not shaped by the leaders that we elect to help administrate. Not shaped by that. And throughout that sort of enormous. What would you call it, Revelatory project, they can also now which they couldn't do this in prior times. The good guys can use very advanced technology to simulate people being in certain places and saying certain things.

Yeah.

At certain times. Which didn't actually happen at all. And the bad guys can do a bit of that. But the good guys have the better technology. It would be very. Think this is the hard bit to grasp. If that weren't enough. It would be very hard for people to witness the dishonesty and corruption of everything. Despite the fact that most people know it's true, they still want it all just to go away and go back to how it used to be.

Yeah.

Where we pretended that Margaret Thatcher was doing something nice or John Major was doing something. He saw something like that. Or Winston Churchill was a great hero. We want to go back to pretending

that it feels safe, doesn't it?

It feels safe and nice and you know where you're at that the, the good guys know that. So this is what they do. It takes place over 30 years a generation long exposure operation acclimatizes people to get used to that change, Then the new people who come in have always seen it's. They never were under any illusion whatsoever. And when a certain, you know, critical mass is reached, it's not. It's never a consensus, it's never a majority. It's just a critical mass. A final incontrovertible exposure can take place where you've got even worse levels of evil and degradation and illegitimacy in world leadership where we are now. And you could say, okay, we don't want to do this. This is wrong. This is wrong. And here's the kicker. At the end, I believe what the good guys are going to do is have a worldwide existential scare event just so nobody misses what's going on, just so there's every reason in the world after that turns out to be okay, and nothing to do things properly for the first time ever, whatever. Ever.

What do you think that could look like? Because I always go back to. Obviously.

Go ahead.

I was gonna say 911 was a great example of something that shook the world. Obviously, there's many flaws in the story, but the point is that everybody was affected by it in one another. And then, of course, I would wager that the next thing, if in my lifetime, I'm talking about, you know, the next thing would then be the COVID Sure, sure.

911 and covered. Yeah.

Which are the two big ones. So it makes you wonder what. You know, if you and I sat there and said, right, we get to choose what. Go on.

I'll tell you. 911 was local. It only affected a few thousand people. As horrible as it was, and as I don't believe it was 19 Arab hijackers, of course, no one who's looked at it would ever think that. But what it was, it killed a bunch of people, and it was fucking awful, and it was a disgrace, and those people are going to be held accountable. But it was local. It wasn't an existential threat to anyone who'd lived outside of New York. Covid was also, despite the news coverage, very clearly wasn't an existential threat. I would say nobody died of COVID Nobody. But we won't get. We won't worry about that. Yeah, but it looked like it was. But it wasn't. Still not the same thing.

It was the reaction to it, that everybody was affected by the reaction to it.

Yeah, yeah. But most people, after a few months, if they. If they did the research, realized, you know what? This isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. It's weird doing quarantines and things like that and wearing masks for people. But everybody realized nobody was shoveling corpses out of the street. That never happened. And when we saw things that looked like that they turned out to be something else.

Yeah.

So that they realized that also is not an existential worldwide thing. A worldwide thing would be one of two things according to the people who plan these things. In my understanding. Number one is a nuclear war and number two is a threat from outside of the planet. Either they take the bold step of making it look like it's non human intelligence coming in to give us a hard time or a comet strike a big one.

Yeah.

Or you know, something goes wrong with the sun. Something like that. Something that's out of this world quote. And you can do all about it and only tell you what's going on. Yeah. So nuclear war or off world. Let's just say that. So we don't want to sound too romantic about it. Too silly. So I think that's what they're going to do. But it unlike previous times it wouldn't be the bad guys doing it. I don't think that's true. I think it's to rattle people. Now if that doesn't happen because people come to the senses. Perfect. That's a contingency measure.

Yeah.

I don't have much faith in human beings because I know how lazy and stupid they are. I was one of them too until I came to Miss Sentences and stopped being a wanker.

All been there before.

Yeah. We've all done it. We've all just been selfish and just playing our own game. When you snap out of that you realize how most people are still trapped in it. If you want to just put it that way. So you know some. The Scare event is to rattle people. Is to rattle people. That's what it's for. Let me say one more thing about elections as well.

Yeah.

Just to put this into perspective because I know we're coming not far from the end of the time. Note this about elections. Right. If you think anything I said about elections. Because obviously when I say imagine this, I'm doing it with a twinkle in my eye. If you understand me. When you. When I say imagine this about elections, imagine we've never had a real one. I mean it. I'm not joking. But if you think that's a tall order and that can't be right because too many people would know. Think about this. Normal people like you and me have only been voting for about 100 years in human history. That's it, that's all. 100 years of apparent voting. If you check your history books, and let's imagine that half of it's true, even the flat normal everyday enemy written history books, they have to concede that Prior to the 19th century, voting in the UK was essentially restricted to landowners, and not just landowners who met a certain annual land value quota. If you didn't own a certain amount of land and the cost that went with that, you couldn't vote. That number of people who could vote represented about 4% of the population. So from when England was formally founded In, I believe, 9, 27 AD, technically right up to the 19th century, 95% of Englishmen had no say, no voice, no influence whatsoever in what was going on. Who ruled? Who ruled them? None. None. Voting only became a thing in the mid-1800s for this group and then another group with total open voting only available to everyone in 1928 in England, which is today at the time of this recording, less than 100 years ago. Right, yeah. So think about that. In the blink of an eye, One measly little century, Empire said to itself, you know, I think we can mimic free and fair elections and we can give the plebs the illusion that they're choosing stuff. Yeah, that could be. That could be handy. We'll run a piece of theater. We'll have a pantomime with these, with blue ribbons and these with red ribbons, and they'll run around and do stuff. And you've got Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair and John Nature, whoever, and some of the, you know what, some of the actors know it's an act, but the lovely thing is most of them don't. Yeah, they don't. They themselves are also caught up in the theater, which keeps the whole intelligence operation very nice and contained. There's only a small number of people who know what it is. So I'll say it again. We've only had elections, fake elections at that, for about 10 decades here in the States. Again, look in your history books. It was only in the mid. Same thing, in the mid-1800s, ordinary people gained access to the vote. And guess what? Finally they abolished the property qualifications to vote. As in England, land ownership. And it was only in the early 20th century that Americans could vote, regardless of race, gender, class, money. So you've got to put that into context with this. There is absolutely no way Empire is ever going to allow ordinary people to fucking influence the government. No way. No real voting for actual government could ever, ever be permitted. We've never had it and you might even say, in some ways, you could even agree with that, because sometimes you look at the voting public and think, what the would they know anyway?

Who let them make decisions?

The stupid, uneducated normies might not be in a position to exercise good conscience and wisdom in casting a sound, rational vote. That might be true. Right. We're not arguing that at the moment. That's not what we're articulating it. What we're saying is that voting is fake. For right or wrong. Yeah, is fake. And I think that that changed for the first time in history in November 2016, when Trump came into power. His job is to wreck things for Empire. He's not a savior, he's a figurehead. He's a rhinoceros. He's bombastic and odd. He says ridiculous things on purpose all the time that turn out to be something quite different when you wait and see. And that's what I think they did. That's what I think they did with him. His mission is to destroy the old system across America first, and then when the world see how that benefits this place, they'll want it, too. So here's the punchline, right? Empire has only had to worry about simulating elections for 100 years now. That system has been dramatically compromised despite their prior mainstream media domination, which is what makes elections work. They've lost control of that. And people, for the first time, as normal people, are starting to question election integrity. That might sound like a really boring topic. It's absolutely vital, Empire, that you think you're choosing stuff because you're not. And that is. That is a massive problem for them. And you can say a lot of things in the world and you'll be left alone, but if you go after elections, that's the one thing. It's worse than being a Holocaust denier. Yeah, it's worse than. It's worse than being a racist. It's worse than anything. If you start going after elections, you know, you're. They've got your number and that in the States now the cat's out of the bag. We know that that's a thing here now. It does and it is. It's not just here, it's everywhere. That's the thing. It's going to spread, you watch.

Well, I was going to say in the uk, I mean, not just politics, but like you kind of said, things have become so ridiculous that you wonder what it would take. And I know we spoke about this on the, on the previous podcast when we said, you know, people are so busy Looking down at their phones or the TV or just. And also maybe just trying to exist and pay the bills which I totally understand.

Yeah.

With the cost of living in the UK it is, it is having a big effect on people. But I often wonder, I mean I've. I've spent more time over the last five years looking at US and UK politics. Before then I just didn't give a. To be honest. But I realized how much Right. They pull the strings and what I found interesting was the. The power that Israel had over US politics and also UK politics. What I've learned in the last few years and it was really interesting. There was a, a clip the other day of. It was like a. I know for one of a better phrase like the Select Committee or something in the UK where all of the members. It had to state if they had any. What's it called, you know when you.

Prior interests or whatever.

That's it. I think 8, 8 of the 11 when they were in a mistake in it like that's it. They. They had to admit that they were either. And they were funded by you know, friends of Israel or they were members of it or one lady said oh actually sure, I'm not a part but my husband is Lord Whoever who's head of the anti Semitism. And it's. It's just really interesting how in the US I remember when they were bringing in the. I think it was the New York mayor and they were doing the TV debate and the first question they were all asked if they got into power was where what would you do first? And I think eight of the nine or whatever said I'd go straight to Israel. And it was like that's interesting. But it's funny over here because of course the media are very strongly pushing that you can't talk about that stuff at all. And it frustrates me because I think that all. All topics should allow exploration. Of course with a sensible head if that makes sense. Which then leads you on to kind of Zionism and what have you which I' just find so interesting because I'd never really contemplated. But then you've got anything to say. I know again, it's not like a two minute topic.

Yeah. You keep saying these huge things and we get like so little time. But it's a lovely problem to have. So I'm glad you're doing it. Well, I say a few things on that. Yeah. I think Israel were calling the shops in the states until 2015.

Right.

It looks like they are but I don't believe that anymore. Because I know how the system works, I think.

Yeah.

And they don't. They have a quarter of it, but not, not more than that. They have something, but not more than that. Israel is a very complicated problem because the history of it is so incendiary. What's going on there?

Yeah.

And the difference between a Zionist and an ethnic Jew and a Judaic practitioner are very, very important distinctions which get lost and just say it's the, it's the Jews or whatever. Yeah. That, that. You've got to be very careful, not because you're afraid to speak, but because there's critically important distinctions.

Yeah.

Between the political Zionism, which is essentially to say we want this land and protect it, between Judaism, which is an anti Christian religion, which it is. They deny Christ from top to bottom. That's not, that's not a controversial thing, it's just a fact. And Jewish ethnicity, which is like any other ethnicity. It's just to do with your ancestry. You've got, you've got to separate those things out, which perhaps we'll get to another time. For now, what I'd say is let me put this into the smallest space I can because that is a big subject. If somebody came to me and said, oh, this Empire thing, Neil, what is that? Well, I say it's, it's the human administration of a negative supernatural force. We won't worry about what that is for now. But as you know, I'm a Christian. You can imagine what all that points to kind of fallen angels and satanic things and all that. But as soon as you start like that, you lose a lot of people because they, they, they think that's mythology. So we're not going to go there.

Yeah.

We'll just say it's a crooked system. Okay.

Yeah.

How does that work? Okay, there's four pillars of it. The religion is Rome, which is Vatican city state, not Italy. The money, you'll know. This is the city of London.

Yeah.

1.1 square miles. That's not England, it's the city of London. It's different. The Military is Washington D.C. districts of Columbia. That's not America, by the way. And here's, here's our bit. Where's the administration and media? Israel, or specifically the. The square foot of Jerusalem. 48 square foot of square miles of Jerusalem. Square foot square miles of Jerusalem. Guess what? That's not quite the same thing as Israel. It's not.

Yeah.

So Vatican City, state, city of London, Jerusalem, quote. And the districts of Columbia are not Italian, British, Israeli or American. They're not. That's the religion, the money, the military. So Rome, religion, London, Money, D.C. military, Israel administration and media.

Yeah.

That's how they do it. That's empire. Those are the columns of empire. Again, I can point you to where this comes from and where this is voiced in scripture. Not specifically those locations, but how they do it. So you can't say it's the Jews, it's the bloody Italians, it's the bloody English, it's the bloody Americans. You can't say that because it's not a racial thing. It's not. It doesn't come into it at all. The Israelis do a brilliant job of information management. It's exceptionally good. The British control international finance. People don't realize that. You probably do, but they do. It's not New York, it's not Tokyo, it's London. Everything goes through there, otherwise it doesn't happen. Yeah. Rome decides what Christianity looks like to the ordinary people still. And that's not. That's not Christianity, though. It's not. It's. It's Romanism, which is something else. You get good Catholics, of course. I'm sorry. If you're a Catholic, I'm not having to go at you. I'm not on about ordinary people. I'm talking about the controllers.

Yeah.

And dc, the military, America going around, around with everything. That's not Americans, that's not constitutional, that's not elected presidents. They don't do that. They didn't do that in Venezuela recently either, by the way. Which is another story.

That's another rabbit hole. Yeah.

That's from top to bottom, and I can show you why. But the key thing is to say that it's an internationalist effort, empire. It's not a bunch of people sat in a room over here. It's an international effort. Now, you take heads of those things and you can put them in one room. That's true. And just like terrorist cells operate, the guy in the next office has no clue what's going on. And the guy in office over from him has even less clue what's going on. Yeah. And by the time you get to the people who are doing the majority of the work, they've literally no idea what's going on. None. So you say, well, with something this big, surely there'd be so many whistleblowers, you'd be falling over each other. No, no. You can actually do it very tightly, as people have done in wars. It's very effective. But the key thing with Israel is the media. They control how Things. Look around the world. All the media is Israeli owned, as you probably know that. All our big media around the world in Europe and America is owned by Israelis. All of it. And that's because that's their job. They do the media bit, the intel. Yeah, it's one, one pillar of four. So you can't say it's just these are these, it's, it's a cooperative job empire. And prior to this we have other iterations of it, but we won't go back into history. But Babylon had a version of it. Persia had a version. Version of it. Greek, the Medians had a version of this. The Greeks had a version of this same thing. And then guess what Scripture says Rome will do it as a military thing that does it all. And then just near the end they'll split it and they'll become internationalist. And that, that was written about 1400 BC, some of it in Genesis, but most of it in Daniel, which is a, an Old Testament book. Daniel has the roots of why all of this stuff, stuff is happening. It's very, very important. It's, it's hard to read because you won't know what you're looking at. It's a, it's a, A very, what would you call it, symbolic book. But that symbolism is decoded by the book itself. It tells you what it is. It's not some. Dan Brown. I don't mean that.

Yeah, yeah.

It's a book that has codes in it and the decoding in it. And that stuff tells you about a lot of things that then if you don't know Daniel, you can't really understand Revelation, which was written the last book of the Bible. You'd never really understand it. Daniel's book where he talks about this stuff was written an awful long time ago. So when he's writing that book, he's saying things that affect us today. And that was a faith key for me because it's so perfectly described and it's so unambiguous. It's so, it's so, the clarity of it is so standout. That was one of a hundred little keys for me that thought, do you know what? I can't disregard this Christianity, prophecy stuff. There's something to it over and over and over again. But my special study at the time, 25, 30 years ago was empire. And my biblical knowledge started to blossom because I realized they were telling us all about it. Not open to speculation, not ambiguous, not reading into it that isn't there. Very explicit, very, very explicit about times and places and armies and countries. And this is military, this is religious, this is local, this is transnational. Stuff like that. It's incredible. So very little of what I'm saying to you is, is mine. I'm not giving you any novel content as such. I'm giving you an interpretation. And I, I, believe me, I try my best to make it unbiased.

Yeah.

And unprejudiced. Because when you dare to ever say anything about God, you need to not, otherwise you'll kick your ass in the biggest way ever. You don't do that. You try and say it as true as you can.

Yeah.

And I don't want to mislead anybody listening to this, so I'm saying it as true as I can. But that stuff you want to know about empire, study the book of Daniel in the Old Testament. It's only short. Study the book of Revelation in the Old Testament. That's like 30 years work. But it's all there. It's all there. It's absolutely incredible.

You said in the email, I think when we were chatting before the podcast, you said, and it's a great term. I'll give my two, two penneth. And you know, that's all it is. Yeah, that's it. People that don't know it's. And, and this is what I always say is, you know, the more people you listen to that can talk about these subjects, you know, be it as you said, like kind of the four pillars of, you know, the money side of it, the religion, the media, you know, the, the military machine. And actually just as we're recording this, I mean, in the last few weeks now, gold and silver, if we could talk about the financial side very briefly, but gold and silver are at basically an all time high. I mean they, I believe the markets are massively manipulated and have been suppressed for a very long time. But you understand, as society scrambles around to work out what to do with inflation, one way is to move money out of fiat currencies into physical gold and silver, or yes, hold it in vaults like digitally, if that makes sense. And we're at that stage now where, you know, you say 10 years ago I was reading books around the deliberate plan to get rid of cash, but also the gold and silver would go to the fucking moon, which they have done in the last, steadily, but in the last couple of weeks, as you see, they've, they've gone bananas. But what do you think? My long term belief is that the dollar and the pound go to zero, which sounds so unbelievable because obviously we're so used to the dollar being the strong world currency, as it were. But I, you know, for me I just look and think inflation is, doesn't seem too bad at the moment. Like it's not ridiculous yet and it hasn't woken people up. But I still wonder, you know, how quickly society would disintegrate if, you know, inflation ran out of control. And you know, when you're seeing gold and silver, there's spikes in the price. Now it shows that a lot of people are, I mean I know a gold bullion dealer and he basically was totally out. He had nothing to sell because, you know, people are taking it as soon as he could get it. Where do you see the financial side of things going in the next couple of years? I know it's a, it's a crystal ball type thing, but do you think that's part of the, of the economy gets destroyed which wakes people up and resets things?

Well, I'll be honest with you, it's very, very outside of my field this. So I, I don't want to start saying irresponsible things.

Yeah.

So I can't speak about specifics. I don't know anything about markets and property and precious metals and crypto other than what one or two friends tell me. I know nothing about those things. I'm not a market watcher. I don't understand numbers very well in that regard. So it's, it's way outside of my expertise. But I can say to, to the what the last thing you said, could it, could it be brought back to if it goes away? Is that a waker upper? It could be. There's a worldwide scare event.

Yeah.

It could be all our money goes to zero and some for strange new thing comes. It could be prior to 10 years ago that would have been deeply concerning because the bad guys had everything. Yeah, they don't. They don't now. They don't. Again, I don't expect anyone to believe that. But I'm glad to say that I, I think, you know, I am the expert. In my own opinion, that's the only one I am an expert in. Yeah, I know what I think and I know what I've seen and I think that the current administration in America has been dominating America since 2016. Dominating it. And even the Biden presidency was absolute fake. He wasn't there. He wasn't president. He was not elected. Nobody's been elected. It's all theater. Right. If they can do that with a presidency and an administration and Congress and the Senate, if They can do that there. Doing things with logistics, with ships in the ocean, with what we think is happening in space, which is another big topic to talk about one day, and what we think is happening with finances and markets. I would. I would expect that. I would expect that. Because once again, the financial markets have been a complete fiction for a long time.

Yeah.

I don't think you've ever had a real market. The. The real market is a village where you say, here's some pigs and chickens and I'll write you a promissory note. That was when it was okay. And then when we moved away from that and a banking system was pulled in and you've got all these international strings attached, you lose sight of the value of anything and the banks don't have the collateral and you have this, you know, notes that don't have anything behind them.

Yeah.

So you're like, okay, we need to have something that has something behind it. So there could be a system where they get rid of one, they prop it up with something else and give us something that does have something behind it, where a token is worth something. You know, it actually has a direct parallel at the moment. I think that when I first started doing this work and speaking in any way publicly about it, which most of my stuff is pretty offline, but I have spoken publicly for 20 years about this stuff. Yeah. Everybody was saying there's going to be a massive crash any day now. Massive, massive crash. That. I think the first time I heard that was in 2002. And then I. I can't. I did a speaking tour up and down the western east coast with a friend of mine at the time, and we talked about collapse culture and we talked about transitioning away from the system and all this. That was in 2009 and some dates in 2010. So that was a while ago. Yeah, none of that shit has happened. Yeah, none of that has happened. I think if you think that looking at. By looking at the markets we can predict what's inevitable, you're totally wrong. I know you're not saying that. I think they can do whatever they need to do to protect civil order. Because one thing for sure, it doesn't really serve anyone's interest to have the whole thing go to chaos and anarchy. Nobody wins for that. The bad guys, in a way, are less interested in that than the good guys. The good guys, I think, would risk a little bit of that. The bad guys don't want that. So I can't see where it going to zero and having like a. In the second Blade Runner movie, they have a. An event where that happens. If anyone's ever seen that new one with Harrison Ford, when he's an old guy in it, it's a good movie that. Not a bad movie, but they have an event where all the money goes to zero and all the credit and debt goes to zero. Everything's wiped and everybody just starts again. And it has a catastrophic initial effect. But overall it does something interesting after that.

Predictive programming.

I'm sure it could be. I'm sure it could be that. I can see that that would happen. And because of what I do in my unusual job, actually earning a living doing these things. Yeah, mostly working with individuals. I work with like, you know, 50 people at a time, basically.

Yeah.

I have a roster of people that we talk about, basically applied theology. A lot of the topics you're talking about today are just me doing off the cuff social commentary for whatever value that is. But mostly what I do give value in is theological understanding, education. When I talk to people about this stuff, everyone always talks about the markets and money at some point. And all I can say is from 2002 until now, 2026, there's always been someone saying, it's going to go to zero, it's going to crash, it's going to be irrecoverable. I think that is more of an effective weapon than it going to zero and being irrecoverable.

The possibility and the dread of it.

The possibility and the dread of it is more effective than the event itself. The event itself would be overcome. It's happened before through time. We'd do it again, we'd overcome it. The dread of that, that represents to a lot of people an unthinkable situation because their safety is in money, their security is in money. Well, being their identity for some people is in the money.

Yeah.

So if you calculate your security based on any horizontal stuff, as we say in theology, anything that's horizontal, you. Yeah, because that can be taken away at any time. The New Testament says anything that is in the world is subject to rust and thief and moth. It's going to rust away, it's going to be stolen or moths are going to eat it. Anything. Anything. Anything here is vulnerable. Anything? Anything. Anything. Anything. Yeah. The vertical, however, which represents relationship with the Creator is safe. If you calculate your security based on him, quote, you're safe. Nothing can touch that because he's in command of all of it. But if you calculate any sense of protection or fortitude based on your reserves, based on markets you're asking for trouble and I think anyone who's doing that, I sympathize with you. But you, you're kicking yourself in the teeth there. You're tying your shoelaces together. Don't do that. Your only security is in God, basically. Without that, you don't have any. And you're subject to what? Throughout time. Money's disappeared, foods dissipate, clothes have disappeared, people have been rounded up and shot and stabbed and held upside down on a tree and they're had cut off. Big deal. They do that throughout history. They did it again. It would just be another rerun for us though. We think we're so safe and civilized, it's unthinkable. Goodness me.

Especially when you can have a coffee delivered to your door and stuff like that.

Right, right. We're so lazy, so soft. Yeah, we're so crazy about that. But let me just say this. Before I can see you've got something on your lips. You've never been as safe as you are now physically, in all of human history. If you're alive today, one thing's for sure, you are safer physically now than anyone who has ever lived over the last 6,000 years of recorded history. Physically as safe as ever. Your battle today is not your body keeping it surviving. It's your mind, it's your emotions. Those are the things that are under attack. Your body is safe, don't worry about that. It's going to be fine. What's under attack is your spirit, your soul, your mind, your emotions. That's the thing that you've got to guard against. So therefore, because those are non physical, they have to be supported by a non physical agency which is in Christianity, Theos, God, Logos, Christ and Paracletos, the Holy Spirit. Those three things are your protection, are your shield, are your sword, are your invulnerable castle, your invulnerable protection. If you have them, you're in sweet. A sweet situation. If you don't, you are in a very, very different situation. I'll give you one lovely bit of poetry for that. This is from the book of James.

Yep.

Which is a relative of Christ. And he says, come now, you who say today or tomorrow we'll go to such and such a city and spend a year here, we'll spend a year there, we'll do this business, we'll engage here, we'll do some money. You do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. Let alone then you are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes. Away. Instead, you ought to say, if the Lord wills, I will live and do this or that. So it's a lovely piece of poetry to say, if you try and strategize everything before you, everything that's going on, how are you going to protect yourself? How are you going to preserve yourself? You're stupid. The only thing that can preserve you is the thing that made you. You are a vapor that appears for a little while. A mist. A little mist, it says in the new King James. I think it says a mist in the new American style. It says a vapor. You are just a vapor that appears for a bit and then fades. So that vapor is your spirit. The thing that creates protection for that spirit is the thing that made it, nothing else. Great, great wisdom as usual.

And that, in a way, it. I. I laugh because there was a thought that got, or a thought or a saying that came into my head and you said, you could see I was thinking of something which is one way to look at this at the moment is what an exciting time to be alive.

That's an excellent attitude, Anthony Fair may say, absolutely yes, sir.

Because these are times that we have never seen before. And like you say, you know, I sometimes don't like using the term awake, but I do feel like, you know, more and more people are at least having the veil lifted.

They are, they are.

Which gives you hope. And in a way, that is what led to my, you know, my point about, you know, exciting time to be alive, because you're possibly depending on what age people are going to see things maybe in the next five, ten years, who knows who. Which may be hard to unbelieve and, you know, kind of understand, but ultimately are for good. But that, in a way led me to my last question, which was, I know times for a lot of people feel very dark, very confusing, very divisive, especially financially. You know, a guy I was connected with runs a company which deals with food banks, and they are, I can't remember the stats, you know, five times as busy as they were a few years ago. And, you know, the, the millions of people that are struggling financially.

Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, I hear that.

How would you say that men can stay positive in these quite dark and confusing times, to be honest.

Yeah, that's. That's very simple one to answer, because I've already. I've already been answering it, but I'm going to. I'm going to say it again because it's. It's easy to miss this one, but there's a principle here that is indomitable. Basically, when God came here, he came as a man. He cut off his godness, he severed his godness. His omnipotence went away. So he wasn't all powerful. His omnipresence went away. He was only in one place at a time for the first time. And his omniscience went away. He didn't know everything. He was just a guy. I say just a guy. And we call that guy Jesus. Yeshua ben Yosef, Joshua, son of Joseph. Christ is his title. That guy, when he came here, he was saying, ah, this is what it is to be one of you. I see, I see. Yeah, this sucks. This is cool. This is bad. This is good. You know, he's having. He breaks through the Creator into his own reality. He breaks through that barrier and comes here and gets his hands dirty, just like you and me. So what Christ says is of particular importance. And he says christ, at many times. I'll just give you one which is in John 16. He says, in the world you have tribulation, but take courage, because I have overcome the world. Okay? He says in James again, he says, consider it joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials. Consider it joy when you come up against stuff, knowing that the testing of your faith produces a character of endurance. And that quality of endurance has a work of wholeness in you, so that you become mature and complete. And you will then lack in nothing. In another letter, this one is Peter. This is Peter's letter, his first letter. He says, beloved, check this out. Beloved friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you which comes upon you for your testing. Don't think some strange thing is happening to you, but to the degree that you share the suffering of Christ, rejoice so that also at the revelation of his nature, his light, his glory, you may also rejoice because you're part of that. So those books we're talking about, John 16, James 1 and 1st Peter 4, they're saying, when happens, don't be surprised when fiery trials come. Don't lose it. When bad things happen, realize they're happening for your character, for your education. It's all like clockwork, on time, part of the syllabus. Easy. Don't be surprised. Don't get caught off guard. What does he say? It produces faith. Faith produces endurance. Endurance produces maturity. This is a maturing earth. You come here to mature spiritually and emotionally, intellectually a bit too. But it's mostly about your spirit and your emotions. That's what's being worked on. They don't do all unless you suffer. You have to suffer. Have to. And that word in Latin, so fare means to bear something, to look at it. Suffer means to look at something. That's all it means to bear something by looking at it, especially if it's difficult. Only through suffering do you mature. Only through suffering. Now, gladly, in our day, you're not going to get scurvy or rickets or die from tuberculosis, heaven forbid your body's going to be safe. We're all going to live it an okay life, most of us, God willing. And even if it's not, it's your soul is safe. Your battlefield where you'll be assaulted is your head, is your mind, is your emotions, is your character. That's the battlefield. That's where you've got to be on guard and that's where you've got to have self control. That's where you've got to stop scrolling and bleeding and hold yourself to the noble standard that God expects of you. Hold yourself as a dignified ambassador of him, as God would wish. That is a truly manly way to live. Truly. And it's part of the lesson. It's not to survive, it's not to avoid, it's to suffer with dignity and to realize, as the New Testament in particular tells us, that that suffering is for our education. It's temporary, it's all over in 10 decades. You're not here very long, it whizzes by. The older you get, the faster that happens and you're out. And the question is, did you tend to the education that was put under your nose or did you do something else?

I won't be quoting any scripture, but I will quote Jim Rohn, who's the old personal development legend that I like to listen to now and again where he said don't wish it was easier, wish you were better.

Yeah, sweet. I like that.

And I liked it because I've done it myself. Sometimes, you know, shit gets hard and especially as I say, we've home educating three kids and we're running business and

bless you, that's hard work doing all

that whilst the I was feel like you need to be cross eyed, you need to have like your left eye looking at your, your day to day stuff, you know, feeding the kids and putting money on the table and you know, staying fucking sane. And the other needs to be looking in the distance and be like what? What's coming down the line? What do we need to be prepared for? But what I would say is my conversations with you, I know help have helped and will help more men be more prepared for what is coming down the line, whatever it is. And I would, I would love, I would hope that you will come back again for round three of the podcast at some point.

As long as you'll have me. You know, when I say thank you. As long as you'll have me. Of course I will. That John 16. It's John 16:33. If you've got a Bible, go look it up. John 16:33. Christ says these things, I've spoken to you so that in me you may have peace in the world, you have tribulation, but take courage. I have overcome the world. What he means by that is he owns it. It's his. He overcame it. Even death, he overcame his overcoming. He died to share that with you. Only in him can you have peace. Only in him can you have continuance. Only in him, whether you know it or not, whether you like it or doesn't make any difference. He's the one who's offering that. He's got it. He's got it in his hands now. You can do that and never have heard his name. If you think straight. If you lived on a desert island and never heard about him, never opened a Bible, it doesn't matter. If you think straight and live straight, that's what's happening in the background. Whether you call it something else or not, it doesn't matter. But the key thing is the only peace. We've talked about peace today is in him. And he's saying, take courage, be strong, be heartened, take courage. I have overcome the world and I am on your side. That. That's a real thing. This isn't mythology. This is a real thing. Real dude, the only champion that you can trust. Just that him. And he said, in me, you have peace in the world, you have tribulation, but take courage. I have overcome it. And I have died to share that overcoming with you. So very spiritual, very Christian, very English, very real. I promise you it's worth looking at. If anyone's turning the nose up, get over yourself and take a look at it.

It's a good reminder as well. You know my. I know we talked about this on the previous podcast, the importance of men in your life, in your community. And I've seen that in the last years because I'd launched a kind of a membership because I just wanted guys to belong to something. But how many of them have said that? Of course shit's happened to them. They've had dark times and, you know, challenges and Also great times, but we're there to support each other, we're there to celebrate with each other, we're there to connect. Yes, everything. And you know, it's a good reminder regardless of where people listen in the world. And I would say the last time we had a podcast, we had so many great comments from people that said this was great, you know, need to hear more from Neil or it's given me some hope or have you? And I was think that's, that's the reason why we sit here at these funny hours of the day chatting to each other. Because you never, you never know. It's, it's evergreen content that this could be listened to in 10 years time as opposed to in one day's time. And it still add value to a man or a woman's life.

But primarily, yeah, I hope so. You want, you want to make your recordings like this as timeless as you can. Because we're wanting to talk about, as I said at the beginning, unchanging answers.

That's it.

It's not long before you and I ever existed and long after. We're just unchanging answers.

I've got a bit more gray in my beard from a couple years ago, but. And, and last.

You still look so young though, to me. Thank you. Time machine or something.

I think I'll be 48 this year. It's either. I think it's 48, but. Last question is any plans? I know we talked a couple years ago about any plans to come back to the UK to work or have you any. Has that changed at all at the moment or are you still just US based?

I'm totally US based, but I have increasingly been going over to Europe so I can foresee more activity there. For sure.

Yeah.

Italy, Austria, Germany, England. I have, you know, things that are important to me in those places. So, yeah, I, I think, I think increasingly so. I'm, I'm generally, generally moving eastwards. So I can see myself being in the eastern part of the US at some point.

Right.

But even traveling out right out here from the, the far west coast, getting on a plane for 10 hours, landing in Paris whilst I'm still young and able enough to do that. Yeah, it's great. So I, I'm in Europe every year, but it's just been like private things or, you know, very one, one. One to one things, as you might say. But I could foresee more stuff happening for sure. Yeah. Because, you know, I love all those places. I am, I am English, not American. I am English.

Yeah.

But I'm glad to be naturalized as a U. S. Citizen. Very honored and grateful to be here because I've got such liberty and prosperity and opportunity here. You know, it's, it's incredible. I can see why people come here. It is sensational. Unique. Unique. But I'm English.

Yeah.

I'm so proud and glad to be English. That'll never change. And as you can hear me accent, it's not going anywhere, you know, it still sounds northern, doesn't it?

I have two bits of, I have one bit of advice and one request is if you ever do come back to the UK and you have time, I would, I would love, love to, you know, actually see you as we said before, for, for a hug sniff. Advice is, is do not buy, sorry. If you do come back, do not have a car that's not robust because the potholes are unbelievable here at the moment.

My dad said that. My dad said that.

Not even you, you, you wouldn't believe it, I don't think. And you know, maybe that's another rabbit hole of this deliberate disintegration of, you know, the fabric of our roads as well.

Yeah. Something that is like psychologically affecting you, even though it's a small matter, it's ridiculous.

It's another thing to get under our skin. But obviously thank you for your time because it's always a pleasure to hear you speak and also just, you know, for me, you know, I love spending time listening to you, talking to you and asking questions that pop into my, my hair brained ideas, basically.

My pleasure. Thanks for inviting me.

Yeah, we will.

I'm glad to be with you and I'm glad that anybody listens. I realize we've said lots of funny things that are off the page a little bit, but yeah, if anyone stuck around for the whole thing, thank you for listening, honestly, I mean that.

Yeah, it's a pleasure. Well, I thank you for coming on and, and yeah, let's, let's do it again in about a year's time.

Yeah, you bet. I'd love to. Thank you.

Cheers, Neil.

Because the world needs strong men now more than ever. And it all starts here at the whole man academy.