Making Money in a Business Built to Last with Content Strategist Michelle Gifford - 65

This is Creative Counsel Episode 65: Making Money in a Business Built to Last with content strategist and business coach Michelle Gifford. Welcome to Creative Counsel with Brittany Ratel. I'm your host Brittany, an attorney for creatives who believes in solid contracts and cute office supplies and who wants to empower you to be a more confident business owner. Whether you're a creative influencer, maker, artist, shop owner, or content creator, you are not just a blank. You are a real bona fide business owner. So let's help you own your business and get you legally legit with Brit. Hello everybody, and welcome back to the podcast. I am, I could not be more excited than that. And I know that's a super cliché thing that podcast hosts say, but I mean, Michelle Gifford in the house, guys. Woo-hoo! This is gonna be so fun. And I'm gonna try my darndest to make sure that I'm not using too many inside jokes because Michelle and I have gotten quite close as business friends. And so she's just such an amazing, woman and entrepreneur and mama of 5 and mentor and business coach and knows just, she knows what's happening online. But I want to make sure that you can appreciate, you know, how she's arrived to where she is in her business and the great information that she has to share about you today about how you should be spending your time and not spinning your wheels to make stuff move online. So welcome, Michelle. So for people who maybe don't know you and kind of your story, kind of give us the Reader's Digest version. Who is Michelle Gifford? And you know, how did you come to do what you're doing today?

Who am I?

In like a very Zoolander way. Yeah, that's right.

So yes, absolutely. So I am a mom to 5, like you said, and when I was pregnant with my oldest, I was— we moved to Arizona, like we moved away from anyone I knew, and I wasn't working anymore, and I was like, hey, I'm super bored, and I didn't want to go get a job because I wanted to be with my kids, or my one baby. I didn't have a bunch then anyway, and so I started an online shop. I started Etsy. I started on Etsy. That is where this all started, and from there I was kind of hooked. I mean, it's pretty amazing what we can do now, right? Like, we can be at our house selling little girl hats, making little girl dresses, and that's kind of where it all started. From there I got into photography, and because I was taking pictures of my products, and then I realized I loved photography so much, and I became a photographer.

You're going to—

this is a winding road. Just come with me. It's been 14 years.

We like curvy girls. It's all good.

So that's right. So here we are.

We—

I became a photographer. I started a photography nonprofit, and then I started teaching photography business to photographers. And then I realized that I've always known this, actually, in high school, like, business was my thing. I, you know, like, I looking back, I'm like, oh yeah, it's actually just the strategy of business I like.. And so now for the past 4 or 5 years, I've been teaching online business and how to market yourself and message yourself appropriately, and also to set your business up for like long-lasting success. So I teach that online right now. And then I also have an agency where we, I have a team and we will help you create your content strategy. And then my team and I do the work for you. So there, so that's what I am. I love creating content. I think it's one of our greatest gifts as women right now is that we have so much in the world that we've never had before. And so I just feel pretty passionate about making sure that the things, the time you're spending online and with your business and the words that you're saying are moving your business forward.

Right. We've got a seat at the table like we've never had before. Let's make sure that we're being efficient and smart about it, you know, and making sure, yeah, that we have the impact and can take up the space exactly like we need to. Yeah.

Yeah, well, because here's the thing. We have them. We have the mic now. Like, I like to say we have this mic now, but we also have so much, so many responsibilities going on because, you know, we're moms. You got 4 kids. I got 5 kids.

Like, we're— there's a lot of kids up.

There's a lot of kids. And, and we're trying to do more than we've ever done. We were just coming out of pandemic. And like, I've had, you know, kids by me for 24/7. For the last year.

And bless you and your sweet California heart.

I'm sorry, no real end in sight. I mean, we have one day a week, but whatever. Anyway, so I just think that, um, if we start business, right, we start in business and it's this whole thing and we just think that we can do it and cut and just do it on the side. And if we don't really take ourselves seriously and take our business seriously, then we're probably wasting a lot of time and we're getting really frustrated and spinning our wheels.

Totally. Yeah. So, and I love what you said about, yeah, about making sure that we are planning for long-term success. And what does that look like in terms of setting up systems? What does it look like in being really intentional about what tools are we going to use and in what order and not trying to be everywhere at once, but trying to do things, you know, emphasizing and seeing, well, what is it that I really want? Where do I want to grow and why and to what end? You know, what is that purpose that you're moving people for? Towards? Because as we've talked about, it's very easy, especially in the spheres that we operate in, for people to get really sucked into vanity metrics, to be like, I know I want more followers, I want the higher numbers and whatnot. And we try to push back of like, yeah, but why? What are you going to do with them if you have them? What are you selling? Where are you leading them? What's the journey? What's the end goal?

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that we're doing ourselves and others a disservice when we stop at the numbers. Like, even, you know, I hear a lot of people like tell me how well their Pinterest views are going, and I'm like, awesome, but do you have an actual blog that sends people from Pinterest to your blog so you can make money? Because it doesn't matter if you're creating all this content and people are seeing it if they can't do anything with it and actually give you money and use your services. And so we, we do this a lot. I mean, it's, it's so easy, right? Like on Instagram, it's so easy to see like how many people are liking or following people.

And it's supposed to be easy that way. That's why it's really addicting, guys. You know, it's supposed to be easy.

And then also like you don't see the, like how much like followers turn to money and not that money is everything, but here's the deal. Don't be weird about money. Don't be weird about money. You need money to grow. I know that, like, the more money Brittany and I have, the better we're going to make this dang world, right?

And, and the more we can show up and make sure we can keep showing up and we have time for the— in the ways that we want to serve, and the more people we can help. I mean, that's, that's— those things are tied together. The more value we can bring. So I know that's what's one of my favorite Michelle-isms of yours is don't, don't be weird about money.

So Well, because I was weird for a long time. Like, I had a nonprofit for 4 or 5 years and I couldn't figure out a way to pay myself. And guess what? That nonprofit doesn't exist anymore. Maybe because it's time that it was done, but also because I, like, I didn't set it up correctly to where I could make it long-term. Like, because I have 5 kids, if I'm spending any time away, then it needs to— there needs to be some justification there. And anyway, so I think that if you, you have to think about that. Like, yes, you can work for free, for a minute, for a little bit, but you can't work for free forever, and you shouldn't. Like, your time is valuable, your skills are valuable. And I also want you to think about, like, why, why do you feel that way? Like, why do you feel like you have to give away stuff for free? Like, why do you feel like— I, I was just in one of my coaching groups, and she's like, so should I start paying myself even though I don't make very much? I'm like, yes.

Yeah, actually, go read, go read Profit First and go do the things that he tells you to do, even if it's just a little bit at first. It makes a difference. You need to see the needle being moved there and to pay yourself for your time. You're worth it. That's your time. Otherwise, go get a job at Costco.

Like, oh, absolutely, absolutely. Like, if— like, are you factoring, like, how much time— like, you're making $2 an hour. Yeah. And— or nothing an hour because you're never paying yourself, you know.

And so you don't have a business, you've given yourself a crappy job. That's what you have.

And because, like, with the craziest boss ever, you, you, you, and you keep telling yourself that, you keep talking to yourself really badly.

And like, you wouldn't put up with that toxic work environment, okay? Like, not to be full millennial on them, but like, don't, don't put up with that. That's, that's not good for anybody. You gotta, you gotta move on.

Yeah. Yep, absolutely.

So, okay, I love that. Okay, and so tell us what You know, what is it that you are talking about people in terms of if someone is wanting to invest and they only have a, you know, a nugget of time, which we all really do, you know, where, where should people be spending their time in terms of online and where should that be part of an overall strategy? What is it that you're teaching and coaching people doing these days?

These days? Well, for sure. So I love social media. I know I don't want you to feel like I don't, cause I actually really love it. So I do think you should choose one place to hang out on social media, whether that's Facebook, a Facebook group, Instagram, maybe you're going all in on TikTok. And yes, you can totally like cross-pollinate a little bit, but like, where are you going to spend your time to really build your audience? Choose one place. If you— let's talk specifics about Instagram right now, because that's, I think that's where a lot of my people want to grow quickly. And so if you are on Instagram and you aren't doing Instagram Reels, then you're missing out. For a lot of reasons. Number one is that Instagram—

It's a real bummer is what it is. You are missing out. Not to be all mom joke on you, but yeah, here it is. If the shoe fits.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So with Reels, Instagram doesn't release new products or new features. You maybe think it does, but it really doesn't release that many new features, like huge new features like Reels. Before that, it was like IG Live. Before that was Stories. I think that was the progression anyway. And so what happens is Instagram is going to favor and push out Reels more because if you don't know, Instagram is trying to compete with TikTok with Reels, right? And so they're going to keep pushing that out because they already know that TikTok has a proven strategy here, right? They have proven type of media that people are loving and they want to bring those people over to Instagram. So if you're creating Reels, you are going to get a lot more reach than any other post, any other post. So start creating Reels. You can on Instagram, I have a million and two tutorials about Reels. So you can come.

Yeah, you do. You've got some great content. What if people, because I can hear it now, I can almost see it. What if I don't want to just dance or do weird pointy things on Reels, Michelle? What about me? Like, how can I make a Reel?

If you can't dance, you can't Reel.

Just kidding. Well, shoot, I'm screwed then because we all—

No, you're not.

I've seen it. I'm no, I'm an enthusiastic but never, not a skilled dancer. No one would say otherwise.

Yeah. Oh, you know what? Most of my Reels, and it really depends on what your niche is or niche, but for me, I am definitely in the education space. So most of mine are like talking head Reels where I am teaching something that my audience wants to know. And that's okay. I would actually prefer that you stay very on brand and talking to your right people when you're creating Reels than to jump into some trend because I don't care if you go viral. If you go viral talking about something that your audience doesn't care about, then you're going to get new— a new audience that you can't serve.

And I've— you could go viral on something that has nothing to do, and you can't, you can't do anything with those people. You just, you say hi, and then you wave as they all leave you.

Yeah. I've had a number of people message me. They're like, Michelle, my Reel just went viral., and I'll go look and I'm like, well, that reel is great, went viral, but it's not— you just got a bunch of like teenagers and you're a mom serving moms, like, you know? And so, um, I think we get really caught up in being viral and going viral, but— and that is a— I mean, it's a great way to grow quickly if you're talking about the right thing.

So it needs to be part of an overall strategy.

Please just make all your content part of your strategy.

Yeah, it seems so simple. So how, so how do we do that? So we need to be using Reels because Instagram is going to favor it. That's where we're going to get traction. What about, you know, stories versus static posts and people, you know, talk about like shadow banning and now we have, you know, more and more discussion of like, well, it's pay to play. You know, is it still valuable? How should people be spending their time there? Yeah. Yeah.

Let's talk about like, I think so here's what's happening on Instagram. There's a lot of people telling you a lot of things about Instagram. Let's just go. I want to give you a filter in which to filter all of these messages, and then I want you to make a good strategic decision. So the filter that I need you to understand is that the whole goal of Instagram The whole goal is to have people stay on longer, period, the end. That is how they make money, right? So if, um, if they— so when I say that they're, um, like, okay, like, let's give a specific example. So people are like, okay, what matters more, a like, a comment, a share, or a save? Okay, when someone sees your post, which one of those? Um, and I would, I would break this down, okay, with With Instagram's filter, they want people to stay on longer. So let's say a like, that's probably the least amount of time anyone would take. A little thumb, it's like no effort, it's nothing. So, but what does a comment say? It means that they're interested in that type of content. But a share, let's say I share a reel, suddenly someone's watched my reel and shared it with someone. Maybe they shared it to their stories.. And now that Reel is getting a lot more views. People are spending a lot more time watching that one Reel, right? So that's, and then also with a save, they're going to come back and watch later. And so it's actually, Instagram isn't that hard to figure out because they only have one goal, is to keep people on the app. So create really engaging content or really informative or serve your audience the best and they're going to show up. So, so let's, let's talk about this for Instagram posts. What is going to take longer for someone to interact and engage with? One post with one image or a carousel post where people have to scroll through and get a lot of content? Carousels.

I've been doing more and more carousels and yeah, they're playing.

People like them. They are playing. If you look, if, if you look at my analytics for what posts are being saved, they're my carousel posts because Instagram is trying, and you're going to see this come up, come into play, to be more of a search engine and more of a content source. It used to be a magazine that you flip through, right? You saw the pretty pictures, and now it's a place to gain information and content. And so that's why we now— they, they stole it from Pinterest, right? Now you can save people's content and, and go back and look for it, little collections and folders, little collections. And then I, as a content creator, can create a guide and help people, right? So So they're, they're moving that way. They're adding alt text, which is another way to search. And so you're going to see, and I have seen in the last year, shift dramatically from being an information platform. And so that your content needs to mirror that. It may not work so much to just show up and unless you're already a huge influencer and people already care about your beautiful life, but you might should niche down and see how you can serve people. So even if you're like a clothing brand and and you're like, what, what do I even do? Like, I just wanna share pictures of my clothing. You should consider an educational part of your business. Start including that, like start including styling tips or how do I mix and match? How do I wear this one sweater 4 ways or whatever? Right. Because that is gonna get people to stick around longer. They're gonna view your content longer. You're gonna see engagement go up and Instagram's going to smile upon you.

That's right. And bless you for your efforts. Thank you for playing the game well. We're going to continue leading people along the gilded path. So, okay, interesting. So how does that play in terms of, you know, we have interests and that's our social media. What about other parts of our content? What about like email? What about blogging? Is blogging still relevant? Is blogging dead? You know, does it depend on, do social media experts disagree? You know, will they fight, you know, in a battle match for that truth?

Yes, thank you for this question. It's one of my favorites. So Instagram is the handshake, right? Instagram is like, hey, how are you? I'm glad to meet you. But you need to take someone from Instagram into actually buying your product and consuming your content in a long-form way. So I have the core content code, which just breaks down exactly this. I'm going to tell you, one is you choose one piece of core content that you create every week. Every week. So we have podcasts, me, Brittany, we have podcasts, right? We create that piece of content every week and then you can use it multiple ways. So what I recommend, because let's talk about the search engines, the content search engines, right? We have YouTube, we have Pinterest. Yes, Pinterest is a search engine and we have Google SEO. So we have those 3 places that we can be found.

And really Google owns YouTube, but you know, yes, yes.

But where do people go to find content? Those two places, right? So the monopoly, let's not talk about it.

As of now, we'll see when the antitrust lawyers get a hold of them. But that's, that's not today. So let's do it now.

No, so, so how can we— because listen, podcasting, Brittany's going to release this podcast. And the people who are going to listen are the people who know us, or who find us later and want to find out more. But because you can't really search podcasts in the same way, they're just, they're not great.

They're not there yet. There's some people playing around with stuff, but it's not there yet.

Yeah, it's just not there yet. So for this, this podcast specifically to be searchable, she needs to take this podcast and turn it into a blog post because then you can use it for Pinterest and blogging. If we recorded this podcast, then you can make it searchable for YouTube as well. So I really like to hit on as many search engines as possible. And the reason is that is long-term content. I could post today on Instagram and in 48 hours, no one's going to see it except through scrolling through my feed. But I have blog posts that I've written that make me money every month that I wrote a few years ago. So we spend so much time really focused on the present, present of Instagram. And don't focus on building our business long term. If what's going to be more important, if I learn how to blog correctly and use Pinterest correctly so that that one, this one podcast episode can benefit me for years. Yeah, we should do that. We should put that as part of our content strategy. And the other thing with Instagram is it's— you don't own it. You know, like Instagram changes every 5 minutes as far as like—

It's someone else's show and you're a guest there and they can lead you to the exit and they can change the rules at any time on the game show. And yeah, and you don't— you can whine and rant, but you can't do anything about it. Yeah.

It doesn't mean you don't play the game. It doesn't mean you don't show up and sit in the audience. But it does mean that you, you need to decide if your business is going to be long-term or not. I see, I think that Instagram is an easy, it's a gateway drug. Just kidding. But you know, it's the gateway to business. And at some point, you do hit a point where you say, am I going to take this seriously? Am I going to invest in like building a long-term platform that I can really impact people? Or am I just going to play it quote unquote safe and just You know, I'm just doing this little thing over here on Instagram.

We, we've talked about this, about the little thing, the cute little business, you know, like, oh, it's fun, you know, like you have your cute little shop, you have your cute little side business thing that you will do. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and it's, and it's patronizing when other people say it. And it, we also have to give some side-eye to when we do it to ourselves. And so, and when we catch any of our friends and colleagues and clients saying it. I know we call them out on and are like, I'm sorry, are you running just a cute little shop or are you building a 7-figure clothing business? I thought it was the latter. So. And we've had to say that to big people, like to successful people and of like, stop it. Why are you putting, already putting a ceiling on top of it and putting a disclaimer and putting it into a smaller box so that it doesn't take up as much space?

Quit it. Quit it. Yep.

We—

and, and I think that's good to point out is that like both Brittany and I, we both are— we work with people who are very successful in their businesses and this still creeps up like this, the imposter thing and, and kind of like sidestepping the success or the, um, like actually how our business is, is being built and run and our dreams for what our business, what it could be. And I think at least, well, this is what I think it is for me. I think sometimes I'm like, hey, if I build this very successful business, does that mean I'm going to not be a good blank mom? Yes.

Wife. Yeah. Whatever. Be good in other roles or other things that are important to me. And I think it's a safer narrative to say, I built this on accident. I didn't mean for this to happen. This found me. Not that, no, I really wanted this and I worked hard and I sacrificed and had to put up boundaries on and hire a nanny or a house cleaner or whatever else I needed to do in my life because I wanted this. And then I went and got it and now I have it.

So how do you do that? Because I think that, because I think that is really hard because I know that like when I, I actually just recently, this is this is behind the curtain, but I, my friend was like, I was talking to her and I, and she said, Michelle, do you know what? I think you're scared that like of what you want is so much bigger than what you're willing to like actually acknowledge that you want it to be this big. And I was like, you're probably right. Always have friends in your corner who call you out.

Yeah. Who challenge you a little bit there just to check your own thinking. And, um, Yeah, I mean, I think that's what— I mean, I think that's why, you know, Brené Brown's writing is so brilliant in her writing and research that talks about like, you know, why are we so afraid to be in the arena and it's always safer to be on the stands or to be like, oh no, I'm accidentally here, I didn't mean to be playing here and showing up like this because there's part of it that thinks, oh, what are people going to think? Am I going to be able to rest and confront my own choices and what I did and, you know, own how I show up, especially I think that plays a role in parenting and recognize that, you know, it's, it's a relationship and it's not just stuck as a role. And that takes ongoing work and sacrifices and juggling and that you have to, you need to be able to zoom out and be okay with that. Because yes, on some days, things could be really out of whack in terms of perspective of what you're, what you're spending time on, and that's okay. But you need to have the composure and confidence to sit with that and be okay with that.

Yeah, absolutely. And to know that you are starting, like you have this dream inside of you. Who have I become?

But you have these—

Dream, the impossible dream.

Exactly.

I was hoping there would be some—

Yeah, no, no, no. Leave it to me to bring in a reference. I mean, you can almost see La Mancha.

He is coming.

I know he is coming.

Yeah. And we want to be like, I am, I don't know, right? Like we want to be that. We want to be that. But it's really tricky because there is— it's like throwing myself in the ring, right? Like just being like, no, I'm raising my hand for this because I feel so strongly about this. And that's a hard thing to do because we all know opposition is going to come up and it's going to be a literal fight, whether you're fighting yourself, like those thoughts. And I think that's one of the biggest fights I didn't realize I was going to have to take on, you know, is the limiting beliefs and, and the self-development that has to come through growing a business.

I think it's the best personal development course there is out there outside of being a parent. I would say like there's parenting, which will stretch you in ways nothing else can, and so will running your own business because you have to self-confront. You're— and you're going to be put situations you have to be uncomfortable.

You have to to. Yeah. So, but knowing that, you have to know that this is where you're supposed to be, you know. And I've had, um, so in the last year, especially as I feel like I've grown so much in the last year, um, business-wise and personal development-wise, I just like kept getting this whisper of, get really used to being uncomfortable. Like, that's what God kept telling me that you're— this is, this is what this feels like.

This is good. This is where— this is what is actually what it's all about, is being in this zone, you know? And that's where learning happens, that's where stretching happens, that's what change— I just saw a great quote and it's like, if we're not willing to change, then what's the point? Yeah, not willing to change and to grow, then why, why are we doing any of this really?

Yeah.

Yep.

So anyway, so, but it's a whole thing. It's a whole thing. But I do want— I think it's always important to just go back to like, why did you start this? Like, what is that why? And, um, thank you, Simon Sinek. But it does start with why, right? It starts with like what's most important. For me, I know right now, and I said at the beginning, it's a running thing with me, is that women are being called now more than ever to stand up and speak out. So how— and my— I know that I'm here to help women, like, get that message crystal clear, and to get it out as efficiently and best as possible. And I feel so strongly about that. And when I, when I forget, all I have to do is go back to that, and then, or like, speak to someone who I'm serving, right? And then it's like, ah, this is it.

This is right. That's right. This was, that's what it's about. And you're right, it takes the focus off of you and are like, no, this is what, you know, I'm the guide, they're the hero, you know, to bring in, you You know, I'm story brand, Donald Miller this, you know, Macy would be so proud. And yeah, but it makes total sense, you know, and it allows us to help somebody do what they feel called to do and what they wanna build and move forward. And we wanna do that with the best use of resources possible. So, oh, that's so good. So, okay, sorry I took us on a great tangent, but I think that's important to outline there. So you've talked to us about Reels, blogging, you know, blogging's still relevant because like you said, we need to make sure that we're, we have some long-form content that's searchable and that is making sense in terms of drawing people and eyeballs and moving traffic along to where they can eventually purchase something.

Yeah. So blogging is not dead. It's just different, right? When we think of blogging, we think of us in 2008 and we're like, look at my first birthday of my son or whatever. That's not— people are not doing that anymore, but they are going to search. They're searching for answers to questions. And that is a really important part that I want you to think about blogging when people are happening upon your blog, because my blog I use more for attraction of new clients rather than my audience, right? My audience usually listens to my podcast or finds me on Instagram. So I use my blog to draw in more clients. So I want you to think about where they, where their mindset is when they are searching. They usually are searching to act, right? When you go to Pinterest, you're searching to decorate your room or to know how to become, I don't know, set up your legal business, right? Like you're actually searching for content to do something. When you go to Instagram, you are going as an escape. Most of the time you're not going there. So that mindset shift in and of itself is super important to be aware of when you're creating content on your blog and then using it for your Pinterest, because that will help you know what to, what to do. But also is I want someone in that mindset. To come to my blog, right?

Like, I'm going to prime to take action, and so you want to make sure that you're leading them along and doing that correctly and knowing how to set things up and the SEO and the Rich Pins. And you, you teach people how to do all of that stuff.

Yeah, we do, because it's— and that's, I guess, why I think is most important, because I don't want you to just blog to blog and to just say, yep, I did it, because if you don't do it correctly, then you're not getting any traction from it. And so I do, like, there are some things that you do need to learn how to do right. And it's not that hard necessarily, like it's, you can do it, but you do need to take the time to, like, if you're going to spend time on Pinterest, let's figure out how to do it the right way. If you're spending time on blogging, let's do it the right way so that the time you're spending is actually impacting your business.

Gotcha. And it's moving the needle forward, right? Yep, exactly. Gotcha. And serving the people you need to serve. So gosh, I love that. Okay. Okay. So that's how it should all interact. And then And where does email marketing come into that? So like, you know, what in terms of people's time that they're spending, you know, is there something like a ratio they should be looking at or should they start one place and then move out from there? Or does it just depend on the type of business?

I would definitely start the— if I were just starting out, I would get your website, I would do an email list and choose a social media.

Okay.

If you have those 3 things, those are kind of your, your foundation. And, um, and then you can start creating content and lead people to— so your content's going to be either your blog or your podcast or whatever, but let's have that foundation first. So email marketing is huge because you own those people's emails, right? And you can email them anytime. And they also— someone's giving you their email and then you can get them quickly on a sales sequence so that they can get to know you and understand your product and hopefully buy your product. So, so yeah, so I think that email marketing is huge. I would definitely prioritize that and get— so I think about it. Do you want Michelle's— do you want Michelle's content pyramid?

Yes, for sure. We want, we want all the things.

I don't know. I was like, I'm going to have to talk about this on my podcast. I haven't talked about it yet on my podcast because it— but it's This is usually what happens. I want you to picture the ocean, right? And you— if a lot of people just focus on content, right? That's the stuff that we see. We see Instagram, we see, we see people's— we hear people's podcasts. OK, so that's what we see. But what is happening underneath? Like, what is happening underneath your content. Do you have that all set up? So the base— so I think about it as a triangle iceberg. Okay, so you can only see the tip of the iceberg. That's the content. And if you want that content to be set up correctly, you one, have your brand messaging down, right? You know what your brand is, you know who you're serving, you know exactly how to speak to them. And then you have your customer journey. You know exactly how you're taking, how you're attracting customers, how they're going, where they're going. Next, you have your email list so that you can get people on there quickly and into your sales sequence. And then you have your website that is your home base and your blog, hopefully. And then next you have your, um, then you have your content strategy, which is like, hey, where am I going to show up? How am I going to show up? And then you have your content that you actually create. Now, if you just focus on content, you're just a little ice cube sitting in the ocean.

So cute and so small.

You are the cutest little iceberg. But if you have, if you have that whole base, then baby, you can sink a ship, man.

Yeah. You want— this is coming smack in terms of mine because I use a Titanic metaphor when I'm talking about my LLCs. And so We're going to keep these in different words. We're going to kind of keep it simple here and not confuse people with our teaching metaphors. But, but no, I love that because I think, yeah, the more— and I think people can easily get overwhelmed with online marketing and being like, gosh, I'm not good at that, or I don't understand. Or I think this also helps, you know, this happens is people bounce around between gurus and then they're like, wait, I should do this. And this person thinks I should start a podcast. And this person is like, no, you should be on LinkedIn. Or now I've got Clubhouse and like They'll just take a course and membership website and now I'm doing this and like it's, they're doing lots of stuff, but is any of it, you know, I think you should maybe turn off some of that stuff, listen to a few people who have some good chops and who have not just gone viral and then can say that they're now a social media coach or a social media expert, but actually don't know how to replicate their success. Because you and I laugh, but we've seen it. We see it a lot actually. Yeah.

We do see it a lot. And that's, and that's why I'm like, hey, listen, I want you to think about your business and just assume, um, assume that you are going to build a big business. Like, let's just assume that in 5 or 10 years, this business is going to be big. So if that is the assumption we're working off of, let's build it the right way. Because, because otherwise that little iceberg is going to get tossed to and fro listening to all the experts. Right. And that's exactly what happens. And you're like, wait a minute, Clubhouse, I should be on Clubhouse. Everyone says I should be on Clubhouse. It's a new thing and it's great. I mean, I love Clubhouse. You and I love Clubhouse, but it needs to be a part of that overall strategy. And if you do not have that foundation, the, the work that's done under the water, then you're, then it doesn't, it doesn't matter. Like it doesn't matter if you have a million Clubhouse viewers, if you don't have a place to send people or like even know who your customer is or know what that journey is, then it doesn't even, it doesn't even matter, right?

Right. Yeah. To what end, you know?

Yeah. I'm shaking my head. All of the, all of the gurus who I'm like, that's great, you did that once, but it's not very, you know, how do you replicate?

It's not repeatable. It's not. Yeah, yeah. Again, it's not replicable. And like, yeah, you with your beautiful beach waves and influencer hat.

I'm—

that's great. That, that's a great thing for you. I don't know if that is actually a formula.

I don't know. My cheekbones. I don't have the cheekbones for it.

Michelle's new slogan. You know, you do. You've got amazing bone structure and you've got those piercing blue eyes. And I know you guys are going to appreciate it. Focus on the eyes. But you do. I know. So people just have to gaze into and they're like, I'm like, yes, that's why I need to be your client. Okay. So talk to me how, you know, and the ways that you help people. You have courses, you also do coaching, you have an online coaching group, which I've been a member of forever that I love. I love being in your Moneymakers. And then you help people in your agency. Like when is it, are people ready? When should they be doing this stuff on their own? And when are they ready to maybe hire an agency like something like yours?

What should that look like? Yeah, so it depends on how fast you have, how fast you want to grow and how many, like if you are in, there are people who are in the do-it-yourself phase. And right now I am because of that and because of this, the iceberg principle, because of that, like I have some, a bundle that where you can get your website, you can get the blogging course, the Pinterest course and my core content code, which really just shows you how to build a good content strategy. And so I have that bundle and it's going on right now. And if you buy with Brittany, she's going to throw in some stuff.

She's going to throw in her— because I can, because I know Michelle's so awesome and I want, and I want you guys— because I am also about business foundations, guys, okay? And I want you to build stuff right. And so I don't want you to build this awesome thing, um, if you don't have your stuff together. So we're going to make sure you're taken care of there and that you got your, your legal docs that you need on your website.

All set up. Yep. So that is happening right now, and I really recommend that for people who are, um, just starting out and maybe the funds are a little bit lower because you're just starting out. That's totally fine, um, and you can do it yourself and you can, and you can learn it yourself. And so that's what this whole bundle is all about, um, is that you could really be up and running and have your foundations ready to go. And so there's that, like, but I also get clients who are like, hey, I just want you to take this over for me. And I have big clients and small clients and they say, hey, will you do the whole branding thing for me? And so we do that as well, because I'm going to tell you, setting up your email list is sometimes not great. And we could, you know, and like setting up your sales sequence, like maybe you really want to focus on building your business in a different way. And so it really depends on who, where you are, because I know that I'm at a point where I'm like, if I'm not really good at this, I don't need to learn it because I only need to do it once. Right. Some things you only need to do once. Like, you probably don't need to learn how to build your website because you're only going to do it once. Right. Yeah. But so it'd be smarter to either—

I like that. That's a good litmus test. Yeah. Which is why I'm hiring you to help me. And you've got some big clients. Can you tell us? I mean, can you tell us? You name drop a little bit, like, I won't, it's fine.

So we do, um, we do content for like Cake by Courtney, um, Twist Me Pretty, Lily Eats and Tells. We, um, we help them with their strategy and then, um, their content management and some other things. So yeah, we have a bunch more, but it's, it's so great, like, to, to, to be able— because listen, that— so that's my, like, so we have like the brand creation where that's where usually people are starting out, they have like a little nest egg of money that they are ready and they don't, they just don't want to deal with like the beginning business stuff. And so they will pay us. And then we have our, our like content management clients who we take over their content for them on a, on a monthly basis. And we, it's not an, it's not a VA service, right? They're hiring us for our content strategy. And then we are experts in SEO and Pinterest and email marketing.

It's the strategy plus the execution.

Yeah, right. Yep. Which is important, right? Because you can, you can get a VA, but you just have to know that that means that you're in charge of training them when Pinterest changes their, their algorithm. You're in charge of teaching them every aspect of everything. And that, which is fine to do once, but since like, like Google's changing their stuff in, I think, May and June, like, you just have to be willing to stay on that. And if you're willing to stay on that, that's awesome. Or you can hire it out to us where we think the updates are pretty fun and cool.

And you guys nerd out about that stuff, which is great. You do what you do and you help other people. Yeah. Do that. So, and I mean, like, like, like you said, I mean, you get the help with the strategy because I think it's all too easy to stay in the trenches of your business and to kind of forget again, what's the bigger picture here? What, what are people thinking and viewing and feeling and connecting with my brand? And am I being consistent with that? Am I making sure that I'm taking advantage of the awesome content, the stuff I'm already doing, and am I using that and really squeezing all the goodness that needs to be squeezed out of that? Yeah.

And if you're thinking of your business as long-term, you have to get very good at only doing the things that you're very good at.

Right? Well, I like that. That's going to go on Pinterest.

Because, you know, like, if, like, A lot of my clients are so good at Instagram and so good at content creation, they should not spend one more ounce of time on creating that video. They should hand that over to an expert that says, hey, this is how we're going to maximize this for YouTube, blogging, and Pinterest. That's what they should do. That is how they use their— and then they're going to grow exponentially because they can create more of that content. But if they're stuck in the writing it out, what in the world, right? You don't have to do that.

So there's people for that. Yeah. And they're great at it. Let them be great at that. Let you be great at what you're at.

Yeah. So anyway, so I, I get pretty passionate about that because I love, like, I love sitting across from women who have businesses big and small and, and I just get to help them, especially the people who are like brand. I get to build their brands and like they have something so awesome. All they need is a little bit of like the foundation, the stuff under the iceberg so that they can keep going.

So it's the best. That's awesome. Okay. So I mean, in terms of parting tips, one more thing I wanted to say is, I mean, we talked a little bit about, cause I love that you can kind of give an update because you are, you have such relevant experience because you're watching what's going on in the social media realm and how it should affect your content marketing. How should people be using Clubhouse? What's, what's your quick takeaway there in terms of we've been on it, we played around with it a little bit. What do you think? How, how maybe should someone be using it or be like, oh, this would be a good fit if you're doing this in your business?

Yeah, I would use Clubhouse as a collaboration tool, right? I think that you can really grow quickly with Clubhouse because you can start working with a lot of people, right? Like you can just say, hey, let's jump on a Clubhouse and it can expand your network. I would always have a place to send people after the Clubhouse and don't be weird about it. That's where that email thing part of the iceberg comes in is have a way, something you can offer your people in Clubhouse that takes them off that app and actually you can serve them better. And I would stop apologizing on Clubhouse.

Stop the apologies, good people. Yeah. The bowing and scraping, we gotta move on.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I would start, I would start like doing that and then And it kind of really depends on, again, what your strategy is or how you want to grow on Clubhouse. But I think that being, setting yourself up as the expert. So start a regular show, right? Start a regular show where you ask a lot of different people to come in and talk to you about it every Tuesday at 10 or something. I think that would be huge because it's setting yourself up as the expert and you're getting in front of a bunch of different people because you're inviting different people on and, and then people are going to start referring people to you. And so, but also just don't be afraid to jump on and do it. It's pretty easy and fun.

Yeah. And you can, you can listen for a while. You can figure out kind of the rules and etiquette and how rooms work and whatnot. So, but yeah, we've been on it and we've had a room with some of our other friends who are in the biz as well. And it's been fun. It's been fun to chat and connect with people.

So yeah.

Yeah.

And I've seen big things like, cause we've been doing it, we did a few Fridays in a row. And it was fun to see that grow, right? Like people like setting their alarms for that. And I think there's a lot of space for that. And people, especially if your audience— like, I love Clubhouse because I can just show up. I can be doing my laundry and telling you about business and it's so fun. So yeah, so try it. Just try it. Could be awesome.

It could be awesome. You know, what do you got to lose? Just time. It's not like you guys are busy or anything. Come on.

Well, that's the thing is I really do try to fit, like, try each new platform and see how I can make it fit. I started with Periscope and that taught me so much about being in front of a camera, even though it's not around, it doesn't even matter. It taught me, it taught it, like, it was the first thing that pushed me out into the, like, online, on, like, live camera feed. And that was game-changing for me because then when Facebook Live and Instagram Live came around, I was ready for it. I was like, that's fine. It's not that weird.

Yeah.

So, so I always like to try those things out because I feel like it always preps you for something else.

Totally. That's a good point in terms of making sure that you have the skills that are going to be a longer-term way of serving your business. Yeah.

And when it's new, everyone else is like, what's going on? How do I do this? So it's not like you're coming in 2 years in and you're like, I'm new here, now what? You know? So I think that there's a lot of grace right now because it is new.

So everyone's figuring out, it's all good. So That's all, that's all awesome. Michelle, any parting last words of advice? Where can people find you? How should they be connecting with you and getting your awesomeness in their lives and in their business?

Yeah, come hang out with me on Instagram, because that's the handshake, right? We talked about this. I am Michelle Gifford. And then I have a podcast. And, and then you definitely, if you're ready to get your business up and running, I have courses and the website for you, and you can get Brittany's website bundle as well with that.

So come over to— I mean, not only is it both, it's like functional and beautiful, which— oh yeah, talk about how— I mean, that's, that's really important because there's a lot of people can spend time, and I see business owners do this, and they waste a lot of time, and they're still researching and debating, and I don't know what type of website I should have or whatnot. And we, you just need to have something that's good and solid and move forward with it.

Yeah. And with that, like I feel really strongly about, cause you know, at the base of my iceberg is messaging and making sure that your messaging is clear. And that starts on your website. Like I, people either, a lot of times either choose beautiful or like informational. And I, with our websites, they are very strategic in how they're laid out. They walk you through like really like just how to clearly put your messaging in. So it's a template. I use Showit and it integrates with WordPress seamlessly so that you can get the full blog functionality of WordPress. And with Showit, it's super easy to take the template and then just make it your own and just like really like plug and play, like plug in your words and it looks beautiful, but it also really serves your business and serves your clients.

And it's something that you can update on your own. I think that's the other thing people sometimes get a little scared of WordPress of like, wait, I'm going to help be held hostage if I need to change the name of something or update it. Like I'm, I'm screwed. I don't know how to do any of that stuff, you know? Yeah.

That's why I love Showit. And I have some tutorials on how you can use Showit. And that's why, like, that's what I usually make for my clients when I'm making their websites, because I want you to be able to say, okay, I need a new sales page.. And you could copy one of the, the sales pages and then just create it yourself. Because that's what I found. I've been doing this forever and WordPress still, I'm like, oh, I do not want to create in WordPress as far as like landing pages. It like drives me bonkers. And so I've moved over to ShowIt because it's so easy to use for someone who's been in a long time or someone just starting out. So you can start with a template and get it right on your website, change the colors, change some of the words and use it. And then when you're ready to like add to it, you can very easily without hiring someone and spending so much money on that.

Spending a fortune. Yeah, yeah. We've both seen people spend fortunes on websites instead of doing it to other things that actually could have moved the needle forward. I.e., don't spend a fortune on your website before you get your freaking trademark. You, you built all this beautiful thing. You basically, you invested money into like your frame and you haven't even painted the picture yet. Like, that's what I see that as. Like, you have a beautiful gilded frame and it's empty.

Oh my word.

Just get a trademark. Just get your trademark. Come on. If you like it, you should have put a ring on it. So that's awesome. We'll link all this goodness in the show notes if you guys are interested and definitely want to check out Michelle's offerings, because like she said, she's got this down to a system and she's not about wasting time. She is the granddaughter of hardworking, you know, student, you know, teacher cowboys. I love when you talk about your grandparents and how hardworking and people of action they are. And that's obvious every time that I get to hang around with you, because that energy that you have is infectious, because you, you are a woman of action and you get clarity and you want people to move forward and you get them to do the same.

Oh my goodness, you are the best. You are the best friend to have. So I'm so grateful Brittany calls me out on my crap. And I was telling my sister the other day, I was like, I have a few friends who are the best because they will say things like, Michelle. And she was like, I am so jealous of that, actually. Like, and I said, you should be because I know they love me enough to say that to me, right? And are— and anyway, and like I said to Brittany, I was like, you can come over to— I bought my grandma's house. Speaking of my grandmas, I was like, I have beds now. It's not decorated, but I, I want you to come over because we're that close. You don't have to have it decorated.

Exactly. Which is, you know what, that's a, that's a deeper level of friendship that you want if you want people to come come over and be like, yeah, no, this isn't ready for like a before and after reveal, and I don't care, you know, we just want to hang out. So that's, you know, all— that's all things we should aspire to, as long, you know, along with like hanging out with their friends without a bra. Like, that's another level too, which I think is great. And everyone needs their friends. Check, check. Thank you so much, Michelle, for being here. Um, always a pleasure to talk with you. Thanks for having me. Gosh, isn't Michelle just fabulous? I love that girl. She's my go-to when I need kick in the pants when I need some good, like, Annie Get Your Gun energy, like circle your wagons. How many other Western metaphors can I get here? Um, she is it. So here is the deal. Um, I— Michelle has now launched, and it is live, her, um, Built Business to Last, uh, bundle. Okay, and this is everything you need to actually get your business set up and be systematized. Okay, to have real website, to have a real idea what you're doing with blogging, on Pinterest, on email, with your content strategy, so you're not scrambling around chasing shiny objects in your business, hopping from guru to guru, from course to course, without a plan of how is it all working together, what is the big picture, and how am I supposed to actually do this. Okay, um, so if you are looking to have that all and have that all buttoned down, looking beautiful, and hit the ground running— and here's the thing, getting legally legit too, because I got a special bonus for you, then here's what you're going to want to do. You're going to want to click on the link in the show notes right here. I have a special affiliate code for this because yes, I am a proud affiliate of this product that she's launched. It's so amazing. I have no problem standing behind it 100% because you guys know I don't— I'm not an affiliate for a whole lot of things, okay? I take my role as an advisor and a strategist and a counselor to people people really seriously, and I want to make sure anything that I attach my name into, it's, it's got to be exactly perfectly the right fit and aligned with my values and how I want to show up for, for my clients and my listeners. So, um, I— Michelle has redesigned my embarrassing website that honestly I didn't even want people to go to, so that's why I just gave them the link to my calendar website. So if you've wandered on my website in the last few years, that's probably all you saw, and that was kind of on purpose because I just I didn't know what I was doing. It was— and it was something I was meant to make work and make prettier, and it just never happened. Um, and Michelle has taken these Showit templates and built one and named it after me, which, like, is that sucking up? Yes. Um, am I totally okay with that? Yes. And it's beautiful. I can't tell you how beautiful it is and how already how easy it is for me to move around things— me, non-coder, non-techie girl— to be able to move it around and be able to have my website look the way I want to so I can get stuff done, so I could launch and get my things out there and get my messaging content and have it be part of a smart— part of a smart online business. So if you are interested in this, you're going to want to check out the link below. Go look at the Built to Last Business Bundle, okay? You get website template, you get for your website, okay, good to go, blogging course, Pinterest course, email content strategy course, all the things you need, plus my best-selling website legal bundle, okay? I sell this thing just by itself, is $200. I am giving that to you as a present, okay? Just for believing in Michelle, and I am putting and stamping my name on this happily, attaching it and saying, go get this. And if you buy it and use my code, not only do you get $100 off, but you get these free legal templates, okay? So that when you get this beautiful website going, you have something great to stick in that footer, okay, and to wrap you up and get you legally legit. So the code you're going to want to use is BRITTNEY100, okay? All of that's going to be in the show notes here, so check it out, please. Um, just make sure— don't— I don't know how long this deal is going to be going, and so, um, you know, I, I don't think you have very long because Michelle's got stuff to do. She doesn't like to be, you know, in launch mode all the time. So wander onto the website, make sure you can take a look at it, and move quickly. And, you know, just Rally what you need to to get this stuff taken care of and off your list, and then you can be in the mode of getting stuff done, you know, instead of that scramble. And that's where we all want to be. So I hope you got some good, um, some good takeaways and tidbits and motivation out of this episode today about what you should be doing in your business. And no matter what you're selling, how you can be going about it in a smart way to take advantage of your time and resources and really magnifying those. Because we all know that we're busy, we're busy women, We're busy creatives and creators and influencers and business owners, and we got stuff to do and a lot of constraints on our time and resources. So we have to work smart. It's not enough just to work hard. As hard work as I know that you guys all can do, okay? And I know Michelle can do, um, we got to also pair that with being smart, being smart with our resources and making sure that we are getting that content out where it needs to go and moving the needle and finding the people who we're always meant to serve. Surf. Okay, thanks so much for being here and listening. Make sure you check out the links and get yourself all set up. Okay, don't wait on this. All right, get a business built to last. Thanks so much for joining me here, folks. We'll see you on the flip side.