Designing a Hit Conference with Alt Summit Founder & Design Mom Gabrielle Blair - 33

Law and Wit, Episode 33: Designing a Hit Conference with Alt Summer founder Gabrielle Blair.

Welcome to Law and Wit, Creative Counsel for Entrepreneurs.

I'm your host, Brittany Rettell, mother of 4, entrepreneur, naptime lawyer, and attorney for creative entrepreneurs. I'm here to share inspiration and action so that you can tackle your business blocks and confidently own your business in every sense of the word. Thank you so much for being here. Hello listeners, and welcome back. Thanks so much for being here. I just want to give a brief introduction before we jump into today's episode, and let's just give a little bit of framing that, um, well, today we're talking obviously a lot about conferences because we have the queen, the matriarch of conferences, Gabrielle Blair, on. Um, even if you don't plan on either having conferences in your business— that's part not part of your business plan or business model someday— or you don't have any plans on attending conferences this season or anytime soon, um, I still think you're going to want to listen in today, um, for some key takeaways. And the what's cool about this episode and what was great in listening and re-editing it, um, for me is that the— what Gabrielle is talking about in terms of learning and reiteration and, um, and digging into the experiential economy and learning from that really applies across creative entrepreneurship. So, um, I really challenge you to just, you know, open your mind and not be quick to say, oh, this doesn't apply to me, that I don't run conferences, or this doesn't apply to me, I'm not going to this conference, or even Alt Summit in particular. The advice that she gives about taking advantage of the networking opportunities and planning ahead and what you can do before, during, and after a conference. I think you're going to find her really, really critical for someone who's, you know, walked the walk and, you know, for many years now who's been involved with designing her own conference and obviously attending a lot. So, um, and then the last thing is just to keep in mind, um, just what Gabrielle was talking about in terms of how you can be smart and learn from other people and use design principles to increase the experience that your, um, that your clients, that your customers, that whoever your your audience is with whatever way they're interacting with your product. So, and I think that's really clear that that's been something that's been important about Gabby's and her business and her brand and what she's offered and connected with people, um, even though she's done lots of different things and she'll take us on kind of that creative journey of her. So I hope you enjoy that and tune in. Um, I did want to read a quick review because I am going to reward those people who take the time to leave a review because I know, I, I know that it's a completely self-serving big ask, like there's nothing in it for you and there's everything in it for me, but I really appreciate it, and it makes a huge world of difference for people to find the podcast and to know that it's legit and worth their time and that they— it's worth putting, you know, listening to their AirPods. Okay, this one is from Movie Watcher SM, and she says, makes you feel like you have a friend who is a lawyer. She's so fun and knows her stuff. She is a wealth of information but never comes off as boring. She not only understands the legal side, but she understands the front end very well. Every small business owner should listen to this podcast so So much good information and very motivational. Thank you so much, um, for sharing that with me. I really appreciated that, Movie Watcher SM, um, for leaving that review. And if you have not, you can easily do that from your podcast app, your purple app if you have an iPhone. If not, you can do it from iTunes on your desktop computer. So, um, and if you're listening from something else, I understand that it's, it's a little bit more hectic to get to. Um, the other thing that really helps is sharing with a friend. If there is something in this episode or any of the other episodes that tuning into that is resonating with you that you think would be helpful for someone that you know and love, and maybe a business partner or someone that you like to bounce ideas off with, go ahead and send it to them. You know, just, just send it. Just send the love along. This is the kind of sharing that is caring, um, and that is freely endorsed and promoted by me. So I'd really appreciate it. Um, and lastly, um, I just want— I have to give my standard disclaimer. We really don't talk about any legal stuff in today's episode. Yay! I can hear you guys saying yay, but Just FYI, for this episode and all the other great content and free content that I put out there, while I am a licensed attorney, I'm not your attorney in any of these places unless you want me to be. And what that looks like is that you— we get on, hop on a call, we have a free consult, and we talk about what one-on-one legal services and working with me would look like. And then you decide that you want to work with me and hire me. That's how that goes. So enjoy this episode, take it to heart, enjoy this conversation with really one of the matriarchs of the design and the blogging creative sphere, Gabrielle Blair, who I have loved reading and following for a while. I really hope that if you're going to Alt Oasis that we get a chance to connect, so please don't be a stranger. All right, now on to it.

Hello everyone and welcome back. I'm so excited to introduce our guest today on Lon Witt. We have Gabrielle Stanley Blair and she's the founder and CEO of Alt Summit, the blockbuster annual conference for lifestyle bloggers and creative entrepreneurs. Currently celebrating its 10th year and 15th sold-out event. She's also the creator and publisher of DesignMom.com, which was named a website of the year by Time magazine. And I've been reading Design Mom for years and years, so really excited to have her on. She's also a bestselling author of Design Mom: How to Live with Kids. And on her website, Gabrielle covers everything from the intersection of design and parenting. She hosts compelling conversations on difficult topics, and she does it all with her husband Ben Blair at her side and her 6 beautiful children. And she's based out of Oakland, California, but we're so excited to have her here with us today on Long Wit. Welcome, Gabrielle.

Thank you so much. I'm delighted to be here.

Thank you.

Well, tell us a little bit about your origin story. You know, as we referenced you, you know, your, your big, big project, you know, aside from a lot of the other things that you're doing, is that you are involved and you host the Alt Summit that I'm going to this year, that I went to last year. But kind of tell us a little bit about your journey in terms of how you got going in design and what's that look like from you as you've moved around and and raised your children and kind of the, the on-ramps and off-ramps of that journey.

Absolutely. So I studied graphic design at university, got my BFA in graphic design, and I, not long after I graduated, moved to New York and was working as an art director there in advertising agencies. And so that was where, when we got to New York, we had a couple of kids. We had 3 more while we were there, and After baby number 5, I was looking for, uh, wanted to take kind of a very long, uh, maternity leave and really kind of work from home. Um, and, and freelance in New York is a little funny because you often go into the city and work in an office as a freelancer versus like in other parts of the country where I've done it, you're working at home as a freelancer, you're getting your assignment working at home. So it was a little tricky in New York trying to figure that out. And, but I knew I'd had enough babies by now. This was my 5th that if I didn't do something, I was going to go crazy and full-on postpartum depression. So I knew I needed a creative outlet, and blogging was just coming around. And, well, it had been around for a couple of years, and I had really enjoyed blogs. I'd even thought about doing sort of an essay blog, but found out really that I wasn't a great writer. So I was like, oh, yeah, that's not it.

I don't know if I'd agree with you there, but certainly maybe more of the visual is where you felt maybe your zone of genius.

Right. I mean, it's mostly the time. Since that time, I've now written thousands and thousands and thousands of blog posts and a book. And yes, I've gotten better at writing, but at the time, I really wasn't a strong writer. And I remember reading Design Sponge and Oh Joy! And this was just in the very initial— this is before Facebook or Instagram or Pinterest or any of that. And they had a very visual format where it was really just like, here's a photo and then like a sentence, like, oh, I found this cool thing. Or it might even be about the cat or whatever.. And I was like, oh, a visual blog. I could do that. That's not a lot of writing and that's great. And so, in 2006, when my baby was 2 months old, my 5th, I started Design Mom. And I got really lucky on timing. I mean, not just timing in terms of like the blog world, but I called it Design Mom. And it just so happened there had been like a big baby boom among celebrities and among sort of just the population at large. It was like cool to have a baby. And here I was, my peers were having their first baby. I was 31, my, you know, my peers in New York having their first baby, but I had 5 and I was therefore a pro, right?

You know, all figured out. So yeah, you had wisdom to share.

Yes, exactly. So compared to them, they just felt like I had all this knowledge. And of course, in some ways that was true. I mean, I knew how to throw a first birthday party and who you're supposed to invite and how that, you know, what the point is and all of that kind of thing, where to get cute toddler shoes and all that stuff. And at the same time, there'd been a, uh, there was sort of a renaissance in, in caring about design. Like, I remember Blueprint Magazine came out. That was by the Martha Stewart people. And it was the sub— the sub— like, what do I call it? The subhead was like, design your life. And the whole idea of like, you know, being intentional and really designing your, you know, space and your thing.

Yeah, Apartment Therapy was having, you know, its heyday. And yeah, all of its sub-branded.

Yeah.

So I come out as Design Mom, which I was a graphic designer and I was this mom of 5 at the time. It seemed like a great fit and it was. And really I just offered kind of answered questions that I was receiving, not necessarily online, but just in my life of exactly what I just mentioned. Where do you get those cute toddler shoes? What do I do for a first birthday? Are there such things as cute maternity clothes? Things like that. I would just kind of talk about that kind of thing. And it took off and it was great. So my sister Jordan, who's also a big blogger, she does Oh Happy Day. And the Color Factory. And the Color Factory, right. So she had started a couple months before me. And then my sister-in-law Liz of Say Yes, at the time Say Yes to Hoboken, 'cause she lived in Hoboken. She started a blog not long after me. And here we all were. Blogging and in this sort of design blog world. But I had this a little different experience than either Jordan or Liz who didn't have parents, sorry, didn't have kids at the time because I did. And so I lived in this mom blog world and also this design blog world and they were very different worlds. And mom blog world would go to like, we'd go to BlogHer conference, which was, you know, the blogging conference at the time. You talk about these mom blogging issues and the classes were about how to be a writer and kind of how to be a journalist. And anyway, that was the focus. Certainly nothing about visuals and of course no classes on social media because it didn't exist yet. So I was kind of, again, I was overlapping both worlds and we were on a family trip where I was all the, I'm one of 8 siblings, it was the siblings and our spouses and we were in Mexico and We were talking about blogging and conferences, and I mentioned how much I love going to these conferences, but that the blogs, the design blogs I read were never represented there. You know, they just weren't coming to blog her. And I get it. Almost none of them were parents at the time, and it was a very parent-focused place. I don't know that it is anymore, but it was then. So, so we said, well, what if we start our own? And my sister Sarah, who's not a blogger at all but has worked in politics and done a lot of events for campaigns and things like that and felt confident about event planning, said, well, I can plan it and you can figure out who should be the speakers and invite people. And so I did. And Liz and Jordan, of course, came and supported. They weren't involved at a, like, organizing the business level, but have always come and supported and been really amazing. So my sister Sarah and I started Alt Summit, and that was— I mean, I'd been blogging about 2 years by the time the first Alt Summit happened, and it was awesome. The first panel, the very first panel of the first conference was Grace Bonney of Design Sponge and Maxwell of Apartment Therapy, Jean Ah of Knotcot, and It was moderated by Heather Armstrong of Deuce, who was also a very, a mom blogger for sure, but also very visual and a photographer. And like me, kind of overlapped this design world as well. Anyway, it was awesome. People loved it. And I hadn't really thought past the first conference. I'll be honest.

It was like—

Because, well, that's probably a big enough thing just on its own. You know, one bite at the elephant at a time.

100%.

And like, can we even pull this off? You know, there was certainly nothing being, uh, long-term. But, um, we did pull it off and all of a sudden realized like, oh, people want to do it again.

Like, we got like a thing now. And like, yeah, as soon as you start putting away the confetti, people are asking, well, how about next year?

Yeah, when do I buy tickets for next year? So, um, so that was all very exciting, but I had this full-time job as a design mom by that point, and so it was a little bit like Oh, I didn't really intend to start another full-time job. Like, that was accidental. But anyway, um, um, my— so my sister Sarah really took the reins on the organizing and planning and being CEO for, for many years. And then, um, 2 years ago, I guess 3 years ago, she— or 2 conferences ago, um, basically around the last time we had a conference in Salt Lake City, she, uh, her husband, who also works in politics, was retiring. He'd been a state senator for a long time and he was retiring and she was kind of like, yeah, I'm going to retire too. Like, let's, we're going to move on and work on more, maybe more altruistic things. So I bought Ultimate from her and we moved it to Palm Springs from Salt Lake City to Palm Springs. She had been centered in Utah and so that was easy for her, but I wasn't Utah and it wasn't as convenient for me. So I was trying to move it somewhere where it would be easier for me.

Yeah, and plus you knew Palm Springs was, you know, just gonna offer just a couple different things visually that might be interested to your audience.

Yeah, exactly. So, and yeah, obviously Palm Springs was sort of on trend, if a city can be on trend, and it was.

And, um, also all the cactus, all the mid-century modern.

Yes, all the succulents you could ever want. And, um, and, you know, it'd been wonderful in Salt Lake City. We had paired it the same week as the Sundance Film Festival, so there's always cool things happening in town. It was really fun. It was this wintry scene But I was like, yeah, let's go the opposite and get people that want to escape winter and go sunny. And we also knew, we intentionally picked the Saguaro as our location, our hotel in Palm Springs, because it was going to be quite a bit less expensive than where we had been doing it in Salt Lake City at the Grand America, which was a big formal kind of European-style hotel. Anyway, so we really went in and said, this will be a totally different feel. It'll be Palm Springs. We can make it more affordable. We cut the ticket prices by a chunk. We had a more affordable hotel, and that was great because we brought in our, our, you know, diehard crowd, but also a whole new crowd of younger entrepreneurs that maybe had been priced out of our Salt Lake City event, right?

Kind of more, you know, some up-and-coming people who are maybe just starting the blogging journey, or this is still maybe even still a side hustle, you know, apart from their— and I think I met someone last year who was like a petroleum engineer, you know, but she's got a fashion blog and she wanted to come.

So awesome. Women that quit that day job and she's trying to figure out if that's a possibility. And it's also a chance for her to meet and interact with bloggers she loves and social, Instagrammers she loves.

Exactly.

Anyway, it's this awesome thing. So 2 years ago, it was exactly what I hoped. We had this new influx of attendees and it really was lovely. And because it's Palm Springs, our social, and because it's the Sahara, which is like this rainbow hotel, our social shares leapt, you know, they were up by 30% just by changing locations. And that, because it's kind of irresistible to, you know, as far as taking pictures go, you can't not snap, snap.

I mean, everything, as we joked, is like boomerangable at Alt. Everything. Like, it's all, and then nobody bats an eye. Like, it's all part of the deal, right?

And we were also at this point, you know, thinking of like Obviously, their trends change, and one of the trends we had seen, and I know my sister Jordan had seen this as well, is that events became a bigger deal, and not just showing up to take a class, but giving people an experience. That's what they're looking for. And when I think of Jordan and Color Factory, that's exactly what she's doing as well.

Yeah, just really harnessing the experiential economy, yeah.

Right, and when you're talking about like, is it boomerangable? Yes, it's an experience. Experience. You're going to be able to be there, record the whole thing, but walk away having experienced something. And so we definitely have designed it to be that way, especially as we move to Palm Springs. So we did it for 2 years at Saguaro, and we're maxed out there. We literally take over the entire hotel. We have every inch of it.

Every—

you have sponsors on, you know, hotel room patios. We've got— I mean, we're just everywhere. We're in the restaurants. We're— we really have taken over, and there's no more space. So We had 750 people there last year and a waiting list of 3,000 plus. Like, we just couldn't fit anyone else. And so we were really stuck at the end of our second year there going, well, what do we do? And I have 4, you know, Alternatives, as you mentioned, um, this is its 10th year and 15th event because we did some summer events as well, um, summer conferences. But we have looked at hotels for a long time, and we don't have to be at a hotel. We could move to like a cool airplane hangar/warehouse space, you know, like there are other cool event spaces, but we know that our attendees really value that hanging out in the lobby vibe or hanging around the fire pits, you know, like really kind of being on site together. And if we go to one of those off, you know, non-hotel options, it just, it changes for sure.

The dynamic for sure.

It does. And then we can go to a bigger hotel. There are certainly bigger hotels. We did that for all these years in Salt Lake City. But they get very generic very fast. I mean, the every, even if they're luxury, even if they're 5 stars, they're all basically identical.

Every ballroom inside one of those pretty much looks the same from like a PowerPoint stage.

Yeah, ballrooms and air walls, and it is what it is, and that's fine. But we knew we, you know, had this great thing with the Palm Springs happy location. How do we leave that? And there's just nothing in between. You've got like Saguaro-sized hotels and, you know, with some meeting space. And then you've got massive hotels that are air walls and ballrooms. And so we've just, we were just stuck. Like, what do we do? And we knew the Saguaro wasn't perfect. Like our keynotes are out at the pool so we can accommodate everyone, which is, you know, we can spin that as awesome and cool. And we've had great keynotes. And you do, but. You do, but you can't show slides. Like how dumb is that? You know, like it's outside. So we knew that was an issue. And anyway, we're just really stuck and we looked at other locations and we've just researched and researched and there's, we were just stuck. And then finally I had this click where I remembered all the times I've gone to South by Southwest. I don't know if you've ever been.

No, this is friends who've gone.

Yeah, loved it. I'm sure you've heard of it. So it's in Austin. It's like 2 weeks long. It's massive. They started with 500 and now they're, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say like 140,000 people. Like, it's crazy. And again, you come for a few days, you might stay a week. I'm sure there are some people that could do the whole time, but really, it's this, you know, again, 2-week-long festival. And they take over every meeting spot in town. If there is a place with a screen, you know, in Austin, there are South by Southwest classes happening. Now obviously I don't mean to compare Alt Summit and South by Southwest, totally different things, but I thought I could learn from their model because when you're there you go to the convention center to get your badge and then otherwise you're just all around town depending on what track you're into or what kind of classes you're into. You might take a class at the convention center or you might never enter that building again because you're again, you're taking some classes at a hotel or campus or, or going to a party offsite somewhere or whatever you're doing. So I, so I thought, well, what if I could learn from that? And I thought about the other hotels that we had researched in Palm Springs that we knew we really loved and that were like really ideal for the ultimate vibe. One of them was the Ace, which is a famed, the Ace in Palm Springs, totally famed, one of the best Aces for sure. The Parker Palm Springs, which is legendary, totally chic, luxe, very exclusive, really, really cool space. The whole, the whole place designed by Jonathan Adler, just amazing. And then we knew we loved the Riviera. The Riviera is a bigger hotel, and you go in the lobby, and it's maybe my favorite lobby. It's very, very cool, and it was like where the Rat Pack would perform. It's like, it's a very, you know, institutional, or an institution in Palm Springs. Right.

You can, you can feel the old Hollywood glamor leaching out of it.

Yeah, totally. So we loved all those places. Now, um, the, the Riviera has a ballroom, the same old ballroom that you're expecting, except maybe cooler. It's, it's oval and it's got a big stage, but still a ballroom with air walls. So we weren't— we had kind of abandoned the Riviera going, no, no, no, we want these more unique spaces. And then there was that epiphany where I'm like, well, what if it was at all of the spaces? We have that, we'll get the social shares from the Saguaro and the Parker and the Ace and even the lobby at the Riviera. But then we can also have access to a ballroom where I can fit 2,000 people and we can have Joanna Gaines.

Yeah. And then have people freaking out, which they will be.

Right, totally. And we've got more, we haven't even announced our other keynotes. People are gonna go nuts, but anyway. So it really solved it for me. I was like, oh, you get all the coolest hotels and you also get space for as many people as want to come. And so what we're doing is these are— Palm Springs is not big. These are all close together. And we have a hotel. I mean, we have shuttles going, circling among the hotels. And there are— there's classes at each of the hotels. The Ace has like 3 different classrooms you can use. The Saguaro has 2 different classrooms you can use. The Parker has 1 big ballroom, big, it's like 350 to 400 people in the ballroom there. And then of course we have this, the Riviera, which also has big meeting spaces. So we've got the schedules out, the schedule's live, people can take a look at it, but we've got at any given time 8 or 9 things happening. 8 or 9, and I just mean classes. In addition to that, there's you can go to sponsor booths or there's tours.

Yeah, there's a less structured, you know, meeting people, talking and meeting and, you know, getting, you know, talking over their LaCroix about stuff. I mean, yeah, it's all, it's all the best parts of meeting and greeting with creatives.

Totally. And that's all going on, you know, throughout. But then at the same time, in any given hour, you've got again 8 or 9 classes happening that you can choose from. And so it means we still get to have small classes like the classrooms at the ACE. Some of them are really like for 50 people. So you'll have smaller classes if you want them, and then we'll also have big keynotes like I mentioned, and we'll have— we have classrooms that can fit 300 people, classrooms that can fit 150, and classrooms that can fit 50, you know. So, and then we are— we just launched the app. It's so cool, and it's allowing us to see which classes are getting the most attention. Now that's important because also for the first time ever, we've never had that, It gives us a sense of we'll be able to, if there's, if we've scheduled a class in a 50-person room and 300 people have let us know they're interested in that class, well, we can switch it around.

You know that you might be running into a problem, you know, and have at least some chances of real-time feedback and adjustment.

Oh, that's so smart.

Yeah.

The other thing we can do is also give people a heads up like, okay, well, we can't move this one out of here because they need a sink because it's like a demo or something, you know, they need, But we can at least give people a heads up like, hey, this space is gonna fit 50 people, so if you really care about it, get there early because it's gonna be capped. But don't worry if you can't get in, there's literally 8 other things you can do that day.

No one has to have sad eyes here, there are lots of options.

Well, that's fabulous. I mean, it's no surprise that Design Mom would, you know, come up with a really well-designed conference.

Thanks.

Well, we're excited, and it also just means like because, because it was 4 locations, I decided to lengthen the week because I know, you know, there's, it's just going to feel like instead of being at one location, like packing it in, my hope is that people feel like they can spread it out a little bit and, you know, take a tour to the desert or, you know, take a break in the middle of the week to do something that's not a class, you know. And anyway, so we have, with that in mind, I've tried to repeat things. So we have I believe 8 different podcast options, either in roundtables or workshops or classes spread throughout the week. So if there's a podcast session, if you're like, definitely want to get to a podcast session, you'll be able to without missing another class that you want. Does that make sense? And even for those classes where we feel like in the 50-room, the 50-person room, that topic is going to repeat, and again, so you're— if you can't get into that one, don't stress out, you'll have another chance. So we're really excited about that. We're, um, this also has allowed us to, um, max out. Like, we can continue to, and to take registrations throughout the conference even for, you know, we— there's enough space. So we're technically sold out, meaning like, yes, it's as many people as we were planning, but we can continue to keep registering people because there's enough room.

Yeah, you've given yourself some buffer there, and because you've been, you know, thoughtful about designing your space.

Yeah, yeah. And it also means that next year, you know, if this works— it's still— we still haven't proven this— the venues, additional content, it can grow. It's, it's now— if this works, it's a model that can scale, and we've never— so we're really excited about that. But I know it was a big— I mean, it was a lot of big changes all at once. We lengthened the week, which means we had to increase the price. We still kept it as as we can. In fact, our, our, our price for alumni and that we would sometimes just run as a sale was the same price we would charge in Salt Lake City for 3 days. So I really did try to keep it as low as possible. And we have, you know, a range of hotels. So depending on what your, your budget is for a hotel, we were trying to accommodate that. But we know it's a lot of big changes. It's— people normally would come in on Sunday and leave on Thursday. Now they're coming on Sunday, leaving on Friday. It just feels longer, you know.

Yeah, but you know, no one's feeling too boo-hoo about extra time in Palm Springs.

I hope so. I mean, and I certainly really do hope that, um, with the new schedule they can get all the classes they want in, but again, get all the Palm Springs they want in. Like, there— we know there are a lot of people that never even get to like sit by the pool because they're so busy with classes. And what a shame to be in Palm Springs and not get to— not to get to sit by the pool or go—

or go see the Pink Door or to go on a little hike or whatever, you know, go see the mountains or, you know, do anything like that.

So So we, we're, I mean, you can hear in my voice how excited I am. I just feel like this is a lot of big changes, but really exciting, positive changes that make Alt Summit accessible to way more people and in a much bigger way. So yeah, I'm—

Yeah, well, no, that's, that's, that's amazing. Yeah, and I can hear, you know, the enthusiasm you have for it, which makes sense because, you know, you've been, you've been around a while and, you know, you can tell that you've been thoughtful in terms of trying to learn from what's worked for you in the past and what can you learn well, you know, what are the best practices that you've been able to glean from other people who are doing events? Even if it's not in your exact genre, it doesn't mean that there's not lessons that certainly you can glean and try to apply.

That's 100% true. Yeah, I definitely do that. I definitely look at other events and other across all sorts of categories to just see what I can learn and what makes sense. And I try to go to conferences and go to events again with that learning you know, with that eye for learning in mind.

So if you— if someone, you know, on who's listening, one of my listeners is interested in getting into events and they, you know, are obviously probably going to start on a smaller scale as most people do, what would be advice that you'd have for them if they're getting started and wanting to know, you know, what are maybe some mistakes they can avoid or what kind of framework should maybe they be looking towards to try to be, you know, have this next success?

Right.

So the trick— I feel like the trick with events is figuring out that budget. Like, you, in an ideal, really healthy event, ticket sales should cover all the costs of the conference. And then if you want to make money, you would, pardon me, sell more tickets if that made, you know, like, if the space can accommodate more, and that could be your revenue. Or you could involve sponsors, and that could be your revenue or your earnings. So I would definitely start with that and as you're, as you're planning it, figure out, okay, what would I have to charge to cover the cost of this to create the kind of event that I want to create that has whatever perks it has or whatever opportunities it has? How much is that going to cost and what would I have to charge? How many people would fit in that space? You know, kind of working on that math and seeing how close you can get to covering your costs with just tickets. That's an ideal world. Ultimately, we have history of extras, extras, extras. You're gonna come, there's gonna— we have typically fed people more than any other conference I've ever been to for sure. We have more parties than any other conference I've been to. We have— we try to have perks around every corner. Yes, here's more installations where you can take pictures and here's the, you know, anyway. And I can't say that we've been great at keeping to that model. So sponsors become very key for us.. But I would say if you were starting out, aim for that, start for that. That's the safest place because then you can't lose your— like, you, you, if you sell enough tickets, you're covered. You're not going to go into the hole, right? That's great. And then also you can give— have a sense of like, okay, if no one's signing up, if I really can't seem to sell tickets, if you're doing this in plenty of time, you still have the option to cancel this thing. Like, oh, there wasn't the interest that I thought. You have time. Once you've committed sponsors, it's really hard to do.

Yeah, because now you've put yourself on the line, your business reputation. You've already told them that in exchange for this support as being a headliner or supporting sponsor or whatever, this is what you're going to get.

These are the deliverables and the coverage. And, and so it's just much harder. And so again, the close covering all your costs with ticket sales, um, that's the best way to get started, I would say. Um, and then it's really just I feel like in the event space, there is room for people. So not that I'm trying to say come and compete with me, but you can. There's room. Meaning, we had, again, we had 3,000 people on our waiting list last year. There are people that want to go to events, and there's way more people that want to go to things than there are events. So, and it doesn't have to be a huge event. You, like, local events are hugely popular. You can do You know, just you're in the Pacific Northwest, it could be just a conference geared to Pacific, to the Pacific Northwest, or just to your town. So, um, and something that you think is going to be local can grow. I, I know the Mom2o Summit, which, um, I helped organize the very first year and have gone every year, um, it's owned by a friend of mine, Laura Mays, and she, um, she thought she was doing a Texas-focused conference when she first put it on. And, um, no, people wanted to come from all over the country, and she thought she was doing a one-off as well, and here it turned into a long-standing thing. So, uh, just because you're doing something local doesn't mean it wouldn't grow. But I think there's room for events. I think we've seen the trend for wanting to experience something continues. That hasn't abated. And, um, an event is an experience. So I would say there's still room, and if you're into this go for it.

Go for it and be in that space. Now, I think that's really great advice.

I love that.

Um, so, and so for people who are listening who are, um, who are already planning on attending the Alt or who are soon need to be, and of course after hearing about this amazing conference are going to go rush and get their tickets, um, what can they be doing to try to make the most out of a conference like this, especially maybe, um, in regards to now what we're looking at in terms of size and scope and all the different moving pieces? What should they be doing before, during, and after, um, to make the most out of this investment in their business and themselves?

Such a great question. I, for anyone who is really trying to make the most of it, out of it, I would say use the planning tools that we've offered. So the app is live and it's amazing. You can not only look at the whole schedule, but there are, you know, if there's a class that you're interested in, you can, you know, there's a little plus sign, you click it and it will add it to your personal schedule. So you can start developing that and, and it'll help you see like, okay, I definitely want to I definitely want to take a grounding class, but I don't want to miss this speaker, so I better find a grounding class that's not the same time as that speaker. You know, like, it really allows you to plan and get a better picture of the week. In addition to that, in the next week or so, we'll have a, like, a PDF version of the schedule that's more visual, because I know a lot of us are visual. I certainly am. And we're not going to print the schedule this year because it just— it's a big willy schedule, and I just feel like that's going to be a ton of wasted paper where, you know, people are going to much more rely on the app. But I do know there are people that really want that printed schedule, and so we're designing this PDF to be downloadable and printable if you'd like to. It'll just be 8.5 by 11 that you can print out yourself, and that will be coming too. So if you, if you're like, I'm having a hard time with the app schedule, I need something more visual, that's coming. So definitely take care of those planning tools. Watch for updates. I would say the The way Alt Summit communicates with attendees is through a newsletter. And that's true for pretty much every conference I know of. So make sure you're subscribed. If you're not getting the newsletters, definitely email Alt Summit so we can double-check what's going on there, check your spam folder, whatever needs to happen. But read those emails, that's where you're gonna get information. Anytime we have updated about parties or hey, we've added tours, or hey, there's gonna be pre-signups for certain things, certain events you'll have to pre-sign up because it's very limited numbers, like a yoga class in the morning or things like that. So watch for those, or you're going to be frustrated that you feel like you've missed out. I would say meet up with anyone you can ahead of time, and I mean that digitally, but of course if you can do it in real life, that's awesome too. So reach out to connect with people on the app, reach out to them Um, if you're a volunteer, we have like a Facebook group for volunteers, but reach out. You can find roommates. All of a sudden a hotel becomes even more reasonable if you've got a roommate and you're cutting that in half. Um, anyway, so I would say, you know, if you can go in with— feel like you have a buddy going in, of course that helps, right? Um, and say, um, if you— some people this doesn't worry them at all. So if you're, uh, an extrovert and you just make friends easily, no problem. But if you're nervous like you feel like you're kind of showing up without a buddy, then I would say pay special attention to the activities we have on Sunday afternoon, which I've specifically chosen a lot of smaller group options where they really are focused on how to meet friends and what— how to get the most out of Alt Summit. And these are the kind of things on the schedule that are— like, I specifically have in mind new people that aren't quite sure how to start.

Yeah, where to start with this. So smart. So that they're walking in and they're saying, like, So, you know, combating those fears of like, what am I doing here? What's my plan? Am I just going to be, you know, a person shuffling in between classes and not maybe getting the most out of this? Because certainly while there's amazing information, a lot of what's great about ALT is all the stuff that's outside of classes and all that, you know, the in-between, the chatter and the connections. And, you know, I got tons of business from last year and I know, you know, I have, you know, dozens of friends and clients who they started deals and, you know, almost even closed them, everything but signed the paperwork.

At Summit while at the conference. Absolutely. So we're starting the day— we, we, um, so we did this last year. We started with, uh, our registration was actually a welcome party last year, and it was hugely successful. And so we're modeling the same thing this year. So when you get there on Sunday, drop your bags wherever you're at, jump on it, you know, whatever hotel you're at. If you're not at the Riviera, jump on a shuttle, come over to the welcome party at the Riviera. They'll be going all afternoon from like 1 o'clock till 6. I better double-check this schedule, maybe it's 2 o'clock. But anyway, there'll be, you know, things to eat, something to drink, you'll be poolside. It's going to be— we've moved back the conference a month, so it should be even warmer and even lovelier in Palm Springs at the end of March than it was at the end of February. And there'll be, you know, you'll get a welcome bag and you'll have— we'll have icebreaker activities so people can get to know each other even just right there at the party. So you'll immediately feel like you're there and you're being welcomed in and you can connect with other people. And then once you've gotten your stuff, you've got your badge, you've had fun at the party, there are courses happening immediately that Sunday. Right then you can stop and, you know, stop by the party and then head over to the Tawara or the ACE where you can take classes. And again, like I said, focused on new people that want to connect. So I would say pay special attention to Sunday afternoon And then also just keep watching for signups for anything that's sort of smaller groups. Like, I mean, if your concern is trying to connect with people, so watch for meetups and dinners, watch for tours, watch for these smaller group options that I feel like are easier to make friends in than of course being in a lecture of 300 people.

Yeah, than a large ballroom, you know. And yeah, be, I think, be open to those opportunities. I obviously, I think this is easier if someone identifies as an extrovert. But, you know, for all of us, sometimes, you know, just make, you know, kind of push yourself out of your comfort zone, even if you have the option of sitting with people that you know and love. And that can be wonderful. Maybe consider that not every meal needs to be like that. Like, go sit at a table where you don't know anybody.

Yeah, absolutely. And we have some interesting things this year that we haven't had before. So this year at the ACE, from Tuesday through Thursday, we're running a makerspace where every hour there's a new demo, meaning like a new arts or crafts where you can learn a new skill or just make a project, work on some jewelry, things like that. And the, the space is big enough that even if you're not interested in that particular demo, you'll be able to sit down and work on a project from one of the sponsor booths, maybe a nail art project or, you know, any kind of really anything. So it's if you need just like a place for some downtime and conversation and a more relaxed atmosphere, and you're like, I need a break from classes, that's going to be going and you can just drop by even if you're not even sure what they're teaching right then. You could drop by and know you'll have a creative break. So we really have tried to build in some places where, hey, these are just lounge areas where you can hang out. You can keep busy with your hands so you feel like you have a purpose and don't feel like you're loitering. Right.

Yeah. So you're not being like the awkward shuffling person, you know?

Yeah.

You, you, it's so much easier. I remember, you know, I got in a group of some ladies who I didn't meet any of them, and we were making those cool elephant, like, bright colored necklace, neon necklaces last year. And yeah, we got talking about politics and about, you know, the intersection of media and what everyone was working on. And it's so much easier to just do that because we're all just making cool necklaces, so, you know, of course we're going to chat.

Yeah, and it feels very low stakes and low pressure. And, you know, anyway, so it's— so we have that going for literally for days, and you can— that's an option. And we really have try to build these kinds of things into the schedule where you'll have a chance to get some downtime and you don't have to be like, you know, high energy, go, go, go all the time. I'm on my extrovert game, you know, like, no, not at all.

Yeah, you don't have to be the queen of Vault Summit yet to make, to make it successful.

Yeah, you really, really don't. Whether you've exchanged business cards or if you're— we also have a way to just exchange information on the app. Like, it's actually really cute when you're together with someone else, like at the conference, you both have the app, you can shake shake your phone at the same time. Oh my gosh, I love that. Yeah, really, really cute. And I was doing it with my daughter yesterday to try it out. It was really fun. But anyway, so whether you do business cards or just exchange information on the app, follow up with people. When you get home, send them a quick email or quick message, however you want to do it. That's just, hey, I'm following you on Instagram. I was really impressed when you said this. I loved meeting you. I just want to be connected with you. And if any cool opportunities come up this year, I'm going to be in touch and let you know I have an idea or something. You know, like any kind of little follow-up is so smart to do. Just amazing collaborations have come out of Alt Summit with, with exchanges exactly what, like I just described, where someone just said, hey, I really connected with you, I thought you were awesome. And then 3 months later, they're going, hey, I have this idea and you would be a great business partner for this.

You'd be a great fit. I'm looking for something, or I have an idea for a new book or a new course or a new product line. And you know, you're in that space. And I think that's really smart in that there's a way to do it that doesn't sound, you know, sales pitchy, that is, you know, thoughtful about the value that you're bringing. And again, you know, reflects back to someone else as just a quick reminder so that if someone's, you know, going through and looking for their email, their inbox, and trying to remember, didn't I meet someone who was in that? You know, just make it easy for them to find you and to remember what exactly it is that you do or you're interested in. Right.

And certainly different people have different approaches. Some people want to give out 200 business cards and they want to feel like they know everyone and they're good at sort of, hey, I walked away with like 2 friends and that was plenty. And that's fine too. That's great. I mean, it's really whatever it is you're looking for. So if you're kind of going and going, I'm kind of looking for a business partner, I think there's a very high likelihood you'll find someone that will either end up being the business partner or will connect you to them. You know, like that's very possible to find.. And if you're there more like, no, no, no, I want to connect with as many people as possible, I'm kind of promoting my upcoming book, or, you know, whatever it is that's on your mind, that's also very doable. So everyone comes to the conference with different aims, and there's a way to— we try to be very careful about how we've designed it, so there's a way to accomplish whatever it is you're trying to accomplish.

Oh, I think that's really smart. So, oh, that's, that's wonderful. Well, kind of the last thing I just wanted to kind of get your, you know, your thoughts on, because you have such a great, you know, bird's eye view, I think, of what's happening, like you said, at the intersection of design and motherhood and, you know, especially content creation, because you've seen the waves of different things of long format and then social media, and now we have video. Um, you know, what are you seeing that's exciting you, or, you know, what, what do you think is, um, you know, in terms of macro trends that you're, you're seeing and that you think people are going and should be maybe moving towards, you know, this year?

Well, I don't know if this will excite anyone, but hey, if it's exciting to you. Well, I feel like what I've seen is just as far as content goes, readers expect their content creators to acknowledge the current political climate and take that seriously. So for example, if you have always just done simple DIYs, you now have to do simple DIYs and also acknowledge if there's a horrible thing that happens in the world, whether it's polar vortex or it's again a political thing or whatever it might be. And so, all these people that have platforms and maybe just felt like they could stay to their niche, I don't think that's true anymore. And I think that changed the day Trump got elected. And You really can't just ignore and stay focused on your niche anymore. So, so that's what I'm seeing is that people who have not attempted to either make a stand or have an opinion or, or invite that kind of conversation on their blog are now doing so. And from what I've seen, it's been hugely positive and well received. Like what I see is, um, and I, I've been tackling, you know, difficult topics because I can't— because I can't— so we're talking about parenting and things like that, and that covers everything for a long time. So that's not new to me. But when I watch someone that hasn't tackled it before and then they write a thoughtful Instagram post or a blog post or whatever it might be where they— where they attempt to, you know, dip their finger in that, the response is really positive. It's lots of, 'Thank you for saying something. I 'You know, I read your blog every day and it's important to me that you care about this subject. I really appreciate this.' Um, that is the kind of response I see. And, uh, we may get into a fluffier time again. I can, you know, things come in waves, right? And so I will not surprise me, but right now people are in the mood for some more serious content. I've even heard people talking about how they feel like they read more nonfiction these days than fiction. It's like, it's, it's like almost fills, um, They just need that more serious stuff versus— yeah, they need something substantive. That's a perfect word. So that's the trend I'm seeing. And if, if you're not, uh, tackling that kind of thing, you may be seeing your readership drop off. And if you are tackling that kind of thing, I'm betting you're seeing your readership grow. Um, there's, there's probably something weird in it too, um, where people want some drama. So maybe they, um you know, readers, they might, they might see you tackle something that is a controversial topic and then see people fighting in the comments. And so there's maybe a draw that way, which is too bad. I mean, that's certainly not, um, I hope that's not the goal for, for people that are tackling these things. But, um, that may be why we're seeing some increase in, in traffic, I guess, is what I'm trying to—

No, I think that's really interesting. And I think for people who who are listening to this who are like, well, I mean, that sounds good in theory, but like, I talk about hosting kids' birthday parties. How am I supposed to broach that divide in terms of bringing in, or am I gonna get pushback of people like, hey, stay in your lane, or this is why I get off Facebook 'cause I don't wanna hear this kind of stuff. I think you could still be thoughtful in terms of, well, not make it contrived in terms of what matters to other people, but if it means something to you, And then you would like to say something on it. Then I think that's what comes off as being authentic and being vulnerable from a place of wholeness and not just, 'Oh, I'm going to talk about sad things because I'm hoping that increases my engagement.' Right.

I'm not jumping on the trend. It's more like, 'Oh, when I watch the news, this is what's affecting me personally. And I'm going to start from that place.' And that's where people find it effective. And if you're worried about backlash, you can certainly do something like You know, let people know, hey, this is— I'm going to try this once a month. I'm calling it my X column or whatever you want to call it. And I want to talk about things that are more personal things that are affecting me. And those can very, very much overlap with news stories, if that makes sense. And then it also allows readers that aren't interested in that. They're like, no, I really am just there for the birthday party ideas, to totally bypass that and skip it. You know, they know it's coming. They know it's this column, skip that post, no problem.

Yeah, no, no, exactly. Yeah, no, no, no harm, no foul. But, um, but yeah, no, I, I think that's a really, that's a really interesting point. So, um, anything else that you're, you're seeing, or something that you wish maybe would disappear that you could see less of?

Um, I, I, I want to see, um, I know people complain about, uh, different things about Instagram. And from a content creator's point of view, it's often about like, hey, where did— why am I not seeing growth or traffic or that kind of thing? I have other issues with Instagram. I feel like— I mean, yes, I, I can see the same slow growth kind of issues, but for me, it's, uh, I, I feel like it needs a whole overhaul in the kind of content we're seeing on there. And, um, I don't know, even— I mean, maybe stories was enough, but I don't know, sometimes what I would love to see is the truly instant part of Instagram that was there at the beginning where you'd get on and it was, you took a picture of literally what was happening right then and you put a filter on it and you shared it. And obviously that happens maybe more now in stories, but The what I see in the feeds is so carefully put together. It's curated to the 9th degree. But yeah, to the 9th degree. I know that they had to take that picture with a different camera, download it over here, email it over here, edit it on this, get it to, you know, and I'm like, there's nothing instant about it. It's all been planned 3 weeks in advance. And I get discouraged by it. Like, I see that and I'm like, someone spent a lot of hours on this Instagram post that's going to be seen by not that many people. It doesn't feel like it lives forever in the same way a blog post might, where you can keep pointing people to it. Like, it's really hard to point someone to an old Instagram post. Yeah. Um, and that is discouraging to me. I feel like that's a ton of work that I feel like is a little bit wasted. And so if I saw Instagram revert back to, uh, just those, you know, literally instant grams, you know, like instant post grams or whatever they were trying to do at the time, or telegrams, That would be fine with me. And I don't know, I worry about how much people invest their time in Instagram because they don't own it and it's hard to access.

They do not own it. Yeah, a really good reminder, guys, to read terms of use and privacy policies. I know, I know none of you guys do. I know you all check the boxes and move on. But yeah, just to be thoughtful about your, about, you know, what's your strategy. And when you're investing a lot of time, if something's a content creation platform, platform, and you know, what are you getting out of it and what do you want people to do? And is this the best way, most efficient way for you to do that and communicate that messaging?

So that's probably what's on my mind with Instagram, is just I worry about people.

Yeah. Yes.

And we want them to be successful and sharing their beautiful things, but in a way that makes sense. I do. Yeah, for sure. Um, okay, well, are there any other, um, tips last minute that you want to share as we're coming out and people who are interested in Alt or interested in hearing more information, where, where can they find you?

Where can they connect? So I'm @designmom on everything, so you can always find me there. But, um, and then Alt Summit is @altsummit, A-L-T-S-U-M-M-I-T. And I definitely, uh, want you to go check out the app if you haven't. It is, um, there's a web view, so even if you're not attending, um, there's an FAQ on the Alt Summit blog that you can find that has the, the the web view and how to download and all that stuff. So again, whether you're going or not, if you're curious about the conference, that's a great way to see what's happening. It lists all the speakers and you can explore that. You can explore the schedule. Um, and yeah, I'm really, really excited. If you are thinking about coming, there's still time. It's really 2 months away from the day that I'm recording this, so you've got time and, um, come. I mean, you've still got plenty of time to buy plane tickets, to book a hotel room, So if it's on your mind, make it happen.

You'll be—

you will not regret it, I promise, for sure. Well, thank you so much, Gabby. It was so fun to have you on today.

Wasn't that just amazing? I loved listening to all of Gabby's wisdom and, and just seeing her journey of where— how she started in the design field in terms of designing for other people and then freelancing, and then how that has grown and her experience with design and writing, um, and building a community and expressing herself and connecting with other people has grown into this beautiful rainbow-colored, um, oasis in the desert now of Palm Springs, um, that is, you know, helping to create other people's dreams. There are so many amazing rock star brands and influencers, um, that you, that you know of for sure who have, um, who have really built their dreams on the backs of Alt Summit. And so it's really cool to see all that come to fruition and to hear kind of the backstory. Here is a summary of Gabby's tips that she gave us about making the most out of a conference. So whether that's Alt Summit or another conference that you're headed to this season, take away these tips. You know, write them down. I'm actually going to have a little handout with these, so if you don't have something handy to take notes now, that is going to be a freebie benefit to the episode that you can find at brittanybrettel.com/freebie. Www.altschool.com/33. Okay, for episode 33. The first is to make it— make use of planning tools that are offered, you know, look up the schedule, use an app if there's an app like at Alt, and make sure you have a good bird's-eye view of what's going on when, keeping in mind travel times, transition, and that you have enough white space in your schedule. The next is to check for updates, make sure that you're getting those conference emails and that you've whitelisted everything. And because Because certainly with alt, there's a lot of small group gatherings. I know last year there was, you know, some dinner parties, there was some tours of the Pink Door, whatnot. And there was a lot of folks who kind of had some FOMO after the fact because they, they weren't getting the emails. They didn't have them and they weren't going, you know, to their primary tab, however your email system is set up, enough that they were signing up in time. So make sure that you are connecting with anyone that you are really excited about meeting with ahead of time. So don't think that you're just going to wander across them, or for that to be your plan. You know, that's maybe a backup and backup if you can't connect with someone, but try to be really proactive about that. So whether that's digitally or in real life, try to connect beforehand and at least have maybe a plan of class you're going to go together, or a time where you're going to meet up. And, you know, try to make some of those connections so that you already have something to to look forward to and that you've already kind of planned out. If you have some really key people that you want to get in touch with while you're there, you can also use the Facebook group to find roommates, um, to, you know, get those hotel expenses a little bit lower, to arrange rides. I know a lot of folks, they, um, there was quite a few people last year who at Alt who all helped give each other rides for those who had flights that were flying out of LA, you know, from, from Palm Springs. So that's another really handy thing. And especially helps if you don't have a buddy going in. Obviously, if you have a buddy, team up, you know, divide and conquer. But if you don't, then you're flying solo. That's a good way to start really meeting and greeting people. And then next is that pay attention to smaller group activities, okay? This is going to be your time to shine. Those of you who might be a little bit on the quieter side, a little bit more shy, or you're feeling a little outgunned, or, you know, a little timid about approaching a conference like this with thousands of people and want to know how are you going to be able to connect with people and really do it in a way that makes sense and that brings value to the whole experience. So look for those little small meet and greets, those makerspace activities, those orientations, those, um, you know, not shows on the patio, whatever, that might be a smaller group of people. And the last is that Look for something that you can do where there are lower stakes. Like Gabby mentioned, they're going to have makerspaces. I took advantage of that last year, like I'm— like I talked about in the show, and it was awesome. I met several women. One of them is also going to be a podcast guest in a few weeks, Maura. And it was just— it was a really cool opportunity for me to, um, yeah, to just kind of spread my wings. And, you know, I didn't have to talk with someone who was from where I lived or who didn't what I did or who knew anything about me and what I do. It could be people in completely different spaces. Just use and fall back on those tried and true people skills. Make sure that you're asking questions about other people. Reread your 7 Habits. Go back to your Stephen Covey days if you need a refresher. People like to talk about themselves, so ask questions of other people. That's going to get you farther. Make sure you're doing good reflective listening and making eye contact. Make sure that you're trying to use people's names or do something to try to remember their names and to try to make that connection. That really helps a long way into making good small talk and letting that small talk maybe go into further development. So, so, and those are the— and then lastly, the follow-up after the conference, which it can almost be just as important, which is to whether you've exchanged business cards or done your cute little shake on the app, try to find some way to follow up with people and to remind them that, hey, I really enjoy connecting with you. We talked about this. I loved going to this class with you. Or remember we had that great conversation at the pool around this. If you are ever interested in— maybe remind them what you do, or maybe remind them of something you talked about or an idea you had or something else to kind of pin people's memory in a conversation. Because if you've ever— you guys know how it is. Have you been to a conference events like this, you come home with just a stack of business cards and you're like, what am I supposed to do now? What exactly am I supposed to do? And, you know, I'm sure you'll probably have a better aim, an idea of what's your— what are your goals? You know, are you trying to just increase exposure and want to try to get everyone sign up on your list and just kind of, you know, scattershot? Or are you looking for some targeted people to connect with because you have more maybe bigger projects, so, you know, more intimate offerings like a partnership, like a joint venture, like a sponsored content, you know, sponsorship relationship that you're really looking at connecting with. Um, but again, it makes it so easier if someone can get off of a stack of business cards and then into their inbox with something that they can search. So that way, if they're in their mind and they're coming up in there, you know what, we thought we wanted to, you know, launch a new print that has something to do, you know, with a shibori dyeing Now, who is it that's into shibori dyeing? Well, if you've already written somewhere about that because you guys did that together or you talked about it or you're an educator in that space, then there's a much better chance that they're going to be able to connect it and remember and find you and connect you about it. But you got to differentiate, okay? Don't just be another name on— even on a really cute business card. You got to take some steps to do something else above and beyond that, okay? And then that's the kind of connection that can really breed really useful innovation and proposals and business growth opportunities and projects out of an amazing conference like this. So I hope you enjoyed this episode and, um, and we'll tune in to next week. I've got some other really incredible guests lined up. I've just been busy, busy, busy bee and recording a lot of great episodes. Um, and so we have, uh, Melanie Burke coming up, um, who's an amazing graphic designer friend of mine. We have, um, Elle Rowley of Solly Baby who's on here. We have Talk Wordy to Me Kim Christiansen. We have someone else, Maura Aaron-Mills, who's a political advisor and digital media maven, um, who I also met at Alt. We've got all kinds of incredible people coming in the podcast, so make sure you are subscribed, you're tuned in, and that you're showing up here every week as I'm showing up for you, because we are building a more confident creative and even if that doesn't look like anyone else's business, even if your spouse doesn't understand what you do, or your sister, or your church group, or the lady who helps you watch your kids, even if you have a tough time at book club explaining what it is you do, we get it. We're here with you, and we understand that this is an incredible time to be an entrepreneur, to be a woman, to be able to work and bring our multi-passionate lives and the things and the talents that we're interested in and bring them to life in a way that can serve others, that is look different and it has different opportunities than have ever been available. So I'm so grateful that you guys are choosing here to, to be on this journey. Yes, I know I just said journey. Cue, cue the symbols and the crystals, um, that come with me. And not, not to get all cat poster on it, but, um, I just really appreciate you guys. I really appreciate you being here, you trusting me with your time, and that you understand that we can tackle this hard stuff, okay? That all of this, um, that you can figure out, that you are completely capable right now, right, just the way that you are, of becoming the business owner that you want to be. And that so much of this is just in your head, and it's just taking one step at a time to figure out what do I need to do next to protect my brand, to grow my team, to launch that next product, to have that next course to lock this stuff down and develop my name and what I care about in a way that will allow me to serve the people I want to serve and make the difference that I want to make in the world. So, okay, so there you go. Cue the Chicken Soup for the Soul music. I read those books as a teenager. Actually, my dad had me read those books as a teenager. I don't know if anyone else remembers that, but oh, all the days of the, the simple clip art when we did know what we didn't know. So thanks so much for being here, guys, and I hope you tune in next week and each and every week. And let's work on building some incredible, incredible creative businesses.