Instructor Interview #8 Tatiana Whitlock

It always takes a minute. And it says recording started. So it says live, but we're really not live. We're just recording live. So, hi everyone. My name is Brooke Cheney. I'm the owner instructor here at A Great Start Shooting School. Today I have with me Tatiana Whitlock. Most people on the range tend to call her T, but you know, I call her Tatiana because I just get used to that. Who knows, maybe I'll slip into T one of these days or another. This is number 8 of our instructor series, and for those of you who are new to the series, the whole idea is instructors talking to instructors so that as a student you realize we all started somewhere. We didn't walk in, pick up a gun, and know everything and know how to do it. And I love having T on because she and I have a similar story, yet it gets very divergent and much different. But we started later in life, and, um, and we, we agree that— or last time I talked to her, we agreed on the whole idea. It's kind of cool to be newer in the industry because we still remember what it's like to be that brand new student. So with that, I will try to get right into—

so thank you for your time, T. Absolutely.

All right, so I could go on and on about who you are. Um, you know, the easiest thing is hit a girl in a gun, and I don't— what is your Actually, I don't know, what is your actual title? Are you the National Training Director or what do you do at A Girl and a Gun?

Yes, so like all of us women, I wear many hats. There isn't a single woman I've met in the shooting space who has only one role or responsibility in life. So I'd say first and foremost, I'm a mom. I have 3.5, hint, hint, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, kiddos. I'm happily married, living in Maine with my family. And professionally, I have become over the past decade, a full-time professional firearms safety instructor. And one of the hats that I wear within that genre is I am the national director of training for the country's largest women's shooting organization, which is a Girl and Gun Women's Shooting League. I'm also the director of training at my home range up here in Gray, Maine, Howell's Gun Shop, where we have kind of just by accident or happenstance, an entirely female training staff. And I think we're one of the few ranges in the country that can say that.

How crazy is that? That is definitely— it's not.

And these women are unbelievably credentialed, and it is an honor to work with them. So it's, it's a real treat to come up here in Maine where nobody thinks much is going on, but we've got some really great stuff happening. And then I train nationally under my own name at ranges all over the place, coast to coast, border to border throughout the year.. And I also do quite a bit of work online, working remotely and virtually with folks who can't necessarily make it to the range for whatever those circumstances are.

So even though I'm just in Connecticut, I've taken some of her online courses with her, part of it as an instructor to see how she does it, but also because she always has stuff to teach me. So, um, yeah, I love your online stuff.

The collaboration between us gals instructors is so amazing. So I love that part of our gun culture and space too. Like we're not competing against each other. We're all in this to raise each other up. And I'm so proud of that. In addition to that, I think the last final things I have to mention, 'cause they are a big part of what I'm doing and contributing to right now, is I'm a member of the Walther Defense Division. And that's a rather unique, air quotes, shooting team, 'cause we're really a collective of instructors, competitors who Walther has kind of put together to draw upon for our industry knowledge and help collaborate with new design and innovations that they've been releasing over the past few years. That, and I'm also sponsored by Trijicon, which is a new addition. They're a phenomenal company to work with, and I'm honored, honored truly to be able to represent them.

And I believe I saw on Instagram or Facebook you guys just dropped a new Walther product. I know you were like raving about the grip and how it fit and that sort of stuff. Well, I just, just not to try and do the commercial thing, but what was that?

That's the Walther F-Series. It's part of the PDP Walther pistol line, and it's a firearm that we really worked hard for a number of years to develop that was specifically tailored for a female shooter. And it isn't shrinked and pinked on our behalf. It's truly based on science and data and ergonomics and user interface and all of the— it's not a radical design, but it is a lot of very strategic and specific modifications and changes that put together have created a game changer of a pistol. So you can have the standard capacity firearm in 15 rounds, You don't have to compromise capacity or caliber, so it's available in 9mm. It's a full size but very concealable.

And when this gets up, I will absolutely have all of your links down below, your— all the things you already talked about as far as Girl and a Gun, um, tatianawhitelock.com, all of those good things. So, and, uh, Walther and all that fun stuff. So the links will be there or there if you're on Facebook, but I'm going to put it up on YouTube first because it's easier there. All right, on to our next question. So we're trying to stay with the same format so everybody gets to hear kind of sort of the same thing. Is what made you want to become an instructor? And I usually— this is out of order, but yeah, something like that.

Sure. I had no idea that firearms industry existed. Like you, Brooke, I got into this— I really— my first class was just 11 years ago, and I came from a background of fine art, industrial design, and product manufacturing, plastics. So I had no idea that you could find a career path within the shooting industry. This was completely alien and foreign to me. So I think it became an interest of mine to pursue becoming an instructor when I was going through my journey of learning and becoming a training junkie. And I just couldn't get enough. And I was going to travel all over the country to these classes where it was intimidating. I was definitely putting on my big girl pants and mustering the courage to fly by myself to some foreign state in the middle of nowhere with a bunch of people I've never met before to take a class. That was a big leap for me. And part of my—

Wait, wait, wait. I'm going to interrupt you. So I'm going to go backwards, forwards to one of the other questions is, What was your first training that you actually got to go to?

Oh, well, my first, that's a story. I know there are a lot of women who can talk about having a horrible first experience, and that was not mine at all. My first class, um, was pretty— it's hilarious to think about it now, but my ex-husband prompted me after the birth of our second baby, 16 months after our first, to go and get a hobby, something for myself, something that would feed my soul and just get me mental clarity and just fill me up spiritually.

And so as far as you and me, that's the same thing. My husband's like, go. My first child and my second child were 16 months apart. And he's like, go.

And we know what that's like as women. We give so much of ourselves. And it's amazing when we're given that blank check go and do something for us. So I wanted something completely out of my wheelhouse. I wanted something no one in my family had a say about or could like be the expert in. So I wanted to go hunting. I wanted to go on a duck hunt with my dad and brothers, which is something none of us had done in decades. So I pursued a Women on Target clinic and a hunter safety. The Women on Target clinic came first and I drove my minivan through the encroaching forest over a graded gravel road, and you swear you hear banjo music playing through the trees, and you're like clutching the steering wheel. What have I done?

You know, I have to laugh because the first thing I ever did was run a Women on Target program. So continue on.

Yes. Yeah. And I followed GPS to this teeny little range out in the middle of the woods. It's amazing. It's such a gem. It's the North Berwick Rod and Gun Club here in Maine. And it was exactly what I expected. It was the middle of nowhere. It was like a ramshackle kind of, you know, needing some love TLC, log cabin style lodge/classroom and, you know, bunker berms set out into the field and bad taxidermy all over the walls, you know, the dusty turkey, you know, all that stuff.

Were there banjos playing or no? In my head.

It was amazing. And the gentlemen who were there, they even looked the part. I mean, it was like they, they got the uniform to a tee, you know. They were wearing the denim and the Carhartts and the boots and the big silver belt buckles and the flannel and the vest and the trucker's cap and the mustache of the pendulous white beard. I mean, they were perfect, perfect. But expected and more.

Oh yes, they made it from Hunters up in Maine.

Right? I mean, right out of the pit, what you would think, you know, stereotypical would look like. But what blew my mind was how un-stereotypical the experience I had was. And this group of people, they never once mansplained a thing. They were the most respectful, enthusiastic, passionate, yet calm. They looked you in the eyes. They never called you sweetie or honey. There was none of that like nurturing behavior. It was peer to peer. And direct eye contact and absolutely use the correct nomenclature. The procedures, the processes were all explained. And all 23 of us who sat at those tables like a pale shade of green, filling out the first safety waiver we've ever filled out. You read those things and it's a little bit like, what have I done? Right? We all ended the day just absolutely enamored with the people, the culture, the experience, experience. And the firearms were great, but it wasn't the— I mean, we got to shoot guns, but I think what we all took away more than that was this environment feels like home. And it was such a treat to have that community create that experience that I joined the club that week. I bought our first handgun that week. I was, you know, hook, line, and sinker. Had no idea what was coming next, but I knew I had found a place I belonged.

Well, and to me, this goes back to that what made you become an instructor sort of thing, because I was just on another podcast called Get Off My Lawn with 6 instructors, and we were just talking about how much we love watching people go from that green shade to, oh, look what I can do. And it's just one of the best things ever.

That moment, being able to create that moment is is a really special gift we have working with new people.

But that's why it's a great start. I— because I love brand new shooters because I don't have any bad habits I have to fix. I mean, I love my seasoned shooters as well who want to get into competition and stuff, but I'm like, I like starting them because I love that moment where you go from green to permagrin.

So I love that permagrin. It's true, it sticks.

It does. It's like, ah, because like you said, you get there and it's scary, and it's like, what the heck did I just get into? Like all those things. And it's just like, I talk about it in my students all the time. They're like, I remember when I'm like, how do I touch this without going up? If I touch it, will it go up? You know, that too. Oh, wait a second, look at me doing my range bag and all of that. All right, so now this is my next question, which I don't know if we already covered, but what is your actual first memory with firearms? Was it that event or was it something else?

So my very first memory of firearms, and you kind of got to dig for some of these, you know. So my family, we had a tiny gun safe, like a tall, you know, gun safe in a narrow closet set back into our house. And I always knew it was there, but it wasn't any more exciting than the power tools in the woodshop in the barn down the road. You know, my first memory of the firearms themselves was of my father and brothers cleaning their shotguns after a duck hunt in what was a big stoned entry room covered in camo, and the tall tales and the laughter.

And the boys were covered in camo, or the room was covered in camo?

Okay, jackets everywhere. And just, I must have been, you know, 7 or 8, it's probably, you know, experiencing this. And the smell of poppies, you know, which I didn't remember existed, and it brought that memory back. The first time I was in a gun shop and someone cracked the lid, I was like, take me back, you know.

I was like, I'm now 8, no matter what my face says, I am now 8.

Exactly. It was so awesome. And, you know, that's what I remember, that, that jovial spirit, that amazing experience. But it really wasn't about the guns. It was about that feeling of, of them being together and doing that. The firearms were a part of it. And I think that's kind of a theme that's carried forward into a lot of the work that we're doing now and that I'm experiencing with a lot of people is the shift from the firearm is just a piece of a bigger story. And once we embrace that, it's like any other tool we have to make sure we respect and utilize properly. But while it is an incredible object, it's not the whole experience. It's a piece of something much bigger and something so much more powerful and meaningful.

Yeah, well, it's like the pink, right? And the pink for the name tags and all of that. It's like, I hated pink as in general, like I hate it with a passion. And that was pre-Guns. And then it's like, 'cause I didn't like girls either and pink was too girly. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, I'm not a girly girl. I am not pink, all of that.. And I found that when I got into the gun world through competition, that— and a girl with a gun— and I was just like, huh, there's girls out there I do like, right? I can be girly now. So I don't know when the pink thing happened, but my USPSA rig, when my husband bought it for me, it's all pink.

I love it. I love it.

And it's just like, uh, you know, Max Michel Yes, I, I had the, uh, I was able to train with him one day, and it was back 2012, 2013, so in the beginning for me. And I'm training with Max, and we're at a USPSA competition, and, uh, and someone asked me about where I got my pink mag holders, and, um, I said something like, well, I can't shoot for shit, but I can look good doing it. And Max started cracking up. I'm like, that's it, my claim to fame. I can make Max Michel laugh. But yeah, I just— like, you're talking about all the experiences, and this is the thing, every time I go to testify, whether it's in DC or Hartford, I'm like, I wish we could bring our experiences to there because they're just like, guns evil, guns evil, guns evil. And it's just like, no, no, no, it's the most amazing, giving, caring people. Like, all those people at Women on Target were volunteering their time to take care of you. And are you going to Detroit this weekend by chance?

You know, no, I won't. I'm not able to fly at the moment.

Oh, okay. Yeah, we'll talk about that at the end. We talked— yeah, I apologize. Well, we'll let that— that's our cliffhanger right now. So, all right, so let me go on, try to stay on track so we get you out of here in a reasonable time. So I remember, like, you were starting to talk about in your journey, like, flying all over God's creation to find training. I know one of the reasons I opened a Great Start Shooting School is because I wanted to be able to give people little chunks of training versus what you and I did, which was fly to Arizona, fly to Florida, fly to wherever, Texas. But when I was looking as a brand new person, I was just like, I don't even know what they're offering, and I don't know if this is basic enough, and I don't know if I can get in this. So how would you suggest to a brand new person who knows nothing What should they look for, or what would you give for advice?

Sure. There's more structure out there than you think. I think as a new person, you look at this and you— I think one of the funniest stories I have is somebody who said, I joined this— there's an incredible gun range here in Maine called the Scarborough Run Gun Club. They're amazing. They hold lots of matches across multiple disciplines, you know, sporting clays, all of that stuff, IDPA, all of the acronym suits, they do all of the stuff, law enforcement training, it's the full gamut. And this particular student said they went to watch a match and tour the range, and they walked out of there just completely deer in the headlights, overwhelmed, felt like how, I don't even know where to begin, and it was paralysis by analysis. Yeah, it took them It took her finding a Girl and a Gun to be introduced to the fact that there is a progression. We can find out where you're at and it can be ground zero, right? You may have zero or you might have a little and you know, ain't no shame in your game if you come with something fantastic. And to know that there is a next step and the bouncing ball will go forward and we will snowball you and your skills to follow your interests. And then it can be interest-driven is another big thing that most new people have no idea. A lot of folks come into this and a lot of folks have over the past 2 years, 3 years come into firearms from a very, from a place of need, I'll say, a place of—

Scarcity, concern, and distress, quite honestly.

And that vulnerability is terrifying, paralyzing in and of itself.. But what many of these folks have discovered is they have, is that has been the catalyst to introduce them into the world of firearms. That while they have cultivated defensive skill sets and understand the laws and legalese of their environment as it relates to home defense, concealed carry, self-defense law within your state and federal levels, that they have a passion for other genres that they never even knew existed. So just because you start in competition doesn't mean you're locked in there, or because you you've started in self-defense doesn't mean you can't branch out and be like, oh my gosh, I'm in love with steel. Because who isn't in love with steel?

It's like, you hear the ping, that instant gratification, man. Every time.

Or not. Just do till you get, you know, we get you there.

Oh my gosh, steel was my arch nemesis when I started. I cannot tell you— well, I can tell you because I'm about to, um But it's like, I was in competition and like there'd be one 8-inch plate and that would be 2 mags worth because I didn't know what the heck I was doing. And so I'm just like— and for those of you don't understand what I'm talking about, it's like usually there's multiple things you need to shoot, so taking an entire magazine worth of ammo, not so awesome.

So you're about 4 hours of knowledge away from fixing that. We got You know, that's the other piece. And kind of the final part of answering that question is like, just because you found a hole in your skill sets, there is a solution to it, and there is going to be an instructor or an organization or an entity or a class that will fill that void for you. So no question comes without an answer in this community. And if you are in an environment where people are not hearing you ask those questions, it's time to find another environment. Because the limitations might only be who you've surrounded yourself with and I'm alluding to the fact that many people begin at with by learning from the people in their immediate family and friend circle. So it's very— you might discover you outgrow them faster than they're prepared for you to outgrow them and that is okay. That is what people like Brooke and I and A Girl and a Gun are here to help you take those next steps based on you.

And here's something I never thought about when I was looking, which is pick up the phone and actually call the instructor you're considering talking to. But I, I never had that idea. I'm like, I'd look at the— I'm like, okay, firearms training, and then here's all these things. I'm like, I don't even know, I don't even know, I don't know. I'm like, if I had the thought to— if I had picked up the phone, we are always happy to talk to you about what your training needs, if this is a fit or not. Because if you're not a fit for me, here's the really cool thing: I've got people like T that I can send you to if, you know, maybe you need something she's got, or maybe you're shotgun and rifle, and, you know, and I've got other people that I can refer you to. So ideally, if they're a good instructor, and even if they're not the good fit, they'll have someone to send you to. Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Because like you started in the beginning, the whole thing of we're not in competition because we understand there's lots of people who need training and we're happy to find the— help you find the person that's gonna do that for you.

Okay, ready? This is the stumper.

This is the hard question.

Are you ready?

I think so.

What are you most proud of? You know, there's a lot of moments. And there's—

and that's the same answer everyone else gives, just so you know.

And you know, that's a real gift that we have. Hold on, I'm going to put you back up there. No problem. We get to work with so many people. I mean, all those proud moments come from helping someone overcome a fear, helping them break through a past traumatic experience, helping them take back their own power. That is so incredible. Incredibly soul satisfying. And I don't think— I mean, anybody who's an instructor worth their ilk isn't in this for the celebritizing of themselves. We're in this because we have a passion for the people we get to meet and work with. And it's a real honor to have an opportunity to work with these folks all over the country, all ages. So that is something to be really proud of. I think as far as my career goes, What am I the most proud of is the evolution that I've been able to contribute to within the organization that is A Girl and a Gun. I came into it about 6 years ago. It is in its 11th year and it is, it has changed and evolved so much. And in that time I've watched the proficiency of thousands of women across the country elevate from rookie to formidable. And that is unbelievable.

And just so we're clear, I'm one of those people. I was there, one of your, uh, your first Girl and a Gun, and I still use stuff and remember stuff that you said from that class because we were talking about concealed carry at the time. Yes, we're in the clubhouse and someone asked a question. I don't remember exactly what the question was, but it had to do with clothing because we were talking about how, um, solids versus patterns, that patterns are better. And she's like, well, but I don't like them. And I, I believe your response is— how I quote you, whether it's correct or not— but was, what's more important, your life or your fashion sense? And I love that. Because of you, I went on that, that, uh, clothing shop thing that you suggested, uh, at our last private thing.

Um, Stitch Fix or something.

Yeah, yeah, it's one of those Stitch Fix things. So now yours truly, who used to be solids all the time, has learned to embrace the florals and the prints and all of that. And so it's just, it's just sort of fun because I guess like 6 years ago, that is probably when we met at a Girl and a Gun out in Texas somewhere. Um, and it's just like, but I just think about, it's like, as an instructor Do you remember that one thing that you said in that class 6 years ago? No, but as your student, I do. And I think that's part of also what keeps us going as instructors is like, we never know how we're going to be able to help you fix you— not fix you, but help you improve, that sort of stuff— or give you something that is worthwhile. And so it's fun stuff. All right. So like that, onto our last one. I know that we talked about before one of the things, but is there anything else in general that you want to share?

Sure. So we found out a couple of weeks ago, my husband and I, that we are expecting a surprise. We're calling it our encore baby. We're both a little bit older and weren't really planning on this, but you know, in true Jurassic Park fashion, life will find a way. So we're expecting our fourth total child into our family, and as a result of that, that's led to some unexpected but really interesting changes for an interim period until itty-bitty arrives, in that being pregnant, lead exposure is a no-no. Indoor, outdoor handling, etc., is a big no-no. And given that I am considered— this is a real great way to make a gal feel good— considered a geriatric pregnancy, which, thanks.

We're not talking about age, we're not telling anyone, but okay. I think that's only after 29.

I'm sure that's what they're talking about. 35. So I am older than 35 by a lot, but you know, it's fine. So as a result of that, My doctors are keeping me pretty chill and not in the air and, you know, keeping it low-key. But what I'm doing as a result of that is a lot of lead-free training. So I'm shifting all of my work into a lead-free environment. So I'm doing a ton of work with Umarex and the Walther line of air pistols through Umarex. So I'm still able to work within the same platforms and get all of those reps and practice time in doing a ton of dry fire sessions, virtual private lessons, all of that stuff. Safe cleaning practices. So I'm unrolling an entire new world, not just for those expectant mama shooters that are out there, but anybody who's really kind of in a lead-sensitive time in their life for whatever the medical reasons may be. Or if you have a minor who you're trying to limit lead exposure to, or you're working through a quarantine-like situation where getting to the range or budgetarily getting to the range is a challenge. A lot of these lead-free options are phenomenal. You know, working with the Mantis system, for example, to really get data and feedback from your dry fire sessions so that when you do take it live, it's got more weight and merit and you can diagnose yourself at a minute level. So it's been a fun, almost like I get to nerd out in a whole new way, you know.

I like being the nerd.

So there's that. Super nerd. And I am so proud of my nerdiness. Yes. So that transition has been actually very eye-opening and I'm dabbling in all kinds of sciencey stuff and I'm really getting into it.

So, all right. So are you posting stuff about this on Instagram?

Where do you post the most? So I post pretty universally across LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram, and I'm gonna be striking back up a blog which I haven't done in years, so that's gonna be coming back online, and a lot of video tutorials support that because I can't be on the road, so I have studio time for the first time. I'm kind of excited about that. You know, it's, it's gonna be a lot of fun. So in August, we're rolling out the complete series, will start to unfold, and those articles will go go live, videos will launch, online virtual private lessons are good to go as of now, and I'll be kicking back in the live streaming webinar series that I had, plus some new topics which we ran throughout COVID. So here we go, we're back, we're back online, we're digital.

There you go, maybe I'll have time then to do some training with you again. Absolutely. All right, so anyone who's got health issues or pregnancy and has questions, um, yeah, definitely check out all the stuff because who knows when they're watching this because this is live recorded, but of course the replay is forever. So, um, but yeah, because people always ask us like, well, I'm pregnant, what do I do? And as we know, some doctors just think you're crazy if you have a firearm. So it's like afraid to ask your doctor what you can and can't do. So it's kind of cool that you're in this situation. So you get to walk people through it. And I'm assuming that your doctor's cool with firearms because it's easier to have a doctor that's cool with firearms when you're an instructor.

Yes. Yes. It is always a little scary when you bring it up the first time.

So, all right. Well, congratulations again on— wait, number 4, you said?

I lost count already.

Total. This will be our family's 4th. All right. And, um, So very cool on getting nerdy. Like I said, I'll get all the links down here for all the stuff we talked about. And that's it. I just went through my list because I have a short attention span. So people like, why aren't these longer? We want you to talk forever. I'm like, no, no, no, you're lucky to get me in front of a computer for 15 minutes and this has been 30. So with that, thank you again for your time and congratulations again and again and again because very exciting. And I look forward to seeing you live and in person again somewhere, maybe next year at a Girl and a Gun.

Yes, I will be back on the road for our national conference next year in April. Okay, cleared hot to go back to the range.

Not that she's planning ahead or anything because she's already got 2023 figured out and what the dates are, I'm guessing.

Actually, yes, it's entirely booked and the programs are live.

So yeah, people used to think I was crazy and like, they're like asking for a weekend in September, October, and it's only January. I'm like, oh yeah, no, not that one, but this one.

So, well, thank you for having me on, Brooke, and thank you for championing this series. I think it's fantastic.

All right, well, thanks again, and I'm going to click on the end broadcast thing and we'll— goodbye, goodbye! Oh, I have to hit it twice, it drives me crazy.