Unpacking the Truth About Ultra Processed Foods

You blow my mind.

Hey everybody, I'm Amy and this is the be where you are today podcast where we connect with professionals in the fitness and nutrition space to help you wherever you are on your health journey. Today I'm joined by registered dietitian nutritionist Vivian Skeper. She is our dietitian over in the Body Fit Athletic Club. She is a licensed and registered dietitian nutritionist. She graduated from an accredited dietetic internship internship at the Pennsylvania State University. She also has a Bachelor of Science in Human Nutrition and Dietetics from the Metropolitan State University of Denver and a Bachelor of Arts in Public Health from the University of Colorado in Denver. And she has professional experience in everything from epidemiology, food safety, clinical nutrition, weight management, and health coaching. So, as you can see, she knows her science. And one of the things that myself and all of our members over in the Body Fit Athletic Club love about her is she knows her science, she can interpret the research, but she also can communicate it in a way to all of us where we can understand it. So I have no doubt that's what we're going to do today because we are covering a very hot topic, something that has been all over social media and the news and as with many things can get a little confusing and does require some context and nuance and an expert to help guide us through this topic. And that is processed and more specifically, ultra processed foods. So that's what we're talking about today. Welcome, Vivian.

Thanks for having me. Very excited to be here.

All right, so let's just jump right in. I feel like I am seeing so much, so many podcasts and news articles and news stories on TV and just to be honest, TikToks and Instagram Reels and lots of things on social media about this topic. Are you seeing the same thing? And why do you think this is so popular right now?

Yes, I'm definitely noticing the same thing. It really is all over social media. You're not imagining this. The topic of processed foods has been around for a while. Really well over a decade at this point. I think the popularity of the subject has ebbed and flowed for many years. Usually what I've noticed anyways, processed food conversations tend to peak when there's a new study that comes out and maybe that study gets a little bit of media coverage. The then it gets people talking, the conversations get rolling, and then after a while, people generally tend to move on to the next viral or trending topic. And then we see the topic of processed foods kind of decline. I would say that the topic of ultra processed foods has resurfaced in the last 6ish months or so and it has remained a hot topic of conversation. So several media outlets and podcasts and just social media individuals have been doing segments on the health effects of ultra processed foods. So this topic definitely has a lot of momentum. I think a big part of what is driving this conversation, at least here in the United States, is the Make America Healthy Again movement, which if you're unfamiliar, was launched on September 4, 2024, so about 6ish months ago. And this post political action committee aims to focus on health related policies. And the person championing this is Robert F. Kennedy Jr. One of the topics that he has brought up is processed foods and their health effects on humans on the American people. And I think that has gotten a lot of people interested in talking and discussing and wanting to learn more about processed foods.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I think a lot of us, since it has been such a big topic in recent months and years, a lot of us are looking for just insight on what does this really mean, how do I implement this into my own life? And when you do a Google search, because I did this in preparing for this podcast of the terms, specifically the term ultra processed food, you find so many definitions, right? I saw one site that was saying that canned food was minimally processed, but then there was another site saying it was processed and then another site that said it was ultra processed. As a dietitian, how do you define these terms? Or is there a certain way we can be looking to understand these terms a little better?

Yeah, I hate to say this, but there is no great system when it comes to processed foods. It's messy. And I think because it's messy, you, you end up with so many different definitions and opinions on say a can of beans. Is it process? Is it minimally process, Is it ultra process? Nobody knows. And depending on where you look, you are going to get different answers. And I think a lot of that stems from the fact that we don't have a great classification system for this. I will say many researchers have been using the NOVA food classification system to categorize foods based on their level of processing. And NOVA does not stand for something. It's not an acronym or anything like that. It's actually a system that was developed by a school of public health at the University of Sao Paulo in Brazil. The NOVA system has four groups of processed foods with group one being the least processed and group four being the most processed. Most organizations Use this system. Like this system, however, there are other systems. It also varies from country to country. Here in the United States, we use this system, which was developed in Brazil. Other countries may use different systems. And this creates that confusion. For is it this, is it that, is it this, or is it that? So very briefly I can touch on the groups and what they mean. So we have group one, which is unprocessed or minimally processed foods. And something that I do want to add is you've probably heard, and I think so many of us have heard, so you got to be careful with the processed foods. Processed foods are bad. But I think also we need so much context here because what are you referring to exactly? Right, right. And so at least with this system, it gives us a little bit more context. But as we dive into this conversation, you'll notice very quickly just how messy it can get. Group one, unprocessed or minimally processed foods. These are generally your naturally occurring foods with no added salt, sugar, oils or fats. Think your milk, think your meat, eggs, fish, poultry, most fresh fruits and vegetables, that type of thing. Group two, it's going to be slightly processed, or what I've also heard is processed culinary ingredients. And these are essentially foods that have had some degree of processing. So whether it's pressing, refining, grinding. So notice what I just said there. Pressing, refining, grinding. So now we have the, let's say we're talking about ground chicken or ground beef. So then now because it's ground, ground, it's now in that process two category. But is. Isn't it really the same thing? So this is where it can start to just get confusing. Right, but that's generally group two. So processed culinary ingredients or slightly more processed. Then you have group three. And these are really going to be some. This is the processed foods category. These are food products that are made by adding sugar, oil and or salt or all the above in order to create a shel stable and maybe tasty product. And so some examples of this can be things like canned vegetables, it can be things like canned beans, but it can also be certain things that we think of like maybe some chips or sugared nuts or something like that. Notice how this gets messy already, because let's say that I'm buying a can of beans from the grocery store, but this can of beans is maybe fire roasted flavored or something like that. And it has maybe a little oil, it has a pinch of salt, it has a little pinch of sugar, and then maybe it has some spices. Is that technically bad? Not necessarily. But now it falls in a very different process category because of the added ingredients. And then finally we have group four, ultra processed foods. And I think this is the stuff that everybody generally concerns themselves with. So this is going to be your breakfast cereals, your impossible burgers, flavored yogurts, your frozen pizzas, your sodas, other soft drinks, candy rolls, breads, that type of thing.

Wow, that's a lot, right? It's good to know that. Actually, I find that system very helpful. But what I always come back to is so many of these things were designed one for food safety, right. To make things last a little bit longer. A lot of people don't live in a place where they can walk to the grocery store every day, or they have to stock up, or they just don't have the resources to buy. So a lot of it is making food more accessible, safer.

Right.

And the thing I always come back to is making my life easier.

Right.

When I think about the difference of if I have to make something totally fresh, where I have to cut it and I have to cook it and I have to. Beans is actually a good example. If I just get dry beans, that's a long process of cooking that versus just opening the can, adding it to scrambled eggs or a salad or something like that. In a lot of ways, I think we forget that a lot of these are to our benefit. In a lot of ways. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are healthier or unhealthier, but they serve a specific purpose in regards to whether that is how they're stored, how they're sold, or how we can integrate them into our lives. But that's really helpful. Thank you for that. So now that we've talked about that again, we just were mentioning how we're seeing this pop up all over social media. And some of that is the current political climate where it's coming up a lot. And some of it is just people are just wanting to be more informed on what they're putting into their bodies. We've seen that a lot over the last many years. Is there newer research about ultra processed foods specifically that gives us some insight on all of that?

Yeah, so there are some studies and one particular one definitely got people talking. And it was a really large study with over 100,000 participants, and it found that for every 10% increase in ultra processed foods, there was a 12% increase in cardiovascular disease. Relatively alarming. Another study, a Systematic Review of 20 Studies, found that as humans decrease the proportion of ultra processed foods that they consume, they reduce their Likelihood of disease. Should we pay attention to our consumption of ultra processed foods? Absolutely. Is there legitimate concerns with the amount of ultra processed foods that we consume in our diets? Absolutely. But does that absolutely mean that we need to completely eliminate all ultra processed foods? Not necessarily. And I think what's more important, something I see a lot on social media, is a demonization of a specific ingredient. It's the soda specifically, or it's the Doritos specifically, or it's this thing specifically. And I think you die.

It's the.

Yeah, yeah, 100%. Exactly. And I think what needs to be, to be part of the bigger conversation is it's not a specific food, but rather it's the proportion of processed foods that we are consuming. So the fact that you end up having a bag of Doritos once a year, is that really it? Or are Doritos and, I don't know, other packaged foods a common occurrence in your everyday diet? That's where we start to distinguish what's what.

And I think you and I have talked about this a lot and I love this reminder that it is the balance. But it's also just when we think more about our diet as a whole comprehensively, not just this one thing at this one time, or things that are more common versus less common, that's really helpful for me to think about because I think for diet culture has taught us like this is good, this is bad, and that's really not how it works. That's not how it works for our bodies. And that's not a helpful way to think of things both physically for what's happening in our body nutritionally, but also emotionally. That really gets into our head when we think in those ways. So then when we're looking at these definitions, I think this is one of the hard parts to get across to people. That bag of Doritos is in the same category as something like flavored Greek yogurt or my protein powder, which I love my protein powder. I have it most days of the week because it helps me get extra protein when I'm trying to get more of that. So when we're talking these things that like ranking is one better than the other if they're in the same category? How do you break that down when you're advising clients on, again, how we look at ultra processed foods as a whole?

Yeah, that's a really great question. So when I'm working with a specific person, I'm really interested in understanding their entire dietary pattern. So let's say I have a client that maybe starts their morning with some orange juice and maybe a prepackaged blueberry muffin and then maybe one of the Celsius energy drinks. So immediately, yes, I could have my mindset on, whoa, that's a lot of ultra processed foods. Which true, it is. But most importantly, what I'm noticing is that by consuming these ultra processed foods, we are also displacing the opportunity to be able to have less processed foods, AKA more protein, more fiber, more color. The next question though is why is this person relying on these foods? And that's a really important question to ask. I think most people that I have worked with, they don't always necessarily enjoy the convenience packaged foods that they are consuming, but time, energy, access and money are factors in what they can and cannot eat. And a big part of what I do then is can we brainstorm together this patient that I'm working with and me, can we brainstorm this together to figure out a way to add more nutrition to your day? And of course, I would love it if we could move you from a mostly packaged, ultra processed foods diet to a minimally processed group one category. But is that even an option? And the answer for a lot of people is no. And that's when I think there are many other factors at play here that make this really complicated.

Yeah, I'm so glad you bring that up. And I know you talk about this a lot and these are conversations that come up in the Body Fit athletic club, but I think just in the nutrition space in general, that's a part that's often left out in what we're seeing. We're seeing, oh, say no to processed foods, you want to eat whole foods, you want to do this. But nobody's talking about the barriers that maybe aren't. I would relate it to the same thing. When people think that just people who don't exercise are just lazy, that's not often the case or that they hate exercise. Sometimes it is a lot of time, resources, money, bandwidth, all of those things. So I'm so glad that you and you bring that up with most of the nutrition topics that we talk about. And I, in the athletic club, I feel like we have these conversations with everybody from the sports, single 25 year old who lives alone and is working two jobs and just doesn't have the time, to the family who's trying to feed six people. And there's a lot of parts to this problem, if we want to come call it a problem, this trend of trying to be aware of process and ultra process that Go beyond just looking at the label. Right. Or shopping on the perimeter of the grocery store. The things that we hear. And I think that's so important. We've had so many discussions in the BAC about, let's start with this. We're not going to go from one extreme to the other. That's usually not sustainable, that's usually not possible. But there are ways to make some changes. So on that same note, are there things that we can look for when we're trying to make those choices? Maybe it is the difference of this or this in the grocery store, is one better than the other? Are there things that you advise, oh, look for this on the label or don't look for this. Or simple ways that we can have a little more awareness when we are both shopping and also preparing meals?

Yeah, that's a great question. So I think the first thing to think about is, and I say this to all my clients, I want you to think about your circumstances. First of all, let's start there. Where are we? Because I know that you have the intentions to make everything from scratch and it would be so ideal and so wonderful, but can you. So let's start there. Let's think about your circumstances. Do you have the ability, the opportunity to make some changes to your current dietary patterns? And if you're like, yes, I do. Okay, great, then let's start to think about. And I'm a big proponent more on the what we can add rather than cut this out, take this away. So what I want to know is, are you eating a variety of different colors? Are you eating fiber rich foods and not the fiber rich sodas, which are healthy, but also very much ultra processed. Right. And that's not the fiber I want to hear about or the fiber one bar. I want to know, are you eating sweet potatoes? Are you eating avocados? Are you eating berries? Are you eating whole grains? That's what I want to know. First of all, find out, are colors not from skittles? Are colors present in your diet? Yes or not? Are you consuming produce? Are you consuming fiber? Again, from real sources, beans, avocados, etc. Are you consuming protein? What kind of proteins are you consuming? Are they mostly hot dogs, sausage, pepperoni, or is it mostly salmon, fish, chicken, beef? So those are the questions that I really want to know is first of all, what's the baseline? Where are we here? And then if the answer is, yeah, not a lot of color, not a lot of fiber, protein, yeah. Okay. All right, then let's focus on how can we Add to these categories that are missing and naturally, just by focusing more on the addition of these foods, you're naturally going to displace some of these other ultra processed foods. That said, this gets tricky because again, that's why that first question is really important. What is your ability? What opportunities do you have to make changes? Because maybe you do want to make fish and salmon and ground beef and all of the things from scratch and that would be really ideal. But, but you have a 25 minute lunch break and you have to go from point A to point B. And when you get home, it's pure chaos. You're dealing with the kids, you're doing the homework, there's everything. And while you would love to do that, it's just not a realistic and feasible option. And then we can look into what about that protein powder? Because turns out that if I mix that with a little water and maybe I would say is there any way that you have a portable blender and we can maybe add in some fiber rich produce in there to try to bring up the nutrition to that? Those are the things that I'm talking about. How can we brainstorm together then and meet you where you are? Maybe you do need to rely on this ultra processed protein powder. And when you're choosing that, what are some of the things that you can look for? Does it have a lot of added sugars? Does it have a lot of fillers in there? Does it have a lot of sodium? For instance? I like protein powders that tend to have simpler ingredients. So if you're looking for a whey protein powder, ideally the protein powder would have whey or if it's a chocolate flavored one, maybe it has cocoa powder, the whey protein powder and ideally maybe to make it taste good, sometimes they will add stevia or monk fruit or maybe real cane sugar. It depends. But I think that's another important thing is when choosing some of these ultra processed foods, can you pick one that maybe does not have excessive amounts of added sugars or things added to it to the best of your ability? Because that also raises another question, right? The more minimal ingredient the protein powder, the more expensive it is. So can you afford that? And if the answer is yes, cool, proceed. And if the answer is no, then you just gotta meet yourself where you are and just think about what are some other ways that I can add nutrition into my day, if there are certain parts of it that I'm just not quite fully in control. I think something that's really important to point out too is that research studies have looked at the consumption of ultra processed foods. And again, it's tricky to define because as I gave you those statistics about this 12% increase in cardiovascular disease, are we talking about cottage cheese and Greek yogurt and canned beans? Oh, no, that's actually not okay. Those are ultra processed foods, but not those. Okay, so then what? Oh, you mean more the packaged donuts, the packaged cookies, the super sugary cereals, the sodas. Okay, and so that's where it starts to get messy. My sort of challenge to everyone is, hey, I love, as a dietitian, I love the idea of eating foods as close to their natural state as possible. And I encourage everyone that has the option and ability to do that. It's great. But I also understand, I myself am a busy person and sometimes, despite my best intentions, it's really hard for me to make everything from scratch. I would love to make my own salad dressings, my own sauces, my own marinades, my own everything. But that's just not realistic given the current life that we have with full time jobs and multiple commitments. So then it becomes a matter of if I need to rely on these foods, how can I try to keep them to a minimum? And most importantly, what can I add to my diet to make sure that I'm getting plenty of nutrition? Because I do think that's another point too that's often not talked about. When it comes to ultra processed foods we often talk about, there seems to be something that's, you know, they're not healthy, they're not this. And it's, that's fair. But is it. Because when we're consuming most of these foods, we're not really getting lots of protein. We're getting predominantly refined carbohydrates, very little fiber, and really not a lot of phyto, phytochemicals, antioxidants. And is that the problem? And the moment that we can start to add those things in, do we naturally decrease our consumption of those ultra processed foods? That's my approach. I don't know that everyone would agree with me, but I do think for sure, in the dietetics and nutrition space, these are conversations that come up a lot.

Yeah. And it's a question of again, ideal is not always realistic. And I think that is such an important point that gets overlooked. And the next question I had for you, really I think you just answered, is that there is this statistic that gets thrown around that is that Americans now get most of their calories from ultra processed foods. And the question is From a dietitian's perspective, why do we think that is?

No, again, time, energy, access, money, these things matter and they are huge real factors that impact people's ability to eat healthy foods. And I think that's why I also think that, because we don't have a really great classification system. Also you could be eating canned beans, protein powder, and maybe baby spinach that has been triple washed. And technically that all falls in the ultra processed category, but actually a pretty nutritious, rounded diet. So I think it's also difficult to capture. What do you mean exactly? People are eating ultra processed foods or processed foods at really high levels. But how can we sort it out? Because what are we using to define this?

Right, There are a lot of foods that are marketed as healthy protein bars, things like that. Again, convenience food, but is in the health space because it's high protein or low sugar or something like that. How do we reevaluate what it means to be healthy?

Yeah, no, I think I would bring it back to that point of what do we need to add to the diet? Because again, I think people often ask me, is this protein bar good or is it bad? Is this good or bad? Is this healthy or unhealthy? And generally speaking, if you tell me, hey, here's a Dr. Pepper, is this healthy or unhealthy? Pretty high in added sugars, not something that I would call a health food. However, I need to know, are you consuming one a day, four a day or one a year? And ultimately I need to know what else are you eating? Is this soda, is this protein bar? Is this insert food that you're like, is this healthy, unhealthy, is this ultra processed or not? My question, is this making up? And foods like it, are these making up 50, 60% of your diet or are they making up a half percent, 1%? Because if it's the 1%, hey, I don't care. But if suddenly I'm working with a client right now who has gotten into the aloha bars and it's, oh, it's healthy and it's organic and she's been having three of them a day. And very easily I notice that when she's relying on these. And why is she relying on them? Time, energy, right? And it's, it's, this is just when I'm in a bind, this is what I eat. Okay, fine, fair. But very easily, as I'm reviewing this, these food journals, immediately I see that these bars are taking place of other foods. And then when I see this person not eating or choosing these bars, then immediately I see, oh, there's the spinach. Oh, there are the green beans. So there's the asparagus, there's the chicken, the salmon. So really bringing it back more to. Instead of asking this sort of individual, is this good or is this bad? Really what I want to ask, what I want you to ask yourself, is this food or these types of food making up a significant portion of my diet? And if the answer is yes, then what can I add to change this proportion to decrease my intake of these types of foods?

That's so helpful. I think too something that we're thankfully hearing more about is that statistic that gets thrown around because it's also talked about when it comes to obesity levels or rising obesity levels in the US Is it the ingredients that are in these ultra processed food or is it the lack of protein, fiber, nutrients that we often get from other foods, or is it finding that the ultra processed foods, because they don't have that, people are hungrier and then they're overeating? I think there's again, this is why this topic is so nuanced. You can't just break it down to this one thing. So last question and this as cause you've been on the podcast a few times. We do this with every podcast guest because it is the Be where youe Are Today podcast. We want to know where you are today. So let's talk specifically about processed and ultra processed food. Where are you today? Do you eat them? How do you find the balance?

Of course I eat them. Of course I want to focus on minimally processed foods. I really stand by the philosophy of eating foods as close to their natural state as possible when it's feasible. That said, that's not always feasible. And then I think about, okay, what are some processed foods, ultra processed foods that are going to help me out in this situation? Right. I also have the knowledge to be able to assess some of these products, but generally assess a product to figure out really the main thing I would say to look at is certain fillers and added sugars for sure. With processed foods. I think of a member in the Body Fit Athletic Club who asked me specifically about Goldfish. I think this is an important story to share because she, as the conversations of processed foods have been circling around. She was somebody that at one point in her life was trying to have everything be organic and healthy. She was trying to puree baby food and just do everything from scratch. And she hit a wall and was burnt out immediately. And it was really hard to do. And she's relaxed and improved her relationship with food and is able to offer her kids some snacks that their peers are also consuming, like goldfish. But then as the conversation around processed foods begin to spread, she started to feel a little bit afraid about, is this okay, should I be eliminating this goldfish? And I think again, bringing it back to how much goldfish are you having? Is 100% of their diet goldfish? And goldfish like foods, for instance. So is it cereal and then chips and then goldfish and then maybe cereal again or. Which is what's actually happening is are the children having maybe some strawberries and some veggie scrambles and different things and they're having some carrot sticks at lunches and they're really having well balanced meals. And then there's a sprinkle of goldfish. Just a handful of them. Just adds to the fun and the satisfaction. And they also feel like, oh yeah, sometimes I see my classmates eating this and this feels normal. And I think that just brings a whole nother conversation about the demonization of foods. And if we suddenly say, hey, let's just completely remove that, but then you see other people enjoying it, it can really mess with your relationship with food. And if it was truly a situation of this food is dangerous, then that be one thing. But again, context matters. And not a single food on its matter how ultra processed it is going to damage your health. It's about the proportion, it's about the overall amount. So that's where I am with processed foods. Let's think about where people are. And meeting yourself where you are, that.

Feels like the perfect way to close this podcast. That's the perfect takeaway, right? I'm not even going to try to paraphrase it, just rewind. People, just listen to Those, those last 20 seconds. That's all we need to know. Anyway, thank you so much for all of this insight, Vivian. It's really helpful just to learn from your expertise, but also just your practical approach and for all of us to recognize that health is not about one specific thing or one specific category or it being very this or that. There is a lot of nuance in contact involved. And that is something that you and I both really try to focus on here at Bodyfit by Amy. Certainly in the BodyFit Athletic Club, when we're working with individuals more directly and just with what we're putting out into the fitness and nutrition space, into the world in general. So hopefully we can get more of that. And of course, everyone, we will have Vivian back. We've had her a few times. She is part of our team and she is a wealth of knowledge, both the science and the SaaS which we love about her. So thank you so much, Vivian. We will see you next time.

All right. Sounds good. Thanks for having me.

Thanks so much to Vivian for joining us today and thank you for listening. I'm Amy reminding you to show up, keep moving and be where you are today.

Sam.