The 70/30 Rule That Builds Client Trust ft. Ken Ashley

There are reasons to have that lunch, but if you have too many of those lunches, then you're spending $500 an hour for a free pork sandwich. So you gotta put in guards and accountability around you so that you make sure that you're focused on high payback activities and you delegate or eliminate low payback activities during your day every day and be ruthless about it.

Good day and welcome to the Wealthy Entrepreneur Podcast. I'm your host, Bob Gauvreau. It's a pleasure to have you join me. Here today. Just as a reminder, this is the place where we dissect the elements that contribute to entrepreneurial success, from mindset and leadership to profits and revenue. Today we're going to talk about all things real estate. We've got some great resources, we've got some events that we want to talk to you about, but I'm joined today by a gentleman. His name's Ken Ashley. He's the executive director at Cushman Wakefield. Cushman Wakefield is one of the most well-known real estate agencies in the world. Specifically, I've had a lot of experience with our clients, working with them, helping negotiate real estate opportunities with leases, helping people find opportunities to continue to grow their business and to find really incredible space. And Ken has been in this game for 30 years. He's sitting as the executive director, so he's got a very big seat at the table in one of the most influential real estate organizations in the world. So what a great gentleman to have on today. We're going to actually dive into the lessons behind his book. He wrote a book called The Prescription that helps individuals understand how to get started in real estate, what you need to know, and what you should do from day one. He's also got a few other things he's going to share with us today, which I'm really excited about. So we're diving into the lessons behind his book, the realities of building, a lasting career in real estate and how family discipline and long-term trust shape real success, not just in real estate, not just in business, but in relationships as well. So really excited once again, someone of Ken's status to join us and spend a little bit of time with us. We're very fortunate. So excited to welcome my friend Ken Ashley into the show. Ken, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Thanks for joining us today. And you know what? I'm really excited to hear your story because reading your background, it seems like you've got extensive experience, including currently being the executive director at Cushman Wakefield. And for anyone who is interested in real estate, that is definitely a familiar name. So, Ken, thanks for joining me today. And listen, I'd love to hear maybe a little bit about your story, how you got started and what brought you into this, I would say, very prestigious role at a very successful organization.

Well, you're so kind, Bob. It's an honor to be on your air. I appreciate you including me, and I'm looking forward to our time together, and hopefully we can bring some value add to your listeners. Listen, the story is pretty simple. There's a guy named Brad Smith who is a real estate investor today. He was a tenant rep then. I'll explain what a tenant rep is in a second. I knew Brad personally, and one day I was in an office and I saw him come out of a conference room. And he, you know, Brad's about 6'4. He was wearing a beautiful suit and a great tie. He looked Looked the part, drove an unbelievable car, and he had a big smile on his face. And I said, Brad, why are you so happy? He said, man, it's real estate. It is awesome. And as it turns out, he was working on a bill to suit and he was going to earn a big fee, and that's why he was in a good mood. And I said, well, Brad, can we have breakfast? And that breakfast changed my life because when you're in school or you go to your kid's school, they want to talk about the firefighter or the police officer, which are great professions, No one talks about commercial real estate or being a tenant rep. And so I didn't understand how amazing this profession is until Brad pulled the wool over my eyes, or off my eyes, I should say, not the other way. And then he helped me with some firms that I should reach out to. And I called on 13 different firms and I finally got an offer from Cushman Wakefield, which was the only firm I really wanted to work for. It was a dream come true. And so the offer, They offered a draw, which is a loan against future commissions, and I never wanted the debt. And back then, you know, this is 30 years ago today, Cushman Wakefield is as good as any in the industry about taking care of young people. Hmm. But I went home with really no income, but a lot of opportunity. And I talked way too long at dinner about it. And finally, Karen, my wife, said, well, I have some news too. And I thought we were going to talk about the social plans for the weekend. And she said, of course, I'm pregnant. So I went out and got a job the next day valeting cars and, you know, would regularly work until 4 in the morning. And I tell young people today, I was mortified that someone would see me. I was embarrassed to have the second job. There was no shame in having a second job when you get started in commercial real estate. Do what you need to do.

Absolutely. And so, so 30 years later, it seems like you've moved up through the organization. You've had a bunch of success along the way. You've wrote a book, which I'm going to talk to you about in a few minutes. What What are some highlights in the last 30 years along your journey?

I think this does come in stages. Learning the industry, learning how to do what we do, becoming confident in the industry is a big marker. So when I first started, I didn't know what to say to executives who were now my age as a young person. And I think another thing is understanding how to deal and overcome Rejection, which, because it's not personal to you, it's personal to, or it's part of the process that we all go through. It still hurts. You know, we're still human beings. I think another interesting thing is, you know, I wake up unemployed every morning. I haven't had a salary in 30 years. It's just the cognition that I wake up with a fire in my belly every morning to drive this business forward. I love this business. And then finally, the The idea of serving clients. And one to highlight is if you've been to Atlanta, which is where I sit today, and you look to the east of the Atlanta airport under 26 Right, the busiest runway at the busiest airport in the world, there's one Porsche Drive, which is certainly a career highlight. I represented Porsche in doing a $100 million deal on 56 acres for their headquarters, customer experience center, and training center. So that was a lot of fun. Oh, wow.

That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. And of course, one of the biggest brands in the world, especially in our space, right? Like we've, we're tied in with high performers and entrepreneurs who, you know, they do, a lot of them wake up essentially unemployed every single day and have to make things happen. So we can for sure relate to a beautiful brand like Porsche. How many people are currently working for Cushman Wakefield? 'Cause it's a large organization.

Cushman Wakefield is a large organization. It's publicly traded. It's one of the preeminent commercial real estate brands in the world. And I don't have the exact number, but I would guess north of 70,000 people around the world.

Exactly. And so before we jumped on, and the reason I wanted to just sort of share this is like there's different, so many different angles of team members who'd be working for that organization, but even in the industry. And we were talking about your lens and your focus is, and you were talking about it, riches in the niches. I think is what you said earlier. So what exactly is your role within the organization and what is your focus and how do you help support people?

Appreciate the question, Bob. So I work as what's called a tenant representative. And so that means I help companies solve real estate problems in their, sometimes in their portfolios and sometimes in a large office. And so we really run 2 plays on my team. One is representing large tenants, or we call 'em occupiers in Atlanta. If you have a headquarters, we'd love to talk to you. To help you solve the real estate problem. And then the second is if you are a company that has a number of leases in your portfolio, then we can help manage the critical dates. Critical dates meaning the lease expiration, notice date, option notice dates, and other types of things. And so we summarize those. It's what's called an abstraction and help manage all those leases for you. And if you have a lease expiring in Los Angeles, then I find the right field broker And we work together to make sure you get the right outcome for your business. And one of the things we think about a lot, or I think about a lot as a tenant rep, is that for many business owners, the second biggest cost after labor is real estate. And you've got to get it right. In fact, you can do something wrong and have a CLM, or a career-limiting move. We specialize in avoiding CLMs.

Fair, fair enough. So you're everyone's best friend, um, helping really support them in, in making sure that they get into a safe space, something that's not going to come back and bite them.

Yeah. And just a couple of examples, a landlord that is, that is solid and able to perform its obligations, a place where employees want to return to office with the proper amenities are 2 big things that a lot of executives think about. They want to make the right decision for their workforce and its future growth.

And thank you for that. So understanding and getting clear on exactly your angle, but you sort of, you wrote a book as well called The Prescription, and I'd love you to share a little bit about this, but it's maybe a little bit on a different perspective related to people getting into real estate. Do you want to maybe share a little bit about the book, Ken? Sure.

So, you know, back to the transformative breakfast with Brad. Over the years, you know, I pay what I call civic rent, and that's my attempt to meet with young people in part and, and help them as they try to get into this industry. And of course, you know, it's just paying back, reaching back down the ladder with what Brad helped me do and changing my life. And so some years ago, as I was meeting with a young person, I pulled out a piece of paper, and after I do a diagnostic about what he wanted to do, I wrote down 6 or 8 things he ought to do. And as a joke, I wrote prescription at the top, dated it, and signed it. And he called me a couple months later to say he'd gotten a job. And so I kept doing it. I kept writing prescriptions. And so during COVID I realized that this is such a great career. Thank God we're out of COVID but it doesn't matter if you're in COVID or out of COVID And so I started writing down some things that I had learned in my career, and one thing led to another. I was talking with my wife, she said, you know, you ought to write the book. And so I did 2 years of Saturday mornings and put it all together, and it's been great. It's really helped a lot of people, which is the point. It's not about making money. It's about civic grit.

Yeah. And so we wrote a book as well. I say we, but it was me, which is the name, the title of the podcast, which is The Wealthy Entrepreneur. And same concept, right? When we're trying to reach the most amount of people with the most minimal investment of their time, resources to be able to share knowledge for them. So I can appreciate the effort that went into it and I can appreciate You know, the ability to give away knowledge to people to help them get started, because we were just talking about this before, but really the 3 areas that you focus on in the book is describing commercial real estate, how to get into it, and what they should do from day one. What is your greatest takeaway that you would love for any reader reading The Prescription to walk away with?

Having a plan is important and follow up. The fortune is in the follow up. Both in terms of meeting with people who could be a potential future employer, and then also, of course, in prospecting. I think the second takeaway is to understand from the book why it is so hard to get into a profession where they don't give you a salary. And if you sort of peel that back, and I'm not quoting actual numbers, but just a sort of a guesstimate, in most major brokerages today, with the cost of prop tech, property technology, You know, the desk costs of the physical real estate and the admins and the resources, it probably costs a major brokerage $400,000 a year per person in what's called desk costs.

Wow.

So if you are running a brokerage shop, then you're betting on young people, and it's probably going to take that young person 3 or maybe 4 years to become productive. So you're betting over $1 million that that person that you're bringing in with no salary is in fact going to make money for the firm. And that's why it's so hard. And that's why you have to be smarter than the average bear in the interview. We spend a lot of time in the book talking about how to prepare for an interview, how to have the interview, and then importantly, what to do after the interview to stay relevant.

No, I love that. And so really, I'm thinking as well, for any of my broker listeners out there as well, make sure that you get a copy of this. We will put the link to the prescription in the show notes here as well. So if you're interested, please grab that. But can I, There was another takeaway that I feel is pretty valuable, and I think it's even more important today than it was 5 years ago, and it's the value of relationships. You know, one of the things that you talked about is that the success in the CRE space is built on relationships, not transactions. What exactly would you focus on in that space with building relationships?

Well, it starts with being other-aware and other-focused. And I have something that we talk about in the team called the 70/30 principle. So let's say, Bob, you and I are going to meet for lunch and you're an executive at a company and maybe you could become a client. Well, I'm going to, just as you have done research on me, which is impressive, thank you. I'm going to do the honor of researching you and I'm going to have some fencepost questions that I'm going to ask you when we sit down. And we're going to start by talking about family. Most important in your upbringing, your origin story, and then what does success look like for you in your career? So if you can spend 70% of any interaction, but certainly a meal focused on the other individual and 30% on yourself, does 2 things. You have to talk about yourself a little bit or they won't remember you. Plus it's socially awkward. But there is a high likelihood That someone is going to like you and trust you if you simply will be interested in them. The best way to be interesting is to be interested in someone else. So relationships are fundamental and building the right relationship will make the difference. You know, the other thing I think about a lot is, you know, what do you call the person that graduates last in medical school? Doctor, right? So what our clients are looking for is the person that graduated, you know, 1 through 10. And so we're trying to demonstrate—

Right.

Everybody has a white coat, everybody looks the same, everybody has doctor, everyone says tenant rep, everyone has the resume. Who is really the best at the craft? And so one of the reasons that I've, you know, come to podcasts like this amazing opportunity is so that people can see how I think and hopefully they will adjudicate me near the top of the class and not the bottom.

Which is great. And you know what? I'm actually going to take that away. I think that's a great line. I call them doctor. You do because they get through the program, but maybe not the one that you want. I hope you're not at the tip of the greatest emergency in your life, but, but I hear what you're saying. So one other takeaway that I have from The Prescription as well is that you write about becoming indispensable to clients. What does that actually look like and how do you do that?

Well, you earn trust every conversation that you have, and you earn trust by doing what you say you're going to do. You earn trust By following social norms, by being on time. It's not super hard, but you lose trust when you're late and you don't follow up and follow through. And so these tells are important. And being indispensable just means that we're helping people solve the FUD, the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that everyone experiences in life. Fundamentally, what we know, and it's not a bad thing, is we think about ourselves all day long. Every person on the planet, And you're trying to get back to comfort. If you're hungry, you're going to eat. If you're cold, you're going to put on a sweater. If you're tired, you're going to go to sleep. And becoming indispensable just means that we're helping people solve their concerns and their problems and their fears. So to get now to commercial real estate, let's say that someone is working on their headquarters and they're trying to choose either a city or a location. We can become indispensable because we can provide data to justify a decision. So it's not just an emotional one. You make emotional decisions in the big scary business world, you make the wrong one, that leads to discomfort. So we become indispensable by helping people support their decisions and make— help them make the right ones.

And we talk about that too, Ken. So different perspective, same fundamental principle: make decisions not on emotion but on good data. So whether it's in real estate, understanding the facts of the situation, for us, In many cases, whether it's real estate or it's business owners and entrepreneurs, it's having the facts about your numbers, understanding what's driving that decision. Is it a good decision? Is it not a good decision? And, you know, you say focus or riches are in the niches. And I would say, you know, the foundation of good information is based on numbers. Numbers never lie. Something we definitely take pretty serious in our business as well. Another interesting thing that you said as well, you know, even just showing up on time, listening, you know, I feel like over the last, I'm going to say 6 or 7 years, it seems like life has gotten a little bit easier to be successful because really if you show up, you answer or return your messages, And you show up on time and you just say that you do what you say you're going to do, like that's going to be the top percent, 1% or 5% of people. So many people now, even as business owners, they don't even return their calls. They don't return inquiries about selling or providing a product or a service. It's unbelievable to me. I'm guessing you see that in real estate the same, that people just don't even respond to messages. And it is really tough to gain trust if People can't rely on you to show up.

It's true, Bob. And we practice what I call the digital nod. And what the digital nod is, is let's say you send me a message and I want to categorize you as say that you're a prospect or a client. My goal is during the day within, it may not be me, it may be a team member who's looking at my email, but we want to acknowledge you during the day within about 7 minutes, just so that you know that you're important. We've received your message. We may still be working on solving the problem. It might take us days to solve the problem, but we're keeping you informed through the digital nod. Talk about becoming indispensable. When people are responsive in the professional service world, that's what the executive really wants because they know that they're being heard and they're not reaching out because it's just a hobby. I mean, this is serious business. Now, we're not saving lives, but these are big decisions that have big impacts on companies.

You might not be saving lives, but you might be making lives more meaningful.

Yes. Very true.

So yeah, like I would say that, well, we all know that typically the largest investment people will make is in their own real estate. But even beyond that, the largest investment people tend to make is in some type of real estate investment. And, you know, just having the guidance and the wisdom of making sure that you're doing it the right way is so important, which I think leads me into a discussion that I want to have with you, which is about your summit that you've created. It sounds like you created an event that, which we know is in September, September 22nd to 24th in Savannah, Georgia this year. Tell us a little bit about that, Ken, and how many people are going to be there and what's going to be the focus for those few days?

Sure. So it's called the CREI Summit. It stands for Commercial Real Estate Influence. And we made the I lowercase because I'm aware that sometimes in some corners influence can be a pejorative. But we believe in servant leadership and using influence for good. And the conference idea initially started during COVID It's a COVID passion project. And I realized that because of COVID and probably post-COVID, you couldn't make your living by going to the Men's Grill or playing golf or taking someone to dinner. You can do all those things today, but for a while we couldn't. And that led to the realization that digital tools that help us market ourselves are going to become more and more important. And so I started creating a list of people who were doing it well, just for my own knowledge and a source of truth. And then I published the list and CRE was a hashtag when we used to use hashtags and we added the I to it. And one thing led to another and several people reached out and said, can't we get together? And so, you know, in the middle of COVID I'd never been to Lake Tahoe. I always thought it was a cool place. So The Ritz-Carlton made me a great deal. I signed a contract and threw a meeting, not having any idea if anybody would come, and put up a lot of my own money at risk. And my wife was like, you know, honey, I'll support you, but are you sure? I said, I'm sure. And 109 people showed up to the first conference. I'm eternally grateful for their trust in us. And we are now on year 6. And so what attendees get First of all, you'll experience something called an abundance mentality. Many people in our industry, my industry, walk down a cornrow. Don't look left, don't look right. Everything's a secret. I'm a secret agent, man. Well, with the exception of client data, we try to be radically transparent. And you can ask me anything about methods and practices outside of client data because that's just a better way to live your life. And so when you come, you'll experience a lot of other people I like the phrase iron sharpens iron. You'll have some of the best people in the world who create content, who use AI to drive their business forward. And so that's what you'll experience. The answer to your question will probably be a couple hundred people. We like the microconference format. Nothing wrong with going to a 2,000-person conference, but that's not the experience we want to create for people.

Yeah, for sure. Smaller events, you know, as someone who does a lot of speaking and attends a lot of events, smaller events are just more intimate. You have a greater opportunity to get deeper connection with people, and also you get more one-on-one insights with those that are presenting information and sharing resources. So it sounds like it's set up to be a super successful event, and I'm guessing over the last 6 years, you know, you continue to do it. So we're doing it for a reason, right? I'm guessing it's based on the impact that you're able to have and the knowledge that you're able to transfer to these attendees. So. Sounds fantastic. And you said the tickets are $1,000, which are heavily subsidized by sponsors who are there to create the greatest experience possible.

Yeah, we wanted to make it attainable, especially for people in the first third of their careers. And for everyone that attends, you get a workbook. So you have on Monday morning, I like to tell people, your personal battle plan to execute. Because Bob, what you would do in your market might be different than what I would do in my market. And maybe we're focused on different product types or have different missions. But there's a buffet of ideas and you will be able to take away— my goal is 3 to 5 really solid things that will transform and supercharge your business.

Love that. What a great takeaway for everybody who gets to join. You know what? It's great to have a solid workbook too, so you can go back and reflect or make notes throughout the event because sometimes if there's nothing there, you know, I've got books upon books of notes in there that I don't even remember what they're from. You know, you try and categorize them the best way possible, but it's great to have a physical document to take with you. Really allows the insights to be, you know, a little bit more valuable when you get home. So Ken, you've obviously had a very successful career in the real estate space. I want to ask you this question because I think, you know, I've been in my business for 20 years as well, You know, I think there's a lot that I've learned across the journey, especially like you said, you know, you start out essentially unemployed every day and you try and build something along the journey. With your experience and with the success that you've had, what is one habit that you feel has compounded your success over the 30 years that, you know, if you could transform that habit to everyone listening, what would it be?

Bob, that's an astute question. What's one habit? I think it's just, I said it earlier, being other aware. I mean, genuinely caring about the other person first, because so many people who are in business development I find are self-motivated and they could come across as the used car salesman that nobody wants to interact with. But being, when you buy from someone, whether you're buying a product or a service who's really good at their craft, it's a very pleasant experience. So I think just being focused on others' needs before your own is really a critical success factor.

Yeah, and I think even tying into that too, just being a good listener, being an active listener. Hey, guess what, guys? This also works at home. So put your phone down, listen to your spouse, listen to your kids. You know, they feel valued when you actually give them the time and energy. And so it's not even just At home, but it is in the business world too. Become an active listener.

I think, Bob, that's such a fine point. In the FBI, they have something called tactical listening. And tactical listening is the idea, you know, when we're having most conversations, if we're honest, we're playing conversational tennis and we're thinking about what we're going to say next when the other person stops talking. And in the FBI, when they're negotiating a hostage situation, it's pretty important. So they try to clear their minds and really focus on everything that To your point that the other person is saying, and it shows. People can tell that you're good at listening. And even to your fine point about your spouse, there's an issue called the law of familiarity, which is the person you love the most is someone that you actually can begin to disrespect by not listening. You just kind of become lazy in the relationship. So yes, continuing to invest in your spouse is critical.

Yeah, every relationship needs work. And just remember, the most important one is the one that will cost you half of everything you own if you screw it up. So one last thing I know is part of your book, the one thing that you talk about is what to do from day one. And, you know, mostly for, I'm going to say uneducated real estate investors, but more so young people. You're trying to reach out to young people to say, what is it that you can do from day one? I want to spin this around though. And I want to ask, what's the biggest mistake that you see young people or anyone who's entering into the real estate space? What is something they do that if they just didn't do that, they'd be in a much better position?

Try to be everything to everybody and try to solve every real estate need out there. And the most important thing— well, there are really 2 things from day one— is to become educated about your craft. You know, don't rely on— don't be lazy and use AI in an inappropriate way. You've got to know what you're doing. People are paying us to know our craft. For example, in a lease, what's important, what's not. In a building, how do you build an office building? What are the construction? And then research in the marketplace so you really know what you're talking about. But the second, and here's the thing where most people step up or mess up, is putting in systems that guard your time. And here's the super quick analogy. In my business, since we don't have a salary, a lot of brokers don't know how to value their time. If you have the noble goal of making $1 million a year and you're splitting half of the house, that's $482 an hour. And if someone invites you out for a free pork sandwich, that's great. They're maybe they're a landlord trying to build a relationship. There are reasons to have that lunch, but if you have too many of those lunches, then you're spending $500 an hour for a free pork sandwich. So you got to put in guards and accountability around you so that you make sure that you're focused on high payback activities. And you delegate or eliminate low-payback activities during your day, every day, and be ruthless about it.

Ken, I feel like you could write a second book with one-liners and metaphors that would be a bestseller without question. Listen, I appreciate the wisdom and the expertise that you've provided today, the insights that you've shared. It's been a real privilege to have you on here. And once again, Ken is the executive director of Cushman Wakefield. My friend, I appreciate the time. Thank you.

It's been an honor to be here, Bob.

Now, before I let you go, I just want to remind everybody a few takeaways for me. One, let's get a copy of The Prescription. Let's make sure we're getting a copy of that book. It's talking about how to get— what real estate is, what commercial real estate is, how to get into it, what to do from day one. What a great introductory opportunity for you to learn from a master, someone who's served 30 years and has a very significant role With one of the most successful, if not the most successful real estate organizations in the world. So really great foundational knowledge there. The CREI Eye for Influence Summit in Savannah, Georgia, September 22nd to 24th. We're going to put a link in to both the book and to the event. If you're interested in learning about real estate and you feel like you're ready to make your step forward, just know if you're able to attend, you're going to get this Fantastic document that's going to give you step-by-step guides on how to be successful, and you'll connect with some of the most influential people in real estate. So Ken, once again, thanks. I appreciate you joining us today. And for everyone, this has been the Wealthy Entrepreneur Podcast. I'm your host, Bob Gauvreau. It's always a pleasure to have you. Make sure you give us a follow, give us a like, drop in any comments, add any questions that you may have. We're happy to get those. answered and responses back to you. Also, if you have anyone that you know that you're familiar with who's starting to look at getting involved in real estate, make sure you give this a little share. Grab the link, send it out to them. This will be a really great foundational step forward for them getting into the real estate space. And always want to just thank you guys. We are here to help empower entrepreneurs with the financial confidence they need to make good decisions and to ultimately, as entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs make positive change in the world. So once again, thanks for spending your time with us today, Ken. I appreciate you so much. And for everybody, have a great day. Look forward to seeing you next time.

Thank you.