185: Mold Exposure & Recovery: How Desiree Took Back Her Health

Hello again, everyone, and welcome to today's show. If you're one of the 130 million people that are dealing with Sirs Lyme disease, autoimmune disease, or other conditions that are impacted by mold on a daily basis, and you need to learn how to eliminate that exposure, then you're in the right place. My name is Brian Carr, and you're listening to Mold Finders Radio Foreign.

Hey, everyone, what's going on? We are here for another episode of the pod, and today I have Desiree Salame on with me, actually a we Inspect client, and I'm really excited to have her on. I always love to chat with people that we've worked with and one just to make sure everything went okay.

Everything is good. More importantly, though, and really the purpose for I think having these types of conversations in a public forum like this is, you know, I can only talk about things so many times, I feel like. And I think it's really helpful in life if you have different points of view talking about a topic, because sometimes, like, somebody talking about something will kind of resonate with you or, like, a light bulb will go off or something will happen, whereas, like, the other person saying the exact same thing, like, they just aren't your vibe, basically. So that's. That's what we're doing. We're going to talk through kind of her story from start to, you know, finding us to going through the process to after the fact and everything that happened before and after in between, and. And I'm really excited for it. So. Hey, what's going on, Desiree?

Hi. Well, first of all, I'm just so happy to be here. I feel like this is really coming full circle because a year ago, it was listening to something like this that really kind of gave me the aha moment, and I'm like, I'm not crazy. I really think it's my house. And so it was just very validating hearing this from other people and these kind of stories. So it's just kind of serendipitous that I'm here now after using your team.

It's the. It's. Is it pay it forward or pay it. I don't know which pay it it is.

I feel like I'm like the moldy mom that's help helping my friends if they have any challenges there.

You know, it's. It's great. Do your friends look at you? Like, they. They still think it's weird.

They now get it now that they've seen me recover and our family recover and we're back to normal. But at first we were, like, not sure about it.

Yeah.

Now. Now I've gone and inspected people's houses just for fun and been like, oh, there's mold in your windows.

Yeah, no, of course. Right. Like, I was just talking about windows the other day, actually, on something I.

Wipe when it gets dusty.

No, that piece is. I'd actually, as we get into it, I'd love to hear that piece because, like, when. When people start going down this road, you obviously, like, talk to friends, you talk to others. Like, they see what you're going through. And I feel like part of. Part of this is one, like, educating yourself and trying to figure out. But then you have, like, your friends and your family and other people who are on your shoulder, in your ear, giving you their opinion. And many times, for someone in your seat starting this process, that opinion doesn't actually align with, you know, the path that you're going down. And there can be conflict there. It could be just, you know, weird vibes all the way to, like, more conflict, depending on who the person is or so it'd be interesting, like, as you kind of go through it, if. If that was anything that you experienced, too, because I think, you know, we. We as. We as people naturally, you know, everybody generally wants to be liked and approved and. And feel part of the clan and all of these things. That's normal human nature. And this is something that sometimes makes you feel isolated and judged in a. I hate to see that shape people's decisions, you know?

Yeah, it definitely can. And I feel like a lot of people didn't understand it at first. And that's why I was. I was in your Instagram watching all your reels, probably 10 times each. I got you a lot of views because I used to say these were the symptoms and this is what we found. And I'd be like, oh, my gosh. I have. And I'm like, I have the inflammation. I have no immune system. I've gained so much weight. I feel like I have anxiety, depression, brain fog. There was all these things where I'm like, is this just me getting older or, you know, because I'm not a young black anymore, I'm like, this doesn't feel right. So seeing your reels and all the information that you had was just so validating, so.

Well, that's great. I'm glad. And, you know, sometimes you just need a little. You just need to feel validated somewhere from somebody to then have the. It's not even confidence is the right word. But just to kind of have like, the fortitude to say, okay, I think. I think I can look at this a little more and not internally feel like I'm crazy. So. Yeah, so that's. You know, I feel like a lot of people deal with that, right as.

My husband's like, it's not the house. It's not the house. I'm like, I have. After we moved in, I feel like my health declined. So it took a lot of convincing him. And it was one of your radio podcasts that actually sent him. And I'm like, please listen to the whole thing, and then let's talk.

How did that go? Because I think that's something that so many people. It's the partner, the spouse, you know, generally not to throw it, but generally it's the husband. Yeah. What was that like? How did that work?

It went well, because I feel like one of our biggest challenges. He's a firefighter chief, so he's often away from the house. So he didn't feel what I was feeling and what my kids were feeling. He's got a super immune system because he's around so much, but he would feel like he had a sore throat and then he would leave the house. So he never felt anything like we felt. And it was one of your radio podcasts that I remember was talking about, if you had childhood exposure, you're even more sensitive to it. College. I know 100% sure that I lived in a moldy home because I was so sick in college. Same. So I had him listen. I'm like, this is how I was in college, and this is how I am again now. And he was like, okay, let's. Let's have him test. So it really took that to get him on board.

That's. I'm really glad to hear that. I remember I did another episode a while back, too, that was talking about different defense mechanisms and different ways to overcome natural defenses. And one of them, it was, was showing so much like, undeniable proof that now the person's mind, like, your mind, never wants to feel like it's wrong. Like, our subconscious always wants to be right. And so it always tries to validate and justify things to feel like it's right. And at some point, if you continue to overload that mind with enough undeniable proof, the mind that's in denial, at some point, there's this balancing act that your subconscious does where it's like, wait, I don't want to be wrong. And now I think I might actually be wrong. And Then naturally you start, like, you. Like, you don't even think about it, but your brain starts working. It's like a weird brain trick. Right. And so it's. It's. It's interesting. So that. That's. That's. I'm glad to hear that that was helpful.

It took that, and then I researched and did a mold mycotoxins urine test on myself and my daughter. So between him listening to that and me giving him the results that showed we had mold, mycotoxins, and some of the most toxic mold, mycotoxins. It was like, whatever we need to do. And I think it was that night that I called you guys and started the process. So.

I had a lot of health challenges. I feel like I have to lead into why I even first looked into it. So in 2021. And I feel like you shared this too. But I think it's so important to share with people that a standard home inspection is not a mold inspection. And you buy your house, you have a home inspection, and you think, okay, we're good. Everything's fine. But they don't look for mold. So moving forward, if I ever bought a house again, I would hire you guys to inspect my house and check for mold, since I know especially I'm sensitive. So we bought our house. No red flags. Nothing was pointed out that could have been a potential leak or mold. And within weeks, we were having illnesses. Extreme fevers, norovirus, like symptoms. And this was in the summer, so it wasn't even cold.

And flu season weeks that fast. Did you guys have anything before the house? Was there any general health kind of, you know?

No.

Weakened immune systems were sick often, anything like that?

No. The only thing that we could think. And we kind of shrugged it off because it was 20, 21.

Yeah.

It's right after everybody being at home. So we're like, okay, it could be we're just building our immune systems. But it was in June, so it was in the summer. It's not cold and flu season. So times progressed, and we just kind of looked past that. Ed at the time, a kindergartner and a preschooler. So they would bring home germs, they would get sick. And I was getting everything that they brought home.

I'm there right now, by the way. Six and three. And it's just every week, I don't.

Know, house that's making you sick. I cannot tell you. I would start to get anxiety because every night I would hear coughing, and I'm like, I don't want to go to bed because I know that my kids would be coughing all night long. So it started to almost bring anxiety because they were constantly getting sick. And so we're like, oh, it's just they're building their immune system. You're kind of shrugging it off. And it continually happened. And then when I got everything that they got, I'm like, this isn't normal. I should have an immune system. I was healthy before. So once at one point, my three year old at the time was so sick that we went to urgent care, and they were testing her for cancer because she had so many unique symptoms. Her whole gums had swelled. It wasn't hand, foot, and mouth. It wasn't anything they could pinpoint. All the tests were negative. So they test her and they're like, we're just gonna see. Because I've seen swollen gums in children that have had cancer. So for a full day, I was terrified.

Oh, my gosh.

No answer as to why she was a thumb sucker. So now, in hindsight, I'm like, she's probably touching things all around the house and then sucking her thumb. So that was a big scare, kind of again, passed on. And then I think, like, six months later, I got really sick. And it was to where I had.

Mononucleosis, which is Epstein virus reactivated. I had it in high school.

Oh, okay.

Had it before. And I tested positive. I think it's for three strains. So it's like a new infection, current infection, and old infection. So my body, my immune system was so weakened that it didn't recognize I had it before oral thrush.

And I was so sick that at that time, the doctor again was like, I've only seen adults with oral thrush that are going through chemotherapy. So my immune system was as weakened as somebody is going through chemotherapy, and I wasn't kicking it.

What type of doctor were you were you seeing?

That was a primary.

Got it.

Your doctor. At that point, I hadn't seen a naturopath because I was trusting the system. Like, get me answers. We did full blood panels. They couldn't find anything significantly wrong. And that's when I started going down the Google rabbit hole. I'm a rabbit hole person. I'll go down there. And I'm like, my husband's joking. He's like, who are you kissing?

I promise. So I'm googling adults with Epstein Barr virus, and I saw one naturopath write an article that said in most cases, they've seen an adult that has it that's exposed to toxic mold. And that's getting on Instagram and Googling and searching around. And that's when I found you. Because I'm like, what do I do? I. I feel like this is it. And it was your team that I reached out to, because I once I had a feeling it was my house, and I had the mycotoxins urine test positive. I'm like, what do I do now? I remember I cried for, I think, a full day, just feeling frozen. Do I sell my house? Do I start opening walls? Like, what do I do? And that's when I called you guys, because I'm like, I need help.

Yeah. I thank you for the background. It's really helpful. I mean, for example, just to throw it out there. Oral. I had oral thrush because I had a candida overgrowth. And a candida overgrowth happens a lot because you have an imbalance, a fungal imbalance in your gut. And your gut gets messed up a lot because you're exp. So, like me being in homes for nearly a decade, and every day I would go into a house that was terrible because that's the people that we work with. Right. So I was like, tricking my body into thinking I lived in this terrible house. And in turn, you know, especially in the early years. Cause I didn't. I didn't really know how to protect myself in the houses in the early years. Right.

Yeah.

And so I had more of an exposure in the early time before I was like, really, you know, now everybody, if our team walks in your house, they're like in spacesuits by the time they walk in the door. But when I first started, it was. I was wearing jeans and a T shirt, and half the time I wasn't wearing my mask. And it's just because I didn't know any better. Right. So, you know, it's, you know, these types of. These types of symptoms.

Just if you're. If you're. The whole reason I'm bringing that up is if somebody says, like, oh, I've only seen this in acts, like, dig a little bit. Right. Because that's actually a really common type of. And. And it's easily fixed. If it's truly just a candida overgrowth, it's. It's a. There's a specific medication you could take that's an antifungal that'll kill it. That'll knock it out.

Ended up in a detox. But that doctor never knew that it took. Finally getting natural path and a mold literate one. Like, this is why. Yeah, yeah.

So okay, so you guys were fine. You move in, couple weeks, everything hits the fan. You get your mycotoxin tests done, and you see. So it was you and your daughter that both had positive.

Yes, because it's so expensive. Of course, we only. Myself and my daughter, the one. We were the two that seemed the most affected. My daughter had a lymph node that was just bulging in her neck, and it wouldn't go away. And she had kind of the allergy shiners around her eyes, and she was just constantly sick. She had this, like, nose twitch thing. Turns out she had some colonization of Fusarium, which was really hard to hear. And it's, you know, it's as bad as it sounds. It's literally growing inside your gut.

Was it sinus or gut? They knew where it was.

They. They said gut from how her symptoms were. Yeah. And. And after detox, she's back to normal. But. Yeah, so we did, both of us, and when I tested mine, my cato globosin, I think I'm saying that's right. 109, which is off the charts. It should be nine or less. So that was scary.

Can we talk colonization for a second? I think, first off, was it with you as well or just her?

Well, now most of my nicotoxins are gone, but my Fusarium is what's still struggling. So there's a chance that I could be still detoxing that. My ketoglobusin, that got down to, I think, seven after the Fusarium is what's kind of sticking. So I don't know if we're still doing that.

Got it.

Yeah.

Yeah. I just want to kind of explain that a little bit for folks, because I feel like that piece of the equation sometimes gets missed. Like, we think that the environment is the thing. And so actually, Dr. Jill, Christa, you know, friend of mine that we talk, you know, we've had multiple pods, but she always uses this phrase that your body has become the moldy building at some point. So what. What she means and what she's talking about is it's not just now that you're breathing it because it's growing in your environment, but it's actually growing in you. And this is actually. This could be a reason that maybe your mycotoxin production doesn't go down, even if you leave a space that has something. Right. Because now it's being produced internally and what's going on. So it's. You know, the. The mycotoxin test you did is a very Good. Like, screening type of test. Right. Like, do I have a toxin issue, you know, or not? And that kind of gets you to the next step. So the colonization part is changes the treatment protocol a little bit too. Right. Because now we have to actually work on that in addition to detoxing and certain things.

Yep. Yeah. And now that we've detoxed. Good. That's the next step I'm saving up to do. I think it's called the oat test, to check to see if I possibly do have colonization. At first it didn't show up that I did, so we didn't treat it. But now that it hasn't gone down, we're like, that's the next step after I go back to work.

Yeah.

So for anyone who does a urine Mico. So you mentioned the fusarium mold. So that's 00 on the mycotoxin panel. So, like, if you're seeing that, that's. That's the mold that's tied to Fusarium.

Yep. Yeah.

And then, you guys, there was otratoxin A that was elevated too, right?

Yes, we had ochratoxin A. And then. So when your team came, we did a full. I think it was 11 hours. I think we had some wi fi challenges for your guy. Poor guy.

I mean, it was the most thorough inspection ever. And what shocked me the most when he was here and when I got the results was that it was our H vac system that was so severely contaminated. I mean, I feel like this would be a reel that I would see and be like, oh, my gosh. Because it was over a million spores in our H vac. So no wonder when we moved in in June and we had our AC going all day, no wonder we were getting sick. It had ketomium stocky, but it didn't test for Fusarium. But I'm almost positive fuserium would have been in it as well. And that was just blowing through our house. So we completely replaced that system.

I'd love to point out real quickly on your system, it wasn't visually disgusting.

No, it's looked great.

I'm really looking at pictures of it right now, and this is what I tell people a lot too. It just looks a little dirty. Right. And, you know, the way that these H VAC systems can become contaminated is that over time, they're pulling in. You know, they suck air in from the house. Right. So if you have a source, you know, over here and over there and over there, wherever it is, that all gets pulled into the system. Most systems that we look at look like yours. Most of them are just dusty and dirty. Right. And then the question is, what's the composition of the dirt and the dust? Because that's what's getting pushed through the. Pushed through the system and sending out. This is a really big issue with, like, H Vac contractors. Like, there'll be times where people like, oh, my H Vac guy came and said, it all looks fine. It's like your H Vac guy is not looking at. At it in this way. They're just looking to make sure that your heat, that your air gets cold and hot. Like, that's what they're doing. Right. But the composition of the dirt and the dust, is there toxins in it? Is there high mold loads in it, which there was in yours? Is that getting pushed through the house that becomes a source, even though it wasn't actually growing there in the first place? And, yeah, your labs are really high on that.

Yep. And I think a big part of it, when we did take it out, because I was like, let. I wanted to see everything that was taken out of my house. I resigned from work because I was so sick. So I was, like, full general contractor mode. I watched everything that went in and everything that went out. And our. Is it the plenum where all the air goes and then it's distributed through the house? Y was fiberglass.

Yep.

Almost looked black. And so that is just a sponge for anything this house has ever had. And my house was a rental for 25 or so years before we bought it. So anything bad just sat in there and got distributed.

So that's a really good point. I'm looking at that picture, too. And it's, you know, yellow kind of exposed fiberglass insulation. But it looks really dark. And it's not that. It looks like mold is growing on it. It looks like it retained and held a bunch of dirt and a bunch of particle for a long period of time. And it looks. It just looks like heavily compromised from being exposed to a bunch of stuff. And so, little tip for everyone listening. You don't want exposed insulation in your H Vac system. They can insulate them, but you want them to put, like, a. It kind of looks like aluminum in a way, but there's, like, kind of a foil facing front that they put on the front of it, and that protects the porous. The porosity of the. Of the. Like, the fiberglass stuff that would hold everything and makes it easier to clean. So I just want to throw that in there.

But even A few of our. I think it's a boot. So the return. A couple boots had that material as well. And we were done with home, our remediation. And I looked in there and I'm like, that looks black. How come nobody saw that? I'm like, get that out of here. So we had replaced a couple boots that had that as well.

And I love that you're involved in that. Right. There are. There are points in this process where even like after we come in, it's like, okay, here's the plan. The plan tells you to. To do all these things, but then the people have to execute the plan. Right. And so it sounds like you really dug into the plan and knew exactly what was supposed to be happening everywhere to make sure that they were doing the things that were actually outlined. And that's like a disconnect that sometimes happened between the inspection piece and whoever's going to execute the remediation is like, they'll be like, oh, yeah, here's the report. You got to do this. And they just want to go do the way they do it. Right. But the way they do it is generally not the way that we want it done. And so then there's this disconnect there. And so you being involved is really important.

Yeah, I was probably overly involved. When we were rebuilding things, I remember a guy came in and he bought a piece of wood from Home Depot and was about to walk it in my house, and it had mold on it, and it was just a contractor rebuilding. Right. We did our bathroom. We did a lot of work on the house. And I stopped him at the door. I'm like, that can't go in my house. The poor guy had no idea. But that just shows how so many people can easily make these mistakes and they don't know how harmful mold can be. Yeah, yeah. So.

So let's talk through a little more of what. What was found. Right. So we talked about the H VAC system. What. What were maybe some things that. That we flagged that you were like completely surprised that. That it was a problem.

Our kitchen. So our kitchen was a large issue there. You found, I believe that was stocky botrys and catomium under our dishwasher. And we had no idea, but we had some water intrusion coming from outside. And so all of our vinyl LVP was kind of lifting and bubbling. And we just thought it was because they had a contractor that didn't do a great job putting them in. And lo and behold, once we opened it and started remediating I even went in with an extra swab and tested a little bit of mold, and that was stocky buttress. So I had no idea that my kitchen had it and my bedroom ended up having it too. We had a very hidden leak in my master bedroom. So I actually had told you guys not to test my bedroom because I was like, oh, we already did a remediation, but we have. We had another roof leak that we had no idea about. So you're. Oh, our attic. Our attic. You guys found a lot of mold, and we didn't know that. We had no idea that our mold was that bad in the attic.

So what had you done in your master bedroom before?

We had some window leaks, and so we had opened up a window, did remediation, and we ended up all of our windows that we had put in when we moved into the house in 2021 were not waterproofed. So we had to remove stucco. Because we're in California, we have stucco walls. Remove all the windows re waterproof and put them back in. So I was like, my bedroom's good. My windows are good. We're fine. Like, we're great. But it was. We had a roof leak, and the water was going down the wall behind my headboard and under my bed. So when we removed carpet during all of our renovations that we did this summer, I saw tax stripes, and that was stocky watches and catobium. It was right under my bed.

On the tax strips.

On the tax strips, up the wall to the ceiling.

Yeah, and that's an important piece too, like the tack strips. So just to say what those are, like, when you lay your carpet down, there's like these little wood strips. They have like, little nails in them. And that's what kind of holds your carpet to the ground, basically. So those are called carpet tack strips. And you can pull your carpet off of it and you can see them. You know, sometimes you can't get it off. A lot of times you can, and there's a lot of times where we'll do that in specific places. And I was even looking in your. Again, I have all of your stuff in front of me, like, while we're talking, but I'm. Where there's a space right here where we specifically pulled them up. And. And they're all black. Right. And so, you know, the question that comes of that is why would a carpet tack strip be black? Right. So then it's not just, so the tack is black. I'm going to get rid of it. Mold needs water to grow. So Is the problem that it was a trapped humidity issue possibly, or is the problem that there was a moisture source in the wall right next to where the tax strip is that then increase the humidity in that space. And that's kind of like the pieces you need that we, you know, try to put together to try to figure out like source cause of what something is going on. And so you just kind of described that. Which is, which is a great visual.

Yep. Yeah, we, we had to follow it. I stopped because guys are about to put new flooring in and I said, stop what you're doing. I need to get remediation out here to open this wall. I was not taking any chances. And lo and behold, we had a massive roof leak. And it was going down. I mean, it was. There was black mold where the roof met the wall.

Yeah. And that was probably a big issue that I had because at first I was working remotely in my bedroom. So I would be in there all day.

Yeah.

There at night. And that's why I was so sick, because I was breathing in. You know, in the winter I'd have the windows shut and a heater on me. Just breathing in the spores all day and all night.

Spending the time in the room. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, so many areas. I think what was important you guys pointed out that I had these very tall ceilings in my front living room. I think they're 25 foot ceilings. And all these little picturesque windows had mold growing around them. So that kind of, I think, helped your team know too, that something's blowing through here. And so it's probably from my H Vac system blowing it through the house.

Yeah. A lot of times with windows, you know, windows are interesting. When mold grows, if it's growing, it needs moisture. Right. So then you look at windows and there's kind of like two reasons the window's leaking is reason one, water's coming from the outside, or reason two, there's condensation possibly forming on the window, the glass or the frame of the window because of humidity and temperature differences that can create the moisture. But at the end of the day, there needs to be mold spores floating around enough to allow mold to grow. Right. And so a lot of times, especially like the, the way just to describe like this room, it's, you know, big kind of, you know, big window within more smaller windows, even on top of the big window. Right. So they're like really high up there. And so H vac system becomes, you know, a big piece. Because a lot of times it's either you have stuff floating around in the house because you have a lot of other sources, possibly nearby or something, where there's a higher load in the air that could settle on them. Or your H Vac becomes the thing that's pushing it all over the place. Right. And so windows, toilet tanks. There's a lot of areas in the house where you can see things manifest. And it doesn't necessarily mean that's where it originated from. It's. It's manifesting there. It's showing there. But, like, it could be coming from something like an H vac system. The H Vacs are so important. They're so important.

And now I. There's so many people, I'm like, check your H VAC system. Because I would have never thought. I remember when I had my first call with you guys, you guys said, stop using your heater. Because I think I called you in December or January. Stopped. Because I think right before I called you, I had gotten double pink bite. I was losing my voice again. I had chronic laryngitis. And it was when I turned on my heater, when I started feeling all of that.

And that's a really good thing. You know, you're in California, Right. So people in California don't feel this as much as people in colder climates, like East Coast. Colder climates. There. There's generally a time and year when you put on the heat, like on the east coast, because it gets cold.

Yeah.

And the phone starts ringing twice as much as it used to on our end. And it's because everything is built up in the system, and it hasn't been run for a long time, which means there's a lot of dust buildup and things like that in there. You turn the heater on and it burns off the dust. And then all the particle that it was holding now gets aerosolized and pushed through the house. And so a lot of times, right when the season changes and you're using a different setting on your H Vac, if you notice a big change in how you're feeling, there's something happening in that H Vac system.

Yeah. And you guys. I think you tuned into that as soon as I was telling you what I was feeling, and I turned on my heat. I mean, right away, you guys said, stop using it. And I did. And I noticed my larynx was getting better. So, I mean, one of my biggest issues was I had chronic laryngitis. And I worked in sales, were talking all day long, and I would talk to a client. And then that night, I couldn't even read my kids a bedtime story. And that was one of the big indicators. I'm like, something's wrong. I can't do this. This isn't fair to my kids. So one of the many reasons I went to you guys and after we got our report from you guys, we did a full home remodel and remediation. We ended up replacing our roof completely. We. I think we did 35 or 40 new pieces of wood. So anytime there was any sort of a leak and there was water damaged wood, I was like, get rid of it. We.

Can we talk through a little bit of. So you get the report. There's a lot, right. I'm sure as you read it, it's probably overwhelming when you're looking at it. Did you do everything that was in the report for remediation? Let's start there.

I think we did all but one thing.

Okay, so you did a big chunk of it.

We did. We did most of it just because we were so sick. And when we got my mycotoxins test, I'm like, again, my husband was like, we need to do whatever we need to do. We. Yeah, we made it work. Because I couldn't sell this house as is knowing it could get somebody else sick. And we wanted to stay here. So we did most of it. But I love that you guys prioritized it. So you kind of made it a list of what's most important and what's important, because again, I would have been frozen and been like, now what do I do? I have all this information of where there's mold all over my house, but what do I do? And I think what I loved about you guys the most was you were like, look, we're trying to lessen the load. You can't do everything. I love the analogy of every time you're walking into your house, you're getting punched in the face. And I've said that to so many people because you guys said, I think it was you or somebody said it to me, and they're like, I made.

That up one day and it stuck.

I've. I've worked off it a little more, but it really.

I mean, that stuck because every time I came in the house, I was just getting sick. I mean, the house was truly poisoning me. And when I was in it all day and all night, that's when I just. I was so ill. And so I love that you guys were like, let's just lessen the times that you're getting punched. And that's the Goal. And I think that helped calm my nerves too, because when I got the report, since we had Katomi and stockybotrys, it was like a full pack out. Remember, we looked at it and I'm like, we move out, we take all our stuff out. What do we do?

Like, it was, did you do the full pack out? Did you execute it?

We. I lived through the renovations because I'm kind of crazy like that. And we had just had a puppy, but we replaced all of our mattresses, our pillows, our bedding, couches. All the carpets was taken out. We did mostly hardwood floors. And upstairs we have carpet that we replaced. But we pretty much did execute it.

Yeah. I mean, the full pack out, for those who haven't seen it, if you haven't gone, you know, gotten our reports, it kind of means what it sounds like. It's, take everything out of your house, like you're moving so your house can be cleaned.

Yeah.

It's not for everyone. We've. We've actually updated how we. How we include that in our reports now. We've added. We add two cleaning options now instead of one. So we'll say like, you know, based on your situation, we think this is like our primary path, you know, for what we're finding or connecting the dots and everything. But here's like a secondary cleaning you can do that might be a little less, can still be very effective, and a lot of people will do that one because a packout's intense. It's a lot. And you were doing a big remodel. So I feel like. Or it sounds like you kind of had a lot that you were going to be moving in and out anyway with that. So maybe that, that helped that process a little bit. But there's definitely plenty of people who have done kind of the secondary, which we call a deep clean, which isn't necessarily like removing everything from your house, but it is still things like the carpeting coming out and some specific things in there that we know harbor a lot of things. And you can get a pretty significant reduction there too. Right. And I. I think that's the point of, like, the priority piece of it in general is the goal is to just reduce exposure as much as you can.

Yeah.

While keeping in mind whatever limitations there are. Right. Because not everyone can do everything. And so how do we focus on the things that would have the biggest impact in the reduction? So.

So how did the. How did the conversations go with you and your husband before you made the plans of what remediation was going to look like, you get the report back, you're like, okay, here it is. Like, what did those talks look like? Because I think that's another big piece of this is. And it's also a reason why I think people get anxious and almost like sometimes too scared to even start the process is because of like, what's it gonna, you know, what's it gonna cost? Slash, how's it gonna impact my relationship with my partner? Because they're on board or they' on board or they're kind of on board or whatever that might look like. So how did. How did all that. How did those conversations go with you guys? How did you decide what you wanted to move forward with, how to proceed?

It was overwhelming and it was a lot to take in. And I think there was a few day buffer before we even had our calls. So I saw the report and I was going through it and I'm like, ryan, he's in. Is Brian too? And I'm like, he was at the fire station too. And I'm like sending it to him and I'm texting him saying, I think we need to move out. It's worse than I thought. It's in our H vac system. So, I mean, there was some conversation about it first, and he's trying to keep me calm and collected. But once we had the call with your team and it came from professionals and walking through and explaining and helping him understand how each of the things that we found can affect us. I mean, when he saw the H vac system, he was like, we have to get a new one. Like, between that and seeing that it was in our mycotoxins test, he was fully on board. And I remember even when we were ordering the test from you guys, I was like trying to be budget friendly because that's just me. That's how I am. And I was like, oh, let's not test that. Let's not test that. And he was like, don't take things out. He was the one that said, do all of these tests. And we probably did a couple hundred tests. I don't even know. We did a lot. But because our house, we didn't know any history. I mean, it was a rental before we bought it. So, yeah, at first we were going to do some things in phases, but then I just feel like we weren't going to heal that way. Right. So we did almost everything.

And an extra bathroom, I feel like, because we knew it looked like there was a previous leak in a bathroom before, so we just tackled it and he was supportive. And he's a firefighter, so he's worked a lot of overtime to help with that. We just. Just had a January fire season that even helped. And we've kind of just made it work. Like, we haven't gone on trips and travels like other families had, but it has 101% been worth it because I see my daughter, and she's laughing and smiling, and, like, after we did all the work on our house, she got this new goofy laugh. Like, my husband and I looked at each other, and we're like, what is that? And she's now, like, she, like, laughs at herself. And I could honestly start crying because I know that it was worth it. It's worth not buying new cars and going on trips because my children are healthy and they don't really get sick. This past week I did, but it's everywhere. I feel like cold and flu season is, like, rampant right now, and I.

It's okay to get normal sick. Yeah.

But it is just unbelievable to see their change and their transformation. And her lymph node is not swollen anymore. And at one point, the doctor wanted to do a tonsillectomy on her, but I was like, I'm going to dig deeper. I don't think it's that. And it was because her body was trying to get rid of these toxins. It was just. Her body was overwhelmed.

Well, yeah. And your lymph system is one of the pathways for detoxing. And if it gets, you know, if it's clogged, your methylation path isn't working and whatnot, then you get clogged up at your nodes.

Yeah. This is.

I think it's really helpful to hear.

And thank you for sharing all of this. You know, I'm looking through your priority doc here. So of it looks like we did about, I'd say about 30 tests. It looks like here.

A lot more.

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure it feels like that.

And I'm just ballparking here, but it looks like about 70% of them had a pro, had a problem of some level. And then the other 30% were like. Things were like, you know, the lab might not have shown something, but we're seeing something that, you know, we're concerned about. We would look, maybe do this for investigation or something like that just to make sure there's nothing going on there. And, you know, I think that that's probably pretty general. 80% of the time, 70% of the time, there's, like, something, and then there's, like, areas that Are not. And it's important. The reason I want to point it out is something that you mentioned that your husband said is the testing piece.

Pulling one or two things out of. Out of the source testing. Right. Like, I'm just looking at this. Let's, you know, for example, you know, you pull out something in the laundry room that ended up being a Tier 2, which we do letters, so it's your battery on ours. And we say, oh, maybe we don't want to do that.

There was a there.

Then you. Then you miss one of the higher load things that are going on. And it's, you know, what I try to. What I try to think what I talk to kind of how I talk to people about it now is in the priority document has been like a revelation in the business, frankly, since we put it in, because we used to like have these conversations, but there was no reference points. So we would then talk through the labs on calls. Like, we'd be like, no, I would maybe look at this first and this, that or this, that. And you know, it's hard to remember all of that when you're someone on the other end of the phone. And it's, you know, it's a lot.

To remember and look at.

Yeah, I feel like having a reference is really good here. But what it also like, helps you do is like, what you don't necessarily need to run at. Like, the way that I sort of look at this now is what do we not need to remediate at least at a very high, you know, priority type of level. And how do we focus on, you know, kind of the bigger things here? And.

Yeah, yeah, we end up doing.

Even a little bit more just because when we lift up our vinyl flooring, I go in because again, I'm probably people's worst client. I'm like, I'm going to see everything you're doing. And I saw some mold underneath the vinyl. I'm like, nope, we are remediating my whole kitchen in front living room. We actually tarped that whole thing off and remediated it.

The flooring stuff. Yeah. And it was because you. You started see it, seeing it from under the dishwasher and then it was like, we're gonna pull this out.

You guys had tested on the dishwasher and that's what inclined us to look, pull it out and open the wall there. And we saw that there was, I mean, it looks like moisture for many, many years. And my husband water a plant right outside our little nook area. And I think there was Just too much water and a hydro Jack. Hydro Drastic pressure was kind of getting it to come in is what we now assume.

Yeah.

Moved that plant since then, but I feel like that's what it was. But you guys swabbing under the dishwasher is about. Kudos in. There was no leak at the dishwasher. It was coming from underneath.

Yeah, yeah. There's like very minimal little discoloration under there. And were there, were there areas like when you were, when we were showing you? So the flow of this is we, we come in the house, we kind of document everything. We, we collect samples in places that we think that there's problems. Then there's a follow up call and then we show you all of the things. Right. We do like a zoom and we show you all the things. Was there a point in that? In that? Because I feel like it happens with everybody at some point. Was there a point in that where you're like, this doesn't look that bad, but they want to test it, but it doesn't look that bad. Did that ever creep into your head at all? When we were going through.

When I got my H vac results, I was like, they totally mistook this with another one. I was like, this must be a lab mistake. This, I think it was put in and I mean it was like 8 years old, so it's not even that old of an H vac system. So I was like in my head, I remember, I think that night I was like, no, they probably just a lab mistake. It can't be that bad. So that went through my head because again, I'm like, our house can't be that bad. Like you don't see mold on it, as you were saying. But it was fast. And I think it really was that plenum that was harboring anything and everything and especially mucorin. Rhizopus, whatever that one is, I've never really found out. But that one I think had over a million spores.

Yeah. And it's interesting because that one is. So the, the testing that we did in the H Vac, it's the same panel of tests that you would find in an urmi. It's just collected differently, so it doesn't give you like an URMI score. But it's still the same molds. And that particular mole group, the mucor. And I. I say Rhizopus. I don't know actually what it is.

I feel like if I say it, maybe people start saying it that way.

It looks really scary when you Google it, don't do it because I'm like, we were breathing that in.

Well, it's interesting because, you know, it's funny about, like, those. That panel, specifically, like, an ERMI panel, there's the 36 molds on it. And even in the. The lab that was sent to you for this particular one, it's not called an ermie, but they still separate the molds in those groups. Right. And. And the second group in these groupings, they call common outdoor molds, and they make it sound like that they're, like, fine, and it's totally cool, and those molds are nothing. And I feel like a lot of times the verbiage that's used around them, it devalues the importance of them in ways. Like that particular mold type that was in your group, too, is like 1.7 million or something like that. It was the highest single mold species load of all the 36. You had some others up in the higher. You know, in different ones as well. But, like, that was the biggest one. And then it's like, well, if it's a common outdoor mold, is it really a problem or not? And, like, you know, my response is, like, if your body's responding to a mold exposure, then who cares what kind of mold it is? Right? Go back to the punch in the face analogy. Who cares if it's a big guy or a small guy or a big girl or a kid with a bat? Like, who cares? I'm getting hit in the face, and it hurts.

It's like.

Yeah, yeah.

All right.

Yep.

Wow. Well, this is. This is really cool to kind of hear your from start to finish cycle. How's everybody doing? Let's wrap it up here. How are we all doing?

We're great. I'm even back at going to workout classes. And I used to. Anytime I would go, I love doing bar. I would go to class, and I would get sick. After before, like, I just knew I couldn't be around any kind of germs. I would go into the hotel I worked at and meet with clients, and I would get sick. I don't. I. My immune system, knock on wood, is a rock star now. Like, I have energy. I've. I gained 15 to 20 pounds. Full body inflammation, and that's all gone. My daughter. My husband's still great and healthy and fit like he always is because he wasn't impacted.

Sounds like a superhero firefighter. He really, literally is.

I know. I know.

Briefly, what's some of the. On the medical side of things, what are some of the protocols or Detox regimens that you guys had used.

Yeah, my first naturopath, bless her heart, she was local and she was amazing. She's the one that had me first do a mycotoxins test. She had me doing antifungal and a charcoal binder, I'm pretty sure. And get detox pathways going, tmi. But you pee, poop and sweat. Well, mycotoxins out.

Yep.

Like, it's all how you get it out. So it was pretty strong and I had a lot of headaches and it was a little bit challenging. And I did find another one that I feel like is very mold literate and he put me on a little bit more gentle. So as I think liver and kidney support, this thing called sludge, which I girls water every day and they have a liver support as well and a really good probiotic. I think it's omega 4 probiotics. That's what we're doing currently.

Yeah, it's. I'm glad that you mentioned that.

So there's different approaches. Again, not a doctor, everyone, but there's. There's different approaches in. And what you were describing at the beginning happens a lot with people where it's, you know, you're getting. They're called Herx reactions, but you're basically detoxing too fast and you're mobilizing too much and then it, it impacts you. And so then switching to what the other person did, basically what they. Sounds like what they were doing was helping to.

To increase the effectiveness of your methylation pathways first before you then come in and start hitting detox. Right. So the reason that like you would hurt. Hurt on a detox is because your methylation path, which just think of it as like the path out of your body, let's just say, right. Like the road that leads the tubes that lead out of your body, if they're not open enough and they're clogged up or they're not functioning properly or the flow isn't strong enough, then when you detox the toxins, they're not leaving your body fast enough. And then once they're in there, they start triggering responses because you're mobilizing toxins. And now they're. Now they're even out of your cells or even more. More able to trigger you. Right. So like, then the thought process is, let's start with your detoxification pathways, which are like liver support and things like that, like you're talking about, that allows you to get things out more effectively. And then you start layering on some More of the aggressive, detoxing pieces, which would be, like, binders and certain things that would help start pushing things out. So it sounds like when you switch to like. Like opening the paths and then kind of easing into it, that you noticed, like, that, that it was feeling better.

Yep, I was feeling better. And then six months after we started that, that's when my ketoglobusin went from 109 down to, I think, seven, which is amazing. And most everything went down. The only thing that didn't was the fuserium. So I'm still like, of course. You never stop wondering. But I'm like, is there anywhere else in the house? Is there anywhere I missed? You know?

Can I just say something to that? Because first off, you're feeling a lot better, right. You still have a mycotoxin in your body. I want people to hear this. I have. I have mycotoxins in my body right now. Right. Like, I did. I did a test, like, maybe a year ago or something, and I still have some stuff in there. It's not always all or nothing. Right. It's there. Your body can handle so much, and you just need to get less than what your body can handle. So your body can handle it. Right. Like, there are many, many, many people that have mycotoxins in their body, don't even know it, and they don't have symptoms. Right.

It's true. And they're fine.

Yeah. And so I think it's really important that you're like, hey, we're doing great, feeling good. I still have this mycotoxin in my body, still trying to work on it. So there. There is this path where it's not, like, 100% perfect. And I think that's where, like, a lot of the anxiety around all of this stuff comes from. It's like, I have to do everything or I'll never get better, or I have to get it all out or I'll never feel better. And it's not black and white. It's a range. Right. It's. It's a. You know, it's a path. Black to white. There's shades of gray in between. And the other thing that you mentioned, which is a secondary piece, is, like, always, like, wondering, is there something here? Is there something there when it rains?

Like, let me check.

So I think. I think there's a healthy version of that, and then there's a version that isn't right. And I have that. I mean, I do that all the time, just from the. I'm always Looking at stuff phase. But the thing of. And I'll actually say this to people, too, because sometimes the question comes up. I mean, you had a big project here, right? So do we even do this project or do we go somewhere else? Like, that's part of the thought process, right? And one thing, I was just talking with somebody a couple of weeks ago about this, and I could tell from the person.

That they were never going to not question the house. Like, I could just kind of tell from the conversation, you know? So I asked and it was. It was the husband and the wife. And it was. It was. I was getting the vibes from the wife that.

That.

That was kind of the feeling that she had. And I asked her. I was like, hey, let me ask you something. It's like, let's say that you did every single thing on here. Let's just say money wasn't an issue. You did every single thing on here. Everything that we found, you did, all of it.

Would you go back into the house and feel good about it? Or do you think that you would always have this little thing in the back of your mind, like, did we get it all? Did I miss something? Is this house okay? Is it it? And she's like, I. She basically said, I don't. I think I'll always like. I was like, okay, so if that's the case, what's going to happen? You're going to go to sleep at night and you're still going to be in a fight or flight response. You're still going to be in your sympathetic state, even though there isn't something happening in the house. And that's not healthy either, outside of the fact that these things are gone. And I think that's like an important piece of, like, when you're making the decision, what path are we going down? There's a financial component. What's the house worth? What will it cost? What can we find, like, all those things? There's like that piece of it, but then there's like this piece of it, too. It's like, even if I did everything, like, would I do? I think I would be comfortable walking back in if someone told me we did it all and you're obviously okay coming back in. So I know that's not what you were saying, but it just kind of triggered that in my mind. Like, this is a consideration piece. When we're deciding, like, what the action is going to be.

You really had to consider as well. And then, I mean, we're in San Diego where a lot of homes need new roofs. And we had, I think, two historic rainfall seasons. And I was like, if we sold, we could very well just end up somewhere with the same challenge or. Yeah, we brought this team in. We know every single issue, and we can tackle them as we go and feel good. We'll probably just do that in another house if we didn't do it here.

Yeah, I mean, I, 95% of the time agree with you. Right. Because every house has problems. And if you're gonna live in kind of the same area because your kids are in the schools and you want to stay in the schools or you like where you are, then all the houses were built around the same time, which means that all the same things are kind of happening to all the houses, just maybe in a slightly different order in a different time frame. And so going from one to the other, you're going to be starting at the same spot again, most likely.

Right.

Unless you're making a drastic move to a much different type of build, then maybe it's different. And so, you know, if that's not something you're in for, the. What you just said is 100% true. Like, that house is going to have roof things, too. That house is going to have this, too, and so that becomes part of it, too.

Yeah, yeah. No, we feel great in the house, and I'm loving it again. I've been having so much fun decorating it. It was a beautiful house before. I remember when your team first saw it, they're like, this is a great house. Great views. I mean, when you hear how moldy my house was, you don't envision white walls decorated nicely. I mean, when you hear how toxic of a load it was, like, you kind of envision not a nice home, and it's just crazy that it was all hidden behind the walls. But now I've been able to fix it and kind of make it home again.

Yeah. Well, I love that for you. I'm so happy for you guys, and I'm glad that you guys are feeling better, and I'm glad that your daughter is laughing.

So cute.

Well, hey, listen, thank you so much for. For taking time and. And sharing your story and talking through it. I hope for those listening that, you know, if there's just one of you out there that heard this is like, oh, yeah. And, you know, and this helps you, then that's awesome. And if there's a thousand of you, that's even better. And if there's whatever, then that's. That's whatever it is. But I'm really, really grateful that you took some time to to chat through some stuff. And I know that these conversations are really helpful for people. And so thank you for doing that.

Thank you for everything you guys did. And again, I hope that even this story can help at least one person and a mom that has children that are not feeling well either. So that's my goal. Thank you.

All right. Thank you. And everyone, if you like this comment, subscribe all the things. Appreciate it. Thanks. Talk to you next time.

Bye.

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