Becoming a More Mindful Entrepreneur with Kim Christenson of Talk Wordy to Me + Loom Journals - 39

Law and Wit, Episode 39: Being a More Mindful Entrepreneur with Kim Christiansen of Talk Wordy to Me. Welcome to Law and Wit: Creative Counsel for Entrepreneurs. I'm your host, Brittany Rettell, mother of 4, entrepreneur, naptime lawyer, and attorney for creative entrepreneurs. I'm here to share inspiration and action so that you can tackle your business blocks and confidently own your business in every sense of the word. Thank you so much for being here. Well, hello, Lawn Witters, and welcome back. I am so excited to introduce our guest today. So I have on Kimberly Christensen, also known as Talk Wordy to Me, and she is a freelance writer, journalist, and a book-loving mama. She shares book recommendations, writing prompts, and articles on motherhood and mindfulness online at Talk Wordy to Me and is a regular contributor on KSL Studio 5. She loves using social media and technology for good, and she writes and speaks and talks about these issues a lot. She's currently working on a novel inspired by her visit to a picturesque English village, and I've actually gotten a chance to see some of it because that's exactly how cool I am. And she also just launched— is one of the co-founders of Loom Journal. So that's that really cool new parent-child journal that fosters mindfulness and encourages connection and development with kids, which I've also talked about on my stories a bit because I have one and I absolutely love it. It's adorable. So welcome, Kim, to Lawn Wit.

Thank you. I'm honored to be here. I just love you and your podcast, and I'm excited for our conversation.

Thank you. Thank you so much for being on here. So, um, and you can go ahead and keep, you know, just rinsing and repeating that, texting that to me every day, you know, if you don't mind.

So no problem.

It's maybe part of that mindfulness. Um, I, I like to hear things and the nice thoughts that come out of your mind and that fill me up. So I think that's a really good, good use of that term.

So yeah, we could make this a collaborative thing if you can send me something back too. We could really make these affirmations.

Exactly, exactly. Make them, make them happen. Yeah. Um, so, you know, you're obviously multi-passionate, multi-talented girl. You do a lot of great things really well. Um, but I kind of wanted to talk today, um, you know, part of your work in mindfulness. And because I think that's really, um, that's really cogent and topical for entrepreneurs, but also some of your work that you do in writing and using words and how we can do that better in our business. So give us a little bit of your origin story. So how did you get involved with all things words/mindfulness?

Yeah, good question. So it started when I was very little. My mom said I was trying to write words and draw stories as soon as I could hold a pencil. Then I went into second grade and you know those teachers that just influence your life forever? Miss Lewis was that for me. She gave me, even after, she always told me I had a gift for writing and even after I moved on to third grade, she gave me a little blue spiral notebook and said, "Keep writing stories and bring them to me." And I did. This was a teacher who had plenty else to do, yet she encouraged me and at such a young impressionable age, she told me I was a writer, so I believed I was a writer. Credit Miss Lewis at Peruvian Park Elementary for that.

But bless her. Bless the Mrs. Lewis's of the world.

Yes, the Mrs. Lewis's of the world, because there are so many. But they're, they're so special. Anyway, so I just always, as long as I can remember, have loved writing and creating stories. And I wrote lots of little books in school, and I was always on the school newspaper. I started some school newspapers. And then after college, I started working for a publisher and I wrote book backliners and helped market books. And then I worked for a magazine and was an associate editor there and have since just had a bunch of freelance projects. And, um, I did some journalism in school, majored in English. It's just all been about words. And there's been other things that I've followed and chased, like I did acting for a little while, um, I was a yoga instructor for a little while, but it all comes back to words and writing. That's my real passion.

That's, you know, when it comes down to your nest on the inside, that's there. So, which is thus why you have one of the coolest, you know, blogger names ever of Talk Wordy to Me, which when we first met, gosh, was it a couple of years ago? And you handed me your card, I was like, well, obviously we're going to be friends. I mean, this girl.

And I, just from talking to you, I'm like, oh, she's witty, she's intelligent, she's fun. Yeah, it was friendship at first sight.

Exactly, exactly. We got it. We had the mind meld for sure. Well, and I love that you connect, that there are so many things that you like to do and are still involved with, but it does stem from just understanding what your love is and what your passion is. I know that especially because you do work and you help people understand and develop their own practices of mindfulness, that it's something that you think about a lot in terms of what are you doing with your time and what your passion and and what do you feel called to do and how exactly and how that all fits into, you know, your everyday life. So I know that you're kind of a busy mama too. So, you know, how have you, you know, juggled some of that? I know that we don't like to hear the word balance or that's always kind of done, you know, tongue in cheek with an eye roll. It's like, okay, who really has balance? But I know even just the other day you were talking about this on your post and you on your feed and you got a lot of great discussion from people talking about, chasing their dreams and also chasing babies. And yeah, I would just love to hear some of your thoughts as you've been kind of thinking and, you know, distilling what others are saying about that as well.

Yeah, definitely. It's been so good to have that conversation going because so many people relate to that and it's on people's minds a lot, especially right now. Right now it's during the holidays and people are feeling overwhelmed and pulled in a lot of different directions. And so One thing that you mentioned, balance, and one thing that I've learned is that balance can become just another form of perfectionism. And it's not, we're not seeking balance necessarily. I think we're seeking to understand that things will be imbalanced and just trusting ourselves to put our effort and time into the things that are important at that time. Because it'll change. What's important will change. And I feel like when you feel— when you talk about feeling balanced, what you're really feeling is acceptance of your life being out of balance, if that makes sense. So you're letting go, you know, and you're accepting what things are, and that's what balance is. But I prefer the word wholeness and feeling whole. Women don't like to feel fragmented. It's just, I mean, no one does. But I think when we get this feeling of overwhelm and going, going, going, it's because we feel pulled in so many different directions. And that's why mindfulness has been so huge for me because I do have passions and ambitions and, but in order to do them with any amount of sanity, I have to be able to slow down and really be purposeful in where I spend my time. And in my thoughts and where I'm letting those go. So that's why, that's why mindfulness has been so huge for me.

Especially that. I love what you said about that. We're, you know, we're not really seeking balance, but we're seeking to understand, um, and understand ourselves and understand, um, and then understand and then accept, you know, and then let go and be in a place where we've known ourself and we've done the work enough that then we can let go of the things that we need to let go and be okay with that and sit with that and not try to control all, you know, all those balls in the air.

Yes, and one thing that has helped me do that is obviously it involves a pen and paper, but sitting down and writing the things that are important to me because sometimes we get confused and we're like, wait, is that important to me? Oh, I've got to make homemade cupcakes for the bake sale because it's important, right? No, it doesn't have to be important to you. Write down the things that are important to you as a mom and as a woman and protect those things. Maybe write down some things that are not important to you. Maybe you thought they were, but they're really just important to your mother-in-law or to your neighbor or someone else.

Like the PTA or something. Yeah. It's, it's sometimes it's just an easy to do that exercise by crossing out and thinking what you know is not important to you than what it is. You know, if that's an easier way to start. And then to start to winnow down. Yeah.

Yeah. Because then you're choosing things to let go of so that when that comes up again and you feel that like, oh, I'm not volunteering to be room mom, you know, you don't need to worry about that because you've already decided that's not where you're spending your time and energy. You may not be room mom, but maybe like me, I read to my kids every day. Like that's what something I am doing, but I'm not, I can't go into the classroom very much and some moms do and that's, Amazing. And we need that. We all need what we need, but we have to become okay with letting some things go and realizing that we can do anything we want, but we can't do everything. Yes.

Amen. Gosh. And that there's always a quid pro quo. Are you saying yes to something is saying no to something else? And not to lie to ourselves as if we can always continue to answer with yeses and that there won't be some sort of cost.

Exactly. Well said. Yeah, it's always a trade-off and you just have to— it's not like— and people get so caught up in, oh, is it right or is it not? Well, how about look at it as in, what am I trading? Because it's probably— they're probably both right, both of these decisions. Deciding to pursue something in addition to motherhood, do I do it or not? Well, it's not like it's right or wrong. It's what can you do and what are the trade-offs you're willing to to negotiate and be okay with. And you talking about that, about the, you know, saying yes to something is saying no to someone, something else, and vice versa. Essentialism is one of my favorite books.

Yes, me too. Yeah.

Yes, it reminds me of that. I feel like every person needs to read that.

Because priority, guys, is guess what? It's single. Priority, one, one thing. So you can't have 10. Yeah, you know, yeah. Then this reminds me, yeah, I mean, Alison, Alison's show just had her podcast about this was talking about like, oh, well, this is important to me. I'm sure that is, but it's just a reality. You can't have 10 things or 5 things that are all super important to you because sometimes some of those are going to be in conflict. So you really, you need to be, you need to do the work of figuring out what it is and be honest with yourself and not, again, like you said, let other people's priority or their agenda or their feelings on it influence it. That's fine. People can have priorities and they can, or feelings, and they can share those with you. But those are opinions. Those aren't facts. And they're just describing the circumstances, that doesn't really describe what you've come to terms with those things.

That's right. Yeah, and we all just— we're all doing our best. We all just want to live our best lives and I'm trying to find this quote that someone just posted. We'll see if I can find it or not. I love quotes, just another form of words that I love, but essentially it was just that it was we're all trying to live expressive lives that are expressive of who we are and what's important to us. That's going to look different on everyone, but we need to find that for ourselves.

So, no, that's beautiful. So, um, okay, well, you know, before we get too much more, I want to kind of have you give a definition of what mindfulness means because I feel like it's something that we talk about more. Certainly, I would think, like, if there was a word for 2018 or the 2017-2018, it might be one of them. At least it would be in the running, because it's something that we talk about certainly a lot more than we used to. But I think it kind of does have a changing ephemeral definition in terms of what does that mean or what does that practically look like for someone who's not a Buddhist, who's not doing Zen breathing on the cliff of a mountainside or at some like ashram somewhere, you know? What does that mean in my minivan with the Cheeto dust on the floor where we're late to preschool again? Where's the mindfulness in that? Okay. Hypothetically, purely hypothetical.

Of course. I mean, of course. Yeah. Well, and I love that you asked that because that's where I come from. I'm not a Buddhist monk myself. I'm just a mom winging it. So when I teach people about mindfulness and in my mindfulness book, it's mom to mom. It's not like some expert coming down and saying, this is the true meaning of mindfulness. So I whittled it down to one word for you and it's awareness. That is all mindfulness is. It's awareness. I feel like in our day and age, I feel like a grandma saying that, kids these days, but we really, we go on autopilot a lot and we have these amazing apps and this amazing technology that takes the thinking out of it for us. It's so, it's easier than ever to tune out. So mindfulness and why it's so important for us to learn it and practice it today more than ever is because it's instilling that awareness back into our lives that we've forgotten about. Mindfulness isn't like this new trend, even though it's a buzzword now. Mindfulness is in each of us already. It's not like it's some new thing you have to learn. I mean, to a degree, but really it's just refamiliarizing yourself with yourself and with the things that that help you slow down and feel like yourself and feel whole. So it's just bringing back awareness into what you do and into what you think. Mm-hmm.

I like that, you know, bringing back in that it's not something new. It simply is paying attention to what you already are, but that may be getting, as we talked about, being fragmented or lost, you know, in terms of outside influences. So would you say that the reason why we probably need mindfulness or to be thoughtful more about mindfulness is because it's kind of the opposite of technology or it's, it's an unfortunate byproduct of the use of technology and the way we do in our modern lives?

Yeah, I definitely think it's something we have to add back in because it was lost. So, um, yeah, technology has made it really easy for us to tune out of the present moment and to tune into something else. So mindfulness is the opposite of disconnection, which we actually, when we're connecting all the time to devices and whatnot, we're disconnecting from other things. We're disconnecting from ourselves, from ourselves, from intuition and the people around us. So mindfulness teaches you to be fully present in a moment. Or situation or with a person. And instead of being caught up in this technology or, or in the future or something in the past, you are, you're learning to be present in the now because the, the present moment is really the only place that exists. And it's not to get all like Eckhart Tolle on you, but yeah, it's the, you know, yeah, the Right, and Eckhart Tolle, who's an amazing teacher on and leader in living in the present, he wrote The Power of Now, which is really a mind-blowing book. My brain hurt afterwards, but it was, it was mind-blowing in the best way. And he says, unease, anxiety, tension, stress, worry, all forms of fear are caused by too much future and not enough presence. Guilt, regret, resentment, grievances, sadness, bitterness, and all forms of non-forgiveness are caused by too much past and not enough presence. So the answer to all this anxiety, this depression we feel from ruminating on the past or the future, is presence, being more present. And this is— obviously there's a place for other methodology, but meditation and mindfulness have been successfully used in so many cases of post-traumatic stress disorder and a lot of mental disorders that we're seeing so rampantly today. Anxiety and depression and ADD. Mindfulness is— it seems like oversimplified. People are like, no, I can't just take a minute to meditate and then my problems are gone. I mean, it isn't quite that simple, but it is— it can be. It's It really is so powerful and can go a really long way to helping you live the life you want instead of just letting life happen to you. Mm-hmm.

Oh, I like that. Living the life you want instead of life just happening to you.

Yeah.

So, and you know, what do you think has been the interplay that you've kind of explored in terms of mindfulness and creativity as someone who, you know, is trying to be more mindful, is teaching others to be mindful, and yet also, you know, as you mentioned earlier, enjoys pursuing pursuits of creativity, and especially in terms of writing and, you know, um, the written word and its creativity.

Yeah, so mindfulness and writing are so connected to me because when you're writing, it forces you to slow down. It's mindfulness in and of itself. You have to stop, you have to think, you kind of have to quiet the voices around you and just let it flow out. And so for me, writing is a very mindful practice, especially journaling. And that's why Loom journals, and you know, I'm so passionate about journaling because it's something, especially handwritten journaling, I will always be old school about that because when you're putting pen to paper instead of, you know, looking at a screen, I'm more able to write for myself instead of thinking of, you know, my Instagram community, or, you know, other people writing for someone else, it, it kind of adds a filter to it. That's great.

So, no, it's true. I mean, they've actually— they've done some studies, and some people who write their exams, um, have a better— you know, they, they actually score better in terms of just being able to synthesize the knowledge. So, um, and they sometimes would quote that because there are some people who, who stood by that in law school who actually wrote their exams in like old-school blue books. Um, I was not on that train, especially because I have absolutely horrible handwriting. So I was worried that my professors wouldn't be able to write it. But there was a couple in my class who were like old school who would write it out because they swore that it helped them just to— they'd have to think about what they were doing in their head and they would practice like that. That's how they would take notes and that's how they would do their exam.

So yeah, there's something to it, definitely. And yeah, I mean, I think of handwriting too. I feel like our kids aren't going to have— they're going to have horrible handwriting because they don't write. Right. And so with the Loom Journal, for example, or just journaling in general, like actually teaching them to write words, like it helps them process it like you said and involves more parts of the brain or different parts of the brain. So yeah, writing and mindfulness are hand in hand for me. And just this morning, I'm— I mean, I try and write pen to paper every day, but it doesn't always happen. But I've been feeling overwhelmed lately and today I did it. And it just brings so much clarity when I write out my thoughts. And for me, journaling isn't like, here's what happened today. I don't really care to necessarily write all that down, although that's fine and there's value in that. But for me, it's writing through my thoughts. And I hope when my kids read my journals, they'll find clarity in their own lives from reading some of the things that I wrote and some of the things that I worked through. So yeah, writing and mindfulness.

Are—

go hand in hand for me.

Oh, I like that. Yeah, so I think it's—

you're—

it's so true in terms of just, um, being able to make space for thinking about thoughts, and especially having some sort of physical practice that's attached to it, like writing. Because when you're involved with writing, you can't have space for anything else. You have to decide what's the one voice that's going to come through, what are the words going to come through on the paper, and you have to quiet the rest of them down. So, so if people, you know, are interested in maybe reconnecting to writing, if say maybe, maybe they do it for some of their job and maybe they don't, but they're looking to improve it for, you know, a host of reasons, either for their own mindfulness or just to improve, because copywriting is really important. And even though we have a lot of different, you know, venues and the way that we market and advertise and sell our goods has changed, still being able to have, you know, captivating language has not, you know, that stayed the same. Do you have any advice for someone who's trying to rekindle or improve that skill of theirs?

Oh, definitely. So back to journaling, I credit journaling. I have 35 journals that I filled up since the time I was 5. My mom started journaling with me and I would, I would say things and she would write it down for me before I could write, but then continued that tradition. And I'm so grateful for that because my journaling skills have made me a writer and So in order to improve your writing, you write, that's all. It doesn't even matter where you start or what you write. I would start by writing in your journal, just observing things. Take a book or journal with you in your purse, in your car so that you can write thoughts that come to mind. And that's when I was studying at BYU, I was studying English in my creative nonfiction class. My professor who I just adore, he told us, he's like, "Hey, day one, you just need to start observing. You need to start observing what's around you and writing about it. Don't try and make it fluffy and fancy or try and interpret it or analyze it. Just write what you see, write what you know." And that's where everyone can start. That's a place everyone can start.

It seems simple, but just because things are simple doesn't mean that they're not good advice. Just write. And I like, um, I really like that advice of don't try to be in the editing phase because that's a completely different skill than writing. Um, you know, don't try to interpret or rehash, but just write, just get pen to paper and start writing. Um, and it's bound to get better.

Yes. And when, when I help people with editing, people, I, that's something I do freelance-wise and people send me stuff and they're just like, oh, I just can't write. It's just not good. The best material I get from people is when they don't think about it or try and edit it or try and fit it into a box. When they just send me, like for example, I've gotten some content from a blogger and she sent me, she sent me things before and you know, I fixed and edited, but then one day she sent me something, she's like, this is the most raw, like unedited thing I've ever sent, sorry, it's gonna be so much work for you. I'm like, no, this is the best thing you've ever sent because it's authentic and because you didn't sit and edit it, and you just let it flow out of you. And people worry about, oh, I'm not a good writer. I'm like, it's not really about being a good writer or not. It's just expressing yourself. So if you can be true to what, what those feelings are and expressing those, that's all you need to be a writer. The grammar and all that stuff, that's so secondary to being a good writer. It's just being unafraid and to express your true self and your true thoughts.

Oh, I like that. Yeah. It's just being unafraid to express your true self and having the courage, really. I mean, that's what it takes. You gotta have the gumption of hearing what's inside of you and letting it out and putting it for real into words.

Yeah. Some of the best writing I've ever read is horribly written in terms of structure or grammar. It's horrible. But that doesn't matter. It's the heart of it that matters. Yeah.

And you can't fake that. You can't fake the heart.

You can't. That's something you can't fake for sure.

Yeah. That's great. So, okay. So that's, you know, one tip is to just to write. And so, you know, but what if people say, well, you know, but what I'm interested in writing in is very different than what I'm journaling. You know, say I, you know, I am trying to sell something online. You know, say I have some sort of baby product that I'm trying to sell and I'm trying to do copy about that or some sort of online course. How do I learn how to do better copywriting, or how do I make sure that my voice is really describing what I'm offering and reaching the right people?

Yeah, good question. Okay, so the best teacher is imitation. So I'm not— okay, I get really up in arms when people copy my words. People think, oh well, everyone can write, so if I copy what you wrote, who cares? I'm like, I care. I care. Hands in the air.

That's one for team caring. Thank you.

You steal my words, I'm like, that's the same as, that's my creative work. You know what I mean? Like if you, it's the same to me as if you're stealing someone's, you know, design or anything else creative where we think, oh, well you can't steal that. You can't steal writing.

Exactly. You actually can. And that's copyright infringement. And if that happens, then you should be giving me a call. So.

Put it down, Brittany.

Yeah, in addition to just being a douchey move, guys, okay? It's unethical and it could also be illegal, okay?

People have even told me, I just copied and pasted your caption. I'm like, no, no, that's not flattering.

No, it's not.

Let me help you write your own. But anyway, that's a whole other topic. But with that said, I mean imitation as in watching what other people do who are doing it well. If you have a baby boot company and you want to sell those baby boots, you look at other companies that have similar communities. How are those people talking to their people? What are the posts that are getting the most interaction? What, you need to watch what other people are doing and fashion your own work after them. And then soon enough you will find your own voice. Writing is very much about voice and consistency. So for me, I'm, I think if you're building a brand, um, and we're talking about online and you're writing, you know, content to help sell that product, you sometimes, people with writing, they want to be really professional, which is good in some circumstances, but if you're trying to talk to another mom, mom to mom, you need to be in that place. And you need to imagine, sometimes I just imagine that I'm talking to a friend and I say my writing out loud and that can be huge. People often will just work on the writing and look at the screen, but you need to read it out loud to see how it feels. And your writing will become so much better if you start reading your writing. Out loud.

Oh, that's awesome. I was just talking to, I just interviewed Anna Is the Worst and she gave almost the exact same advice in terms of like read it out loud and if that's not what you would send to a friend on a caption, then why are you saying it if that's how you talk to your audience? Yeah. Yes.

Which a lot of times I think it is or should be. I think that's what people these days, they want to buy something from someone who gets them and someone who relates to them. And so you don't need to be totally casual and slang, but just be conversational and keep working at it. And it doesn't have to be perfect right away. It'll take time to find your voice, but keep trying to find that voice and be consistent. And keep your, keep your audience in mind as you're writing this. Like, what keeps them awake at night, and how can I help them solve that? And how can I speak to them in a way that will connect with them?

Mm-hmm. Yeah, keep the really professional tones that you learned in like your book report days would be perfect if you're writing an executive summary for a like your Series 1 funding to like a venture capital firm. That's a good time to like pull out your, um, the growth rate that we had over this year is 10%. Ideally we would like— and that's how you should talk to those people because they're boring and so they deserve boring writing. Um, but amen, if you're not talking to them, if you're talking to fun, exciting, vibrant people who are like you and you want them to feel fun and vibrant, excited about your brand, then Don't talk to them like that. Yes.

And can I tell you, it's so much easier to keep it up and be consistent when you're talking to them as your real self. It's so much easier because then you're just being you and people can tell when you're being you or when you're being a brand in the boring salesy sense of the word.

Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Amen. Amen. I'm totally on board there. So, and then, you know, if someone maybe as they're, their brand grows or their enterprise or what kind of their offerings are, if they do need help with writing, you know, if maybe they do some writing on their own or they've done some, which I always, I think is, is a good recommendation that people still try to work on developing that voice for a lot of different reasons. But if they are looking like they want some help in that area, what would you suggest in terms of finding a good person to help them out, a freelancer?

That is a really great question because yes, if you have the desire to be an amazing copywriter and that's what you want to develop, by all means go for it. You get that dream. But if you don't, if it doesn't bring you joy, let someone else do it for heaven's sake. And so I, for example, I obviously love writing and that's a skill I've tried to hone, but I don't love photography and it frustrates me and stresses me out. And yes, I could buy a nice camera and I could learn. I don't care to learn. I would rather someone else do it for me, someone who finds fulfillment and joy in that process. So if you are in that place with writing, let someone else do it who will just make it shine for you. And I have this quote in my pricing guide for my freelance work. It's, by writing well, you can stand out from the crowd. There is too much poor writing in the business world. Some people think, well, man, I am really good at business. Sometimes you're really good at business and you really suck at writing. So, but if you will recognize that you need a writer and you need an editor, that's a big thing too. People are like, well, I had my, brother read it or whatever. You need an editor if you're, if you're putting out a lot of words, you need someone else who knows what they're doing to see that writing. So it's an investment that's definitely worth making. Um, but to answer your question, to be honest, it's hard to find really good writers. I, or at least from the other side, I've heard that from companies and clients that I've worked with. They are like, oh, I tried this and this and this and this person, but I haven't been able to say, yeah, but they're out there. So there's 3 things I would suggest. I mean, obviously I, I'm not on the other side, so I haven't had to find writers, but I am because I am the writer. But I know, um, I've heard Fiverr, which is a website for to find freelance services. So Fiverr, it's just 5 and then RR, Fiverr. Um, and then CopyPress.com is another content marketing agency with a focus on creativity and ROI. So those are two companies you can go through. I'm all about finding people through connections, so I would just talk to other people who have writers that they love because you want a good writer, but you want a writer who will meet deadlines and be creative, or if you don't want them to be very creative and you need them to be very technical, you know, you need to find someone who will fit your needs. And so I would talk to other people in business and find, um, the newsletters and the content they've created and find that writer. Talk to those people to find who that writer is and see if they can— they're a freelancer— if they can help you out. Um, another thing is there's this Facebook group, um, that I go on, and you can— the one I go on is specific to where I am in Utah. Um, it's Utah PR and Marketing Jobs, and that's where I have found some social media assistants and things like that to help me with Loom journals and whatnot. But I know that there's groups, other Facebook groups like that where you can find people with specific skill sets. So I would utilize social media and your communities and then those two freelancing sites, you might give those a try.

The threefold, yeah, I like that, hitting all of those to try to find someone. And then the other question I want to ask you, so if someone finds themself in the reverse position, say they're like you, they like to write, and they'd like to be in this business and be a freelancer, what would be your advice in terms of, you know, getting going, finding clients, and kind of, you know, getting to a level where they can be doing the kind of work that they want to?

Yeah, so you definitely need some sort of— hmm, let's see, certification isn't the word, but you need some sort of experience, you know. And so I would find there are, I mean, now's the perfect time to become a freelance writer or a copy editor because you can be trained online. You can find all sorts of courses and books to learn the craft. And then once you do that, you can just start writing in the different genres you want to write in. Like do a blog post. If you're interested in press releases, do a sample press release. You can find all of these examples online. Um, you need to create your best samples of each of those areas of work that you want to be involved in. So create a really strong portfolio that shows your diversity and shows your writing in those specific areas. And because that's the first thing people will ask for when you approach them about writing for them will be samples. So you just need to have really great samples of your work on hand.

Yeah. So, and I, and I like that you mentioned that you have, you know, a pricing sheet. And so you've put things together so that it's easy when someone wants to work for you. You make that try to be a really smooth and seamless process.

Yeah, definitely. I have a whole— I had a graphic designer put together a pricing sheet for me so I know, okay, well, here's the price that's worth it for me if someone asks me to come up with their brand name or tagline or to do an Instagram post or blog post or article for them. So yeah, write down all the things that you'd be interested in providing and what you can provide and and all the prices for that and obviously your samples as well. That'll be really easy because then you can just email that to people when they're interested or asking for your services.

Exactly. Then what do you do when you inevitably have a person who's like, "Hey, can I just pick your brain? You're so good with words.

Can you name my business and give me some ideas?" Yes, let's talk about that because I'm sure you get that all the time. "Oh my gosh, you're a lawyer. You love being a lawyer." Yeah, you must do.

I call it— Well, it's especially rampant at church. It's called foyer lawyering and it's not great, guys. It's not. No, no.

Let's talk about that. Okay. So I do love writing and I'm, I'm so happy to help people when they need it, but I can't take on your project for free when I could be paid to be doing that same thing. And my time is like, all of our time is precious, right? And I'm not, I can't do that. If I do that, then I'll just be, you know, not making any money and spending a lot of time helping people. And I can't do that, especially at this point.

Which is not mindful.

No, that is not mindful on either side.

No.

So I'm a big believer, and I haven't always known this because I'm, you know, I'm sure I've taken advantage of other people's services before, but now especially running my own businesses, I am very mindful of this, that if you, even if they're your best friend, that's not a reason for you to get a freebie. That's even more reason for you to pay them or treat them If they're open to trade, sure, something that's valuable to them, but let them make that call. Hey, I have this, I can trade. Like, I have a friend, we have a great setup. She, like I said, I hate photography. She's a great photographer. It's easy for her. It's fun for her, but I hate it. So she'll take photos for me and I will edit and write for her, and it's a great setup. But yeah, don't take advantage of your friends who have a skill set just because they love it and are succeeding in it. You need to definitely offer to pay like any other customer would, and if they choose to give it, friends discount or whatever, that's totally up to them. But for me, it's, um, I really appreciate when people, even though I love them and want to give them the world, they still say, no, I'm going to pay you because I value your talent and your services.

So I value your time. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

So, and it just shows, um, yeah, it shows an emotional maturity and a respect for the relationship that said, hey, I would never want to let the fee, whatever that fee is for this service, be the reason that we have anything go wrong with our friendship. Like, it's— whatever that money is, it's certainly not worth it at all. So just go ahead and pay it and think in your mind and assume that there's going to be a payment for the service. Yeah, from the get-go, definitely.

But on the, on the flip side, I'm happy to help people, to share my knowledge in this way, for example, to share, you know, some tips and things I've learned. I don't mind talking about that. But in terms of like coming up with your actual brand names, I can help you know how to get started brainstorming your own. But if you're asking for me to give you the names, that's a service that I have to charge for.

Exactly. So, and then after that, come over to me and we'll do trademark clearance to make sure that—

Definitely. Oh my gosh, yes. I always tell people to go talk to you because if you spend all this time and, and sometimes money to get this great name, but then it gets ripped off, that's no bueno.

That's just— Or you're ripping off someone else and you're like blissfully going, you know, you're just chugging along, and guess what? It's not a big deal until a couple years down when someone else someone else finds it or finally goes enough high in the Google searches or whatever your industry is that now someone else and you get a really nasty cease and desist and then you're crying on the phone to me and I say, "Hey." Exactly. I've got bad news and worse news.

Which would you like first? Oh no. I'm sure you have so many stories about this, but I remember this boutique near my house that was called Lavish. Great name, Lavish.

Great name. Probably not a unique name, huh?

Guess what? They didn't do their homework and they had to switch to Valshti. Because they did the oven. It was like velshi. Yeah, because they used the same words and they didn't want to pay for these beautiful block letters that were—

oh my gosh, and they just redid them. Oh my gosh, I love that.

Oh my gosh, you know, don't become velshi.

Don't be velshi, guys. Whatever happens, don't let that happen to you. Cautionary tale. Oh my gosh, that, that's great. That's going to go on a PowerPoint.

That I'm doing someday.

That's going to go in my alt presentation. Oh, for sure. Okay, so I wanted you to give us some tips of being a more mindful entrepreneur because you kind of have some— we've talked a little bit about entrepreneurship and creativity and working for yourself and others, but also mindfulness. And because you're an expert in both, I'm going to want you to give us some tips in both of those because I think that they can really go hand in hand. Certainly, I think for my listeners here, especially this time of year and as they're trying to make plans for the new year, this is probably when they're going to be listening to this, it's going to be New Year 2019 and they're trying to think, "How can I be more mindful? How can I set goals with intention? How can I be more aware but also get stuff done?" Because we all got to get stuff done and just keep moving forward.

Yes, oh yes, I'm so excited to talk about this. So I'm trying to narrow down my tips because I have a good handful. So the first one, okay, so someone asked me, she's a fellow entrepreneur, she owns her own photography business and she's incredible. She said something along the lines of, how do you do it all? Like, how do you do so much and pursue so much? And I'm like, I just do it imperfectly and I'm okay with that. So my first tip is to be okay with imperfection and start before you're ready and before you think you have it all together. Starting is the hardest part. You just have to start where you are with what you have and give what you can. It doesn't have to be everything. You don't have to give everything all at once. You just start somewhere because so, so many of us get stuck behind that finish line— or sorry, behind the starting line— and we never take the step because of fear or self-doubt or comparison or waiting for perfection, the perfect time, the perfect situation. You just have to start and then you're there, you're there. Then you can from there know if you should keep going and in what way you should keep going. So that's tip number 1. Tip number 2 is don't get caught up in what people think. And what they're going to think of what you're doing or how you're doing it. Get caught up in what makes you feel alive. So if you focus on what you love and what makes you tick and what makes you happy, people will feed off of that passion and you will find your people because there are other people who think like you do and who want similar things and you'll find them if you just focus on what you love and what's authentic to you. Tip number 3 is to get comfortable with discomfort. Stop seeing discomfort and feelings of, oh, I don't know if I should do this, I don't know if I can, even fear and even questioning, is this right? Because it's pretty hard and it's not smooth going, so it may be wrong. See all of those things as a good sign. Those are a good sign you're on the right track because you're stepping out of your comfort zone and doing something that will bring growth. So those are my main 3, but let me just add some additional mindfulness things that have helped me so much. Just 2 things. Number 1 is a morning routine, and it can be super simple. Today mine was yoga. I usually work out and do weights, but I take a day in the week to slow down, and yoga is kind of my break. And yoga takes you out of your mind and into your body and just helps you be present. And so for me, it is yoga and journaling. We talked about that clarity that journaling brings to me. When I start my day with those two things, those very calming, grounding things, I carry a piece of that with me throughout the entire day. So have some sort of morning routine, even if it's just one thing to start with. Like making your bed, just one thing that grounds you. The second thing is finding those moments of pause throughout the day. So it can be as simple as taking 3 deep breaths once a day when you think about it. Maybe it's at a stoplight, so you have a physical cue to tell you, oh, this is my time to do my 3 breaths. It can be 3 breaths a day. It can be 3 minutes of meditation on the Headspace app. I love that app. And it's free. I use the free version. It can be while you're washing your dishes, you think of 3 things you're grateful for. I'm obviously loving on the number 3 here, but if you can just—

well, it's a divine number, okay? There's, there's research to back it up.

So, oh, that's why. There you go. Yep. So yeah, just focus on simple things that you can do throughout the day to find those anchors of peace and calm and a break, and that will bring you clarity. Because I believe that creativity You can't force it. It kind of has to find you. You have to make space for it. That's what you have to do. But then, and it'll come, and that inspiration will come, but it can't come as, as easily or as developed as when, if you're harried and hurried and just stressed out. Okay, you can get stuff done in, in that mode of operation, but your best inspiration will come in those quote-unquote shower moments when you are just present and calm and relaxed. That's when my best inspiration comes, when I'm not trying to think or trying to force thoughts. It's when, when I'm just being there and being— yes. And so walking is another huge way to find that inspiration. Get outside of your normal routine, go on a walk. And that's something I talk about in my mindfulness book because there's a lot of research that shows that walking creates creates new pathways in the brain and helps you come up with new ideas and ways of thinking. So this is actually a thing some companies do. The supervisor or boss will go on a walk with the employee because they will get further than they could if they were sitting there in their usual cubicle trying to force some ideas out. So just go on a walk. But yeah, yeah, just create space for that creativity.

Yeah. It reminds me so much of, um, what Elizabeth Gilbert talks about in Big Magic. You know, she talks about the idea that Inspiration is like a little Jiminy Cricket that will come and tap you on the shoulder, but if you don't do anything with it and if you don't listen, it will move on to someone else because it wants to be manifest. It wants to be made real, and if it's not going to be through you, then it will move on to someone else if you haven't made that space for it. Okay, so I wanted to review these tips before we let Kim go because she gave us some really great ones. The first was to be okay with imperfection. To start before you're ready, but just get started. To not let perfection be the enemy of progress and just getting in the game. The second was to not get caught up in what other people are thinking or feeling, especially when other people's motivations, however well-intentioned, may be different than yours. And they might be looking for your comfort instead of for your progress and for you to be really doing what you need to be doing. Be aware of what you are thinking and feeling, and then you you can really be authentic. The third was get comfortable with discomfort. Be okay with feeling all the feelings and having that really varied range of emotion. For here, I think about— I love Jody Moore's podcast on Better Than Happy because she talks a lot about it's not all just about happiness. It's about feeling that full range of human emotions of being human and just really being okay with that and just sinking into what that really is.. And then the 2 bonus mindfulness tips that, that Kim gave us are: the first is have some sort of morning routine, even if it's just one thing that you start out with. And the other is look for some other grounding practice that you can incorporate during the day, whether that's paying attention to your breathing, Headspace, you know, meditation, or another kind of meditative practice, a gratitude practice, or maybe going on a walk. But something else that you can do, especially if you can involve something kinetically, you know, with that. That's what I I got out of your tips because it can change not only what's happening in your brain but what's in your body too and can really bring those into harmony.

Definitely. Yeah. I want to just sneak in a couple book recommendations because I love books so much and you talked about Big Magic and that's one of my all-time favorite books for creatives. We could talk about that alone for 2 hours.

Yes.

Yes, we could. Big Magic: The War of Art by Steven Pressfield is another.

Also another favorite of mine. I love that book.

Pressfield.

He gets it.

He gets it. Yep. And he's the author—

isn't he the author of Legend of Bagger Vance?

Legend of Bagger Vance.

And he also wrote Gates of Fire, which is a kind of a creative, you know, historical retelling of the Battle of Thermopylae, you know, Sparta. And my husband and I, we listened to that on a road trip once. It was incredible, incredible writing. So if you're listening for a good, like, couple, we have a road trip and we want something we'll both enjoy, Gates of Fire, do it.

Yeah, baby. Okay, so that. Bird by Bird by Anne Lamott, love it. And then if you are a brand and you're looking for help with naming and some copywriting and taglines, my boss from Eat My Words, the naming firm I work for, Alexandra Watkins, she wrote Hello, My Name Is Awesome, and that is a short little book that will help you find a name that will carry your business forward for years to come. So those are my 4 books for creatives recommendations.

I love that. Um, and if people want more from you, like you do kind of these awesome book lists all the time. Again, like we mentioned in the beginning, you do for KSL and you do them on your Instagram too, where you'll do best Christmas books or best books for this age range or connect about this issue. Um, so if people want more of that from you, for more of your tips about mindfulness journaling, they want to hear more about Loom, they want to hear about all the other tens of dozens of other awesome things that you're doing. Where should they connect with you?

Mindfully Doing.

Mindfully Doing, obviously, through all of it.

Yes, I am mostly on my blog talkingwordy.com because someone has talkwordytome.com. We're gonna—

we're working on it, honey. Okay, because we're working on that trademark.

Because they can't take it because it's trademarked by Brittany Rettell, so don't mess with my lawyer. Okay. And then, um, aside from that, I'm just on Instagram at Talk Wordy to Me.

Yeah, and you're great on Instagram. I love hearing what you're writing on Instagram. So, well, thank you so much for being on here today. It was just such a pleasure to talk with you. I knew it was going to be, and it didn't disappoint. So, um, I'm sure everyone else is going to want to follow you if they're not already and hear about all the incredible work that you're doing.

Oh, thank you so much, Brittany. I just admire what you do and everything you are, and this This has been such a fun conversation, so thank you for having me.

Thank you guys for listening. Wasn't that just an amazing episode? I love Kim so much, and it's a testament to how great it is to make friends in the entrepreneurial space, um, and to keep nurturing those friendships, and how things can learn, you know, lead to mentoring and having a good time. And I was able to reconnect with her again recently, um, at Alt Summit because this was recorded quite a while ago. Sorry it took me a while to get out, but I just have so many great interviews, guys, at the same it's going to take me a while to get them all out to you, but they're all going to come. And it was really fun to be able to re-listen to this conversation. And especially she has moved forward with her plans and the way that she's moving forward with her loom product, her loom journal. And so if you didn't get a chance to get on their Kickstarter, they are— they're running a lot more prints now and different colors. We have two now. I have them for both of my daughters and we absolutely love them. And it's become one of our Sunday traditions. As we love sitting down with our loom journal and disconnecting over that. So, and that's something I'm really excited about, and obviously she's really passionate about, and it's something that connects things that she truly is knowledgeable in, and she knows is a gift to people to be able to connect, to be more mindful about their passions, about their interests, and about their relationship. So there is also a bonus freebie, a handout that goes with this episode. So if you love the tips that Kim was sharing but you're on the go, as many of us are, and but you'd like to be able to kind of sink your teeth into some of these mindfulness tips and hacks that she's giving us. And hint, um, she has sold this course and I've purchased it with my own money because it was so good. Um, and she's giving us some of these, her greatest tips that she's learned and researched and really practiced for free. So, um, who doesn't love free, guys?

You— what you—

where you're going to want to go to get that handout is brittanyritell.com/39. Okay, this is episode 39, so you just put in the numbers 39 /39 after my main website, and it'll take you— I'll have a pretty link there to get to, um, the episode where you can download that handout, um, and be on your merry mindful way. And, um, if you are not signed up for my newsletter, that's a great resource for you, totally free, um, and it gives you just all kinds of tips and tricks like what we mentioned in these episodes and others to help you run your creative business. When you sign up, you also get my free legal checklist which is my one-page power overview of what kind of questions you need to be asking in your creative business. So you can find that at brittanyratelle.com/checklist. Okay, that's how you get that free checklist. It'll go right to your inbox. Download it, print it, start using and abusing it, whatever you need to try to get your business legit, to know what questions you need to be asking, what tasks you need to be ticking off, or you need to be, you know, getting your team members or staff to tick off so you can make sure that your business is as legit as you are, okay? And that it's going to be as strong as you are to get you where you need to go. And otherwise, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast, make sure you're following me on Instagram, and keep chugging away on those businesses, everybody. Thanks so much for sharing. Everybody who shares me and lets me know and sends me DMs and tags me online, I really appreciate it. And it's just, it's really awesome to see the podcast spreading to more people and to help them and how the way it's helping their business. There's several of you that approached me, um, at when I was at Alt Summit in Palm Springs and introduced yourself and thanked me for the podcast and, you know, let me know what it's doing for you and your business. And I, I just love that. I really appreciate your support and that just that you guys are taking time to do things right in your business, um, and that of all the choices and content that you have, which I know are a lot, that you're spending a little corner of your day, your, your life, your busy, busy schedule here. So I really appreciate you.. And I know that none of this would be possible— this business, this space, this wonderful opportunity to do what we get to do in 2019— without you guys. So thanks so much and keep chugging away. Remember that you are a real business owner, so make sure that you are owning your business. All right, boss babes, in every sense of the word.