190: The Functional Medicine Approach to Mold Inspections

Hello again, everyone, and welcome to today's show. If you're one of the 130 million people that are dealing with Sirs Lyme disease, autoimmune disease, or other conditions that are impacted by mold on a daily basis, and you need to learn how to eliminate that exposure, then you're in the right place. My name is Brian Carr, and you're listening to Mold Finders Radio.

All right, how are we doing? Got another. Another conversation today for you guys. So this one is kind of cool, because recently I even mentioned this, I think, on. On the socials a little while ago, but I have started taking some of the phone calls that you guys have when you're initially scheduling, like, your very first consult to just inquire about how we work with people. And the reason is because one of my coaches is out on paternity leave playing with his new little baby. And so I'm helping to cover for him and to be able to chat with you guys. And what's cool about it is that I'm getting to hear some of the questions and some of the things that you guys are having before you get through the process and before we start talking about how you handle the problems on the back end, which is really helpful. And it's nice to kind of dip into these different parts of our process personally with either myself or with Corey, so we can continue to see and hear and learn from you guys about how to better support you. All right? And so I've been doing this for a couple weeks, and the thing that really kind of stood out to Corey and myself as we were doing this was it seemed like the way that we talked about what. What a process, like, what this inspection process looked like, that it felt maybe overwhelming for folks. And so we really, like, sat down and tried to understand why. Why that might be and came to this idea that, you know, it's easy for me to talk about it or Corey to talk about it, because we've been talking about it forever. And so it makes sense to us. We understand it, but we know most people are not like these. These individuals who have spent years and years, you know, researching and understanding how processes work. Even a lot of the folks that are researching their health are really kind of more focused on, like, the health component, but not necessarily on, like, well, what makes a good inspection or what doesn't make a good inspection. And so we really sat down. We're like, hey, let's rethink about how we talk about this so.

It'S easier to understand, because there's already enough hard things to understand. Right. And so we were talking about, well, why is our process the way that it is? How did we build it? You know, we're talking about, I mean, this is going back years and years before Weinspect was even a national company. I was really talking through, like, why we decided to structure the process the way that we do. And we came back to the core reason that we did it, which was we felt that the general approach that most inspectors take in a home is similar to the general approach that mainstream medical doctors take when they're trying to diagnose or treat somebody who is having health symptoms that are ultimately tied to mold. Meaning they don't really get to the root cause of problem. They don't even really consider or understand that environment might be a trigger, and it becomes unhelpful for people. Right. And so, you know, we had seen on our end that it's kind of the same. There's a lot of these inspectors that sort of treat it almost in the same way. It's like, oh, well, you do one thing, you take air samples in rooms and it says one thing, and if it says this, then it's fine. And, you know, we always knew that wasn't the case. And so when we designed the we inspect process, we really designed it around the process that a functional medicine doctor or integrated medicine doctor takes with their patient. And we essentially created a mirror of the patient journey when working with a doctor to how they would work with us, too. Right. I actually did an episode with Dr. Stephen Cabral last year where we spent a lot of time going through this back and forth and how we mirrored the same process. And that kind of came up in my head while we were talking about this. And so we sort of reframed how we communicate what we do. And so I thought I would share that with you guys and see if you know, anyone who might be confused or like, well, what's really the difference? And looking at it one way versus the other way or whatever, if this maybe helps to kind of bring some clarity to that. Right. So what I want to do is, you know, we. We really think about the process like, you're working with a doctor, but it's a doctor for your home. Right. So, you know, just like a doctor begins, they have an intake process, right? Sometimes it's a form, sometimes it's a phone call, you know, beforehand what might be. Then they do like, a general kind of physical exam. Then they run labs, right. They'll run lab testing and Then they build a treatment plan based on the results of the lab testing. Right? So you kind of have these four steps that occur through the process. And then at the very end they have kind of like a final wrap up with you where they're explaining all of it for you, they're explaining their treatment plan and they're helping to answer your questions and to make sure you understand. Like, you take this thing in the morning, but this one you take in the afternoon. And this is why. And oh, you got to do this like every other day and like all these things, right? Because sometimes the plan can feel complicated. And so then kind of the final step you have with them is you sit down and they explain the plan to you and you know, you ask questions and you kind of go through a process. Like, so we do the. We literally have the same five steps. Like we built it in lockstep with how this process works with doctors. And so this is how we started communicating, right? So like I said, think of it like working with your doctor before you're home. And they have, you know, these different steps. So on our end, the first step for us is a pre inspection phone call with your consultant. This is similar to the intake that you would do at your doctor's office, right? So on the intake at your doctor's office, they're asking, you know, health questions or asking family history, they're asking all these different things, whatever they need to know to be able to get the foundation of how you need to move forward. Right. And so for us, it's kind of the same thing. Right. And so, you know, our consultant, they're going to review, you know, home history, health concerns, any past testing that you've done, and then that becomes your main point of contact through the process. Right? So that's kind of step one Right? Now if you go back to the doctor side of it, the next step is you're going to have some sort of physical exam that happens, right? So maybe you talked with the nurse and you kind of did your intake stuff with them and then maybe now they're going to do some initial physical exam stuff or maybe your doctor comes in and does the physical exam. But there's some part of. Let me just look at you and see what's going on. Right? So basic vitals, you know, just kind of like things that they can do without specific lab testing. Right. And that's the next step for us too. Right? So for us it's an on site inspection. So instead of doing a physical exam of your body, we're doing a physical exam of your home, if you think of it that way. And so this is where we, you know, really perform a comprehensive assessment of the home. Now, like with a doctor, they, they have a team assisting them, right? So they usually have like a nurse and a physician's assistant and then maybe themselves, right? And they do this to make sure that they have multiple sets of eyes on your situation. So nothing falls through the cracks that can have major consequences. Right. On the health side, let's say, for example, you're allergic to penicillin or something, and then they prescribe you penicillin. That is a huge, huge problem. Right? So they have multiple sets of eyes built into their process to make sure that the quality of their process. Right. And that they're not letting anything slip through the cracks because there could be major consequences. And so we've adopted that same process too. On our end, your field inspector is physically on site at your home, but they're paired with one of our senior inspectors that's working in tandem with them from our home base. And together they're performing this comprehensive assessment of your whole home. Right? So, you know, they start outside, they come inside, they look in all the rooms, basements, crawl spaces, attics, all that stuff, right? And the idea here is that just like with the doctor, we put in this team approach to make sure nothing falls through the cracks and to make sure that you're receiving the top of the line assessment that we inspect is known for the reason that all the doctors all over the country refer their patients to us. Right? And this is how we're able to be very confident in the quality, quality control, and that the processes are being done very well. Because, listen, humans are humans. Human error is a thing, right? So it's almost like checks and balances built into that. We always wanted to have this secondary step to make sure things were lined up just like the doctors do when they have one person ask you if you're allergic to something, and then the next person asks you the same question, right? And then the doctor comes in, it's like, hey, just to confirm there's nothing here. Right? Like, that's why they're doing it. Right? And that's why, you know, that's why we kind of built it in as well. Then the next step of that process, you know, after you have your physical exam with your doctor and they're talking to your students and all this stuff, they're gonna, they're gonna put together what, what they think they need to test you for. So they can get data and information that they can then, you know, analyze to figure out what do they think is going on and what might be the best approach to handle it. Right. And so that's the same thing with us. So what's going to happen is now your doctor comes in the room, right, and they sit down with you after they do that and they're like, okay, here's what I want to do. I want to run, you know, this blood test and maybe I want to do this urine mycotoxin test and like, hey, I want to do some sort of gut testing to see if there's anything going on there. So we're going to do maybe the stool test over here. And I really just would want to get an understanding of how your body is working and where are the issues and this, that or the other. Right. And then off of that, they're going to be. Once I get that information in, I'm going to have an idea of like, what we need to prioritize and the order of steps that we need to do to get you to where you need to go. But I'm not going to know any of that until I set see this stuff, right? And so then that's kind of their thing. And so they have a sit down with you, right, after they've done some of these earlier steps and they talk through that with you. And that's the same exact thing then that we do. Right. So we're kind of mirroring that through. It's like after we go through the house, we have a follow up where your consultant is going to show you everything that we saw in the visual assessment of your home, which again is like the physical exam, right. And they're going to say, hey, you know, we saw this over here, this over here, this over here. We think that, you know, this, you know, X testing plan is what would make sense based off of your goals and what you're looking at and what your condition. Just all the information we've learned at the beginning, this is how we're going to look at that information and what it's going to tell us in the future. And this becomes your testing plan. Right. And just like with a doctor, you approve whether or not you want to run those tests, Right. We all know that, you know, some of these functional medicine labs are not, you know, covered by insurance, for example. Right. So you have to have a conversation about, am I, am I going to spend the money on that particular test? And if you're on the fence about like, do I really need this test. What happens, you ask your doctor and you're, you and your doctor have a conversation about the pros and the cons of including this particular, you know, antibody blood panel. So you could see like IgG IgE antibodies tied to certain molds. Like, is that going to be more helpful than maybe urine mycotoxin test? If I only had to pick, which one can I do? Because I have a budget issue, right? And the doctor's gonna talk to you and explain. Well, like, ideally I would like to see both, but if I can't, I would choose maybe this one. And then this is how my thought process is gonna work to then be able to decide. I might not know for sure, but we could do X, Y and Z. And then it would help kind of narrow down whatever, you know, whatever I think might be going on. Right? Like this is the con, the consultation that you're having with them just in developing and moving forward with the testing plan. And that's the same exact thing that we end up doing, right? So we might come see, you know, XYZ things. And the same thing happens, like, hey, do I, do I need to test like this and this, or what if I just tested this? Like, can we talk through that? And then we have these conversations and we really get to a point where we want our clients to feel that they're not necessarily compromising on information, but that the information that they're getting and what they're testing is done in the most cost effective way and that it, at the end of the day, not that anyone wakes up and is like, I want to spend X amount of dollars on testing mold in my house. Backtrack. I don't even know if anyone wakes up and says, I want to know what's happening in my house. I want, do I have, I want a mold inspection. Right? Like, people don't wake up and do that. Right. And so it's not that people are excited about going down this process, but what I want people to feel good about is they've already chosen to go down this process. I want them to feel that the conversations and the way the decisions are made and what you end up doing moving forward with and testing and information that they, that our clients feel that it is the most comprehensive approach while also taking into consideration budget and marrying or and balancing those two things together to get the, the best output that we can. Right. That's what I want and that's what we strive for when we have these conversations. The same way your doctor is going to have the same talk on do I do a urine mycotoxin test and this BL test or do I do one or do I do the other? And what are the pros and cons? Right? And so that's, that's basically what that, what that process looks like in comparison to the doctor and the inspection process right? Now after the labs go out, right, the doctor takes your blood samples and you do your, you send everything out to the lab. So then all that goes back to your doctor. And then your doctor is going to sit there, they're going to analyze everything, they're going to put together a treatment plan for you, okay? And they're going to break out everything they think that you need to do. And it's going to be written up in some sort of output or report that you get when, when you go visit the doctor. And so ours, we do the same exact thing, right? So except for, you know, clinical tests, we're looking at the results of the test behind your wall or the results of the test inside your H vac system or the mycotoxin sample from throughout the house or whatever. And we're putting together what do we think needs to be done in order to address these issues. Now the other big thing that we really, really focus on is prioritizing all of that stuff. We are really good at finding root cause mold sources in homes. We're very, very good at it. Most people don't remediate everything that we find. And I don't necessarily want everybody to have to remediate everything that we find. It's our job to not only say, you have this and we can't just blanket come in and say, okay, rip your whole house apart. That's the only way to do this. Right? And it's really similar how your doctors look at it too, right? Like they're trying to balance like reasonable outcomes or reasonable actions that somebody can would take with the result that they want to see, right? With the result that that individual wants to see. And so, for example, a doctor may want their person to do like all the biohacking things. Cause in a perfect world, if you're saunaing and cold plunging and red lighting and doing all the supplements, that's like amazing, right? But that might not be possible for most people, right? Not everybody has a wellness lab in their home and resources to buy all the supplements that are supposed to do all the things for your body, right? So then it becomes about prioritizing which of the things that the doctor think is going to be Helpful. The doctor's opinion doesn't change. The doctor still thinks that saunaing and cold plunging and red lighting and this binder and this supplement and NAD plus and all these things, they still think all of that is good. And in a perfect world, they would want you to do all those things, you know, whatever their version of that is. Right. But they understand that priorities are something that real people need to consider. And so then it becomes, which of these things do we think is going to have the biggest impact on getting you to your goal, from a doctor's perspective is feeling better. Right. Which of these things are going to make you feel better faster? Right. What's the path to get there? On our end, which of the things that we found in the home are going to reduce the mold exposure in the home the most? Right. How do we prioritize everything? So if you do see that we've identified a number of issues that you don't have to gut your whole house, I will tell you right now, most of our clients, almost all of them, don't do that. And it's because we direct them to the things that we feel are the biggest contributors to what's going on. And then you're effectively applying like the 8020 concept to the whole thing. It's like, where can I focus the majority of my effort, slash my remediation budget to get the biggest reduction, the biggest improvement that I'm looking for? And you kind of work down a priority scale like that. Right. And so that's what your doctor talks through. That's what they think about, I should say, before they create their treatment plan for you. Right. They figure all of that out and they essentially have all of that stuff kind of prioritized. And, you know, I've gotten these from my doctor before and they're like, hey, so this is, these are the must haves, these are the nice to haves, and these are the, you know, if you hit the lottery, have these. Right. And it's kind of the same thing. Right. And so what happens is then they. The last piece of this equation, after they've looked at your labs and put together your treatment plan and kind of document all this stuff, they have a conversation with you at the end of it. Right. That's part number five. And it's the same thing that we model too. We're like, we can't just send a report to somebody and think that they're going to do everything. Everyone's going to have questions because this stuff is complicated. The house is no less Complicated than the body. Right. And so it's the doctor's job to make it easy for you to understand and give you clear direction on what to do. It's our job to make it easy for you to understand and give you clear direction on what you need to do. Right. It's the exact same thing that we need to do as service providers for you to help you get better the fastest. Right. And so the last piece for us is a review call that goes over all of our recommendations. And, you know, think of that as that same conversation in your discharge that you have, you know, the discharge plan that you have with your doctor. Right. And that's the idea, you know, so, like, I wanted to break all of that down because I feel like as we. As. As. Like I said at the top, like, a lot of times, you know, I think we got so into talking about we do this and we look for this and we do that and we do this that a lot of times people have never even heard of those things. And so then it's like, is that really helping somebody understand how the process of going through this is going to benefit them? Right. And that's the thing that sometimes I was feeling kind of got lost a little bit is that's great that you guys have a process that does X, Y and Z and blah, blah, blah. How does that help me anymore than local mold inspector X? Right. Like what? Like. Like, where's that connection piece? And so anyways, Cory and I worked a lot on how we communicate that. This is just me kind of, you know, one offing it while we were talking. But I hope you guys find that helpful because I feel like if you understand.

And this isn't just in inspections, but it's like in anything. If you understand kind of like the framework that something is built on and like the goals and the different checkpoints along the way that it's supposed to do for you, then it's easier to kind of follow it along and okay, at this step, this is sort of what. What we know. Right. At the end of step one, I've got a little basic information from you, like the intake form. At the end of step two, I have a little more information. I've done a, you know, a general physical exam Right at the end of step three, we now are getting test results finalized so I can get a better feel of what's going on at the end of step four. Four, I'm the doctor, and I now have a full treatment plan put together. And at the end of step five, I'm going to sit down, talk with you. We're going to prioritize it all out. I'm going to make sure that you understand exactly what you need to do, how you need to do it, and when you need to do it. Right. And that is the exact same thing, step for step, like one through five, that we do. Right. So anyways, I have been having that conversation a little bit over the last, like, week or so with people, and I've noticed that it's just, like, helping so much in how the conversation goes. Like, the understanding has been really helpful. And I was like, well, if it's been helping with everybody I've been talking to individually really understand and grasp, like, how this whole thing works, then I thought it might help you guys, too. So I wanted to share that with you guys, too.

Last piece here before we get get out of this is there's a couple questions that came in, so I thought I would talk about a couple of those. So the first question, is it possible to eradicate hidden mold sources if. If there are dry hidden mold in an older home? Right. The short answer is yes. And the expanded answer is that is the majority of problems that we find in a home. Right. So when we're looking through a home. Sorry for the creaking. It's my old chair that I need to replace. Sorry, I won't lean back anymore. Like, when we go through home, we're kind of looking broadly for three different things. First one is our visible suspect. Mold somewhere. That's the first thing you look for. Sounds really easy, but sometimes people think that it's not. Sometimes it's just dirt or something. So that's the first piece, though. Second piece, are there any active moisture issues going on? So moisture meters, infrared cameras, that sort of thing. And it is very important to know if there's active moisture issues going on. Obviously, mold needs water to grow, right? So that piece is important. And there are definitely times that that stuff gets identified in a house. But then that leads us to the third thing. And this is where probably 80 to 90% of the problems we find in homes are or the category they fall into. And any of you guys who've been listening to any of my shows for a period of time already know what I'm going to say, but I'm going to say it anyway. It is areas that were previously impacted by moisture that are now dry. And while mold does need water to grow, like I just said a second ago, what it does not need is water to stay. Right? So imagine you plant a seed, you water the seed, the plant grows. Then you stop watering the plant. The plant doesn't just, like, pick up and run away. Go looking for another pot to live in that's going to get watered. The plant now starts kind of falling over the leaves. The. All that start drying out. Maybe the petals and the flowers start falling off, and the whole thing just kind of like, starts decaying in the pot where it is. Right? And that's what happens with mold. So the mold will stay. Right. And most problems that we find in homes are problems where there was a previous issue that got addressed or just stopped for some reason. Right. Like, not every leak that happens outside happens every single day. Maybe it only happens when it rains, but it doesn't rain that often where you are. So today, the area under the window is dry, but maybe after a heavy rain, it's maybe moist under there for a little bit of time, and then it dries out again. Right. Or maybe you had a leak in a sink cabinet where you fixed the faucet, so it stopped dripping in the sink cabinet. But the. The drip that had been happening was enough moisture for mold to grow on the bottom side of the cabinet. And then you stop the drip, and you think, oh, there's no more. You know, there's no more water. There can't be mold. Right. And that's just not how it works. So I would say, like, anecdotally, like 80 to 90% of the hidden mold problems that we find in homes are in areas that have these minorities little visual clues that maybe moisture has impacted the area. You know, maybe like a little bubbling in the paint or maybe a baseboard's pulling off the wall just, like, a little bit, you know, under a window. And you're like, why is this baseboard pulling off this wall just a little, teeny, tiny bit under a window? Right? Like, what's going on? So those are, you know, some of the things, you know, that we look at at that point as we're going through the process. So then to wrap up the answer to that question, is it possible to get rid of dry areas, you know, where there's dry mold in an older home? And the answer is absolutely, absolutely yes. And it's really rooted in the inspection process and not only relying on, is there mold on the surface or is there water moisture there right now? Because if you're doing that, you're missing probably 90% of the issues in the home. And so it's really based on this assessment that we do through the home and identifying these red flags where we think there could be mold hiding behind a wall and a ceiling and a floor in the cabinets, and being able to pinpoint those with source testing to tell us exactly where it is, which then now allows us to see, going back to the Dr. Analogy, what is the state of this area and what is the approach that we take to address it? Right, so, yeah, so hopefully that helps answer that question. All right, so the next question is, how is it possible to even remediate a home that comes back clean on all air tests? But ERMI says that there's aspergillus in some levels of catomium and stachybotrys. Could the ERMI be incorrect? I feel like I answer this all the time. So a lot of times I've been like. I haven't been like, re addressing some of these questions because I feel like I've said them so many times. But at the same time, not everybody listens to every word that I say. So maybe it just feels like I do it all the time, but maybe a lot of you haven't heard it. Right. So here's the deal. Air samples taken in the middle of a room from your mold inspector is the giantest, most humongousest red flag. I'm making up words for how ridiculous this is, that that mold inspector doesn't know what they're doing and they have no way to help you. That's what it means. Because mold doesn't grow in the air, it grows on surfaces. What is the purpose of a mold inspection? The purpose should be, not only is there a problem, but where is the problem and how do I fix the problem? Right. That needs to be the goal. If I'm taking an air sample in the middle of a room, how am I answering those next two questions? First off, it doesn't answer the first question well at all. Do I have a mole problem? These air samples in middle of rooms. I've done an internal study myself. Like, personally, when I went through homes for a period of time, 78% false negative rate on an air sample taken in the middle of a room. When I found a mold problem hidden in a wall less than three feet away. So the further away you get with an air sample, the less and less effective it gets. So in those scenarios, I found a problem in a wall, one of these signs of water damage I told you about. We did a cavity test. We pulled air from behind the wall, validated that there was an elevated mold issue behind the wall. There was a problem there. I walked Two, three feet away. I put an air sample at kind of the air quality breathing level that all these local inspectors do, and that sample comes back and says there's no problem. This is the foundational problem with our entire industry is that they roll in here with these air tests and they treat you. Going back to the doctor analogy, like the, the mainstream medicine doctor that just doesn't get it. That's how they treat the home. Right? So that's why people end up getting so annoyed with the medical doctors and having to, like, seek out functional medicine doctors. It's the same thing. That's why people have these mold inspections. They stay sick and then they end up seeking us out. Right. It's because that doesn't work. And everyone knows that it doesn't work. Who's actually looked into it. But, you know, apparently it's still allowed to happen. And I don't know how government works and all that stuff, but I imagine it would be very difficult to regulate all of that. So it is what it is, and it's something we have to deal with. Right. And that's why we're here to try to help. So that piece of it is. Can it even tell me if there's a mole problem? Not really. Goal number two, where's the problem coming from? Let's say it's the other 22% of the time. And it did come up on that air sample in the middle of the room that there was an elevated mole count. Great. Hooray, we have a mole problem. What do we do? I don't know. I took the air sample from the middle of the room. Cool. So where. What do we remediate? Oh, I don't know, because I don't know where it's. It's coming from the air. Like, no, it's not coming from the air. Mole grows on surfaces, doesn't grow in the air. So if you're testing the air to solve this problem, you are literally doing the wrong test to solve this problem. Right. And that's the big issue. Right. That's where all these companies come and say, oh, just fog your house. And it'll magically fix everything. It'll fix the air. The fog magically fixes the air. Or the other extreme, I guess you have to rip every wall open in this room to look for it. Right. That'd be equivalent to going to the doctor being like, hey, I'm not feeling good. Oh, yeah. We ran a really, like, cursory level blood test and saw that you have a low white blood Cell count. That's scary. We know that can mean cancer. I guess we should just cut you open from your. From neck to stomach and start looking for tumors. Like, that's literally the equivalent of what that is. It's stupid, right? And so when you start thinking about things in, like, ways that make sense to you, and then you apply, like, the logic to, like, what somebody is doing, it becomes really clear that what you're doing doesn't make a whole lot of logical sense. Right? And so going back to the question, how is it possible to remediate a home that comes back clean when your Ermie says there's problems, is the Ermie incorrect? The dust don't lie. The dust is the best way to understand if you have a mold issue in your house, because all of it will come and settle in the dust. Gravity pulls the particles down. The dust acts as a net or a spider web that holds on to it, and it gives you an understanding of what's actually there. If your dust test tells you that you have a high load of mold, you have a high load of mold, right? That. That isn't the problem. The dust test isn't the problem. The problem is the tests you're doing in the house for other things are the wrong test to do do. So how do you do it? How do you remediate a home is basically what we just talked about. It needs the inspection. You need to be looking for these visible clues of historical water damage. We need to be pinpointing where the sources are. And once we pinpoint where the sources are, we now know at least what needs to be remediated. Right? And then at that point, it's okay. These are all the things that have an issue that need to be remediated. Now let's talk about priorities and how do we do it in a way that balances cost and effect, Right? And then that becomes the ultimate plan. So that was a very long, drawn out answer for is it possible to remediate a home that has clean air test but a bad dust test? And the answer is yes. Happens almost every time that we go somewhere. So hope this episode was helpful for you guys. Gotta run, but appreciate the time and we'll talk to you soon.

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