Ep 36: Don't Be A Hero

From performance-riders.com, this is the Parbery Podcast. I'm Nat Foxen, and each episode I challenge World Equestrian Games top 10 dressage rider Brett Parbery to explain and discuss what I call a Parberyism. That's a pearl of wisdom I've written down over the years of working together in our Performance Riders programs. Brett doesn't know what today's Parberyism is. Let's get into it. Okay, Brett Parbery, are you ready for today's Parberyism?

I'm ready to go.

Okay. Today's Parberyism is, don't be a hero, be a horse person. Don't be a hero, be a horse person. Okay. Interesting one. What does this mean to you, Brett?

Um, it means a lot, a lot of things. And I guess as soon as I think of that, I think of all, all horse disciplines, to be honest. So not only dressage, but every horse discipline out there. Um, and I also reflect back on, you know, my own ego and, um, things, mistakes I've made in the past about— and look, it's again, it's normal. You tend to have these beautiful horses, you know, coming back to the dressage discipline, of these beautiful horses that move amazing and you're out there doing a stallion show and everyone's clapping and cheering and you're there prancing around. You know, that's— I think of all of that. You know, you're pressing the horse and it's trotting like hell. And, um, you know, in, in reality, when you think about that, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's fun. It's a bit of entertainment. We can't not entertain. But, um, the horse is learning absolutely nothing. from that experience, you know, apart from, you know, getting frazzled mentally. But that's the hero, like the, the whole thing of, um, you know, trying to almost put your ego in front of the fact of that this is a horse learning something underneath you.

Yeah.

But, you know, you could talk about that for days, I guess. But I think of other disciplines too. Like, I've noticed, you know, I've been lucky enough to do quite a few different disciplines in in the horse sports. And I think about horses that make mistakes and the person overcorrects them. Yes, blames them.

And I mean, we've all been there. Like, God, I, I just— it— I cringe thinking about, you know, how I was when I was younger in that regard. The overcorrections. Oh God, horrible. Yeah.

And, and yeah, I mean, there's— you can again talk for a whole session on that as well because I've sort of You know, you make corrections when you're riding, you know, according to your experience, and you make them according to your philosophy, and you make them according to your mentorship that you've had in the past. And, um, and, you know, oftentimes I've said to people, oh, don't, don't overcorrect that, like, just go a bit easier. And they make a bit of an overcorrection, but the horse goes better after.

Mm-hmm.

So you're like, okay, that worked. So there's a fine line. So I don't think we can beat ourselves up all the time because there is a fine line between having pressure release and escalating pressures and releases. But then when it's done with ego or with a hero mindset, you know, this horse has made me look bad in front of all these people.

Yes.

Then it's, it's, there's an emotion. And I think the horses sense the emotion. I really think they sense someone correcting them, being firm if need be, but with a cool mindset, with a really quick rewarding pressure release, rewarding versus someone who's doing it out of emotion and anger. And it's a lot more frightening for them.

I also, when I think of hero, I think of someone who Feels like they're going to stand out the front on their own and they are, you know, steering this ship alone and it's only them that's going to get them through. But I think if there's, you know, one thing that all of us in the, the programs that we run have learned is that we're so much better together. We're so much better together and learning from each other.

Very, very true as a community. You know, the other thing I think of too when I was listening to his talk then was, um, you know, it doesn't happen so much anymore, but I can remember, and I often hear it in a lot of other disciplines, but, um, people sort of saying, oh, that horse is no good. Um, and admittedly, in dressage, you can pretty much take 95% of horses and, and figure them out and turn them into a better version of themselves through training. There's some that you can't, like there's just some that—

Yeah.

The mind is not there or the physical abilities just are not there. But to be honest, it's probably a sport where you can influence a horse, uh, the betterment— the horse, finding the better version of the horse the most. So, but I also hear, um, in other disciplines, oh, that horse is no good, and that horse is, you know, no good and useless and all the rest. And then I see it go with someone else who just thinks about it differently and does different exercises and takes more time and does things in a different way and shows a real horsemanship-rounded approach.

Right.

And they get that horse to find the best in itself. So oftentimes You know, I often sort of think to myself, the goal here, no matter what we do, whether it's cutting, reining, dressage, jumping, how— like, our job that we should do, or approach this in a way, is to find the best in the horse, not necessarily produce the horse to be a winner.

Mm-hmm.

And then if you don't win, it's useless. You know, of course, we all love to win, and we'll But then it's another mindset of, I'm going to bring out the best in this horse, find the best. And that best is mental, physical confidence development. Um, yeah.

And, and let's talk about that horse— horsemanship, horse— being a great horse person and what that means and how it's not being a hero? Like, what is a good horse person to you?

I, I think a good horse person is, first of all, someone who's quite humble. Um, you know, when you, you meet the best ones, the really, really top— you know, I've been lucky enough to meet the legends of the sports across a lot of disciplines, and those legends have a real— there's a different aura in them, about them, and There's a real humbleness and there's a real curiosity and there's a calmness and there's a lot of, you know, question asking and listening. Listening is probably the biggest key. And that's— they're the qualities that I noticed in someone. But then I see them ride and they ride with a real— there's no ego, of course. Um, that's usually been beaten out of them by the time they get to that legend status. Uh, well, they didn't have it in the first place, but they've probably made the mistakes like everyone But, um, there's a real calmness and, and they chip away and they're very mindful of the small, the small progresses. And, and they're also very open to say, well, this, this horse, you know, he's a little restricted here, but I'm really, you know, and they have a really good understanding of where is, where's the best of the horse.

Yeah.

And I think we can all fall into the trap of either over-facing horses that aren't quite ready or trying to make a horse that's probably a bit limited in some areas into something they're not. And then of course, it always goes the other way where they start to worry, they get tense, there's issues, you know, the issues. that come up. So, um, yeah, that's what I think of when I think of a really good horse person.

Um, it must be really hard for some professionals, and I know you've been in this situation where, you know, you're at a stage of your career in the early years where you're kind of hired because you are a bit of a hero and people think that you're going to fix all these problems that, you know, us riders have probably created in our horses. Um, but then you also have to balance that with really high horsemanship skills. Like, that must be actually a really interesting sort of contrast and conflict in the early stages of careers. Like, do you remember back to those years?

And oh yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. Um, I just want to also mention there quickly that probably the biggest thing is empathy. I just was thinking then, one thing I left out with that was empathy. That all those top people have a real empathy, um, for everything, like for people who are struggling and people and horses that can't, you know, do it or can't understand. There's an empathy there. But back on that whole commercial riding thing, yes, of course. Like, so, you know, usually— and this is not always the case— but usually the, the, the young professional rider is seen as the bit of a Yeah, send the problem horses to those ones because I don't want to do it. You know, so we'll send it off to the young guy or young girl who's brave, who needs to do these things because, you know, they're trying to make a living. And let's face it, who wants to ride a young 4-year-old that's bouncing off the walls and cavorting around? So let's get them on there. And then, of course, the timeframe. It's set by majority of the businesses not long enough. So then the person has to try to achieve some results and commercially make it viable and satisfy an owner. So, you know, when you think about it that way, the whole recipe is set for disaster.

Yeah.

Whereas horsemanship always involves time, and time's often something that you don't have. I guess that's where the hero status can sometimes be inflated because the person gets on, does some pretty big corrections or prances the horse around big and bold and looking amazing.

Yeah.

Teaching it nothing because they're just flying around the arena in this big sort of natural gaits, this big Or something like that. And then, um, yeah, everyone's like, wow, wow, wow, look at that, how, how amazing. But then if you ask them to adjust the horse, which is what dressage is— it's a sport of adjustability and adjustment, um, and, and relaxation and understanding of fundamental principles— that's where the horsemanship kicks in. And that's where there's a lot more mistake-making, a lot more subtle mistake-making. And that's where hero statuses can often be deflated.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, but that's, that's sort of what this— that's what it is. So yeah, the, the, um, I was gonna say being a hit, like being the hero rider really, because you look at Grand Prix, like this is probably the best example. When you go to a dressage competition, The only riders that are generally walking around, uh, humble and a bit sort of like, I'm not going to get too ahead of myself here, are the Grand Prix riders, because every single one of them is only a split second away from a mistake in a competition.

Yeah.

So it could go really, really bad— really, really well, the Grand Prix, or really, really bad. So they're never ever too far ahead of themselves. They're always walking around a little bit humble. and a little bit like, just see how we go today. Because, you know, no one's— no one is mastering the Grand Prix for every single element, right? If they were, they'd be getting 100. So, um, you know, everyone's trying to find the best version of that horse, and everybody's also trying to hide a little weakness.

Yes.

So the Grand Prix riders are the most humble, and there's probably the least amount of ego in the Grand Prix riders because they know All the challenges that have been— they've been through, and they've had all the knocks, and they've made all the mistakes, and they know exactly how close they are to a mistake at any time.

Just a quick message from us. If any of the ideas discussed today resonate with you and you'd love to dive deeper, head over to performanceriders.com. There's a bunch of free content for you And there's loads of opportunities as well to work with us by enrolling in one of our training or mentoring programs. performanceriders.com. What about the idea of asking for help or seeking mentorship? Um, you know, I, I feel like I see this a little bit where we have a rider and a coach, and to be honest, a little bit the coach might be wanting to be the hero in this situation. And perhaps the rider is held back a little bit because they don't give themselves the opportunity, or they don't feel free to seek extra layers of help and support and mentorship and off-the-horse learning that they actually need to become the best riders that they can be for their horses.

Yeah.

What do you think about that?

That's a good point. I mean, mentorship is something I think that I just wished that I had had a, um, a, a really good dressage mentor. I mean, I had a lot of people influence my riding career and super thankful for that, but it would have been great to have had a mentor. And I think mentoring is something that we don't do enough.

Yeah.

Um, it's not necessarily the coaching, it's the mentoring, all the, all the other bits, you know, all the other bits around the sport and All those things, just that, just that wise head. Oftentimes it could be a family member for some people, um, or a, or a coach who probably isn't that commercial, so they've only got 2 or 3 clients and they really look after them. Um, but you're right, like, I think, um, then on the other hand is sometimes the coaches can be a little bit like, hmm, if that rider gets some information from someone else.

Yeah.

That'll water down my status of—

100%.

Which is not really the case, to be totally honest. You know, I think in that instance, the coaches need to let that rider have their own learning journeys because, and I've seen this a bit actually where If that rider is with the coach and all of a sudden they get a bit of info from somewhere else, and then that coach has a problem with that, and then there's a, there's a breakup of their relationship, that's always a bit sad. Because, um, rather than saying, you know what, that's really good, let's, let's keep building on this, and that worked, and it doesn't really make them a lesser coach. Like, it just—

Yeah.

Probably shows more that they are learning and evolving and being involved in the rider and involved in the mentorship of the rider. Um, because at the end of the day, you know, it's a little bit like that whole ego thing. Like, ego teaches you nothing. Like, you learn nothing when you've got an ego. As a matter of fact, it's a barrier to learning.

Yeah.

And, um, if the ego gets in the way and the hero status, you know, gets in the way, I think you really— we really do ourselves a disservice because you don't learn, you don't, you don't grow.

Yeah. And I mean, I, I think that we see the sort of the flip side of what can go wrong, um, if you've got the wrong sort of relationship with your coach and the coach wants to be the hero. Because the flip side we see in our programs Where we have often— we actually just did a post about this the other day— we have lots of situations where we have the coach and the student, or students plural, in the same program. And that's when things are like set on fire. And I really admire those coaches because I think you've put your ego aside here. And not only have you opted in to learn and be the best that you can be, but you've said to your students, Come and join me. Like, let's, let's do this together. Let's learn more and get some different ideas and seek mentorship together. And then it's like, it's awesome what they achieve when that happens. So that's the flip side.

Yeah, yeah. No, it, it is very interesting. And this is the thing, look, a wise man once said to me, like, if horses could talk Most people wouldn't have a job. And it's pretty right. Like, at the end of the day, like, the horses can't talk, so therefore there's so many interpretations around, oh no, you should do it this way and you should do it that way and blah blah blah. And, and, um, but in fact they can talk. It's just how we interpret what they're saying. That's the, that's the hardest part. That's the horsemanship side. And, um, And yeah, being open to that. And I guess what you said at the start with, you know, what, what do I think makes a great horse person? It's that humbleness. Like, if, you know, if you go back to the people I described there as being the best horse people I've ever met, they're certainly not, um, trying to be a hero in a coaching situation or trying to be a hero out there. Riding very much in the moment, very much with empathy, and very much with some structure, acknowledging the small things, you know, acknowledging the small wins, and, and, you know, doing it in a way where they're patient and caring.

Finally, on this topic of don't be a hero, be a horse person, I'd love your thoughts on, um, on something. You alluded to this a little bit when you were talking about the stallion shows. So I know sometimes we have a situation when a rider is perhaps inadvertently thrust into this hero status because at the lower levels or the mid-levels, they're killing it. They're winning everything. They're getting all the ribbons and the rugs, and they're the big hero. And it's like, wow, what are they going to achieve? And then we've all seen it, like they kind of disappear. And sometimes they don't end up at the top levels or they have significant problems at the top levels. And there's a pretty good reason for that you've— you talk about sometimes. So can you let us know your thoughts about that, that, that success at the lower or mid levels can sometimes kind of shoot us in the foot?

Yeah, yeah. No, there's, there's definitely evidence to show that, um, success at an early age when, you know, and, and this could go even for people who have won gold medals, um, in the past at a younger age, um, they've won gold medal. This can apply for any sport, um, won gold medals, and it's almost like The success becomes— it almost haunts them because you've, you've had success, or you've won a medal, or you've been the top of the world, or whatever it might be, but you haven't had the foundation to actually know how you got there. So you've arrived there, then you've come away from that performance with everybody sort of saying, you know, you're amazing and this and that, but really the reality is there's some really fundamental things that you're still yet to learn. And it's very hard to ask very, very simple questions or confront very, very simple problems and really basic problems when you're coming from such a high status. Um, and of course, then when the tool belt isn't full, the frustration kicks in, and, and it can often torture torture people a little bit to have that much success without the skills to keep growing. But then of course, on the other hand, are the people who do keep growing, and they're the ones that probably, um, have got probably that mindset of curiosity. They've, they've probably had the success, they've hit— they've then hit rock bottom, and they've recreated themselves. They've got the same drive, the same ability And this is, this is the difference between a rider with, or an athlete with ability versus an athlete with work ethic or an athlete with work ethic and intelligence. The ability will get you so far, but the work ethic and intelligence must be there to be the— that's what you've got to have. So that intelligence to break down your problems, seek better information, Seek out all those little things that infill, infill you, because, um, the hero status, the big accolades, they can just, they can just block, block that process from happening.

Yeah.

And I often say, I often say that to people, like, it's, you know, I watch a lot of young riders come through or someone getting some success It's like, okay, that's great, but let's just watch now how this success continues to the next horse and the next horse and the next horse. Because it really is— the hardest thing is to win. It's even harder to— or the hardest thing is to be successful. It's even harder to stay successful because in the whole spectrum of this, every single bit of your ability will be challenged.

Yeah.

And that includes your intelligence to, to, to, to work it out.

And it's the same story, isn't it, for people who are having, um, having success just at a lower level on a horse, and they're really riding for that lower level, that, you know, they're going to be like the world champion lower level rider. And riding training, like you teach us in your program, that training in a way That you're prioritizing winning at a lower level can actually be counterproductive and will harm you down the line. So, I mean, it— that just speaks exactly to this Parberyism of don't be a hero, be a horse person, of having that knowledge of what's to come ahead of you and that there are more important things than getting a really big trot in a low level to get an 8. You know, that's all fun and games on the day, but it might harm you down the line.

Yeah, yeah. All that pressure, all that pressure that creates the big paces, if it's not, um, you know, if it's being forced out of the horse, that will always hurt you. And if, and if you're doing that because you want to have this great win in a low-level class that means nothing, that no one will remember, including yourself, you know, from that— after that day onwards, there's absolutely no point. Um, if— I mean, there's always circumstances that, that make it, you know, acceptable on the day. Like, you, you might think, oh, I might try something here.

Right.

But yeah, at the end of the day, it's the biggest, most intelligent thing I think about dressage. And this is why it's such a great sport, because it's, it's, it really is a thinking sport, is Firstly, the structures and the levels, the levels to go from one to the next to the next to the next. I don't think there's really any other sport out there that has this really structured growth and development right through to Grand Prix, and that requires so many elements. Then, of course, is Um, the understanding of the horse, the intelligence to understand the horse and really understand what the horse is going to be strong at and what they'll be weak at. And then resisting the temptations to try and, like you said, be that hero at the lower levels and keep mindful on, yes, I can get this and I can pressure to get this for this, for this level, but is it really serving me well goal for the future, for what I know is going to be— I need way more adjustability, not just this one big pressured pace.

Yeah.

Um, and yeah, that's how, that's how I think that's probably the one of the best examples of hero versus horse person, how that plays out in dressage.

Yeah, love this conversation. Thanks so much, Brett.

Thank you, Nat. It was a good one.