E43: Who is Juveria Zaheer?

Famously hosted for 36 years by Alex Trebek, this long running TV quiz show features contestants who respond to clues with a question. What is Jeopardy?

This is Unlimited. Now entering the studio is today's guest, a mental health scientist from Whitby, Ontario and Jeopardy. Tournament of Cambia. Contestant Juveria is the here and now the host of Unlimited Me, Brian Gensler. Let's go.

Foreign.

Welcome everyone to the Unlimited podcast. This is I think a little bit of a different one and a little bit of a fun one. After I give the intro, some folks will want to stay on and listen to every second and maybe some folks will drop off. I, I don't know, it depends what you like. But I'll tell you a story. You know, when I was a kid, almost every night me and the family, me and my parents would watch Jeopardy. On TV at 7:30.

The beloved host of Jeopardy. For 36 years, known for his calm demeanor and sharp wit.

Who is Alex Trebek? It was us. And my dad would be firing out answers to many, many questions. I couldn't believe how the guy knew so much. And once in a while when I got an answer, I was ecstatic, like I had won the lottery. And Fast forward now 30 plus years and me and my family watch Jeopardy. Every, almost every night. And luckily, I don't know, I seem to know a few more answers than I did when I was young. And when my kids get an answer, they are ecstatic, dancing around the room. But I'll tell you, most of the time I watch the contestants and I see the questions that are asked and I end up screaming at the TV, who knows this stuff? Like these questions are ridiculous. And I know somebody who actually does know this stuff who's a, a friend of mine, a former podcast guest and our guest Juveria Zaheer who is here to tell us all about her Jeopardy. Experience. So Juveria, thank you so much for joining and looking forward to asking you a whole bunch of questions about Jeopardy.

Thank you so much Brian for your kind words and it's so nice to be here. I think for so many people, especially Canadians with all this Trebek, Jeopardy. Is something that we grew up with and then, you know, our kids join us in many years later, it's a real institution. So it was such a great gift to be out there. I still can't believe it happened.

Yeah, amazing. As I said, you've been on the podcast before as part of your sort of, let's call it the day job or real job. Let me give a quick intro to you for our listeners and then I'll ask you a whole bunch of questions. So. Jabiria is an associate professor of psychiatry at the University of Toronto's Temerty Faculty of Medicine and a clinician scientist,

Canada's largest mental health teaching hospital, known for its research and care in addiction and mental health.

What is Toronto center for Addiction and Mental Health? That's known as CAMH. As the medical head of CAMH's emergency department, she provides urgent psychiatric care to people in crisis. Javeri is also a noted researcher and a leading expert in best practices around suicide risk assessment and prevention. Of course, that's her formal day to day and you already got the sense from the first few intro words that I've said. But recently, Javeria gained international recognition for her leading expertise in a different area, which was trivia. While her first appearance on jeopardy in May 2023 resulted in a loss, she performed well enough to be be invited to compete in a Jeopardy Second chance tournament later that year. She won that tournament, went on to play in a Champions wild card tournament where she also came out on top. And then finally she competed in Jeopardy's Tournament of Champions earlier this year. And along the way she captured Canada's heart, became a national treasure, was interviewed by everyone, the mayors were, you know, meeting with her and it was amazing. So once again, thanks for being here. I've given a little bit of background and the Jeopardy is the fun stuff we're going to talk about, but actually the most critical and important stuff is frankly what you do day to day, which is unbelievable work, unbelievably necessary work. And you're amazing. Can you just give the listeners a little bit of background on yourself? I guess the, the day to day to start.

Yeah, no, I am, I am very lucky. I have my absolute dream job. So I went to medical school at Queen's University and then I did my residency and research training and psychiatric training here at the University of Toronto. One of the reasons I love emergency psychiatry is because you can often see people on the worst days of their lives when they're the most deserving of hope and help and care. And to be able to provide empathy and comfort and connection to services in those moments is so important to me. And I run the, I'm the medical head of the CAMH emergency department with my colleague Mark Green who is the nurse manager. And we are really dedicated to providing really high quality, dignified, supportive care to people in crisis. I also do quite a lot of suicide prevention research trying to understand people's stories because suicide is a tragic end to somebody's story and having suicidal thoughts in and of itself is a really important focus for care and hope and support. And so trying to understand the needs of different communities, different ethnic groups, different age groups is another really important part of my work.

Amazing, critical, critical work. As I think listeners know, I'm a volunteer with CAMH foundation board and CAMH is raising funds and going to build or in the process of building literally world's leading mental health research facility and care facilities in Toronto. It's going to be fantastic for those that need this, this care.

So.

So if that's what you do day to day. And then next thing I know, I'm sitting at home and I see the announcer of Jeopardy. Say, you know, and from Whitby, Ontario, Juveria's a here and I almost fell off my chair. So how did you get from what you're doing day to day to on my television screen? How. What was the journey to get onto Jeopardy? How's that work even?

Yeah. So when I was a little girl, just like you, I used to watch with my family, my aunts, my grandparents, my dad. I was pretty good at it when I was little. You know, I really loved and still to this day I love stories. And so I don't really remember facts super well, but I remember stories super well. And all of history is just different kinds of stories. You know, there's not a lot of difference between

this English king is famous for having six wives and establishing the church of England, who is Henry VIII

and the Real Housewives in some sense. So when I was young, I used to watch all the time and I met my husband when I was 17 and he was a guy who also loved knowledge and facts and trivia and he was an engineer and I was preparing to go to medical school, but we both loved American history and culture and we both took an American history class. I ended up switching to American studies degree and we did pop trivia when we were young. But then as you know, you kind of grow up, you have kids, you have a busy job, you commute and. And we hadn't watched Jeopardy. In a really long time. And so what ended up happening is my brother,

known as the vicious vet. This Survivor 42 contestant impressed fans with his strategic gameplay and sharp wit. Who is Omer?

My much younger brother was on the TV show Survivor and when you watch Survivor, Jeopardy Comes on right before and the Jeopardy ad is for the anytime test and my husband had actually taken that test in 2008, right before we got married. And I said, hey, Mike, you should do this again because you're really good at this and you can win us some money. He said, well, you do it too. So I did. And I didn't think anything of it. It was sort of like, it was cool. It was like you kind of get up off the couch and you do your best and you never know what can happen. And, you know, I'm not a typical, you know, quizzing person. Like, I never did quiz bowl in university. I don't do, didn't do at the time, any kind of online quizzing or competitive quizzing. I was like literally a suburban mom of two kids with a pretty busy job. And when I got called to go on the show. So you end up doing. You do the test. If you pass the test, you are randomly selected for another test, which is like a proctor test on Zoom. And then if you do okay on that, you're selected for sort of a gameplay audition where you kind of click your pen along with the game. And it's really, really fun because what's more fun than playing Jeopardy? And so you did that. And then I was called very quickly thereafter. So I think my first audition was in November and I was called to be on the show in January and then I taped in February. So it was a real whirlwind. And I think at the time I was so scared, I think, of looking dumb, of like being an imposter, of having my colleagues and friends think I wasn't smart. And I think I worried so much on, like, learning material that I didn't focus on, you know, what are my values? Like, what, how do you have fun up here? What do I want to get out of this experience? And I'll tell you, like, when you're up there on stage, it moves very fast. And I was the first game of the day. They take five games. And I was playing a super champion, Hannah Wilson. And I was her fourth game. And the first half of the game, I thought, oh, like I could hear my heart beating in my ears. I was so afraid. And then in the second half, I felt more like myself. And you feel really free up there. You feel like you're flying. There's no feeling like it in the world. And didn't win, but did well enough to get the invitation to come back. And, you know, I didn't know if I was going to come back or not, but I thought if I was going to come back, I was going to do whatever I could to really take advantage of that opportunity. So I have a busy job, I have kids, but I have a couple of hours in the evening to sort of read and learn and try to get better. And that's what I did. And then I thought when I came back in November, in December, excuse me. I think I was a very different player, a very different person and really, really enjoyed the experience of the three tournaments ended up playing in.

Yeah, I've done that. And we call it the anytime test.

Everyone should do it. You literally never know what can happen.

I can tell you I know exactly what's going to happen with me, which is nothing because I did not answer a lot of those questions correctly. And so I'm sure I'm not waiting breathlessly for the phone to ring. I can tell you that that was a hard test too. I want to talk about prep in a second, but so you talked about being up there and you know, your heart's beating and it's moving fast. What, what is actually happening? Literally, you know, while you're there taping Go. Just before the camera starts rolling. I'm always amazed that Alex Trebek and

this Jeopardy. Legend known for his 74 game winning streak is now host of the show,

who is Ken Jennings. Now, they never seem to make a single mistake reading a question. I gotta believe at some point they trip up and they like stop and rerecord. But I don't know, like, how does that work literally, like, logistically, just to give folks a sense of what it's like to be on a TV show.

Yeah. I will say the Jeopardy. Team is the best team in the business. You know, they always have each other's backs. It's a very high paced, fast environment, an intense environment and everybody knows their job and everybody does it. Like each person on that team is incredibly important. So whether it's the camera folks, whether it's hair and makeup, whether it's the executive producer, the casting team, the director, the producers, it reminds me very much of our Emerge team, actually, where everyone works together in a pretty chaotic environment to do something really special. And so when you're called to go, they're very efficient. So they tape five or six episodes in one day. Everybody gets a chance to do a buzzer practice with about 15 clues because it is. The buzzer is very tricky and very finicky. She's a cruel mistress. So you have to get that practice in, I think. And then you never know when you're going to get called. So every game they say, you know, it'll be Hannah, Sammy, And Javeria. So then you get up and you get mic'd up and you get out there and you play. And Jeopardy's taped very much to real time, so it doesn't take that long to tape. But there are a couple things that can happen that the viewers don't see at home. So one is, you know, I've never, never met Alex Trebek, someone that we all feel so strongly about, especially in Canada. And even the team there, they talk about him all the time, and they have so much fondness and love for him and his whole family. But Ken, I've seen host, and he's incredible. You know, like, you have to know everything. You have to keep track of everything. But even the most incredible hosts in the whole wide world may trip over their words or say something. You know, switch a word here or two. So they'll do something called pickups, where they will retape those, like small moments. But he's a pro, and that happens rarely. And then the other thing that you don't see at home is sometimes there's a thing called a stop down. So one of the things that's really important, Jeopardy is a game show, so it's subject to game show law. And so there's a compliance team that's independent, that is there, and there's a judging panel. So if someone mispronounces a word or says an answer that might be not what the judges were expecting, but may be right, they stop you down and they make you turn around. The compliance gentleman comes out and they sort of deliberate. And that can go on for like a minute or two. It can even go on for much longer than that. So it's a very kind of interesting experience to be turned around not facing the stage.

Why do they make you turn around if they've stopped it anyways?

And so you can't see the board or you can't kind of get any ideas. So it's just sort of to make things as fair as possible.

Oh, I see.

Okay, that's a little bit stressful. But those are the kinds of things that you don't see at home. But I know that Michael Davies, the executive producer, on one podcast, he. They talked about doing Jeopardy. Live and letting people see all of those kinds of little micro moments. But it is very cool to sort of see how the sausage gets made. And. But it's. I would say the editing is pretty light. Like they. They kind of tape and go right.

And you said five episodes a day, so are they consecutive? So if you win you could be on literally five times in one day for sure.

And then that'll be like a week of episodes. So they'll change your outfit in between and, and touch you up and then off you go. You know, it's interesting for me, I never had that experience of winning multiple games in a row. So although I was very blessed to get to play a lot of Jeopardy, I didn't win in the regular season. And so, you know, I was one and done. But that day, Hannah Wilson, who was a champion, she played five days in a row in tournament play. It's a little bit different. So, you know, you'll have your quarterfinals and your semifinals and then a two game final in general. So you don't necessarily play back to back to back, but you get to, you know, it's a real gift to get to watch other people play because it's so much fun. And it's fun to watch people play with the other contestants in tournament play. Eventually become friends, you know each other. And so it's fun to kind of sit back there and like to play along as well.

Okay, cool. So you talked before about preparation. What I always wondered is, first of all, how do they give you any guidance? How do you prep? They're not asking you or the other contestants what are some of your best or favorite subjects so that they can mix and match, Are they? Or like, I never could figure out how that works.

That's a great question. And I think the one question that I've gotten the most question I get asked the most is like, is Ken Jennings nice? And does Ken Jennings like you? And that's my. Those are, that's far, like, very curious about Ken Jennings because he's great and like, of course you are. But the question I get asked the most is like, do they give you a manual or like, topics ahead of time? And the answer is absolutely not. Because that would contravene like game show law. And there's even randomization within the five games so they will randomly select a board. And so, you know, for someone like me, I remember before I went on the first time, I thought, oh, I even made a joke to my husband. I hope they don't ask me about things like fish. And then I got up there and one of my first categories was fish. So you never know.

Maybe they're listening to you on your phone like Instagram and all these other apps are doing to me.

And then later, like in my, in my. I ended up playing nine games total. Like, there were times where I would have categories on Canadian stuff. But there would be times where I'd have categories on a lot of American things or things that I have no expertise in. So it is completely random. They don't ask you what you like or what you don't. And I think they try to have. The writers at Jeopardy. Are the best in the business. They're very, very skilled. And I think what they do is try to have a mix of things like literature, pop culture, history, music, wordplay. And so every board has a rhythm. Like, there will be a mix of categories. But my friend Luigi de Guzman, who was at the tournament, he said, the best board you've ever seen is the one that you don't play. So I think it's true. Sometimes you'll be watching at home. You're like, that's my dream board. Or you'll be in studio watching. You'll say, I wish I had that one. But it's completely random.

Wow.

You said in the evenings or whenever you'd prep. How do you prep when you have the entire universe of facts to try to learn and remember?

That's a great question. And, you know, there are things in this world that I love and I love to learn about. Like, I love history. I love American history. I love world history. I really love, like, opera, classical music. I really love poetry. Like, stuff like that. Like, kind of feels easy and you're excited to learn it. And obviously, things like science, medicine come fairly.

Yeah, easily in those categories, that's for sure.

Things that, like, I think part of prep is, like, trying to understand what you're not great at and what you don't like and then really honing in on those areas. I think the key to being good at Jeopardy, like, you have to be smart to be on Jeopardy. You don't have to be anything. I think you just have to be curious. And so it's easy to study for things that you're interested in, and it's hard to study to read about things even that you're not interested in. So I think the people. Well, are the kind of people who can be interested in. In most things. And I think that was, like, me, like, whether it was, you know, music or, like, automakers or, you know, math. Most things I could kind of get my head around and invest in reading in it. And my goal was to sort of be competent enough in every topic that I wouldn't have any huge blind spots, if any sense.

Right. Yeah. Perfect. And then, you know, obviously, you're an expert on mental health and on the brain. So any Insight or tips as to how people. And you talked about this maybe before you talked about how I think your brain works with stories as opposed to facts. Maybe. But any tips for folks to help them? This is a Jeopardy thing, but maybe there's lessons for life here. How does one hone their memory and recall skills is maybe the way I'm trying to ask the question here.

Yeah, that's a great question. I think. So first of all, I think in terms of staying calm out there, I thought that I would be fine because I've done a lot of TV and podcasts and stuff for work and I work in a very high stress environment, but I hadn't realized how stressful it would actually be standing on that stage with nothing between you and the host and the question. So I think things like visualization, mindfulness are important. I also think sort of thinking about your values and your goals, you can't control the outcome, but you can control the process. So taking things one question at a time, one category at a time can be very helpful in terms of memory and recall. So I think, you know, Victoria Gross is an excellent Jeopardy. Player and she's probably the best quizzer, I think not probably she's the best quizzer in the world. And I've talked a lot about like, her views on memory and learning and she's brilliant. And she talks about

this psychologist's work on how we forget and learn over time, which led to the idea of spaced repetition, a method used to improve memory.

What is Ebbinghaus's theory of forgetting and learning curves and spaced repetition. So you can learn something, but you can also forget it. So I think like learning, but then also refreshing your memory and extending out that time period so you can kind of like really consolidate information can be helpful. There's another, a recent Jeopardy. Champion who's a PhD, I think in psychology who talked about autobiographical memory versus kind of

this type of memory helps us remember how to do things like riding a bike and also stores facts and general knowledge.

What is procedural semantic memory? So it's the idea that if you can pin something like, you know, when I, my family and I went to a conference in Denmark, we went to Tivoli Gardens, which is an amusement park there, one of the oldest in the world. So I'll never forget Tivoli Gardens because it has a, a link to me. But if I'm trying to learn, I don't do very well learning lists of things without any context. I need that context. But I think the last thing I'll say about learning is that I think it's really important to remember that no two people learn the same way. So even at the Tournament of Champions, you had people who were fundamentally anti flashcards, who hated flashcards and could never learn that way. Even my husband. I like flashcards because I find them to be efficient. And I don't have necessarily time at this stage of my life to live a full and meaningful life and to go to art galleries and to read long books. So for me, it's an efficiency issue. But, you know, my husband would rather read the Bible and learn that way than do a set of Bible flashcards. So I think just sort of being honest and open with yourself about how you love to learn, because how you love to learn is the best way to learn. So people love podcasts. Other people like to do old questions. Other people like to read time resource material or watch movies. Some people like to read the Wikipedia page of movies. So just sort of figuring out what is the most meaningful for you. And never, ever prepare for anything if it's not fun. Like, this is not. I think that's a really important pointer. In jeopardy, it's not your job. It's not your livelihood.

It's.

It's. You want to do it in so much as it's fun to learn. And it's. It's cool because you can't control the outcome. You could be the most prepared player and you could lose. And I think sometimes it's hard if you feel really prepared and you don't get the outcome you want. So to sort of keep your sense of humor about it, I think is important.

Yeah. And I guess there's another element to it, which is you described it a little bit before you did a buzzer sort of run through. So there's a. I don't know if it's a strategy around the buzzer, strategy around betting, you know, for daily doubles. And, you know, in your case, it was pretty rare for you to go into Final Jeopardy without being so much in the lead that it didn't matter. Again, that was amazing. But once in a while, you had to deal with the fact that you could lose in Double Jeopardy in Final Jeopardy rather than. And so how do all those other elements work, the buzzer and the padding, and in particular with the buzzer. I just curious, can you buzz in the second the question pops up or you have to wait for the question to be read? How does that work?

Yeah, I think that's a really, really good question. So the buzzer is really tricky because what happens is that the host reads the question. Another person, actually, when the host is done reading the question, activates the buzzer. When the buzz will activated, on either side of the screen, you'll see two banks of red lights. Seeing the lights means you can ring in. If you ring in even a millisecond too early, you're locked out for a quarter second. A quarter second doesn't seem like that long, but in Jeopardy time, it's an eternity. And that's why you see sometimes when you watch the show, people banging, banging, banging on the buzzer because they've been locked out. And so they're trying to keep. So they're trying to keep ringing in. So I see. Soon as they're reactivated or they're. They're not blocked, they can answer questions, right?

Why, why do you think they do that? What's the difference? Like I said, why, why do you think they do that? That you have to read the question? What's the difference? If someone wants to buzz in right away without even hearing the question, maybe they get it wrong. Is it just because everyone would just be buzzing every time for the most part, or.

Oh, that's how Quiz bowl tends to work. Like University Quiz bowl. You just kind of ring in when the person's reading the question. I think that in the first season of Jeopardy. People could bring in whenever they wanted and then Alex would stop reading the question and then they could answer. It just makes for pretty terrible tv. So if you, if you're watching from home and someone rings in. So I said, you know, I'm looking behind you, so you know this band from.

In a picture on the wall behind Brian's desk, his favorite band, the Beatles, hails from this English town. Where is Liverpool?

Someone rings in, they answer, but then the people at home don't get to hear the whole question. I think you end up like people will try to ring in immediately on everything, so people are going to be guessing a lot more. So I think it just doesn't work logistically. So I think waiting till the question is read evens the playing field a little bit and it makes for a better TV watching experience for sure.

Okay, got it. And then what about on the betting side? How do you think through that? And I always, if I ever went on Jeopardy, I'd be most nervous right when the category pops up. First of all, I wouldn't even make it to Final Jeopardy. But if I did, the category pops up. And now you got to, you know, I'm in the finance and wealth world. Here I'm doing math all the time, but when that topic pops up and then you have to start figuring out the math of like how much you're going to bet relative to what other folks have and what's the, you know, that would be freaking me out too. So how do you do the betting

strategy throughout for daily doubles? So those are the clues that pop up within the game that are kind of just your clue. Yeah, I found that betting strategy to be pretty straightforward. So I'm very, very aggressive. I think my view was that, like, look, this is the only chance I'm ever going to do this, so I might as well, you know, have the time of my life. And I also think just sort of thinking sort of around like

this math rule helps us better predict the chance of something happening by using new information.

What is Bayes theorem of like pre test and post test probability? Like if you can get a daily double and if you're a pretty good Jeopardy player, your daily double get rate is really high and you can increase your win probability really significantly in that moment. And so I tend to be someone who bets very big on my daily doubles. There are times that you won't though. So say if you know, if you have $25,000, the people you're playing have three and $4,000 each. If you bet $25,000, you're actually going to potentially reduce your win potential because there's already 5% chance you're going to win the game. But you don't want to put yourself in a position where you're going to lose. So you know, you bet less depending on if there's like less money on the board if you have a big lead. So trying to kind of balance those factors. Final Jeopardy is a lot of.

This study of strategic decision making helps explain how people and groups choose their actions in competitive situations.

What is game theory, which I didn't know the first time I went. The first time I went, I was in second place and I just wagered everything because I wanted to get as much like I wanted to have the highest chance of winning as possible. But I think if you're, you want to sort of think about what other people are going to do. So the best case scenario in Final Jeopardy is that you have more than double the next person. So if you had 10,000 and I had 30,000, no matter what you did, unless I made like a silly error, I'm going to win. And then say if I have 25 or 20, say if I have 19,000 and you have 10,000. So I know, well, Brian's going to wager 10,000 because it's the only way to get up ahead of me. So I'll wager $1,001. So that way I would end up with the most money if I get it wrong. And if I get it right, I would beat you by a dollar. So that's kind of the strategy there. Where it gets a bit tricky is say, say someone has 20,000 and the next person has 18,000. So if you're in the 20,000, you might want to bet in case not Mr. 18,000 doubles up. But if you're 18,000, you may say, well, maybe I should just bet zero, because the only way I'm going to win is if the guy in first gets it wrong anyway. So I have my biggest chance of winning there. So thinking about what your opponents are going to do, thinking about what you want to do. And I think the big thing around Final Jeopardy betting is this is something Mateo. They're an extraordinary Jeopardy. Player. They're probably the best Canada's ever seen. And what they said was, you have to do what is going to make you have less regrets or fewer regrets. So for me, I always want to bet on myself. I would much rather lose because I got something wrong rather than lose because I went cautious or try to be kind of tricky and then the other person got it right. So for me, I much prefer to bet on myself whenever I can.

Well, it worked. Getting close to the end of my long list of questions here, but out of all the time that you were there and actually maybe even just part of the whole experience, Most memorable moment. Something, a question, a clue, something funny happened or just anything in the whole experience. Most memorable thing that you can put your finger on.

Yeah, you know, it's funny. I was there often enough that I saw Ken Jennings answer a lot of audience questions, and people often ask him that question, like, what's your most memorable moment? And one thing he said that I loved is like, there's nothing like winning your first game. There is nothing like it in the whole wide world. And I think for me, especially having lost my first game and then being back up there, usually when you play your second game, you've at least won one. But it wasn't my case. And so I think that first game that I won there was an opera category. I love opera. And I was able to. I had a really big daily double. It was something like it was over $15,000. And it was a bit of an unusual move to bet Everything, especially in opera, especially that much money in a really close game. And my daughters were watching me, and my daughters got to see me, like, mom, like, be fearless and be brave and take chances. And I remember looking over and seeing my family there, and my husband nodded like, yeah, you know what you have to do. And then the geography. The final Jeopardy. Category was geography in that game, which is, like, not necessarily a huge strength of mine. But the. The other two gentlemen doubled up and got it right. And then I also did, and we all finished with scores over 35,000, which is pretty unheard of. I think it's the only time that's ever happened in. In Jeopardy history. But I will never forget that game in my life. And I remember leaving the stage and they. They're trying to, like, get you into the room, but I found my daughters and they ran and they gave me a hug, and. And that's a moment I won't ever, ever forget.

Amazing.

Well, it's. It's funny, you know, as I. You did a lot of other interviews and stuff before, and a quote that I saw of yours that I loved, and I was going to mention this at the end, but you sort of jumped to it is you said, I wanted to show my daughters that you can be brave and take chances, that you can fail in front of millions of people, and it's okay. You can be yourself, and that's enough. And I thought, that's just fantastic. So how has your experience there, actually, how have your daughters, your family reacted to that? Have you seen any change in their behavior, seeing what mom has done? You know, maybe it's actually a little bit of a question around mental health, too, because in this world, you know, there's lots of books out. And gentleman, Jonathan Haight has written a book called the Anxious Generation. I don't know if you've seen or read that, but we're very careful about not having our children fail and expose them to risk and not to mention the cell phones and all that stuff. So this was, you know, you exposed your children to something amazing and you've seen as a result.

Yeah, I think a few things. So, one, I think that one of the things we talk a lot about in our family, you know, sometimes I think we can. There can be like, a real kind of cult of parenthood. It's like parents, especially mothers, are supposed to sacrifice for their children and do everything they can to protect their children and have their children have every opportunity to succeed. In our family, we always talked about being on the same team and so we're all teammates and we will all take care of each other. We all have a responsibility to each other to care for each other. And responsibilities are going to be different for a six year old than for a dad or a mom. But we're all there to take care of each other. And I think it was really cool for my girls to see that Even when they're 40, 41, they're allowed to do something that is just for them, that it doesn't make you a worse mom, it makes you a better mom. It doesn't mean that you are like ignoring your kids or doing this other thing. I think it was really great for all of us to see and I always get so nervous. It's like they don't want to see mom doing flashcards. They don't want mom to be preoccupied. But they loved it and it was really good for me to see that, that we want them to know that they can do things for themselves in their life. And I think the other thing that was really important is that, yeah, like I think especially when you're a kid, like there's always this huge fear of failure, right. And my girls got to see mom fly and have the time of her life and they also got to see me woo woos. They're going to lose in their lives. They're going to lose soccer games, they're going to have a tough piano recital, going to have heartbreak. They're going to like not, you know, win an award or a scholarship and to be able to see that it's both and like life is extraordinary and meaningful and it can be hard sometimes and both feelings can coexist, I think has been really empowering for them for sure.

Absolutely spectacular. So last question for you. You know, this has been very focused on your experience on Jeopardy. I hope if people have been listening very, very closely, what they actually hear is all your sort of insights and life lessons, things that you can take away, but maybe just to explicitly cover that, I, I love having folks on who are sort of top in their field. You happen to be top in two fields on the mental health side. And now as a Jeopardy contestant, any last comments or words on what insights or takeaways folks can learn from your experience that they can use in their everyday life?

Yeah, I think that, you know, the world is like a really busy place sometimes and you can be in a position where nothing seems possible, where it's like, well, I can't do this because I'm so busy or I can't try this because it's too much or I can't try this because it, you know, I don't have the time and my kids might be upset. And so I think what this experience taught me is that you can try and you can find things even in midlife or later life that you have excitement and passion for. And I think too, another lesson that I've learned from this experience is, yeah, like, I was very lucky. I got to be in a really cool TV show, I won some money. But, like, ultimately I learned about myself and I made a lot of really good friends and I use my brain in ways that I never, ever thought I would. And I think sometimes it's scary to like, get off the couch and try anything. But anything worth trying is worth failing at. And anything worth failing at is something that's going to bring you meaning regardless of if you fail or succeed. So get off the couch for whatever it is you want to do.

I love it. Fantastic. Amazing. Well, first of all, thank you very much for being here. Thanks for making the country have someone to cheer for along with Mattea and a bunch of others for sure. And I know who I'm going to call if I ever have any questions on a whole variety of random things because I don't know the answers and you do. Thank you so much, Javeri. I appreciate your time and I know we've taken you away from the critically important work you do at CAMH for half an hour or so here. So thanks again. Really appreciate it.

Thank you so much for having me on. It was such a pleasure.

Okay, talk to you soon.

Thank you.

So, one final Jeopardy. Question to ask here before we sign off. I'll ask the question first and then give the answer, which is not the way it usually goes, but here we go. What is No1Left Behind Campaign? And the answer is. CAMH's No1Left Behind Campaign is the world's largest fundraising campaign to support hospital based mental health research and the final phase of CAMH's historic redevelopment. With a goal to raise 500 million, the campaign supports life saving mental health research programs at CAMH and completes its 25 year vision with the new CAMH Research and Discovery Center. The Research and Discovery center will allow CAMH to fuel more change faster than ever before in priority areas like brain science, health equity, late life, mental health, precision medicine and youth mental health. It will be a place that drives breakthroughs and transforms patient care and outcomes where CAMH researchers can search for answers that don't yet exist. In short, what is this campaign aiming to achieve, really to place CAMH at the top of the world as it relates to mental health research and care. I hope you enjoyed the podcast today with Juveria. As you heard at the beginning, her day to day job is leading the emergency department and other key areas at camh. If you want to support this we would absolutely love it. Go to CAMH CA and you can donate directly or if you want to do something bigger. If you want to be part of this no One Left behind campaign in a more material way, please reach out to me directly. You can find us on our website and we'd love to get you in touch with the right folks at CAMH and their foundation. Thanks for listening. We'll see you soon.

Bye bye.

The unlimited podcast is hosted and produced by Brian Ginsler and is edited and mixed by myself, David McMillan. This podcast is not to be taken as investment advice. If you like what you heard, don't forget to rate the podcast and follow us on social medianslerwealth. Thanks for listening and see you next time.

Sam.