From Etsy Shop to Multi-Million Dollar Business with Elle Rowley of Solly Baby - 44

Law and Wit, Episode 44: From Etsy Shop to a Multi-Million Dollar Business with Elle Rowley from Solibaby. Welcome to Law and Wit, Creative Counsel for Entrepreneurs. I'm your host, Brittany Rettell, mother of 4, entrepreneur, naptime lawyer, and attorney for creative entrepreneurs. I'm here to share inspiration and action so that you can tackle your business blocks and confidently own your business in every sense of the word. Thank you so much for being here.

Hello listeners and welcome back, and I am so excited to dive into our conversation today. I have Elle Rowley on the podcast, um, and I'm sure she doesn't really need an introduction, but here we go, here we are, I'm going to give it to you anyway. Um, she is the owner of Solee Baby, um, you know, the amazing, um, children's baby product company, um, that first got started in 2011 when she sewed her first Little Soli Baby Wrap in her sewing nook in her Salt Lake City house, and it was named after her second son, Solomon. And she's been using these techniques of baby wearing to make it fun and fashionable and has grown this multimillion-dollar business that's headquartered out of California. She lives with her husband Jared in San Diego with their 4 children, and she is just an all-around mompreneur, boss babe, educator, mother, inspirer. And a wonderful, wonderful woman. And so we are so excited to have her on and share her wisdom with you today.

Wow, that was like the nicest intro I've ever gotten. Thank you. It's way too generous.

That's why we do podcasts, right? Is because we all really want to hear someone else talking about us nicely and have it recorded for all of posterity. I mean, that's the real rub right there.

I'm going to make my kids listen to that like every day once this comes out.

Well, you'll just point and you'll be like, hey, I think you need 5 minutes. You need some podcast time or write out some lines or something.

Yes, I like that.

We all need it. Um, so yeah, Ella and I were just talking, our, our kids are similar ages, we've been married similar times, um, and I have loved following, um, from, from near and afar. I've gotten to meet Elle a couple different times, um, just to watch her brand grow. And especially because I think it's so cool to see a product-based business that has so much heart behind it, um, that still has such smart branding in the way it's connecting and growing community. And also being relevant to women even when they're maybe not exactly in her ideal client avatar stage, which happens when you have a product that's, you know, we can only wear our babies for so long, much to our utter chagrin. We wish we could probably wear them a lot longer. But I'd love to hear, Elle, just kind of give us some of your origin story of how Cellibaby came to be for those that may not be familiar with it.

Oh, okay, I'd love to. Um, yeah, so in 2011 I was pregnant with— actually 2010— pregnant with my son Solomon, and I had used a lot of different carriers with— actually, I had not used a lot of different carriers. I've used a carrier with my first baby Lucy, and she was 2 and a half at this time. And while it was a total lifesaver when I had Lucy, And because she was colicky and I was a new mom and really didn't— was just kind of just learning how to soothe and take care of a baby. When I would wear her in this more structured carrier, I got a lot of tension headaches from the straps. And so going into having my second baby, I was like, I know I'm going to wear him a lot. I love that experience, but I wanted to wear him a different way. And so I'd had friends say that they'd had wraps and that they were really comfortable. I'd never even like held one, but I had seen, I'd seen what it looked like. And, um, and then another friend of mine that was pregnant at the same time said, hey, let's, um, she said, I saw online that you could like DIY your own wrap. And so I'd been in the fabric district in LA and, uh, got some knit fabric for us from the dollar section. Awesome.

It was probably a really swanky print. Yeah.

Oh, it's like really, yeah, I mean, it's like basically Fabric District's a lot of like leftover kind of imports that's not the highest quality, but still, even, even still, I wore him in that when I had my son Solomon that spring. So now 2011, and I made one for my friend as well. And just this really rough, you know, design. And I just, the experience, it just fell in love with immediately. I just had so much confidence wearing him, having him sleep in there for hours at a time, and to still be able to take care of my daughter and be super engaged with her. And that ended up to me also starting a company while wearing him in the wrap. A lot of layers to this.

A lot of layers. I like it.

I like the layers.

He's in the wrap, I'm selling wraps, making wraps. It's funny, but I, I got really excited too about the idea of, of, um, just the simplicity of a fabric carrier like that. And I just thought, this— it's like the anti-gear baby gear. It's just so simple. You could make it so pretty. Why isn't anyone making this like a fashion accessory? It could be so pretty.

And so it's like a cool, like, infinity scarf that actually can do something.

Yeah, exactly. And so then, you know, just like fast forward, really test it, kind of like made my, got a serger, $50 on Craigslist, really started going out at my house, you know, moved all the furniture over to one side, made a fabric on the ground, made a pattern on the ground and just made it work literally during nap time. And, um, and just to prove kind of the proof of concept, sell them on Etsy, see how they did. And, and they sold, they did well online, not in person. Like pop-up shops or boutiques, um, that kind of a thing. But that, uh, from there then I kind of went into phase 2 of the business of really developing, uh, just the best wrap I possibly could. And, um, and you know, now here we are 8 years later and been able to grow, work with a ton of other different designers for designer collaborations, and just really made this, this really functional kind of art piece that, um, that serves moms and babies and dads and babies and everybody. It's just been so fun.

Everybody who wants to be close to their little ones. Yeah, exactly, the world over. So, um, and it's— I mean, it's just amazing because I remember, um, I, I mean, I did similar. I remember making my own wrap, and then I remember hearing about yours, um, because I had several friends and who, who know and loved them. And so I remember getting one of yours, and, um, yeah, I mean, it's just— it's incredible the difference it makes to be able to have your baby be comfortable. And especially if you're, you know, if baby is— has colic or is struggling or, um, you know, that you just— you feel like, yeah, you can get your life back. And I mean, I remember throwing a baby in a wrap and like, because the new newest Harry Potter movie was coming out and I went and saw Harry Potter 7 and she was like completely happy. She just slept through the whole thing and she was a new, new baby. But I was like, well, I don't even have to take her out. I don't have to touch anything. Like, I'm I feel fine with her. Like, yeah, we both enjoyed that experience. So yeah, it's—

there's nothing quite as womb-like as being in a wrap. You know, it just really does. So I think it's the closest thing to mimicking that experience for them. They can hear your heartbeat. They're in this comfortable fabric. Like, it's just—

yeah, obviously, obviously you're a fan. You know that fourth trimester. So, um, So yeah, tell us where, um, where Silly Baby is at now. You have your husband is working with you, um, you guys are in California, but how many employees are— or do you have, guys, now? What does your team look like now?

Um, I feel like I have to count this every day. I think there are 10 of us, um, and most of us— well, we all work remotely. We have an office in Carlsbad over this cute little office by the beach, and, um, we love it. My husband and I both, we kind of go back and forth for work because my intention in starting the business was to feel like a stay-at-home mom but to make a lot of money doing a business that I really cared about. And, um, I really felt like added value in the world. And so that's where we are now, and, um, it's been amazing to be able to to scale it and to still have the lifestyle that we— that I set out to, to build. And so I love that my husband— my husband right now is with the, you know, our kids that are at home, and I'm working today, and tomorrow we'll switch. And of course there's like some crazy in that. I don't want it to sound like this perfect like fairy tale, like now I check in and then I check out and I'm just like, now I'm at the park.

There are never any hitches and everyone is really fine with it.

Yeah, yeah. And nobody ever— like, I don't even think about the business when I'm not at work. Like, that's not the reality of my life. But, um, but overall, I mean, I had a mom— I had a single mom that, you know, went to work for 40+ hours a week for my entire growing up years, you know. And she absolutely made the best of that. But like, this— that compared to a lifestyle that I'm able to enjoy is just— she could have only dreamed to have had a setup like I do, you know.

Well, that's wonderful. And I mean, and I think that shows in so much of your intentionality of how you've set up your business, how you've grown your business in terms of what are your priorities, um, and how can you be smart about that and smart about your time. I mean, I love what you said there of like you wanted to have a business that made money, um, then also solved a problem and that brought real value to people, um, and you didn't think that— and that you still got to spend the time with your kids that you wanted to and felt like was important, um, and you didn't think that all of those were mutually exclusive.

Right, thank you. Yeah, we live in a whole new world, right, for the possibilities. It's amazing.

It is, it is really amazing. Um, so tell me about, um, the name, um, Sully, because I was talking to someone and they said, you know, you should ask Elle about that because I think she had, um, kind of some, you know, even first on, first off, you know, in her journey that she had to, um, she kind of had to change her name or had some, some legal brush-ins, which I'm always, you know, curious as to How can we share those cautionary tales with other people just so that in their business building process that they can, you know, try to move forward and even, you know, deal with some setbacks that sometimes come when we're in those early stages?

Oh yeah, it's funny because, you know, now it's like this distant memory, but of course at the time it felt like the end of the world. And this is also a funny kind of debate in our house because originally it was called Luluropps. Which my first daughter is Lucy, and Solly is after Solomon, my son. Just like the battle of sibling rivalry.

Yeah. So which kid gets to be the empire heir? I mean, there you go. Yeah.

Yeah. So now I have two more. Luckily, they're not aware enough yet to hassle me about it. But yeah, Lucy.

Later they can work on that with their therapist. That's not for you to worry about.

Good material. Um, but yes, with Lulu Wraps, which I am really glad that this happened because in retrospect it was— I always wanted to have other product extensions, and so I was happy to have the chance to rename, um, the business and, and have more possible, like, more room for growth in terms of product lines. But, um, but yeah, Lulu, uh, there turned out We got a letter from— it was like a Lulu wraps. It was like a packaging, like a fabric packaging company, I believe. I wonder if they're still in business. Anyway, they, they wrote us a letter from their lawyer, um, maybe— I'm not sure if it's their lawyer or them just saying like, look, you're gonna get sued if you don't change the name. This is our name. And they were out of state, so So I actually took it to a friend of mine who's trademark and copyright lawyer, and I said, is this legit? Do we need to change the name? And he said, absolutely not. And we changed it anyway. We changed it anyway. I was like, this is not worth it. And this— I really hadn't taken a ton of time naming the business in the first place. So Yeah, it was kind of a nice point too. It was stressful, of course, because you think anytime you're getting traction, you don't want to start over. And that's what it feels like, you know, don't name social handles. And yeah, you know, I've had clients who've definitely feels like two steps back, right? Yeah.

Yeah.

So all those things. Yeah. So that's what we did. Although I will tell you that my favorite thing though is when I see someone, and this only happens every few years, but they'll like be wearing one of those like original Lulu wraps. That has it on it, every time I just burst into tears because this just represents such a specific point in my journey, business's journey. So anyway, yeah.

Yeah, the how far you've come and stuff. But that's cool to me to have that perspective. And yeah, I think Solely Baby is a great name, but I mean, it's a great name because of the business you built behind it. You know what I mean? You, you do a good job, you research your name and you know, ideally you have someone, you know, you do a good Google search and a trademark search to see what else is out there. Um, but then you have your name and then you build the business around it because it's not really about the name guys. It's about everything else that's connected to it. So just, you know, put your flag in the sand and then build all the other things around it.

So yeah.

Yeah, I totally agree. Oh, and I wanted to say along with that, So then we did, um, when we went to trademark Stolly Baby, um, we had trouble there too. And that time we dug in and we're like, no, this— and we had two lawyers tell us we wouldn't win it.

Really?

Yeah.

That we wouldn't— we weren't going to be able to get it. They just thought this other company, um, was too, too big, like that the industries, um, that there was too much crossover in categories.. And we're like, and they're like, no, you should just change it. And we were, we were a few years in. How embarrassing that we took that long to do that. It was like number one bad idea is to wait a few years to trademark the name. Such a bad idea. Um, but I was so glad that we, we really, um, no white flag that time. We really dug in.

We're like, let's, good for you guys. Yeah. Yeah, and you're like, no, this is our name, and you got it. So which just shows you how, I mean, how crazy trademark law can be sometimes. So that's why, I mean, my, my clients, they always want like, well, what's the percentage? And I'm like, no, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna give that to you because it's so hard to know, um, because this totally depends on, you know, what the Patent and Trade Office, you know, Copyright Office, Trademark Office thinks about stuff. And, um, but yeah, good for you guys for just going for it and getting that protection for sure for your brand.

Thank you. Felt like real grown-ups.

Yep, that's, that's real, like, next level business adulting. Like, trademark with the R and the golden circle around it. That's right, like big spenders. That's, that's you guys for sure. Yeah. Um, so tell us about what it was like having your, um, husband come on. Actually, back up. I have— there was one other part I was listening to on a podcast, um, about— tell us about the fateful Christmas show, the Christmas show that did not go well. You know, the— this is like the Grinch, and if the Grinch had like come down and ruined, you know, an arts and crafts show, this is what would have happened. This little baby.

Yeah. Oh my gosh, it really was, um, such a good learning experience, um, let's just say that. And I— yeah, we had— this is still on the super early days, and I really was just like, let's get out there. And when I say let's, I mean me.

My family was very supportive, but it was, it was, it was a royal we. But yeah, it was you. You're a one-woman show. Yes.

Yeah, like, I'm just gonna get out there and I'm gonna— I am just gonna talk to people. I'm gonna get it online, get it in person, get it in boutiques, and just see what sticks, you know, see what, what's really good. Gonna be the right platform for us, which I really do suggest to, um, other brands as well, other companies starting out. Like, you just assume that this one platform is gonna be the way, and you just don't know, you know, until, until you've failed a bunch. So, um, one of my failures was there's this— I think it's like South Jordan Christmas show or something in Utah that they do every year, and the lady. I, I don't know how— what my connection was. Somebody told me about it, like, oh, they get like, you know, 20,000 people over a few days, and— or even more than that, like 50,000 or something. And, um, everybody sells out of everything they bring to it. And some things are handmade and some things are imported. Like, it doesn't matter, it's just this big show and you get a ton of people there. And so I charged it on our credit card I think it was $1,000, $1,500 or something for the booth, which just seemed like this is insane. And, um, I mean, it was money we didn't have. And I was like, but we only have to sell this many wraps and then we'll make it back. And we had, I had hired two seamstresses to help me make the wraps for it. And then they both, they both quit a few days before and I thought that they were It might have been— I might be getting the chronology wrong there. It might have been one. I'd hired one and she quit, and then I hired another, and then right before the show she quit. I think that might have been it.

Moral of the story, you were in a tight spot.

Super tight spot. Because now I have like— I just put all of our money into the show and I don't have finished wraps to bring to it. And so— and I got the flu and my husband had finals. Just one of those— everything was piling up on top of me. And I remember just laying on the ground, like, because all my furniture have been moved over to one side of the room for the pattern, and I didn't even have the couch out.

Because wraps, guys, they take up a lot of room. Okay, yeah, these are not like washcloths we're dealing with here. Yeah, it's a lot of yards of fabric.

Yes, I'm like crying on the floor and nursing a baby and sick. And I made my husband go to school to take his final because I was like, well, this surely isn't gonna work out, so you better get your degree. Yeah, we're gonna need it.

Yeah, we're not putting all of our eggs in this basket, honey. Go, go run along.

Yeah. And so anyway, then that afternoon, all of a sudden my brother shows up, another brother shows up, my mom shows up, my mother-in-law had driven straight from California. Everybody shows up— my brother-in-law, his girlfriend— and everybody just starts like sewing and cutting threads and putting drawstrings and labels. It was just like amazing. I mean, they were like fairy godmothers, you know, just came in and made it and made it work. But, uh, the funny thing is then we get to the Christmas show, I had enough product to bring, you know, and I'm like, we're doing this. And, uh, no, not many people bought anything. Like, I didn't make the money back. I did sell a few, but we did not make our money back on that.

It wasn't, you know, it wasn't a doorbuster sale.

Yeah, not even close. I was like, oh wait, people come to Christmas shows to buy Christmas decorations, not baby gear. This is interesting. I mean, you know, retrospect, whatever, but, um, But yeah, so it was a really good learning experience for me though, and really helped me know like, okay, let's stop putting so much energy into these face-to-face events and pop-ups because it's— and I had done a few others that had been met with about the same level of success and thought, this is, this is not going to be my way. And it also was the most taxing in terms of like time away from family and just the stress level.

Oh yeah, and you gotta be there and yeah, I mean, there are a ton of work. Yeah, so for sure.

So there's a Christmas.

Yeah, well, thanks for sharing. I mean, I can see the image of your family swooping down and, you know, for sure, like Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo style of helping you out in the last minute. But, um, yeah, that's, uh, you know, and so we're recouping from that, you know, after that Christmas show. I mean, Walk me through what was it like for you and, you know, for your husband? Did you think like, we're done here, I don't want to do this anymore? Or, you know, how did you talk yourself into, well, maybe I just need to try something else and I can sell these in a different way?

It's so funny. I don't, I, I don't remember the exact, like, the roller coaster or right after that. I'm sure that I had it, but I don't— for whatever reason, I still felt pretty motivated. Um, and, and my husband is really good at having this perspective of like the fail fast. Like, it's a numbers game. It's like just— it's math, you know? Um, it's stop, stop, uh, buying into all the drama.

Um, stop beating yourself up over it. Just pivot.

Yeah. Just pivot. Exactly. And so what, what was really another turning point though was from there going to Alt Summit for the first year, uh, in Salt Lake. Did you go that year? It was 2012.

I didn't, but I, I went to like go— I went and met some friends after, so like I, I got to like see and hang out, but I didn't actually attend that year.

But so it was right— yeah, that was January of 2012. And so I've been going at this, you know, not like half a year. And, um, I mean, as far as like actually selling, before that was like development and everything else. But anyway, so January hits and I go to that conference totally on a whim. I mean, I'm a business owner, not a blogger. I guess I had a blog, but that's not really why I was there. Yeah, you're not a content creator.

You have a product business.

Yeah, right. But I just thought my brother-in-law was like, I think this would be good for you to go to. And I was like, okay, let's go together. And, um, and so we went and Ben Silverman, the founder of Pinterest, spoke. And he said, he said, um, that when he was creating Pinterest, that literally no one understood what he was doing. Which I just like had visions of all of these people walking past my booth at the Christmas show, like, seriously, like, what, what is this? You're selling a piece of fabric. You're like this stay-at-home mom selling a piece of fabric and telling me to put my baby in it.

It's like so weird, whatever, like crazy lady of Jersey.

Yeah, totally crazy rap lady. And anyway, he said nobody understood it. He said not even my parents. He said, but I— and I realized one thing. He's like, if you don't bet on you, nobody else will.

And, um, yes.

And so even though not everyone understood the concept of Pinterest, like, he was like, he's like, this board is like a collage, but not, you know. Like, which is a much more, um, out there idea than a rap. Yeah. But anyway, he said once, you know, because I believed in it so much and I— like, he had his own back in it— that it made it easier for other people to jump on board. And so that really struck me, that I still wasn't totally betting on myself, if that makes sense. Um, And it just, for whatever reason, I mean, that like absolutely put some fire under me. And I remember making a blog post, like I wrote that huge on a piece of paper, like I'm betting on me this year. And I took a picture, put it on the blog, like I'm just like announcing this. Like I have always been such a good supporter of other people and friends and family. And, you know, supported my husband through school and like I've bet on everybody else and it's time for me to bet on myself too, that I can do things. And so that, um, I feel like in some ways that was the real, real beginning there.

The real turning point. Oh, I love that. I love that, Elle. I'm betting on me this year, you know? I mean, just really doubling down and whatever that looks like for your business. But yeah, just, um, You know, to quit the negative self-talk or the doubts or the fears or, you know, playing small because it's safer, but just decide to really do it.

Yeah. Because it really is just a choice. It's just like, it's not, okay, once I find enough evidence, then I'll be confident. Once I find— no, you just actually decide. And when that fear comes up, you decide it again and again and again. So yep, I'm feeling some fear and I'm still betting on me. I'm still, I'm still just moving forward.

You know? Oh, exactly.

Oh, I hope everyone's really listening to that and copying that down. And oh, we are gonna make a pretty printable out of that. You better believe it. Yeah, so speaking of Pinterest and all the things, no, but that's such an incredible point and perspective to have on that. So you were ready to bet on yourself, you're ready to change. How did you, how long before you got your husband on board? 'Cause I know he had some other plans. He was maybe gonna do law school, of course, because, you know, being a lawyer is just the absolute best. Um, but he decided not to, and he helped some startups for a while, and then he came on over to Sully.

Yeah, exactly. And he, he had finished— I mean, this was like— Sully, maybe, is like the undergraduate plan, right? Like, okay, you're gonna go to school. This is—

this—

maybe I can make this last through graduate school and make enough money to, like, help subsidize, our living. So we're not just totally living on student loans. So anyway, as that plan changed and just everything just kept changing and changing, he's like, now I want to do an MBA. Now I'm going to work with these startups. And I was like, hey, I got a startup here.

You want to work on something? I know, I know a real cute start— an entrepreneur that I'm pretty sure you have an in with.

So yeah. And, uh, this one's making money. Which is more than you can pay for all the other ones that you're working on with other friends and stuff. And so, but he really, I mean, in his defense, he was like, he's like, I don't, I don't want all of the pressure to go on you because in the end this is your business. And so it's like, I can, it'll always be a supportive role for me, which is true and has been true. Yeah. But I think as I really just So we kept talking over the next year because it's about how long it took. Um, I was like, look, I, I mean, I'm doing this clearly. I'm doing it either way. So there's, there's some pressure here no matter what. I can— I'm just gonna have to learn to handle it, right? And, um, and so, and I was like, just do this with me for a few years and then we can look and see, you know, if you want to start something else. And so once he did, it was It just freed me up so much that, uh, as hard as it was for us to establish these new roles, at the same time it really did free us, um, free me up to grow the business a lot more. I mean, I was still shipping everything. They were like 2, 2 years in or so more. And, um, yeah, which is just stupid. Yeah. So anyway, you gotta hire help, but it's hard to know what, what point to do that. And so it's really nice to— it felt so safe to have him helping me. And, and really just to see the exponential growth of the business once, just even having one more person in it is pretty awesome.

Yeah. Just to see, you know, the new opportunities or new, you know, just having that time for you to really be more of the CEO and the visionary and not just the person who's the taskmaster in the business. Exactly, exactly.

Yeah.

And I know you've talked a little bit about that, what worked, um, some of the best practices that worked for you guys is kind of setting up roles in the business. And I think you even talked about that you even used someone like a consultant or something to kind of help in that process.

Can you tell us a little bit more about that? Yeah, I didn't even quite realize that that's what we were doing when we worked with these consultants in New York. Um, But, well, originally we're like, okay, let's just like set some very distinct spheres. This is your sphere, this is my sphere, and let's be really clear about where they intersect and try to not have too much intersection. And, um, and that really works so well for us because our intersection is coming together and talking strategy. Like, that's— we love big picture talk, but I seriously will like lose my mind if I had talked to him about like shipping issues or something every day. I just Yeah, couldn't handle it. So, or anything logistical. Um, but, um, anyway, so then a few years later though, we were just actually looking at like, oh, I feel like we need some other people to weigh in just on the direction that we take the business. And so we met with these consultants in New York and they were fabulous in helping us really understand what, um, what we each did in the day-to-day and then what we should delegate, what we should keep, what we should hire someone for, what we should just let go of altogether. So really just defining those roles a little more. And I don't, looking back, I'm like, I don't know if we really needed consultants to do that. They helped us with other things too. But, um, but it was nice for us to get that definition there. But I would say even more than that, my, um, my husband's childhood best friend, he does Myers-Briggs.

Um, consultant.

He's a Myers-Briggs consultant.

Love Myers-Briggs.

I love that stuff. Oh my gosh. Like, he came in and did it for our whole team, and I feel like that was the number one best thing that we've ever done in our company in terms of, like, human resources, defining roles, like, just in terms of structuring our organization. It was just— it was life-changing. It really, really— his name is Mark McDonald.

Okay, we'll link him in the show notes. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, I'll send you a link because really being able to, um, to really understand my personal strengths and weaknesses and my husband's and our employees, so that not to say like, oh, they can't do this, or like to pigeonhole anybody, but to really just understand like, this is where this person is just going to be happiest. And this is like, in the things of my husband, like he's just always gonna need to have an assistant. Like, that's just bottom line. Yeah, he's not into the details. And so just like Just like cut the drama, get in the system and don't, don't worry about it. Like he, don't try to change him and make him into something that he's not.

What's his zone of genius? You know, how can we harness what he's really good at instead of fighting against?

Yeah. So 100%. And that's, I, I really felt like that test for us, um, was just so huge. And we'd done a few other ones too. I like that kind of stuff.

I think it's fun.

I, I like that.

It was fascinating. So what are you on Myers-Briggs? Do you remember what you are?

Oh yeah.

ENFJ.

You're ENFJ.

Okay. I'm close. I'm an ENTJ.

So, oh yeah. That's like, yeah, that's a different, that's like the one letter difference between me being a lawyer and not.

Yes. I'm not. Just, just lawyer instead of rap lady, you know? Yeah. Where maybe if I would have pursued more of my, my, my doula-ing, um, if I'd gone down my, my childbirth tunnel that I was really into instead of like, oh, or law school, I guess.

Yeah, that's cool. Oh man, I think it's powerful stuff though.

I love it. I do think it is, and I think it's, yeah, really smart in terms of just asking those really, um, good probing questions about are people doing what they're good at, where they're going to find fulfillment. Are we harnessing people's strengths? Are we, um, trying to match up for people's weaknesses and where there may be not? And again, like you said, not to pigeonhole, because like we all believe we're human beings complex that can grow and change. And it's not like, I'm not capable of handling this. Well, no, I don't, I don't really believe that. But, but there are also tendencies, and there are zones, and there are things that are gonna be an easier fight than others.

Yeah. And it's like, okay, this person, like, I would, I would be asking this person to become a different person for them to be happy in this other role, you know. It's just It's, yeah, it's just brought a lot of clarity for us. Yeah. And for me as a leader.

Yeah, for sure. So after, you know, I guess who was your first hire after yourself? Was Jared the first one who came on or did you have other help besides that start to help with like fulfillment or what was kind of your arc in terms of growing your business and getting help?

Jared was number one and then Courtney, she was my number two and she, I hired her right as I had my third baby. She is still with us doing all of our customer service. She was like, just to— yeah, talk about fairy godmothers. Like, she just came in and really, she just was able to wear any hat that I threw her and, um, was just all hands-on. And I think those first hires, you've really got to have people who don't get— don't get someone who's like a specialist in a certain area, you know. Don't get the expert, get the, get the like hustler that can do a lot of different things.

That's kind of a jack, you know, of all trades who knows how to, you know, who knows how to use, you know, YouTube videos for sure. Yeah, completely. Yeah, now that, that's really smart advice. Oh sure, yeah, I could figure that out. And they go hide in their office and they're like, I have no idea what that is. But Oh well, well, okay, guess I'm gonna learn.

Yeah, that's who you want. Yeah, favorite kind of person. Yes, exactly. So good. And later you're gonna, you're gonna want experts, you know, in different areas, but not then.

Not then. Not— that's not what you need then. So, um, well, and I wanted to talk about, you know, as I mentioned that you are a product-based business, but, um, you know, you've gotten awards and you've been able to reach out and I feel like build such an amazing community of people online who love your brand, who are obsessed with it, who participate in your Halloween contests and your travel contests and whatnot. Um, you know, how did you approach building such a strong brand identity, um, with a product? And, um, you know, can you tell us a little bit about that process and especially how it unfolds now that you have other people on your team, um, who have, you know, have to be, you know, uh, executing the same vision as you imagine?

Oh man, such a nice question. Um, I, I've always— wait, so I studied English literature and communications, but mostly journalism. Um, that was my emphasis in the communications field. And so storytelling is like, it's like, what else is there? Everything tells a story. So for me, the brand is just always tapping into what story we're telling and, um, being intentional about that. And I think that that is always I think that's what builds community, sharing stories, being vulnerable. And brands, brands can be vulnerable even with teams and looking at a collective body, can still have that. So even as we've grown, I think that we've been able to keep that because we've really, I really tried to identify what the brand was and is and will continue to be, the brand values and what we do for moms that we offer. And just really communicating that message, that story, over and over. And I think my favorite part about Sally Baby right now is that it started out where I was telling my story, and that was fun. I didn't even really— I didn't— I meant it to be— I meant to tell that story, but then at some point I was like, I don't really want to— I don't really want to keep telling my story. This— I don't know if I was just bored with it or, or what, but It's like, it's just so much more interesting to tell my— the customer story, you know? And, um, and that, that is what we do. And we just tell the stories of mothers. And I just, I'm in love with it. I just think it's so powerful and we need more and more of that. So I think that that is also, you know, a model that works really well with a team of employees too.

Yeah, well, I mean, that aligns so much. I love the, um, you know, the, uh, the StoryBrand, you know, expert. Um, what's his name? I forget who's got that, you know, the book and who consults on that. Yeah. Yes. You know what I'm talking about? Um, but he always talks about that, you know, you, a lot of people make the mistake that they get like the storytelling piece, but then they, um, insert themselves as the hero or the hero. And then he's like, no, you are not the hero. Your customer is the hero. You are the guide. You are the Yoda. You are not Luke. Luke Skywalker.

Um, yeah, exactly, exactly. That resonated so much for me. It was really validating too, because as I pulled my, like, face out of the brand a few years ago, because it really was— it was my personal Instagram before it was Sollybabies. It was— Instagram was just becoming a thing, whatever. So it just was inherently my story. It was my Instagram. And, and when I started to pull back from that everyone was like, what are you doing? This is insane. Why would you do that? This is like, you're an influencer in a brand. Why would you do that? And one, I didn't want to be an influencer in a brand, but also I was like, I just, I don't think that I need to be. I don't think, I think we're telling the, it's not me. It's this, it's what resonates in my story. It's about them still, even if they're hearing it in my story. And so let's just stop pretending like it's about me. And let's make it about them.

You know, there are obviously parts of you, and people still, you know, they still need to see your face and have that touch, and it's there. But yeah, you can't be, um, yeah, yeah, you have to be a little careful there about conflating it, the two, that like, I am my brand and my brand is me, and you know, it all has to be the same, or else you're not giving yourself enough wiggle room, um, yeah, to step back and have some space and to have help.

So be a human, and totally, yeah, totally human with human needs.

And like, hey, this human wants to go on vacation, but like we still need to sell some wraps. So how about that?

Yeah, exactly. Influencers, they deserve every dollar, man.

Yeah, that is— it is a hard gig. People who are like, I want to, you know, go and pick up some food and get paid as a food blogger, and I'm like, you— yeah, just, just you wait, Henry Higgins. Like, it is, um, there is— it is a lot of work that you're seeing behind. Yeah, it's, it's not just every person with the ring light who can do, you know, uh, who could do a tutorial.

Okay, exactly.

You can make it work. So, um, and well, awesome. And then, um, kind of the last thing that I wanted to talk about is something that's especially, I think, relevant in what you do, because as you mentioned, there were other wraps and baby wearing stuff in your space. And I'm sure now you've seen stuff, and now that you've been around for a few years, that have come after you. Um, how do you deal with copycats with inspiration and copying and, you know, um, just being in the mindset of that space? Um, because I think that's, that's a big block for a lot of people, um, is just being either worried about that, worried that they're going to rip other people off, or worried that they're going to get ripped off by people.

And how, how are they going to overcome that?

Yeah, um, for sure that's been an issue for me at different points in, in, uh, running Solibaby, but I, I'll just tell you where I am now with it. I just think it is the biggest waste of time, the biggest calorie burner, like Brand Story guy says, and, um, and the biggest energy suck. Like, I, I just can't— it really can affect your frame of mind so much and kill any inspiration that could come. And every time that I've had a fear of like, you know, this big corporate company that's like doing exactly what we're doing and clearly ripping us off or whatever, or little companies, whatever, I just think, oh my gosh, you know, there have been a few times I'm like, this is the end. They honestly just felt so like, like deeply afraid when you see these companies that have hundreds of millions of dollars at their disposal. It's just like Yeah, that's it. And then I wait for it, and I wait for it, and it never happens, ever. And I just think anytime that those feelings come up for me, I'm like, recognize that it's there and then put your head down and get to work. Like, I, I love the Shauna Nyquist quote where she says to use jealousy as like, or envy it's kind of just like a trigger for you of like, what do they— what are they doing that I want to be doing or that I should be doing or that I think they're doing better or whatever? Like, and use that again, like, look at it practically and logically and say, well, do we need to like focus on this more? And are we weak in this area? Should we strengthen this area? And if you are, then okay, let's take that as really good information. And move forward. But the— I think that it's really easy, especially on Instagram, to really, um, feel like it's such a small world, but it is, is just a growing, growing world. And babies are born every day.

There's, there's a lot, there's a lot of— there's a lot of the big market out there, guys, you know. And having that abundant mentality versus fear is— yeah, can go a huge, a long way.

Oh, it's everything. And it really can just kill any inspiration. I've had that happen to me, you know, several, many times over the years. And every time, like, dang it, it happened again. I don't— I— because I know there's— it's just not— it's not useful in any way. I feel like I've come a long, a long way with that. Not that I ever, like, acted vengefully or did anything. I didn't do anything except cry a few times. It's like, you're like, get upset, or Yeah, whatever. But, um, but now being able to work through that and process it faster when it comes up, because it's just so normal, you know, to have that. Um, it's— but to have it— to not have it hold me back from creating more and pushing more and doing what I want to do, um, is, is really freeing.

That's awesome. No, I, I really love that. I think that that's That's perfect advice, you know, and I love that, you mean, as you talked about, you guys did stuff to protect your brand so that it would be set up for success, but then you didn't, you know, worry about stuff so much and you were looking forward and moving forward and that was, you know, way more important than what people are doing in your dust.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, I totally agree. That also reminds me though of, we did have, we'll get sometimes copycat brands on, like out of Asia or different areas that they'll pop up on Amazon. And they were using our photos, like a photo of me and my baby and my husband and our baby. Shameless. I have to say, it was like hilarious, except that they really were selling a lot of product based on our photos.

Yeah. And that, that, guys, we can, we can stop, you know, that you can stop.

Yeah, we've had a few, a few things like that. We had infringement of our, of our website from a competitor that like bought a similar website and that was illegal.

They were trying to fish and stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, things like that. So they're, they're— when it's crossing the line, like it— but even then though, it's like, don't give into the drama of it. I've used that a lot in this call—

sorry, this podcast.

But no, I think that that's, that's, that's really smart, is to, um, just—

so there's such a tendency to ruminate and—

yeah, and it could just, it can drag you down. Yeah. And it's just it's not worth it, right?

And but if there's legal action to take and it's worth taking, you know, like, no, this is actually like deceitful to customers and they're not buying this product that they think they're gonna buy and they're using our imagery that also this whole creative team has worked or our whole packaging design that our designer has worked on, you know, it's like then take those steps, um, to informate bit even than before.

Yeah, sorry, you're just cutting out. Just so— yeah, you can protect your customers.

Yeah, I'm sorry.

Exactly.

Yeah, and it's totally worth it. No, um, well, that's awesome. Well, okay, just to, to wrap up, I have, um, a couple rapid-fire questions that, um, I wanted to save for you. Okay, um, so what's, uh, you know, when someone comes to you and is like, hey, I'm building a business, what's a business book you recommend recommend?

What's your favorite go-to? Um, Lean Brand.

Lean Brand. Oh, that's a good one. Okay. Um, what's a product under $50 that's been a game changer for you?

Oh, um, well, I'm really into sweatpants right now.

Yes, a girl after my own heart.

And Costco has this feeler sweatsuit. I'm not kidding. My friend got it for me in 2 colors because I love it.

2 colors.

I think it's under— I think it's under $50.

That's true love. There you go. Costco, guys. That's where all the fancy brand, you know, baby influencer lifestyle brands— that's where they all get their, their clothes.

So that's how you know.

Um, favorite drink?

I am an influencer. Yeah, there it is. Favorite drink? Yes. Um, oh man, I'm so boring right now because I stopped drinking soda. Yeah, water. Oh, that's so lame, but it really is. It's all I'm drinking right now.

Oh, water is good for you. So yeah, I know, I'm on a no sugar thing for a couple weeks too, and so yeah, it's been water for me too. But it's tough. I miss you, sugar. I'll be back. I'll be back around.

But just missed your Diet Coke.

Yeah, uh, you see, that's— yeah, that's your— when you're on, it's Diet Coke. That's, that's the mistress.

Yeah.

It is, yes. Um, and then what do you like listening to, podcast or audiobook?

Oh, um, oh, you know what I'm listening to right now is, um, Becoming by Michelle Obama. It's been really interesting. Yeah, I'm like halfway through and it's been super interesting. Super interesting. Okay, I love all kinds of podcasts. Yeah, I love Life Coach School. Love Life Coach School.

Okay.

And tell us, tell us about your, your involvement with Life Coach School.

Well, I am a life coach. Yes. And I will finish my certification. It's funny because it's an unregulated industry. So like anybody could say that, but my certification is done through the Life Coach School. Um, that'll be, I'll be an actual certified through the Life Coach School in March and, um, end of March. I've loved it. I just really wanted the tools for myself. I got obsessed with Jodi Moore's podcast, Better Than Happy, and then I joined her program.

I love Jodi.

I love Brooke Castillo.

I think they're both fabulous. Yes. So then I got into Brooke Castillo, who founded the Life Coach School, and I was like, you know what, I just want these tools for myself. They've been so life-changing. I just want them really ingrained in me. And so, and so I wanted to go through the process. And then also I really like it because I have I do have a lot of women specifically come to me and want advice for building a business or just like life in general. And I really, really like having tools that I know will make an impact. And, um, and so then I just started coaching and I'm like, who knows where it'll go? I'm really enjoying it though.

No, that's awesome. Okay, well that was my last question. What's a hobby that you're digging right now? And I mean, I'd say life coaching is, is more than a hobby, um, because, you know, it can be like a serious endeavor and there's people making serious money and helping a lot of people. Um, but that's amazing. Is there anything else that you are— that you're digging this year or that you're trying to get into this year?

Um, I am— no, really, like, if I have extra time, I am listening to stuff on, yeah, like self-help coaching, that kind of thing.

I love it. That's your jam.

So Well, that's awesome. Well, you can tell because you're such an informed, intentional, grounded person, and I think that comes out in, in your, in your work and how you mother, um, and your beautiful thoughts on there. Um, so tell people where they can find you. I'm sure, you know, if, if they're smart, then they're already following you online, um, obviously following your brand, but also just following you because I think you, you're such an amazing writer. You can tell that you have some training and background there because I love the thoughts that you share about motherhood. I, I just think they're, they're really beautiful.

Oh, that's so kind of you. Um, I— yeah, my personal Instagram is @ellerowley, so it's just E-L-L-E-R-O-W-L-E-Y, so you can find me there. I think that's the only place you can find me besides Solid Baby Wrap. Besides Solid Baby Wrap. But, um, yeah, you— this is— you ask really good questions. Thank you. This is so fun. I appreciate you having me on.

Of course. Yeah, thanks so much for joining us, Elle. Um, and I know, yeah, people are going to love listening to this and connecting with you and, you know, following as you're, you know, developing all your gifts and helping more people and, um, helping them wear their babies, build their businesses, and be better mamas and all the stuff in between.

You're so sweet. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Isn't Elle just incredible? I mean, if you haven't had the pleasure of following her brand, or, you know, whether you're a parent or not and are familiar with her work and her, her beautiful products and whatnot in your life, she is just this incredible human being, and I love her energy and her spirit. And so this is a follow-up to this episode. I got the chance to hear from her during Alt Summit. She kind of gave a workshop-style class that was a little bit like smaller but still a huge hit and just kind worked through some of just the myths that bog us down, especially as you're trying to balance things with being a parent and being an entrepreneur and what that looks like, especially when, you know, boundaries in your work schedule and things get messy and you're trying to balance and truly, you know, be introspective about what you want to do and what you want to accomplish and what your ideal day looks like and what value you're bringing to the work that you're doing and how that's serving other people. And just really digging into all these issues. I think Elle's got tremendous wisdom and insight there. So, um, if you're not following her, please do. Um, and, you know, she even shared with us some, some of her writing and some of her thoughts and kind of lists, um, that she says is kind of the beginning of a book that she's working on. And so my hope here is that if we keep bugging her enough on it, that she, she's gonna get that book out. You know, she's like, where, when you gonna lay that magnum on us? Okay. Um, sorry for the, you know, flagrant Zoolander reference, but, um, it is me, guys, and you, you know what I like. So, um, so that's that for this episode. Um, if you are new here, or if you're not, but if you have not taken advantage and gotten, um, any of my free resources that I'm offering to help you build and figure out the back end, the business end of your creative empire, entrepreneurship endeavor, whatever that looks like, um, please let me help you. Okay, let's— let me give you some stuff for free that will get you going, that will give you some help and direction and save you from the Google legal doom nightmare that you might have found yourself in if you're trying to figure out how you get your business legit. Okay, the first tool I want to offer, a resource, is my legal checklist. Okay, this is my one-page, really great power handout that walks you through— these are the major decisions and task lists of things that you need to do to start working through and getting legit, okay? And it goes by section by section. These are the most common things. This is when I consult with clients on the phone, this is what we work through, okay, is this checklist. And I'm giving it to you for free, not charging you any of those scary lawyer fees for it, okay? And you can get this at brittanyratel.com/checklist. Okay, I'll have links with the show notes. Um, the next thing is that I also have a freebie, um, upgrade that goes with this episode, okay, that will give, um, that will list some of the favorite quotes and some of the takeaways that Elle gave, especially some of the resources she had about working out roles in between your spouse and some ways you can help your organization. And she gave such so many great tips in this episode that I want to make sure that you have all of that. So if you are listening on on the go, which I know we all want to do because we're busy, busy people. I myself am a frequent podcast junkie, or, you know, while I'm outside watching my kids, you know, nip old people's ankles in our cul-de-sac— that's one of their favorite pastimes, obviously—

and so I'm—

I can't take notes then. Um, so I love when people provide, um, good and useful handouts for their episodes. Um, and this is one of those times that I'm gonna have that. So that's going to be available at brittanyratel.com/44. Okay, my episode handouts always correspond and are on my episode pages. So if you're ever back and looking at one of the episodes, sometimes I forget to mention them in the episode and you're like, hmm, I wonder if there's a freebie that came with this. Check the show notes and/or check on the show note page, okay, which will always be brittanyratel.com/ and the episode number. Okay. Otherwise, thanks so much guys for being here and for listening and tuning in and taking time out of your busy day. I know you guys got empires to build, and my makers and my artists and my creatives, you've got stuff to create for clients, for yourself, for your process, um, for maybe your own hobby and personal development. Maybe you're still in just the creative stages and you're enjoying this work and trying to decide if you want to turn this into a business into some way that you can support yourself and your family. Or maybe you're gung-ho in one of these areas, or you're, uh, you run an e-commerce shop, or you're a graphic designer, or you're a florist, or you bake cakes, or you sell stock photography, or, you know, one of many of the other hundreds of other cool and creative ways that you found to turn your talent and your skill into, uh, into money and into a way to support yourself and to share and enrich the world and make this a more beautiful, vibrant place. We're so grateful for you, and I'm really grateful to have you here and being part of my community. Make sure you follow me on Instagram and that you're, you know, interacting and stuff with my posts. I know sometimes I post a lot of text because I'm trying to give you guys free tips, and sometimes, you know, Instagram is not a huge fan of that because they think that I'm posting boring stuff. How dare they think that legal tips or boring. Um, so make sure you guys are following and, you know, commenting, and especially on podcast episodes. If you— if there's stuff that you liked, I want to hear about it. If you have more questions and you want more follow-up about what I'm talking about, I want to hear about it. If there's other people in that you know of, other entrepreneurs, um, that you would love to see and hear their business story and ask and hear me ask some questions and get a little bit behind the curtain, I want to hear about it, you know, and I'll, I'll try to get them, guys. I will chase them down, okay?

Um, so make sure you're interacting and sharing and hanging with me on Instagram.

You know, that's my jam, and I'm like Ariel. I want to be where my people are, and my people are on the gram, okay? Thanks so much for tuning in. I will see you next week, and if you have not subscribed or left a rating, let's go ahead and do that, okay? Okay, I'm finished with all my homework, especially since school is almost out for summer and it's time for all of us to forget and throw away all those, all those to-dos, right? And just party at the lake and on the water all summer, right? I mean, that's, that's certainly going to pay our bills. So just kidding. So, so thoughts and prayers to you, depending on what edge of the spectrum you are about how excited you are for summertime, whether that's party time in the USA, Miley Cyrus style, or whether you feel like the Jaws theme is about to rear its ugly head on you. So either way, sending you all good vibes. Let's take a deep breath and remember what's important to us, and that, you know, we are nuanced, beautiful human beings, and that we can, we can handle it, okay? We can figure this stuff out. So thanks for being here, and remember that you are a real business owner, so you should own your business in every sense of the word.