Growing your team with Ashley Cox of Sprout HR - 003

Welcome to Law and Wit: Creative Counsel for Entrepreneurs. I'm your host, Brittany Ratelle, mother of 4, entrepreneur, and naptime attorney. Thanks for joining me. Hi, I'm Brittany Ratelle, and I am so excited to introduce our guest today, Ashley Cox. And Ashley is an HR specialist of Sprout HR, and she's a dual-certified human resource professional, and she's been working in the HR space for more than 12 years. After a decade in the corporate world, she kicked off her heels, wanted to trade in her fancy pencil skirts for some yoga pants so she could work out of her home and work with small businesses and creative businesses. She has helped entrepreneurs, creatives, all different types of solopreneurs, freelancer businesses, and she helps people hire, train, and lead productive, happy, and profitable teams for their businesses. When she's not getting nerdy with all things HR, something that I understand as well, all of the nerdy aspects of our business, She loves to go exploring and go on adventures with her husband. So she lives out in Tennessee and she loves spending time with their quirky dog, Myla. So thank you so much and welcome, Ashley, to Law and Wit.

Thanks so much, Brittany. I'm excited to be here today and get super nerdy with you about all things HR.

Well, you know, when in Rome, right? I mean, you know, I think we should be like a joke. There's an HR professional and an attorney walk into a bar and we We are a great start for a joke. We are. I mean, you could just, you could just see people right now of like, yeah, tell me more. This sounds, this sounds amazing. Um, but in, but in truth, we know that this stuff is so important and we understand like we're, we're self-aware enough that we know that this is not the most sexy side of building your businesses. Like we know that this is a far cry from the mood boards and you know, fancy linen business cards and kind of the fun side of building your business. But, it doesn't mean that we don't think we can make this interesting and applicable and digestible to people who we know need this stuff.

Absolutely, absolutely. It's always my goal to make HR fun because I absolutely believe it should and can be a really cool, fun part of your business because it's all about your people. And as much as we talk about taking care of our clients and loving on them and doing all these wonderful things for them, the same things apply to HR and with your own team. So kind of, I always give that spin into it to help people connect with, oh, HR can be fun and it can be enjoyable, and I can, you know, use that to really love one and take care of my team, right?

Yeah. In case your only experience with HR is you think of like Toby Flenderson from The Office, like, we, we can go, we can go beyond that, you know. We can, we can reclaim HR. I'm a believer. That's right.

Yeah, that's right. That's right.

For sure. So, okay, well, I want to kind of, um, get started today with, um, When you help people in kind of their businesses and people come to you and say, look, I know I need help, I need to hire a team member, where do you like to start with them?

I always really love to start with whether or not they're ready to hire a team member. And some people don't think that far into it or think that that's a really important element. But a lot of times I will actually talk people out of hiring someone because they need better systems in place or they need to utilize some automations in their business and they're not utilizing these tools to the best. Of their ability, which makes it feel like they need to hire employees. But employees and even contractors are a really big commitment in your business and a big financial commitment that a lot of people just aren't ready for. So if somebody comes to me and they're saying, well, I really think I need to hire help, but my sales are all over the place, I don't really have consistent income, what can I do? That's to me a trigger point to say, hmm, sounds like you need some systems in place first. And I have some really great friends and resources that can help people get those systems in place. Really, that's the first place that I start with almost every single client unless they already have a team of employees. And then even then it's kind of like, well, where are things falling short in your business? Where are gaps? And maybe even then they still need systems in place.

So yeah, I would think, yeah, where are those, those, those, you know, those, those funnels that are— things are getting tight and, you know, maybe there's room for a person to fill in there, or maybe there's something else. Maybe there's another tool, maybe, like you said, another system. That would, might be a better fit, you know, at least for the first, first wave of attack in terms of solving that problem.

Yeah. When you're not quite financially stable enough yet to hire a team, it's always great to check out your practices and your processes and your systems.

Yeah. First, I agree. So I don't think that necessarily bringing on another human being will simplify matters as much as people think it will. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, having a team is a huge responsibility on your time and your energy and your ability to not only self-manage, manage, but manage other people. So it will really complicate your business if you're not in a place to, to really lead them effectively.

Right, right, exactly. So, okay, so if someone kind of walks through that and they get some, they get some, you know, clarifications and vision in terms of, all right, my processes, and they're still there, they still want to move forward, you know, after a length of time and decide, look, I think it's right to bring someone on. You know, I think a lot of people, you know, they get some sort of assistant or a VA or something, or What do you, what do you recommend to clients? Is there other things that you recommend in terms of places to go to start shopping or ways to approach in terms of what you need out of a VA?

I love this question. Yes. So one of the things that I always tell people about is don't hire your best friend's VA. And the reason for this is because just because this person is doing an incredible job for your best friend doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to have the right skills or the right training or tools that you need to fix the biggest gap in your business. So we always start with identifying the gap and seeing what we specifically need to find in a VA or an assistant or an admin to fill those needs for you. And every single business is different and each of us are different. We all have different skill sets, we all have different strengths and weaknesses, and we need somebody to offset our weaknesses. So your best friend's VA may be incredible, but he or she may not have the right skills that you need in your business. So that's where we start, is identifying the, the gaps in your business, identifying your weaknesses, and then clearly outlining who it is that you need on your team. And then from there you can ask for referrals, but only after we get super clear on what it is that you need so that way you can find the right person. And I definitely recommend asking for referrals. So it may turn out that your best friend's VA really is the best match for you, but we gotta make sure that we understand what you need in your business first. And then from there, asking for referrals. Facebook groups are a great place to find qualified VAs. There's a few different platforms out there that people have kind of been exploring here lately, and, and I've been getting some feedback from clients on, yeah, this one worked, or no, that wasn't a good fit. So there's just a lot of different places to look for VAs, and a lot of times really personal referrals is going to be your best bet because you know that the quality of the person you're working with is there.

Especially if it's someone, I imagine, who's already become familiar, you know, with your industry or kind of what you do or something similar to it. So, but I love your, your challenge to, you know, really be, be active and take that time to do some thought work in terms of what do you need and what are you not great at, or, and, or what do you not like to do in your business. And then think about that in terms of what someone should be bringing to the table and perhaps what qualifications or skills or experience they would need in order to really help you.

Absolutely. And even characteristics. I know a lot of times people will put— well, people may hate me for this, but I'm going to say it anyways, Brittany. People may want to put out there, must love puppy snuggles, must love donuts, must love pink cupcakes, all of these fluffy frou-frou things. And y'all, every time I see it, my little HR heart just breaks because just because somebody likes pink cupcakes does not mean they're going to be good for your business. Please, stop putting that out there.

Right.

If you want to create that kind of culture in your business where you have Cupcake Tuesday, great, I love that, that's perfect. But putting it on a job description or a call for help is not the appropriate place for it. So I'm going to smack your little hand on that one.

Right.

And make sure that you're—

yeah, that you're, you're working on stuff, you know. Yeah. In terms of setting up a professional persona, it's maybe not, maybe not what you want to lead with. Yeah, yeah.

And you can't tell if somebody is detail-oriented because they love puppy snuggles, right? A lot of people love puppy snuggles who don't pay a lick of attention to detail. So we got to make sure that we're getting the right characteristics that you need for your business.

Also, yeah, let's, let's think about someone who can actually remember to feed the dog and not just snuggle the dog. So yeah, you know, let's, let's look at big picture here, you know. Do you really, do you want another like BFF that you can chat with, or do you want someone who's get stuff done, you know?

And that's the key part here, Brittany, is because a lot of people can hire. I mean, any, any old person can hire a team of people. It is not super hard rocket science to just go out and say, hey, I pick you.

However, can I give you some money? Would you like some money? Let's do that.

Yeah, I will give you money, you give me work. Great. But the point here is, and what I really try to drive with my brand and with my clients, is hiring a productive and profitable team. We want a team that is going to help drive our business forward and make us money. And sometimes we're just going about it all the wrong way. So I help fix that.

Yes, yes, you do. Yes, you do. So, okay. And then kind of the, the next, you know, I think kind of the, the juncture that people have to decide is, is it right for them to hire independent contractor or employee? And I know this is a big question, so I'm going to let you run with this in terms of what should people be thinking about and where do people make a mistake?

Oh, I love this question because it is so complex and people think, oh, I'll just hire a contractor for everything I need in my business. But depending on what you specifically need in your business and how your business is set up and the tasks that you do is going to really make a difference in whether you hire a contractor or an employee and different businesses could hire the same type of worker, but it's going to be an employee in one business and it's going to be a contractor in another type of business. So some of the things that you really need to watch out for is one very important concept in the world of hiring contractors, and that's called degree of control. And essentially, this means how much control or how little control do you need over the person who going to be working with you in your business. So with a contractor, you are not going to be setting their work hours. You are not going to be telling them how to perform their work. You're not going to be training them how to do their job. Contractors should come to you with the skills that you need. If you are training a contractor, that person should be an employee, not a contractor. And I know that's really hard to hear because we want to help support each other and take care of each other and build each other up and give each other the skills that we need.. But that clearly breaks a law set forth by the government. I didn't make it up. I just help keep y'all out of trouble.

You know, don't outshoot the messenger.

That's right. But you know, these are very, very key parts of defining that contractor versus employee relationship. So why is that important? Well, because when we misclassify someone as a contractor who should really be classified as an employee, we are actually causing them to not have some very important rights that are outlined by the federal government, including benefits, unemployment insurance, workers' compensation coverage, various types of protections under the law from discrimination and harassment to, you know, equal pay and equal rights and all these different things. And so when you misclassify someone, you're actually taking away the rights that they have under the federal law, which is not a good place to put yourself or your business.

Right. Not, not a spot that any of us want to be or that, yeah, would choose to sign up for.

So yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Contractors should be doing supplemental type of work in your business as well. They shouldn't be doing core operations, which is a really big distinction. So let's say, for example, you're a graphic designer. You have a business, you do logos and websites and graphic design. You're getting ready to hire someone to help you in your business. And you're thinking, "Oh, I'd love to hire, you know, somebody who can just kind of manage my emails and help me stay on task and, you know, kind of flow through my day and figure out what am I doing next and how am I doing it and how can I keep track of all these balls in the air?" You can absolutely hire a VA or a virtual assistant, somebody who can just kind of give you a little bit of support, a little bit of help as needed, because those aren't the core functions of your business. Answering emails is not a core function. It's a function that, you know, helps us do business. So a VA would be appropriate in that situation. You could hire somebody on a contract basis. But let's say you wanna hire a, like a quote, junior designer. And I know this is a really big topic in the graphic design world. So a junior designer should be someone who is probably an employee in your business. I'm not gonna say 100% because again, every business is different and the rules really are super particular about your specific situation. But—

And you might be kicked out of your Facebook group, so yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

They're gonna come after you. With their pitchforks and their fancy fonts and chase you out of town. Yeah. Yes, yes, absolutely.

Absolutely. You know, I, you know, again, don't shoot the messenger, but your junior designers should very likely be an employee in your business because they're doing core work that's essential. You could not do your business if you weren't doing these functions, whether it's a logo or it's, you know, social media graphics or it's an entire website design or coding. So there's just kind of an example. I think that the creative world would really maybe understand as far as the differences between what work is core and what work is supplemental.

Right, gotcha. And then, um, what about— how does that look like in a product-based business? So say someone, you know, is a maker, that they have some sort of product that they sell, um, you know, even if it's on their own, you know, shop, or say they run an Etsy shop or something, and when they get something— someone to help with either the production or the shipping of that, um, what do you usually see in terms of classification, or what should we, we be seeing?

Yeah, absolutely. Usually I will tell my product-based business clients that if they're having an in-shop assistant who is working on their premises, who is packaging and sending out orders, that that should probably be an employee in their business. And that's because, you know, this person, number one, is working in your business. Number two, they're working with your tools and with the things that you're providing. They're working a specific or a set number of hours or, you know, a set schedule each week because production has to happen. You have to get the product either created or out the door at the same time every week. And then they're doing core functions for your business. You wouldn't be able to operate your business if you didn't ship your product to your customer. So for those reasons, I would say that 9 times out of 10 in a product-based business, if you're hiring a shop assistant or a, you know, production or shipping assistant, then that person needs to be an employee as well.

Gotcha. So, so an important thing to think about if you're in that realm and, you know, trying to budget accordingly in terms of what does it really cost to run my business, um, you should probably be looking at, yeah, hiring someone more in an employee capacity than independent contractor. So, um, you know, with how serious it is if you get the classification wrong, why do you think that so many people shy away and keep people as an independent contractor?

No, to avoid paying taxes because they're cheap. We're all cheap. We're all cheap. We all have the desire to spend as little much money as possible and make as much money as humanly possible. And one of the great ways to do that is to hire a contractor. And a lot of times I tell my clients a great place to start outsourcing is to hire an independent contractor. However, it definitely depends on what types of tasks you're going to outsource and who that person is going to actually be in your business. But yeah, people hire contractors and companies big and small miss classify or talk people into being contractors when they really should be employees so they don't have to pay Social Security and Medicare and unemployment insurance and all of these expenses which increase the cost of your employee by 15 to 20% usually. So if you're paying somebody $10 an hour, add another 15 to 20% on top of that, and that's what you're actually spending on an employee. And a lot of people don't understand that. You know, a lot of people come to me and say, I want to pay my employee $25 an hour because I never got to make that much money. And I'm like, whoa, you realize there's another 15 to 20% on top of that, right?

Right. Like, they probably won't even see or appreciate, and but you're paying anyway, you know, like that, that's real money, real dollars, even if someone's not seeing it.

So yeah, yeah. And I actually was just in a Facebook group earlier this week where a couple of people were talking about these quote contract positions that they were talking with, with some larger companies. They were still kind of like medium-sized businesses, but I was like I was like, um, ladies, I'm gonna need y'all to understand a couple of things about contractors and how this whole thing works, because it sounds like you're kind of getting the short end of the stick here. And so, you know, I kind of walked through a couple of things with them. They were like, oh my gosh, I didn't even know that that was a thing. So whether you're hiring people, or if you're a contractor and you're working with another company in a contracted position, it's so important to understand the laws that surround that so that way you're doing the right things in your business and you're not getting the short end of the stick, right?

And how to feel confident that you can give a little pushback in terms of if someone has hired you as an independent contractor for a business and they seem to be kind of taking over your life, you know. And we've all— and we've all had that, you know. We've all had those, you know, just, you know, really, really awful clients. And who, you know— and we, you know, a lot of us, we have that little voice inside. We had that little Jiminy Cricket voice saying like I think this person's gonna be a problem. And sometimes we listen and sometimes we don't, and we pay for it later. That— but it can be, you know, so it could be so important for you to know in terms of, you know what, I said I'd have this project done at this date and that, that's what's gonna happen, but this is what I need from you. Or, you know, you don't have the right to be controlling this amount of things or this amount of round of edits or to tell me how I'm gonna do that. Because when someone gets into the internal process processes of your work, you're right, that is, that is not independent contractor. There is very little independence going on there.

Absolutely, absolutely. I kind of always like to give the example, it's like when you hire somebody to come and paint the inside of your house. Say they're painting, you know, a living room and a hallway and an entrance or whatever. You're hiring this person, they set their hours. You don't tell them like, oh no, I know that you usually work Monday through Friday, 8 to 5, but I'm really just gonna need you to come in on Saturday and work a full 10-hour day because I want you to just come in and whip it all out in one day and be done with it. No, they set their hours. You don't buy their tools for them. You're not buying their van. You're not buying their paintbrushes and their paint tarps and, you know, all of these things. You might be, you know, charged for the cost of the actual paint that's going on your walls, but you're not buying the tools that they're doing their job with. You're not going in there and telling them how to do their job. You hired a professional for a reason, so you're not going in there and saying, well, Well, now, you know, I was watching HGTV last week and I really think that the paint technique that you're using is not quite right, so let me just grab this roller here and show you how to do it.

Yeah, you know, I've watched a lot of episodes of Fixer Upper, so I'm pretty sure I have this under control. Let me give you some tips here. Yeah, exactly.

I'm sure that would go over really well. And nobody likes to be told how to do their job when they're coming in as the expert, so use a little common sense here and think about the painter exercise, and I guarantee that will help you understand contractors a little bit better.

Gotcha. So, um, so I mean, you would— you think kind of by nature of hiring an independent contractor, you'd notice that contract is in that word and implies, um, that we should have some sort of agreement in terms of what is this business relationship going to look like. Um, and you know me, you know how much I, I love a contract. I'm a believer in contracts. I testify of contracts. Um, but, uh, some people are not on board and think that they don't need to have that, that a handshake, a wink wink, or even an email would suffice. What advice do you tell people about setting up that contract in terms of the relationship, business relationship?

I would say listen to Brittany.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna embroider that on a pillow for me.

Yeah, that's right, listen to Brittany. Yeah, you know, the thing is, yeah, it might work out okay in your favor, but the bigger chance is that it's not going to work out okay in your favor and that there are gonna be questions, or there's going to be confusion, or there's going to be misunderstandings. And when we don't have these things outlined, then that's when the problems happen. But the cool thing about contracts is that it sets the expectation for a great relationship from the very beginning. And it's all about the relationship, right? It's so important to both be on the same page with how this thing is going to work. It's not that it's it's a bad thing that you're beating somebody over the head with a 7-page contract that, you know, you're telling them this is how things are gonna be and I rule the roost. A contract, when it's well written, is a two-way street. It not only protects you, but it protects the client in case something happens on your end, especially things like, you know, acts of God. Okay, so when we think about all the hurricanes we had this season, how many small businesses ended up not being able to work because their house was under, you know, 6 feet of water?

Yeah, they couldn't deliver the goods like they thought they would because they couldn't get their supplies like they, that they should have been able to, you know. Yeah, things happen, plans change, and, uh, you know, the only thing constant we know is change.

Absolutely, absolutely. Um, but you know, it really sets the, the stage for you to say, okay, this thing happened that's way out of my control, but it also helps the client know, here's how we're going to handle that moving forward in case something out of your control does happen, so that they're not just a sitting duck and going, well, I guess I lost out.

Right, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, so, um, I, uh, I was talking with someone and actually doing some work for a client the other day, and it was all around talking about, um, how you can protect your business kind of secrets, you know, the difference between trade secrets and intellectual property. And because I know that's sometimes a concern for people as they grow their team is like, well, look, you know, I don't want someone coming in and taking my stuff and ripping me off. Um, can you speak a little bit about that, about what should people be thinking about, what they should protect, and how How should they do it?

Yeah, I love this question too, because that's one of the things that causes a lot of people not to hire help in their business is, I don't want anybody coming in and taking off with all my great ideas and my processes and the secret sauce that makes my business special or different. And I always tell people, you know, if that's a really big concern of yours, and even if it's not a concern, but you have legitimate processes and things in place that are unique to your business, you should absolutely look into getting a nondisclosure agreement. Um, you know, something that outlines, hey, these are my trade secrets, hey, those are your trade secrets, and neither one of us are going to share. Again, if it's written well, it's a two-way street document. So that way they feel good about working with you and showing you the processes they have in place, and you feel good about them being inside of your business and seeing the things that are unique and special to you. Even having a clause in your contract that kind of reiterates that and states, you know, I'm not going to give away stuff, you're not going to give away stuff, this is, you You know, all of our trade secrets are, are private and confidential. And I think it's, you know, anything that you have a process for that's unique, you have ideas or information or services that are very, you know, proprietary in nature. They have something going on. Any sort of financial information that you might be sharing with a contractor. I have them in place with my clients because I get to hear all the dirty details about what's going on in your business.

Dirty laundry, you know.

And that's right, that's right. And I don't want them to feel like I'm gonna go out and air all their dirty laundry. And they need to know that if I'm gonna be this intimately involved in their business, that they can trust me and that we also have that legal protection in place, right, as a backup.

Yeah, for sure. So, and I love that what you discussed is that those things should be unique. I think what happens is a lot of businesses, you know, we, we tend to you know, over— you know, we, yeah, we kind of gloat ourselves and think that like, oh, I have a wonderful business and I do things in a special way. But the reality is, you know, that most of us, in terms of the way we do business, is probably the very same way that a lot of people do business. So yeah, what you have that's unique is you, you know, it's your voice, it's your flavor of doing things. But, but I see a lot of people, you know, getting really caught up in in terms of, well, someone's ripping me off, or they're doing the exact same thing. And, you know, I always try to give them a little pushback there that like, let's really think about what you're doing. Is this an abnormal way of someone else in your industry or position or occupation, how they would do the same thing?

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

And I've talked to clients before who've said, you know, this person, they went and they started their own business after they worked with me and they stole all my processes. And I'm like, yeah, but how are they doing? Because they're not you. And your clients are coming to you because they connect with you, and they can't steal your heart and your personality and the way that you interact with clients. And so, you know, don't worry so much about people stealing your stuff. Just worry about serving your clients well, and, you know, things will work out much better for you instead of worrying about what everybody else is doing. I know a lot of times we just get so tied up in competition and what are they doing and oh my gosh, they're doing the same thing I am, or so-and-so started a new business and it's exactly the same model as mine is. Well, there's really not that many new ideas out there.

Yeah, let's all, let's all be real here, okay? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, you know, it's just, you know, taking care of yourself, keeping your eyes on your own paper is what I like to tell my clients a lot. And just doing what's right and what's best for your people and your team and your business.

And yeah, and moving forward with confidence and knowing that you, you can, you can do stuff, you can build a team, people can ebb and flow as part of your processes and you're going to be okay going forward. So, and, and so are they. And you know what, there's, there's a big pie out there and you know, if you, I think, start from that attitude of abundance rather than scarcity of, well, that means if they're making money, that means that I'm not. And that's not necessarily true.

Yeah. I love, I love that you brought that up and it's so important because you know, So there's plenty of pie to go around for everybody. This is a, this is a big giant, you know, almost endless pie that we've got. And so, you know, coming from a place of abundance and knowing that you are enough, you have, you know, a special skill set or a unique skill set that you serve your clients with, you will attract the right people.

Right, exactly. Yeah, I think, I think that's true. So, and you'll both be better served because of it. So Another kind of hot topic issue that I get a lot of questions about is how do I manage social media and people who work on my team? So, you know, in terms of how much should I be sharing with them, how much direction, or what happens if people start talking online about your business, your employees? So what, how do you advise clients to handle those kinds of issues?

To have an employee handbook that outlines this clearly.

Yeah.

You know, if you do have actual employees who are managing your social media, there need to be policies and guidelines and expectations in place for what it looks like in the business and what it looks like outside of the business. And there are some very specific laws about how much you can and cannot control your employees in their personal social media space. It's really detailed and it's a lot of information and every single case is unique and specific. And so it really works best on a case-by-case basis. But kind of having an outline as, you know, you, when you're on your personal social media, are not a representative of the company. So if you have an opinion, then you might need to put, you know, I am not a representative of this company, even though they are an employee. It doesn't mean that they speak for for you or your business or your values or your political or religious views or affiliations, but you also can't prohibit them from their First Amendment right to free speech. And unless it's something that's slanderous or libel, then they pretty much can say what they want on their personal social media.

Right, which I'm gonna jump in with a little legally speak here, is that that means that you have to be able to prove that someone has actual malice malice, meaning like they knew you weren't a thief and they called you a thief anyway. But what's really hard about that is that you have to prove that they knew that it wasn't true. And for most of us who say mean things about people online, it's really hard to say that they knowingly knew that that was false because if they have any kind of information or, well, I heard this story or I saw this happen— and so, yeah, I'll just go out there and say libel and slander are really hard to prove, especially if you're a public figure. The more famous you are, the more celebrity status you have and put yourself out there, it's kind of assumed that, you know, that that's part of the game, that people are going to say nice things about you and not so nice things about you.

So yeah, absolutely. It's kind of like a customer that leaves a nasty review who never worked with you. It's like, well, I can't really do anything to them. And it's about the same thing with your employees. Unless, you know, you can prove malice intent, there's not a not a whole lot that you can do. The best thing to do is to be a good human being, treat people with respect, have clear policies and processes for how you manage and lead your business, and be fair in how you implement those and how you enact those policies across the board with your team. If you're doing shady stuff, then people are gonna call you on it.

Right. Then don't be surprised, you know, yeah, when it when it comes out, you know, if you're doing things that if they were in the full sunshine that you'd be embarrassed about.

So yeah, yeah, think about—

love that— think about what your grandma would say if she could see you as running your business. She'd be proud of what you're doing. So exactly. So well, I think those are all, you know, such important things as we think about, you know, growing our team and dealing with, you know, the realities of running teams online. And we have access to so much information and And we have people who have, you know, will make comments and sometimes, you know, speak out of turn. You know, we have some pretty prominent examples of people who put stuff online without really thinking sometimes. And it's, you know, it's crazy how much, how quickly things can turn. You know, I know you've seen people and you've seen stories in the news and heard personal stories of people who, yeah, things went, turned south really quickly.

Oh yeah. Just one offhanded comment that they didn't take take 2 seconds to process through their filter before they just let it fly can easily destroy a company's reputation. Easily. So, you know, it's just being careful what you say to your employees, how you say it to your employees, how you treat your team members. You know, it's one bad move and an insincere apology can destroy you quicker than anything. Um, but to kind of, to kind of follow up on that, we're human, we're going to make mistakes, right? We're going to say stupid things occasionally. We're going to get upset and maybe, you know, have a little temper tantrum or a little fit, um, or, you know, whatever it is that your fatal character flaw happens to be. The big important part here is how you recover from that. So it's, you often hear somebody say it's 5% the actual problem and 95% how respond or react. You know, a sincere apology that's heartfelt, ownership, taking ownership of the thing that you did that was wrong or bad or incorrect will go a long way with your employees. And I've seen some managers make some horribly egregious mistakes, but they didn't lose the complete respect of their team because of the way that they handled it. And I think just really being honest with your people— hey, you know, I made a mistake, I'm human too, even though I'm at the I'm at the helm of this ship, even though I own this business, there's going to be times where my emotions get the better of me or I say something without thinking it all the way through and I take ownership for that. I'm incredibly sorry. How can we move forward? And letting your people kind of be part of that process as well.

Right. Yeah, I agree. So, you know, those are things I find myself telling my kids all the time because I want them to know that, you know, I love them and I try my best, but I'm a human being. And, you know, I am a, you know, I have a— I'm a mom with faults, and I make mistakes sometimes. And, and that's okay, you know. It's okay to admit that we make mistakes, and it's not about hiding those. It's about bouncing back and what's, what's our way of moving forward, you know, of getting better, of acknowledging that and taking ownership, and then showing up again in a meaningful way.

So absolutely love that.

Yeah. So, um, well, that's all good advice really, as just general human being.

So yes, just be a good human being.

Be a good human being, says Ashley, and the rest will follow. So if you just want to put that as your new business methodology, you can probably just forget all the other stuff, you know, all the— yeah, all the forms, you know, all the having people send out their 1099s, the employee handbooks, all the other stuff.

So, oh, if it was only so easy.

I know, right? So is there anything else that you, that you could think of, or 3 other kind of laws of HR that you like to tell people in terms of when you're looking to build your team and have people work with you, what should they be doing to kind of keep themselves safe and profitable and productive?

Yeah, absolutely. I would say that the first law would be take your time to research and do things properly on the front end. This is where I see a lot of people making big mistakes in their business is that they'll go, oh, I'll just, you know, throw it together really quick and I'll figure it out later. Well, the problem is, is when you do that, you could have just done it with a lot less time and a lot less headaches on the front end and set it up properly. It's just like anything else. If we take the time to plan, things will go much more smoothly instead of trying to unravel this hot mess express later on. And, and that's a really big part. It's never— number 2, I guess— it's never too early to start planning for your team. If you've got big goals and big visions that you're gonna have this, you know, multiple 6-figure or 7-figure business, you are going to need a team of people in some way, shape, or form to help you get there. So start thinking about, okay, what do I need to do to start cultivating the type of culture I want to bring these team members into? What is my vision? How am I gonna share that with these people? How am I gonna I'm going to, you know, share what are my core values and how am I going to share that with the team and how am I going to hire the right people that are going to embody those same types of core values? Because there's a lot of work that you can do as a solopreneur to get yourself prepared and ready for success in business. And number 3, get those systems and those processes outlined, my friend, because when you bring people into your business as employees, they are going to need to know What am I doing? How am I doing it? Where do I find the information? And if you don't have clearly outlined processes and systems in place, guess whose coattails they're gonna be tagging on every 5 minutes, right?

And now you are Mr. Manager. So yeah, you want to be or not? And, and how is that saving you any time? So, you know, I think it starts with that. I love, you know, listening to Pat Flynn, and he even recommends just on your own, but like, if you have a business process that you do a lot, write up your own checklist a checklist for it so that way you know every single time I open this folder, I write this thing, then I create this type of graphic, I make it this size. And, um, it's amazing how much time you can save when you know exactly what's going on and you don't have to think about, okay, no, wait, no, what, what else comes next and what process? And, and if you can do it that quickly, then you can get someone else to help you quickly too.

Absolutely, absolutely. And that saves your creative energy, it saves your mental energy. Why are we thinking about these those are things that we do on a regular basis. And why are we always thinking about, now what do I need to do next and how am I going to do that? And when we use our mental energy for those types of, you know, tedious, regular, every day, every week, every month tasks, then we're taking that creativity and that energy from somewhere else. New products, new services, new ways to show up for our clients. And so I think it's really, really important to start getting those in place. And you don't have to sit down in one day and write every process in your business. Like, who could do that? That's, that's crazy. Write down the process when you're going through it, and it's like, oh, here's how my blog process goes. Oh, here's how my social media scheduling process goes. Whatever it is, all you're doing is jotting it down. And then processes and systems help empower your team to be on their own, and it makes them feel good that they can refer to something and can feel accomplished when they achieve the task. Ask without having to come and ask you 57,000 questions. So it's also great for empowerment of your team and to making them feel confident in their job as well.

Yeah. And having them, you know, getting— giving them to be able to have ownership in the business, because we all want to feel successful. I mean, I don't think there's any, any person in whatever job they're doing, you know, even, you know, the most lowly technician who doesn't want to feel like they're doing a good job, you know. And you want to be able to get more responsibility as they prove that they are— can handle that, you know, and can do things well and proficiently.

So absolutely. But when we micromanage our team because we don't have processes in place or because we think no one can do the job as good as we can, uh, well then that is where, my friend, things start to go south for you. So, you know, get the processes in place, train your team, and then let go and trust.

Yeah, which I mean that's, you know, that, that's hard. I think for— I think that's hard for creatives. I think that's hard for entrepreneurs. I think that's hard for us women entrepreneurs sometimes, is that we are used to do-it-yourself, bootstrap, I can do it on my own, no one has my special touch. And, um, but, uh, you know, there comes a time when you have to be able to let go and say, you know, what do I do best and how can I let go of the rest?

Absolutely, absolutely. And you know what, you're not the only person in the world can schedule social media. No, that's a hard— and that's a hard reality. It's that you've worked so hard to build this business from the ground up, and you've literally done every single thing in it, that it is hard to let go. And it's, you know, you've perfected your routine or your process or the way that you do things. But you know what? Somebody else might have a better idea. They might be able to do it faster than you can. They might be able to do it more efficiently than you can, which means that they save you time and money, and they're able to be able to work on other things that are really instrumental in driving your business forward. So I always tell my clients, let go and trust, let go and trust. If you did the work on the front end, then you can let go and trust.

Yeah, that's, that's what's awesome. So I totally agree. So well, thank you so much, Ashley, for being here. If people want to know more about you, which they are— I mean, we're gonna make the assumptive sale right there because our Obviously you're amazing. You know your HR stuff and you, you understand this business. You, you talk the talk, you know, there's no mansplaining going on here. Like you understand what's going on with creative business owners. How can people find you and what do you do for businesses?

So, well, first, thank you very much. That is a high measure to live up to, but I do try. But you can find me online. I have a website at sprouthr.co, that's C-O, not dot com. And I'm on Instagram @sprout_hr and on Facebook @sprouthr where I love to do Facebook Lives. And so come join me and chat with me. I love answering questions. I love digging into the challenges that you're facing or the things that are coming up that are keeping you up at night. Let's dig deep into those and let's talk about how you can create a business business that, you know, is profitable and, and that your team is happy and loyal and they are doing the things every day that drives your business forward.

Awesome. So wonderful. And I know you've got lots of resources on your website too for people, and I know you're, you're posting good tips. So if people want, want more of that, they should, they should find you and, and follow you and give you some love because it'll be worth their time for sure.

So, well, thank you so much. I have just loved our conversation today. It's been so much fun. Wouldn't you guys agree? It's been so much fun. Like, leave us some comments or loves or a review or something. Tell Brittany how amazing she is because she does an incredible job and I just admire the way that you tackle law for creatives. I think it's super fun and super approachable and maybe that's why we get along so well.

I think so. I think we'll agree with that. We'll leave on the high note. So thanks. Thanks so much, Ash, for being on and We'll, we'll hope to chat with you and meet with you again.

So thanks so much. I had a great day.

If you'd like to hear more, please subscribe to my show in iTunes and leave a review. That's how I get my content out to more people. Thanks so much.