Branding Do's and Don'ts with Designer Melanie Burk - 46

This is Law and Wit, Episode 46, Branding Dos and Don'ts with designer Melanie Burke. Welcome to Law and Wit, Creative Counsel for Entrepreneurs. I'm your host, Brittany Rettell, mother of 4, entrepreneur, naptime lawyer, and attorney for creative entrepreneurs. I'm here to share inspiration and action so that you can tackle your business blocks and confidently own your business in every sense of the word. Thank you so much for being here. Hello everyone, and welcome back, and I'm so excited to introduce our special guest today. We have Melanie Burke in the house, and Melanie is a designer, a teacher, a collector of happy, and lover of life. She's the author of Unexpected Type. She's a successful designer, branding strategist, educator. She's got a dreamboat husband, 5 children— that's right, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5— and they've all taught her to find the beauty in a messy, joyful life. She lives with her family in San Diego, and And I've had the pleasure of knowing Melanie for how many years? It's been like, yeah, since college, 15 years.

Freshman year in college, baby.

Freshman year in college, baby. So I know and love Melanie, and I know that if you don't, if you don't have the pleasure yet, you, you will too. So thank you, Melanie, and welcome to Long Wit.

Hi everyone. Glad to be here. Thanks for having me. Of course.

Of course. Well, I wanted Melanie to talk a little bit about kind of her origin, her kind of creative origin story. You know, we ask a lot of our guests, guests about where they get started. Um, and I think this is particularly relevant because I've been able to see so much of Melanie's journey, you know, journey with, with the ting symbol. Um, but that, you know, where she started in her field, um, in terms of exploring, you know, people that you know, you guys have their products in your house, in your home, in your life. Um, and Melanie's been a part of that. So tell us about your story.

Um, you know, it's really fun is Brittany and I were roommate, almost roommates, very right next to each other. That's how we met in college. And I remember very specifically having no idea what I wanted to study, but I think Brittany helped me discover at some point that what I had listed as an accounting major was not a wise choice. Um, when I realized I had no managing skills of my money and poor Brittany, I think had to pay for a few meals for me at one point.

I think I bought some clothes for you because you, you, you owe overdrawn your account and then you were like, well, I, you know, and you were really, you didn't know that like there's a fee, like not only like do you know, oh no.

Yeah, no accounting, accounting would not have been a wise choice. And anytime I want my husband to have a good long laugh, I tell him, hey, remember when accounting was my major? So I quickly discovered that this was not going to be a wise choice for my life or career. And so I literally at the time would not do, I just crossed out and I kept going. And I got to graphic design and I had never heard of it, but it was listed under art and marketing and something about it really intrigued me. And I remember just stopping and circling it and I thought, I need to find out about this major. And so that was where I began, literally from knowing absolutely 100% nothing.

I did—

to make a very long story very short, I did not do great in college. In fact, I really struggled. One of my professors at one point— I didn't get into the program. It took me like 3 times to get into the program. And at the very end, they downed— anyways, I ended up only graduating with a BA and not even a BFA. Like, they made this deal about something, and one of the professors took me aside and told me that I would never be a successful designer. This is how I graduated from school. So to say that I graduated with a chip on my shoulder was definitely an understatement. But I didn't feel discouraged. I really felt like my training was amazing. And it probably was what it needed to be for me to have like a little bit like, I'm gonna do this, you know, attitude. And I feel like it served me well. However, that being said, as I have taught and talked to other graphic designers and people who wanna do graphic design, in my opinion, that does not have to be the education experience that you have.

It does not have to be a universal, you know, crucible that everyone has to go through.

No, no, but I do feel like sometimes when you enter the arts, there is definitely this like pain and suffering, which I don't agree with, you know. That produces good art. And I would say that my professors at the time definitely agreed with that sentiment of, you know, pain leads to better art. And they, and they, but they were such fabulous professors. And I will say that they really trained me hard and they, and it was a very good foundation, maybe not mentally, but training-wise. And so after I left school, then I just embarked on You know, at the time, social media didn't exist, which makes me sound like I've done this forever. But it really hasn't been that long. But I just, I just put my head down. And I knew I wanted my own business. I knew it was going to take a lot of hard work and failure. And I just, I tried everything. I was hungry, I would try anything. And that's where I started, really from nothing to feeling comfortable. I've now owned my own business for 10 years now and done graphic design for over 10 years and had clients all during that time. And I've loved, I've loved it. Been quite a journey.

Yeah, for sure. But you know, as we were talking about what you wanted to talk about, you kept on saying, you know, everyone starts somewhere. And I think that, that, um, you know, your journey for sure, you know, comes into play and illustrates that because as you said, um, you know, you had uphill battles. And I remember, you know, some of your first small clients and work that you would take on, and you would have people who, you know, would love stuff and then would hate things, and you'd have to go— oh yeah, totally different direction. And you'd be, you know, working in the middle of the night with, you know, nursing a baby on one arm and like, you know, working on your files in the other. I mean, you put in some long hours. Long hours, Mel.

Yes. And I think that it's been fun too, is because of where I've ended up going with graphic design, I work with a lot of small starting companies. And so what I love about it is it captures, like, I feel like I get to relive, but not it be me, but I get to relive the start of a company over and over and over with. And I have to say that I love it and it just is a reminder. And that was the first point I kinda wanna talk about, is like, yeah, like you said, everyone starts somewhere. And that it doesn't matter who's out there doing your craft, it doesn't matter what other people offer, don't look at them, stay true to yourself and just start. And you don't have to know the whole, what it's all gonna turn into. When I started, I told Daniel at one point, my thing is going to be stationery. I am going to have a shop full of cards, and if you have ever looked at any of my design, I have never sold stationery in 9 years.

I have some of your cards, but I believe you.

Yeah, like the first year, and I had some like, um, epic failures with stationery and some good success, but like I quickly learned that that was not what brought me joy, you know, but that's what I thought I was going to do. But it, it was the first step, right? It was the first step that got me going that then led me to the second step. And so I just think everyone starts somewhere And it's easier to keep moving if you're walking, right? But if you're like waiting there for things to align or for a sign or like, I have to have the whole vision of my company or my brand or what this is gonna look like. Well, good luck with that. You know, it's just, you just have to start. You just have to start. And it has never been easier to start a company in my opinion with social media and the internet. Like it is so accessible. There's so many great, services. And so just start, start and be proud of starting, you know, and that, and that first forward step.

Um, so yeah, you mentioned a little bit about stationary failures. Tell me about, um, tell me about your, your favorite booth show.

Yes, so when Brittany and I were talking about like one of the other things I was thinking about that has been crucial on my journey is those failures and mistakes. And I remember early on calling my dad, my dad. So I grew up with my dad being an entrepreneur. And so it was great because I could always ask him and count on some good hard-knock advice, you know. And so I remember calling at one point feeling anxious about something, stressed about— I'm sure that like maybe I didn't have clients and I desperately needed clients or there was something and I called him and— or I made a mistake. I can't remember why I called him, but there was, there was something I had failed at. And he said, well, I'll tell you something you're not going to want to hear, but you learn way more from a failure than you'll ever learn from a success. And I feel like that is 100% true. I would like people to learn from my mistakes and not make my mistakes, but I think that there's really things you can only learn from mistakes and failures. And the mistakes and failures I have had over the years have really been such huge stepping stools or stepping stones, if you will. But I mean, I can list off a few of them, but they're pretty comical now when I look at them. They were not at the time. There's One time where, as I mentioned before, I was determined that I was gonna do stationery. And so I had paid at the time, which was a lot of money because we lived in like a basement apartment. My husband was going to school. We had nothing. We were so poor, but we were happy. And we had paid, saved all our money, Fiddler on the Roof style. Yes, it was, it was like, you know, $800 or something, a large amount of money at the time to be in this booth and I sold like a pack of cards in 2 days. Like one pack of cards, which was $6. And not only that, but then there was this huge wind and rainstorm and it like destroyed half of my inventory and like all the products. So I felt like, well, not, but I learned so much from that show and it really was like, looking back, it was an altering thing because after that show I was like, well, I'm going to make this work. So then I went out and I was like, I tried to get into another like wedding booth show where I was gonna do wedding invitations. I was sure this was gonna be it. And I applied to it and they like rejected me and they were like, no, you can't be in it, it's full and you'll have to try again in a year. So I decided I was gonna hustle harder. So I printed out all these flyers with like my information on it and I went outside of the wedding show and put flyers in all the cars, which turns out is illegal, because I was then escorted from the premise. I was caught and then escorted. And you have to remember, I was very pregnant at this point. So this security guard's like escorting me from the wedding show. Anyways, it was so great. And then I was— but then I had all these flyers and I was like, well, what can I do with this next? I'm not going to be upset about this. I'm just going to laugh about this. So then I went and I found like some apartment buildings and I just went and put flyer on like every single door where, and I feel like these are the things you do that create a foundation of like being positive about the failures, trying harder. And, and there's like a law of returns that does not make any sense when you're starting a business. If you work really hard, the things you work really hard on won't always succeed, but something else will. Like you just put out your effort and something will happen. It's normally not the one you think will. Because I remember after doing all that work, I never got a single client from that, but I randomly got one client from someone else. And, and, you know, and it just, it just takes one and then two and then three, and it's slow going. But when I look back and I think of those failures, I— it makes me smile when I have hard things now and I look back and I think, well, I remember how hard that felt then, and It was, it was something that really proved me. And I think whatever this challenge is I'm going through right now, I'll look back with the same fondness. I feel like it gives me better perspective. It makes me laugh because that image of me being escorted off is hilarious. I will never live that moment down in my, in my life.

So with the pregnant belly, I mean, just, yeah, the whole, the whole thing.

Yeah, pregnant. And I mean, there's more, like, I I was so determined that stationery was for me. I remember we would go on trips and meet with stationery owners and I remember I was pregnant and throwing up outside of their store and then going in. Obviously they did not want to buy from the lady who just threw up on their—

Did you throw up in my urn, Brenda? No, no, that's not me. I didn't throw up on your landscaping, that must be someone else.

Yeah, who's that woman?

By the way, tell everyone why when you say you throw up, we don't mean like, oh, How cute. Like morning sickness. Tell the people about how—

oh yeah, I have hyperemesis, um, and so I get very, very ill for most of my pregnancy.

Like deathly ill? Like, yeah, like IVs, like you're out. Yeah, your whole pregnancy. And you have 5 children.

I have 5 kids because they're so cute when they come and they give you amnesia and destroy you. Anyways, they're amazing. But yeah, it just has led to some really comical moments. But those, man, those funny moments, I mean, that's where companies, you know, as I've worked with bigger and bigger companies, and it's interesting because we'll do this, we'll do this branding work with even some of the big companies, and what we always go back to is where was the root of where your company was formed?. And it's these stories, even if you are a small company, or if you're a big company, these are the stories that really truly create the thread of— I believe they're essential to creating a company. And most companies that I know, that I've worked with, that have had tons of money to begin with, have really struggled. Like, I think having a lack of resources or a lack of whatever it is, is actually a really important part of starting a company, and it teaches you something that you, you just can't learn otherwise.

So it's, you know, that scarcity, that fear, um, it can breed some really good ingenuity, some hardiness and resilience to things that, yeah, it's hard to get to otherwise, you know?

Yeah, yeah. So kind of, and then it's interesting because, you know, when I look back on those failures, I kind of have to laugh because I'm like, why did I feel like that was such a big failure? 'cause I feel like sometimes as you get bigger, the failures are a bit bigger. You know, they're a little bit more costly. They're a little bit more painful. Sometimes a little bit more public. I've had, you know, I've started several different companies. Some of them I've been able to sell out of it. Some of them we've separated and gone our different ways. Some of those have been painful. Some of those have been amicable. I know all of them have been amicable in the end.

Eventually, yeah.

But some of them are definitely painful. It's hard because, you know, you, when you have a company, it's your baby and you love it and you've put a lot of sweat and tears and midnight hours into it. And so, but, and so some of those feel very public failures with social media. It feels very public. It feels very raw. But in reality, I feel like those have been huge turning points for my business or for me personally. I, looking back there, there are things that I, I feel like I wish I could take away. I'd be like, oh, I wish I could have taken that away. But then at the same time, I'm like, no, because from that came this, you know, I can see the result of every single thing that really improved me or led to a better project or business. So, you know, just embrace those failures. Try, have a good cry if you need to.

No, it's part of the journey, that refiner's fire that you have.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone— and if no one— if they haven't shared it with you, you don't know them well enough, because everyone, everyone has things that are failures in their, in their company.

Yeah, everyone. So, okay guys, so everyone starts somewhere. That's, that's Mel's first thing. Okay, um, and what's your, um, you know, or I guess you want to say everyone starts somewhere, and that failures are part of the journey, you know, as you talked about, that they, they come, they're part of it, and it's all about our mindset and how we can learn from them, and what— and if we're being humble enough to actually learn those lessons from it.

So yes, and, and just laugh about it. Yeah, you know, there— I feel like laughter has been a huge key for me in my business because you can choose to cry, and sometimes you do need to do that, or you can choose to laugh and like try it again. I there's a really great, um, saying that says nothing will make you feel better except for doing the work. And I feel like that's probably— amen— that sums it all up there. But, and I would probably add, and a good laugh, you know, like, yeah, do the work and have a good laugh. But like, you just get back in there. And the cool thing is there's so much that you can do without— like, there's just so much work that is accessible now that wasn't 10 years ago, between social media and websites of what you're able to do, that you really can put your head down and work. And that's kind of my second thought. And then as Brittany and I were talking about, I, I, the other thing that really came to mind as I thought about my journey is, um, around this time when I realized that stationery was not perhaps a good fit for me after so many, you know, things, I, I decided to kind of study. And so one of the things that's been really helpful for me, and I would suggest no matter what field you are, is to really kind of research. And I made a list of all the other designers that were inspiring to me, and I studied. I went through and studied, like, where— what was the turning point in their career? And with every single designer that I looked at, I noticed there was a turning point of them having a passion product, like a passion project that inspired them. And before that point, they were working but the passion project either propelled them to land better, bigger clients or connections, but it, it was every single one that was the fire that started, you know. So I, I realized I was like, oh, I need a project, a personal passion project. And I will say that things really got going for me when I started doing that. And I've done various different ones, and whenever I'm feeling stuck, then that's when I'm like, okay, I need, I need a project that's for me that gets my creativity going. So like, to name a few, like, I remember feeling a little bit stuck and feeling like I would love to break into patterns. And so I decided that for that year, I was going to design a pattern every single day. That's right, I remember those. Yes, it's a long time ago. And anyways, and so I did, I started, and no, I did not do one every single day because I think I got pregnant at the end of the year and that ended that. And that's 200 more patterns than I would have ever had because I would never, you know, and it was, it got me in the habit. It got me in a few habits. One, of creating art for myself every day, at least 10 or 15 minutes of something that was for me. Secondly, it was— I was putting something out that I thought was beautiful, that I was envisioning for me. I was envisioning myself being successful, right? And I was putting it out into the world. And it's interesting because I, at the time, I really was like, oh, I'm not doing stationery. I'm— now I want to transition to doing fabrics. Well, if you know me, I've never done fabrics. But I created this portfolio and all these people saw this work and they hired me. And I ended up designing all these different fun products from rain boots to socks to, oh, sheets to, and so I've been able to do all this product design. I ended up using those patterns for years, because I then had an arsenal, and so then I could show them to clients, sometimes they bought that, sometimes they use it, and so that was a personal project that really made all the difference. And so a lot of times when I'm consulting with companies that are just starting, or other clients or other designers, off and get you started. And it will turn into something else or it'll grow, but you can share it on social media, but people will be engaged. This will grow into something, something. And every single passion project I've had has grown into something incredibly useful or helpful. And I've done a lot of them and I love them. So, and now I'm like, what is my new passion project? And I'm in the search for another one.

So yeah, well, you can talk a little bit about— because you've been involved with, um, the launch of Prism. Yeah, which I've gotten to be involved with a little bit. Yeah, but I mean, because, you know, launching a new social media app, what, like, it's hard?

Like, it's a lot of work. Yeah, why? It was crazy. So this was, this was a passion project that started 2 years ago where I decided that I wanted to start doing apps, and, you know, and so I was like, well, I'll just set a timer every day for 15 minutes first thing. And so I would set a timer for 15 minutes and I would work and I just put my head down and I just created. And sometimes I'd throw it away. Sometimes I would spend more than 15 minutes, you know, but it just did. It just built little by little. And then as I started to work, then I started to have more ideas and more ideas. And then anyway, so it really turned into a journey. And we— and it's cool because after a few months, I just felt like, no, there's other people I need to work with. And it grew and changed into something completely really different and it's turned into Prism. So we, with 4 other partners, I've been able to create a new app for telling your story that is part documenting your life, part social media, but we've spent the greater part of the 2 years studying what is the difference between a happy app and a negative app. There's a lot of negativity surrounding some of these things, but there's also a lot of really good things. And so if you can leave the negative and harness the positive, I can be really powerful and really, really fun. So it's been a really fun project. It's launched a few weeks ago and it's been really fun to see, and it's fun to see the things that are happening for that. Just this— I don't know, it's really fun to think of what I need for my family and for myself and then work to create that. So these passion projects are definitely kind of one of my favorite things that I'm able to do. And sometimes, I was joking with Brittany, sometimes the most expensive too. No, I'm just kidding. Not always.

Yeah.

But sometimes. Sometimes.

Turns out self-funding an app is—

Yeah, it turns out that is quite a bit of money.

Yeah. Yeah.

But it's worth it. So that one is really exciting. And Brittany has been so helpful in doing all our legal work for it.

So— You know, just those really, those fun privacy policies and terms that you guys all get super excited about because I know you guys all read that. You don't, you just don't, you don't just check those boxes.

And I will just say, you know, I was laughing because I was, as we were talking about these failures, I was starting to recount because Brittany has been my lawyer for so many different contracts. And I was remembering, I was like, oh, Brittany helped me with that particular time. I was remembering as we were talking about it. So I mean, fail with a lawyer by your side.

That is definitely I should add that if you can, yeah, then yes, have, have somebody in the foam pit for you. So that's, that's, that's, that's always helpful. So, um, well, you know, tell me just a little bit about, um, I know you've got some tips for us, some quick tips, but I just, I wanted you to touch a little bit about kind of intersection of being a mom, you know, working from home. I'm looking at you right now in your studio that has all your beautiful kids' artwork behind you because like that the reality of your life. Like, you are like mompreneur. It's your kids' work and your work, and it's all intermixed. And like I said, you have 5 children and you've built this business while being at home and being with them, you know, in various capacities. Um, you know, what advice would you give for, for mamas out there that are trying to— I know we hate the word balance, but, um, are trying to figure that out? Like, what, what worked for you or what didn't work for you?

So a few things I would say, look at in all things, like it's kind of what we're talking about. You can look at the failure or the challenges as challenges, or you can look at them as opportunities. So I feel like every time that I start to be like, oh, I don't know if I can be successful in this because I can only do it this way. I would— I— you can really quickly spiral, right, of feeling like you're inadequate as a mother, you're inadequate as a designer or an entrepreneur. It can really quickly turn into a self-pity party because guess what? There are literally only 24 hours in a day and you cannot find more. I've tried, I've looked, there's nothing.

They are not available.

No, not available. So, but what I've learned is to look at the challenges as an opportunity and to look at it as ways that you can find inspiration. So what do I mean? That sounds really good and nice. Let's talk about what that actually means, like, right? So I just learned to really look at like, okay, I can't be available during this time because of my kids. Like, I need to be clear about that. But I'm looking at that as an opportunity because guess what? That means that I can learn how to be very clear with my clients of what I can do and what I can't do for them. And it's made me be clear about what I'm able to deliver. And it's also made me be really clear about what I— where I gather my inspiration. So like, I hope I'm putting this into words, but I just learned quickly that if I was going to feel upset about not having enough time for the different areas I needed, that it was going to be in no one's benefit. But if I chose to like, isn't this amazing that I get to be a mom? And I get to have a business. I get to do both. Is that ever happened for anyone in the history of the world that we could have like, so few women have this opportunity of really being able to have a career and be a mother. We are so lucky. So I'm not gonna complain about it. I'm just gonna do it. And so one of my favorite artists, Minerva Teichert, I remember feeling a little discouraged at one point in reading about her autobiography. And it says that she had her beautiful canvas set up in the fireplace, right? Or not in the fireplace, but next to the fireplace, because she lived on a farm raising like 6 kids and a farm, right? And this is like— painting's hard. You can't stay up in the middle of the night to paint, right? Like, there's no computers. So she says that she would go over and she would stir a few times in the pot, and she would go over and paint a few paints. Like a few brushstrokes with her easel, and she would go back and stir a little bit on her pot and go back and paint. I love that imagery in my mind because I feel like it looks at me as that, like, find beauty in the chaos, right? Find beauty in what you're choosing to be. So like, when I'm with my kids, I'm gonna enjoy being with my kids because I get to be a mother. And when I'm gonna work, I'm not gonna throw a pity party for myself that I'm working late at night. I get to work. And I'm going to enjoy it and I'm going to do things to make it enjoyable for myself, whether it's like a treat or, you know, some music or listen to, you know. So I've just— I've chosen to find a good attitude about it. And I can't say that I've always had a good attitude. You know, like, I think it's a continual choice. Secondly, about balance, I feel like if you're seeking for this eternal balance of this is my aha moment, you will never find it. But if you are seeking daily to have balance, than you will. And what I mean by that is that balance for me has looked totally different across the 10 years, you know. And sometimes I have— I'm pregnant and my other kids are a little bit bigger and they're taking steady naps, and so I can plan better and have calls during that. Sometimes I'm sick and I can't work at night, and so it's better for me to work up in the morning. And sometimes I have a little newborn baby who doesn't you know, wants me to hold them all day. And so then I'm really strategic about when or— and sometimes I felt like I needed to have a sitter. Sometimes I feel like my kids are really needing me in this season, so I'm going to cancel that babysitter for a few months. I've tried it all. I've done it all. And I have no regrets. I just think it is between you. I am religious. It's between God. It's between you and your husband. If you're married, I just think you have to really be clear about having a good attitude and then look for the opportunity. And then also look at— is it— look at the balance as an ever-changing equation because your kids are always changing, right? But, but it is a very short time period. I have a 9-year-old and I feel like when she went to first grade, all of a sudden I was like, oh my gosh, it really does go quickly. And all of a sudden they're gonna be in school and the challenges will be different. You know, and then I'm going to be trying to cram in all my work into like the hours they're at school so that I can enjoy them when they're at night and wanting to do it right. Like it's going to be ever-changing and that's part of the fun. Like don't look at it as a restriction. Look at it as like that challenge of recreating ourselves over and over again.

Oh no, I really like that imagery. So, and I've heard, yeah, I've heard you mention the Minerva Teichert story, you know, before that imagery, but it is so lovely, the thought of like, it doesn't all have to be, you know, laid out from the beginning and we don't have to seek for that perfect open canvas in our life. You know, it can just be a little bit at a time. It can be, you know, working on what matters to us, on our craft, on our business, on what it is that's driving you. And when you know that it's something that's important to you, um, You know, it'll work out even just making little, little steps forward.

So yes, yeah. And yes, do not minimize small acts, right? Just like for our kids, the small things really add up. And I would say it's the same with our personal development. So if you have 20 minutes, you'll be surprised how much you can get done in 20 minutes. I actually regularly set my timer for 20 minutes and say, like, if my kids are gone, I'm like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna work on laundry for 20 minutes. And then when that laundry minute— laundry hits 20, I'm like, okay, now I'm gonna do some emails for 20 minutes. And I'll do emails and then, okay, now I'm gonna stop and read a book with my kids. They've been playing outside. And so I often do that because, um, that's one of the things that works for me, you know. Probably what it tells you is that I have borderline ADD, I guess.

No, but what, you know, it's— you're, you're a polychronic. Oh, that's right.

Yeah. No, but I think that there's actually a book called The Pomodoro Method about 20-minute increments. But the whole point though is that you can get so much more done in 20 minutes than you realize. And if you were to analyze, I think one of the big things is thinking through your empty moments that you're not utilizing, right? So like there's 20-minute increments here and there that like, like when you come back from pickup from your schools or drop off your kids, are you sitting on your phone just scrolling through Instagram?

Like, no, no, that's some other mom sitting in her minivan in the driveway, right?

Obviously there's things like that add up that you don't realize. And so you just have to be like, have a plan and like, this is my time that I'm going to do that. So I just feel like the biggest thing for me is I have to be very clear about when I'm doing certain things. Like, when is it that I'm working? When is it that I'm going to make this happen? Because the days I have a plan or I'm clear about it, I can get a lot done. And the days— and it's okay to have, you know, whatever days too. We all need that good balance. For a second. Oh, that's a good signal. Like, totally cut out. I hear anything you said.

Okay, hold on. Okay, now it's back. I had like a red broken arrow heart. That's a good sign.

Okay, scratch that.

Okay, okay, let us know what are the branding tips that we have before we leave, um, if we want to siphon off some of that amazing Melanie Burke branding. What graphic designer extraordinaire wisdom. Yes. What should we be doing to work on our brands, our businesses?

So the first thing I would say is do some research. Like, and when I say research, don't Google all of your competitions or competitors. What I mean is if you're going to hire a designer, you should come with research gathered of what you want. What is your style? What do you like? And there's this really dangerous edge where it's like, well, I'll just know it when I see it. I know they're a good designer. And they're gonna create something and then I'm gonna love it and that's gonna be my brand. Well, any designer that does that for you, you're not gonna be happy with that branding and you're not going to keep that branding for very long because it has no meaning to you, it only has meaning to the designer. And so in order for it to be worth your money and your efforts, you need to know a little bit about your brand, about who you are, have some things that mean, you know, when you think like, what do I like? Why do I like that? And what type of icons would represent me? It'll be 100% easier for you to work with a designer. The problems that I always have, yeah, is the times that I've had problematic, like clients who've been frustrated is because they're, they're not clear about what they want. And so taking some time to do some research would go a long way for your happiness. Secondly, have a story or a meaning. Like, take the time, like if you are going to hire a designer or a copy editor or something, maybe you're feeling stuck like, how do I talk about this? But there needs to be your why. Why are you running a business? Why are you choosing to do this project? Why are you choosing to start this company? And you need to know that why so that, and that will carry through everything you do, like your branding, your story, your social media, your marketing. But if you don't have that why, it will fall flat on people. And as I've seen the companies that I've been working with the last 10 years, those companies that are very clear about their why and have a purpose and regularly share that, they have grown. No, No questions asked. I can look at almost every single one of them have grown. Whereas those that don't have a why and are just kind of like, I want to do this because it will be profitable, you can only carry that so long, you know, and it's only motivating for so long. And so knowing your why and what is your meaning and your story, I would say is like the second—

your business why is so important. And if you haven't figured that out, I would highly suggest Allison's Brand Secrets for that because that, that which is at All Summit this year. But, um, but yeah, that's an incredible workshop because it really hones down to what is your why and figuring out what that is, because you're gonna need that for a whole lot of work that you need to do in your business.

For motivating yourself even, you know. Um, but I feel like, yes, expecting your designer or your web designer or your developer to like deliver you something when you're not clear about what you want will never, never go well. So yes, being clear about your why, knowing your style. The other thing is do some research and look at your competitors so that you will not look like them. And find out what else inspires you. I tell, when I have someone hire me, I give them[No speech] like, and then I tell them to then throw that out and go look at what else inspires them, like rooms or movie posters or, you know, whatever.

Because this— sorry, the first part of that cut out. So you tell them, wait, make a list of what—

okay, I tell them to go pin who they are, and I say go, go pin a few branding, like, logos so I can see what your style is. But like, don't expect you to pin and say, I want this logo, just put my name in it. 'Cause again, that's not gonna fly and it's not gonna stick. You know, when people ask me like, well, how have you been able to do these logos? Like, what made you think of this branding? And it's always the story, it's always the meaning. I always push my clients that their logo and their branding should look completely different from anyone else's. Like, you don't wanna look like your competitors. Like, yes, you want it to be beautiful and unique and you, but like, so when you're looking with a designer, if they say, well, send me all your competitors so we can do something like that, well, that's a warning sign, right? Like, I ask them to send me their competitors so I can look and be very clear that I'm not ever, like, we're not even encroaching upon that, you know? But just, I think uniqueness is really, really important more and more as it becomes more and more oversaturated. Which is not a problem, or it's a good creative opportunity, then you really do have to be more clear about what is your style and what are your competitors and really be clear. If you know your story, then you can find something totally unique that is you. And that would be, you know, a designer would really help you with that. So, and then the last probably tip I have is to pay where it counts. When you're starting a company, there are so many resources that are free to you. And so many that are wonderful. I feel like sometimes we get in this trap of like, well, this person did this. So I know I need to do this. And I want to look like this. And so all of a sudden, you've spent so much money, but then you don't even know what you're paying for. So like, for example, when you're starting out, don't hire a social media manager, you should do it yourself, because you need to know what people are responding to. It needs to be your voice. They need to hear you. It has to be you. So like, that's another thing is I don't believe anyone starting a company should pay for custom website. And knowing— know this, that I design websites for a living. But I'm just saying, when people come to me and they want to hire me for a website, I I normally tell them, if you haven't been running a website for a few years, I'm not gonna do it for you. Just because I feel like I would be taking their money and it's not, I just think there's so many amazing, there's Squarespace, there's Wiki, there's, or not Wiki.

There's Wix.

There's good templates out there.

There's Wix.

Just get something that works, yeah. There's so, so many. There's like more all the time. And you can create your own website and save so much money. And maybe you need to get someone like your sister or your cousin to come sit down and help you set it up. Well, that's fine. Maybe you hire a designer to help you set it up. But don't be spending money for a custom website because on your little phone, websites all look 90% the same. And until you are spending, unless you're having thousands of people on your site because you're a shopping site, or you're a specialized blog, until you get to that point, you do not need custom widgets or custom part of your website. You just don't. And so I've seen people spend anywhere from $5,000 to $100,000 on websites that they shouldn't have paid for. So don't waste your money on a website when you're starting. So that's, that's another area I wouldn't pay for. Where I would pay is a lawyer, definitely, only because—

didn't I— didn't tee that up?

She just, she just— I really, um, that has been a huge part of— I've had a lot of friends who've chosen not to get lawyers and they signed contracts and have worked so hard and built other people's companies. And, um, that is one thing I've never signed a document without having a lawyer going through it, and that has saved me so much grief and a lot of money. So, um, pay for a lawyer. Um, also I did try to do a lot of like an accountant would be worth it if you're like— I remember trying to set up stuff on my own and having a lot of problems, um, as we mentioned, my accounting background not being stellar. So that is one area where I think sometimes that's worth paying for as well. And then I do think it's worth paying for a designer, but maybe not for what you would think. I think it's really important to have a good logo and a brand, but again, it may not be everything you need right away. Like, you can start with a pretty simple logo, and then when you really know what you are and what you need, then hire a designer. But, and if you already know what you have, then yes, hire a designer. Branding, I think, is, your logo is important and your aesthetic. And if you are shipping stuff out to people, it is important that you have a consistent look and that will really help. But don't be afraid of hustling for a year, saving up, getting a good designer, and then growing. People wanna see your brand growing. No one's gonna be upset for a redesign. No one's gonna be shocked or upset with you if you change a logo. I just think, These are the things that I work with my clients in, you know, day in and day out of rebranding. I do work with a lot of startups and I will say I love working with startups and those who do have the money to hire a designer, I do think it makes a big impact at the beginning. You know, we've had some really great companies who've been able to pay for things right at the beginning, but I am very clear with them. I try to always be clear and say like, I'm so glad you'd be willing to pay for me for this, but this is actually not, you do not spend money on that you absolutely don't have to. Like save that money 'cause you will need it.

Exactly. So those are all such good tips, Mel. So thank you so much for sharing, you know, everything from the research to knowing your why and knowing what information needs to move forward, you know, what you need to be paying attention to and what you need to so that you can distinguish yourself. Um, and then making sure your money is— you're being smart about where you're using your money, um, and your resources. So yeah, all, all the way around. So So, so good. Okay, so if people want to connect more with you, if they want to work with you, if they want to hire you so they can have some of your amazing skills in their wheelhouse, how should people connect?

So on Instagram, it's Melanie Burke, no E on the Burke, just Melanie Burke.

Just have some bit of a strong feelings about—

Yes, yes. I just don't want you to find the wrong Melanie Burke. Yeah, so Melanie Burke, and then you can email me hi@melanieburke.com. And yeah, it would be really fun. I love, love, love, love working with startups and small companies. That is one of my favorite things to do.

That's why you're jammed, and you're very good at it. I mean, you guys, you know, I think it's unfortunate that you don't always get to see, you know, designers don't always get like picture credit like photographers do. But I mean, you know, you've seen her work on Woven Pair of Socks and on, you know, London Little, like rain boots. And the Freshly Picked logo. You guys know Freshly Picked?

That's Melanie.

That was Melanie.

And Tubby's Farm. And Gigi Pip. And there's a lot of new fun ones coming out too.

Yeah, some really amazing work. Well, thank you so much, Melanie, for jumping on and doing this. Even, you know, we struggled. We had some tech issues tonight, some audio issues, but Because why, why wouldn't it be when you get to talk to your best friend?

Yes. You know, the audio will try out on you.

We will, we will overcome. So thank you so much, Mel, for joining us.

Yes, thank you for having me.

Okay, didn't you guys just love Melanie? Melanie is such an infectious, happy attitude towards life. You know, you would never know talking and hearing from Melanie that, you know, she suffers from hyperemesis, meaning when she gets pregnant, which she's done 5 times already, that she's got 5 children. She actually has a— she had a little rainbow baby that she lost. Um, anyway, she gets like deathly ill, like non-functioning, throwing up every day. I can't even imagine. Um, that's just, you know, a total sidebar. Um, sorry, Mel, if you didn't want me to share that, because, because I just did. Um, but I, I love Melanie so much, and so I was— it was a real treat to have her on and to get to talk in this context and kind of have us, um, you know, focus a little bit on in her work and how that can help you in your branding. So I hope you get a chance to kind of sink into her tips. If you were on the go listening to this episode and you didn't get a chance to take any notes and you'd like to have Melanie's kind of key takeaways, her branding tips that she had for you, which, you know, this is coming from a professional, a girl who has, you know, worked with high, high-level, top-level brands, even from some of their early initial stages, to help them, coach them through as they reclaim and develop and unfold their brand identity. Into what it is today. Um, but if you want those tips, you can get those because I made a handout for you. That's how much I love you guys, okay? That I would go into Canva and I would take the time to make this beautiful handout. I mean, I don't know if it's that beautiful. It's— it is what it is, okay?

Um, I—

anything that looks beautiful, by the way, on my feed or in any of my branding is because of Melanie. So Melanie is who I hired to get my stuff in order. So if you guys have seen my business cards, or some you've commented that you like my colors and anyway, all of that stuff and my cute graphics. Thanks, Mel. That was all her. So, so you can get those notes at brittanyrettell.com/46. Okay, because this is episode 46. So that's what you can get that you can download that you can also get added to my email newsletter, which is a fantastic resource that's going to have tips and tricks. It's going to have links for you. It's going to have good stuff that I am finding, harvesting out in this big entrepreneurial universe, and that I'm bringing to your attention. And I don't bring things to your attention unless I think they're going to be useful to you and your growing creative business, okay? I'm not here to waste your time. Ain't nobody got time for that, least of all me, okay? So thanks so much for tuning in. If you have not left a rating or review, or you're not subscribed, let's get on that, okay? I know I gotta beat that dead horse, that's part of the podcaster game, but I'd love to get— I have 40 ratings right now, 40. I'd love to get that to like 100 by the end of the year. I know that's a really lofty goal. That means that each one of you— but I know there's more than that people who listen, okay, because I look at the numbers. So if each one of you left a rating and review, and/or if you shared this podcast, if you sent it to someone, any of the ones that have touched you, whether it was this episode or something else that you listened to that you think would be helpful when you share about it in your stories, when you pass it along in DMs, whatever the format you feel comfortable with. Um, it just, it really helps bring awareness and legitimacy to the podcast and lets people know that this can be a great resource for them too, to try to dig in and to do better in their business, and to have someone who's on their team who's here for the creatives, who's here for the artists, who's here for the small little businesses, um, to make sure that someone is looking out in your corner for you guys. And that you can have access to the kind of professionals and mentorship and guidance and, um, and tools that you need to grow your business so it can support the big beautiful dreams that you have for it. So, okay, I'll get off my soapbox now. Have a fantastic week and I'll catch you guys on the flip side.