Living with Real Comfort and Joy with the Paperdolls

This is Law and Wit, episode 29, Living in Real Comfort and Joy with the Paper Dolls Band. Welcome to Law and Wit, Creative Counsel for Entrepreneurs. I'm your host, Brittany Rettell, mother of 4, entrepreneur, naptime lawyer, and attorney for creative entrepreneurs. I'm here to share inspiration and action so that you can tackle your business blocks and confidently own your business in every sense of the word. Thank you so much for being here. Merry Christmas, everyone. And if it's not Merry Christmas when you're listening to this, then hashtag sorry, not sorry. Because guess what? We could all use a little bit more Christmas spirit and Merry Christmas in our life. So there you go. That's just a bonus for you. We have a really cool episode today where I get to interview an actual live performing band. These are 4 talented, super talented musicians who are all sisters, and they're in a band together called the Paper Dolls. You might also know them by the Redhead Express. That's a name they used to be using, and now they're rebranding. But it's Kendra, Larray, Alyssa, and Megan, and they've performed in more than, you know, all 50 states, 3,000 shows. They've 3 million YouTube views, so they're the real deal. They just got done singing at the White House for the Christmas open house. So they're wicked talented, wicked smart, and they've done such an incredible job of walking the walk on a real creative entrepreneurial journey in terms of now they're managing their own brand and their business and taking stuff on the road, and they do it together as a family. Now they've got husbands involved and siblings involved. And they just have such a cool perspective on really going for your dreams and what that looks like. So even if you're not a musician or performing artist, I think you're going to get a lot from today's episode, especially in the realm of, you know, what does it really mean to, you know, how does fear work and being afraid and really going for your dreams? And what do you really need and not need to go for it and make stuff happen? How do you work in small spaces or in stress spaces with people, especially with family members, in order to make your dream happen? And, and then what is it like being part of the in the music industry in 2018, now 2019. So at the end, I'm gonna share their new Christmas single of theirs, which is really cool. So stay tuned for that and some, obviously, some details about where to find them and all the amazing stuff they're doing. So thanks so much, guys, for being here, being part of the podcast. Without further ado, let's talk to The Paper Dolls. All right, welcome back, listeners. I am so excited to share our interview today. I have not one amazing creative entrepreneur, but I have 4 super talented women on today. That are from Paper Dolls, and they're an incredible band, and they're just doing wonderful things. They're actually on tour right now, so I am literally Skyping them while they are under a tent, a gazebo, with their tour bus in the background in Florida. So these, these girls are actually walking the walk, and so I'm really excited to have them on and for them to share a little bit about their creative journey with you guys. So welcome to the podcast, guys.

Thank you.

Thank you for having us.

Thank you. Okay, well, um, can you guys introduce yourselves and then, um, kind of tell us a little bit about your, um, your kind of your origin story of, you know, who you are and how you guys got to be doing what you're doing, you know, the, the all-around family band.

We'll start on that.

Well, I'm Larray. I'm the banjo player. I am the second oldest. We are all siblings. There are 7 kids in the family. So I play banjo, play a little bit of acoustic, and I sing some harmony. And I don't know, I got a banjo in Anchorage, Alaska when we were growing up there and we kind of just all accumulated instruments till one day we're like, hey, we got a band, why not do something with it?

I'm Alisa. I'm the third oldest of the girls. I play the fiddle and I sing most of the low harmonies and I sing some lead. And I just always wanted to play the violin, so. I would say they saw a violin when I was like 6 and I want a violin, Mom! So she finally got me one.

Awesome.

I'm Megan. I am the youngest of the girls and I got the biggest instrument. I play the upright bass and I love it. I, I remember seeing an upright bass on TV when I was really young. I had no idea what it was. I thought it looked so cool and I said, I'm going to play that someday. And I did.

And you made it happen.

Yes, she wouldn't let anybody else touch it. No, I wouldn't.

Her bass actually has a name.

Yes.

No, my bass's name is Eddie.

Eddie.

Yep. Yes. My name is Kendra. I'm the oldest, and I play acoustic guitar and some keys, and I do the lead singing and, and a lot of the writing. I'm awesome. I'm the band leader, I guess they call me.

We call her the boss lady.

I like, I like the boss. She's the boss lady, the, the boss 'Hey babe,' and you're probably fine with that, uh, when times are great. And then when there's a problem, you're like, 'Are you sure there isn't anyone else who's going to raise their hand on this?' I'm good.

You can keep it.

Um, L kind of started us off, and you guys jump in, uh, if I missed stuff. But yeah, we're— we grew up in Palmer, Alaska, and there are 7 kids in our family. One of our brothers is serving a mission for our church, and so he's He's not with us right now, but he used to play electric guitar for us and did our videography and photography.

Most of our music videos online were done by him.

Yeah, that's Sean. So other than that, we have the 6 of us siblings, and we have an electric guitar player from Nashville who's very talented with us. And we started out playing around Alaska, playing at nursing homes and Friday markets, folk festivals, and wherever we could play. It wasn't really something I think that we anticipated being as big as it's become. It was just sort of a way for us to do something together. We all loved music. My mom taught us piano.

Well, it's funny that you say that though, because like in Alaska, I always had that vision that it was going to be something huge, even though we were terrible, you know, back in the beginning.

We thought we were pretty good though.

See, that's funny because like I— this is Kendra— I always wanted to do something with music, but I did not envision the family. I was embarrassed by the family. I was 17 and we suck. So I was not that visionary.

And Lorraine and I— and Alisa, go ahead.

I was going to say, I think you and I were both more like, we're going to get really good and it's going to be awesome.

We'll be famous someday.

I had big dreams in my head. I was 14, I think, when we left.

Yeah. And this is Megan. I was 11 when we left, so I really had no idea what was going on. I was just along for the ride. I thought, oh dang, we've got an RV.

This is cool.

So yeah, we had just built— we'll backtrack just a little bit. We just built our dream home in Alaska. We all helped to build it and we had a big open house party. And then 6 months later, we, we had decided that we wanted to go on the road. We had prayed a lot about it and decided that this is what we wanted to do before I went to college and things sort of started to change. So we sold our house and everything in it pretty much. And your big beautiful house that you guys had just finished.

Yeah.

All the brand new furniture, all of my dad's tools, all of our fishing gear. That was a big thing for him to give up.

We all saved like one Walmart bin, you know, those big, those big totes of, of whatever we wanted to keep, and then clothes and stuff. And we moved into the RV, and my mom started looking at other bands' tour schedules, and, and, uh, we, we'd go around to jam sessions and play for hamburgers and and whatever.

Yeah, this is Megan. I think the, the biggest thing we did in the beginning was we went down to the Ozarks and the Appalachian Mountains, kind of where the folk music of America originated, so that we could learn from the people who've been passing it down for generations.

Yeah, we kind of wanted to start at the beginning. Yeah, of music.

So we did that, and then we got a gig in Branson, Missouri. And played there for about a year and a half, and that was—

it was a great learning experience.

It was, it was a lot of work.

It was really hard work because Branson is— they've got a lot of shows, over 150 probably, and not, not as many people coming. So it's a lot of your own footwork to get anybody. So it was a really good—

advertise yourself so that people will come see you, and it might be 10 people, it might have been 100 if you're really lucky.

We literally played for 2 people sometimes. But it was a really good education.

It taught us how devoted we wanted to be, and if we were dedicated, how hard we were going to work for it. And so when we moved to Nashville after that and we met with Paul Worley, he's like, listen guys, I'll help you, but it's not easy. And we're like, it's OK. We've already experienced that.

We have already been hustling in the IHOPs trying to get the seniors to see our show. We have humbled ourselves.

So.

Yeah, if you think that we're not ready to go to work, then you're mistaken.

We'll occasionally stop by a restaurant, and my dad will joke about, all right, girls, get your instruments out. We got to go do a teaser.

No. In a nutshell, that's sort of the beginnings of how we got started.

Yeah. After Branson, we decided that we wanted to go a little bit further with the music and get more into the country market. So we moved to Nashville, Tennessee, which is where we met, like Larray mentioned, producer Paul Worley, who produced the Dixie Chicks and Lady Antebellum and lots of other— yeah, lots of other amazing artists.

Yeah, we wanted to really be serious as artists, and, um, so Nashville was a great next step for us. And that's kind of where we've been up to this point. Um, we moved out to North Idaho a few years ago, and we've sort of been splitting time working on Nashville and then, and then being in Idaho and based up there.

So yeah, which is where I got to run into you guys, which is so nice and lucky for me that I get to have such amazing talent close in my backyard. So, so tell me about just the experience of packing everything up and getting in the RV. You know, I'm just thinking of, you know, there's, I think a lot of people, especially now, are kind of, they kind of romanticize the idea of like, oh, I'm gonna like live on the road and be like, you know, a nomad, and I'm going to see all these things and have, you know, a minimalist, um, but like where the rubber meets the road is like, yeah, like you said, one Walmart bin. And, um, especially being how many people packed into that RV, like what did that look like?

Well, in the beginning it was the 7 of us kids and mom and dad and our dog. Um, we had a chocolate lab, so, um, So there were like 9 of us and a dog in the beginning. Now there's about 16 of us because we have added children to the mix and husbands.

I mean, I was only— Megan, this Megan— I was only 11, like I said, when we left. And, you know, at first the idea was really cool. Oh, we're gonna get an RV, we're gonna go to the lower 48, you know, because we I've always lived out west and mostly in Alaska, you know. But when it came down to it, it hit me, oh, I'm going to be leaving everything that I know and I'm comfortable with, my friends. And I cried a lot, you know. It was really hard. It wasn't, it wasn't all that easy. But obviously looking back, it's definitely worth it.

So interesting to hear everybody's little take, you know. It's different. Um, I'm— this is Kendra— and being the oldest, I was I graduated high school and I was— I had a down payment on my room in college at BYU-Idaho, is where I was going to go, and I was going to go and hang out with my friends. And I sort of had this tug of war between myself for a lot of years, I feel like, between not wanting to miss out on what my friends were doing and not wanting to miss out on what my family was doing. And so I decided not to go to college. I did a year online so that I could be on the road. But it was sort of that, oh, I don't know which is going to be better, you know. But I'm really glad I stuck with what we were doing and chose to do this. It's been amazing. Yeah.

Oh, you said—

how did you—

how did I feel?

Yeah, yeah.

How did you feel?

Um, I was honestly— I don't think I realized how lucky I was to live in Alaska at the time because I was like, oh, I've always wanted to go to the Lower 48. Let's go, let's just pack up and go. I'm like, I didn't have to clean the house anymore, just the RV because it was a lot smaller. We had a lot of tile floor in that house, but it was beautiful. Um, I didn't have as many, um, friend connections that were like really secure, so I wasn't really super sad to leave all my friends. I was kind of excited for an adventure. Um, you know, I mean, being on the road for 11 years, I'm kind of at that place where I'm like, you know, it was— it'd be nice to have a house. And I still want to travel, but, you know, I'd like to have a place to settle my family in a little bit more and then go on our weekend trips, you know. But, but it's really, I guess, taught me a lot about— I feel like it's brought our family closer together. There's not as much room for bickering and for hating on anybody.

Or, you know, yeah, I'm sure things have to be worked out, you know, that you don't have the— yeah, you don't, you don't have the illusion, you know, of being able to go hide out in your own space. And kind of avoid conflict.

Yeah, you have to deal with it.

You just kind of hash it out. What's wrong? Okay, we don't hate each other, so how are we going to get through this?

We can't afford to. There's no secrets. Somebody's got a problem, everybody knows, and then you watch each other work it out too, which I like because it helps you create this strong bond.

I think it may be— I don't know how our kids see it yet, but hopefully it is teaching them that they can, you know, communicate better and learn how to work through their problems that they might have with each other eventually when they're bigger, you know.

So when we left Alaska and moved into the RV, honestly, like, I was having this conflict inside myself about our house that we just built because after we moved into it, I remember feeling restless and it was this really weird thought that I kept having of like, they're supposed to do something bigger that's going to influence the world. And I was like, wow, that's kind of bizarre. That's kind of ridiculous. Like, who would think that, right? And but I just, I couldn't get rid of it. So I remember the night that my mom came to me with the idea. She's like, what if we sold everything and, and bought an RV and just went and studied music? And it hit me. I was like, that is what we're supposed to do. So honestly, for me, selling everything was freeing and moving into the RV felt like a fulfillment of that purpose. And I just, I was excited.

I didn't think she was serious. I don't actually think I really believed her entirely.

I was like, I don't know, I'm just following my feelings.

It was definitely a freeing experience, like selling everything and realizing that you weren't tied down anywhere to anything. It was really cool.

That was cool.

To stuff, yeah, I mean, what a cool opportunity to just kind of reinvent what your life looks like and really decide what's important and what's not. You know, get rid of, get rid of a lot of those shoulds, you know, what should we be owning or what should we be doing with our time and our money and our mortgage and whatever, you know?

Yeah, it's true. I mean, when you're on the road, you don't have to spend time on all of your things because you don't have as many things. You have a lot more time to spend on people and on experiences. I loved it. I've loved it.

That's so cool. That's such a cool perspective you guys have.

Thank you.

And so tell me about how it's worked out now that you have added to the family band. So how many of you are married now?

Yeah, so you guys are married? Yeah, Ken, this is Kendra. I'm married and we— my husband runs our sound and we have a 3-year-old and a 1-year-old. And Alisa is married.

Yeah, he— my husband Cody, he runs our merchandise table and he helps drive the bus.

And both of the men are— and they also have— fixing the trailer.

Yeah, if you hear any like drilling, they're trying to quietly fix it.

That's part of the audio experience. I mean, if NPR can get away with doing like sound effects, guys, like we can handle that here. So don't worry about that.

That's the real deal.

So if you want to know what it's like on the RV right now, always fixing something.

Always, always.

The guys are—

yeah, Cody and Lisa have a 3-year-old and a 1-year-old also, and Larray has a 4-year-old boy. So there are 5 kids, 2 in-laws, and, uh, and our electric guitar player. And our mom is kind of back— my dad just this last year went back home and started doing real estate, and so my mom's kind of in transition. She's flying back home to see him, he's flying out to see her, and she's helping watch our kids until we either slow down a little bit or get a couple nannies to replace her.

So she's, yeah, kind of playing musical Mary Poppins to you guys.

Yeah, yeah, Superwoman is amazing. So Dad's down here right now and they're on a date for all day.

She sounds like an amazing woman. Yeah, so, so I mean, when you guys were dating, you know, people and getting pretty serious, who your, your partner is now, um, I mean, did you let it be known that, hey, this might be part of the deal, is that you got to come and get on the RV and Definitely part of the conversation.

And that's been an interesting thing too, is, you know, before anybody's married, it was like, how is this going to work? Well, Cody, does it fall apart when somebody gets married?

My husband had to come on the road because if we wanted to see if it would work, he was like debating on either going to China for his work or just quitting his job and coming on the road with us. So he literally quit his job and left on good terms. But he's like, oh, I want to find out if it's going to work. I've got to just go.

And so He lived with us for a month, 2 months.

Yeah, they joked that they lived together before they were married, but I mean, it was like him sleeping next to his future father-in-law.

Yeah, I mean, I— yeah, we can, we can imagine in the family cabin here, like, like you said, there are no secrets. So yeah.

Oh no. Yeah.

And then my husband, um, grew up in Tennessee. We met at church there, and we happened to not be touring quite as much. We had about 3 months home. And we had met a year previously and didn't hit it off, but anyway, we started dating and we were fast. I think we decided we wanted to get married in about 2 weeks, and then we were married 4 months later. And so, yeah, but he was— both men have been really supportive. It always takes some time for the new person to figure out how they fit, and you know, it's a lot to ask. Yeah, as a man to to figure out how to contribute so they don't feel like they're just along for the ride. Um, and then, you know, too, you've got a lot of heads. You know, I'm, I'm sort of the head of band stuff, and then you've got my parents, and my dad was on the road with us, and then you've got my husband and Elise's husband. Everybody wants to be the head of their family, so there's definitely a lot of that that you have to work out of how to respect to the space and We've learned to separate it a little bit by meetings.

Like when we have meetings, we're like, this is a band meeting, or we're going to have some family time this day. And so we split off as individual families. Yeah, organization is key. Communication, organization.

We're always strategizing and organizing our days and our weeks. And we have band meetings.

And we organize our business plan. Like everybody has a specific role in the band. And with that title, we have to respect their authority. That's what we do.

No, I think that's really smart that you guys have set out boundaries because without it, because you are, you live together, you work together, you're related. I mean, it would be really hard for all of that to meld together so that you don't feel like you ever get a break and then conflict from one area just bleeds into everything else. Yeah.

It has definitely been a trial and error. Yeah, trial and error. I mean, I remember days in the beginning when we would try to run rehearsals, and my, my dad would try to run a rehearsal, and my mom would try to run the rehearsal, and I would try to run the rehearsal. And finally we'd all end up just crying and yelling at each other. And finally, you know, you had to figure out, okay, so-and-so's not good at this, someone says not good at this, someone says good at this, until everybody sort of had their spot. Um, and then watching our husbands sort of bounce around until they found, okay, well, this feels like I could do this part.

Yeah, you're trying to—

yeah, it's definitely a Just things. It's a learning process.

It's a learning process. I mean, we're still, still in that process. There's always something to improve upon. I remember, well, especially as running a band, you're running a record label in a sense. There are so many parts to the machine that you have to find somebody to fill. And so you, every, all the time you're like, okay, who can fill this one? And who wants to? Who's able to?

He's the best at it.

First time to do it.

Yeah, definitely. Well, talk to me a little bit about— and for those who may be here, might be as familiar with the way kind of the modern music business works, because it has changed a lot, you know, in the last few decades, obviously. So how are you guys doing in terms of now? Are you signed with anyone? Do you have representation? Are you just kind of managing everything yourself? Or give me kind of, you know, give us kind of some insight into how that looks like for you guys.

We've always been self-managed. We would love to get a manager, but it's just tough trying to find the right balance, the right connection of somebody who sees, has the same vision as you do. So we've sought legal help for sure, dealing with contracts, and that's kept us out of a lot of trouble. I highly recommend you get somebody that knows how to look at a contract and say, well, you have an out, or you don't have an out, or they're asking too much. And so we sought a lot of help in that way, but we've always self-managed, and that's such a tricky thing. We've, you know, been courted by some labels, not major labels, but independent labels, and nobody, nobody in the industry knows what's going on anymore, you know.

And they're all making it up too.

Yeah, right. The internet has changed everything so drastically because you can You can do things on your own terms. It takes— you have to do it. You have to work at it.

There's also a lot less money in the industry because used to you would sell a CD for $15 a pop and now you're selling a song for 99 cents.

Well, you're not even selling the song hardly because of streaming, you know. And, yeah, and piracy. And so you're not making money the way you used to.

You have to find alternate ways. To make money and they're out there, but with how constantly changing the internet is, it's hard to keep up with.

It's hard to keep up.

Yeah.

And so most labels, most major labels want to sign you with a 360 deal where they own everything. And so an artist really doesn't start to make money for several years if they're successful artists. And many artists, majority of artists get dropped. Their album gets shelved. It never sees the light of day. We've been very careful about labels. I wouldn't be opposed to a label if the right deal came along, but I think we're better off keeping it in-house until we know we've got somebody that's really got our back. That's our best interest. That really is up to date with how things are working.

Yeah. Yeah.

Very cool. You guys have been— You can explain a little bit about you have rebranded or shifted a little bit in your work and kind of what the music that you have been doing and now kind of what you're working on now. Tell me a little bit more about that.

Yeah, so when we first started on the road, we started out as a band called Redhead Express, and that's what we've been up until this last year. We just started the process of rebranding into a band called Paper Dolls, and it was a decision we thought about for a long time, and it's been interesting to see the feedback. And some people are like, oh man, you go! Other people, I don't get it. And But it's, you know, still in transition. The reason we did that— you guys jump in and help me out— but Redhead Express is sort of where we grew and learned, and it's primarily a cover band and a variety show.

And a big family, kind of a family act.

Yeah, it started out family.

A lot of history of us being a whole family and just kind of a lot of people, and it gets confusing.

It was more, more of a bluegrass sound, but the way that the music is shifting, we're writing our own music, and it's a little bit more folk-pop, folk-rock sound. And we just kind of needed a fresh start, I guess, from what's out there historically to sort of say this is, this is what we want to focus on, and it's our own music. It's what we're passionate about and how we feel like we can be an influence for good, I guess, in the world and, and really put out our message and be true to ourselves. And not be sort of swayed by the industry.

So we're excited about it. Yeah, which is a hard thing to do. I mean, I think most people would say that anything in the entertainment industry is challenging, and it's hard to be able to be yourself and to push back on that against people who do want to maybe commoditize, or they want to just fit with the latest trends, say, or what they say people— that's what they want and they pay for. But yet you guys are, you know, you're fighting the good fight, which is a lot of times the harder fight of putting out the music and having the kind of look and feel and everything from where you're going to perform and what you're going to wear with the way that's true to your values.

Yeah, absolutely.

Right. That's what we kept running into with Redhead Express is people just wanting to change us. Like several times, you know, they wanted to take Kendra, the lead singer, and just seperate her from the rest of the band because it's more marketable. Or you shouldn't have kids because— or you should tour without them, or you shouldn't mention that you're Christian, or—

all the dos and don'ts. And we're like, man, who are we?

What do we do? I think it's so interesting in an industry that is so strong about be yourself and express you and women's empowerment. But it's so unsupportive of all that, really. It's kind of, you know, unsupportive of motherhood and all these things.

And so the real meat of, you know, doing what you feel is you want to in your life and having that still look like that, which you guys are showing that it's absolutely possible. You just need to have an open mind and be flexible.

Yeah, flexibility is key and work really hard.

It's A lot of work.

We have rewritten our band's vision, our band's goals so many times. We're like, this is exactly what we're going to do. And then we're like, oh, nope, that didn't work. Let's change it.

We got a label. We're going to go with this. And then that didn't work out. Back to plan A or plan B or plan G. Yeah, exactly.

Well, tell me, you guys just had a cool gig in DC. Tell us about that.

DC?

Well, it's kind of a funny story because, um, this is Megan, and I do most of the social media for the band along with our mom. And a fan of ours sent us a message like back in June, I think, saying, hey, you guys should check into this. I saw that you can apply to play at the White House for their Christmas holiday open house. And I thought it was kind of a joke. I was like, are you sure that's for real? Because I don't know, it seems too easy, you know? But I looked into it, I googled it, and I found this application that you could fill out. And so I'm like, okay, what, you know, what do we have to lose? We have time open when they want entertainment. So I filled out the application and sent it off, and they said we'll get back to you in October if we if we want you. And I didn't even tell—

no, nobody knew she did that. My mom sent us an email like a few weeks ago saying we're playing the White House. What? What are you talking about?

I didn't even read it.

And I heard Megan talking to my mom and our mom, and I, I heard White House.

And like, and they're like, oh, we got this.

Like the White House, not like a restaurant outside of, you know, in Missouri or something. Like, we're just, we just want to make sure we're on the same page here.

After we had announced, I was talking to my grandpa on the phone and he's like, so you had this gig at the White House?

I said, yeah. Oh, that's, that's cool.

Where is it? I was like, um, DC, Pennsylvania Avenue. He's like, oh, the White House? I thought you meant it was like someplace called the White House.

You played at the White House? What?

No, to find out, we met the guy, um, who— one of the guys who helped pick us And they had 500 applicants. And they watched thousands of videos. And they chose 50 to be in this event. And so we're one of those.

That's awesome.

So obviously, you guys are a big deal.

Yeah.

And you're amazing.

Naturally. Obviously.

It was fun because that was the very first Paper Dolls show.

As they say in the movie, we're infamous. We're more than famous.

Yeah, exactly. You guys, you're an overnight success.

I know.

So we were, we were joking about that before we started recording. So tell me, tell me the great, uh, the music joke about overnight success.

Oh yeah, well, the joke in the industry is it takes 10 years to be an overnight success.

Yeah.

And I, I was telling you, I've been up for 11, so when we had been, um, working with Paul Worley on our, our CD that he produced for us, um, he, he was talking about how he discovered Lady Antebellum and how they've been singing in a bar and they've been playing for like 10, 11 years and they finally had everything together, had all the songs, and then he cut the record and they were a smash hit.

He said, "Another overnight success, guys." Yeah, meanwhile they're like, "Hahaha, that's super funny. Wait, what percentage is this guy getting again?" Yeah. I know, right? But I'm sure it's all part of the deal. Yeah. For sure. Well, you guys kind of touched on some of the things that are— that have worked for you in terms of working with your family, especially being in small spaces. But are there other challenges that have come just by the nature of being in a creative field, you know, especially now that you're moving towards creating your own music and the challenges that come with that and trying to be, you know, original and share, you know, art and share good art that you're proud of. You know, what does that process look like for you guys, or has it been an easy one?

Definitely challenging. As the writer, I feel like for me the big challenge is sort of being creative and being true to myself and not feeling the pressure to— well, like for instance, a lot of times I'll go into a co-writing session in Nashville and we'll get started on something that I kind of like, and the other writer will say, "Well, I don't know, that's just not commercial enough. I can't really envision Martina McBride singing this." And so there's sort of this mindset of everybody trying to keep up with the Joneses or, you know, what's out there, and I don't think that's the way to go about it. I mean, that's one way to do it, and there's people that are making a lot of money doing that, but I can't, as an artist, be true to myself and write that way. And so finding that balance of not feeling— not writing under the pressure of, well, this has got to be commercial enough, instead trying to write under, well, this is what moves me and I hope this moves other people. Exactly.

That's what music is about. We're trying to get everybody writing more because some, some of us have written a little bit, a little bit. Some more than others, and, and Kendra's written the most. So we'd like to start writing.

That's a bit of our focus this year is, is writing as a group.

And I think what we've done to kind of hone our sound, if that's partially what you're asking, is we've listened to and learned a plethora of different styles of music, and we'll just learn it and create our own version of it wherever we're at in the process. And sometimes we'll pick something that we like that's old or that's kind of new, or we'll take a top 10, whatever's on the Billboard top 10, and one that we feel like we could sing, um, cover, we'll cover it and create our own style. And through that process, we've learned to imitate different styles. Like, for me, I've learned to play the banjo more like a synth or a guitar than a banjo, or like the keys. And so it creates this different sound.

Or I take a fiddle and I make it sound like the electric guitar or the synth.

Sounds too.

Yeah, it's kind of interesting. Yeah, and just kind of keep it, you know, very, very creative even in the use of the sound of the instrument.

Yeah, yeah, right. Because with our instruments, like, the, the 4 of us girls all play acoustic instruments, and, you know, that kind of screams bluegrass country. But when we cover a pop song or an R&B song, you know, then it makes a really unique sound. Yeah, it changes. We're still being true to ourselves but we're having fun at the same time. And then we add guitar keys and the drums in the background, and it's epic.

Oh, that's awesome. That's just— it's, I mean, such a dream that you guys just can create such amazing music. So I know it's going to inspire a lot of people to be like, you know what, I want a banjo for Christmas. I—

yeah.

Tell them to repaint it. It's okay to sound awful at the beginning.

You know, anything, violin, screeches for a while, you get the hang of it.

You know, I'm enjoying especially this time of year because it's around Christmas time, you know, everyone posting their kids at like, you know, their 5th grade band concerts. And I'm always like, bless, bless those 5th grade band teachers because yikes, those kids are awful.

I know. Well, you know, it's so funny because I think about all the people in the beginning of our music career that that told us to, oh, just keep doing it, you guys are sounding great. And I know we didn't sound great.

I know, right?

But it was— just gave that little extra boost to just keep going. Maybe I'm not that bad, right?

I'm good.

I, I got that lick on the mandolin.

I'm doing all right.

That's right. I remember when we left Alaska the first time, um, you know, we were young, we were pretty horrible. And we came back after a few years and did a show and One of the guys that had first kind of helped us get started said, man, I was really worried about you guys when you left, but you've done all right for yourself.

We were like, thanks for that backhanded compliment. I appreciate it.

But it did feel good.

They were so, so concerned for us.

I can't blame them. But I look at that and it gives me hope for other people that I see who are just starting. I'm like, you're just starting. It's okay. It's okay to be bad in the beginning. Make a lot of mistakes because The more mistakes you make, the more you'll get right, the more you'll learn.

We were pretty cheesy for a while too. We did some stuff that we're like, but we have video.

I was going to say, if you— if you— if it exists somewhere on YouTube.

Yeah. Some things that people have posted that you can't get off, you're like, man. But yeah, it's amazing though, because you learn so much and you get cheesy for a while and people tell you to do stuff. You do it and you think, man, why did we listen to them?

And that's why it takes years to sort of try things and figure out where you fit and just have to keep going.

There's not only the, the audio, the sound that we're trying to make that's unique, we also had to create a look that was unique, and we couldn't have done that by ourselves. No, we— well, we grew up in Alaska where, you know, Carhartts are like—

are— yeah, it's, it's— yeah, are the, the woodsman tuxedo, you know, the That's right.

Yeah, and if you brush your hair, then you put some lip gloss on, then you are dressed up.

Yeah, that's what it must be, your anniversary or something. Look how fancy you are.

Yeah, I love it. Nashville, and we ended up— we were fighting over, you know, clothing shopping because we're like, I don't know what looks good. It was just a miserable experience, like the beginning of our band practices. And so finally we hired, um, we met this lady through Paul Worley who was a wardrobe What does she call herself? A stylist. Wardrobe stylist. And so she connected us to our makeup and hair artist. And between the two of them, they helped us to create our image and figure out who we are as individuals and how we can make that edgy and modern at the same time.

Very cool.

And it's taken us 7 years, I don't know, however long we've worked with them to develop that. I've been with them for 5 years, I think. 5 years, only 5?

Wow, feels like longer, but yeah, yeah, a lot of kind of perfect that.

Yeah, but I mean, that's an important, you know, part of, um, your guys's business and, and your brand, you know. So as you guys have kind of worked on that, do you have words that you work on describing, you know, what your, what your band is and, and what it means to other people, or is that something that's kind of still in flux?

Sort of still in flux right now with the new band, but that's definitely something that we focused on, you know, for Red Express. For a lot of years, you know, especially as we're transitioning there, you know, going from bluegrass to country is how do we market this. The first transition we made, because it was the whole family, was we phased my parents out, and so then it was just mainly the 4 girls. Our brothers are all younger, they were really little.

They have a group called— they call themselves the Walker Boys.

And so we sort of separated it and called it the Walker Family featuring the Redhead Express for a while, and everything that we put out was that way until people—

the 4 girls in the front and the rest of the family in the background, you know, just little changes. Um, yeah, to describe Paper Dolls, what would you describe that as, Kendra?

And so that's— yeah, Paper Dolls were sort of, um, like I said, that's still— we're still at the beginning stages. Um, but, uh, yeah, the sound is sort of folk-pop, folk-rock. It's, um, yeah, sort of mixed.

The image is kind of European modern hipster.

Yeah, I don't know.

It's still kind of in process, which is—

but that's sort of where we're at right now is figuring out the keywords and how we want to put everything forward over the next year.

Sometimes it's hard being in that in-between stage because you're like, I just want to know. But it's half the fun too.

Yeah, it's just being, you know, open and exploring and doing all of that. So yeah, very cool. And so, you know, tell me about what, um, what does business look like, you know, for the next, um, how much do you guys have booked out or what does your tour schedule look like or, um, kind of what does your day-to-day look like for someone who's in a band like you guys?

We are on tour right now until about April, and right now that looks like we have a show Thursday, and we had a show last night, next floor, Saturday.

We had a show Thursday. I think we have a show Thursday and Saturday.

Um, so we're in Florida right now, so the day's off. We're, we're camping right now, so we've had some campfire nights. We were gonna go to the beach today, but it was 60 degrees for Florida, so we didn't go to Florida.

Just, yeah, disappointing. Come on.

Yeah. Currently, this year we're doing about 250 shows, and that is slowing down. Last year was 275.

Yeah, this year is about how much?

This year, which is almost over. By the end of this year, we'll have done about 250.

Next year, we've got a lot booked until about April. We have, like, we've got a festival that's 11 days. We'll play 3 times a day for 11 days there. We've got a lot of stuff going until about April, and then we've got some stuff scattered throughout some state fairs and things like that. We're working on shifting out west. We'd like to be more regionally focused as Paper Dolls so that we're not stretching ourselves too thin.

We have more time to rehearse and rehearse our sound and, you know, kind of solidify everything that we've been creating.

Yeah, we've been finding that as we do so much touring— touring is amazing and we're so blessed— but if we do, as we're doing so much, 250, it's barely enough time to get re- booted, you know, in between. You know, you get yourself reorganized and then you're back on the road again, and there's not as much creativity involved and progression. Yeah, so that's— as an artist, it's hard to improve.

We'd like to sort of get that balance of a little less touring.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that makes sense. You mean the advice that I hear a lot, you know, is make sure that you're not just working in your business every day, but you're working on your business. And sometimes that means saying no to opportunities, you know, even though it's hard because you're like, wait, this person is giving me money, and but I have to book less, you know, what that means, sell less stuff or book less client calls or have less concerts. But you have to zoom out a little bit so you can work on bigger picture stuff.

And there's been several transition points. I remember when we left Branson, we had to Essentially start over because we were making our money doing shows there. We had to say, okay, we're not booking any more shows here. So that we could make room for the shift to Nashville and start booking shows out on the road.

That was scary. Yes, because we had no clue.

Well, we've done that several times, and every time we want to grow, we have to— to make— you have to make space for it. If you keep doing the same thing that you've been doing, then you'll never see the growth.

Yeah, I like that a lot. You got to make space for growth.

That's one thing that a lot of people I don't think realize when you talk about this kind of a lifestyle. There are many times in your journey where you are tight and you're not sure how you're going to make it through the next month or the next 6. But if you work hard, then there's always a way and it always gets provided and you move to the next level and you're okay again. It's just part of that. And yeah, you just have to be willing to make that sacrifice. Take the risk, you know. That little leap of faith.

Pray and take a risk.

But you have to be okay with unknowns, with question marks, with discomfort, obviously. Yeah. What do you think? What's your favorite part of having people, you know, recognize and love your music? Like, what does it feel like to have fans?

Oh, wow. My favorite part is seeing how our music makes a difference for them. There's been people that we've known who've listened to one of our songs and it got them through cancer therapy or got them through depression and, or things like that. And I'm like, for me, that's why I do it. Or even just seeing someone walk into the show with kind of a sour face and then leave with a huge smile on their face. I mean, It's something small, but, but we're making a little bit of a difference. And yeah, and that's just by sharing what's in our hearts, you know. I think that's pretty cool.

I think for me there's been a lot of times, um, where things are really, really challenging and, you know, you kind of throw your hands up in the air. Well, is it even worth it? You know, why am I doing this anymore if it's this hard? And then you'll meet somebody that says, well, listening to your music has helped me to overcome this challenge or reconnect with this person or whatever. And okay, well, that's, that's why we're doing it. And, you know, yeah, it makes it worthwhile.

I think all of us connect to somebody in the audience differently. Yeah, because you'll have people come up, you're my favorite because you play the— this happened the other night, she's like, you play the violin, and I think her mom played the violin or something like that, and And she's like, and she passed away, and that's why you're my favorite, or something like that. And it's just sweet, because you may be having a bad day yourself, and then someone comes up and tells you how much you have changed their life just through your music, or your smile, and your presence. They can feel something good from your family, and that's what makes it worth it.

I mean, as hard as it is sometimes, I certainly wouldn't trade any of it. It's brought us closer together. It's made me a much more well-rounded person. I've associated with people all different faiths and backgrounds, ages, you know, things that I would never have experienced just doing things traditionally.

So I look at the way we've all grown up and the confidence, especially of our younger brothers who literally grew up in this industry. They're so confident and so talented and leaps and bounds ahead of other kids their age.

Of where we were at their age.

Yeah, and so I love it because our kids get to grow up in that.

Yeah.

And that's another thing I love about our music and performing is being able to make a difference in children. Um, there's a lot of little kids who love our music, right? And their parents love our music because of the example that we set for them, which is a cool and also very humbling. I'm like, wow, that's a lot of pressure. A lot of pressure. It gives me a lot of joy because it helps me realize that we can help to raise the next generation, you know.

That's been a big thing for me, you know, in making decisions is I think about my kids, I think about my, my young cousins and that look up and sort of idolize us in their young age. And I think, you know, it's huge, that's a huge balance in how I make decisions. Yeah, you know, how does that affect these kids?

So they're all watching you.

No pressure. No pressure. Don't screw up.

Yeah, I'm gonna do everything you do.

Exactly, exactly. So, um, well, very cool. Well, um, you know, I wanted to, um, just close. I, I wanted to share some of your music, and so, um, I think I'm— we're gonna listen to a little bit about, um, Roots. So, and then I might need to play a little bit of your Christmas song too, just because I really love it. So tell us a little bit about Roots, this song.

Roots I wrote with a writer in Nashville, Wally Wilson, and it was just about growing up in Alaska. Alaska is always, always going to have a special place in my heart. It's where I grew up, and I just, I love it. I think I'd live up there if we weren't doing this. Um, so in light of all the earthquakes, it's a good song to play right now. Um, but, uh, yeah, it talks about us building our home and then selling everything and going on the road. And, um, but, uh, sort of that's, that's where our roots are.

So, and on YouTube, music video that we took of it in Alaska.

Yep.

Flew a helicopter onto a glacier and didn't die. And then we flew over to an island that was surrounded by icebergs and they did didn't, you know, fall in and calve and drop.

They did have—

they—

one did calve, but we forgot to take video of it, which is a big bummer.

And then we hiked up the mountain barefoot and shot up there.

You can check out that video.

So yeah, the super, super rugged experience. Okay, I'll for sure link to that in the show notes so you guys can watch that. That sounds pretty incredible. Um, and then tell us about, uh, God Rescue Merry Gentlemen.

So God Rescue Merry Gentlemen, I think that's a good taste of where Paper Dolls is going sound-wise.

Yeah, very much.

Yeah, this Christmas CD we just came out with is sort of a segue CD, and it's sort of half Redhead Express and half Paper Dolls sound. And God Rest You is a lot of fun. We just had a lot of fun working that one up and sort of playing with all the ideas that we have. It's got a fun Celtic fiddle part.

One of our guitar player's friends commented on it. He said, dude, this is the most un-metal metal thing I've ever heard.

It's very true. I think it's like, yeah, if, you know, if Trans-Siberian Orchestra like took a little segue through like the Celtic Islands, like, and, you know, yeah, and then met like a cool, you know, bass guitar girl, then this would be like the baby they would have.

Yeah.

Our kids' favorite song. When the song starts playing and the little fiddle thing, my 1-year-old starts bouncing up and down in his head.

And then the raised boy, just like he can sing, I think the whole song and he can sing some harmony parts.

He sings the instrumental riffs.

Oh, it's pretty fun.

That's awesome. In our show, and I'm like, well done.

Well, well done. Yeah. Okay, aren't those kids ready to start pulling their weight? Yeah, can't you put a little— give them, you know, maybe a triangle, a tambourine, something?

I don't know, right? I'm sure I'm missing something that they could add to it.

Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure they'll be up there before you know it. Um, okay, well, if people want to hear more from you guys, learn about more of you guys, where can they find you? Where can they find your amazing music?

They can find us anywhere online, basically. We have Paper Dolls YouTube channel, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. The website is paperdollz.band.

Yes, paperdollz.band. Awesome. Yeah, and then they, and then they can hear music on there and they can listen to your guys's. And you guys have your new CD, which I've listened to and it's amazing. And Yeah, they can get more and get part of that Christmas spirit if you guys are listening at this Christmas. At other times of year, I'm sure they have other amazing music that you guys can delve into as well.

On a new album this coming spring, so stay tuned for that.

Awesome. And then if you guys— they're interested in your tour schedules on your website as well?

Yeah, website, Facebook.

Currently the tour schedule is on redheadexpress.com and Redhead Express Facebook.

Yeah, we're sort of buttoning up Redhead Express Tour this year, so they can check out that. And then paperdolls.band, as we book things, we'll have tour schedule there as well for next year and stuff.

Okay, awesome. Well, thank you ladies so much for being on today. It was so great to hear from you and just what a cool look inside just an interesting life and lifestyle that you're making. You mean you're doing it, you're making incredible art, you're sharing it with people. And you're doing it as, you know, beautiful, confident, empowered women who are doing what they love, which is just— I just think amazing.

Thank you.

Thanks for having us.

It was fun. So here is Roots from the Paper Dolls and then God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen. And as a reminder, if you haven't gotten a gift from me yet, which you're so thoughtful, I mean, wonderful, you know, you're just lovely. What I would love most of all from you is a review on iTunes, please. So you can do that by pulling up your purple icon in iTunes. And if you're listening on the iTunes podcast app, if you scroll to the bottom of Law and Wit, it'll say leave a review. You can either do just a simple star, or if you want to write something out, you do have to have a unique name. So it doesn't have to be your name, it just has to be some sort of unique name. So if it's not letting you submit, try using a different name. But that's the most meaningful thing you could do to me this Christmas season, is to leave a review for the podcast and/or share with a friend. If there's anything, whether it's this episode or another one that you've listened to, that's helped you, that's helped your business, that sparked something, that's made and helped you move forward with maybe something that was blocking you and keeping you from owning what you needed to in your business and moving forward the way you wanted to, then I would love, you know, share, screenshot, give, give me a shout out. That means the world to me as a, you know, a small woman shop who's, uh, who's trying to get this content out to the people who I know need it and who will help make them into more confident entrepreneurs. So have a Merry Christmas, happy holidays, and I'll see you in 2019.

We did with our hands, cut the timber, fit the stone, made our high country home. Oh, those great northern lights, how I miss them tonight. And the rivers and the streams, they roll wild through my dreams. My roots, they run deep through the heart and soul of me. Under mountains and hilltops, Fields of fireweed and forget-me-nots. To the bedrock of all that is true. Back to my roots. God rescue Mary, gentlemen, let nothing you dismay. Remember Christ our Savior was born on Christmas Day. Save us all from Satan's power when we were gone astray. Oh, tidings of comfort and joy! From God our Heavenly Father, the blessed angel came and unto Shepherds brought tidings of the saint. How bad in Bethlehem was born the Son of God by name. Oh, tidings of comfort and joy. Rest in Merry Gentleman. God rest in Merry Gentleman. Oh, tidings of comfort and joy, comfort and joy. Oh, tidings of comfort and joy.

Comfort and joy.

Comfort and joy.