Growing a Successful Creative Business with Shea Mcgee of Studio Mcgee

This is Law and Wit Episode 27, Growing a Successful Creative Small Business with Shane McGee of Studio McGee. Welcome to Law and Wit, Creative Counsel for Entrepreneurs. I'm your host, Brittany Rettell, mother of 4, entrepreneur, naptime lawyer, and attorney for creative entrepreneurs. I'm here to share inspiration and action so that you can tackle your business blocks and confidently own your business in every sense of the word. Thank you so much for being here.

Hi guys, and welcome back. I am so excited to share our guest today. Um, we have Shea McGee on, and, um, if you don't know, Shea is a super talented girl. She's got tons of things going on. She started out in PR, which is actually where I know her from. I know her from our college days in the setting public relations, um, out of the old BYU. And now, um, she's opened up an interior design business, and she and her husband Sid now open and run two successful companies. Um, they run Studio McGee, which is a full-scale interior design firm, and McGee and Company, which is McGee and Co., which is their own shop where they sell their own products. And if you haven't come across any of their work, you're going to love it and you're going to want to fill up your feed with all of their beautiful images and all the things that they're doing around the country to make people's spaces more beautiful. So thanks so much for coming on, Shea. Thank you.

Thanks for having me. It's been— I don't even want to say how long it's been. A really long time.

Not to date us, but yeah.

But a really long time.

But we're, uh, you know, it's, it's so fun. And I, I mean, it's one of the really nice things about online communities, about Instagram, is that you get to connect with people, um, who you would be really hard to otherwise. And that's one of the really fun things that I've gotten to watch just from afar, is seeing, um, Shay's business and everything grow, and you finding, uh, finding your voice and your passion in this area and developing it, and now turning into a really successful company, um, with your partner and and lover there, Syd. So yeah, just really excited to come on here and have some of your wisdom. So why don't you tell everyone, to kind of get started, part of your origin story? You know, if you were an Avenger character, how would we start your story?

Well, my story started— I always think that my story starts in college because I kind of fumbled around. I thought that I always loved interior design, but BYU didn't have a program. And also I brushed it off because I can't draw. I am not an artist that way. And so I can write. And so I went into public relations and I really liked the schooling aspect of it. But when I went out into the real world, I found that it was not for me. I had a really hard time pushing products that I didn't believe in. And so Fast forward a little bit of time, I go back to school just at a community college. I take classes and Sid and I were, we were renovating our very, we had bought our first home. It was a fixer-upper in Orange County and we were making over each space. And of course that leads to neighbors kind of checking in and see what is, see what the commotion is. And then I Got my first client, and a client is a loose term. I mean, it was a lot of me like consulting and just saying, yes, I think that's a good idea. No, I don't think that's a good idea. And, or a lot of times I was just kind of being told what to do because people didn't trust my opinion at the time, and probably rightly so because I didn't have lots of experience. So I— But you had to go to the—

And you've had a good eye forever. I mean, you've been super cute, fashionable. I mean, didn't you sell headbands even in college? I remember, didn't you have—

Yes, when the big handmade hairpiece movement was going on, I had a business and I used my PR skills to kind of get that out there. And we had a little online shop. I had that with my mom and it actually did pretty well, but it was not something, it was one of those things where I thought it would be fun and then it wasn't really as fun as I thought it would be. And then I cut, so yeah, again, and then it was like, I thought I was gonna just do wedding, just like, oh, be a wedding planner. I went through several different fields to finally land on what I feel like is my true calling because I just can't get enough of it. So I have this business, it's going well, and then my husband and I decided to go into business together, but we kind of felt like if we were going to do this, we had to, make it a really big, a big thing. We weren't just, we were going to go all in. So we actually decided to sell our home. We were lucky because we bought our home as a short sale. And so we had renovated it and then we were able to take the money that we made from it and use that to start our business. But in California, obviously everything's really expensive. So we decided to move to Utah so that our money would go a lot farther. We'd be able to grow more quickly. So here we are 4 years later after starting Studio McGee, and now we have 2 businesses and a team of about 45, probably 50 by the end of probably the month. So yeah, it's growing very quickly.

Yeah, I mean, that's, that's an understatement, you know, not to paint with a broad brushstroke here, but I mean, that's just incredible in 4 years to be managing that kind of a team. And, but you, like you said, you guys knew yourself and that you wanted to go all in and that knew that you had to be strategic with your resources and your timing. But you really just, you know, jumped, you know, jumped for it. I mean, what was, what was that like in talking with each other and then talking to other people? I mean, did people just think you were crazy to sell your beautiful home in California?

Yeah. Everyone thought we were crazy. And the other thing too is like, now I tell it as part of our story and it seems like a one-line, piece of the story where we sold our home and we moved to California and we used that money to start our business. And it seems so easy, but it took us a lot to get there. I actually begged Sid for quite some time to join me in my business, and he was helping me kind of on the side and at night he would help, but Going into business together is like, it's a really big commitment to someone you're already very committed to. And so, and then of course the idea to sell our home, and that was not an easy decision. We had this beautiful home, we lived in a great neighborhood. It's been a big sacrifice. I will not say that it has been easy. We downsized and we've sacrificed a lot, but the reward. Like, I mean, we've obviously seen the return on our investment, but it was— it's not— it wasn't something that— a decision to take lightly. And my parents, they were offering our basement, their basement, just in case it didn't work out. And, you know, people just were like, oh, that's cute. That's kind of how they treated us. So yeah, it wasn't easy.

Yeah, not an easy thing. And I think that you, you pinned it perfectly that it seems like such an easy line in the story when you're on in hindsight, you know, and you get to look back and you know how it ended up that it all worked out. But when you're in that moment of trying to make those huge decisions and are we really going to commit everything to this business, are we going to jump in this together and have that risk of having a married partner business, it's, I'm sure, just overwhelming and frightening and yeah, yeah, doing all the things. So, Well, that's awesome that you guys had that clarity and we're on both on the same page in terms of what you guys bring to your business. So tell me what it looked like when you first had Syd join you. I know that you, you know, obviously had more of the design eye and that was your gifts and your passion and you would kind of started developing your look and your voice. But what did it look like now blending that with someone else? Yeah.

So I had, I, at the, my first hire was actually an assistant and that was when it was just me. So I had an assistant and she helped me with, you know, styling and kind of running errands and, and getting rooms installed. And when, but I would spend so much of my time ordering and billing clients and creating invoices. And then I'd have, you know, 20% of my day was designing. And so that was the first thing that we did was get a lot of the operational things off of my plate. And then of course, I say I'm like a high-functioning creative where I can write and I'm like, kind of organized, but it's not something that I'm really interested in is like the operational side. So Sid came in and my files were disorganized and I was doing things that, you know, I was taking 10 steps to do something that maybe could have taken 5 steps and Sid would say, why are you doing it this way? And I'm like, this is just how we do it. And he would look at it and say, well, it doesn't need to be done this way. So let's, streamline this. And so he really started kind of just sifting through all steps of the process and making things more efficient. Where that to me has been probably the biggest impact on growth is being able to look at things and assess how they can be more efficient, because I would just be following that same 10-step process. So, right, which makes sense.

I mean, we all get used to doing things a certain way, and, and certainly, um, you know, from a design perspective, a lot of fields, I think especially in the creative field, a lot of jobs and processes lend themselves to being— they take a lot of time, and people are used to kind of being more analog and free-flowing. And I think we, we equate that with the creative process, which we don't want to have too many barriers and strictures on. And yet there's there is a fair amount of stuff in there that, that can be systematized and that should be. And, you know, it was probably a strength to have someone like Sid who had no experience in design, so he didn't have any preconceived notions of how this business was supposed to run.

Yeah, I mean, he would just be like, this is crazy, like, why are you doing this? And I'm like, this is just the way interior designers do it. And but it didn't need to be done that way. And so he was able to take kind of like the new business process, and then obviously ordering and invoicing and billing, those, those were the first So that was the first step. And then we hired our first two designers. That's where we started was the first two designers. And then from there it was someone to help on operations and ordering. And so, yeah, I would say that taking that leap to hire your first full-time designer couple of people is really scary because you just see like there's only this much money coming in the door. Are they going to help us improve our business enough to be able to then cover their salaries? And so it is, it is, it feels really risky. So we didn't pay ourselves at first to be able to afford to hire people. Yeah, in terms of looking at it.

And how did you know that that's what you needed in terms of your first full-time people? Were you guys keeping track of your time, or were you, you know, trying to be introspective? How did you know what was the most important thing for you to be for your first full-time hires?

Because we had client— more client inquiries than we could handle, and I was the one that was maxed out on— I needed someone to help. I was getting bogged down in, like, answering all of the client emails and again, more operational things. And so we knew that the designers could come in and then they could like manage the project. So they could handle the communication and then they could do the drawings. But then I would be, I think a lot of growing your business, especially a small business, a creative one, is like being very honest with yourself about what your strengths are. And then like once you identify like this is what I'm really good at, then you start delegating those other things because the business is based around found that one strength. And so I've got to— I have to maintain that time to be able to put that strength into the business. Yeah, I, I love that.

I think that, that you, you nailed it right there, that you, um, you have to be really thoughtful and, you know, uh, authentic and honest with yourself about what your zone of genius is and what you're great at and what things you have to let go of, even maybe things that you like and you're still good at, but it's not the best thing. It's not the best use of your time. Yes, 100%.

Yeah, I like zone of genius. That's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because I mean, because we all like that. We're like, oh yes, I do have a zone of genius. And it's okay to admit that there are things in that bubble and there are things that are not.

And, um, one zone of genius and then the rest of it's kind of a mess. So that's— it's really great to have a team. Exactly, exactly.

So, and that's, that's really smart. So when you started, um, hiring on your first designers What were you looking for? Because, you know, especially in your business, in your industry, you guys being on the same page in terms of style and having that really consistent brand look and feel visually, how did you go about hiring the right people who were gonna be able to execute and be on the same page with you?

So of course, when you're first starting, you can afford people straight out of college. That's kind of what you can afford. So we put out, I mean, I had an Instagram following enough to be able to put something out that we were hiring. And so I did that and we got some applicants and I would look for potential as far as like their selection. So like they'd send me a design board and I'd say like, I can work with that. Like I see that they are, they get, they have like good taste. Maybe it's not put together in the exact same way that I would, but I can see that they naturally have good taste. And then I would look, then we'd of course look at their communication skills, written and verbal. How were they easy to just communicate with in the interview process? Have they had an internship or two to give them experience to even just have been in a professional work environment before? So very, I mean, and then, you know, that's where we started. So we got really lucky that we made two really good hires. Out of the gate. I feel very lucky that we made those decisions and that they worked their tails off, um, so that we would all just kind of— we were all in it together. We were all kind of doing a little bit of everything. And then from there, you know, you just, you add more people in and then, um, that you get your processes down. It's all about processes. Gotcha.

So no, but I really like the, um, what you talked about. And I mean, this is for, for all of you who might be interested in working for someone like Shea or for a company like that. I mean, there's a recipe to getting a good gig, you know, at a really exciting firm is making sure that you, that you're honing your own skills, but also that you're teachable, that you are working on your communication style and that you are open to learning and working well with others because, you know, especially in a project-based business, there's no other way to be successful.

For sure. And I think it's been really neat to watch them grow. Sure, they were just out of college, but they put in the work and they learned and they grew and they had the opportunity to work right under the people that own the company. And so now they, you know, one of them manages our design team and has had a lot of opportunities. And I think that, I think that that's been really cool to watch. So take advantage of those opportunities. For sure. Definitely.

And in that respect, how have you decided to grow as you've been more in that now management role? You know, you and Sid, have you guys tried to find, you know, mentors or other resources in terms of how do you manage a team and how do you keep, you know, having open communication and good feedback so that everyone's on the same page?

Yeah, communication's hard as you grow quickly. I mean, communication's hard in general, but communication gets really hard when you grow quickly. And this is something that we're always trying to— I think that those, like, we will have like touch base face meetings where we pull someone in and we say, hey, how's it going? It's— this isn't your quarterly review. This is just like, how's it going? What's working? What's not working? And then you have to then say, okay, well, these are things not working. What's— you can't do everything all at once. You can't make every change that every single person suggests, but we need to take the information in and then make decisions on where to improve and also be open to the feedback of where to improve. Because as you manage more people, you're not in it with every single team. And so you really need to take that feedback and rely on managers to be communicating like, this isn't working for my team right now, because I wouldn't know because I'm not in that team. And so taking that feedback is really, really important. And yeah, there are even like, there are business coaches and things like that that It's great to kind of get out of, you know, you're in it so much, you're like, Sid and I are talking about it all the time, but sometimes it's nice to have an outside, an outside person.

Yeah, to be able to get it, you know, for the same reason that we talked about earlier, that they don't have any preconceived notions of what it needs to look like.

Exactly.

And so they can have those fresh eyes that seem to be so important, you know, which is exactly what you do when you walk into an old house that needs to be updated, you know, you're the fresh eyes. We talked about kind of some of the growing pains as your business has kind of moved along. So, you know, I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be doing my fans, you know, I'd be doing them a disservice if I didn't mention how did legal get involved in kind of the operations and growing part of your business? For sure.

I wish that we had hired legal earlier. That is, I don't have many regrets in our business because I think you learn from everything, but that is one thing that I wish that we had known to hire from the beginning, even if it was maybe a little bit expensive. So, I, in design school, they gave us a contract. They gave us like, the teacher, she ran a small business and she was, this is what my contract looks like. And we literally took that from school and adjusted it a little bit to be the contract for that. It was, we thought was a good fit for us. And we did not review that with an outside attorney or anything. And it did not, it wasn't extensive enough. It was kind of just boilerplate. So I would say that 2 years into things, we hired a lawyer to develop multiple contracts. So then of course we just thought that we would hire him for just this thing and then we kind of fell in love with working it with a lawyer because it just makes you feel very confident and safe in a lot of your decisions. And so we, once we did that, now we probably, I mean, Sid's probably on the phone with him every other day. So we do that. We make sure that he reviews everything. Awesome. Yeah.

So yeah.

And I did not put Shay up to that.

No, I, I really, no one's putting me up to that. It is the truth. I wish that we would've hired someone earlier and, um, we now are really grateful that we have him on our side. Yeah.

But I mean, you guys were, I mean, it's, it's a really common tale that, I mean, and you guys did a great thing in having, just having a contract. I mean, honestly, there's a lot of people who get started who don't even have that set forth as something to start with. Um, And I, you know, when people come in and we have that talk and sometimes I'm the first attorney that they've ever spoken to, you know, I never get mad and I don't judge. And that's, that's not my role is to, you know, slap your wrist and say, no, no, how dare you start your business? Because we all just need to start our business and start making money. I get that. And we should have that forward momentum. But I think that that's like you said, it was just, it was, it was a great day when you could recognize that you needed more, that you needed a contract that served you and your clients and the kind of, you know, real-world projects and problems that you were probably having in your work. Flow.

You know what's interesting? I find that a lot of people that we want to work with in maybe a contract capacity, like a creative, they won't have a contract. So I say we won't— like, we can't start working together until we have a contract. So we'll say, here's a contract that we can provide you to work with us. That's great. But it's It's shocking to me how many creatives we try to work with that don't have one, and we won't proceed forward with work until there is a contract in place. And it's, it's not a negative thing. It's just, it protects everybody. It doesn't just protect one side. It protects everyone. So exactly, exactly.

It gets, um, it clarifies expectations and it makes you do the hard work that's hard and sometimes awkward sometimes of saying, what does this relationship really need to look like? What are the boundaries? You know, what are the milestones, who's doing what, and let's talk about what may happen if something goes wrong, which none of us like to think about, but life happens. People get sick, jobs get canceled, product doesn't arrive when it's supposed to, um, servers go down. Life happens. And when the internet gets shut out, I mean, you know, stuff happens, and we need to talk about what, what the plan is for when it does. So yeah, yeah, exactly. So, well, that's awesome. I'm glad you guys found someone that, that you're working with and that, um, is a good fit for you. And that, that's we hope for all of you creatives out there is that you, um, you feel like you can have someone that you kind of trust in your business, you know, to help it grow and scale, um, as, as it, you know, as it should and as we hope it does.

So, and move forward.

Um, so talk to me a little bit about kind of your content creation. You guys are on YouTube and you're creating kind of videos along with obviously having a really strong presence on Instagram. Um, tell me a little bit about kind of how YouTube and videos have played a role in your brand.

So obviously Instagram is where it started and it's still where like the majority of our followers are. But Sid and I have always been a little bit paranoid about being too reliant on like one single platform. And so we knew we needed to diversify. And I think early on we saw that video was kind of where things were going. And we also, we also saw that our business is very creative. Businesses are very visual. And so it's really natural. Video and photos, it's an easy marketing play for us because we're not having to think about how to make what we do look good. It already is something that's pretty. And that's what people want to see in videos. And so we, maybe like a year or two ago, we hired a contract videographer to make a couple videos for us. It was going so well that we needed more and more and more videos. So we actually hired somebody in-house. So we have a full-time videographer that works for us. And so, I mean, she helps us create all videos. So everything from how-to videos to just, you know, marketing and our webisodes that we do. And YouTube's great. It's a very different audience than Instagram. And it's a much— it's slower growing. It's kind of a quantity over quality platform, interesting enough. You just have to keep putting out videos to get followers or subscribers. And it's been good. It's continuing to chug along. And now that Instagram has launched their IGTV, we're trying to kind of just figure out what the difference is between what people want in each place, because you don't want to just put out the same content on every single platform that you're on. Right.

But you also don't want to invent the wheel, you know, if you don't have to, and be smart about— you're already creating stuff, how can we repurpose, you know, and be strategic in, in our messaging and the content that we're sharing?

Yeah.

Yes.

And I think that videos, videos have— once you have that footage, you can reuse it in different ways. And so we're kind of experimenting with that. No, that's awesome.

I like that.

Yeah, you're approaching it with curious eyes and not overwhelmed of not another thing that we have to do, even though we all sometimes feel that way. You know, every time there's an algorithm shift or there's a new platform, which, you know, we know there will be, that's just the nature of the world we live in, which is exciting. But I think it's, yeah, you, you really honed it down and having a good attitude about it of what do people want to, what's connecting with their audience and how are they getting value out of what we're providing. And when we're asking those questions, we're going to have good answers.

Yeah, for sure.

So, um, I, I was listening to another interview, um, that you and Sid were doing, and he talked about on kind of your initial Instagram strategy of how you guys would kind of purposely select and put products in, um, houses that you knew would not have as higher margins, that you guys would kind of be taking a hit, but you knew would create, um, better content. Kind of walk me through that decision, you know, why did you guys think that that was worth it?

Yeah. Yeah, so we would, we would, so in the interior design world, furniture budgets, you designers make a, they buy the product for wholesale and then they can mark up the product and sell it for retail. And we decided that we would mark things up less so we could get more into the budget so that our projects would look better.

Um, so that's a win for those clients, whoever got to be on that side.

But I'd say that, uh, yeah, so very— we did that with a couple of projects that we could get them under our belt. It's all about building your portfolio in the beginning, right? So you just need something to prove to people that I can do this. And we needed those couple of projects to show what we were capable of. And sometimes if you're restricted by budget, it doesn't allow you to show what you're capable of entirely. And so we, we tried to stretch the budget as far as much as we could by doing that. Well, that's, that's really smart.

So, um, and I think it was a— it sounded like it was a good, uh, you know, long-term planning for you guys, you know, trading some of those rewards where, you know, we all need to make money and businesses need to be profitable, but also have an eye towards where do you want to go and not setting yourselves limiting yourselves too much in terms of what you think you could do.

Yeah, I think that there, you know, you'll, if you start making, if you start a business and it's profitable, it's really tempting to just be like, oh my gosh, our business is making this much money, look how much money I'm making. But if you have a longer view of reinvesting that money back into the business and You know, then you start doing paid advertisements or you start working with influencers and sending them products or you make another hire that's going to really add to your business. You're just in the trenches for those first couple of years making those sacrifices that will pay dividends. That's, yeah, that's really smart.

I think that's a good distinction to make is to not equate, yeah, with the business being profitable with, um, Yeah, that's my personal salary that I should be taking out, you know, is to, to keep some resources there and keep developing and see what you can do to try to grow and scale and to be smart about it, even if it means waiting and waiting, you know, when, when you're doing well and things are going well.

Right. And that's not to say you don't take anything out. I just think you just need to be maybe tempered in doing it. Yeah.

And to have that, that, that temperance.

No, I think that's really smart. So, um, well, tell me a little bit about—

you guys opened your, uh, your store in California, a brick-and-mortar store. So tell me about that experience. It looks beautiful. So the next time I have an excuse to be in California, I, I really want to go. It's great.

So we weren't really looking to open a store, um, but we— the, the lady that had the previous shop had reached out and said, I think you'd be a great fit for the neighborhood, you know, um, How about you sign a lease for a year and test out the market? Well, in commercial spaces, you never get to try things out for a year.

Hold on, your audio got— hold on, your audio got way pixelated.

Hold on just a second. I don't want to lose the story.

I mean, of course, we always had that in mind as a goal, but it wasn't right at this time. But the previous shop owner— and it's close to Mesa, it's right in the Newport Beach area— she reached out I had been in the shop, her shop previously, and we were following each other on Instagram and she said, you know, would you ever think about moving into the neighborhood and opening up shop here? I'll let you do a lease for a year, which is very unusual because usually commercial spaces are longer. And so we thought it would be a really good opportunity to test doing a retail store. It's a very, very small shop, and so it was kind of perfect because everything was on a smaller scale of just testing out how to do this. And for Sid and I, we also don't intend to just open up one store. We would love to open up multiple. And so this is a great testing ground for doing something remotely to see how we get processes in place to be able to manage other stores throughout the country. And so it has been a wild ride just trying to build out this shop really quickly and then, you know, handle things long distance. But the— we hired great people. Of course, it always comes down to hiring good people. We hired great people and they are doing a wonderful job of running the shop, but I am having to go back and forth quite a bit. We're still trying to figure out how the process of like the creative thing, like styling the store, works long distance. Gotcha.

Yeah, I'm sure there's some curiosity there and give and take and trying things out of like, do you have a brand guide or do you just hold up and FaceTime around the store and say—

We have a book, but we also, the FaceTime thing is also important too. You know, see things in real time and Yeah, I— one thing I love about the shop is that you can just feel what our brand— it's— you get the feeling of our brand instead of just seeing it in pictures. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that, that makes sense.

So, um, and you know, it's, uh, it is so important when you— so much of what you do in the, the genius, your zone of genius that you bring to things, is the layering of different textures. It's the great job you do of mixing metals and And that's, you know, what you do. A lot of your how-tos are on— are talking about people about that and how you can layer in, you know, different patterns and how to pattern mix correctly, you know, not in the bad '90s way but in a good way. Exactly. Exactly. So I think that's really smart. And yeah, for you to be, you know, still curious but keeping your touch on that space so that it does really reflect you and your brand. So now, as you've moved now from having you sell your products online now and in this store. How is it having— managing that business, you know, that totally separate business? Because I mean, you run basically your own, you know, successful e-commerce and now physical commerce site.

Yeah, yeah.

So the e-commerce, um, is— that's a— that's the largest of all the businesses. And so the shop really kind of goes hands in hands with it because we already have so much inventory for our e-commerce business that then just— we allocate inventory to the shop. And so yes, of course there's the management, like especially doing it long distances, we're just having, we've had to kind of figure out, you know, oh, we do the call once a week and we do the FaceTime and just check-ins and things like that. But yeah, it has really, I think it would be, it would have been much harder if we didn't have the e-commerce business already going. I think that we would have been like feeling, feeling it. We would be sweating just trying to kind of, you know, figure out like how to, you know, name all the products. We already had all the pricing, we already had all our vendors, so we weren't, we weren't thinking, we weren't starting from scratch. Yeah, you guys had a good leg up in that.

So, and where do you see yourself? I mean, you know, there's a lot of places to buy furniture and home goods online, you know. I mean, we all know that, you know, we— there's lots of options out there. So when you guys were trying to initially launch that side of your business and position yourself, what did you see, how were you going to distinguish yourself, or what was kind of your marketing plan and strategy there?

Yeah, well, I've, I've always seen that our aesthetic differentiates us, our look, and people are coming to us for that look, for our taste and the things that we select. And you can go on to sites and they carry 10,000 Dining chairs, and some people don't— many people don't want to look— they want someone with good taste, someone with a design eye to narrow the options for them. And then also for us, we do a lot of exclusive products, and we're doing more and more exclusive products, so then you can't get those anywhere else. And so that's, that's kind of where I see us always, is we are— it's by— it's a shop that's by designers for people who love design. And that is what we're all about.

Yeah, you know, curated, you know, and we're rolling our eyes, you know, because that's an overused term nowadays, but yours actually is, you know, that you're trying to be very thoughtful in the items that you select and that they make sure they're part of the aesthetic that supports your whole brand, you know, your brand image and visual.

So very cool.

And how have you liked that process in terms of designing your own products and sourcing, you know, everything from fabric to where things are going to be made.

Yeah, that's, um, that is a lot of work. It's really great, it's really gratifying to see products come to life, something that you had in your head that then, you know, a couple of people have input and we do, you know, mood boards and then we had drawings and then we get samples and then we edit those samples and then we send them back and then we do it again and then we get the prototype and And then it's, you gotta photograph it and market it and then launch it. The whole process is so long. That's the other thing too, is like, I'm so impatient and I just like, I have something in my head and then I wanna see it in front of me right away.

Why don't we have a pink velvet pillow now? I needed that yesterday and why do we not have this now? Yeah.

Yeah, so that, the product development side, it's very involved and not every, you know, you can't just go to the product, manufacturer, like the one product manufacturer. Every single manufacturer does something different. So, you know, there's a lot of, a lot of moving parts for sure.

Yeah, to keep on track.

So, and that world is so weird because you can't just like Google it. You just are like kind of just taking shots in the dark. And then it takes a lot of like networking and word of mouth to just find to find manufacturers.

Yeah, and find ones that you trust, that do a good job, and that aren't going to make your run and then maybe make another round of 1,000 and put them on Amazon or Alibaba, right? Exactly, exactly. So I'm sure you guys have already had your, um, you know, had your touches with copycats and people taking your pictures, um, and, you know, scraping your website content, as, as unfortunately we all have to do, you know, we all deal with those demons online and being in an online creative world where not all sharing is caring.

Yeah, right, right.

Yeah, a lot of— there are people that think so though. Yeah, exactly.

So, you know, we'll, we'll keep fighting those, those, those battles, definitely. So, um, well, you know, just to kind of wrap up, as, uh, you know, as people who are working in the space and being creative designers, um, I think one of the— sometimes the challenges that I hear from people is trying to stay fresh and stay, you know, making good content, but like I just mentioned, not overstepping the line in terms of taking from someone else where they feel like they're copying or ethically, you know, they're crossing over boundaries. So what do you do? Can you give us some kind of some tips that you do in terms of making sure that things are current and they're on trend, but that you're not copying, that it's still, it feels like you and it has your, you know, your authenticity voice in it.

Yeah, I think that some of our most successful ideas have come from when we like turn off Instagram and Pinterest. And so for me, a lot of times I find that a 3-day weekend where I'm not designing, or, you know, even a week off, but, you know, 3 days really more realistic.

A lot of our clients ask for the same look because they see a project that we've already done and then they want their house to feel like a project that we've already done. But I'm like in a new spot, like mentally I'm ready for something new by the time that, you know, and so how do we push and create?

And of course it's really easy to get on Pinterest and Instagram and see what other people are doing and then be like, oh, I want, you know, that. But I am really big into pushing our team creatively. I don't want us to get stuck in a rut of like Studio McGee does this only. Sure, we're known for an aesthetic and we have a look and a brand, but how can we reinvent that in new ways? So for me, it's all about turning the internet off, going away, coming back, and then also when I'm creating, I don't get on social media or Pinterest or anything. I don't look at anything. Except for, you know, if I'm shopping at vendors or, you know, looking at the products, let those dictate where I'm going, or let other things— let a photo of like a mountainscape inspire the color palette instead of a room inspiring the color palette. Try really hard to do that, but it is— it takes a lot of extra work. But I think that when people do that. That's where, that's when people stand out is when they're doing things instead of you always being the follower, like, oh, this is what people are doing now, so I'm going to do it too. Be the first one to do it. So then people are chasing you. Exactly.

I think that's really smart, your advice of, you know, stepping back from, from, you know, the constant connection from the media, from the internet, and also being open to inspiration from in different places. You know, yeah, if you're looking for a different way to style and do a room, don't look at rooms. Go look at art. Go, you know, go watch a cool movie. Go, you know, go for a hike. Um, do something outside of your industry to keep things fresh so that you're not, um, yeah, you're not getting too stale. And so that, yeah, you're not crossing the line of, um, just rinsing and repeating someone else's work, um, when you have more to give than that.

Yes, everyone has more to give. Yeah, that's awesome.

And I think that's good advice that carries across whether you're doing interior design or whether you're doing graphic design or hand lettering or photography or anything. I mean, I think those lessons can really be broadened and scaled across the creative arts for sure. So, well, thanks so much, Shay, for being on, and it's been such a pleasure to have you and just get caught up. And where can people find more about you? Which, if they're not following, I mean, I don't know what rock that they've been living under, and certainly hasn't been as cute a rock as it should have been. But where can— Paint that rock white. Yeah, paint that rock white, put a cute plant on it and a nice traditional rug. No, but where can people find you and connect with you and follow all the beautiful work that you're doing?

Yeah, so Instagram I think is the best representation of us. Studio, just @studio.mcgee, @mcgeeandco. And then our blog is this wealth of information on everything on like how to hang your light, a roundup of our favorite rugs, ceiling fans, beds, everything. We teach a lot on our blog. So that's studio-mcgee.com. That's awesome.

And you guys, I mean, you answer a lot of questions. I mean, you do a lot of Q&As. You really, you get into the nitty-gritty details of how can people love the space they're in and make it beautiful and make it work for them.

So guys, don't be shy.

Jump in there. Get part of the team. Get drinking the really pretty, pretty Kool-Aid. So thank you. Okay, thanks so much, Shay.

Wow, what an incredible episode with Shay. Um, I was so fortunate that I knew her, that she's now a really big deal, really talented. Um, and it was really kind of her to be on and just kind of give us, um, yeah, so much of this amazing journey and share that with us that she's been on with her husband. Um, just talking about the bravery that she had and going for their dreams dreams and really going all in, um, even when people thought they were silly, and growing fast and what that's meant for them. And, um, you know, so many lessons that they've learned along the way. I hope that you've picked up so many of the great nuggets as I have just listening to her story and how that applies even if you don't own an interior design firm or you don't sell, you know, interior design products or home furnishings online. Um, so much of what she talked about is applicable across the spectrum of creative businesses, businesses that are based online, especially ones that are doing creative services or one-on-one services for people. So I want to remind you that if you are interested in getting more information about this episode, show notes— so say you were listening in the car, on the go, or while washing dishes, that's where I listen to a lot of my podcasts, um, and you're like, I, I didn't write down any of those quotes and I'd really like to have access to them, um, go check out the show notes page. So it's going to be at Brittany martell.com/27 because this is episode 27. Yeah, hey, um, and I actually, um, I'll have a handout for this show. Um, I don't have them up for all of my episodes. Eventually I will, but I'm definitely going to do one for this one because, um, there's just so many great takeaways and quotes that I want you to have.

Um, easy peasy.

So go ahead and go to that URL. I'll have it linked here in the show notes, um, or pull it up yourself and you'll be able to download that. Um, and you also have the chance to sign up for my newsletter, um, which is called Legit with Britt. And I give, um, tips about running your own creative business. So, um, it draws on stuff that we talk about here in the podcast and some of the other great guests that I have on. It also talks about some of the legal tips and tricks that I share on my Instagram about running a business, starting a business, growing and scaling that business. You know, what happens when you need to change a contract or you need a contract in the first place? What about business entities and formation? What about copyrights and trademarks and making hires or fires? What about creative content or using other people's content? And, you know, the whole gamut of questions you might have as things are growing and moving along in your business. And, you know, well, I didn't put Shay up to it, you know, she certainly, you know, talked a lot about in this episode about just how useful it is to have someone you can trust who's on your side, who can be a real legal partner with you. And at first, that might just look like a one-off project, someone helping you draft something or review something. Um, but hopefully as you grow, that relationship can grow too, and you can find someone that you trust, that gets you, that gets your business and what you're trying to do, um, and can be a real part of your team and in your corner as you try to take your business where you want to. So, um, thanks so much for listening. If you can leave a review for the podcast. I really appreciate it. It really helps for the podcast to get up in the algorithm and in iTunes for other people to see it, and for this content, which is free and which is my plan to always remain free, to get out to more and more people. So thanks so much for joining me, and I'll catch you on the flip side.