The Six-Figure Sales Hire Mistake Most Founders Make ft. Matthew Pollard

Good day and welcome to the Wealthy Entrepreneur Podcast. I'm your host, Bob Gauvreau. It is a pleasure to have you here with us Today, uh, I just wanna remind you that this is the place where we dissect the elements that contribute to entrepreneurial success, from mindset and leadership to profits and revenue and everything in between. Today I'm joined by a special guest. He's known as the Rapid Growth Guy. His name is Matthew Pollard. Uh, he's the founder of Rapid Growth Coach, bestselling author of the Introvert's Edge series, and as an expert in sales, networking, and business growth. By 30, he's built 5 multimillion-dollar businesses helping introverted entrepreneurs thrive in areas often dominated by extroverts. Don't worry, extroverts, he's got tools for you as well, and definitely some really great insights here. Today we're gonna dive into how introverts can use their strengths to drive sustainable growth, stand out, and succeed in sales without losing authenticity, but even more so, the importance of having a proven sales sales system in order to generate sales instead of just going at it impromptu and hoping for the best. Uh, really excited to have Matthew here. He's also a very highly recognized speaker, an incredible storyteller, as you will find out here shortly. Without any further ado, let's bring Matthew into the show. Matthew, thank you for spending time with us. I know you've got a lot going on, a busy schedule, so it's great to have you on the show.

Mate, it's terrific to be here. Thanks for having me on.

100%. And you know what? I was kind of going through your bio and it's pretty impressive. You know, award-winning speakers, a very successful book, a pretty successful group of friends that you associate with yourself. Would love maybe for you to take us all the way back and share the story of how you got started and maybe give us some of the success that you've had along the way and where you are now.

I think it's important to recognize because, I mean, as you know, you know, my books are on Introverted Sales and Introverted Networking. And hilariously, they all focus on sales systemization and networking systemization, which even extroverts need to do because I mean, you're never selling a business if you don't have a sales system because otherwise you're just teaching people how to wing things and those salespeople leave. So good luck exiting if you are the primary salesperson and good luck exiting if you've got a bunch of unicorns that'll, every person thinking about buying your business knows will leave the moment they buy the business. But the truth is that a lot of people will hear me speak and they'll say, well, it's easy for you. It's clearly, you are clearly an extrovert. And I think that's what happens a lot. People project extroversion on anyone that's successful. And we were talking about this just before we hopped on, you know, people like Oprah Winfrey and David Letterman that you would assume are natural communicators. I mean, they're pretty good at small talk, which we think we introverts can't do, are both introverted. Zig Ziglar, the most well-known sales trainer that ever lived, is an introvert. So, but yet we project extrovert on anyone that's successful. So I think it's a great question to start with because when I was in late high school, I had a reading speed of a 6th grader. I was super introverted. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. And luckily enough, and for, I'm not sure if you're ever gonna use the video clips for this or if, but you know, I got diagnosed.

We will for sure.

Well, I got diagnosed with this thing called Irlen syndrome, which means I put on this funny pair of colored lenses which didn't exactly help me with my confidence, but miraculously it could, you know, it allowed me to learn to read. Not— I couldn't, you know, read like everyone else. I could start the process of learning to read. So the last 2 years of high school for me were tough, but I managed to get into the top 20% of my state. But my family could just see I was exhausted. And because I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life, they— we all agreed I was going to take a year off to find myself. And I took a job at a real estate agency because, I mean, my dad broke his back 80 hours a week. There was no way he was going to let me just, I don't know, sit on the couch and watch Oprah or something. You know, I had to get a job. So I took a job at a real estate agency. Before you think I was the guy out selling, I was the guy in the back office doing data entry. I had a look on my face, no doubt. Don't speak to me, I'm here to find myself. 3 weeks into that job though, my manager pulls me aside. He's like, Matt, I'm so sorry. We just got a phone call from head office. They're shutting down this premise. You're out of work. I mean, I worked there 3 weeks and This was around Christmas time in Australia. And for those people that don't know, our seasons are backwards. So it's summer at Christmas. So everybody goes on holidays on the 20th of December and they don't come back to the 15th or 20th of January. So for all the business owners that are listening, if you're about to go on a long holiday for about a month, you've all had your spouse tell you, you are not going to hire anyone during this period. You're going to have to pay them. You're going to have to worry about them. We're not taking on any extra responsibility. Senior leaders hear the same. So I go to the classifieds to try and find a job, and there are only 2 jobs listed, and both of them had these words: commission-only sales. I had really bad acting, you know, like when I was in, you know, when I speak from stage, I put up this photo of me at my sister's wedding years later, and I'm like, I used to like, I had real discomfort talking to my own friends because I thought they were judging me. Commission-only sales, walking into people's doors and trying to sell to them where I felt like they judged me before I even opened up my own mouth. None of that was okay. But it wasn't as scary as telling my dad I was out of work. So I applied for jobs and I got two job interviews and then I went to both job interviews and I got two job offers and I'm like, well, wow, maybe they see something in me I don't see in myself. So I remember going in, I took a job doing business to business door-to-door telecommunications sales and I walked in with a little bit of quiet confidence and my trainer put this to bed really quickly. He's like, Matt, we just hire everyone. We've got the saying, we throw mud up against the wall, we see what sticks, which I guess is a fun saying in until you realize you're the mud. Well, I mean, it was terrible, but after 5 days product training and not a single second of sales training, I get thrown on this road called Sydney Road in Melbourne, Australia. Like, Google it. It's like hundreds of junk stores one by one, which I guess isn't a bad thing if you're going to get told no, like you don't have far to go. But I get on this street, I get told to go sell, and my first realization is I have no idea what to say. Like, they taught me all about the product, but nowhere, like, and no clue. And I know you're a CPA yourself. Like, most people spend a lot of time educating themselves on tax law, on, you know, regulations and all these rules. No one teaches you how to actually sell the service that you sell. I think that's most business owners out there. Well, this was me selling somebody else's product. I take a deep breath and I walk in and I say, luckily I was politely told to leave because the next door I was less politely told to leave. Then I was sworn at. I mean, my personal favorite, that was always getting told to get a real job. I mean, this was the only job I could get.

And so let's just say the commission wasn't great out of the gates, right?

It was horrible. It was 93 doors. Of getting told no before I made my first sale. And I mean, I remember actually I made $70. I was ecstatic for, I don't know, maybe 45 seconds. I mean, it was a lot of money for me back then. I was working in high school at McDonald's trying to earn some extra cash. But then I had this next realization, which I think was worse. I got to do this again tomorrow, the next day, the whole year. And for me, I think this was, this was the time I made a decision that changed my life. Because if I had just relied on Lady Luck, which especially a lot of people that sell complex services do, they hope they're going to run into the ideal customer or get referred to that ideal customer. If I had just relied on lady luck and assumed that I could just sell when I ran into that ideal person, not bumble my way through it, that year would've been really tough. But instead I made the decision that sales had to be a system. And I went, well, how am I gonna learn this system? I couldn't exactly pick up a Brian Tracy or a Zig Ziglar book. It would've taken me a year to read it, let alone apply it. But then I went, I wonder, and I typed in the word sales system into YouTube and very quickly all these videos came up and I went, wow. Turns out I wasn't the first person that had this idea and I just spent 8 hours applying the concepts every day. And then I'd rush home and I'd spend 8 hours practicing the next step or perfecting the one I was working on. Weekends I'd spend 16 hours practicing, which I'm sure to everyone doesn't sound fun. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I'm not suggesting it now. There are smarter ways to do it. It's just all I knew. But very quickly I got better. Soon it was 71 doors before my next sale, then 44, then 28, then 16, then 9, then 3. Eventually in door-to-door sales, I got it, I got it down to closing a sale every 3 doors I walked into. Now, what was hilarious, and remember, I was the quiet person that handed my paperwork in downstairs, didn't speak to any of the boisterous salespeople upstairs talking about how they locked in that deal or how the market's getting tougher. About 6 weeks in, my manager pulls me into his office and he had that same look. I'm like, oh God, I'm about to get fired again. And he looks at me and he says, Matt, we just got our national sales figures, which back then they used to get once a month. And he says, you're the number 1 salesperson in the company. He didn't even know my name. And he's like, na, he's like, my gosh, you can sell. Which back, which by the way, that was the largest sales and marketing company in the Southern Hemisphere. I went from terrified to sell, having no business in sales to being the number one in the company. And he just looks at me, he goes, Matt, you can sell. I bet you can manage. And I'm like, are you kidding? Like, I barely know how to sell. I don't know why in sales people think because you can sell, you can manage. I told him I had no clue. He's like, no worries, we'll give you 20 people, mud up against the wall, see if anyone sticks. Within 24 hours, everybody quit on me. So I went back to YouTube and I learned to manage. Very quickly I got better at that. I got promoted 7 times in 12 months, then went and started up my own business with— in less than a year it turned over more than $1 million. But just shy of a decade later, I'd been responsible for 5 multimillion-dollar success stories and everything from telecommunications right through to, you know, nationally accredited education.

That's pretty awesome. And so right now, what are you doing right now? Like all along that journey, you're building up all your skills, which, you know what, I love, right? Because I think entrepreneurship clearly is something that's natural for you because you're a problem solver. Most people wouldn't turn to the YouTube and figure out and rehearse and do all the things that they need to do to perfect the system for execution. Right. And, you know, God bless all of the employees everywhere, but most of the time the employees that are working somewhere are not willing to make— put in the effort and the commitment to success that you've had. So you've gone through this long journey. Where are you now? What are you doing now?

Yeah, what's— what was really interesting is about— gosh, it would have been 12 years ago now. I guess I'm dating myself, but about 12 years ago I made a decision to travel the world for a year and we would talk about this offline. I wanted to live somewhere else and try my hand in a bigger economy. And Australia is just so far away from everything. So I made the decision to move to Austin, Texas. And before everybody starts thinking about this, yes, every good story has a girl in it and this one's no different. So I met a girl in Austin, Texas. We both moved to Austin. She moved from Boca Raton to Austin where we— she just moved. I moved there. And you know, I'd spent over a decade awkwardly fostering a network. I wasn't great at networking at all. And then I made the decision to move to Austin, Texas. And when I made the decision to move there, I made the decision that I wanted to spend my life helping people obtain rapid growth, especially introverted service providers. I think for me, there's something heroic about a person with enough talent, skill, and belief in themselves to start a business of their own, especially if they're introverted. The cards are stacked against them. And I believe introverts have the edge when it comes to sales, when it comes to networking, but more often than not, the common theories and the, the lack of education on introversion makes people feel like they just have to accept subpar performance. So what I realized is I could spend my life, you know, creating products or services that I could rapidly grow, or I could spend my time really empowering other introverts to realize they're not second-class citizens. Their path to success is just different to that of an extrovert, and then giving them the ideology in order to help them succeed through sales systemization, networking systemization in a way that doesn't make them feel inauthentic. Because I mean, if you've heard of the traditional elevator pitch, no introvert's going to feel comfortable. I mean, not most extroverts hate that. It's the most transactional thing in the world. And when it comes to sales, how many years, Robert, did you spend studying to be a CPA? And then how much time do you spend every year doing your continuous education that you have to do?

Yeah, so we pretty much are 3 years from, you know, post-education and learning the ropes and getting the practical experience. And then on an ongoing basis, yeah, there's the minimum professional development requirements. I'm more so in an executive seat now than the rest of my team of experts. But yeah, it's, it's— I'm going to say at least dozens, if not hundreds of hours a year.

Got it. And how many hours of that was sales training showing you how to sell what you do?

Absolutely zero. Nothing with business school. There was not— there was nothing in business school that taught anybody, any business owner, how to run a business, how to sell themselves, how to sell, you know, in a business. Yeah, nothing.

It's crazy, right? Like, so when I— my business is because it was nationally accredited education. Well, I don't actually have an education, so I went back to get one. I actually went and studied for my MBA and I was able to get into one because I had 8 years management experience. But I got to see— one of my subjects was accounting and finance. And it turns out it's actually a very logical, systematic process. I had a beforehand, I would have gone, well, I'm just terrible at finance. I just can't manage my money. It must be a natural ability that clearly Robert has and I don't. It's the same with sales. Like if you, if you just wing things and you don't have any formal education on how to do it, then it becomes something that is terrifying. And that's where most people live in because no formal education in networking and sales indifferentiation happens, which is why most people spend their life struggling to find people, trying to separate themselves from everyone else, fighting on price and feeling like people just see them as a commodity. But once you have that education, you can have the edge over all your competition because even extroverts, what they do doesn't work so well. And it's just trying to take it out of that magic formula. Like for you, and I'm sure you do this with your clients all the time, Robert, like now that you have this formula and a lot of that comes from the education that you've had, you say to your clients, let's change this one thing or let's do this just one thing? Or why don't we do some tax planning to really think through what changes we want to make in order to do it well? It's the same with sales. You change— if you change multiple things or you wing it, you don't know what's blowing up in your face. But once you have a strong networking and sales system, you can change one thing at a time, see if it improves or see if it reduces your results. And more importantly, you can then give it to someone else to do. Most founders, especially introverts, they want to hire someone in order to get them to go and do the sales. Well, if they don't have a sales— if you don't have a sales system that works, the only person that salesperson is going to sell to is you. They're going to talk to you about the pipeline they have and how they just need to treat these sales a little bit more carefully. 6 months, a year later, you've blown 6 figures on this person that's delivered you nothing. And that's why it's so important that you build the formula, you build the strategy, you build the structure, you do it yourself to the best level you can. And that way, when you hire someone, you can onboard them to the process that works for you and they can take it to the next level and optimize it. But if they're below your level, you can come and help.

Absolutely. And I feel like even if somebody who's listening right now has a sales process, like, what a great opportunity to learn all the elements of someone else's sales process so you can optimize your own best practices and, and everything like that. Now, one of the things that you talk about in your book and in some of your experiences, the differentiation instead of competing on price. Walk me through why that's so important, because that's something that we focus on as well, right? Pricing is, you know, the race to the bottom price is just not the way to be financially successful. Talk to me a little bit about your focus on differentiation.

Yeah, it's really interesting because a lot of people think that their clients only care about price. I'm like, that's not true. For lack of a better option, they may as well have a cheaper price. And the thing that I found is, and it's really interesting, like CPAs all want to be in the CPA bucket. And it's like, well, okay, well, I'm a CPA, he's a CPA. Clearly it's the same thing. So it's either relationship or the cheapest price. And truthfully, how much do I really care if, you know, Robert's my friend? I just want the cheapest price, right? So that's why everyone just goes to price. If you ask anybody why people hire them, it's like, oh, because we provide excellent customer service and we're really knowledgeable. And I'm like, truthfully, who— when was the last time somebody tried to sell to you and they said, oh, we provide terrible customer service and we don't know much? 'But we'd love to work with you.' That's not a differentiator because everybody's saying that. So a lot of people don't know what's different about them. And it's interesting, I always give my clients, and anyone listening to this is welcome to use me as an excuse, and reach out to your current clients and say, you know, I just heard this podcast, or I'm working with a coach, whatever you want to say. And they suggested that clearly we charge more than everyone else, or you've referred us. And no one says, 'Hey Robert, I'd love to refer you because you did nothing special for me at all. So clearly there's something unique that I'm doing. I'd love to know what what that is. And everybody that you speak to will say, oh, well, Robert, you provide excellent customer service, or you're really knowledgeable, and know that that is useless information. But then thank them for that information and say, what specifically about our service or what specifically about our knowledge have you found particularly useful? And the treasure trove of that information is huge. Now, only reach out to the clients that you make great money from and the clients you love working with, because that's where you want to make sure that you get more clients just like them, not the clients that you make money out of, but they— you wish that you didn't have to come to work, or the people that you love come to work for, but you may as well go work in a soup kitchen because you're not making any money. So you really got to make the right choice on who to call. But let's talk about differentiation, because for me, I like to help people avoid the battle of competition altogether. And there's actually a really good example I give in one of my books. So Wendy was a language coach that basically she taught kids and adults Mandarin. She charged $50 an hour to $80 an hour max, and she actually had a pretty good business. She'd been doing it for a decade. But then all of a sudden there were people moving into California that were willing to charge $30 to $40 an hour for private consultation. Then thanks to the global economy we're now all presented with, you know, there were people in China offering to do it for $12 an hour on Craigslist. And now thanks to our friends in Silicon Valley, there's technology. Robert, I'll teach you Mandarin, you teach me English. We just won't charge anyone anything. So now she's competing against free. So she comes to me, she's like, Matt, tell me some— I need some sales strategies in order to maintain my current client base because I'm losing those and to secure new customers because I'm struggling to get them to hire me. I said, look, this is just a long spiral to the bottom. What we need to do is look at how we can avoid the battle altogether. So what I did is I looked at all the clients she'd worked with over the years, and of all of them, I discovered just a small handful that she helped. And these were people, these were executives being relocated to China. And what I realized is she was doing so much more for these people than just language tuition. She was helping them understand the difference between e-commerce in China and the Western world, the importance of rapport, like learning the importance of respect, learning, like learning the language isn't enough. You have to reduce your accent, how to handle a business card, why it matters so much. And of course she helped them understand the difference in rapport. I mean, in the Western world, if I was bad at sales, I might say something horrible at the end of 45 minutes, like, Robert, do you want to move forward? And if you say you want to, you want to think about it and you still want to think about it a week from now, I know I'm probably not getting that sale. In China though, they probably wanna see you 5 or 6 times before they even discuss business. They probably wanna see you drunk over karaoke once or twice. It's just the character of the person you're doing business with. But that's because you're talking 20 to 40 year deals, not transactional 12 month contracts. And I was like, when you're doing so much more for these people than just language tuition. And for the people listening, again, if you've ever received a referral, I promise you you're doing something above and beyond. If you've ever had repeat business, a testimonial, No one gives you that for doing just what you promise. So I said, when you're doing so much more for these people than just language tuition, what are you doing? They're like, they're just a few things. I'm just trying to help. I said, look, you're stuck in your functional skill. Is it fair to assume as a result of the assistance you're giving these people, they're going to be more successful when they get to China? She's like, I mean, yeah, I mean, that's the point, right? I said, great, then let's call you the China Success Coach. Forget about Mandarin education for a second. Let's create what we ended up calling the China Success Intensive, which was a 5-week program that worked with the executive, the spouse, and any children being relocated to China. Now she loved the idea of this, but she's like, well, who do I go and sell it to? What she's asking is, who do I go networking to meet? What social media content do I put out? And I said, who do you think? And she said, well, obviously it's the executive. Like everybody, people like to go with the biggest number of people possible because we have this scarcity of what if I don't get enough clients? I said, I get it. I just don't think it's your ideal client. I mean, I was terrified moving from Australia to the US and they're going to China where they don't speak the right, like, same language. Still don't think it's your ideal client. She's like, well, obviously the company would pay. They got millions of dollars riding on the executive being successful. And I said, yeah, I, I get that. I, I still don't think it's the right person. Now she's upset with me and she's like, well, who then? And I said, I think it's the immigration attorney. And now she looks at me like I'm speaking a foreign language. And I said, well, think about it for a second. These people make $5,000 to $7,000 for doing the visa, getting the client, which often isn't cheap. They've gotta deal with all the bureaucracy and paperwork. They've got rent to pay for, staff to pay for. They'd be lucky to make $3,000 for a successful visa. I said, so why not offer them $3,000 for a successful introduction to you? So she started networking to specifically speak to immigration attorneys. They love the idea. They're like, double my profit for a simple introduction? Sure. What do I have to say? She just had them say, congratulations, you've now got your visa. Robert, are you as ready as possible to be relocated to China? And what she would hear back, or they had them hear back often, was, yeah, I think we're good. We got our place sorted. We're learning the language. Kids are getting pretty good at it too. We got our visa sorted as well. You know, I think we're set. And she just had them respond with, there's a lot more to it than that. I think you need to speak to the China Success Coach. When you think about it, the easiest sale in the world, they were terrified to go. The organization was motivated to pay and they were recommended by their attorney, which is why she was able to charge $30,000 for doing this 5-week program minus a $3,000 commission. She made $27,000 for the easiest sale in the world is that are hustling every day in a crowded market to sell a commoditized service for $50 to $80 an hour and losing clients to technology and foreign competitors. So that's why for everyone that's listening, there's a lot you can do to grow a business. But if you want to grow a profitable business and get out of that hamster wheel grind, what you need to do is differentiate yourself. And the way I suggest you do that is you say, what are the things I do outside the scope of my functional skill? And that may not be for everybody. It may be for a specific group. But then people say the riches are in the niches. I'm not saying you need to niche down. I'm saying that if it's a small group that you can provide additional value to because you have your know-how or your understanding, then provide that and cash in on that and then say, of the course of all of this, what is the high-level benefit? For Wendy, it was e-commerce respect and rapport. The high-level benefit was China success. For me, I'm a business coach, I'm a branding consultant, I'm a social media strategist, I'm a sales expert, I'm a master in neurolinguistic programming and introversion. The only thing I know for a fact is nobody cares. They don't care how hard it was for me to learn this stuff or how long it took me. But when I say I'm the rapid growth guy, the simplicity of that message gets me heard in the crowd at Marketplace. It gets people to lean in and go, what exactly exactly is that. There's nothing more powerful than that in a networking room.

Fantastic. And you know what, you and I were talking about this offline and the, the importance of storytelling and how you get a message across. And I think the differentiation story you just shared is relatable to everybody, right? And I think everybody's now looking and hearing deep down in their soul what it is that they do that's different from everybody else. And I think very powerful message. Now, you wrote a book and it's behind you. It's called The Introvert's Edge. So what is the introvert's edge over— I'm assuming the edge over the extroverts. What is that? And, and maybe you can walk us through it.

Yeah, sure. So one of my favorite questions is, what is introversion? And I think these two dovetail together because a lot of people say introverts aren't natural salespeople, they're not natural networkers. And that may be true, but think away the, the way most extroverts sell and network. That's not something I'd like to duplicate. It doesn't even work that well for them. So when I think about what introversion is, introversion, I think the psychiatrists, psychologists have made it way too confusing. The fact of the matter is introversion is just this, where you draw your energy. That's it. You know, it's interesting. I spoke at the AAISP Leadership Summit, ridiculously long acronym for just the best salespeople in inside sales, and all the senior leadership were there. And you know, I spoke at this big grandiose event and then I did the leadership summit. I thought it'd be fun just to ask if they were introverted or extroverted. And I left it as a blank field to fill out rather than a tick box. And I would say there was more than a handful of people that said something akin to, oh, I was introverted, but don't worry, I'm not anymore. Like it's a disease they recovered from. And the fact of the matter is you can't change who you are. It's a personality type. And some people think they've recovered from introversion because they now find networking more comfortable. That just means they learned a strategy. It doesn't mean they're not tired afterwards, which brings me back to the technical definition. For me, introversion is just this. If you do social activities outside with a group of very close friends or family, you will have less energy than when you started. Or when you speak from stage or do a podcast interview with it like this, even though I'm enjoying doing it, doesn't mean you don't enjoy it. Even though you're enjoying doing it, it doesn't mean you're not tired afterwards and you need a more insular way of recharging. That's what introversion is. It doesn't mean you can't do it at all. It only means you're tired afterwards. Now, it does mean you have less natural ability, but then again, some might say extroverts don't have— they're not the most empathetic. They don't, they don't have great active listening skills, but any leader will tell you these are coachable, especially if they've read Daniel Goleman's work. These are coachable and learnable skills too. So is sales and networking. This brings me to the introvert's edge. Extroverts are better salespeople, better networking, better at networking right outta the gate, but they wing everything. Introverts, we're terrible at it. Let's be honest, we're just terrible at it. However, when we learn a system and process, because we're terrible at it, we hold onto it for dear life and then we get better at it. And then we tinker like a science experiment, improving one thing at a time. And just like any car manufacturer that builds everything one at a time, as you— sometimes the car turns on, sometimes it doesn't. But if you create a production line and constantly focus on improving the process, Less defects every time. And that's why introverts outsell the extroverts, because even when, unfortunately, even when an extrovert holds onto a sales process, eventually they let go and they're like, you know what, I'm gonna go back to winging things cuz that's where I get my greatest joy. Introverts just hold onto it, which means we have the benefit of creating a better system, outselling an extrovert, not on any single day, but of a whole week to week, and then actually passing it onto somebody else, which means we get to be the owner of our business, not the primary salesperson or reliant on on extroverted salespeople, which means also we have a sellable business. That's why I believe introverts have the edge, because when we have a system, we can also leverage our natural gifts like active listening, empathy, planning, preparation, all things that introverts are amazing at that extroverts can learn to do, but not something that they prioritize to do. Just like they like going back to winging things, they go back to what they feel comfortable. And that's why hands down, I believe introverts end up building better businesses, being better salespeople, out networking. And being better podcast hosts, truthfully, because we do more planning and preparation.

Fair enough. And so you've sort of brought up a few things a couple of times. One is the ability to sell a business because you've got a systemized sales process versus it being dependent on the individual to deliver that. And we talk about the 8 values of creating, you know, a saleable business. And one of them is owner dependence. And that's essentially the extension of it, right? Making sure that the company is not dependent on one individual individuals, specifically the owner of those relationships, but creating a system that works. With that in mind, and you've referred to sort of a sales system, what are the key elements to a sales framework that makes a sales system successful?

Sure. So firstly, let me do this. I'm going to tell everybody it doesn't matter what system you use. Now, I'm going to give you a framework, but I'm going to say it doesn't matter what system you use as long as you pick a system and not fall into what I call busy procrastination. People that hate sales introverts that don't really wanna be selling or wanting to be learning this stuff. What they do is they say, I'm going to learn sales. So they pick up 7 different books on sales, listen to 12 podcasts, buy 2 training courses, and they then decide to piece all these systems together to create the perfect system for them, which then gets overcomplicated, unwieldy, and they go, this isn't working and I haven't focused on my day job for any period of time. So I'm gonna go back to doing that. That is the definition of busy procrastination. Right? So what you need to understand is pick any system, whether it's mine or whether it's somebody else's, just pick a system and then just grab the major milestones. Forget about what all the words behind them are. Pick the major milestones in their system and put what you currently say into it. I'm forever saying this to people because, and my publisher hates me when I say this, I often say from stage, you don't need to buy my book. Just go to theintrovertsedge.com, which is my sales book's, uh, landing page. Download the first chapter. There you'll get, uh, if you download the first chapter, firstly, I'll give you un— like evidence you can't deny about why introverts make the best salespeople to help you believe in yourself. And then I'll literally give you the 7 chapter headings of what goes into a sales system. You'll quickly realize that if you put what you currently say into it, some things don't fit. Now here's the key. You shouldn't be saying that to customers, so throw that out. Then you'll realize there's some things that are out of order. Fix that order because that's probably why you're getting asked about price way too soon. And then you realize there's some gaping holes. So people know, and actually what's interesting is storytelling is one of the biggest features cuz people, the Stanford research says people remember up to 22 times more information when embedded into a story. Princeton research says that when you tell stories, it activates the reticular activating system of a brain and the brain of the receiver and the teller. So it creates artificial rapport. Which science also talks about how introverts are better at creating deeper rapport. And actually, funnily enough, it's still the story is better than the small talk rapport that extroverts used to generating. So quite frequently, especially in the new truncated sales timetable where you don't get 2 hours, you get 30 minutes, you don't have as much time. So most people say, well, I'm at 26 minutes, I've just done the rapport bit. Now they're asking me about the product. Nicole's almost over. So storytelling is one of those missing gaps that most people miss dramatically. Also, what you'll notice is the way I deliver stories is not a testimonial that feels uncomfortable, not an anecdote. It's almost a theatrical masterpiece where I've thought about the emotions and the dialogue that these have. Just very similar to the story about probably how you met your spouse. I've told it a thousand times. Over time, it gets better and better and better. I tell the same story every time because it works. I feel like most businesses are one story away from the rapid growth business they deserve. Why? Because they share it on a podcast, they can share it from stage, they can share it In a sales conversation, people, oh my gosh, I want what Wendy has. And so you then load that story in. Most people don't have that. They have anecdotes, case studies, testimonials, or if you're in wealth management, accounting, technology, what you feel like your job is to do is educate the customer and make the best decision. No, all you're doing is making them run into the hands of somebody that'll provide a worse service because the more you educate them, the more they're overwhelmed, the more they're gonna ask for a proposal. The more they're going to run away. The job of a salesperson, actually, literally the words to sell, those words were derived from the Scandinavian saying to serve, to serve a customer. Your job, if you have a product or service that genuinely benefits your customer, and if you don't, go sell something else, there's better things to do with your life. But if it does, your job is to get your customers out of their own way. And the best way to do that is a motivational and inspirational story that embeds you as the only logical choice. So you push them to take action even if it's not with you. But then why would they not want to do it with you if you were the one that did that for them? And that's why storytelling, usually asking not questions because people ask the dumbest, silliest questions because they've been told to ask questions, but the right questions and the one right story all the time, which genuinely is so much easier if you have one specialty or one focus or one group that you work with. With, that solves the problem. So if you go to theintrovertsedge.com, that'll give you the full sales system. That being said, storytelling and asking the right questions is where I would heavily focus.

Well, I look forward to downloading that chapter. In fact, I will be buying the book as well, and, uh, and we'll definitely put a link to getting access to your book because I think, you know, the value that you've provided already, I think that's the least everybody could do is to continue to focus on supporting you along your journey as well. So thank you for that and for those insights I have some rapid-fire questions for you, and I'm feeling like there's a chance that you may struggle with the rapid-fire component of it because you elaborate so well and tell such a great story. So I'm like ripping a storytelling opportunity out of these for you for the moment. Are you good with that?

I can do that. Who would have thought an introvert could be chatty?

Exactly right. No, I love it. And I think the context that you provide with everything and the storytelling makes everything way more interesting and it's way more engaging. So thank you for the way that you present this. So, but on the contrary, quick questions for you. So rapid fire, introverts or extroverts, who actually has the advantage in sales long term?

Introverts, as long as they're using a system.

As long as they're using a system. Biggest networking mistake entrepreneurs make?

Using an elevator pitch, which feels way too coerced and transactional. As opposed to something that talks about what they love to see, hate to see, and the mission they're on. Story for another podcast, but I also cover it in The Introvert's Edge to Networking, which is the sequel, uh, the sequel. Or saying they're not going to do that and then doing something like aimless networking, which doesn't work either. That just means you walk out with a bunch of business cards that never call you.

Yeah, I was going to say, based on your story of Wendy, you know, finding the right group to network with or the right space to find, you know, your key referrals or your key relationships seems to be extremely important. One thing founders waste too much time or money on in marketing—

doing it without a strategy. I mean, if you— so in networking, if you can't convince people, people feel like it's their job to explain what they do on their website, in social media, advertising. It's all about what we do. People want to know that you care before they care what you do, which is why I don't say an elevator pitch. I don't say explain what you do.

I don't—

definitely don't suggest that you then start saying, being smart and say, oh, I don't answer what I do, I just start asking them questions, because no one wants to be interrogated the moment they meet you. What I do when I go networking is I say I'm the rapid growth guy. They ask what it is. I say, well, one of the things I love to see is an introverted service provider with enough talent, skill, and belief in themselves to start a business of their own. But what I find, and I just hate seeing this, is they often get stuck in an endless hamster wheel of struggling to find interested people, trying to set themselves apart, trying to feel like they're making the sale while people only care about one thing: price. Know anyone like that? Notice I didn't tell you what I did. I didn't even tell you who I am and what I do because no one cares. They started to see that what I care about is the problem that they have. And then I explain what the mission that I'm on, where again, I don't tell you what I do. That's what the story's for. And on online and offline, that strategy works. Most people don't have a strategy because they spent no time trying to figure out how to differentiate themselves, only try to learn what they do and explain what they do. And that doesn't work.

My next question probably ties into exactly that. What's the fastest way to stop competing on price?

I mean, learning how to differentiate yourself and like there's a secret secret trick in my networking book where my last chapter says my whole goal of teaching you how to master the networking room had nothing to do with showing you how to get stuck in a networking room. The whole goal is to master the networking room so you never have to go back to one unless you choose to. And what I found is people can't successfully articulate the value of what they do to get beyond pricing when somebody's politely listening for 3 minutes. So how do you do it online when people give you fractions of a So you need to learn how to be the clearest, not the loudest in a networking room so you don't have to go to as many and learning how to be the clearest, not the loudest online. So you don't have to be taking a photo of your dog or donut on social media. Say, look at me, I'm still here. You don't wanna be the loudest. You just wanna be the clearest so you can do a lot less. And truthfully, you don't need to worry about all the algorithm rubbish at that point because you can use technology and just constantly being present for those right people with the right message to make sure you still make more money than those people with a million followers.

So Matthew, this has been great. Tell me a little bit though, what is the Rapid Growth Coach? Explain that to me.

For me, it's very much about getting the strategy right. I mean, it's very clear, you know, to the point when somebody asked me, when I say in a networking room, do you know anyone like that? And they say, yes, you know, I'm like that, or I know someone like that. I say, well, I'm on a mission to help the people like yourself realize you really can have a rapid growth business doing what you love, just not by getting better at your functional skill. Instead, just 3 things outside the scope of their functional skill. That really allow them to create a business that revolves around them, their family, and their lives, not the other way around. So what are those 3 things? The answer is learning how to differentiate, coming up with a unified message like the Rapid Growth Guide, the China Success Coach, learning how to specialize. I'm not talking about niching and I'm not talking about going into a specific industry. There is what's called— you can outcome specialize. Most people don't know what that is. And you know, in my networking book, I do talk about it. If we had more time, I would share it with you today. And then creating a sales system that's actually structured to work, that you can experiment changing one thing at a time. That's the entire rapid growth system. And for me, there's also packaging and pricing to stimulate purchasing behavior, getting yourself in the right mindset. Sure, there's other things to it, but if you understand those are the 3 things that you need to master, and if you master those, you get to earn the income you deserve for the rest of your life and the profit you deserve. More importantly, we were talking before, I speak at a lot of events. You have to have $1 million revenue to qualify, but usually you're making— they're making less money than most of the people working for them. These are the 3 things that separate that. They're all vital and most people don't know how to do them. And if helpful for those people that want to create that unified message, their version of the China success coach, and develop that specialization, I actually have a link that you can go to, matthewpollard.com/growth, and there you'll be able to download a 5-step template. I did this at the National Freelance Conference and nearly 200 people in the room at the end of 45 minutes. I said, look, put your head— sorry, it was, it was 90 minutes. Put your hands up if you now have a unified message that can separate you and you've identified a specialty where people will pay you what you're worth and you now know how to kind of articulate your value to them. 97% of the room put their hands up. The sad part is it was 90 minutes long. Most people have spent years learning their profession, less than 90 minutes trying to figure it out for themselves, how to get paid what they're worth. And again, you don't need to hire me for this. Download that template at matthewpollard.com/growth. Get someone else that's not in your industry to listen to this podcast though, because if you're both in the same industry, you'll get stuck in industry junk. So if you're a CPA, go talk to a ghostwriter or a life coach or something. Work with them, get them to spend 90 minutes on you, you spend 90 minutes on them, your life would be very different afterwards.

So Matthew, last question here for you because I know we're running short on time, but if you knew back when you started what you know now, what's one thing that you would have changed?

I think I wouldn't have sold the first product. I believe you can create rapid growth out of anything. And there's nothing worse than a rapid growth business with customers you don't like in a business you can't stand. And so my first business, because I'd sold telecommunications, was a telecommunications business. And there was nothing more soul destroying than learning that you were making incredible money, being scared to leave that incredible money because I defined my entire life by that's the only success I'd had and constantly talking about call rates that did not matter to me because who cares if people are— well, I mean, I could— I deluded myself by saying if I can save them $200 or $2,000 a year, I'm really changing the world. No, I wasn't. I was talking about call rates. So I believe a lot of people say follow your passion and the money will follow. I think that's rubbish. I think that you need to be a little bit more strategic about it. But truthfully, I have learned that if you say I am going to follow my passion, I am going to build a business that genuinely helps people in a way that I care. And if you don't know that, that's the thing you need to solve first. And there's actually a really easy way to do that. But once you know that, being open to monetization strategies, thinking about creativity, using creativity, but then logically saying, is it scalable? Will it make money and will it be profitable? And then once you nail that, you should double down completely on that rather than hedging or hiding away from answering the question, which I definitely did the first time. I was like, no, this is the only way I can make money. This is all I'll ever be. No, trust yourself. There's going to be a way to make money doing what you love. And I prove that every day. And I just want the same for everyone else.

Fantastic answer. Love that. Matthew Pollard, everybody, the rapid growth coach, the author of The Introvert's Edge. Matthew, what's the best way for people to reach out or connect with you?

The matthewpollard.com/growthlink so they can do that exercise would be helpful. Checking out the two books, the first chapters are available at theintrovertsedge.com and theintrovertsedgetonetworking.com. But if you hear this episode and you work with a partner and you struggle then feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn. And again, you can't follow— you won't be able to do this if you follow me, but if you click the connect button, I will— and say you heard me on this podcast, I will accept you. And then you can send me an audio message. Most people don't know you can do this. You can't do it on a PC, but on iPhone and Android, you can send up to a 60-second question. So be mindful of what you ask and the word choices that you use, because if I get 6 audio messages, I'm not going to reply. But if you send me a 60-second audio with your question, I will give you an answer. And the other thing I will tell you, it's a wonderful tool to get people to reengage with you if they've ghosted you in a sale. Like, just send them an audio message on LinkedIn. Connect before the sale, afterwards send them an audio message and say, hey Robert, you know, don't worry about the deal. It's just unlikely not to respond to me. Just send me an audio message. Let me know that you're okay. I guarantee the response you'll get back is because you led with empathy was, oh, don't worry, Robert, I'm fine. Thanks for checking in. They'll give you the status of the deal. And by the way, how did you do that? Because no one knows you can do it right now. And it gives you that first mover advantage to be able to reengage with people. But it's also a great way to have a walkie-talkie conversation with me in order to break through whatever barrier that stops you from busy procrastinating after listening to this episode.

That's amazing. Matthew, thank you so much, my friend. I appreciate this. It's great to collaborate with great experts like you. I'm really glad you jumped in and spent some time with us today.

It was my pleasure, Robert. Thanks for having me on.

All right, guys, this is the Wealthy Entrepreneur Podcast. I'm your host, Bob Gauvreau. It's been a pleasure to have you here with us today. Just keeping in mind, our purpose is to help educate entrepreneurs with the financial confidence they need in order to really make drastic improvements in their business. And again, I've said this before, entrepreneurs are the most powerful community in the world of making positive change. So let's continue to move that mission forward. Do you have any questions? Drop comments in. Give us a like. If there's someone that you know would benefit from learning from Matthew today, make sure that you grab this, you share it out. Again, we're here to make a positive change in the entrepreneurial community. Give us a follow. We're going to see you again next week. But thanks again for spending time with us. Look forward to the next time.