Create a Positive Company Culture with Founder of Thirst and Dottie's Kolaches, Sierra McCleve

But what we try to do with both businesses is let them know this is actually how it works. Like, I work for every single one of you, and my job is to get you the tools and the education you need to do your job super, super well. So let's not get it confused.

Welcome to Creative Counsel with Brittany Rettell. I'm your host, Brittany, an attorney for creatives who believes in solid contracts and cute office supplies and who wants to empower you to be a more confident business owner. Whether you're a creative influencer, maker, artist, shop owner, or content creator, you are not just a blank. You are a real bona fide business owner. So let's help you own your business and get you legally legit with Britt. Hello listeners, and welcome back. I'm so excited to have today Sierra McLeve, and she is a multi-passionate entrepreneur and owner of two booming Utah-based food businesses, Thirst and Dottie's Kalashis. She's also a mom, a wife, a garage gym fitness enthusiast, and she's looking to make a positive dent in this world. Sierra knows that the successful small businesses start with a solid company culture,, and she's excited to teach others the strategies and tools she's used to keep her businesses open and thriving for more than 7 years. When it comes to the rules, Sierra is a bit of a rebel and she likes it that way. So I am so pleased to have her joining us here on Creative Council. Welcome Sierra.

Hey Brittany, super happy to be here.

Thank you. Awesome. You can tell from that bio Sierra is just, she's a spark plug and I love the energy and vitality she brings to now 2 really successful businesses here in Utah in the food and beverage space. But we'd love to have you take us back a little bit and let us know how you got started. I think Dottie's came first, correct? And then Thirst grew from that. So walk us a little bit down that memory lane of your entrepreneurship story. Okay, Brittany, when I was in third grade, I had a lemonade stand and it was awesome.

Yeah, mine was a lawn mowing business and I think, and I made, I used clip art to to make a poster by our mailboxes, and I'm pretty sure one person took a card.

Hey, it was probably Microsoft Word, and it was probably a strong graphic and branding, I'm sure.

Okay, I always knew I do have kind of an interesting background for having a bakery because I always— people always ask, oh my gosh, is it your dream to be a baker? And I'm like, no, it sure wasn't. And they're like, this is— this got weird.

And they're like, uh, now awkward pause. They're like, no, who wants to get up at 4 AM every morning to go bake? Who, who in their right mind Hands up for that. Oh yeah.

But I did always know that I wanted to own my own business and really it did start like that young. I would always have ideas and always trying to figure out how to make money. And I guess when you look back, create value and just find that thing, that need that people wanted and then try to figure out how to solve that need. So with Dottie's, it's really random. I was going to do a soda shop. I did high school and college in St. George. I watched SWIG happen. I watched SWIG with 0 cars in line for quite a few years to 20, 25 in line. So I was going to do that. I was looking at Heber because my mom lived there and Heber is a small town in Utah for those who aren't aware, very small town in Utah. My mom lived there. My sisters are quite a bit younger, like 14 years younger. So I wanted to be close to them. And we looked at this building and the guy was selling kolaches there. And have you ever had a kolache?

I have. They're delicious.

Okay. So, you know, like you try one and in Utah, at least at the time, no one was doing kolaches. It's a Czech pastry. It's a slightly sweet dough, usually with like sweet fillings, but there's also the savory version. I tried one, couldn't stop thinking about it. Went back to St. George, thought there was something very special in the dough that I wasn't going to ask about yet, but I was just like, why can't I stop thinking about this?

You're like hoping it's not like a special illegal something that you're not going to be able to replicate. You're like, hope, you know, we're not Colorado here. Come on.

Yeah. I know, especially at that time. No, it's all legal. I found out later, but at the time, none of the soda shops were doing any food. There was one, another one, and I— that's pretty popular right now— opened the same month. But I was like, one primary soda shop, they were doing cookies and that's it. So I thought it'd be a good differentiator. Very quickly learned that kolaches were our thing with that business because it was more unique. There were no other kolache shops in Utah at that time. Now there's one more. There's 2 of us and probably a couple others I haven't checked in a couple of years, but it was just the more unique, fun thing. And so I flew to Texas, ate like 80 kolaches in a weekend and decided, I guess I'm going to wake up at 4:00 AM and this is going to be your life now.

Yeah. Poor Sierra with her extensive market research and never looked back.

Yeah. So I, I did that for, let's see, 2013 to 2017. 2016, 3 years. And then started Thirst with my business partner, Ethan. I still had that scratch to itch about that soda market. Like it's very, it was very saturated at the time we opened, but I thought that we could differentiate on a couple of ways. And I still just wanted to win. I'm pretty competitive. Ethan's also extremely competitive. So we make a good team in that way. And we started that in 2016 and So we're going to be— it's our 4-year anniversary this month. And we just opened our second location in Mill Creek.

That's awesome.

And we got in Vivint SmartHome Arena where the Jazz play when they were playing games with humans there.

And when sports was the thing and people went out and, you know, drank and had a fun time. Remember those days? 2019.

What a dream. 2020. I've got fingers crossed for 2020. So that's the gist of my story so far.

Yeah. And was Ethan a partner in Dottie's as well?

He's not. So he contacted me. He was like a junior in high school and I had this shaved ice shack for sale and he called me and I knew I liked him right away because he was very driven and he was just trying to talk me into renting him this thing and like how could he get his hands on this thing because he didn't have like however much it was like $8,000 or something.

He didn't have the capital but he had the hustle for sure.

Yeah, and he was very motivated and I was like, look, I did shaved ice at Dottie's for a little while. I'd be happy to partner up on it. I can't just rent it to you because there's a lot of costs involved in moving it, but I'd partner up on it. So we, we did 2 summers, almost 3, 2 summers, maybe 3 of shaved ice. And then it was either open up 20 more to actually make money. Or I said, I would still do a soda shop. I think we could crush it. I think we could differentiate. And he found the location downtown Salt Lake, stumbled on it with a buddy and there was no drive-through drinks down there. And it's such a thing in Utah. Like, I'm sure your audience is all over, so I don't know if they can really understand this.

They can appreciate the love of the soda that Utah has. Take this, a lot of places like here, I am in the Pacific Northwest, like it's the coffee shack. It's every corner, like people have it. That's what you do. So just take that and pretend that it's selling soda instead. It's just, it's the temperature of caffeine is the joke is that's the only difference.

Yeah, that's exactly it. So it's a thing, but so in downtown Salt Lake, there was nothing. Okay. We want to own Salt Lake. So like our hashtag for a while was like #WeAreSLC. One of my shirts says #ThirstyInSLC. So like we wanted to grab that entire market and we're finally able to open our second one just outside of like downtown Salt Lake.

So that's awesome. That's amazing, especially in food and beverage because the restaurant business is tough. You're dealing with tough margins, not a whole lot. And then you're usually the, the kind of team and people you're working with are pretty entry level. And so you get a whole range of attitudes and skills. Skills and trying to build that together and have that consistent customer experience. What's worked for you guys? How have you been able to make that look like the way you wanted it to look?

Yeah, having a plan from the very beginning was really important to me. So when we were talking about Thirst, and I did this with Dottie Sue, and I loved— okay, I did, I stalked you a little bit because why wouldn't I? And so I love the podcast with the VP on E-Myth. E-Myth is one of my E-Myth Revisited is one of my bibles. I've given that away so much and recommend it.

Yeah, I've given it away too. And I recommend it to everyone. Yeah. I took it in entrepreneurship class at BYU and it was one of the books we studied and just hashed out because it's amazing.

So having a plan from the beginning, like I knew what I wanted Dottie's to feel, to taste, to smell like. And I walked, Ethan and I walked through that entire process with Thirst2, like how do we want someone to feel when someone walks in? How do we want it to smell? Smell. Like we are legitimately looking into pumping certain smells, like very Disneyland-esque.

People do it. They do it. Movie theaters have been onto this game for years. Like it is no accident that they are pumping that popcorn smell. Yeah.

We give away free popcorn at the shop too. So I think that helps. But so we were very clear, what do we want to look like and feel like from the beginning? And I came from a sales background where I just learned what I never wanted to experience again in company culture. I learned a lot of good things and the sales background has helped a lot and I learned a lot of lessons from that company. But I knew how I wanted to feel first from an employee standpoint. And that's one of our mottos is employee satisfaction is like number one. And we believe that will translate to the customer experience, customer satisfaction, and even quality of products. But that's first. So we had that very clear vision from the beginning. And I think if you can see it and taste it in your mind, even before maybe it's even remotely a thing, even before it's an infant of an idea, I think you're more set up for success. That's what we're trying deliberately to do that from the beginning. And then we had something to lean on. Does it follow our core values? Is this— we can make other decisions based on that.

But this is a framework that we're going to operate in as this space is that we go back to, this is the skeleton, the foundation, this is your why. And you guys, you know, felt like you'd really honed in on that.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Primary aim, like all of the E-Myth Revisited stuff we did. And I actually, when I listened to your podcast, I was so happy. I was pedaling on my bike and I was like, it has been so long since I've done Primary Aim and I'm going to do it now.

So thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. No, I love talking to Tricia. And I think the folks at eMyth are really just really smart and they just, they love it and they're committed to— they've been doing business coaching and this kind of stick before, way before it's become— they've been around for decades now. And I love their commitment to entrepreneurship. And it's seriously, it's they're timeless lessons. We need to think about how you can get yourself out of just being the technician in your business because you can only go so far. So what did that look like for you? Were you the one, I'm sure originally doing everything for Dottie's and you were the one making the food and selling the food. How did you get yourself out of that and start building that relationship and knowing, look, other people are going to have to take on this role so I can build this the way I want it to be.

I knew that was the goal from the beginning and it is hard. We absolutely— I even made the org chart, just like they say, make the org chart, your names in all the boxes at first.

And then it seems a little silly.

Yeah, it does seem silly. Cause you're like, okay, I knew all this, but it gives you a clear direction and kind of roadmap as to, okay, first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to get a baker. That's exactly what I did. I started with a baker, which was good, but there were times when that person would leave, was no longer there. And it was just me. So then you're backfilling. So just working your way on that org chart.. And I think honestly not wanting to be a baker helped because I was a, I was able to look at the business. I'm still able to look at the business as a business. Whereas a lot of people who are really good technicians and love baking and they're passionate about it, like why would they let that go? And me, I'm like, take it please. And you'll probably make it even better. Like I can make 3 things, 4 things really good now. And I'm super grateful. And some of my most zen moments have been at 4:30 AM and I do love it now, but I was able to step away and also get your ego out of the way and be like, I know people can do this better than me. So doing that, it's a challenge though. It's hard and it is a lot of work and it's a process, but just having that game plan. And probably the hardest part for me is I do best in the entrepreneurial and the technician role. When I have to wear my manager hat, that's That one's a challenge for me.

That one's hard. The manager hat I think is tough for most people. I think, yeah, I think that you're not in the— you're, you're in the solid majority camp there that it's hard to manage, especially other human beings and to make and to deal with fires and problems that are going on and people and personalities and bad days. And yeah, we talked a little bit about this in preparation talking today, but tell me a little bit about what, when you've had problems, like what happened? Like you had a fridge go out at Dottie's. How do you handle that?

Something like that? That one was rough. That was mid-peak corona time for where we were. Oh gosh. So what I said, I popped on my stories and talked about this. One thing that I've learned is it's very painful, but it actually is very liberating, is everything is your fault. And so with the fridge going out, that was significant for us because there's a freezer— no, it was a fridge. It was a fridge. We have on our checklist to check the temperature. We have a face to document it. So it would be very easy to point the blame at someone else. And I've done that a lot. I did that a lot early. I think I do that less now, but I get mad and frustrated. But what does that do? It doesn't help anything. We had a significant amount of product that we lost. We had to get a certain amount of, I think, lunches out. It was a wholesale account. We were on a strict deadline. It doesn't help to get mad. So what I try to do in those scenarios is own it. It was my fault. I'm going to table that for later and figure out what I can do better later. But how can I solve the problem? And help everyone regroup because everyone was scrambling and just, oh my gosh, we lost all this dough. We have to do all these lunches, but it's okay. It's not going to help if I come in angry. So that energy, I have a little team huddle. This is what we're going to do. This is how we're going to solve it. I need you working on this. You work on this. You guys let me know what you need from me because I'm here to help. And that's helped us recover in those situations much, much quicker as opposed to someone just in prior things, just getting mad and like, making everyone feel like crap. It doesn't help. And that's going to trickle the entire day. Whereas you have, you might have a crappy 30 minutes, hour instead of 12 hours. Get over it quick and then recover.

Fail fast, feel the awful feelings, and then let them, and then let them wash out. And then how can we get going with what we need to get going?

Yeah, we're gonna, we still have customers and our core values are still to leave them better. And how are we gonna provide that exceptional customer experience if everyone's ticked off and worried about this? So like, we still have these people to help make their day a little bit brighter. So let's regroup real quick, make a game plan and go. And that's just, that's happened a lot. I had a mixer go out on the day before Thanksgiving or day before Thanksgiving Eve. I did a whole bunch of pre-orders for Thanksgiving. My mixer went out at 11:00 PM. Like you just have to take a deep breath and be like, okay, what is the first step I need to do to fix this situation? Don't worry about anything in 12 hours. Worry about it right now. And I think that translates to a lot of different businesses.

Yeah, for sure. So even if your business is, you don't have mixers going out, you have something that goes wrong. And I think chunking it down to what's the next thing that I can do to help, not letting yourself wander too much in the future, but just saying the next thing. And I love what you said and repeating, especially about owning it. I think that's easily, way more easily said than easily done. Can you remember, or was there, it was just a process that got you to the place where you could just accept that and know that it's— so it was your fault. That didn't have to mean anything about you, but that it was important for you to just take ownership of it.

After I read the book Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink—

have you read that yet? No, I haven't read that yet, but I'm going to.

So yeah, it's in my top 5. Jocko Willink, Extreme Ownership. And I just love everything about that book. I listened to it probably 3 times when I first got it, but he really walks you through and it makes so much sense. One of his big things is discipline equals freedom. And I think that's part of it. Like Ethan and I do talk about it on our grams a lot. And luckily, like he's absorbed some of that and learned a lot of that on his own. But like the easier you can accept that it's your fault, the quicker you can take some steps to make it better. Whereas, and you have ownership, you have control over it. Whereas if it's someone else's fault, I have no control over that person. I have no ability to make this situation better if I'm pushing it out on other people. The hardest thing that I had to do, because it's so much easier, and you could have told someone 15 times to do something a certain way, but if they still don't do it, you're probably teaching them wrong, or perhaps they should no longer be in the business, and that's your fault.

And it's still your fault. Yeah, that's the thing. You either have a system— well, you have a system problem or a human problem, but it's still your problem.

Yeah. And it's just, it actually is really super liberating once you get past kind of that, I don't know, I don't know if it's ego or whatever it is that makes you not want to be wrong so much. But after that, it's super liberating because it's, oh, I can take an action and have a better result next time. And I can learn. It's been one of probably the biggest ahas of owning a business. And I think it absolutely translates to any business.

Yeah, I think that's a super critical thing. Okay. Where I'm going to add that I have a business kind of business book club. It was put, it was E-Myth was on there. I lost my weight during COVID It had to be put to the wayside as many things did. We all lost a lot of things.

Let's be honest.

A lot of things Things got dropped during COVID and that was one of them, but I did it. That'd be a fun one to dig into for sure. So yeah, tell me a little bit about, yeah, something else that I know that you've mentioned that you do with your managers to help keep you guys connected. Tell me about the manager updates and how you run those. Okay.

Let's see, manager updates. We do them a little bit differently at both places, but we try to really overcommunicate. So we have, uh, for Thirst, we have a Snapchat group. For the entire company. We have sub ones for our managers. We use Slack as well. And then I'm sure there's texting that goes on in between, but we try to use like those two and really try to over-communicate. There are meetings every Mondays that I have with the Dottie's team. Ethan has them on different days for Thirst, manager meetings. And then they are supposed to, for Dottie's, they are supposed to send out a video on every platform we have on what's going on for the week. And keeping the team really in the loop. That's been another hard lesson is I have so much going on and I can tell someone one way. And I think that they're going to absorb that information and push it out to the entire team. But perhaps people don't learn that way. Perhaps people need to read it. Perhaps people need to actually do it or see it. So we try to hit all those. We do a write-up in Slack, we do the video. And so my managers are supposed to do a manager video every update of every Monday. Letting the team know what's the weekend feature. Here are some issues we're having. Here's how we're fixing the line. We're going to get it flowing quicker. Here's the thing with the popcorn machine. So meetings are so important, but I don't believe in meetings just for the sake of meetings. Make sure they're effective use of time. Don't just sit there, get them on their way, get to the point. Make sure you as a business owner are letting them know, like, I'm here for you. Let me know what you need. And then let them go out and communicate that. And I think that builds up some confidence and respect for your managers too, if they're the ones communicating that.

So, and striking that right balance of giving them information that's critical, but also making yourself available. And I'm sure that comes over time. The more you do that, your managers feel like that they actually— that's— those aren't just empty words that you can— they can actually rely on it.

Yeah. And I think it helps to tell them a lot because everyone's really used to coming from a company who builds their company this way, where owners and managers are at the top of this pyramid and then everyone down below. But what we try to do with both businesses is let them know this is actually how it works. Like, I work for every single one of you, and my job is to get you the tools and the education you need to do your job super, super well. So let's not get it confused. And I think that gives them the ability to more quickly come to you with problems and issues that are going to be solved much quicker, as opposed to if they kept quiet because they're worried.

Cause they, yeah, because people are, they're defensive there or they're putting blame other places or yeah, they're just trying to hide it because they are afraid that this is going to come back to me. I'm the one who's going to get in trouble. And because of that, things persist over time.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think those just consistency with that, making the meetings really effective and clear, making sure they have an opportunity to ask any questions and just over-communicating to the team because we could send it twice in Snapchat. And, and once in Slack and still someone might miss it. So like really making sure that everyone's just getting the information.

When you're hiring, what's helped you know, to find good people that you want to work with at the manager level and the employee level?

We do a pretty thorough process actually. Like I think we probably do more than any other of this type of business because company culture and employee satisfaction is number one. We really want the right people on our team. So we have, We do a prescreen on the phone. We do opening interviews with a manager and then final interviews with owner or owner and manager. So there's a 3 or 4 step process for food. I don't know. I haven't really heard of that with food and beverage. And really it's, I think, asking the right questions and really getting a feel for that person and also just giving people a chance, but being protective of your company culture. I know that might Sound like I'm saying two different things, but I'm quicker to fire now too. And I wait to hire. So I like, I really want to make sure I hire the right person and not that I push them out the door quickly. I definitely give them enough training and make sure like everything that's my fault, but if they are causing issues with the team that could spread like cancer, I'm much more quick to shut it down than I used to be. And that's helped a lot too.

Yeah. That slow to hire, quick to fire. When it's not working, it's not serving either of you and recognizing that and being able to be fearless and be confident moving forward, making a decisive action.

Some things we try to do too is we try to really make this team feel like a family as quickly as possible. One thing I learned from Ethan was nicknames. So he, I think, learned that probably in his fraternity, but nicknames are huge. So we like give a nickname like day one, and I think it makes them feel like really like a team. And we try to do like team outings, and it's amazing to me to see how quickly they become close. And how often they're hanging out after work. It's really fun. And I think that comes from us just being deliberate on like, you're family now. Like, you're— here's the expectation. What's your expectation of us? And like, okay, let's have fun while we're being the best.

So yeah, that's awesome. So nicknames, team outings, what other things have helped build that positive, that team culture that you've liked? Yeah.

And that you're trying to strive for? Regular one-on-ones. So we try to schedule one-on-ones with the team. I try with Dottie's once a quarter to meet with every single person. Yeah, and Ethan, I bet he does— I bet he does like once every 2 months. He's just, he's just like times 20 on everything. I think it's not just the Red Bull that he drinks, it's like his personality.

It's a little bit of everything. Maybe it's just the icing on the cake.

Yeah, so that like when people care, like I can tell if I haven't checked in enough with someone I'm sure that it's down to a science of a percentage that they're going to bounce because they don't feel that connection. Maybe they don't feel appreciated. So definitely try to have regular one-on-ones scheduled, genuine ones, like where you're not just asking about their production. You're asking like, what do you like to do outside of work? I know you mentioned something about your mom getting surgery. How is she doing? Like real human things. And I think overappreciate, like overcommunicate on appreciation. And just be, what is it? How to Win Friends and Influence People, where he's like slow to criticize, praise, quick to praise. I try to teach that to my managers too, because a lot of these, a lot of the people that I have as managers are promoted within. They don't have a lot of experience, which is good because then they can be trained. I don't know. Is it weird to say how I want them to be?

Yeah, but they don't have a whole lot of bad habits and baggage from other organizations. So you get to be the one to be like, hey, Hey, here's how you can be a great manager. Let me see what we can get you, the toolbox you need.

Yeah. So teaching them how to do that as well, because everyone likes to feel appreciated and they take the criticism way more when they respect you and when you overpraise them on all the other good stuff they're doing.

You've put enough deposits in the bank, you know, that you can cash out a little bit with.

Yeah. So we do that. And I think everyone, you can tell it's so fun to see people so engaged in the business because they'll have ideas and you just can't wait to I'll tell you, it's my funnest thing. I'll pop in to Thirst and check in a couple times a week and they'll be like, hey, I have this idea, what do you think? Or like, hey, I made these pretzels, what do you think about it? It's so exciting. If you're not getting that, I think that could be a red flag. And the way that you get more of that is I think you genuinely listen and be like, oh, that's a really good idea. I'm gonna— like maybe they had a design for a shirt or something like that, but actually executing on it. Like how cool is that to like be part of a bigger company as employees and your idea gets heard, even. Yeah. That's valuable. So we really try to listen to ideas because a lot of them are way better than ours. And we know that, like, we're not going to have all the best ideas. So something we try to do as well.

That's awesome. Yeah. To feel like that they really have a true listening ear there, that they can be part of that larger vision and that company culture that they've wanted to be a part of that family and moving the ball forward. Absolutely. That's awesome. So what do you do when you're, in a funk yourself? We've talked about building this positive culture when we're dealing with other people, but what happens when you're having a bad day and you still gotta show up and bring your A-game? What does that look like for you?

This, it actually looks like me being in the shop a lot less. I actually stay away. I did a little story on this one time. I was having, it was a really bad day because I don't, I'm much better now, but my manager, well, anyone can tell when I'm not in a great mood because I usually come in like singing and dancing and being pretty weird. And if I'm not, they're like, What's wrong? So one thing I've learned to do is go in, try not to disrupt too much, because when I get upset, and I think this could be the case for a lot of people, the littlest things will just irritate me. Like, why is the espresso machine not cleaned perfect?

Or—

and then I'll say it, and it doesn't really help anybody. Like, they've probably been slammed with 20 cars and this is their first break, and I'm going to come in and complain. They just put out 30 coffees and I'm going to come and complain that there's like grinds on them.

Counter.

It's silly. So I try to stay away. I'll go in, take care of business. Do you guys need anything from me? Make sure they have what they need. And then I'll tell my manager or shift lead, like, I'm going to be out for a couple hours because it's best for everyone. I'm going to go on a walk. I'm going to go on a run or something. But if you need me, call me until I answer. But that's why I'm not going to be here all morning. So I try to do that. And I've been much better about, like, my overall stress management, which for me is daily Exercise has been a thing this last year, but those two things for sure, I try to just stay away.

Yeah. And put up boundaries. You recognize, look, I'm not going to bring the greatest energy here. And so it's the best thing I can do is it reminds me a lot. I follow, she's so cute online, Tabitha, and she closes everything. She always says, baby, go have a good day, but if you can't have a good day, don't you dare go messing up anyone else's. Yes.

And I love that. Are you talking about Tabitha Brown? Yes.

Isn't she amazing? She's the cutest vegan. Vegan you have ever seen.

So, yeah. OK, I found her on TikTok and I probably have commented like, I just want you to be my grandma.

Seriously. I am like, can we do, is it too late for Tabitha for 2020? Can we write her in?

Tabitha, we love you. If you are ever listening to this, I just—

we love you so much. But I just, I love that because it is, yeah, you know what? Go have a great day. And if that is just not in the cards for you, the best thing you can do is just not go around a bull in a china shop and mess up other people. Just because you can.

I think it's a good litmus test too, because if you can't step away from your business for a day or for an afternoon, you need to work on your systems because— and your trust. You need to trust that your people are going to get it done. And if they're not, and you haven't set them up for success, when you're feeling better, go set them up for success so that they can just run and you can just go.

Gosh, I love that. Yeah, it is. It's a total good stress test. Because if it can't function, then, you know, a good system will buckle under stress. And that means you need to build a better system. You haven't gotten there yet, you keep tinkering with it, read the E-Myth again.

So can I ask, do I get to ask you some questions? Yeah, sure. How do you, because you're like, I would imagine you have a lot of client meetings in the day too.

I do, yeah. I have a lot of a mix of your work and then like phone calls and stuff.

Yeah, Zoom. So you may not have the luxury to be like, uh, peace out, we're gonna move this to a different day. So how do you, if you're having an off day, how do you regroup and get ready for that next meeting? Because it's a lot of It's a lot of, yeah, trying to be on.

Yeah, you know what, I have some quick things for me. I like throwing on a bright pair of lipstick, can give me a little boost, maybe a little treat or something that I like to eat, or listening to— I really, I love music and I love to sing, and so I know that for me, if I can at least just listen quickly and get that, I can get myself back in a better headspace. And honestly, for me, if I get to interact with people in person, I'm— it's hard, pretty hard for me to be in a bad mood. I like people and I'm an extrovert, so I really enjoy the human interaction and being able to help people. It's more when I get too far removed from that and I'm stuck in documents and extensive briefing, writing, contract review, that it's easier for me to slip into getting a funk that I'm like, this is ridiculous, why am I doing this? I made a huge mistake. I should have, I should have been a baker. I shouldn't go to law school. I can bake like pies. But yeah, that, that kind of intensity of, yeah, 4 in the morning, it also probably wouldn't be a good fit for me.

Lack of sleep contributes to some hard days, but One thing I've noticed, if there's external factors, like I'm having a bad day because of like personal stuff, actually, if I go in and do technician work at the shop, I'm much better. Not just because of the work, but that focus is so good. But the team is just, they're so fun. And there's been, I can't even count on my hands and my toes how many times I've gone in a crappy mood and left in a better mood at both places. And then I'm just filled with so much gratitude because I don't know if a lot of people have that experience. So Yeah, pretty interesting.

And then I think that speaks volumes for you and your ability to play the glad game in the most non-cheesy Pollyanna way possible in terms of like, in this human interaction that I'm with people, how can I use what I can here to refuel me and to charge me up? How can this charge my batteries and not drain me in the other way? Yeah, because I work remotely and I don't have any coworkers, so I miss that part of it sometimes, but I am also really lucky that I have lots of friends online. And I'm really grateful for social media because it's put me into contact with other business owners and people who work in my space, in the creative field and startup field, that I have those business besties that I can connect with and get recharged.

Yeah, digitally. How did you help supplement that during quarantine? Because you just claimed you're an extrovert. I'm way more of an extrovert than I ever thought. I had a really hard time, and I'm technically an introvert. Yeah.

So how did you— oh, quarantine was rough. I kept on sending that meme around of check on your extrovert friends. They are not okay. Yes. Yes. Because I was not okay because I was at home with my 4 kids who I love dearly. But man, and it was still bad weather season where I live. And so I couldn't even just send them outside. And those were some long days. Basically, I got through— I've already finished like 35 books for the year. So that basically was my coping mechanism, just pure young adult romance fiction escapism at its best.

Good. Good. I started doing a lot of Instagram Lives, like with other people. That's where times— what it ended up being so fun. And I actually, I want to continue it, but no, that's super fun.

I was on actually two different like Instagram Live shows. Alison's show had one of those where you had to like name a song or something, which that one I was pretty good at. So that was really fun. She's a, she's a fun friend client of mine. And the other one was just like a talk show by Elise. She's the co-founder of Bravery Magazine. She's hilarious too. So she had another one where we just got to get on and chat. And I actually showed up on her live wearing my Britney Spears loofahs on my head just to shake things up, just to set the groundwork of like how much of a serious professional I am always. You gotta lighten the mood. You gotta add some levity. We can't take ourselves so seriously. Yes, we can take our business seriously, but we don't need to take ourselves so seriously. For sure. So I wanted to touch again, because you mentioned that you are in a space where you have competitors. How have you handled that? How have you kept that in check in terms of fueling you to still press forward, to being a positive thing instead of worrying? Because it's easy, I think, to feel, to feel threatened, to take things personally, to get stuck on, oh, they're copying me. And yeah, that can be, it can be a hard dance there.

Oh, I love this topic so much. You can stop me if I get too amped up. In the beginning, it was very hard. I was checking on everyone. I think it's okay in the beginning. I think it's okay to do your research. And then at a certain point, I think you stop checking on them. You have to trust in your abilities and your creativity enough to like really be like, I'm not even going to check on them anymore, really. Like you can check to see maybe where they're popping up. It depends on the space. But in the beginning, I was very much like, what did they post? What are they doing? I counted cars originally to see if it was a viable business model. So I counted cars and I figured out their rep per customer to see like, Yeah, real. That was good. Now what we do, like, we have had people copy us for sure. Ethan and I will send texts and just— from the beginning, like, he would get very fired up too. And I was just like, it's the biggest form of flattery. If they're gonna do it, it's fine because we— the way we've built our business and try to build our business and really regularly have conversations with our team about our business is on customer experience. And unless you are— unless that's like in your blood of your business, it's so hard to achieve, and I still don't, it's a work in progress for us that I just am not worried about other people doing that now.

And replicating it. Yeah, that's so true. People can copy signage and they can copy the name of your drink. FYI, make sure you looked for trademark to make sure people haven't trademarked certain types of drink or the ways that you would add drinks. That's a lesson for another time in terms of litigation. But yeah, it's very, yeah, we could talk about that, I'm sure. People have seen some things in the Soda Wars, but it's very difficult. Yeah. Like you said, to copy what someone feels, what they smell, how, what their conversation was at the person who was checking them out.

And I think it just, there comes a point where, where you just, I don't know, we reached a point where, yeah, we were checking on them all the time. And did you see where they popped up and do you see what they posted? Like they copied our drink, whatever. And there comes a point where you just need to stop and then really just dive into your innovation and go hard. And that's what we've done. We went really hard. We brought in, we brought in one of my favorite things that we've done is I always wanted to bring in other local businesses because you can only talk about soda and cookies so much. Like it's like, it gets just so mundane. And so I was like, I want to highlight these other local businesses that are doing amazing hand pies and doing amazing like ice cream cookies because it's building up that business. It's creating that local space, that community. And it gives us something else to talk about.

Yeah.

That's been the funnest thing to come from that innovation of don't look at, let's stop looking at what other people are doing. And let's really rely on our creativity and the creativity of our team to go do something a little bit different or a little bit better or a little bit like outside the box. Because like, why would anyone want to keep going to the same place that just has different names and get the same experience? Like, it'll work. You can have a business model and copy others and give it in a location where there's not one, but it's much more fun and exciting to create that brand that like people look forward to that differentiates you from everyone else. And I think we've done a pretty good job of that. It's been deliberate. It's been fun. There's been a lot of lessons. We've made a lot of mistakes, but we've learned a lot along the way.

Yeah, no, I can agree with that. And it seems people who, when they talk about thirst, your fans are hardcore. People love going to— they are, they are intense. I think I was watching because Abby, Carol for President, is moving, and I know she is mourning because she's had you guys in her in her backyard for a year. Yeah. And you could just tell she's, it's not going to be the same. Look at this blessed line moving on. But, but no, I think you agree that it's, you need to maybe do some of that inner work of having the confidence to rely on your own ideas and go forward and have developed that voice, that vision, because it's, you are the only person who's going to be able to see what you can. But if you're looking forward, then you, yeah, like you said, don't have to be looking so much side to side. There's a place for that, but it's probably not as big as place.

As you think it is.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think you get that confidence. I've thought a lot about like how to get that confidence because it's something I still work on. But the nice thing about this type of business or any sales type of business is the dollars are actually in the receipt. So you can see from your efforts on a huge weekend campaign, on a huge monthly campaign, did that pay off? And did it pay off? Then that should give you more confidence in your ability to do it again and again. And if it's not, it's okay, but look where your weaknesses are and find people to help you fill those weaknesses to perhaps come better, become better. And then that should give you confidence in your ability to solve that problem.

Yeah. Yeah. And how have you done that? I'm sure in food and beverage, you guys have to do quite a bit of forecasting, and I'm sure that's one of the biggest struggles is trying to manage that load because you're dealing with small margins. You can't, you order a bunch of food and then it's crickets. You're eating all of that. What have you found or what are some of your best practices? Practices that you've developed?

I think some of the best things that we've done, like in the first year of business, we were basically open every day. So then we can see what does Veterans Day look like? What does the day after Thanksgiving look like? You can actually have those numbers instead of just being, I'm going to take it off. So in this type of industry for the first year, I would recommend try to be open like all those days to see, because you're going to be able to recognize your forecasting and your volumes and your own little algorithm based on past. Quarantine, corona was very different.

Curveball, unprecedented times, the theme of 2020.

Yeah, we were being a drive-through business during corona was bonkers and it was the craziest thing and I feel super blessed and grateful because ours is like a miracle story. But so gathering that data, so you have to have data, so make sure you're open and then some of it's a gamble. Like some of our weekend features, we have to guarantee a sale or we have to order a certain amount and For the food stuff, I think we found the most success in— if it's a first-time thing, perhaps order a little bit less because it looks good to sell out.

Like, within— really, you want people leaving and wanting a little more.

And if it goes way crazy, like, just communicate with your customers and pop on and be like, oh my gosh, like, we were expecting good numbers, but holy smokes, you guys rocked it! We'll have them back again soon. Thank you so much. And sometimes you just have to eat it, and it's It's tough. So I would say gather your data. It's going to give you information. Then if you're doing other products that are similar, you're going to have a better idea, but you just have to dive in. And in food, you do have small margins. So I would say make sure your marketing is really on point for whatever thing you're adding to your menu. And then don't be scared to sell out, but just communicate with your customers. They're really understanding if they know. If they don't know and you have not communicated anything, they might be upset.

And they start maybe assuming the worst. Yeah. In the, in the absence of good data from you, they will, if you're not giving them a good story, they'll make up their own and it may or may not be positive. Yeah, for sure. What are the other, other challenges besides forecasting and have you guys had any legal challenges or other kind of like conflict things that you've tried to resolve as you've been building and scaling these businesses that's been tough?

Not, let's see, probably the most difficult thing is really the management of people and hiring, like staffing, not necessarily keeping people on board because I feel like we've really honed in on that. But I think the manager hat ability to like really handle all those HR things and continue to have the energy to go out and do everything else that you need to do. That's a challenge sometimes. It's, it can be a challenge when the staffing's not right and figuring that out is difficult at first. At first you're doing everything and you hire one and that's scary because like payroll now, and then maybe you need 2, and then maybe you're opening another location. But how— it's— that's a challenge. And I think just that's when you have to put on your ownership hat and be like, hey, I gotta fill in all these gaps no matter what. It's gonna be fine. Like, just deal with it and do it. Legal stuff— we had one company pop up with a very similar name. I actually was gonna check on them right before this because I haven't in a while. I think they just disappeared, but it was very close to our name, and it was they use the orange color too. And so I was like, I was fired up.

Ethan was like, a little too close there, come on.

But I think, I'm pretty sure like they just went away. They just, they were in another state too. But that was one where I was like, that's too close for comfort to me with what we want to do with this company and the reach we want to have. Like, it's far now, but it won't be far soon.

So yeah, so we got to keep our eye on that. Yeah, luckily we haven't had— yeah, protect that runway. Yeah.

Yeah, luckily we haven't had anything major with that. And I'm going to definitely open some type of tab with you and some type of relationship with you to get some consult because I'm sure we have some gaps. I know we have some gaps that need to be taken care of.

Oh, but it sounds like, I mean, you guys have been, you know what, here's the thing. Yes, there are, there's a role for legal in your business, but there's also a role in just being a good human. And like you said, developing good relationships with people because that's the best conflict and risk management I can say is be a good human, be honest, take ownership of your mistakes and treat treat your people well, and guess what? They're probably going to do the same. They're going to give you the benefit of the doubt. And if there's a problem, it's— you're going to know about it and you're going to take reasonable steps to solve it. When that is not there and we don't have good trust in an organization, that's when people hide stuff and they do sketchy things. And they— whether it's to their customers or to the other employees, and that's creating bigger and bigger headaches. And yeah, that's—

and then that's where you get the big scary legal bills is from stuff like that. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think you have to, you just have to think about that. Think about your SWOT analysis, what's the biggest threat, and then really take care of that stuff. Because even if you're small on Etsy right now, I love the idea of thinking about everything as a franchise and how could this negatively affect me later? And it gives you a lot of peace of mind to address it early or as soon as you're aware of it.

Yeah, you don't need to be carrying that stuff around with you every day. You've got enough other real fires and real problems to put out. Don't let imaginary ones take up space. It's just space and you're one of those tabs open on your internet browser. So we all know we have lots of tabs open.

Let's close that one. Yeah, absolutely. I had a friend contact me the other day. I wonder what you think about this. She was like, I'm so stressed out. She video messaged me. I'm so stressed out. Like I was supposed to do this collaboration with this food coloring company, this big food coloring company. And so we're doing this big collaboration. I sent over all my photos and then we're going to do this giveaway. And then they're like, we're not going to do a giveaway right now. But she, but they have all my photos and she was just like freaking out about it. And I was like, like, they're yours. I know you have some protection, but like, we learned from it. What else can we do next time?

What else can we do? Was there something in writing? A big collaboration like that with a big company or with a heftier price tag. That's why I say get it in contract because yeah, there definitely needs to be language about there about, especially if you're turning over deliverables. Cause sometimes a brand's hiring you and they just want you to talk about their stuff and that's That's one service. Other times they want you to talk about it. They want the influence and they want your creative brain. You're almost being hired out like a mini digital media agency. And they want those deliverables. They want the videos or the photos and the whole pretty setup that you did with cute kids on the counter using the product. And yeah, you gotta make sure that you've done your homework and protected yourself there. And that should be a higher price tag.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. So yeah, it's something I've seen when I've seen poor, Yeah, influencers get burned by stuff and taken advantage of, and it happens to brands too. Sometimes they are the ones who are, they send stuff off to unscrupulous people who are like, oh no, I'll post, and then crickets.

Oh, I bet.

That's tough. We can all take that as good learning opportunities. How can we do better in using influencer marketing? Maybe we'll close out and talking a little bit about like how you guys have used content marketing, because I love seeing what you guys are putting out and how you use social media and you're trying to drive energy and just interest and about your food and the experience that you're driving. So tell me a little bit about that strategy.

We go really hard on our content at Thirst. We would go harder at Dottie's if I had another Ethan to help push that. It's just me over there and I have a really great marketer and she does great. And I think we do actually a lot more than most bakeries in that space too. But so we have a content schedule, we have certain posts or certain types of posts we do every week. One of our biggest things is We only post if it educates or entertains. We will not post and say, here's a Dr. MacCready, come buy it.

We don't post just because your grid demands that you put something there.

Yeah, yeah. Like we have— we might talk about the Dr. MacCready and what's in it. That's education. We might do a weird TikTok about it. That's entertainment and post it. Educate or entertain. That's been really important. We have a content schedule of stuff we're going to post about every single week. In a new way. Mommy Mondays, Thirsty Thursdays, treat yourself, all this stuff. And then we have blank spaces of a goal of a certain number of posts per day. 1, 2 are already filled with like Mommy Monday. So then we have these other spaces in which we can do whatever. We can talk about the weekend feature. We can talk about our thirsty shirts that are coming soon. We can talk about anything else, but it has to deliver some type of value. And then We just, we have a text list, we have an email list, and you get certain things for joining. You get certain things for being part of it. We have a subtext list called a Super Thirsty list. Those are like the hardcore ones that love Thirst, that like just—

those are your super fans.

Those are your orange, and they get a lot of free stuff on that, on that Super Thirsty list. And it allows us to provide more value there because we get a lot of feedback from them too. Did you like this weekend feature? What weekend features do you want to see? We have a full-time marketer. We could probably use another one. And she just goes like, like sometimes more than 40 hours a week. And she does an amazing job. Her name's Rachel. And like the stuff that she puts out in a week is just insane. Like she has, I don't know how many hard drives she has, but video and that content schedule has probably been the best thing.

Just to keep it consistent and to have that, that shared vision and then just to go execute it.

Yeah. And we've got one thing I'm super proud of that this is Ethan and Rachel. Like we have about 22,000 people who are interested in our brand on Instagram and it's all organic. We didn't pay for any of it because we're just trying to provide that value and create that. And we try to keep everyone really well-educated in our stories. And then Ethan had, this is a very interesting idea that I love that I think people could value from. He had the idea to make an Ethan from Thirst account and Rachel from Thirst account and a Scooter from Thirst, like these sub-accounts of these managers that go and engage in the content with customers that just creates more brand loyalty because there's an actual human, not just thirst drinks, there's actual human engaging, answering their questions that they can go to with questions. And it's so, it's really cool to see.

It's really cool to see. Yeah, you're right. I have seen that in the handle and that's literally what they're called. But that's smart because it is, it's a little bit of hybrid. It's still a branded account. It's still connected and obviously it is going to be, have the same content and logos and the coloring and branding and whatnot, but it's good. Still, it can have a mix of the personal too. So it's not just going to be all corporate messaging. Yeah.

And I think, yeah, it just means, it means so much like to have someone from that company contact you directly and be like, hey, I heard that you had an issue with this. I want to help you take care of it. Here's a gift card. And thank you for letting me know. And please let me know if there's any other issues, as opposed to just the big brand. Like, you want to do it on both, but it's just, whoa, Rachel from Thirst like paid attention to my complaint. We try to respond to every single message we can. Like, we will respond to every single DM, and we're really trying to stay on top of the comments.

Yeah, that's awesome. Have that level of connection with the businesses. Yeah, super challenging, and it means that you guys are putting your money where your mouth is. Put the resources there to support it.

So I think so.

Hope so. That's awesome. This has just been such a wonderful conversation. So do you have any kind of parting tips? I know we talked about all kinds of great stuff and I love when I was— we were reaching out and talking about— I just love your contributions to that positive team culture. And I think that's something is a lot of my listeners here are in that, that they're in that scaling, that building phase where they maybe only have them, maybe they have a contractor, some freelancers and VAs or whatnot, and they're looking for how do we, how do I push this forward and how do I make sure I can do that correctly? Any parting advice for making those kind of scary leaps in hiring?

First, thank you for saying all those kind words. I think just having your vision and your primary aim, when you know that, and if company culture is a part of that, and then you ask yourself, okay, how am I going to put my money where my mouth is and create that environment? It's so important. It saves you. Your hiring is so much easier and your attrition is less because you're keeping people on longer. So it's just so important. And it's so much easier in the beginning of a business to bake that in. It is much more difficult to come in to a business that's struggling and fix it. It's not impossible, but you have to get buy-in from every single person at every level. So I would say be deliberate about it. Consider nicknames. I think that helps.

Yeah.

And retreats and just stuff that like makes people feel valued. Be really liberal with your praise. And limit your criticism, but deliver it in a way that's going to be uplifting and help people do their job better, which is what you're there for. Yeah, you are there. Like, do not be audacious enough to think that everyone is there to serve you. Like, you are absolutely so good. Yeah, to make their, to make their job easier, because you are all working towards this one goal, this vision, this mission as the company. And if everyone doesn't feel that way, then it's an issue with you as a leader that you haven't communicated it and got the buy-in enough, but like you work for them. And that's been the biggest thing. Like, it's amazing to me how loyal our team is at Thirst as quickly as they are. And it's because of what we decided we wanted it to look like in the beginning. And really because of what Ethan and the managers do from day one, from before day one, like from the pre-screen phone interview.

Yeah, for sure. I love all those tips. So, and I did ask, I think, think one more question, which is my show, so that's what I get to do. So working with a business partner, so any tips for how to do that? Because that's a whole new can of worms in terms of a relationship to manage and making sure you're on the same, you guys are on the same page and have the same goals and you have a good balance of strength and weaknesses. Mm-hmm.

Yes. I honestly think that I lucked out. Hugely. Do I know that I would do it again? I would do another business again with Ethan, but I don't know if I would do one with someone else. Like, I really lucked out. And I think the thing that's made it work is with our specific personalities. Like, in the beginning, Thirst was much more my hands-on mentoring, strategic planning. I helped with the branding and logo stuff. He was like all out hustle and just go, go. And then as he's learning those things and being more boots on the ground, like I'm stepping away more. So for our personalities, that's worked out really well. But I would say having a clear discussion in the beginning of who's gonna do what, learning how to communicate regularly.

You are basically married, so it is a business marriage.

Go to couples counseling if you need to, like, learn how to communicate, because the most difficult times I think that we've had is either we haven't been communicating or haven't known how to talk about certain things and have some tough conversations. Yeah, so have that and then really regular, like, regular lunches and stuff like that to make sure what's our big vision here, what's the— what do we want this to look like in a year and how do I see that looking differently? And like, over-communicate is probably the theme of all of this to your business partner, to your employees, to your customers. Over-communicate. And, um, I feel— I just, I don't know, I know I've heard some horror stories and I think ours has been really good because of those things. And I've known— it hasn't always been this way, but I learned when to let go of some things and let him do it. And he's learned to be like, okay, I trust her with this, and let go of it. And that can be hard, but I think if you just keep communicating and have it on paper in the beginning helps too. But don't be afraid to like reevaluate that. You're gonna need to during your relationship.

Yeah, yeah, no, and I totally agree with that. Have something on paper and then you need to be revisiting and having those conversations again. Are we still, still working working for us and putting in, separating org chart and who's handling what and who's going up the chain of command and whatnot. And that balance of giving each other room to be successful. And what does that look like? And not micromanaging.

Yeah, absolutely. Can I ask you one more question? Oh, we're, we're over. Okay. We need to go. My question is, are you contacted by a significant amount of people just getting ready to start their business or are most of the people contacting you?

I actually have a pretty healthy mix, which I like. I like having people, I have some people who are just barely beginning business owners, baby, and they're still like looking into names and this is their idea and they're just testing the waters and they'll consume a lot of my content and then maybe get up the guts to schedule a call with me and I'll try to steer them in the right direction and stuff. They normally don't need a lot of help from me one-on-one yet. They're not to that point. So I usually just steer them towards my templates. So here's— go listen to this episode. This is what you need or whatnot. And then I have some people who are— they've gotten a business going and some of them, they just need to pay— do some of the catch-up on the legal stuff. Like they had the accidental success or things, they hit a trend and wrote it and now things are going really well. And now it's, oh crap, I don't have contracts. I don't have my LLC set up. I haven't thought about trademark and protecting. And so we're trying to put all these other pieces in place so that they can keep moving forward and go to where their goals want to be.

I know I told you this when I weirdly sent you a video message telling you how awesome you are, but it was wonderful, which was like the best intro ever.

I just, I love that you just go for it. You're like, hey, we should talk.

Yeah, I just know how much effort it takes to do what you're doing and I just am so impressed with the quality of content you put out. So bravo to you. I think it's insanely valuable, the amount that you give out. And so just impressive and helping so many people. So thanks for what you're doing.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate that, Sarah. So my goal, I love, I just love entrepreneurs and I want to help them along in their way whenever I can, whether that's beginning, middle, or when they're getting ready to sell and start their new thing. And yeah, I think it's a really cool corner of the universe to be in.

So I feel really privileged to be there. It's a super lonely journey. So to find someone that's going to have your back and be your friend and give you tips, it's so refreshing. It's so nice.

So Thank you so much. It is, yeah. It's a pretty special thing. Awesome. Thank you so much for joining me today. And if people want to hear more from you and if they also want to, of course, have some of your amazing goods and your product, where can they find you? Where can they connect with you?

I'd love to hear from people on my Instagram. It's @sierra.mcclieve. We should maybe do a giveaway or something. Maybe we can circle back to that. But, yeah, @thirstdrinks, @dottyscolaches. We'd love to hear from you. Come say hi. Say you heard about it on here.

Hey, connect with. Thanks so much for being here. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening to this episode. I just love Ciara. It's been a pleasure to work with her for a few different projects for her company and to get to know her better. But I just think she has such great wisdom and a perspective on how to build real team culture. I think there's a lot of people who kind of talk the talk about, you know, really being there for people and creating positivity. And it's clear if you get get to know Sierra if you follow her on her social media and just, you know, ingest some of the gems that she'll drop about how she interacts and, and is taught how to treat her team members, that she genuinely cares about human beings, especially those that she has the pleasure of working with and supporting. Um, and I just love all of her wisdom about reimagining your role as an entrepreneur and a manager to really affect the kind of change that you want in your organization. So Just so grateful for her time and sharing that with us. Um, since we've had this interview, Sierra has also added to her plate— she— some tiny home building. So if you're interested in all of that, she's been building— I think it has 2 houses now, um, these adorable tiny houses that are in the St. George area, kind of outside Zion. So if you want to follow her on her Instagram, she's got more details about that. But no surprise that she has brought her passion and talent to another, um, venture that has been super successful and that she's been able to learn a lot about it. So Thirst now has 9 different locations, and 2 of them are inside Rio Tinto and Jazz Stadium respectively, which is awesome. I love just seeing a local company be successful in the soda shop space, which Utah definitely has cornered in terms of its market. But as Sierra talked about, there's still a lot of innovation there and a lot they've done to distinguish themselves and their offerings, especially their food. If you've gone by a Thirst, you know that people go crazy over their Scotcheroos and their beignets that are quite kind of a novelty and something different. And now they're also powered by Wetzel's Pretzels, which is pretty cool. So I hope this episode was fruitful for you, whether you are managing a team right now or you are looking to in the future of growing your team. How can you fit more into that entrepreneur role, that manager role? Make sure, go back and revisit E-Myth. I love that Sarah brought that book up and as a reminder, we have an episode specifically with a VP from E-Myth. It's a business book that I love that was recommended to me and we had to study when I took an entrepreneurship series class at BYU, and it's linked in the show notes, but it's a great read and really a great reread as an entrepreneur. If you are like, wait, how do I set up a system and a franchise that's gonna be manageable in a way that's gonna be sustainable? And whether you wanna franchise or not, if you set up a clear system in your business, you're going to be really happy and poised for more growth. So, and check out that episode, that's number 54, about how to find out how to create your primary aim. How do you create position contracts? How do you make sure that you're not getting lost in the details and the technician part of your business, which is, I especially find among creatives, the part that's naturally they're really good at. Um, and it's hard and it takes kind of sustained and intentional effort to move from that role into something else. Some other things we mentioned in the episode, brand protection. Sierra talked a little bit about being careful that there was someone kind of creeping up on her name close by. And whether it's in your state or outside of it, if you want to have a business with a presence online, even if you're a local in-person business or a food business like they are, it's definitely something you want to keep an eye on. If you're ready to talk about bigger brand protection measures to make sure, one, that your name is clear, just to have that peace of mind that you're not stepping on someone else's toes, and two, to make sure that you can grow and that there's not someone else that's creeping up on you that you need to be aware of, and that you can have things locked down. You feel like you can invest in your branding, your marketing with a full head, full heart. Make sure to schedule a time. I've got some consults on my calendar open. I've just finished up a couple trademark projects for people, so I have a few spots open in the next few months. If you want to talk about brand protection and getting that trademark process process started for your brand so that you can have that locked down and make sure that you've got your brand legally legit. The other piece I wanted to mention is, since we're talking about team members, if you are growing your team and need to have some agreements to protect them, make sure you are getting your people legit. If you have independent contractors or 1099s, you should be having an independent contractor agreement just like it's in their name. And we sell one of those in Creative Contracts. That's one of our best sellers. It's been purchased and downloaded and edited hundreds and hundreds of times. Make sure you have that to clarify your relationship with those team members that are 1099 that, that may come and go in terms of freelancers. If you have employees, make sure you have an employment agreement as well as other HR support. You should have an employee handbook. If you have more than one, you should have payroll set up, unemployment insurance, workers' comp. There's a few other things that need to happen. So make sure either you, your accountant, and your attorney, or all of you are on on the same page of whether those things are signed up and happening. We don't have an employment agreement as of this time of the recording yet in the shop, but it is on our list to get that drafted up and, uh, enlisted so that we can support you. For those of you that are in the point where you're hiring a W-2 employee, which is super exciting. Thanks so much as always for listening and making time for the podcast. We're always open to feedback in terms of who you want to see next and what topics you want to see covered. Best place to connect with is on the Instagram @BrittanyRettell. So make sure you're connecting with us there. We'll be dropping tips and tricks and that you'll make sure you get any of the resources that you need to help grow your business. If you haven't downloaded our Legally Legit Workbook, that's our number one freebie resource to help you understand what are the steps that you need to, to get your business legit. And you can find that at getlegitwithbritt.com or links are in the show notes wherever you are listening to this. Thanks so much.