3 Tips to Find your authentic voice with Rosemary Card of Q.Noor - 018

This is episode 18 of Law and Wit, 3 tips to find your authentic voice with Rosemary Card of QNor. Welcome to Law and Wit, creative counsel for entrepreneurs. I'm your host, Brittany Rettell, mother of 4, entrepreneur, naptime lawyer, and attorney for creative entrepreneurs. I'm here to share inspiration and action so that you can tackle your business blocks and confidently own your business in every sense of the word. Thank you so much for being here. Hi guys, and welcome back. I am so excited for our guest today. We have Rosemary Card. And Rosemary is the CEO and founder of QNoor. And for over a decade, Rosemary, she's been speaking to groups of women of all ages about her experiences as an international high fashion runway and print model. She is a vocal advocate of women's rights and is driven to help them recognize their personal power and responsibility as leaders and agents of positive change through education and self-development. I know that you're going to love to hear all of her bits of wisdom of how she has traveled from being in the fashion industry to now owning her own e-commerce and now a brick-and-mortar retail store. So welcome, Rosemary.

Thank you so much. I'm glad to be here.

Awesome. So we're glad to have you. So tell us a little bit about your start. You know, I mentioned that you got your start in high fashion runway, which just sounds super glitzy and glamorous. So tell us how, you know, a girl who did not grow up in that world came to be there, you know, and kind of what that set you up for.

I, so I started modeling by kind of a weird series of events. I, it all started as an extra in High School Musical, and oh my gosh, with the Zac Efron. Yeah, but back then he like wasn't the Zac Efron, he was just like a kid who was shorter than me, so I was like, well, whatever.

Very true.

But I mean, he was definitely handsome back then too. But, um, so yeah, I got into the fashion industry and there were definitely like glitzy glamorous parts, but then a lot of like ugly, not glamorous parts about the industry.

Right.

Um, and so I was in the industry for about 2 years and then I stopped shortly after I turned 18.

So that's incredible. You were living in New York by yourself as a 16 and 17-year-old.

Yeah. So New York was my home base. I'd be there for a few months, go home for a couple of weeks, then I'd go live in another country or a market, different market for a few months. Um, but yeah, I bounced around for that entire 2 years, um, between New York, Italy, Singapore, and Japan and home in Salt Lake.

Awesome. Wow. So, and I'm sure you have all kinds of stories. So I failed to mention that you are also now a published author as well, All About That. So if people want more info on that story, they, I'm sure they should read your new book.

Yeah, Model Mormon. It's available on Amazon and on my website, keenor.com, if anyone's interested.

Awesome. So it's probably what, like a nanny diaries versus like meets runway model versus Mormon girl.

Yeah, it's actually, so I definitely go into my story, but my The purpose of the book is to help people see that there's no— often within the Mormon Church, there's this idea of a cookie-cutter member. And so I share my story. And in a lot of ways, I fit the cookie-cutter mold in the sense that I'm from Utah. I went to BYU, I served a mission, I worked at the church, I own a temple dress company. I taught at the MTC, all those things, but then in a lot of ways I don't fit the cookie-cutter mold at all. So it's— the purpose of the book is to help people see that, kind of screw the mold and choose however you want to Mormon, and that's totally fine.

Right. So which really goes for just about any group, honestly, you know, is to make sure that you're not, you know, being— you're limiting yourself in terms of a label or your identity or your path, that there are a lot of good ways to be, you know, whatever is important to you, whether that's your faith identity or something else. Totally.

I think any group you're in, there's often kind of a story that we tell ourselves that we have to be a certain way in order to fit in. And I love what Brené Brown talks about a lot is the difference between fitting in and belonging. And I've realized that in my world, that there's a lot of stories that I tell myself again, And I've just decided to like close the book on those stories and just focus on being myself. And then I'm able to find people who accept me for who I am. And it's much more validating to belong and be accepted for who you are than being accepted for kind of a version of yourself that you portray.

Yeah. Oh, I really like that. So, I mean, and we all love Brené Brown and, you know, I mean, she's right up there with Oprah, honestly, with dishing out all those pearls of wisdom. For sure. So, okay, so you, you know, turned 18. And, you know, the— in terms of the, the trends in fashion and probably the ability that you had to articulate and advocate for yourself in terms of your standards and the way that you wanted to work in the industry was probably becoming a lot more difficult. So at that time, you felt like it was— you needed— you wanted to change gears?

Yeah, I mean, so There were a few reasons that led to me leaving the industry. One definitely being that once I was a legal adult, I no longer had the excuse of being a legal child when it came to people asking me to do nude modeling or semi-nude or sheer or anything like that. And so that's something that was really important to me that I didn't participate in. And modeling, as much as I wanted to be a successful model, as much as I really, really try to make that work. I didn't care enough to make that sacrifice, and so it just made sense at that point to walk away.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, you knew, you knew who you were and what you were willing to do and what you weren't.

Yeah, and I just kind of accepted that like this, my standards made me a not a great model. Yeah, like I wasn't able to do a good job at what I that job of being a model was. And that made it really complicated for my agency. It made it really complicated for clients. And so it just was something that I realized, like, why am I forcing this? Like, maybe this isn't what I've been called to do. Maybe I'm supposed to do bigger things than walk really well in a straight line in high heels. Like, maybe there's a chance that I'm supposed to be doing something else with my life. And so I stepped away from that.

And you moved on. So, so where did life take you next, you know, and how did kind of your business story unfold?

So next I went to college, I went to Dixie State University for the first year and a half, and then I went to BYU. I graduated in broadcast journalism and I started working for the LDS Church in the film department doing like mini documentary style films. And I was working full time for them, but I was a contracted employee. And so in 2000, early 2015, because of laws, they announced that contracted employees could only work 3/4 time that year, um, in order to avoid giving us insurance, which is really sweet of them. Um, and so I, I had bills to pay and I needed to work a full-time job. And so I was just trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And, um, I was doing freelance photography, wedding videos, wedding photos, things like that. And so I was just trying to figure out, can I ramp my freelance work up enough to kind of balance out the lack that I will get from the church job? And, um, and I was, you know, prayer is important to me. So I was being prayerful about that. And the idea of starting my own company, something I've always wanted to do since college, um, kind of came back to me and I just had this idea that there was a need within the LDS temple dress market for cute, comfortable temple dresses that women would actually be interested in wearing. And so I honestly just met with someone at the church to make sure that was even allowed, because I didn't know. And then I literally went home and Googled how to start a clothing company. And that's how QNoor started. Early 2015.

That's crazy. I mean, you, yeah, you, you went from a seed of an idea to, you know, checking on market viability and then the, uh, the business school of Google with a running head start.

Yes, absolutely. And I mean, it was tricky because, um, the LDS Church doesn't release any type of numbers. So it wasn't something where I could figure out like market size and what portion I think I could attract and all that kind of stuff. I just had to say, okay, I did my— as much as I could. Like, this is how many missionaries are serving right now. 40% are probably women. All of those women need a temple dress. And I knew how many private companies were already doing it. And so I just thought there's enough of a market to sustain 3 or 4, maybe 5 private other companies. Like, then it probably can sustain one more. And so I'm going to go for it.

No, but I think that's smart. You felt there was an idea that inspired you and you definitely felt pulled in a certain direction. And you mentioned that prayer and having a higher power was being a really purposeful part of that experience. But you coupled that with, in terms of smart research and doing whatever work you could to try to validate the idea and making sure that you were taking advantage of whatever resources you had, even ones that had to be a little kind of sketchy brainstorming and roundabout ways in terms of, you know, what are you really looking at and what kind of market share and probably price point in terms of the two and where are you going to source and all those other questions that come up as soon as you get into fashion and clothing.

Yeah. And I, I'm a really big believer. I know that a lot of people when they have a new idea for a business, they try to like keep it on the DL and they won't talk to anyone about it and they try to get like friends to sign non-disclosures before they talk about it. And I think, yeah, like you do need to be careful to protect your business, but I also think You need to talk to people and to get like honest feedback if they think this is gonna work. And you need people to let you know like, yeah, that is something I would love. And more than just your friends, because often I found your friends are gonna be like, oh, I love that idea, even though they would never put money behind it. And so yeah, I think workshopping it out, essentially brainstorming with people, is a really, really great resource.

Yeah, that's great. Did you use any like formal survey tools or anything, or is it what, just like, you know, like you said, conversations? I mean, you would literally bring it up with anyone you could.

Yeah, I just talked to a lot of people and I was, um, I talked to a lot of friends that were consultants or business owners themselves and just tried to pull knowledge from anyone I could in that sense. And then as far as building my actual product, developing the product, I talked to as many women as I could to try to say like, okay, If you could, like, what is your ideal temple dress? How long is it? Where does it hit you? What does it feel like? What does it need to have? What do you hate about your current temple dress? And so I just talked and talked and talked and talked and talked to people, and then I eventually could kind of come to a few, like, temple dress truths, I guess you would say, about what the, like, vast majority of women were looking for.

Yeah, I mean, you knew, you knew your market and you knew the maxims that were guiding them and their decisions. So, and for those in our audience who aren't LDS, which is totally fine, and maybe aren't familiar with like, what the heck is a temple dress? Do you want to explain just a little bit about how kind of narrow the— your restrictions are in terms of what it can look like?

Yeah, so a temple dress is a very modest, white, simple dress that Mormons wear during like their highest form of religious worship. And And I guess religious worship is kind of like, uh, never mind.

Yeah, it's a ceremonial religious— yeah, you know, yeah, event.

Um, so, um, yeah, and they are long sleeve, long in the hem, high in the neckline. They're like— they're very basic. No beading, no sequins, um, no labels, no loud patterns, nothing. And Um, and just white. And one of the things that I've learned about white fabric is that there are a million shades of white. Yes. And white is actually like the worst, and black, but white's probably the worst color that you want to deal with. Um, because obviously any imperfection shows. Um, there's always, someone will always have another piece of white something fabric. That in their home that they may lay it next to and then feel like, oh, this dress isn't white enough.

Isn't white enough, whatever their version of white is in their mind, you know, the whiteness of white. Yeah.

Double lights. And it, you can't, you can't get it from China. You can't get good white from China because their water and air is too polluted. And so you have to deal with like, they call it gray goods, getting basic gray goods from China. And then, like my fabric, some of them are domestic, but most of them are shipped to Korea where we dye fabric in white in Korea. Um, and then it's shipped to the States. So it is where I manufacture in California. So, um, it was kind of like one of those things that I know that had I known how annoying and hard it was going to be in the beginning, or I probably would have said like, 'Nah, I'm just going to go get another job.' Someone else is hiring and that sounds really fun.

And I didn't know I was going to be dealing with, you know, intercontinental, you know, dyeing of fabric and whatnot. And I mean, the issue with white too is that there's always issues with opacity and making sure that you can't see underneath, which is obviously an issue in a religious ceremony.

Right. It needs to be thick enough where it can't be sheer. But if it's too thick, people are like, 'Oh, this fabric is too thick. I'm getting hot.' Uh, no one wants anything that wrinkles, but they want something that feels really like high quality and nice where often fabrics that don't wrinkle, you literally just can't get that pure white out of it. And they, um, they don't feel great. And, and so it just is this, I always say like, I'm going to develop a fabric that is not sheer, a perfect white, and doesn't wrinkle, and I will become a multimillionaire.

You will be the queenpin of all the white fabric in all the world. Yeah, if you can develop that.

Yeah, it's, yeah, it's kind of a nightmare, that fabric thing is, but it's fine. Every job has it.

Every job has their quirks. So I mean, as you started sourcing, you know, did you already have contacts in the industry, or how did you go about figuring out where were you going to manufacture? And I mean, as you, you know, as you're just saying how it unfolds, it was a much more complicated process than you thought.

Oh yeah, absolutely. So I In addition to the wonderful world of Google, I, like I said, just talked to anyone that I could. And so I talked to a lot of companies that were manufacturing and companies that manufacture for other companies. And eventually a friend of mine, his family company recommended my manufacturer to me. So I reached out to them and, and we initially talked once and I think they were kind of like, oh, this girl has no idea what she's doing, which was very true. And I felt like, oh, I'm too overwhelmed. I don't— this seems like too big of a step for me. And so I didn't really follow up with them for a few months. And then I ended up just going to California and meeting with them. And we got along really well and they have since become like family to me. And they, they have been so, so wonderful to me and so patient and they've taught me so much and we've been through kind of the thick and thin. And it, but it's been a really good relationship. So I'm so grateful for my manufacturers.

That's awesome. So I mean, that's, that's amazing that you, instead of kind of being embarrassed or thinking that you were in too deep of water, you just decided to— I mean, you decided to escalate and go meet them in person.

Uh, yeah, yeah. I just realized, like, we could send fabric swatches and samples back and forth a zillion times, but why not just, like, go talk to them for a couple of hours and figure out if this works? And then I felt like I was really able to kind of communicate to them, like, look, Yeah, I have basically no idea what I'm doing, but you can see that like I'm a hard worker, I'm willing to learn, I'm not going to be a burden to you, I'm going to be a small client at first, but I tried to sell that like one day I'm going to be a big client for you and this will be a worthwhile investment.

Look at you, I mean you're just a natural saleswoman. I mean because no matter what you think that you do sell, I mean you're selling dresses, But you're also selling you and you're selling your idea and your gumption and your grit and getting a clothing company off the ground with no background in clothing. I mean, you didn't go to fashion school, you didn't go to design school or business school or business school, but who cares?

Yeah, my school was like learning how to do a good live shot on the 5 o'clock news.

Yeah, which is an important skill. I mean, obviously, I mean, obviously, you know, you have it, you have a voice for radio. So, and the looks to prove it, because we've seen you on the runway as well.

So, oh, well, thank you.

Um, so I love that. That reminds me of a quote that I found when I was, I was doing my Google stock interview that said that I'm probably not 100% qualified, but in this life, if we wait to be 100% qualified for anything, we're never gonna do it. Um, and I love that. So, you know, what have you said when there were people like these manufacturers at first, or probably even more unkind voices of like, hey, you just don't have the, you know, fill in the blank— experience, age, money, um, you know, capital— to have a business like this, to start a business like this? How do you answer that?

Yeah, you know, I honestly— this might sound cliché, but, um, those— it's never fun to hear those kind of comments, and it can be discouraging. But if for me and my personality, I almost kind of love it because it makes me be like, oh, watch me. Like freaking watch me build this from the ground up with $0. Like without a single loan or money from my parents, like zero investors, zero debt. Watch me build this. And like, is it going to be slow? Yeah. Are there going to be big mistakes? Absolutely. But I just think like, I'm a big believer that we are on this earth to learn stuff and have experiences. And so of course we don't know how to do stuff because we're supposed to like learn new things. And so if we are constantly just doing things that we feel comfortable doing or things that don't push us or stretch us, like, are we really going to ever accomplish a purpose or are we going to become better? And it's just like, no, I mean, it's the same thing for lifting weights, right? If you're always lifting 10 pounds, are you going to get that much stronger? You'll probably get stronger, but not as strong as you could get if you were gradually increasing, right?

That's right.

I honestly don't know anything about weightlifting, but I'm just guessing that's how it works.

But you're selling it. That's the thing, Rosie, you're selling it. But yeah, we all know, no, no pain, no gain. And you know, all those guys that all, you know, those, those tech guys, those summer sales guys at the gym, um, you know, you can't get those gains With a Z. It's gains with a Z, um, unless you're lifting the heavy weights. You've seen those guys, you know who I'm talking about.

Oh, I know them.

You know all about that. So I love it. I mean, watch me, and you know, that's what you say to them, and that's what you're doing, you know. I mean, you're literally saying, I can do this, I can figure stuff out, um, even though there are challenges. So, um, I mean, you mentioned a little bit about, you know, even just finding out how difficult it is to get a white fabric and to get that just right in terms of your clients. Are there any other challenges that you've had come along that you've kind of had to sort through and overcome?

One big challenge that I faced early on was just that no one put temple dresses on Instagram before I started doing that. Like, that was like, no one really would talk about a temple dress. Like, that felt weird and uncomfy. And then I was just like, Well, we're doing it. Like, we are going to freaking do this. And people, like, bought into it. And I don't want to say bought into it in the sense like I tricked them. I just think like people, as I started the conversation, got more comfortable and suddenly people were posting selfies of themselves in their temple dress on their Instagram account and tagging QNoor. And it just became a more common, comfortable thing to talk about. And I loved that. I love that so much.

Um, you created a way for people to connect, um, you know, their faith and something that's kind of, you know, a more private part of people's, you know, uh, religious, uh, and faith beliefs into something that's cute and is share-worthy, really.

Totally. I mean, I just think I lived in Jerusalem while I was in school for 4 months, and the people in that part of the world, like, they wear religion on their sleeve. Like, it's not something they're ashamed of. It's not something they hide. They are very in your face about their religion, and I'm not trying to say, like, we should be in your people's faces about it. I think that's actually kind of rude, but I think you can be comfortable just saying, like, sharing, like, yeah, this is part of my religion. And if you don't think it's freaky, then no one else is going to think it's that freaky either. But if we act kind of weird and shady about it, then people are going to be like, wait, why are you being so sketchy about this thing? Like, so yeah, I mean, maybe I'm more comfortable talking about temple dresses in the temple than most people just because it's kind of my world. But I've realized that like once you just start talking about it, it's not a big deal.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. So, and I think you were, you know, smart in terms of harnessing what social media is doing. And, you know, it's certainly having a moment for that and knowing that, um, you could build, you know, a following and a voice and be able to develop that online and to find your people. So, um, as you started, you know, building your, you know, your brand, um, and I guess I, I'd love to have you explain what QNor means, um, because I think it's a beautiful name and, and it's kind of a unique one.

Yeah, it is unique. Um, when I was trying to just figure out what to call the company, most of my competitors have the word white in their name, and I've heard lots of people say like, oh, where'd you get that dress? Oh, it's white. Is it white da da da or white da da da? Like, they were always getting mixed up, and so I was like, I want nothing to do with that. Um, and so I knew I didn't want to have white in the name. I also didn't want to be always limited to white products. And so I wanted something unique also for SEO purposes that I could quickly rank well with my name. And, um, so like I mentioned, I studied in Jerusalem, and Noor is a very common name in the Middle East. It's kind of like the Jane of the Middle East, I say. And I fell in love with that name. I thought it was really beautiful. And there is a Queen Noor. She is actually an American who married at that time the King of Jordan. He's since passed away, so she's the former Queen of Jordan. And she is just this incredible advocate of women in and outside of the home. She does a ton of humanitarian stuff. And so I've really been inspired by Queen Noor. And Noor is the Arabic word for light. And the idea of light and knowledge really ties well into themes within the temple. So Qnorr was kind of a mixture of all of those things.

That's beautiful. I love that. So I knew a few of those things, but not all of them. And I really like how thoughtful you were in terms of seeing what your competitors were doing and doing something completely different, which, you know, is I, when I talk to my clients and we're either, you know, ideally I talk to people when they're picking a name and they haven't picked one yet and I can kind of help them with some of that because, you know, what you're talking about in terms of differentiation and SEO and making sure that it's not very similar to someone else who sells a very similar product is good in more than one way. You know, it's good because people can find you online. It's also good because you won't be sued for trademark or copyright infringement.

Yeah, that's always convenient to not get sued.

Yeah, exactly. That's always a plus, really, usually, when you can err on that side. And then it ties so much into your brand values. And what you're trying to communicate in your clothing and the way that you connect with the women who are going to wear the beautiful things that you create, you know.

Yeah, it's, it's, I think it was initially, um, one of those things that you kind of picked because it just felt right. And then as the company developed, it just was like, oh, absolutely, this is the name for this company. And maybe it's kind of like naming a kid. Like, as the kid grows up, you're like, of course you are a Brittany, or of course you are a something, like that is of course your name. And that's how it's been for QNoir.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, it certainly fits and it's beautiful. This episode is sponsored by my template shop, CreativeContracts.co, an online store for the legal templates you need to protect and grow your modern creative business. Each of the templates has been tailored to the creative industry and the needs of modern brands and includes color-coded pre-coded fields you can tailor to your particular business with clear and concise directions that walk you the whole way. Stop worrying that your Frankenstein contracts makes you look like an amateur, or worse, that it isn't set up the way you actually do business. Get a polished attorney-drafted contract that clearly spells out the healthy business relationship that you want with those oh-so-important boundaries, and get the legally legit language that protects your bottom line in both time and money. Concerned about copyright ownership, getting beat up by scope creep or unwieldy revisions? You need some confidentiality protection or a website bundle to make sure that your website is legit? Hop on over to creativecontracts.co and use a special discount code for podcast listeners. The code is LAWANDWIT spelled out L-A-W-A-N-D-W-I-T for 10% off. We started in 2015, opened your doors, started selling online next The next year then?

November of 2015, so.

Okay, November of that year. Yeah. And then, so tell us what's happened and changed in the last, just the last few months that's totally upleveled your business.

Yeah, so the first year and a half, or first year or so, I ran Kunor out of the home that I was renting. I lived in one bedroom and then I rented another bedroom that was like my warehouse office space, and it just got to a point that like Kunor needed to grow, but it could not grow in that situation. And so I started using a fulfillment center, which was another company who handled all of my warehousing and shipping and returns and all of that kind of stuff. And I used them for about a year. And they were, they're great people. I just felt like it was so expensive and they were making mistakes that I knew I wouldn't make. And so that was driving me bonkers. Especially because my customers, you buy a temple dress and then you're like set for years. So I really only have one shot with my customers. It's not like a normal clothing company where you can screw up on one order, but next time they order a jumper and they all go smoothly, it's fine. I needed to do really well on the first run so that they would recommend me to their friends. And so that was just getting really complicated. And again, they were very expensive. And then early 2018, they sent me a memo that was just like, addendum to the contract, please send immediately. And I read the fine print and it was like doubling my costs. And I was like, oh, you actually think I'm an idiot.

And good on you for reading your contract and your addendum, girl. I mean, I know this is not your first rodeo. That's the thing of when you've been working in, you know, high fashion and the clothing industry since you were 16, you know to read a contract. But yeah, good heavens, people, this is why you read the contract.

Yeah, I was like, oh, you're doubling my prices? Get real. So in that moment, I just realized like, okay, this was two steps forward. Maybe I need to take a step back now and figure out my next plan. And so in that moment, I thought like, okay, I want to bring shipping back. I want to bring it back in-house, but I need to find this space because it's big enough now that I can't fit it in any home. And I also need to bring on new employees to do the shipping and that I don't want people coming to my home. So I started looking for a warehouse space and then I also thought like, well, I'm always getting emails from customers asking if they can come try things on. And I have always said no because like I don't want people coming to my home and And so I thought like, I should just, I might as well get a space where it makes sense for someone to come and try a dress on. And so I started the search for a, something that could work as both a retail space and a warehouse. And it just all happened really quickly. And I never in a million years when I started QNoir did I want to have a shop or a brick and mortar. But it just kind of made sense, and so I went for it. And it honestly— it has— we've been open for just shy of a month now, and I have loved it, loved it, loved it.

That's awesome. So, um, and your store is located, um, in Draper, isn't it? Or Sandy?

It's in Mill Creek.

It's actually Mill Creek. Oh, okay. Yeah, so which is a cute little area.

It's darling. So just Salt Lake, um, on like 40th South and Highland Drive. And, um, it used to— my space used to be a dog grooming salon.

Awesome.

And I know that my landlord is very grateful that I helped him out with such an upgrade, and it now is a beautiful store.

Yeah, just with all, all of the white clothing and some of the other pieces that you've kind of moved into different directions as well.

So yeah, and we also have a lot of products from other women entrepreneurs. So we have things that I say would be great for like baby shower gifts or wedding gifts, things like that. And 99% of the products come from female entrepreneurs, a lot of local and some international.

Very cool, which again, you know, harkens back to your brand vision and what you're, you know, trying to resonate with your customers and you see that in all those different parts of your product experience and your customer experience.

Yeah, it's been a really fun thing to kind of offer a, you know, having, allowing your customer to personally interact and handle your product is huge. And not all companies are in the place where they can offer that to customers. And so it's been so cool to say like, hey, on a small level, like, you can come and we can offer that to your people. So I've loved it. And I, you know, I'm a really big believer in like shopping local and that like you can do more with your money by keeping it local or giving it to small businesses. And so it's just been a great opportunity to be part of that.

Very cool. So, so now that you've been, you know, up and running for a month, what will you say are different challenges or new challenges you've had in having an actual physical physical store, brick-and-mortar store. And it's not something that, you know, a lot of people have experience with now. You know, a lot— most of us, almost all of us start out online and, you know, we hope to maybe get to that stage. So what are some things people should look out for?

Well, after working for myself and having kind of an e-commerce business for 3 years, I was very accustomed to very flexible hours. And so it's been quite a transition for me to— nope, QNOR is open from 11 to 6, and it's open on Saturdays too. That has been a huge adjustment, but a good one. And so that is a change. And I think just like interacting with people and honestly, like this is going to sound fake or cheesy, but there have only been positive changes. It's been so fun to see people try a dress on and say, oh, I actually need a medium, and they didn't have to spend like $15 in shipping and 2 or a week to figure that out. Like, they just figured it out. And even when people come in and try on a dress and say like, huh, it's not for me, I love it because I'm just like, oh, you didn't have to pay for shipping. I didn't have to like pay someone to send that to you or process the return. Like, we were just able to figure that out and it cost us nothing. So I love that element of it.

Very cool.

It's been really great, yeah.

And now you've, you know, among that you now have people who are helping out in your store. So now you are a boss instead of just being a one-woman shop. How has that been, that transition?

Oh, it's been really great in the sense that I love like having people that I talk to throughout the day.

Being a one-woman shop can be very lonely. It's very isolating.

The first week though, I will say I had to just like sit in my basement in the quiet because I was like talking to so many more people than I was used to and it was so overwhelming. Um, but yeah, it's been really fun to kind of bring other women in and younger women in my case and kind of train them and help them see how things work. Um, and it of course has its challenges as well. There's a learning curve. But it has been so far so good.

Yeah, in terms of translating that vision and where you want to see things go. Where are you? What are your goals? Where do you want to see QNor go in the future?

Oh man, the amazing thing about QNor is I feel like it's always changing and I never see the change coming. So honestly, when people ask that, it sounds like I don't have goals for QNor. But I just feel like I don't know what it's going to, it's going to do. We're going to keep selling temple dresses and we're going to keep adding new products. Like we're adding nightgowns and house dresses and things like that. Um, but there are like things as far as events and education that I'm really interested in, um, adding to kind of like the QNUR brand. And I love the idea of like bringing in powerful women as speakers that people can come in and hear. And just education, it's so important to me, and I think it's so important to feeling just happy. Learning new things, I think, makes people feel happier. And so I would love to include that more in the QNOR umbrella.

Awesome. Yeah. Well, and it sounds like it'd be, it'd be a good fit for you and I'm sure a good fit for people who've grown to love what you offer in your store and your voice, you know, and who enjoy, you know, your thoughts in terms of women empowerment and education and balancing that and still being, you know, a woman of faith and how those are not mutually exclusive.

No, not at all. I feel like in fact they are completely, they go hand in hand. Definitely.

So, well, and as you've talked about expanding to other areas, um, so I'm reminded that, um, uh, we've gotten the chance to work a little bit in some parts of your business. Um, so I wondered if you could comment just where, you know, how and when you decided to pull legal on to as parts of your team as you were building your business. Because I know a lot of people come to me with that question sometimes, knowing, well, how do I know when it's the right time to hire someone or to need help? And How did you get a feeling for that when it, when it was a good time to reach out and look for someone to help with some aspects of your business?

Um, I've learned that through some tough experiences that it's better to have legal involved before the crap hits the fan. You know, it is better to have, um, to take precautionary steps, um, rather than just waiting for something to go wrong.

Clean up on aisle 7.

Yeah, yes, absolutely. Um, and so, um, yeah, I think that's when we started. We started doing copywriting the name, um, and also just as a way to, um, protect myself in case I have made a mistake and I was infringing on someone else. I, I want to make sure that I protect myself from some lawsuit showing up at my doorstep. Um, just because, um, it is a small business and like I said, I have built like 100% bootstrapped this. And so a huge lawsuit could ruin the company. Um, and I just feel like nothing is worth that. Um, and so spending money right now to protect the company and to avoid those huge problems in the future, um, it's worth every penny in my mind. And I didn't mean that to sound like a total sales pitch for you.

No, but we'll keep it, um, you know, I guess if, if, you know, if you like that kind of thing. Um, but thank you. If you're into not losing your entire company, if you're into that, if that's your kind of thing, keeping your money that you earn, you know, with all of your hard work and blood, sweat, and tears.

Yeah, not for everyone, but not for everyone.

No. So, and yeah, and that's, um, and I mean, like we talked about, you set yourself up in such a great position because you did pick a really unique name when you started building your brand. So even though I, you know, got brought on later in your process and you said, hey Brit, uh, maybe we should look into copyright and trademark and tell me about that, um, it was a really slick process for you because you picked something that was different and distinct, um, and that wasn't similar to something else or sounded like something else similar. Um, you know, a lot of people make that mistake, and that makes it so much easier for people to start to recognize and build you as a brand. It's hard work at first because no one knows what Qnorr means, and no one can say it, and no one, no one can say it, and no one can spell it. But, but, but once you get—

they got it.

Well, exactly. Once they got it, they got it. And no one— and once they have it, no one is going to think about anything else except for you. They're going to think of your cool temple dresses and your name, and they're going to be one in the same.

Yes, that's what we like.

That's what we like. That is what we like. So, okay, well, to wrap up, I kind of asked if you had like 3 tips for kind of finding your authentic voice, kind of, um, as kind of a female entrepreneur, and especially as someone who's working in fashion and clothing industry. You know, we social media nowadays, we, we get, we get a lot of bad rap and we get, you know, a lot of discussion about being authentic and being real and vulnerable, um, and trying to work on that and how important that is to share that part of you, uh, and your brand story with others to really connect. Um, do you have any thoughts about that as someone who's really had some vulnerable and brave moments in your life, um, and who's built a really successful brand around that?

Yeah. Um, I am, I want to say, oh, I know who said this. Okay. So one of my favorite quotes that's really been like a mantra for me is from David Sedaris. He's a great radio personality person. And he has this quote, and I wish I could remember it word for word, but I can't. And it essentially just says, the thing that makes you most uncomfortable, um, to say is what makes you the most relatable, or like what most people would relate to. Um, and so yeah, it's been a really like a guiding star for me in a lot of ways that, um, the topics that feel the scariest to talk about, especially in my very niche market, niche audience, um, there are some taboo or less I've just talked about things, and it's when I talk about those things that I connect with people on the most important level. Does that also mean that some people are offended or upset or annoyed? Totally. But my company in a lot of ways is an extension of me. Like, I am a big part of QNOR, and I've just had to accept that, like, I'm not for everyone. Maybe Qnorr on Instagram isn't for everyone, and that's okay. And it's been really freeing to just kind of like stop worrying about the number. And I know not all companies can do that. And it of course is important to grow your presence on social media. But I realized that I didn't, I don't feel like sales for my company were really correlated to how many followers I had on Instagram. And so I just kind of like gave up chasing the constant growth. Do I love seeing growth? Totally. Like, that's, that's great. Um, I would never like say, oh, I'm sad I gained 100 followers. Like, that's never the case. But, um, I'm not going to spend time doing or worrying about things strictly for the sake of gaining new followers. Um, it just, it doesn't correlate to sales for me. Yeah.

And to a success. So no, I like that. I mean, I think— I mean, I think you gave us our, our 3 right there. You know, the things that make you— it can be make you the most uncomfortable are usually the most relatable. That you should recognize that your brand is not for everyone, and that's the way it should be. And really, when you can find a way to niche down and find that authentic, you know, part of yourself that's shared with other people, it will resonate more with others. And, you know, not to confuse vanity metrics with success. Because they're not the same.

No, they're not. Like, I've kind of had an eye-opening experience where I learned about some of the numbers or sales of a certain company that just seemed to be blowing up on Instagram, but they're really struggling. And I was like, huh, okay, well, like, I'm okay with my number that I've been at for who knows how long. Like, that's okay. Sales are still growing and the company is just getting stronger, and this is working for me.

Mm-hmm, exactly. It's working for you. You know, when you approach it— yeah, it's a happier way to, to, you know, move forward. Yeah, so you're not crying under your desk if people—

I do want to say, like, I— numbers— I'm in it. I'm in a privileged place. Like, I wouldn't have said this 3 years ago, you know what I mean? Like, I've reached a place where I have enough of a, like, a foundation where I'm able to feel comfortable, but even a year ago, that wasn't the story. You know, I was fighting for every follower. I like to say, like, I won every follower in a fistfight. Like, it was a lot of work to get where I am today. And so I don't want to— I know it's easy, or what am I trying to say? I know I've sat in panel discussions or things like that where I'm hearing these people of big companies just be like, oh, actually, I don't worry about numbers. I'm like, of course you don't. Have a million followers, like, you've arrived, freaking—

of course you don't. But those are us still trudging up the mountain, uh, aren't in your same position, Kingpin.

Totally. So I just want to express that, like, numbers are important and that, like, getting your name out matters. And it is such a brutal battle, and I don't want to discount or be like, oh, I don't really care about numbers. Like, I cared a lot about numbers for a lot of days and spent a lot of time what I call trolling and like drawing people into the brand. Um, probably like so many hours of 3 years just gone on Instagram. So I just want to put that out there that like I feel that pain.

You have, you have walked and trudged the trenches of Instagram, girl. You have put in the hours. Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, you have, you know, but you've, you've vanquished it. You've, you've come out the other side. So Yeah, that's great. That's the success story. Yeah. Awesome. So, well, do you have any parting wisdom for those creative entrepreneurs out there and especially people who might be trying to get started on e-commerce online and who are wondering if they just don't know enough? What would you say to them?

I would say you don't and oh well.

Put that on a pin cushion. No.

You literally don't, but oh well. It's probably better that way. It's ignorance is bliss in a lot of ways. And I would say do something different. I see a lot of companies popping up that are just kind of remakes of things that already exist. And like, yeah, that's a tactic. That's a business strategy to say like, clearly this is a successful market. This company is thriving. I could kind of remake this company with my own name and do something similar and take a share of that market. But I just think like find something that makes your company unique. Even if you're making a similar product, there's got to be something about your company that's different because you got to have a reason for why people should come to you. I obviously was not the first one to make temple dresses. I do feel like I'm kind of one of the first ones to make a cute one, but You are.

I mean, sorry, not sorry. There are other great, you know, dresses out there. There's, there's something for everyone. But, you know, if you are a cute 21-year-old girl just fresh off her mission, um, then you're gonna get—

part of the market was kind of getting ignored. And so what makes QNoor different is not the, like, not the actual product of what it is. It's that I'm specifically going after a part of the market that was getting ignored, um, and just kind of being told like, ah, deal with it. So that's what makes me different, and I feel like that's what has been the key to my success. And so I think like, if you are going to start like another company that there's lots of other similar companies, at least figure out something that makes you unique.

If you're making baby bows, then God bless you, we wish you all the best.

Because I was literally going to say baby bows, and then I didn't. You're like—

and not to throw shade, because there are some really cute baby bows companies out there. Like, not in all seriousness, but I'm just saying there, there, there's a lot on that playing field. We may want to just take a look back and see if there's something else, some other niche that needs to be filled.

Okay, well, and so I carry some baby bows from a company, they're handmade in Australia, and in the store, but they look different than the zillions of other baby bow companies out there. So I think Yeah, they found something that people weren't doing, and that to me is a selling point. So I just think like, if you're going to do a baby bow, that better be a freaking unique baby bow.

It better be you, you know.

I want that baby bow. If it's unique, I want it. And I don't even have a baby, but I'm going to sell it to people with babies for you.

Rosie, Rosie will shill that baby bow for you. So get it to her. She will put it on her beautiful white shelves, um, all styled in her lovely shop and she will make it happen for you. So, well, this has been such a delight to have you. Okay, if people want to find out more about you and all the stuff— your, your store, your book— where can they find you?

Okay, so everything can be found or linked to on qnoor.com. Q-N-O-O-R.com. Qnoor.

Make it happen. And remember, it's about the beautiful Queen of White.

Yeah, yes, Queen of White, Queen of Light, it's all good stuff.

Love it, love it. So thank you so much, Rosemary, for, uh, Rosemary, for having, coming on today. We just, I just, I love this, and you guys will love her too. So please follow her, um, give her some love on Instagram, um, and let her know how much we appreciate her sharing all of her nuggets of wisdom today.

Well, thank you so much for having me.

Okay, didn't you guys just love Rosemary? Um, I just think fabulous. So I've been trying to get her on for a while, and she's a busy woman. Obviously you can tell she's doing a lot of things, but I'm really glad she was able to join us today and share just so much of her super interesting story, the journey she's been on, the way that she's been able to harness and pivot and use her talents in lots of different areas, and still feels curious and excited and eager to keep on helping herself build her business and also help others along the way. So So, please check her out. And if you've liked what you've heard here on the podcast, please subscribe. I would love that. Or share, and/or share with a friend. Not mutually exclusive. But if you've been enjoying listening to these interviews and also to kind of the legal tips that I intersperse along the way, please, sharing is caring, and reach out to someone who you think could benefit from either this episode or something else that you've listened listen to on Lawn Wit. I'd really appreciate it. So I'm still just a one-woman shop running this operation, and I love the podcast, but I'd love it even more if it can reach out and help more people and be a useful tool for them as they're trying to build their creative business and be a more confident business owner, no matter what stage in it they're at. So, um, and if you also get some chance to leave a review, I would also appreciate that. So I know I'm a pushy broad today, all of the things, but I think you guys can handle it, so I'll just leave it at that. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you want to see the full show notes, go to BrittanyRattell.com/18, as in episode 18, and that's what you'll find. I always post a transcript and show notes and any other links that we have. They'll be on that website page, but they'll also be in the show notes wherever you're listening to on the podcast, however that shows up in your player. And with that, I'll sign off and we'll tune in next week, guys. Thanks so much.