How to quit stumbling over your words and actually tell people what you do with StoryBrand consultant Macy Robison - 60

Creative Counsel Episode 60: How to Quit Stumbling Over Your Words and Actually Tell People What You Do with StoryBrand Expert Macy Robinson. Welcome to Creative Counsel with Brittany Rettell. I'm your host Brittany, an attorney for creatives who believes in solid contracts and cute office supplies, and who wants to empower you to be a more confident business owner. Whether you're a creative, influencer, maker, artist, shop owner, or content creator, you are not just a blank. You are a real bona fide business owner. So let's help you own your business and get you legally legit with Brit. Welcome back. I'm so excited you're here. Thanks so much for tuning in. So I've got an amazing episode in store for you, so I'll keep it sweet and short. Yeah, I know you're rolling your eyes at me because you're like, Brit, when in your life have you ever been short and sweet about anything? Well, I mean, you could always increase the speed on your podcast. You have the power. That's how I roll anyway. But I wanted to give a little bit of context about today. Macy's an amazing person who I've gotten to be able to meet in person and online. She really knows her stuff. So I'm really excited to share this conversation today, all about like, how do we get like a more clear, especially message about what we're actually doing and selling? And how do we stop stumbling over our words when someone asks us what it is that we do, especially if we're one of those multi-passionate, just super successful people that everyone hates, who does a lot of great things. So if you want more clarity on that, you're in the right spot. As an aside, if you haven't had a chance to leave a rating or review for the podcast, I would really appreciate that. That's something that helps other people find it. Um, my ratings and reviews are a little lonely right now. They haven't gotten some love in a while. So if you've been enjoying listening to the podcast, um, uh, I would love if you just scroll down to the bottom of your iTunes right there and you could just leave, you know, even some quick— a bunch of the stars. If you can leave a few words, that'd be awesome. But if you don't have time for that, no judgment. Please just give me some— a couple stars, um, and you can be on your merry way. But I'd really appreciate that. And if there's someone else who you think could enjoy listening to Creative Counsel and that would help them in their business as they're trying to build their and figure out just navigating being kind of an online modern business, please send them my way. Share an episode with them, share on your social media. All of that stuff is kind of the highest compliment you can give to a content creator like myself, especially someone who's putting out this in this format, totally free. In fact, I invest a lot of resources in that just because I, I'm really committed and passionate about putting information out there that's going to help you and help you show up in the way you want to in your business. So Let's, uh, let's all work and be on that same team together. So without further ado, let's introduce and get started with this amazing conversation with Macy Robinson. So excited to introduce our guest today. We have Macy Robinson and she is a musical theater performer turned self-taught photographer, um, and is a StoryBrand certified guide and the head of Uplight Creative, an agency that helps clients clarify their marketing message and create a website that converts followers into customers. She is a pro at getting people to really hone in on their marketing message and to be able to clearly explain and articulate to others what they do and why they should choose them for their customer journey. So welcome, Macy.

Thank you. What a nice introduction.

Yeah, well, you're a really nice person, so it makes it—

Now I'm blushing.

Yeah, well, you know, that's what I— I'm a hype girl slash host, you know, I can do both things. So, but I was lucky enough to connect with you at Alt a couple weeks ago. We were both there. And everyone was just raving about you and raving about your roundtable. And I thought to myself, well, that's a sign. I need Macy in my life and I need her on my podcast. And so I'm really glad that you can be on to make that happen.

So yeah. I'm happy to be here. That was a fun week. It was really a great experience.

It was. Yeah. I just love Alt and love everything about it. It's just fantastic. Well, kind of give us your Reader's Digest story of where you started out. I know you kind of have a cool non-traditional track in terms of starting out in the performing arts. And then kind of pivoting and turning that into your expertise now, um, and then letting know, you know, what you do for clients and what you love about it.

Yeah, I do have sort of a windy path, which, you know, for a while I was kind of not ashamed of, but just had a hard time explaining what I did and what I cared about. I started out in musical theater, like you said in the introduction, um, I did that for a while. I switched over to choir, um, in terms of like education. I switched to classical voice and got my degree. My actual degree is in music education, and I also have a master's degree in music education from Ohio State. So taught school for about 13 years, and then, you know, got married, became a mom, and was looking at things that didn't involve me being in, in the classroom. And we'd also moved several times, and anybody that's out there that's taught in public schools knows you— if you move to a different state, you need to get certified by that state, and it's sort of an exhausting, expensive annoying process when you're just trying to teach kids and have to jump through all those hoops. And we were moving to Texas where we live now in Austin, and I just kind of had been dabbling in photography and decided I was just going to go for it because I didn't want to certify to teach in yet another state. Um, so started on that, started building up that business. Um, at the same time, I started singing again and started speaking again and was speaking for an inspirational women's conference and, and meeting some authors and meeting some other creatives. Um, and they were asking me questions about my photography business that I was kind of building up and working on. And so just dabbling in marketing and helping people build a presence online and fascinated by all of it, read as much as I could, self-taught, learned as much as I could. And about 2 years ago, I was working with a friend of mine turned client. I'd redesigned her website a couple of times and she was launching a book, her second or third book, and wanted some help with that marketing-wise. And, and I'd gone from performing at this event to doing their marketing. So I'd had a little bit more experience there and we started working together. And to kick things off, I suggested we go to a live workshop in Nashville called the StoryBrand Live Workshop. We can talk about a little bit about StoryBrand and kind of the philosophy and framework for marketing that all of that brings together. And, and was just so taken by how clear the framework is, how much it helps businesses of all sizes talk about what they do in a way that is clear, inviting customers into a story of transformation. And it made such a difference in this client's business. It grew her email list from, you know, sub-3,000 to 25,000 within a quarter or two. And she has a huge social media presence in several other places. So getting those email addresses in a way that can allow her business to grow and build and, and it just saw such a great spike spike in her growth in a way that makes sense and, you know, building relationship with people that I ended up becoming a guide for them, StoryBrand certified guide. So I'm licensed to use the framework to help my clients build collateral and in their strategy. And then I also have been hired by StoryBrand over the last year to go back and coach at their workshops as well as help onboard new guides like me. In starting their businesses. So I kind of do an on-ramping 6-session group coaching with, with the new guides that come on board. So that's kind of my background. It's all self-taught. And just, I, I think because of my start in singing and in the arts, I resonate really, really strongly with the idea of story and how it organizes and compels the human mind to act. And, you know, my, with my background in music in particular, noise— when you have noise and then you apply rules to it, it becomes music. When you have random words and you apply a framework to it, it becomes a story. And both of those parallels really, um, I don't know, just resonate with me and, and kind of drive what I love to do, which is help, help other businesses, creatives, authors, um, like really get to the heart of their voice and what they have to share that's unique with the world and teach them how to talk about it in a way so that others remember and that message is clear and rings true and they can draw people to them and provide value for them.

I love that. I love what you were saying there about the change in terms of bringing chaos to order and taking people along on that journey and understanding that there is always a little bit of a juxtaposition. There are always going to be elements of both. But, you know, like, I mean, it is the hero's journey. So, you know, I'm a little bit familiar with StoryBrand. I've listened to a couple of podcasts that Donald's been on and I've loved everything that he's shared. Maybe for those of our audience who are not familiar with StoryBrand, um, and who are definitely going to want to know more after this, um, why don't you kind of run through a little bit about what, what the framework entails, what its main modalities are?

Yeah, there's a couple of big overarching points that I think are super important. And first is that it is— it's not the story of your business. It's not you saying kind of what I just did, um, where I walked through my whole background and told you all those things. Um, you know, it's not saying on your about page We started this business 100 years ago and here's why we're awesome. It's talking to your customer as they are the hero. They're the hero of the story. You're the guide. And so everything you share with them, everything you do is positioning yourself as the guide to their hero's journey, helping them become, you know, the climactic, helping them reach that climactic scene, that happy ending movie, you know, thing that we all love so much.

Walking away from the explosion in the sunset, you know, not looking back. Yeah.

Right. You're Mr. Miyagi giving the tip of the hat after Daniel wins the karate tournament. You're Obi-Wan standing in the distance nodding at Luke. You're the guide. You're the one in the position of strength. A hero is a weak character in a movie. They don't know what they're doing. They don't know what's going on and they're struggling. I think when we're struggling and we're insecure in our business, we talk about all the awards we've received and all the things we've done and we want to sell, sell, sell and tell people how amazing we are. And that can backfire because you're talking to someone else who's also the hero in their own story and you're creating distance. When you want them to draw closer. So this is just a really great tool for that. That's the thing I love about it the most. But in terms of how it plays out as a framework, when you read Don's book, Building a StoryBrand, or listen to the podcast, or if you have a chance to get the online workshop or go to the live workshop in Nashville, which there's actually— we're recording here at the beginning of April— there's actually one next week, and I get to go to Nashville in just a couple days. But everybody at that live workshop is trying to create the story of their customer's transformation. And there's 7 different pieces of that story. Um, first there's a character who, who wants something. If you think of a movie, there's always something that the character wants at the beginning. They want to, you know, find out who they are. Like Jason Bourne wants to find out who he is, and that's the thing that's kind of driving him throughout the movie. But there's a problem, there's an obstacle that's getting in the way of him doing that. Um, and there's a way that you feel about that. So a character with a problem, those are the first 2 kind of buckets of of content we're trying to create in this story, meets a guide. You know, this is when, this is when Dumbledore walks into Harry Potter's story and helps guide him to what he really wants to become. And you're the guide in your story as a business owner. So a character has a problem, meets a guide who gives them a plan. You kind of lay out what the plan is that's going to solve their problem. What it has to do with the product, it has to do with the thing that you're offering. And you call them to action. And then you paint a picture of what success looks like and what failure looks like so that you can say, you know, hey, I, here I am, I'm a guide. I have this thing to offer. This is what it looks like. You can accept or reject it. And, um, but there are stakes and here's what success looks like. So it's a really great organizing mechanism to walk through that, that narrative, um, track of, you know, your character, your, your ideal customer wants something from you. Um, like, for in your case, they want, they want law, they want law services, you know, maybe they need something trademarked, they need something done, but they don't know where to go. The problem is they don't know where to go to find somebody they can trust who like has their unique business and their heart and their creative spirit in mind. And so you show up as a guide for them and say, here's my plan for you, like, here are the services I offer, here are the things that I do, and call them to action, like schedule an appointment, um, sign up for this Project, you know, a lot— there are lawyers that sell online products like buy now, that's the call to action. And then you show them what success and failure looks like, and, and that draws people closer at the speed of relationship instead of, you know, like telling them all the things all at once or saying something like it's complicated, which disengages people immediately. Yeah.

Even if it's true. Yeah, exactly. It's not, it's not a helpful share and it's not working on solving the problem. Yeah.

Yeah, and so once you have that basic— StoryBrand calls it a brand script— once you have that all outlined, you can then take those 7 pieces and apply them in a lot of different ways. Don talks about, um, the brand script is sort of like learning to play chords on a guitar, which I resonate with this analogy, obviously, learning to play chords on a guitar. And then when you start to apply it to different pieces of your collateral in your business, it's like writing a song. So you put the chords in different order, and, um, you know, maybe on your website it's going to look different than mine in terms of You know, first we're going to start with the problem, and then we're going to start— look, like, here's what success looks like, and then maybe we'll outline the plan and then tell them what success looks like again. So, um, one of my— one of the fun parts of my job is to be able to help, help my clients create that music, I guess, to say, hey, here's how this is going to look in an email campaign, and here's how this looks when, you know, this message that we've created looks when we're going to put it on your website or on your business card or in your keynote or even in your book. You know, I You can use it to write a book. There's just so many applications, and I just love it. It just will probably keep my curiosity firing for years to come.

For, you know, which, which is probably saying something because you're, you're a person who enjoys learning and analysis and growth. You can tell. Um, but I love what you said about there, about, you know, the way that it mashes up and manifests itself differently is going to be unique depending on the needs and how a person is guiding someone, that client through the customer journey, realizing that sometimes there's a lot more education that needs to be about the problem. And that's where I always find myself in my business, because a lot of people are still even— they may need legal or what that even looks like, and they've never worked with an attorney before. So that's always a big part of, you know, what I have to be teaching in my story. And then other people are, again, they're working on that transformation of making sure they're making very clear, specific vision of not promising to be everything to everyone but promising a really discreet A to B transformation.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. It's, um, it's just fascinating. I mean, you know, Chick-fil-A uses Storybrands and they're a multi-billion dollar company. And, and I had a client a few months ago that was a, a medium who was trying to sell more tarot cards, and it worked for her. So like, it's just, it's, it's a framework that works, and, um, it's really fun and exciting to get to use it with my clients.

That's awesome. So, when, you know, when clients maybe approach you and they say, well, I've heard that in order to increase engagement or connection that I need to bore, you know, be vulnerable or I need to be authentic. Where do you think that fits into the framework in terms of, you know, I'm sharing that I'm the guide, I'm supposed to be the one in control and, you know, we know everything here. How can I be sharing things that I maybe don't have figured out or letting people see the flaws behind the veneer?

Yes, I love that. And actually, One of the reasons I decided to really just work with folks who are authors or coaches or creatives and have a story of their own to tell is because of this shift. So in the brand script, the guide section, when you're filling that out, when you're trying to figure out what goes in that area of that document, you're looking for things that you can share that, that show empathy for what your character is going through, which that's where you can be vulnerable. I've been there. I understand. I've, I've experienced this. Or you can speak with authority about some things. You need to be able to show that you are authorized and qualified to talk about the things that you're talking about. But sometimes we tip the balance too heavily in that, on that side. We want to talk, we want to prove that we know what we're talking about, and that's where we end up playing the hero a little bit too much. So there's a delicate balance there. You can talk about yourself in your business as much as you want to, as long as you do that with empathy and authority. And they both have to be there. It would be like Like if I was a nutritionist and I, you know, weighed 500 pounds and you came in and said, I just really want to lose weight. And I had empathy for that problem. Yeah, I do too. But I have no authority to back it up. I don't have a, I don't have a degree. I don't have a, you know, I just opened up this business one day. Like you have to be able to show that you have the authority to talk about the things that you're talking about. We all look at the reviews on an Amazon page when we go to buy something, right? Like that's showing that product's authority. And it really doesn't take much. It just takes a logo, a testimonial. Oh, they've worked with that company. They work with that person. That's enough authority for most people to say, oh, they know what they're talking about. I can trust them as a guide and I can step in and lean in a little closer and learn more about what they have to say. As far as I also like to talk with my clients about, they worry about telling their own story and often their own story is really integral to what they have to teach because it's something that they've been through. And it's just sort of like, you're Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz leading your little, little ragtag tribe down the yellow brick road. You're a few steps ahead of them, and that's enough authority. And obviously you have empathy for what they're going through because you're just a few steps ahead of them, and, and, and, you know, you can just guide them. So as long as you're continuing to focus on them and the problem you're helping them solve, it all works out in the end.

I love that. As long as you're continuing to focus on them, it's that reflecting, you know. People might be like, oh, that's great, you're legit, you're wonderful, So I can serve you continuously being that mirror and reflecting that back towards as to why that matters.

Yeah, one of the best. And so as far as a practical tip for people, one of the ways, or one of the, one of the things I hear about a lot is people don't know what to write on their about page. They know they need to say that they have, um, that they know what they're talking about. They want to be relatable. They want to make sure, um, you know, the, the, the person that's coming to that about page understands who they are and what they're talking about. And it ends up like in photography, for example, I always see about pages that are, I like, you know, frappuccinos and long walks down the desert. And, you know, nobody cares. Like, it only, only as it relates to me. If I like all those things, then great, and those things need to be part of your brand. But one of the best about pages I've ever seen, and I recommend people study it all the time, um, there's a leadership coach brand. His name is Michael Hyatt. Um, he does a lot in productivity and leadership, really, really great thought leader, um, especially in, you know, corporate leadership and in, in books. Actually, he used to run a really big publishing house down in Nashville. But if you look at his about page, um, the first line is, if you're like most of the readers that I work with, or most of the clients that I work with, you're probably experiencing this, this, and this, which makes you feel terrible. And you get halfway down the page before he says one word about himself. And it's his about page. But he's been through StoryBrand and it actually follows the brand script formula. He's talking about me as a character and what I want. I want to have better balance in my life. The problem is it's really hard to find that and you feel like you're trading one thing for the other all the time. And then he agitates that a little more, which makes you feel really, really bad. Well, here's what I've done. I have a family that's really great. I've been there. I know what you feel like and here's my plan. And then it just goes on from there. And it's just, his business has grown exponentially over the last 3 years. And it's just been fun to watch and to see that, you know, you can talk about yourself very little, you know, as long as you do it with empathy and authority and focus on solving people's problems. In a clear way, you're always going to be able to help the people that you're suited to help, that you're there to be a guide for.

Yeah. Oh, and I love that. And yeah, and I've seen his— I've seen some of his work and seen them working, you know, with the online kind of thought leadership. I've seen him, you know, Pat Flynn, you know, helping him sell his courses and stuff. And, um, I think what's cool there is it's such a direct— I think it's just on the opposite side of the spectrum from, you know, I think older established brands where, like, you know, if you come across like some big insurance firm website, it'd be like, we've been in, in for 100 years, you know, at Nelson and Sons. And it's just talking about that and all these things, you know, they have a, you know, beautiful old building and all this history and character, but it doesn't apply that to like, why, why would I care? What does that have to do with anything about solving my problem, right?

And you look at a website like that sometimes and subconsciously, you know, if you go to a website and you see a beautiful, beautiful picture of their building, like Are they selling their building? What does that have to do with my success? Like, that, that's confusing. And when you confuse people, you know, that story ran all the time. They say when you confuse, you lose. People have 5 seconds to get their attention, and they need to know immediately when you get on a website who you are, what you do, what problem you solve for them, and how you can engage further. So having that, like, schedule an appointment, buy now, some kind of call to action up in the upper right-hand corner, the most important real estate on your website. Is super important, and it's not pushy. It's just there if they want to call, if they want to, you know, accept that call to action. And, and having really clear language right at the top, and then if they want to scroll down, great. Like, we scroll websites to decide if we want to read them, so you don't have to word vomit everything all over the front, you know, the main part of your—

above the fold. Yeah, yeah, spread it out.

Do you want to share, like, just Clarify it as much as possible, um, and then they'll be curious, they'll want to be enlightened, and then they'll commit to working with you. That's how relationships work. And all of this is just about building relationships and helping people memorize what it is you do. So even if you're not the guide for them, they probably know someone who is, you know, who needs your help and your services. And, and they— when you can stick in their brain with the problem you solve You know, that word of mouth spreads.

So which are always the best, best clients and best way to get business. So yeah, I know for someone like me, I live and die by my referrals and they're the greatest because I know that if someone has had a good enough experience that they recommend and bring their friends and colleagues, that I'm doing my job right all across the board.

Right. Yeah, exactly. And the thing that's great about your brand, you know, we talk in marketing all the time, if you're talking to everybody, you're talking to nobody. And it's obnoxious to hear and it's really true. And when you actually have to make the decision to like say, okay, I'm putting my stake in the ground. These are the people that I'm meant to serve. That's scary, especially if you have something that's universally applicable that really could help a lot of people. You don't want to leave anybody out, but they don't feel left out. I follow Gary Vaynerchuk, who's a marketer online, and I promise I'm not his demographic.

I don't think I am either, but he's interesting. And you know what? And he is speaking to a very specific subset with a very particular style. He obviously has a whole shtick around it with the profanity and all of it. But you know what to expect and you know what he is. You can wrap your head around it.

Yeah. And he's created a magnetic brand. And like a magnet that attracts people, you have to put the things out there that attract people and you have to be willing to repel them at the same time. And when you can do that with your words, with your collateral, with the way you talk about yourself, and that's where creatives are so set up just beautifully you know, when they have a really personal style and aesthetic, especially visual artists. Like, it's either going to attract people or it's going to repel people, and that's fine. It's just not for them. But that can— you can do that with your business, with your words and everything as well. And, you know, that's what I love about your business. You, you do law for creatives, and that doesn't mean if I'm not a creative I can't learn from the things you have to teach and share. But you, you know, you put your stake in the ground and say, this is who I'm here to help, and that I think is one of the best ways to create a thriving business.

Well, thank you. I appreciate your support. I'm not paying her for that, but maybe I should be.

I will affirm it all. When there are smart people, I will affirm it all.

And do it all. But I love the image of putting your stake in the ground. And I've heard that affirmed in so many different ways of people saying like, if you're not standing for anything, you're just being like a watered-down version. Seth Godin talks about that in a lot of his his, you know, This Is Marketing and so many of others, his books and pieces. Um, and then your— isn't it so good? Oh, it's so good. I watched a live of his yesterday. I guess he was like— hasn't been on Instagram for a while and his people like set it up because he doesn't like do like any of that tech. But I was just like total fangirling that I'm like, I am watching Seth Godin with only like another 100 people. But it was— yeah.

Oh, I'm here for that. I'm so glad you said that. I've done all of his courses. I love him so much.

Yeah, well, FYI, he's back, guys. You know, Eminem, he's shady, he's back, back again. So make sure you go on Instagram and follow Seth Godin. He is back with his cute glasses and his little bald head, um, that you just want to rub. And yeah, like a lucky Buddha. So, um, but yeah, I love that. Well, you have some tips that you wanted to share with us specifically on how people can do a better job of doing this, and I, I especially would love to, you know, hone in on that for my creatives because as I'm thinking about this framework and how You know, I think about what if someone has like your experience, that they're a photographer and they're like, this all sounds wonderful, I love this, but like how am I supposed to differentiate and really solve and tell that story when I, I provide a service that a lot of other people provide? And I, and I'm good at it and I'm trying to work on that, you know, mind work, mindset game, but you know, what does that really look like?

Yeah, well, I would say in a practical way, when I was a photographer, one of the best pieces of advice I was, I was given, and it kind dovetails in with this thing we've been talking about is that you want to show the work that you want to do. And I, as a photographer, got so mad when I was getting like huge family groups calling me because it was one of my worst things, or like newborns. I woke newborns up and I, and I realized very quickly I probably am not a newborn photographer, but I had them on my website. And so I took them all off and the only thing I had on my website is smiley happy humans in families, in groups, creatively, lovingly interacting with each other, like very lifestyle. And then I started to get the kind of clients that I wanted. So that idea of deciding who you are and what kind of business you want to have and how you show up for them is something— is work that you're going to need to do. And I encourage everybody that I work with to do that. Like, you know, great, like if you want to do an online course, awesome, this is what it takes to do that. Is that the kind of business you want to run? Or is it more engaging and wonderful for you to work one-on-one with people? Great. Like, let's build that kind of business. Like, you need to know what kind of business you actually want to have. Like, um, a friend of ours, Tasha— you know Tasha— I was talking with her at Alt, and, you know, we were kind of talking through some of her business stuff and, and some of the ideas she had. And she finally said, you know, I could sell prints all day, but I don't want to sell prints. It's like, wait, don't do it.

Don't have them listed then. Then don't be doing it.

Do it like great. And she had taken them off her site at that point, but it was like, yeah, like don't do things just because other people are doing them. Figure out who you are. And as a guide, know how you empathize with the people you really want to help and, and, and how, you know, and then talk about the authority that you have to help them. So that got a little long. That's not a good listicle. So I'm going to start with this. The first thing you need to do is just make sure that guide piece. Remember that you're not the hero, your customer is the hero. And if you can just latch onto that idea, um, you're not the hero, your customer is the hero, and, and position everything you do, everything you say with that in mind, that's going to make a huge difference in your business.

The other—

the next thing I would say is, um, once you have that sort of nailed down, figure out a very clear, direct call to action that you can offer people, and, and it needs to be on your website. So Donald Miller has a really great series called 5 Minute Marketing Makeover. If you just Google 5 Minute Marketing Makeover, or like with the number 5, or even 5 spelled out, it's a really great free resource I'd encourage people to watch, especially if you're having trouble with your website. But one of the things he talks about is that thing I mentioned earlier, there needs to be a direct call to action in the upper right-hand corner of your website. It's the marry me button. It's the, you know, shop now, buy, register, schedule an appointment. Um, even if nobody ever clicks it, like I have some clients that really do have— they're more authors and they don't really offer consultations and they don't feel like they need to have that button. Excuse me. But just having it there calms visitors' minds down that they know how to get in touch with you if they really need to.

That is so interesting. It's a psychological thing. They just need to know that they're like, what am I doing here? And what's the end game? Yeah.

It's part of that plan. Like we need concrete steps to be led down the path. We need to know 1, 2, 3, what's next. I mean, there are instructions on the side of a Pop-Tarts box. We should know how to cook a Pop-Tart. And yet there are instructions there because the human mind needs to know, like we get anxious if we don't know what to do next. And you can take that psychology and use it in your marketing collateral as well. Like you give me a call. We set up a customized plan for you. Start enjoying your business again. It can be as simple as that. 1, 2, 3, right on a site. Um, so that's important. And then, you know, have that direct call to action, but you also need some sort of secondary call to action, some sort of transitional call to action, whether it's a free PDF, whether it's a quiz that helps people know. Um, we love those Buzzfeed quizzes, right? So like if you can have, if you have some sort of business where someone can learn something about themselves, create a quiz and have them log in to get their results with their email address. Um, a podcast is a really great transitional call to action, right? Like, hey, come learn more about me and what I teach, listen to my podcast. And then within that, if you have any downloads or things like that, you get on that email list and then you can follow up with them and continue to build that relationship and continue to provide value. So remember that you're the guide, not the hero. Have some sort of direct and then transitional call to action. And then the main thing too, I, well, I guess the last thing I would say is, um, just keep in mind that idea of what it takes to be a magnetic brand, that you need to be willing to repel people as well as attract people, and that it's okay. It's scary. It's really scary, but you're only one person and you can't be the guide for all the people in the world. Like you're, you're really suited for a specific specific group of people, and being willing to help those people is, is a service to them. I used to, when I taught voice, I used to teach voice lessons as well as choir, and it was really fun to just teach that small handful of kids that I really resonated well with and could help them set goals and help them really like bring their voice out in a way that they wanted to. You know, they wanted to audition audition for the musical. They wanted to make the choir. That was really fun to work with that small group of kids, but I wasn't the right voice teacher for all the kids in my choir classes during the day, and I had to be okay with that. Not only that, I didn't have enough time to teach voice lessons to 120 kids. I had only time for those 10. So as you're building out your business, I think keeping that sort of thing in mind is important, that you only have so much capacity to run this business that you're running, to do this work that you're doing in the world. What do you want that to look like? And then be willing to attract the people that you most want to work with by speaking directly to them.

Oh, I love that. You know, we, we hear so much about the abundance mindset, which I totally believe in, and having an appropriate respect for energy and value. And we can— so many of us can be in the same space, but we also need to balance that with a scarcity, that there is a finite amount of resources, of time, of energy. And you know what, like Greg McKeown talks about in Essentialism. Every time you say yes to something, it's a no to something else. And when you hire that client, um, you're saying no, even if you are like, well, like, I don't have anyone, you know, banging down my door. But you might, you might next week, or you might next month. And now you, you've already booked, you've already done this. And so you got to think about those options.

That's been a huge lesson for me actually in starting this business. Um, my husband had lost his job, and it was very much a whoever's knocking at the door, I'll, I'll figure it out. And I just learned very quickly that if you don't have white space, you know, in your life and in your business. You can't really help the people that you're meant to help if you don't keep that, if you're not willing to keep that space.

So, and hold that space for them. Yeah. And just trust that they'll, they'll come along because you're doing all these other things that Macy's been talking about. You've been putting in positioning yourself that they're going to find you. Um, and you know, your little minions are going to help people find you. And then when you, when they arrive, you want to be ready that you can work with them and really carry through on that transformation and that promise that you've been been given them.

Absolutely.

Oh, this is so, this is so good. Um, and I wanted to, I didn't want to leave without talking about, um, because everyone at Alt was raving about your roundtable that they absolutely loved. Um, so tell us a little bit about it. And we're also, you have a resource that you are going to be, um, having making available. So tell us a little bit about the elevator pitch problem for creatives and how you are addressing that.

Yeah, what we talked at the roundtable, I think the title was something like how to stop stumbling over your words when people ask what you do. Which was such a problem. And the funny thing was, I know how to do this, and I was stumbling over my own words getting ready to teach the roundtable, which was just the funniest thing the first couple days.

That's like Alanis Morissette level irony there.

It really was. It was rain on a wedding day for sure. Um, so yeah, the idea of taking those pieces of my own brand script, like what problem do I solve for people, what is my plan to help them, and what does success look like, and distilling that down into a very short sentence, sentence or two, um, that I can repeat over and over and over again and help people memorize what I do. It comes from the, the world of movies, that one-liner pitch that you, you know, have to walk in and, you know, that I think the— like Alien, somebody went in and said it's Jaws in space. Like, that's the shortest one-liner I've ever heard, but it's the thing that helps sell the script for the scriptwriter. So what I taught at Alt is that idea that, you know, you have something that you do uniquely for people. Let's help you show up as the guide right away in a conversation and get them curious about you. So there's 3 pieces to it. The first is lead with the problem you solve. And it's, it's, it's scary sometimes for people to do that. They don't want to be negative and talk about problems, but if you're not selling a solution to a problem, nobody's going to care. Like, they're not going to move forward and engage with you. Um, and, and it was interesting at Alt, this came up several times. A lot of creatives aren't selling something that's particularly a problem. Like, it's not a problem that I don't have a beautiful sterling silver necklace with the outline of the mountains that I grew up at the foot of, which was one of the people at the table. Like, that's not a problem, you're right. But there's an aspirational identity of the person who really wants to buy that product from you that you can lean into a little bit too. Nobody— I don't have a problem because I don't have a Rolex, but Rolex advertises to the aspirational identity that if I would— if I did want one, that I would want to have somebody. So either, you know, speak to the problem or the aspiration of the person that you really are uniquely qualified to help. So I— my one-liner is, most creatives and authors have a hard time talking about what they do in a way that's clear. Like some version of that. Like, that's part one of mine. Part two is, um, so I have a framework that I use to help clarify your marketing and your collateral So that's my plan for you. Like, there is an actual framework that we use. And then so your business can start growing again, so you can reach the people you want to reach, like some version of that at the end. And that's what success looks like. Or I will sometimes say, um, to help you turn followers into customers, because as an influencer, just because you have 100,000 followers doesn't mean you have $100,000 in the bank. So how do we build a business around the platform that you've created for yourself so that you can really start to you know, I don't like to say monetize, but that's really what it is. Like, how can you, um, start to get that value from the people who follow you? So, or anyway, so that's mine. So we talked a lot about that, that idea of what's the problem you solve, what's the plan you have, and what does success look like, and put that together in a statement that you can repeat every time you say you meet someone, that if you have a staff, you can have them memorize and repeat to people and turn them into a little sales staff of their own. I remember Don Miller saying that, um, he had his whole team memorize the StoryBrand one-liner and gave everybody for a month, if you came up and said, what do we do? He gave them $5. He's like, had this mafia stack of bills in his wallet. Um, and would hand that to them just to get them to memorize what they did. You can put it in your social media profile. You can, um, you can use it a ton of different ways when you're introduced as a guest on a podcast. Like, yeah, that's a great one too. Put it on your business card. Paint it on the wall of your space. Like, there's tons of stuff to do with it, and it's a really great way to unify people around your cause and to help other people explain what you do. Because I really do believe, like I said earlier, that marketing is really just helping people memorize what problem you solve, and this speaks directly to that. So the thing that I have on my website, if you go to uplightcreative.com, it'll be further down the page, or it should pop up. Is a worksheet for you to figure this out yourself, to give you some space to brainstorm. What problem do I solve? What's my plan for people's success? And what does success look like? What's their aspirational identity? Um, so that you can, you know, start to build relationships with the, with the heroes that you are meant to be the guide for.

Oh, exactly. Oh, well, that sounds just wonderful, and we'll make sure we have that link in the show notes too for you guys. So if you go to the show notes page, um, in the, in the actual podcast podcast app or the ones on my website. We'll make sure we link to that. But that's just— it sounds amazing because I love that it really is a shortened version of kind of the StoryBrand framework in terms of what's the most important in terms of where meeting people where they're at, telling them how we're going to solve that problem, and then going that bridge across. And now where do we get to, you know, how do we get to Terabithia on the other side?

Exactly. Yeah, in a really non-salesy way. Like, we— I think we all worry about selling and being salesy and being pushy, and I think that's That's that we— people say they don't like sales, and I don't think that's true. I push back on that a lot. You like not selling. You don't like not selling. Like, sales are great. You love sales. You love it when you sell things. Like, selling things feels amazing. You don't like not selling things. And sometimes we like—

you don't like standing on a stage making an offer and hearing crickets.

That's what I don't like, right? And we— and that is scary, but then you're just selling it to the wrong people. You're offering it to the wrong people. There's somebody else that needs what you have to offer. You're offering it to the wrong people, and by not offering it at all, you're experiencing the failure of not selling. So anyway, it's just—

you're never going to get going if you don't get in the arena, you know? And then you, and then you think, okay, regroup. That was the wrong offer, or it was the wrong pitch, or I didn't, I didn't quite clarify what my message was. So we got to iterate, we got to try it again. But you will never get started, you know? Wayne Gretzky, you make— you miss 100% of the shots that you don't take.

Yep. Yeah. Absolutely. And the thing that I've loved too about StoryBrand is any new product I create, any new thing that I do, I can write a quick brand script for it and I know exactly what I need to say about it. So I have one for my overall business. I have one for every single product that I create, every single, every single thing that I do. And I help my clients do that as well. And, and, you know, then you can feel more confident in what you have to offer because you know what the call to action is, you know what problem you're solving and you know what success looks like and you can talk to all those things and, and it just continues to work and help your business grow.

Yeah, and it sounds like that you are— you're making, you know, making it rain for all of your clients. So, all right, well, speaking of, if people want to learn more about you, if they want to connect with you, um, if they want Macy in their back pocket, which I'm pretty sure we all do, guys, um, what's the best way to do that?

Um, I'm on all the socials as Macy Robison, M-A-C-Y-R-O-B-I-S-O-N. Um, my company is Uplight Creative, and I have a couple social, uh, things for that too. I'm not so good at keeping up on it, but I've resolved to do better. Um, best way to reach me online is uplightcreative.com. There's a schedule an appointment button up in the right-hand corner if you want to have a quick conversation about your brand and see if there's something I could do to help. I offer group coaching, um, where we kind of work through all of this messaging stuff together in a small cohort, um, or do one-on-one strategy sessions. And then I have a couple clients that have me on retainer as well. So just lots of different options to help where I can.

Awesome, awesome. Well, one of the— those, those all sound fabulous, and I love that you are practicing what you're preaching. So of course you're going to have that call to action exactly where it should be so that people know that if they are resonating and want to have the problems that you're talking about and speaking to, um, they know where they can get help and get solutions. Absolutely. Awesome, awesome. Well, thank you so much, Macy, for joining us. This was just such a pleasure, and Again, I'm really glad that we got to memorialize all the good stuff that I know, the good work that you were doing with Alt, and we just got to expand and amplify that too to everyone else.

So, well, thanks for having me. It's just been so fun to talk to you. I really appreciate it.

Of course. Have a good day. You too. Thanks so much for tuning in today. I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. If you are interested in getting some more free resources and hearing more about what you can do to uplevel your business to make sure that you've gotten your legal foundations taken care of so that you can concentrate on honing in on your brand, on being the guide and showing up the way that you want to for your people, on solving those problems. Just like Macy mentioned, make sure that you are on my email list and you've got your hands on my freebie, which is the free legal checklist. Okay. It's kind of the one-page power sheet and it kind of gives you the bird's eye view of what you should be looking at to get your modern business legally legit. You can get that at BrittanyRettell.com/freebie. Com/checklist. Okay, so make sure you get your hands on that and check the show notes. A lot of these episodes I put in other handouts and freebies and chock full of resources for you. So if you're on my email list, you're going to get first dibs and access to all those resources, as well as to what I'm posting on, on the gram, on the social media, and making sure that you're the first to know of Legal Lives and other opportunities that you have to have access to me if you're maybe not ready to work with me one-on-one. One if you're a client. If you are and are at that point in your business, I'd love to chat with you about what that looks like, timeline, pricing. It's always my goal to make sure that an interaction with me is not a surprise, that you know what to expect, that you're— you have the balls in your court, and that you don't have any surprise billing. You can always book a free 15-minute no-pressure consult call with me at brittanyratelle.com/services, and all these links are going to be in show notes here. Thanks so much for joining me today and have a fabulous day. And remember that you are a real business owner, so make sure you own your business in every sense of the word.

Thanks.