How To Manage Clients At Scale (7-Figure Agency Secrets)

Cool.

So for the next 40 minutes, I think we should dive into a few specific issues that maybe you guys are running into right now or have questions about, and then as Cole and them come in, we can obviously turn the stage to them. Does that sound good?

Yep.

Cool.

Press to kick it off.

So this is like a Brian specific question, but also applicable to anyone that you know runs a service based business. Yeah. It's toeing the line between managing client satisfaction and also holding your ground of like, this is the way we do things, this is gonna get you results, but also doing it in a way where it doesn't compromise the relationship and they don't see it as like, oh, Brian's just being lazy, or he's being unwilling to compromise or meet my demands. How do you manage that balance between kind of keeping the client happy from a perceived value perspective, but also like doing everything you need to do to get the results and like being like, yo, this is what we need to do here to get results.

Charlie, you want to come up here with me as well? So Charlie's our client success director for our company. He's managing 50 plus clients, you know, like almost 60 at this point, it seems like. Actually, funny enough, I. I've known Charlie since seventh grade of middle school. We used to be addicted and played Runescape together and. Yeah, and he actually was working for Facebook, facebook.com at the time when I, when I recruited him to come work with me because I saw how many clients he was managing with Facebook, it was like 50 plus. And I was like, dude, just come do what you're doing at Facebook for us. So I want him to answer this question because we've been going through this a lot more frequently, specifically with our hybrid offer, because we've enrolled four times as many clients and our fulfillment's been a little bit of an issue as well. But, but, but he can talk about this because the name, the word of the last three months has been expectations.

Yeah. So the most important thing, especially when you're bringing on new clients, is you really have to set the stage in terms of what those deliverables look like and what the expectations are for both of you.

Right.

Because the biggest thing that we've ran into, especially with this new offer, is because it's a hybrid offer. And just to give you guys clarity and context in terms of what that means, we build something for them and then we coach them and release it to them. So the expectations are super high when we're going through this process of doing it for them. And they expect everything to work immediately, which sometimes it does. But most of the time, these are things that have to be worked through and optimized, especially from like a campaign management perspective, because all these clients, they don't have a lot of experience with running Google Ads, so they're kind of leaning on us because we did all the grunt work in the beginning and then we're coaching them on that process after that. But the reason why I say that is because in that process of launching this new offer, it's become very apparent to us, especially over the last few months, super, super important to tell them exactly what they're going to be getting, exactly what they can expect from us, and also telling them exactly what we expect from them in terms of going through that process. And the more clear that you get with your clients about what exactly they're going to be getting from you and what the expectations of them are for you as well, the better that relationship is going to be. Because again, I don't know exactly what context or what niche you guys. I know obviously you're trading. It sounds like, are you new copy?

Mostly. So we have a YouTuber getting agency, so we would be with people in the hype to get info. Space is up.

Okay, and so what specifically? Like, what's an example of a problem that you've had with clients when it comes to this particular issue?

Usually it's like very small things, and it's like being able to identify whether that's a thing that's like, worth, like, pushing back on and being like, no, we can't do that. And like, kind of being like, all right, like, whatever. It's not a big deal when a client has like, you know, some kind of feedback regarding a video or they don't want to do this, or just like little things like that where it's not like life or death. Like, if we compromise there, it's not a bigger issue, but more so the precedent of that sense of, like, okay, we compromised this time. Like, what can I get away with?

See, the problem with that is you start doing that for everybody.

Right, Exactly. And it adds up anyway.

Then it becomes this whole thing where you're doing one off things for 15 or 20 clients and then it's like, dude, how do I keep track of all this stuff that I said I was going to do and now I haven't done it. Or maybe now the client's asking you about something that was custom and now again, you're going through this process with so many different clients. That's why it's super important when you're going through the process, not only selling the client, so the first time that you ever talk to them about potentially working with them and then also in your onboarding process to really get clear on exactly what it is you're going to be doing for them so that they don't have any questions and they're not asking you to do things that you're not supposed to be doing when it comes to obviously what you're doing for them.

So like a specific example would be like for us, right? Like we obviously. So the hybrid offer, the way you guys, if you guys don't know, we create their ads for YouTube for them, for the client. We set up their ads on Google, we choose the targeting, we launch their campaign so they don't have to do all that tech, right? They don't have to worry about that. We give them a shortcut to getting set up and running. Now clients have come to us in a few different places and asked, hey, can you just resize these ads for Facebook too? And in the past we'd look at each other and be like, but then.

But we want to deliver the best experience.

We want to deliver the best experience possible because our core value is red carpet customer experience. So like, how much time does it take for our editors to just reshape those for Facebook? Not much. Right. So you got to have to, you always got to think about the core values of your company as well. So I was telling Charlie this and Nick last night as well. It's like, well, if we go back to our core values as a company, red carpet customer experience, we scale by delivering brag worthy results. We convert our clients in our best salesman. Right. And I use the quote of Jeff Bezos, we see our customers as invited guests to a party and we are the hosts. It's our job every day to make the customer experience just a little bit better. Right. So in that core value, therefore, you can make decisions based off what's in the best interest of the client experience for the client going through your service. And so if it takes just a little bit of extra minutes to reshape them for Facebook, then let's do that.

Right.

And let's just make that the standard moving forward. But the more you say yes to more custom stuff, the less productized your service becomes. And that's when it's hard to scale for sure.

Yeah. The other thing that would help with this too. And we were, and we've been talking about this a lot over the last few months is really getting aligned on what the goal is for them. Right. Because what that's going to do is going to make sure that everything you're doing is helping them get to that goal. And so for us, it's a lot easier for us because like YouTube ads, we want to get YouTube ads up and running. They haven't had this paid acquisition channel running before. So everything that we do is aligned with that. When this custom stuff comes up, like Facebook, et cetera, we've gone through that onboarding process of setting core experts expectations on what the goal is, what they're going to be getting from us. And a lot of the times you just got to stand your ground with that stuff and they'll respect you for doing that. You just have to be clear that it's in the best interest of you and the client that you're very clear on what you're doing for them. And also making sure that you're not letting them overstep your boundaries because it's going to cause you more stress, it's going to cause your team more stress, it's going to cause you have more work to do, which you shouldn't be doing because you need to focus on the thing that you guys actually agreed to do for them, if that makes sense.

Yeah, 100%. And I feel like a lot of that too is it's also intuitively knowing like the client's request is not going to move the needle results wise. And that is the most frustrating part.

So what's some of the requests?

So for example, it's like, you know, oh, can we shoot today? Or can you like follow me around today or something?

Oh, like, but like, but the night before they tell you this or something like that.

Yeah, or like the day before. Right. It's like most of the time the answer like, yes, we're able to, you know, provide. It's usually not that big of a commitment if you don't have anything plan, but it's like, do we, should we be doing that? Right. Because then that limits our bandwidth. Like, yes, it improves the client experience in the relationship for sure. But at one point does that become detrimental? Does that just start taking away.

Well, you're a full time videographer, right?

Exactly. Because then you just get kind of grouped back in that employee role in a way. Right?

Yeah.

And this is what kind of happens with Cam is like, you know, this kind of limits in some situations, like when he's always running around, like it limits his ability to work on his brand, his personal stuff and you know, basically get the client acquisition system up and running again because he's posting content and sometimes when there's too much, you know, extra stuff, so to speak, it limits how much he's able to do just because he's just so fried and, you know, he's running around all the time.

Yeah. I think the cool part about what you guys do and the business you guys have and the agency you're running, you only should have those clients that you do that for at a certain scale for like a few of them at a time. Right. That way you can provide that red carpet customer experience, but you still have to have the discipline to, you know, respect your time. Right. Because it's only inevitable. If you keep doing that, you're gonna burn out, like straight up, dude. And then eventually you're gonna hate the work because you're gonna have to be flying every single place doing custom work every single time, last minute. And then it's at your expense of your sleep. Right. And that's not good for you or for the client results. So then you have those clients that you obviously set boundaries with. Like Charlie said, proper expectations. Here's what we'll do. Here's what. And we can, we can accommodate, but then also be disciplined in saying, like, you know, this is just not within my capacity to do right now. But then you should have, in my opinion with you guys, another offer specifically for the more masses where you can coach them through that service virtually so you can reach way more people, way more people, 100%.

And I think another big part of that too is like when you're starting out and you want to build a name for yourself within this position specific industry, you're like, very tempted. You know, when you meet this person, like, yeah, we're doing everything for you. Like, you know, like full service. Like, we're gonna come in and like kind of be like your dedicated video team and that opaque messaging and kind of like description of what your services are, you know, beyond the deliverables. It's like, oh, well, they said they're like in house video team. So I guess I can have them come to this event tomorrow on last notice. Right. And so like you said, it's all about the expectations.

Do you have like a one shooter of like deliverables?

I mean, we have a service agreement, usually the deliverables. And it was just for YouTube videos. Like we don't say like, oh, X amount of shooting. It's like, we're going to create videos. Yeah.

So we have a sheet that I share on our morning calls. That tells them exactly everything they're getting from us. So there's never any confusion about what exactly their expectations are from us and what they're going to get from us.

So the next time after you do that, what Charlie just said with that sheet, you review it with them and. And then someone asks you to do something outside of that, you can, you can still. You can, yeah, you can refer to it, but you can also just letting.

You know, like, hey, just so letting.

You know, this is, this is outside of the scope of work technically based on what we agreed upon. But we're happy to do it for you this time because of course we want you to get it. Want you to get the best.

The frame of that is so much better too, because it just looks like you're going above and beyond what you are.

And the moment you, like, do it once and like accept like a lost nuclear once, then that's the expectation forever. Yeah. So like, they get used to the same. Okay, it's going to do. Yeah, for sure.

And it's a nuanced subject too, because it's like, definitely something that's allowed us to scale and build the relationships that we have thus far. But at what point does it just become like borderline unnecessary? Right. It's like when you're starting out and you don't really have the case studies and the tools yet and you're kind of in that process of still developing case studies and relationships you need stuff like that definitely helps, right? Because it shows that you're doing the unscalable things, you want to get results for them, you care about the relationship. And not that we don't want to stop doing that stuff, but at some point it just becomes like physically impossible for the amount of bandwidth and time. And I see this kid, like ripping Red Bulls three times a day and getting two hours of sleep on the red eye flights. It's not sustainable. And also it hinders and inhibits our personal rules as well, like what we want to do with the brand and potentially scaling on offer.

So, yeah, it just comes with awareness because I'm an empath. So the reason why I'm great at what I do is also my kryptonite. Right. Because I always want to go above and beyond for people and deliver the best experience possible. But as long as you have that awareness that this is something that's only going to hold you back from being able to get to the next level of scale or cyber clients or whatever it is that your goal is in your business, it's just going to put you in a much better position moving forward to make sure that you don't have these issues where you're letting people overstep the boundaries all the time.

Yeah. Charlie's great at his job because of the personality type that he is. Very empathetic, very relationship based, and we're always trying to do what's best for the client. But then again, like you said, that can hurt you sometimes because then you. You give. You give more than what, like, you're even supposed to. You give more of yourself. And it's at the risk of your own self, too.

Right.

And that's where it becomes bad. So if. Yeah, if it's causing you, like, health problems, that's where it becomes an issue too.

And then it starts taking away from other clients, too. Yeah, it's like, now I'm spending time doing something else for somebody when I should be focusing on working on something else 1000%.

And that.

That's also a very complex dynamic as well. Because, you know, the way that Cam has built his brand and the way we kind of document things online, it's like, we're always kind of documenting what we're doing with clients. And it's like, right. There's like a natural kind of competition anxiety between some of the. Some of the clients, like, oh, like, you're with him today. You know what I mean? Nothing's ever, like, explicitly come up, but I think about that sometimes for sure. Do you want to speak on this real quick? Like, just this entire subject? Because, you know, you're the one that seems to sleep. Yeah.

I mean, I think what it comes down to is I haven't really noticed as much of a difficulty on my end of things because, like, when I'm with the client, like, I'm with the client, you know, like. And that's like, one thing that I put a lot of focus on is, like, I want to be present. And it's like, if they want to shoot extra stuff, I'll shoot extra stuff. But I think where the disconnect can come in is when, like, press it's on Presley's side because he's like, more like client facing, you know, on the back end of, like, all the fulfillment items and whatnot. And, like, you know, they'll be like, oh, can we do the shoot?

Whatever.

And then, like, sometimes I'll just be like, that works for me. And then, like, I, like, overlook everything else that comes with that, the management and, like, you know, what is the current bandwidth of our team currently to take on more projects. And also, like, I don't know, for me, like, I would just say it's not as much of an issue. Like, I have a pretty good bearing on what I can do and when I'm pushing myself too much, like, because I've done it enough before where I know, like, where if I'm redlining or not and like I can like pull back from that and like, if I'm gonna burn out and like, you know, manage that. So like, if I go to Grand Canyon or something, I'm like, alright, I need like a solid reset, you know, and like gets myself back in the game. But I would say that I feel like, for example, one of our clients this morning was like, I sent him over a thumbnail. He's like, oh, do you think you could put some text on it? I was like, no, it doesn't need text. We'll see how it performs. But I'm more confident in the performance of it like this than you are with the fact that it needs text to perform. So I'm like the guy that would just be like, no, shut up, you're wrong. But I feel like, I don't know if you. I feel like you have more empathy and.

Yeah, and that's like where the cam is a little bit better at, like starting with the client. Because like I, I'm just like, yeah, like I just want to keep happy. Like, that's like kind of my main objective. But at the same time I am results oriented. Right. So you have those conflicting personality types where I'm like, you know, this is actually just not going to work better, but it's more the way in which you communicate it where you don't sound like, where it doesn't come across as like, oh, I just don't to want.

Gotcha.

Right. And that's like the tough thing as well was like, genuinely there's some situations where I'm like, this just doesn't make sense for either of us to invest time. Like, you know, for example, like one of our clients, he sent us like some really shitty footage and he's like, oh, I made this vlog, like, you guys should edit, like, put this on YouTube. I was like, respectfully, dude, like, this is not like the quality that we're proud of. And like, if this is like the pillar and the benchmark we set so far and standard, like this doesn't align with that. You know what I mean? And so it's like situations like that and being able to just say how it is, but also doing it in a way where you don't sound like you're just trying to, like, avoid work or dodge out work when it's like a genuine reason of, like, this doesn't make sense for you.

To us, I would say, like, to me, like, I gauge it is like, okay, so if the client comes to us and they're like, hey, like, I want to shoot a new bsl, I'm like, okay, you know, like, let's.

You know, let's bust that out.

Because realistically, like, our videos are pushing, right?

That would actually. That's a logical thing that would affect us.

It's like, we put in more work, but we're going to get paid more for the performance of stuff. So it's like, okay, that's fine. But then they'll be like, oh, can.

We shoot some shulk form?

I'm like, no. Like, why? No, that's completely outside the scope. That doesn't benefit. Like, that's a completely different platform, you know, and you're also. It's just not gonna perform. So it's like, no, you can shoot.

That on your own.

Yeah. A good frame to have with some of those issues where they start, like, pushing you around and asking for more and maybe questioning things that you guys are doing. They hired you guys to do a job, right? You guys are the experts that they hired. All the testimonials that you have, you're able to deliver on, you know, the things that you guys are good at. And so as long as you hold that frame when you have those conversations with them that, hey, you guys hired us to do this, like, the thumbnail suggestion where he's asking you to add text. Dude, we've seen it work. Well, we don't use text on thumbnails because we've seen it perform X, Y, and Z in the past. So appreciate the concern, but we're going to move forward with this direction. If we feel like we want to review it because the performance isn't there, then we can talk about that at a later time. But we've seen that, you know, thumbnails without text perform well. Again, they hired you guys to do a job. You're the experts. Just hold that frame when you have those conversations.

Yeah, and we just had, like, a few situations like that. For example, it was like, literally, it's just always like, the most frustrating things. I'm like, why are we even having this conversation right now? You know what I mean? It's like, this isn't a Good use of either time to, like, go back and forth and imessage right now. Right? And he was, like, trying to get advice from his friend that was like a YouTuber, but, like, the dude's channel was like, dead. And we were like, bro, this guy, like, he doesn't even know what he's doing. And then he was, like, trying to get his input on the content that we made. It was just like a whole situation. Right. So, like, at the end of the day, it doesn't really impact anything, but it's just, like, frustrating the precedent it sets. And, like, the principle of it, it's like, okay, you hired us, but you still lack trust. And our judgment, how is that going to spill over into the other areas of work?

Wolf, have you already had experiences like this with your clients?

Yeah, all the time.

Do you have any thoughts?

Well, I'd say it becomes much more easier the longer you work together. Like in the first year working together, it's more, yeah, you should do this. And I was like, okay, we can do pretty much what you alluding to, but we're gonna do a split test. Then I showed them, okay, if we're gonna launch that, you're just gonna flat out lose money. I mean, if you want to do it, that's on you, but I'm not responsible for that. I said, let's. For example, we did it with launching an event. I was like, we did it twice in the past. Last time we lost money, and then we did a different funnel. We printed cash. So it's up to you.

Yeah. Because then you sacrifice your actual quality of work. So, like, for example, the best example for us would always be, like, when clients want to rush the launch timeline of when their actually ads go live. What that means is we have a very specific process that takes about three, like, 21 days to get their ads live. Best case scenario. Right. Sometimes it could take up to four weeks to get it live because the creatives take a little bit longer, the filming process takes a little bit longer, the ideation, the back and forth. Right. And when clients come to us and always try to rush that process, it's never worked in terms of results for them. It's gotten them worse results right out the gate. It's made everyone more frustrated because the timeline's been condensed, which means we have less time to focus on the actual creative strategy, the actual targeting timeline, and more importantly, the actual, like, just launch process itself. Right. So it's at the expense of their results that we have to tell clients, for example, when they come to us. Like there was a client recently that wanted us to basically onboard them that same day when they paid and signed the contract. Like onboarding call, get access to all their stuff and then be able to get them the scripts like basically in the next two days because they're going to go film in a different location because they're on vacation. And like, I was thinking about it and I had to talk to Charlie and I was like, can we do this? Because I'm always like, can we do it right? Like, can we make this work? I'm like, I want to make it work. And then I'm like, and then I talk to them and they're like, no, don't do it.

And the only reason we know that is because we've done it right. It's like we've launched.

It never works.

Yeah, launch clients in nine days. So you condensed a four week cycle into nine days. And it was a horrible decision.

And then not only, but it was a horrible decision not only for the results, but it was also because of their expectations. Now, now, oh, you can do it in nine days. Why did it happen? And that person with that nine days also doesn't take, doesn't take the same responsibility as the person who's followed the process, worked with us through that process to see how it works and ultimately know that this is going to be what we're setting up the foundation for them to scale, it was more like, let's just toss it up because I need this now. They're under pressure and they're causing the pressure to be spilled onto you. And then you're causing yourself pressure. Now it's just, it's just a bad relationship at the very beginning. So the more you sacrifice that standard of work, right. Just to get it off the ground, it's just gonna ultimately be bad for you and the client.

Yeah. Something I would say about like this whole, because I'm a little biased because I'm in client success. It's like, especially with running paid ads, results aren't always gonna be there. Right. Because it's just, it's the ebbs and flows of paid media. So the relationships that you have in your clients, in my opinion, are always gonna be more important than the results. Because for us, results aren't always going to be great. So it's always like that. We're having a good relationship with them, a good cadence of communication to be able to work through some of these issues. Because obviously you guys should all be able to get results for your clients. But having that relationship and a solid foundation with them, with communication and trust to know that, hey, guys, you know, we're dealing with some stuff. Ad accounts not performing as well, but we're working through it. We're keeping you guys in the loop, et cetera, et cetera. As long as you have that good relationship with the client, you'll be able to retain these people for a lot longer than if, like, results are bad. You have horrible communication, they're just gonna leave.

And you also just. Yeah, you just can't be afraid to say it because it's like, if you. If you're afraid to tell them that that's your standard, then that means that you're coming from a place of scarcity, really, because you're afraid that they're going to be leaving as a client, which means that then you're not going to get another client. So then you're just playing this cycle of, like, okay, well, I have to say yes, because they might leave or.

They might not like me all the time. That's always running through my subconscious. Like, I'm just very. I think Cam and I hold ourselves to a very high standard. He's a little bit more like, you guys can respectfully screw off if, you know, we don't like you and you're giving us a hard time. I'm more in the camp of, like, I just see it as a game. Like, I just need to win. Like, I. I hate the idea of losing in any. Any capacity. And, like, that goes with, like, the relationship or even losing the client in general. Like, I just need. Because, like, I'm very. So much in the fulfillment department. So, like, that's really, like, my metric for success and self worth, like, in my clients. Yeah, totally. I take it personally because, like, one.

Of our clients, like, came to us and, like, this is after the first month of working with them, we made like, an extra, like, 40 grand on YouTube to, through organic, like, track through high risk. Like, that was, like, directly attributable. And he comes to us and he's like, you know, he goes to Presley first.

He's like, yo.

Like, you know, the performance fee is, like, kind of a lot lower. And Presley's like, dude, like, I think we, like, should work with them. They have, you know, on it and, like, you know, little. Right. And I get on the phone with him. I was like, yeah. So, like, do you think that the work we did is just not worth it? And he's like, no, no, it's worth it. So then we're Good. He's like, yeah, yeah. I was like, okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Because they'll know if they can push you around with some of that stuff because they'll sense it. And like, we've had the fortunate experience of working with Jay from ethical scaling. One of the things he talks about a lot is like client avatars. So I don't know if you guys are familiar with like, doers, warriors and controllers.

So this is good. This is good.

You should. And I do this. We need to have a better process of like, making the whole team aware of this. But clients are going to come from different buckets based upon the experiences that they've had. Some of them are going to be worriers, meaning, like, they're going to worry about everything. They're always going to be asking you in Slack. They're always going to be asking, what's going on? Hey, what's this? What's that? So you always have to handle these clients differently. And the sooner you can get out in front and identify what type of client this person is, the better that you'll be able to cater to the things that are going to help them feel like they're being taken care of, like the controllers. Again, you know, we've worked with a lot of clients that fit this avatar because a lot of the clients we, you know, especially from the agency side, a lot of these clients are like, you know, they're making millions of dollars a month and so they're controllers with everything that, you know, they're. They're essentially doing in their business. But for us, again, it's all about holding that frame with these people that have high expectations. Hey, you hired us to do our job. Let us execute on the things that we know that we do really well. And then for, for the doers, best type of client, they just do everything when you ask them to do it. No issues, no concern. I'm sure you guys have worked with clients like that where they're a breeze, pay their invoices on time, you don't have to ever worry about anything with them, and you guys are getting great results.

So, yeah, there's doers, there's warriors, and there's controllers. Did you guys get that?

Yeah.

So how many of you guys are like, labeling clients when they come in?

Yeah, yeah.

This is so important. This is why Charlie is working with, like, the client success. And we're growing that department even bigger because, like, we never had that, that classification when a client came in. Yeah, the way you have to communicate with the client, depending on Their avatar is completely different.

Yeah, yeah. And again, the sooner and the more that you do this and the more that you identify what buckets these clients fit into, the better you'll be able to handle the relationships with each of the client. The better you'll be, the more likely you'll be able to get results and the longer that you'll be able to retain your clients because you're able to cater to the things that obviously, you know are going to help them. So.

And then also worriers can become controllers, right?

Yeah.

Because you're not giving them the clarity and the confidence of the path to get the results. So they have to step in now and become the leader. Right. Which is kind of like where, you know, in a different example that's very relatable, like the passive aggressive beta male, Right. And his girlfriend who's like, just wanting him to be the leader. And then obviously the girlfriend has to step up and take the shoes and be the man in the relationship.

Right.

It's kind of like the same thing. It's the worrier going to the controller.

Yeah, yeah. And it's very hard to get, but.

It'S ultimately a response. It's ultimately your fault, Right. As the, As a provider, because you didn't step up and lead and tell them everything's all right, just do the work we told you to do and like, coach them to get the results and say you're on the right path. Right. And then controllers can become worrier, or doers can become worriers. If you're not giving them the clear path and the things they need to do to get the results. You see how it works, right?

Yeah. It's almost like, you know that meme about, like, weak time. Weak men can be hard times. It's like, in this case, you'd be like, you know, doers turn into warriors that turn into controllers, right? Yes.

Yeah.

It's like you don't catch it early enough. Like, before you know it, you got a nightmare client experience.

It's hard to get them back to those other stages too, because now they have all of the experience of, like, what has caused them to become that less ideal client. Yeah, yeah. So the. You have to repair the trust of that relationship and that. I mean, repairing trust takes a lot of time.

So you got it from this. From the moment you sell a client, you have to label them with what you believe, believe their specific avatar is. That way, when you hand it off to fulfillment, whoever's handling fulfillment for your team, whether it's you or your business partner, whatever the case may be, they have the frame and they know what to expect and how to manage this client better.

Yeah. And the last thing that I'll say on like the client success stuff is never be the person that's playing defense. And what I mean by that is you. We always. The way that we approach clients is we never want them worrying about things or not knowing what's going on. So always hyper communicated with them in Slack. So they're never asking us for things. We're always telling them, hey, here's the update, here's how things are going. Here's what we need next from you. So that way they're never. It helps them stay the doers. It helps them be a better client because they're never asking us for things. We're always telling them, hey, here's what's next.

Here's what you can expect playing offense versus defense.

Yeah. Always being super important. Yeah.

Yeah.

Cool.

Cool.

Thank you.

Yeah, of course.

Was that helpful?

This is a good little master class thing. Yeah.

Thank you, sir.

A few different subjects there.

Yeah, yeah.