Suicide Prevention Sat - Special Guest Michael Sodini

Very often. All right, poof, just like that, magic. You hit the live broadcast thing, there it is. You say hi, welcome replay viewers, because y'all are the only ones who ever, uh, get to watch the beginning of this. Um, but yeah, we got 1 minute because usually I'm late, so now I'm trying to be like 5 minutes early, you know. Tonight it's 1 minute early. Um, and, uh, yeah, I forget to turn off my notifications. So at— in a minute, at 9 o'clock, I will actually introduce you and we will actually start the show.

It sounds good.

And so, but yeah, it's so weird because normally I have to sit here and talk to myself for like a minute and it feels like forever. So, all right, poof, just like that, 9 o'clock Eastern Standard Time. What time is it where you are? Are you in Eastern?

I don't know, it's 6 o'clock.

6 o'clock. Oh, that's why you can go for 13 hours.

I can go for 30 in Las Vegas.

All right, all right. So, uh, it's 9 o'clock. It is Suicide Prevention Saturday. Uh, my name is Brooke Cheney, and I am the owner and instructor here at Great Start Shooting School, which is the, the, the thing is further away from me because it's over Mike's head and I can't poke over there. So, and, uh, we have DJ here already. Oh, DJ, you better be the first like, otherwise D-Web's coming in here. So, uh, Brooke Cheney, Great Start Shooting School. I am here because 2 out of every 3 gun deaths you hear about in the media when they talk about gun violence is suicide by gun. Is that right, Mike? Do I have the terminology? I'm still working on it, man.

Yeah, yeah, no, suicide by firearm, suicide by gun, life with firearm. I mean, there's different ways to say it. I know that we've had this discussion about language before and what people want to hear, especially from the mental health side. So we're always trying to correct that, you know.

So yeah, and I'm working on it because like we, um, So yeah, because you interviewed me on your Walk the Talk America about a year ago or so, give or take, within a month or so actually. And you guys educated me on the proper terminology. So with that, since I already know Mike, but y'all that are watching may or may not know Mike, this is Michael Sodini. He is from Walk the Talk America. And with that, I'm just going to throw him to the wolves and say, all right, Mike, tell everybody what you do at Walk the Talk America. Just, you know, you're 60-second commercial or so. Thank you.

Absolutely. Thanks for having me, and it's good to see you. You know, it's good to see you again. So, um, yeah, I founded Walk to Talk America in 2018, and basically when I first started Walk to Talk America, the idea was, um, to try to throw money at mental health and say, hey guys, like, we'll raise the money that you need, that you talk about in all these position papers, say that you've been underfunded. What if it came from the gun industry? I know that the mental health industry works a lot with the, uh, big pharma, and I thought, okay, their money's our money's good too. What I found out really quickly is that this is something you can't just throw money at. They don't have the answers. They, they don't know. I mean, I originally wanted to go in and stop mass shootings. They actually are the ones that steered me back to suicide by firearm. In the beginning, I couldn't understand that, right? I was like, no, no, I want to do suicide by firearm as well, but I want to stop mass shooters. They're like, it's like finding a needle in a haystack. These are the mental health professionals. Professionals, right? This is nobody from the gun side pushing me back to suicide prevention. And that was a very depressing day when I found out that they didn't have answers and it wasn't going to be as easy as putting money into this. So it forced me to kind of look back and look back into the industry and say, okay, we can't give legislation, we can't budge on that. But we— what can we do, right? What can we do as firearms manufacturers and, you know, I guess the influencers and everything like that. What can we do to help? We have valuable space.

Wait, wait, just so, because some people don't know who you are. So when you say we, are you talking about us gun owners? Are we talking about gun shop owners? When you say we, who you're talking about?

I'm talking about the gun manufacturers because that's where I come from, right? I was in importing, and before I did Walk the Talk America, I owned Eagle Imports, which is one of the largest importers in the United States. It's no longer there. I sold it, um, and, and they're out of business now. But, uh, you know, I used to bring in— just so the audience understands, um, I was one of the smaller guys, right? Uh, but we used to represent manufacturers that weren't big enough to have their own manufacturing in the US. So you take brands like Bersa from Argentina, uh, Grand Power from Slovakia, uh, American Classic from the Philippines, right? Uh, SPS from Spain. So what they would do is find a guy like me. I would represent them in the US. I would handle their distribution, their sales, their warranty, their customer service. So it was like a turnkey operation for them. I'd build their brand in the US and we would do between 60,000 to 80,000 guns a year and we didn't have any law enforcement or military contracts. So, you know, I always go back to like when I talk in front of mental health people, I want them to understand how many guns there are out there. That number that we say that is for the US, I, I don't believe it. I think it's a lot higher because I was doing the math, right? I'm looking at it like if I was a little guy selling 60,000 to 80,000 guns a year, you have your Rugers, your Smith Wessons, your Glocks, you have HKs, you know, Hi-Points, whatever, all these other people. And, you know, it really shows you that if, if you have a problem with guns, it's the same thing as if someone says I have a problem with great white sharks and then they go swimming in the Pacific Ocean, especially San Francisco Bay, right? You're surrounded by them.

They're everywhere, right? Right. Yeah. And I mean, and especially like, it's sort of like the everything thing is that this week is Gun Violence Prevention Week. And one of the things DC Project were talking about is how, no, we want to stop all violence. You know, we want to address it. It's not just about the guns ever, as much as the media generally wants to make it all about the firearms.

So yeah, it's very frustrating to me. I just recently spoke at an event in California. I was invited by San Jose State I was speaking at an event. I actually took a lot of heat for this, but it was an event for Veterans and Moms Demand Action, right? And the whole principle behind Walk Talk America is I want to be everywhere. Like, if you're making decisions about me or you're trying to champion for something like restrictions, I want to be there to tell my side of the story, right? And come from and represent the gun industry. And I know a lot of people are like, you can't reason with those people or you shouldn't be there. Well, let me tell you, that's why they're winning. That's why they win. I went to San Jose State and I said, when did they get to coin the phrase like end gun violence? Like everybody in the gun industry or everybody on our side wants to end gun violence too. Why do they get that? I was like, let's take that back first of all. I'm up there giving my speech in front of all these students and everybody that attended the thing in front of an end gun violence sign. I'm like, that's mine. Right there. Like, I'm taking that from you guys, and we're bringing the focus back to suicide by firearm. That's two-thirds of all the firearm deaths. You know, it— this is why you need to go. But one of the interesting things about it is, um, I saw how coordinated Moms Demand Action was. And, uh, I was there with Jake, and it was very interesting to see what they did before we went up to speak, because we were the first ones to speak, which I, which I was so thankful for, because like I said, you know, after I came up there with the facts, uh, and, and, and, you know, I'm not The Moms Demand people, they were very polite. Everybody was nice to me. Um, but it was very interesting. They handed out a piece of paper, um, to everybody in the crowd. And basically, when she got up there, when it was her time to go, she said, uh, who here wants to end gun violence? And everybody put their hand up. Yeah. And she said, okay, what I want you to do is take out that piece of paper and take out your phone. Why don't you scan barcode number 1? Scan it, want you to fill out your information. Brilliant, right?

I look at Jake, it's like in there doing it right there, right?

They're all sending messages to legislators and everything from their phone. They made it super simple for them to do under the guise of gun violence. Half these kids that did it probably didn't even realize, like, they're just like, hey, I want to end gun violence. Like, it's like saying, who doesn't want to kill puppies, right? Everyone's gonna be like I want— I don't want puppies to die. And that's how, how coordinated and clever they are.

And I really didn't know. Absolutely. I've been to a Moms Demand Action meeting. I did not speak there. I was just there. I was just curious to see what it was like. And it's like you get welcomed in and they give you a shirt and they sit down and talk about the legislation that's working or not working. And the meeting I went to was not necessarily so spectacular. Oh, but really quick. DJ Play Nights was saying yes to that. I think he was mentioning, talking about when you said it's like we need to take back the end gun violence stuff. My challenge from the beginning though has always been stop talking about gun violence, let's talk about the whole enchilada. Like that's where I started my commitment to fighting it, us versus— yeah, I can read, I swear. That's why I put them up so y'all can read them instead. But yeah, ending gun violence is one thing, but sort of like what you started with where, you know, you were looking at mass shooters because that's what's in our faces, right? Right. Mass shooters, oh my gosh, Sandy Hook, you know, Pulse Nightclub. But then when they take it off the air and you actually go to look to find it, it's that needle in a haystack. It doesn't happen that often. It's horrible when it occurs, but how we— you and I both got to the same place, just different routes— is that, oh, suicide is, is like that huge portion of numbers. And it's just like when, you know, people like Moms Demand Action go and put little baby shoes out on, you know, the, the front steps of the White House, it's just like, babies? No. Teens? Yes. Pre-teens?

Yes. Yeah. The first thing that I start off my speech with when I go up there and talk, or when I talked at that event As I said, you know, this is who I am, this is what we do. And I said, who here knows about the October 1 shooting, right? Mandalay Bay. And then they all— everybody's raising their hand, right? I said, we lost 58 people that day, 59. Now it's like 61 because some people die from their injuries like a year later. But, you know, I said, so you have 59 people that day that died in that massacre. I said, Does anyone know how many people we lose a day to suicide by firearm? And everyone's just kind of sitting there. I say 67. So 67 people die a day for suicide by firearms. I said, we have an October 1 shooting every day that the media doesn't want to tell you about. And basically it is because it doesn't sell ad space. It's not sexy, right? But imagine if they put the names of everybody every day that took their life with a firearm and they ran it down the screen almost like they did with the COVID stuff, right? It would— people would really understand that this is what we need to address. And that's what you're doing.

All right, so, well, that's what we're doing, right? I mean, part of it is that the whole idea is to raise awareness of suicide because nobody wants to talk about it. Like, honestly, as I'm talking right now, as I say the word suicide, every so often I get goosebumps because it's a horrible thing. It is. It— people lose so much, and the person who's committing suicide or dying by suicide, it's like they've lost it all, and, and they— it's Like I said, I only have my own personal experience to go from where it's like I thought if I was no longer in the world that everyone else would be happier without me. But the truth of the matter was I was making an excuse because I was in so much pain. I didn't want to have to deal with the pain anymore. And so it's just like, I don't know what it's like. I mean, because I don't know, I'm sure it's the same for you, Mike, but it's like the people that tell me the stories, it's like just over Christmas because the holidays are brutal. One of my friends, one of his friends, a veteran— as we know, veterans are disproportionate in the number of people who are, um, suicide by firearms. Um, he didn't do it by firearm. He poured a gallon of gas over his body and lit himself on fire. And it's just like, imagine the kind of pain and suffering that there is. So It's, for me, it's very personal because I've been there, felt that. But at the same time, um, it also is the whole idea that I, I want the pain for people to end. And I mean, I know we're not going to save the world, but we can make dents in it here and there, is my hope.

Yeah, I, I don't know what that feels like. I have never been that dark, and I'm fortunate. Um, but I, I assume it feels like 9/11 when you saw people having to make decision to jump off of the building or burn, right? And they were making that decision. And that's probably at that moment, they're— it's your personal 9/11, right? The pain is so much that you, you feel like the only way out is to go, right? Like, that's— I think, you know, we need to understand that and appreciate it. And it's a very serious thing. And I lost the president of my company when I owned Eagle Imports in 2009 to suicide by firearms. He, um, he, he had something tragic happen in his world and, and he just thought he couldn't get out of it. And he went to our office and he took a firearm out of our warehouse and, and he went home and he completed the act. And it was like, we were— we didn't, we didn't come, right?

Right. Yeah. And that, that is definitely the other question I get all the time is, how do you tell? How do you tell? How do you tell? And I mean, I like, um, like I said, um, so everyone else can see, because some people are on Facebook and some are on, uh, YouTube, so they can't see. But what DJ says about the universal intent of firearms folks. We care about mental health and those who face issues and struggle and survival. And the other part of it to me is that, to me, all the firearms people that I know, whether they're competitors like myself or they're self-defense people, it's about saving lives. It's not about taking them. It's not about feeling like some cocky cowboy because I've got a gun on my hip kind of thing, which is often how various groups will portray us, right?

Right. Well, that was what— so a little bit about my background, um, and I don't know if I've ever told you this, but I, I didn't grow up with firearms. I grew up in two of the worst places you could grow up around firearms. Even though my family had that business, they, they weren't firearms people, right? And then I kind of nicknamed the ungun gun guy, right? And that came from growing up in New Jersey and San Francisco, right? Those are the two places I grew up. So I didn't have friends that were hunting. But so what happened was when I got into the industry after I graduated college, I went into the industry kind of with a very open mind. I didn't realize people had hatred towards gun people. I didn't even know that it was a thing, you know what I mean? It wasn't until like I was on the road and I'd be out at a bar talking to like a young lady or something, and then I'm like, yeah, I work in guns, and they were just like looking at me like I was the angel of death, you know? I'm like, what, the marriage is off? Like, what? You know, but that was the thing I noticed with gun people. Being at the gun shows, right? I was like, these are good people, even though I don't necessarily relate to them because I didn't grow up hunting, or I, you know, I had to learn about the firearms. I said, I've never seen any of them cheer when there's a mass shooting. As a matter of fact, as business owners, I remember like us just being sick to our stomach. Um, they're good people, and that's the side that you don't see. And the media portrays it as, you know, we're just sitting around counting our money, you know.

Yeah, and people are dying on the streets. Right, right. It's like, I mean, it's obviously Sandy Hook, a whole 20 minutes from me. And it was one of those things where it's just like, it happened on a Friday and my kids were in school, and I actually drove through Sandy Hook that day and I didn't know that was what was going on. I noticed some police, but I didn't have any idea until I got home. One of those really awful things when you got home, you realize what you just drove through. Um, but It's one of those things where it's just like, as gun owners, it's Friday, a bunch of children have just been killed, and there are politicians and people saying, take the guns away, take the guns away. And all I can think is, there are parents that have to figure out funeral arrangements for their 5 and 6-year-olds. How about you have a little decorum and maybe just grieve with them the way that most people are? And I know the NRA actually got crap for not coming out for a full week, and I felt like that was the polite thing to do. So I mean, it is, it is interesting how it all goes. And I have to apologize to my Facebook viewers because I just realized, because I set this up so early, we weren't on Facebook until now. So I'm gonna do a little mini introduction for you.

Yeah, absolutely. We got 60 more hours.

We got 60 more hours. Yes. For those of you just joining us, uh, this is Michael Sudini from Walk the Talk America. I am actually getting his other half on my show on Wednesday. We're gonna have a surprise pop-up bonus time, um, and I'll try to get that on Facebook when I actually put it up. He is the Ungun Gun Guy. We are talking about suicide prevention and the gun industry and the general, general how we can help make things better and raise awareness to suicide. So there you go. For all of you guys on YouTube, you've seen all of this, but for those of you on Facebook, thanks for checking in now. Sorry I'm late. I really was on time. If you want to watch the beginning, go back to YouTube.

Thanks. That's true. We were talking 10 minutes early.

Oh, all right. So what can I do? What do you tell people when they ask you, what can I do?

Oh, well, it depends on who's asking, right? Um, but if it's just a regular person that is a, a fan of kind of what we do, and they may be a gun owner or they may be a mental health clinician, we, we tell them, get involved any way you can, right? Because not everybody has money, right? But money would be nice, right? That's the best way to get involved if you're a an arm's length distance and you don't have time, right? Because we need to keep the lights on. I mean, I spent the first 2 years of doing this funding it myself. We didn't take donations. Well, we took donations, I just, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, um, everybody that is involved in this has done it for the love of the game. So everything was donated for free and in kind, which is great. But if you want to go out there and make a difference, I think the best thing that you can do is promote it on social media. That always helps. Promote it with your local gun shops. You know, we have flyers that we, uh, we get into the gun shops. Many of them put them on their counters. Talk to the manufacturers, tell them to get behind the organization, tell them that you want them to have some corporate social responsibility because that's really what it is. Um, you know, there's different ways you can help. You can go to our website. We actually break down the different ways that you can help depending on where who you are and what you do.

All right, so wait a second, wait a second. Ready? I can be super fancy. Give me a sec. All right, where on your website should people go?

Oh, they should go under Support Us. Okay. Yeah.

And then support—

other ways to help. Yeah, or other ways to help.

Got it. Um, my— yeah, so see that we break it down: individuals, store owners, Oh, and you know what, here, I'm just going to cut and paste this in the chat because goodness knows I don't know how to enlarge it yet. It's not one of my superpowers, so I'm sure everyone else is squinting at it like this too right now. Um, but yeah, and what are their, um, what is your stuff gonna say? What does it, um, what am I trying to say? Like, what information does Walk the Talk America put out there for people to see?

Well, here's, here's an example of one I have right here. So this is our, our mental health flyer. You could see this on the website. It's available for download PDF. Basically what it does is it leads to free anonymous mental health screenings, which is powered by our partner Mental Health America. And they are a mental health rights organization. They've, they've been around forever. They're the longest running They are gun neutral. They've come out and put that in statements. They don't believe that taking away your gun rights is the answer. I, I like their approach to the way they handle gun things, even though I can tell that they're not gun people. But that's fine, because this is what this is all about. It's about educating. But they do have these screenings, and we get gun shops, we get firearms trainers, we get gun manufacturers, optic manufacturers, uh, to put this in their boxes. Right? And what's cool about that is we're taking that first step. We're doing it. And this particular card is one for the retail store. So in the back, we leave this blank. And what we do is we have mental health clinicians that take our cultural competence course, and they're certified to speak gun language or understand the gun owners. And they stamp the back of these and they put them in their local gun shop. So it creates that, that bridge, that network between the firearm shops and the mental health clinicians. One thing I'm pretty proud of here is this is Armscor's ammo boxes. Armscor is the first ammo manufacturer to put the mental health screenings on the side of the box. It's very little there. You can't see it, but it's there.

We all believe you. We really do.

Yeah. And it's gone so well. The feedback that they've gotten from buying public has been amazing because they're doing that. Once again, we go back to that corporate social responsibility. And I'm I'm, I'm happy to say that AmmoLink is reaching out and we're going to have that same type of deal. And I'm encouraging people like Hornady who's jumping on board. You know, these are all meetings that I had at SHOT Show. So this is—

oh yeah, okay, so, so we have, we have one person, Gina, who would met you at SHOT Show.

So she said, yeah, yeah, I've known Gina for a while. So we've run in the same circles.

Yeah, yeah, well, Gina runs in every circle, let's be real. All of the circles. Whatever circle there is, Gina will be in it taking a selfie. Right, right. Um, AF says great concept on what we're working on, uh, apparently since we were talking about patches before because DJ's friends with gun websites. Uh, so yeah, so it's really, really cool. Um, and yes, I will— I'm going to defer because you and I have so many things to talk about, but I'm gonna talk to Jake and make a little note here to talk about the cultural competency a little bit more. So those of you want to know what cultural competency is and what the training is, we'll talk about that on Wednesday. So I'm going to leave that out there as a breadcrumb for y'all to come back.

So, but this whole concept, I mean, this is the great thing about this. And, you know, I've worked for 3 and a half years at this and it took a while, right? But now you're seeing it. And now these meetings that I had at SHOT Show, I mean, this is the first SHOT Show where I wasn't just pinned to a booth, whether that be for the business side or for WTTA, but I truly believe that the gun companies are starting to understand it, that we can get to where the alcohol industry got with DUIs. Yeah, right. We don't want to go where it went with smoking. We want to be what the alcohol industry did with DUIs. Like, that's where we want to go, right? Nobody's blaming Johnny Walker when you get behind the car and do something stupid, right, or tragic. And we can get there, and I think it's important for us to do it first. So like, when I take meetings, and I know you do, and you're out there on the front lines at the DC Project, I was just in California talking with somebody, a staunch Democrat who is a gun owner, and I was showing them the things that we do. Yeah, he was blown away. Like, he was like, I couldn't— I could have never imagined that a gun or ammo manufacturer put that inside the box. If we do it first, they can't make us do it.

And then, yeah, and that's just— it isn't— sadly, the truth of the matter is, having been in politics now for over 10 years as a politician Um, it's awful, like how many of these laws that they come up with, I'm like, yeah, we already do that. Yeah, we already do that. You got— I mean, they don't take any time to think about what they're like, well, this should fix stuff. I'm like, it's already been on the books since 1968. Thank you very much. Uh, do some research before you just start throwing stuff.

Um, and coming from that, that's gonna be so hard for them to do, right? It's like something I'm completely not interested in. It's hard for me to go there. So that's why— so this goes back to what I was saying earlier about like me going to San Jose State and speaking of that event. We have to be there. Yeah, if we, if we go, screw that, no, don't, don't talk to them, they're the enemy, then, then they control the narrative, they control everything, right? And we can't point out—

are you familiar with this guy? Some people know his name, Elon Musk. Yes. All right, so Elon Musk was actually given a raft of crap because when Trump was our president, he invited Elon there to talk about some stuff. And Elon was talking about this and how that so many people were pissed at him for talking to Trump. And I'm just like, you and Elon Musk are on the same boat with me of that you have to talk to everyone because this us versus them thing is never going to work. And, and it's just like the whole idea is that, uh, there's another guy who I'm not going to mention his name, but one of my favorite quotes that he has is Imagine for a moment the person you're talking to might know something you don't and actually listen. Um, and the reason I'm not saying his name is because he's controversial, but that's okay because I like controversial. So, um, but yeah, it— to me, talking to the other people, whoever the other people are, like, I mean, I used to— I, I told Di that I'm like, I'm sad that I'm the DC Project Director now because I have to wear my DC Project loud and proud.. And I used to always go and hide. Like, I'd walk in like just one of the regular moms, and I'd be chatting with the moms, and we'd be having a lovely time. And then somebody's like, oh, what do you do? I'm like, oh, I'm a firearms instructor. And the ones that were fully, you know, full Kool-Aid went pale and walked away, whereas the other ones that were there because someone invited them to go were interested and wanted to know more. And there was lots of little things like the 2 out of every 3 firearms deaths being a suicide, the amount of people that are blown away by that. And that's why that's like, I try to start every show like that. I try to every person I talk to tell that because like people don't know, they just have no idea. And so I do love what you're doing with getting the manufacturers to go out there So basically we need to strong-arm a lot more manufacturers to put more stuff in your— more of your stuff in their boxes.

And we do. And, you know, here's the interesting thing about that. There's an angle that someone brought my attention to at SHOT Show, which I never even thought about. So I started using it in my pitch. John Renzulli, when he saw this box, right, when he saw the Armscor box with that, he said, I never really thought about the legal angle, like when I'm defending a gun company that we can use this when we're being sued with a frivolous lawsuit, right, to say we did everything we were supposed to do. We provided the resources for this gun owner or this person to get help, right? And I, I was just like, man, I wish I'd been talking about that for 2 years to try to convince them to, to do this. But they are— I, I don't want to sound like they're, they're not. I, I think, you know, I had some great meetings with Taurus. I have Walter, Smith Wesson. I, I think they're starting to understand that this is the way we need to do— we need to take control of this and we need to be better at them.

And I want to show everybody this real quick if I can do this proper, like, because, um, I was watching another interview about you guys, Walk the Talk America. Oh, apparently that does not want to work according— hold on, let me, uh, it's like a nightclub. I know, we're going to a dance club. Never mind, I thought I was gonna do it. So, um, the free screenings are really cool and I was gonna try to show y'all the actual, um, The Walk to Talk America— when you go to walktotalkamerica.org, in the upper right-hand corner there's a green button that says free screenings, and it's really cool. And there's some very cool stories about people going and doing them. And, uh, I don't know if it was an interview— I can't remember if it was with you or whether it was Jake— but do you have any cool stories about people taking the free screenings?

Oh, I have a ton of stories. They become anecdotal at some point, right? Because you're just you're getting the process. But one of the best stories that I want to tell, uh, how I got the idea to incorporate the screenings— remember I told you earlier that when I had the worst day of my life was when I realized that the mental health community had nothing for us, right? They didn't have any easy answers. And they were like, we could write the answers together. And I'm like, no, that's what I want to give you the money for. You already say you do them.

You do them. I see my house. I'm like, no, my house. I do not actually want to clean my house.

But so yeah, it's— so I, uh, I was in this very same office that I'm in right now, and one day my daughter walks into the office and she says, uh, Dad, I think I suffer from anxiety. And, uh, I grew up in a very Italian New Jersey family that if I were to have said that to any of the members of my family, including some of my, my cousins who are my age, they would have said, I'll give you something to have anxiety about, and you just kept it moving, right?

I had a dad like that a little bit. Yeah, I mean, let me give you something to that about?

Right? We all do. When you hit this certain age, you have this generation thing where that's the— that was the answer to it, right? And, but the cool thing about working with Mental Health America was a teachable moment for my daughter, because I said, hey, listen, I need you to go on the website, the organization you hear Daddy talk about all the time, and I need you to take the screening for anxiety. And I want you to answer it honestly. And I left it at that. Couple days pass, she comes back, she hands me the mail in the office. On her way out, she's like, Dad, Dad, I took the thingy. As an 11-year-old, right? It's a thingy. I said, well, what is that? She said, the, the anxiety thing. She smiles, right? And she's super, super ear-to-ear grin. And she says, uh, I only have mild anxiety. And, uh, I said, that's a good thing, right? I said, you feel better? She said, yeah, yeah. I'm actually going to give this to a couple of my friends, tell them to take screening too. So at that moment, I said, well, how do I incorporate this into the firearms industry. So I started creating these bands, right? Um, and that's really what this is. This is what we first started passing out at gun shows like SHOT Show and everything.

I want to see— send me a box of those. I, I'm doing a, a women's expo next month.

You send me a box.

Where are you going? I'm going to be in Bridgeport. Okay. It's, it's a girls' show. See, this is the other part about— I'm not going to gun shows, I'm going to where general businesses are. Because that's— because I don't know about you, but the fact that you and I both know Gina and we both know G-Webs, and we actually have a really tiny community when it comes to it. And my whole thing is to make that bridge out and about like you did with Jake, right? Right. It is like, even if you are the ungun gun guy, it's still a matter of going further beyond so that all those people, when they see the headline you know, what was the number for October 1st?

60— what, it was like 61, but 59 that night, right?

Yeah. So 59 versus how many are dying by suicide every single day?

Yeah, 67. 67 people. I will send you a box of these with different sizes, and I'll also send you our flyers so you can pass them out. So, you know, you just got to give me a good address and I can send it out this weekend. I will, I will. Now the cool thing about this though is that it opened up a ton of conversation at the shows, right? Because that was my first thing. I wanted to, I wanted to feel like, okay, I want to feel the climate. And, and what I found is that the shows, like, people were— I mean, we had some people in tears, we had people giving me a hug, like, thank God you guys are doing this, right? Because I think what the industry needed is they needed one person who owned a gun company to step forward and be like, okay. Because that— what, what came of it when I, I didn't get like destroyed by the NRA or NSSF didn't come over and go like, what are you doing, you know, like working with mental health?

No, no, no, no.

Has their own, right? Yeah. But there was a time in the industry when if you even talked to a mental health person, you were considered talking to the enemy. You see what I'm saying? Because yeah, well, we were so afraid it was gonna be weaponized.

DJ's thing about all of us were like, you can do this, you can get through this. I mean, whether you're a guy or a girl, it was maybe said differently, but everybody— and it— and so here's the truth of the matter, really, right? It's not even just the gun industry that was like, you know, don't say anything about mental health. Obviously you're supposed to be strong enough. Like, like you said, you are fortunate enough to never know what it feels like to feel suicidal. I, on the other hand, have that lovely experience. But, um, I wouldn't change a thing because if all the things in my life didn't happen the way they did, I would not be here talking to you, um, because I would be someone else.

And now you have a purpose and a mission, right, on top of everything else that you had before, like your family and everything like that, doing great things. So it's just, you know, sometimes you need to go through those dark times. I'm actually, you know, we're talking about this, the suicide by firearm. At Chacho, I had dinner with a gentleman who shot himself on October 1st in Las Vegas underneath his chin with a Glock, and he actually lived.

Yeah, actually, it's amazing how many people do that. I mean, not, not statistically, but that anyone's, you know, that, right?

Well, I'm very excited for this kid.

Uh, I say I call everybody kid, he's in his 30s, but, um, I call everyone dude. It doesn't matter what gender you are, I call everyone dude.

No, but I'm excited to, to get his story out there. Um, you know, he's going through a couple surgeries. He actually looks great. He has a trachea. It's a little hard to understand, but like, after a while you get it. But I really believe that he could be the Kevin Hines of the firearms industry because he's super pro-gun. He doesn't blame the gun. He believes that if he had some time and space, but he wants to go out and tell his story because the minute he did it, he knew he didn't want that. He realized, and he's super charismatic, and I think it's going to be very exciting to have somebody be able to tell that story.

And that'll play into what DJ is talking about, support, understanding it, developing it, empathy. Rather than just getting rid of it and trying to get rid of it. Yeah, um, yeah, Clover Tack says she's sad that, uh, they missed it, but I'm like, ah, you haven't missed it. According to Michael, just so you know, I said, you know, normally this is like a 15-minute thing, maybe an hour. He said we should go 16 hours, so plenty of time still.

Hey, what's up, Clover Tack? I saw Clover at, uh, at the SHOT Show, so yeah, yeah, exactly.

So I love Clover's thing here because there are two types of people in the world: those who struggle and those who lie about it. Because my personal opinion is if people think that they don't need counseling, I think they're lying. So me and Clover are eye to eye on that.

But yeah, I don't think it ever hurts to take— to do some therapy, right? Like, you, you really can't go wrong. And you see people fight it. I saw somebody at SHOT Show that, you know, we were sitting around the Circle Bar and one of our friends said to another friend of mine, hey, you need to do therapy, like, you need it. And the guy's like, I don't need that. But it was, it was like that awkward moment. He said it in front of me because I'm, you know, the guy who walks in the mental health circle. But it's true, uh, it— as long as you find a good therapist that works with you, and, and it's not something you have to do all the time, you just go in there every once in a while.

Yeah, it's, it's no different than having a coach. And no, ever— I mean, look, we're in America. People love their football, they love their baseball, they love their basketball. All of that revolves around coaches. And you know what coaches do most of the time? They're actually messing with your head on a regular basis. To get the best out of you. And so maybe we just have to stop calling them therapists and start calling them life coaches. Oh boy, you know, it's, it's that whole thing is like, it's— and I mean, that's definitely one of my things is that I want people to not have that stigma. Now here's the problem though, um, the laws that are out there, right? Like you said, why the gun community is even more about I can't talk to mental health because I'm going to lose my card that says I can have a gun, right? Um, you know, for— and it's just like, uh, in Connecticut we have a statute of limitations as far as how long it's been since you've been in a mental health institution. There is— it doesn't have a sunset. Um, but it's that whole thing of I can't let anyone know I'm broken. If I go, it's going to be my record. And I used to think, oh, that's garbage, whatever, who cares? But then One year, my husband and I, 2020, 2000, around 2000, 2001, I went to get life insurance and we were almost denied. And I'm just like, they're like, you lied on your application. I'm like, what are you talking about? You omitted stuff. And I'm like, I had no idea what they're talking about. And so finally, after going back and forth, back and forth, When my grandmother had died, I asked my doctor about a grief counselor, and I almost didn't get insurance. And that had nothing to do with firearms whatsoever. It was just the stigma around and the laws and the expectation of, well, if you're going to counseling, well, then obviously you need help and you're not a good person. I'm like, no, I think people going to counseling for the most part are the best people, but that's because I am one.

Right, right. No, that's— and that's, that's a very, you know, unfortunate thing, but it's a very true thing. And I think it's important, and it varies from state to state. So, so if you're going to go seek help and you're a firearms owner, you need to understand your law in your state. Like, I tell people all the time, New York State with the New York SAFE Act is not that safe because what's happening now is people will not go get help. Um, we've, we've had some people on our Guns and Mental Health podcast, uh, one particular episode, Sandy Richardson. I, I encourage everybody to listen to that one because she they messed with the wrong person. She was on the mental health side, and, and basically, you know, she had her firearms rights taken away, but she knows the ins and outs of both sides, so she's raising hell out there. But this is what— once again, this is why we need to be everywhere and talk about these things with the other side and the mental health professionals, because every time that I look at a bill, like when I get a bill put in front of me, um, that's anti-gun, I read it through the lens of how does this add to the stigma of mental health and, and put a barrier to access in care, um, you know, right between people. And then I look at it, how it messes with the underprivileged, underserved. So I read it two ways. And then what I do is I slide it over to Mental Health America and I tell them, you go fight this, because what you told me, you— I'm holding you to that standard. You're the one who told me that you're not supposed to do this. And what's go— going back to, they're never going to take the time to read that stuff. We have to do it and hand it to them, right?

And highlight it. Absolutely. To me, it's like, it's always the thing of being a good manager. Um, and just because Clover talks about what I was talking about, I have to throw it up here. But no, as we go, I'm just gonna throw everybody's stuff because the people on Facebook get to see YouTube and back and forth. But, um, yeah, I love the idea of you don't go to counseling because you're not a good person, you go to counseling to be a better person. And so it is, it's like, oh, that's the other thing that one of the things I'm changing on the show is every single Saturday, I'm going to make sure that I leave with at least one self-care mental health awareness thing before we're all done, just so you know, breathing exercise or something. But to be a good manager, my understanding of it is, if I work for you, Mike, and I see something wrong, I don't come to you and say, Mike, this is broken. I say, Mike, I've lost the top to my water bottle, but you know what, I think this will work, and at least give the solution. And if you don't have something that— you can't just complain about stuff. And I think in, in the gun world, we're just like, this isn't right because we've got our Second Amendment rights. And I'm like, doesn't matter, they don't give a crap. But like, we started the conversation, the gun world does want to stop violence just as much as everybody. It's not like we own guns, therefore we expect everyone to die by gun. It's that we all want to stop violence.

So yeah, and that's, you know, that's the thing is like there are laws out there that are ridiculous and, and we have people on the front lines fighting them, but they're there now, right? So, uh, I'll give you an example. I was in, I was in California and I was meeting with somebody out there because there's a bill that's coming down they want to write a bill. Um, actually, I support some legislation that makes sense for gun owners, if that makes sense. So like removing sales tax on all safes so people can buy a safe and it makes it more affordable for everybody, I'm okay with that, right? But I was talking to this gentleman, um, and I was talking about the transfer law and how it— like, where I'm from in Nevada and in California and other states like Colorado, you know, if I'm in crisis and you come over to my house, and even if we're family, um, you can't take the firearm out of my house. You can't remove it. Yeah, he was blown away by that. And he's like, well, what if we added to the bill, um, a Good Samaritan clause? Because, you know, I brought up, hey, there's no Good Samaritan clause. Like, this is what I'm talking about. Some of these bills that you guys write that you think are helping are actually hurting. And, um, He said, well, there should be a Good Samaritan clause. And I'm like, okay, I'll never get this transfer law overturned, but if I can get that Good Samaritan clause written into there, I mean, that's a win for us as the gun community, right?

Absolutely. All right, so DJ's got— I think this is a question, right? So is Walk the Talk America conceptually a cultural awareness, bring the message to the masses as well as individuals to help normalize mental health awareness and acceptance? Is that kind of your mission statement?

Yeah, I think it's become that, right? Because the education piece that— I'll put it this way, the relationships that I have developed, whether it was on the PREVENTS roadmap team in Washington, D.C., because I was on the Suicide Prevention Task Force that the previous administration had, I was the only firearms industry guy in that room.

See, more things we have in common with Elon Musk, right?

Exactly. No, uh, but you know, these are the things, is like, I'm here now to, to get the gun industry off their ass, right? That's, that's really what I want them to do. I want them to be better because I know they can be, and, and I, and I did it myself, right? I, I started with my guns and my manufacturing, but, um, on the other side, I want to become the, the go-to, the resident expert, right? And it's happened already, right? Mental Health America and other organizations, when there's a bill coming down that they've been asked to support, they call me and say, why can't I— why should we not back this?

And I tell them— did they call you or do they call you and Jake?

I just want to know. I bring Jake into everything I do. You know why I do that? Because he's a mental health clinician, and that's first and foremost, right? And he had to come flying out— he'll tell the story on Wednesday— but he had to come flying out of the gun-owning closet. The reason why that's important is that he understands both sides. He has that, right? I don't come from the mental health world, but I will tell you this, I find myself frequently calling upon the people, especially with this administration, that you never would expect, right? So if I go into a room and I'm talking to mental health people on the mental health side and I can't get through to them, I always ask them, hey, you know, if you want to hear from other people. So I rely on people like Kevin Dixie a lot. I rely on Liberal Gun Club, Liberal Gun Owners, right?

Because who better to talk to?

I was just talking to Laura yesterday, right? I mean, I've had amazing meetings where she is— she has said something to somebody and totally changed their perspective because the person she said it to, they're the same person, right, except on the gun issue. She's looking at another Democrat, right? And who cares? They want to be socially conscious. Uh, regardless of how misguided, um, many people think the left is, they're, they're probably, you know, with the exception of some politicians, most of them think they're doing the right thing, right? And that's the one thing that I've always been able to understand. It's like, you don't want people to die. Yeah, you're going down the wrong path of how you think you're protecting people, but I get where you're coming from. Yeah, um, I don't want people to die either. That's, that's how we get along, right?

Exactly.

But, you know, uh, you know, back to the original question is, yeah, I really do feel like, you know, we're putting ourselves in a position for the gun— the gun people to be the good guys now. And, um, I kind of like that.

It's, it's addicting, you know? It is. I mean, and it's just like, it was funny because like a year ago when I was on your show and you guys asked me that question, like, is there that moment when you did something or something happened that makes you thrilled that you're doing what you're doing. And so it's like, what's yours? Since you asked me that, I knew that lit me up. It's like, what's been your favorite aha moment or thing that made you realize, ooh, I am making a difference?

Man, there's been so many. It's been 3 years of this, right? And I get surprised all the time. But I would say one of the things I'm most proud of is There are certain bills I know I've helped get shot down with the help of Mental Health America and reading those. And I see sometimes people taking those bills and making them like Instagram posts and creating like all this fear and like outrage. And I'm like, that's dead in the water. And I, they don't even know it, right? But I'm, I guess the second thing I'm most proud of is just like this, just like Armscor doing this, right? Yeah. Um, I, I had this concept 3 years ago, and, and, you know, I started with my firearms first. And now to see places— people like Hornady and Century and stuff like that jump on board to say we're going to put this flyer in there. Um, I, I think, you know, if I— if it ends today, I, I could say like I made my mark. And we as Walk Talk America have done, done something. We changed a culture, you know, inside the gun industry, because now we people that are like, yeah, I'm probably for my cold dead hands, but I'm also better at you than life, right? I'm also better at you than saving lives. I have more answers. I'm into root cause mitigation. Like, you know, all this legislation you do is nonsense. It's not going to save one more life, even though you think it will. Um, I think that we can kind of turn the tables on everybody. Um, I, I love going into these rooms where I'm with the Brady people and stuff like that, and in every town And, um, you know, you don't have to be a dick, right? Like, you just go in there and kind of show them what you do, and they, they can feel it. You know, when I go into those rooms, I feel like Ali in Olympic Village. Like, it's like, I'm gonna beat you. I'm gonna have more out-of-the-box, uh, solutions that you've never even thought about. I have access to the people that won't even take a meeting with you, right? Like, Ruger's not going to sit down with the Moms Demand Action people. Like, this is gonna happen.

But, um, that's what I'm most proud of.

Yeah.

All right, so let me see. I'm, I'm like, I'm trying to pay attention to you and trying to pay attention to the side. So, uh, G-Webs says, uh, in his, his— I'm surprised he's humble, uh, opinion— but, uh, the gun community is always in favor of helping each other out. Mike and Waka Taka are offering productive actions that the industry can now take to illustrate that positive attitude you've had. And yeah, I'd say I agree with that.

Mike, you agree with that? Yeah, he's 100% right, because now we're doing this once again. Why do you get to be the person that says end gun violence? Like, why, why did you take that phrase away from me? And now we're— I'm telling you, it happens every time. I, I'm on these things called Convergence. There's a group of us, like NSSF's on there, and it's really funny because every solution that, say, a Moms Demand Action or Brady or Everytown has is it's taking your something away, right? And they don't even think about it. Like, I remember the lady from Brady, they were bragging about their ERPO law, and I'm sitting in the, you know, it's a Zoom with like 40 different people of different organizations coming from all different backgrounds of life. And, uh, you know, I walk her through this. I, I said, well, this is great that you have this law and that you think it saves lives. And I said, uh, I'm not here to debate that, but I know plenty of people that don't go get help because of ERPO laws But I have a question, right? I said, you know, I'm a product of nepotism. I, I have the face of privilege. I said, uh, I'm lucky, uh, you know, I work from home. If somebody slapped the ERPLA on me, I could literally, uh, fight it. I can hire lawyers and I can take 3 weeks off of my job to do it, right? And, uh, and they're like looking at me like, where's he going with this? And I said, what about— do you have anything in the ERPLA law that's like a provision that pays for the single mother from comp works 3 jobs, that if she gets slapped with this herbal law, she can't, she can't do anything about it. She just loses her rights. Yeah. And of course it's crickets, right? And then all of a sudden, like, Sherry Murdock from, uh, from this Black organization's like, yeah, what about what Mike just said? That kind of makes sense, right? Like, these are the things that I like to drop bombs. Like, yeah, because you don't have to be a dick about it, right? You literally ask the question. I love it. I got dogs that normally do this to me, but I locked them in the room upstairs. So, but anyways, for the people that are listening, like, these, these are the type of things that you can do. And you— and I don't want to— I hate to kind of sound divisive and say, like, beat them at their own game, but it's, it's getting the platform to actually ask those questions, to put them in a box or box them into the corner to get them to answer it. Because I guarantee you they all sit around and high-five when they made those, those herbal laws, or they helped write them. Oh yeah, I guarantee you not one of them thought about that. Not one of them thought about the single mother from Compton that does—

that works 3 jobs, you know. So yeah, um, sorry, can you still hear the dog barking?

I put him outside, but I don't know. I got 4 dogs.

I'm surprised they haven't done this to you yet. Oh hey, well, he's still going, so I'm like, oh, if you can't hear him, we're good. All right, so I, I lost a bunch of stuff. So, uh, let's see. Clover was that— let's see, had to say the most proud is meeting me. Oh, there you go. Apparently that was what you're supposed to say.

Clover's awesome. Clover's been a big supporter of Lock Talk America from like day one.

Yeah, so I'm, I'm very lucky to know him. There you go. So, um, maybe, but he feels the only one that's supposed to make all this work out Yeah, well, I mean, I think one of the things that, uh, a lot of people say about lucky, I'm like, no, I believe the word you mean is hardworking. So, but the problem is when you're talking to— gosh, I try like you, I'm like, I'm trying not to be divisive, but it's like there are certain people that feel that just because of the color of my skin that I am privileged, and it's, it's it's not wrong necessarily. That's their opinion. They're entitled to their opinion. So it's like, it's good to think about, okay, what about that mom from Compton that can't take any time off? I mean, it's like our governor tried to— they wanted to change our— it currently costs $250 to $300 to get your pistol permit here in Connecticut. They wanted to make it so it was going to be like $500. And it's just like the elitism, yeah, of that is just mind-blowing. And it's like, for me, I was— let's see, unless you're from Winston, Connecticut, you've never heard this term before, but I was a white raggy. And all that means is basically I was white trailer trash when I was a kid. And so I'd hang out on the corner smoking butts with the other 12-year-olds that kind of thing. And it was just like, I've had friends from all walks of life, and that whole thing of they're so myopic. It's like, guns bad, guns bad, guns bad. It's just like, no, mental health sucks, and the lack of mental health we have. Um, back to, yeah, like I said, stories that we get from other people is like, a friend of mine has a 14-year-old girl, and always— I wrote you the email on this, you already know this story., who was stuck in the ER for 2 days because we don't have the mental health capabilities for all these teens and these preteens. Everyone's like, but Brooke, we're talking gun owners. I'm like, yes, but if we look at mental health as a whole, no matter what age people are, like you said, your daughter taking that free screening, um, it's just that whole thing of like, yes, we need help, yes, we can be better, I mean, we've lost so many abilities to just communicate. Like you said, like, walk into a Moms Demand Action thing without a chip on your shoulder and imagine for a moment they might know something that you didn't know. Or at least listening to them, maybe you can understand where they're coming from and have some empathy and have that conversation of, oh, you think it works like this?

Well, actually, if you looked at this way, we can actually make a bigger impact. Yeah, I, you know, one of the things that really pisses me off about gun people sometimes is, is I feel like sometimes we dumb ourselves down. Like, we— if we were to go talk to somebody who's anti-gun, they're going to touch us on the arm and just trick us, and all of a sudden we're going to be tricked, you know. And I've always heard that, like, you got to be careful when you talk to them. It's like, do you ever go in with confidence thinking you're going to turn them Yeah, because that's what I do every time I talk to somebody. I tell them all the time when I get— when people want to talk to me about guns, like, I'll give you an example. Like, a couple of ladies from Moms Demand, I went up to them, Jake and I went up to them. I was like, I just wanted to— just want to say hi and show the world that, like, we don't explode if we're talking to each other. And it was really interesting because one of the ladies was a gun owner, right? Like, you know, so, so she's thinking that we're the same. She doesn't understand that there's a reason why we're not, right? The other lady lost her sister to suicide by firearm, and I, I immediately got to say, I got— I lost my best friend and the president of my company to suicide. I know exactly how you feel, you know, like, you know, it's, it's weird because now you're, you're standing there and you're— you realize like, man, we could go around a circle and we can probably find like 50 things we agree on except we just don't agree on this one. But I really hate it when the firearms people say like they're gonna trick you, or they're very sneaky. Or if you go into those conversations and you basically are able to— you know, Jake will probably come on here and talk about emotional functioning, right? Be able to say like, I'm not going to get emotional when this person's like, I don't care, I still think we need to have herbals, or I don't care, I think there needs to be less guns on the street. Um, you got to remember, that's just their opinion, right? It does nothing It's as strong as my opinion.

It means nothing.

Don't take it personal.

And I think one of the hard things is like, it's like, don't take it personal. It's not you. Because I find when I go to the Capitol and stuff and talk to people is that there are the full Kool-Aid drinkers, right? And yet at the same time, there are people that are really there thinking that they're doing something good. And when you share information with them, like the 2 out of every 3 gun deaths is a suicide, and they're like, wow, I didn't know. Or, I mean, there's so much stuff that's like, well, I'm actually having one of my DC Project members in Connecticut go through and find out for me all of the laws that Adam Lanza broke before he stepped foot on Sandy Hook property. Because I'm like, one more law is not going to make a difference. It's like you said, going with the alcohol. It's like when someone kills somebody due to drunk driving, we don't say, oh, cars must be banned.

Yeah. Yeah. I can only imagine the type of meetings you guys must take up there. They got to be pretty fascinating just from the standpoint. I know we had you on the show talking about it, but, you know, I think it— I think the more that the community looks inside itself and say, well, what can we do? What can we offer? I think that those things will be stronger when you get in front of these politicians, because once again, I think that most people expect us not to be— to do anything, right? Like, we're just going to fight laws, we're not offer the solution.

Oh no, no, the politicians I talked to say yes, their favorite thing is when people say, 'Out of my cold, dead hands.' No, no politician's ever said it to me, ever. Matter of fact, one of the first times I testified back in 2011 one of the senators came up to me. Now I was mortified. It was my first time. I'm like shaking as I'm talking and reading my thing. And he comes out in the hallway because after I left, he got up and he left the meeting to come talk to me and say, you know, I really appreciate the fact that you're not just sitting there glaring at me as if I'm like a bad guy. We are here to help. And none of them can know everything. And all of them know something. But it is our responsibility to educate them. And saying Second Amendment, Second Amendment, Second Amendment is not helping them any. That's making them think we are also myopic and narrow-minded.

So yeah, there's a lot of nuance when it comes to talking about the Second Amendment and gun rights and people and tragedy.

And exactly, and, and yes, we have, um, prejudicial— yeah, judgment prejudicial. There we go. I can almost, I can almost read tonight. It's Saturday and I swear, but yeah, we have, we have lots of issues. But here's the beauty: you are going to reach people that I'm not going to reach. I might reach some people that you're not going to reach. We both have different ways of going about it, as well as G-Webs and Clover and, uh, let's see, Gina and all of that. And I mean, I think that's the other thing that I always wish I could like put in a bottle and like feed it to all the politicians, be like, you don't understand how diverse we are. It's not a bunch of Black— or sorry, white dudes and old men in camo with shotguns. And, you know, that's not what we are.

And it's just like, it's so much that— yeah, I think that stereotype, it, you know, there was a time when I got in the firearms industry in my early 20s, and that was true. Right? You looked around these shows and it was just all like middle-aged white-haired dudes, um, you know. And but I've seen that change over the years. And I, I think the great thing about the Second Amendment is it's a big tent, right? And it's just like, hey, you feel like you, uh, you know, you're underserved by the community, you're in danger because of your lifestyle, come on in, arm up, you know. Now you're one of us, right? Like, we're very accepting of those things. And And I think that's important. And I think we just do a horrible job. I think we've done a horrible job of—

it's getting better.

We're moving in the right direction.

I don't want to sound like a completely negative person. Oh, yeah. No, no, no. Like Clover said, it's a rally cry, not a persuasive argument, right?

Yeah. Yeah, we just done a horrible job of pointing out the good that we do, right? And I think that happened— part of that happens when you were called nasty things, right? It's easy to just be like, 'F off.' Like, I'm not— you know, you just called me a baby killer. Like, I'm not—

how am I supposed to even talk to you? I had that happen to my friend that Friday Sandy Hook happened. She's walking out to her car at work in Hartford, Connecticut, and some raving lunatic starts screaming at her, calling her a baby killer. Now, this is in a parking garage, and, um, and, uh, it was just like one of those things. And the reason the person did is because she had an NRA sticker on her car. Car, and she's screaming at this lady, baby killer, baby killer, baby killer. It was just the craziest thing. And now my friend actually had a friend who lost their child in that.

Wow.

And it's just, it's just horrible. Yeah. Um, and so T-Webs likes your quote from 58 minutes ago, or at minute 58 on YouTube, because those of you on Facebook only got like half an hour. So, all right, sir, we made it to an hour.

I don't know if you really want to go for 6 more hours or 16 more hours. 16? I thought we have 15 hours. Yeah, I cleared my night for you, so you just tell me when you feel the show has run long. I'm enjoying myself and just seeing G-Webs and CloverTac. I mean, just like, these are great people that have helped my organization and, and really promoted it, so I'm happy to be here.

Here. Yeah, no, G-Webs, like I told you at the beginning when we were just in the studio, it's like if it weren't for G-Webs, we wouldn't be here on StreamYard because he's the one hooked me up with that. Uh, DJ is definitely one of those people who give me, um, encouragement on a regular basis. Barbecue, I don't know, I don't know if he's sick again tonight, but, uh, there's another one, Guns and Barbecue, who he does the 2A Women Wednesdays. And so, all right, so I don't know I think we should talk about Jake so we can talk about dirt about Jake before he comes on next Wednesday. I think we got to at least touch on that a little bit before we go.

Um, how did you find Jake? So, yeah, very interesting story. Um, when I first started this, it was great because it's like people like Clover would have me on the show, right? But I couldn't break out of— I don't want to say it's an echo chamber, but I couldn't break out of the gun thing. It's like the people that would listen to me and have me on were gun people, right? Which is great. I think that's where I needed to start. Jake hosts a show, a mental health show called Naga Notes. It's worldwide. And I guess he had been talking— he'll probably tell this story better than I do— but he was, he was talking to somebody and they're like, have you ever heard of Walk Talk America? You should have this guy on. And the cool thing about it was like, that was the first time a mental health, you know, from the mental health side actually had me on one of their shows. I'd done an interview, you know, for a magazine before, but I had never done an actual show where I got to talk. It was really interesting because right before we got on, Jake's like, hey man, um, I gotta tell you something, but we can't talk about it on, on air. I said, well, what? He said, I, I don't know, I have, I have a firearm, I have a CCW and everything. I said, okay. And it's funny because I was just like, all right, I'm not gonna make, you know, hey, you need to talk about that. But we did this show and the show went long because, you know, he was so into what I was talking about. And it's so funny because because where, where I was back then, it's like when I was on Clover's, uh, show, like I had these concepts and ideas, but it's nothing to where it's at now. Like, it, it almost pained me to probably listen to those shows because I'm like, thank God people didn't really ask questions. Um, but, uh, so Jake was really digging the, uh, the concept, and then we talked after the show, like we got on the phone and talked like an extra hour, and, um, we just maintained a relationship. And then one day Jake came to this reality, like, it does me no good to hide this from my people. You know, he's talking about the mental health side. And he said, I'm actually gonna support you and help you. And there's— I think we could find some ways to work together. And we did. And I got to be honest, like, Jake, if it wasn't for Jake, I may have already tapped out of this thing, because there's nobody that works harder than Jake.

Like, it's crazy. All that work he does studying those Antarctica penguins, it's very, very fascinating work.

Yeah, he's got quite the sense of humor too. But I legitimately think he is like the hardest working person I've ever seen. Not only does he run Zephyr Wellness and he has, you know, 2 locations, but he literally trains police for free. You know, he teaches people emotional functioning. He does every single podcast that he's asked to be on, and he's really embraced the gun industry. He loves coming to the shows and seeing people. He's super bummed that he didn't get to come to SHOT Show, but it's been amazing. And honestly, the work that he's put into WTDA, I would say that's a $50,000 a year job for the average person.

He's done it for free.

Yeah.

Well, and see, this is one of the other things about the gun community in general. I didn't know when I started competition that everybody working that competition was volunteering. I mean, I think that as small as the, the gun community is and large at the same time, it's like the amount of volunteer in the heart that we have, it is just crazy huge. And it's— I, again, it's like I wish I could like condense it and just show people. I'm like, no, really, all the pictures I have of me on a gun range with other people most of us are smiling almost the entire time because we're having fun and we're enjoying what we're doing, and we're not mean and cranky, and we're not trying to shoot trespassers or all of this stuff. Are those—

yeah, sure, but we're not them. We're the first people to literally help somebody, right? Like, if you think about it, like, what other industry— like, if I was like, yeah, that's a really cool car, and the person's like, do you know about cars? Do you want to know about cars? Like, gun people literally will, will be like, when you're ready to learn They take you, they take you shooting.

Like, people don't take you driving. Oh, that's a nice Lamborghini, can I try that out? No, right? Like, but everybody wants to share their guns at the gun range. Like, come on. Oh, look at this one, I got this one. Did you see the pretty stuff I put on the bottom?

You know, yeah, it's a great community. And that's one of the reasons why I was so, uh, upset, uh, because I grew up in two super liberal places and people would always ask me like, hey, do you guys all cheer? Like, you know, my friends that are like flipping comments, right? But it's like, no, it's the complete opposite. It's like, you know, even if I can't relate to sitting out in a blind and hunting for 12 hours, which I'll never do, right? Because I grew up in the city and it's just—

you'll find me at the bar waiting for you. Yeah, my dad would take me out hunting. Yeah. All right, we have new guests. Locked and Loaded Latinos. See, back to the whole, the whole variety of things, right? Yeah, yeah, they got a great podcast too. Um, so yeah, all right, so what else? Let's see. Not Hunters. Jake is cool because he works his butt off, but at the same time, he is awesomely smart. Like, he is one of those mental professionals that takes care of himself as well because, um, he's not here tonight because he has specific family time, and this is the time of his specific filming time, so that's why he's not here. And I think so many of us that are working hard often forget that, yeah, you need to have that.

Back to the self-care side of things. You know what? One of the things that really impressed me about Jake too is when I first started working with him, he truly believes that everything with mental health is temporary. And he really believes that. Like, he doesn't believe that because you have bipolar disorder that it needs to be a crutch in your life. And at first I couldn't understand it because I was like, well, if you're bipolar, you're bipolar. But he's like, yeah, but He's like, you can be cured because my, my profession would cease to exist if you couldn't be cured of all these things, right? Or you could maintain and everything like that. And it's just really cool because he's one of the people that's like— we have these private conversations where he's like, I, I, if I've failed, if I've kept you coming back weekly, right, you know, for you, you need whatever help you need, then, then it's just about maintenance. You come back and check the bells and the whistles. And I think that's really cool. And I think it's one of the things that we fear as gun owners and people is like, I don't want to go there and have this person tell me I'm broken and I need to talk to them all the time.

Jake's the opposite. Yeah, well, but the other part of that too is like finding a good mechanic, right? So Jake is the good mechanic in that he's the counselor that knows that you're not a paycheck, you're somebody who needs help, and we're going to help you and get you out the door. Versus the slimy slimeball mechanic that's like, oh well, let's see, we need to do this and then this and then this and then this.— when we're talking about the all-inclusiveness of this, Miss Gina piped up and said she's a definite case of the acceptance of the gun world.

So, right, you know what, Gina is the— you know, I'm sure she's out there telling that story, right? Because we need to talk about how accepting the gun world can be, um, because that's just the— that people do not believe it, right? Let me give one example, right? When I was in Cali and I was having these meetings about the, the bill that they wanted to pass for the, um, you know, the sales tax being removed from all safe sales, uh, they were laughing when I was like, liberal gun club, liberal gun owners. And they're like, what? I was like, they exist. Yeah, yeah. And, and they, they literally are— they have the same belief system that we do when it comes to firearms, just everything, right? Like everything down the line. And it's like, people need to understand that, that there's all walks of life in the gun community. You know, it's for everybody. That, that, that saying, the Second Amendment is for everyone, is definitely true.

And it's like, and the other part for me, the other side of that is, no, it doesn't mean that everyone has to have a gun. Everyone should have the opportunity to have a gun if they so choose, because they're not for everyone. One size never fits all. Although I will warn you, Mike, apparently the gauntlet's been thrown down since you said you're never say never. You're, you're now going to be going on a hunting trip even though you say you're never gonna go hunting.

So I went on a duck hunt once. I think it was the worst thing I did. I'm just telling you, I'm not built for that life. I'm not built for sitting out in the cold and waiting for an animal to come by. No, huh? No, I know my limitations, Clover.

Like I told you, I'll meet you at the bar for a drink after the fact. Yeah, no, my dad, we would fly down to, uh, Maryland every Thanksgiving, and it would be like getting up at 4 o'clock in the morning and walking out to some duck blind somewhere. And the, the one picture I have from that is I get through my dad's ticket, I was like lying here on the side of the duck blind sleeping. So that's the extent. And like, and I don't kill anything. Let me, let me be perfectly clear, I will never go hunting because I am the girl who spends 5 minutes trying to get the stupid bug to fly out my window versus squishing it. Very right. I don't kill stuff. I just don't. Well, no, not true. I kill, um, ticks. Ticks get killed in my house.

And mosquitoes sometimes. Yeah, you're a mosquito hunter like me. I give every animal the— this is what, you know, growing up the way I did, I give every animal like the personality of my dog. Like, they could be like my dogs, right? And so, and it's funny because I've never had a problem with hunting and hunters. Yeah, right.

Uh, I just— it's just not for me, right? No, I had a boyfriend in Wyoming. He would go out, hunt antelope, he'd bring it back, and I would help take it apart. But I can't kill it. I'm just like, no, I can't do that part. Oh look, I've got someone on my team, Carrie Ann.

She's saving the spiders. Yeah, there you go. Yes, hey, hey, like, that's, that's our give back to the animal kingdom, right? Like, we're the ones that let you live when you cross our path.

It's like, you know, the ants in my kitchen, because we have them year-round apparently. It's like, those are like— when you said the dog thing, I'm like, yeah, the ants are kind of like my little tiny dogs. Yeah. All right, so Latina Locked and Loaded: mental health treatment on record is a huge problem for certain professionals as well. Oh yes, absolutely. Um, I know people can't see treatment because they'll be on record, and I am so bummed. I have, um there was a woman in Florida who was doing mental health screenings and stuff for specifically firemen, EMTs, and police officers. Like, I don't know, I don't know if that's who she's talking about or Latina is talking about, but, um, yeah, it's crazy. It's like, it's not just gun owners that have a problem. And this is why, to me, it's like when I talk about— imagine for a moment that Moms Demand Action, every town the NRA, NSSF, all of a sudden came out and said, hey, we have a mental health problem and we're going to put our money and our efforts to that. How many lives would be saved? I mean, it's— that's my, like, that's my grand, oh my goodness, if we can do this, if we can get this done and realize mental health is the problem, not the tool. If I stab myself in the eyeball with a pen, the pen is still not the problem.

It's me stabbing myself in the eyeball. Well, the gun has been always the villain too, right? So think about like an ERPO law, right?

Like if somebody calls for— because not everybody here knows an ERPO law, so give a quick 30-second up.

Extreme Risk Protection Order, which— or a red flag law, right? Where depending on state to state they differ. So it's very important not to talk about them like they're one law, you know, like one boogeyman. Like they have different— some states are that have them have better provisions of the law for getting your firearms back and everything like that, but they're just bad, period. And the reason why I don't support them at all, and I go on record all the time saying that, is because I know enough people that don't want to be red flagged that said they'll never get help, right? Like, when I hear someone say, I will not get help because I don't want to be red flagged, I think that's a problem. But, you know, think about that. Let's pretend I just got red flagged and they're going to come in, and the police are now going to walk into a situation, uh, that's very escalated. They don't want to— most cops don't want to enforce. I, I have friends on Metro, they're like, we won't even enforce red flag law, like, we won't do it. I'm not showing up to take somebody's gun away who's already in a crisis and angry, right? A uniformed person is going to take their property is going to make it worse, right? Um, but, but having said that Uh, you come in, you take my firearms, right? Like, let's just say I am in crisis, you take my firearms. You don't take my rope, you don't take the water out of my pool, you don't take my car, you don't take anything, you don't take the knives out of the house. So like, the gun has always played the villain in these type of scenarios.

Silly, right? Yeah, yeah. And it's like, here in Connecticut, they were going after, uh, various red flag laws, and the truth of the matter again is that we already have risk protection acts available. Like, again, they keep going after stuff that's already there. They just haven't bothered to take the time to realize. I'm like, oh, wait a second, if I'm in crisis and my, you know, someone sees that I'm in crisis, it doesn't matter who they are, they can totally bring me and get me help. And I mean, and so this is one of the other things that I want to talk about real quick is how do you and I and people watching or listening become resources. And it can be something as simple as QPR, right? Question, persuade, refer. And it's just ask a question, save a life. And it's QPR for suicide, um, for suicide prevention, because people don't know how to talk about it. So if you go to this little tiny short, 3 hours out of your life, you at least get exposed to it. You can learn about, um, question, persuade, and refer. It doesn't make you into a counselor. It just makes you into someone who can talk about, oh wait, are you having a bad day? Like, I mean, are you really thinking about killing yourself? Because people like, you can say that to someone? Isn't that going to make them think of killing themselves? Because that's the most common thing that I hear when people talk about that. It's like, no, you can actually— because again, from my point of view, when I was in group counseling after I'd been locked up in the hospital for 3 days, It was refreshing knowing that I wasn't alone or that, you know, the idea that someone would worry about me thinking that I should kill myself because I thought it was my normal at the time, right? And so if someone's in that bad state and someone says, hey, are you thinking about this? And I'm like, oh yeah, like, yeah, that's not good because I didn't know that at the time.

So yeah, you know, I want to go back to— I'd spoken earlier about the gentleman, his name's Iman, who who I had dinner with that put the Glock up here and shot up, and he actually lived. Um, and I said that I think he could be the Kevin Hines of the firearms industry, and I really do, because the way he tells that story, it'll give you chills. Um, but Kevin Hines, for those that don't know that story, uh, it's the— it's a gentleman who jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge, and, and he has— it's such a crazy story, um, because— you know, he broke his back and his legs, and a SEAL helped him stay afloat. He thought it was a shark. I mean, if you haven't heard Kevin Hines tell that story, you got to Google it when we're done here. But one of the things that always stood out to me about the Kevin Hines story is he took a bus to go to the Golden Gate Bridge, and he had said, hey, if somebody asked me how I'm doing or if I'm okay, I'm not going to do this. And he just waited and it didn't happen. Like, as a matter of fact, he was in a fog. He said he was on autopilot and like literally people were like, are you getting off? And you know what I mean? And so I always say like, never underestimate the power of just saying to somebody, are you okay? Right? Like, you can literally change the course of somebody's day by almost showing them a little interest and being like, you good?

I think people underestimate that all the time. Yeah, I mean, and it's like one of the things I talked about last week was we're being hidden all the time by having masks on these days, right? And so it's like we're losing that connection that we're desperately aware of.

Is that the right one, Kevin Hines' story? Yeah, yeah, that's, that's probably gonna be it. Yeah. All right, well, you can— and YouTube has plenty of—

he's a motivational speaker now, but it just— yeah, it says survivor, storyteller, and filmmaker, and there's a picture of a a seal on his page, so I'm guessing that that might be part of it.

Yeah, that's the coolest part of that story is he said that he had like gone so far down and he was like, his will to live— because as soon as he let go, right, he knew he needed to— he was like, I, I've made a mistake. Same thing, same thing that Iman told me about when he pulled the trigger. Yeah, he said like when he came to, which I thought was just a wild story because he's like, I sat up and I was— because I asked I said, dude, did you feel like you were like, am I in heaven? Or what? You're like, you know, he's like, I knew my eye was gone, um, but he's just like, I, but I, I wanted to live. Like, he's like, I, I had the will to live. And Kevin did the same thing. Like, he fell, goes into the water, and then on his way up, because he sees the light, he says, I gotta get there. And he took— it took everything for him because his legs were broken and he broke part of his back. And he's just going up, up, up, and he hits the air, and then he's floating there. And he's like, I can't move, I, I'm gonna drown. And then he gets bumped. And he thinks, I'm gonna just get eaten by— I'm gonna— I made it, I lived, and I'm gonna get eaten by a shark. You know, because he's in the San Francisco Bay. And it turned out it was a seal that actually helped him and was holding him up.

And yeah, you know, it's just a wild story. So very cool. Yeah, I like to use it. The big point is just saying hello. It's crazy. It's like, especially being here in New England, New Englanders have a persona of being mostly like New Yorkers and not making eye contact, not talking to people. It's like that whole, um, if you're in an elevator, it's uncomfortable to talk to people. I'm that person who talks to everybody in the elevator, I'm not gonna lie. Um, but yeah, it's, it's like connection. We need connection so badly. And it's like, all I see, unfortunately, in our country is that it gets divided, divided, divided. It's like when my baby sister was killed in a car accident, my mom and I said, okay, what's good about this? Because you can find the good in anything. And people like, you did what? And I'm like, yeah, because you know it sucks. And it's like, if there was anything about like what's good about this for 9/11, It's like for a couple months there, we were a united America. And we were together. And we were stronger. And we were better. And we realized most of the crap that we disagree on is this much.

And then, you know, since then, though, unfortunately, it's just gotten further and further, right? Yeah, you can have some great conversations with Jake, because we talk a lot about this stuff and how, you know, it's very important to sometimes disconnect from social media, because that can be be poisonous, um, what it does to your mental state. But yeah, that 9/11 thing, I remember, you know, for me being from Jersey and stuff like that, it was, uh, I remember one of the images that burned in my head, um, that day, like, because I was in a— I was in Ohio at a trade show and I— we drove home. I remember, uh, passing a, um, like a shopping mall, you know, like a— but there was a bunch of Hells Angels in the parking lot and they were all in a giant circle in praying. Yeah. And, uh, I thought it was like the imagery, you know, because I was just like, here's the, you know, these people that are a biker gang, but they're sitting there holding hands and they're praying for these people in New York City.

It was pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. No, it is. It— I mean, it's one of those things. There is one of my beliefs is that the darker the time, the brighter the light that shines. Guidance to guide you out of that darkness. And people are just like, you know, people like, oh, you know, if you could go back and erase anything from your life, what would it be? And I'm like, nothing. It's like everything that happened to me has created who I am.

I can't be who I am without that. Let me ask you a question. So, um, obviously you struggle with suicidal ideation.

Did your sister passing have a lot to do with that? Oh God, no, no. I was raped and incest as a child and gang raped and had all sorts of other problems with parents having— being— all right, let me— before I say the rest of it, that sentence: my parents are amazing, but my father was a drug addict and my mom was an alcoholic. But I would not be the person I am without them because they taught me that anything is possible. Obviously, my parents didn't know what was going on at home. We lived in a a large house with lots of people. And then I also, you know, that stranger danger thing is sort of true and sort of not. And it just seems like for me, once I became a target, I kept becoming a target for sexual assault. And as an 8-year-old, a 9-year-old, a 10-year-old, 11-year-old, 12-year-old, and so on and so forth, you don't really know what to do with that, especially if it's adults, because the whole idea is, okay, I'm a kid I'm supposed to do whatever adults say. And well, I'm in my own bed at home, and therefore I should be sleeping, so I can't do anything. And so a lot of that is where the, the whole thing of, you know, divorced parents— if my parents loved me enough, then, you know, I would be, I would be worthy of them being together. Like, that was like one of my childhood thoughts. And then the sexual assault stuff started, and then it was just it really messes with the kid's head. So yeah, no, my, uh, all of that— I'd already been through counseling and stuff by the time my sister died. Okay. And so luckily— and lots of Tony Robbins. By the time I was like 22, I had lots of Tony Robbins too. So yeah, it was— oh, I was bullied, that too. Yeah. So it was, it was a lot of different things in my life that made it to the point where I must have been useless I wasn't worthwhile. And yeah, I was just in lots of pain. I, I turned into an alcoholic at like 14, 15 and drank a lot.

So yeah, which, you know, when the comedowns on that are just as bad, right?

Like coming off of alcohol binges and everything like that. Well, yes and no. It was one of those things. I'm the worst alcoholic in the world because no, no hangovers, no anything. It was just like It was like I could— I mean, the one time I almost killed myself with, uh, alcohol poisoning, which I wasn't trying to kill myself, but I realized that next day that I was almost dead, um, was pure grains, like drinking just 100%. Yeah, yeah, it was not a good day. But so there was a lot of broken home, even though my parents were great, they really were, considering. But it's like one day, and I gave my mom— mom and I have talked about this, she's One day she came home one night from the bar, as usual, smelling of alcohol, comes into my bedroom, gives me a kiss goodnight, and says, "I love you." And I think I was 12 at the time, and I finally said to her, I'm like, "Mom, how come you only tell me that you love me when you're drunk?" And she's like, "Well, Brooke, think of it this way: at least I'm not a mean drunk and I don't come home and beat you instead." And she's not wrong. Right. And so it's like, that's where I'm just like, I am not— I am the person who I am because of the experience I've had.

Yeah. You wonder what it is about the block that your mother had, and the alcohol obviously brought the inhibition down, you know what I mean? And allowed her to be able to express those feelings and stuff like that. It's kind of interesting when you— I have friends like that too. They get really lovey-dovey when they're, they're drinking, you know, but they, they can't, you know, they can't do it when they're sober.

And the thing is, is the joy of having alcoholics and drug addicts as parents is like, you see that they're just trying to shove down pain and suffering that they've experienced. And unfortunately, the chemicals and the alcohol are the ways that they're dealing with them. And like I said, I'd be an amazing drug addict. I could see myself turning into that in a heartbeat because I see how easy it is. Because it's like, people don't become addicts because it it's not fun. Because when you start, it's fun because it does that dopamine, it does all those things. And so when I was a kid, I just thought my dad was moody. I didn't know he was drunk. My mom, I knew she was drunk, but it was high functioning, only on the weekend, only at parties kind of stuff. But as a kid, it was just like, I just felt like I'm not enough because they're divorced. If they loved me enough, they would be together. And that's why I hate to see broken families, but I understand not everyone's meant to be together. Um, so yeah, I just, I just had a hard time with dealing with the sexual assault. Definitely became hard. Um, I went away to boarding school at 12 years old, 13 years old, because I begged to go away to boarding school because I was getting bullied so horribly at school where I was living at home. But I also begged because I was getting sexually assaulted at Right. And so, but I didn't tell them that part. But my mom, again, the brilliant person that she is— I came home in tears one day from being brutally bullied, and she's like, Brooke, they see a light in you that they are jealous of, and they want to tamp it down versus realize that they are not enough. And it's one of those messages that's always stuck in my head. And, you know, Tony Robbins says it's like there's There's two ways to have the biggest building in the, in the, uh, in the town. You can either build yours up or tear everyone else's down. And so the bullies would try to tear mine down, but then I went away to boarding school and, well, the upperclassmen thought, hey, look, fresh meat.

So yeah, it's a lot of stuff. Yeah, I was gonna say, like, you, you run a risk of, of when you And obviously, I don't know what— but it sounds like it was awful, right?

But like, even going to boarding school, there's still bullies. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Boarding school versus public school, there is no difference. I tell my friends, like, if you've never been to boarding school, the only difference is they've got more money for drugs.

That's it, right? The same stinking thing. Oh, you'd be amazed. My daughter goes to— one of my daughters goes to public school over here. Bye, DJ. Sorry. Yeah, one of my daughters goes to Bishop Gorman, which is like the school in Las Vegas, and then she tells me stories all the time. And where are these kids getting this money? Like, 8-balls are expensive. Like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's amazing what these, these rich kids—

oh yeah. All right, DJ's saying goodbye and thanks, Mike, you rock. Yeah, thanks, DJ, appreciate it. So yeah, like, it's so—

all right, so Mike, it's official, this is the longest Suicide Princess Saturday ever, ever, ever.

Okay, good. I just wanted that title. You hit the bar, man. I'm like like, uh, you want— and yes, and we'll have all sorts of talk to Mike with— or sorry, uh, Jake with on Wednesday. Um, but anyway, so yeah, there's that. And it's funny because then I start talking about, um, bullying and the fact that I'm not mad at my bullies because of what my mom taught me, which is they're mostly broken and upset and sad too. So to me, whenever we talk mental health It's that whole thing. It's like the bullies are broken too. It's because they don't have any other way to get attention or get their fulfillment, and so they do it by beating up other kids.

Yeah. And you know what's funny though, and, and this is what I always tell my kids, uh, my girls, like, I was like, whatever, who's ever picking on you or whatever you feel like, none of this matters.

Because once you get it, you know, but you don't see it while you're in it, right? When you're 18, when you're 12, oh, it's the worst thing ever.

Right, but like, it's funny because like, I would love to run into some of the people, you know, back then just to see where they're at, right? And just, you know, because it's like you realize like once you get into the real world and you get a job and you don't see people running into the, you know, them on a daily basis, and it's— but at that moment you can't get out of it. It's your world. Oh yeah, that's all you see. You have the blinders on.

You're going to be that elementary school kid or junior high kid that's getting bullied. Yeah, yeah. And I've gotten the phone calls, you know, the people that are going through AA saying, I remember, you know, like, is this Brooke Reynolds? Because that was my maiden name when I was getting bullied. Um, I'm gonna be like, yeah, it's like, this is so-and-so, and I just want to say I'm sorry for being such a jerk. So yeah, I've had people call me to make their amends. Wow.

And so yeah, then you were cool with it?

You weren't like, hey, yeah, I'm still looking for you? No, actually, wait, that leads me perfectly into how we can bring this to an end. Okay. I last week I did a Tony Robbins event, it was 5 days of Tony Robbins, and I just love Tony Robbins. And it's start your, you know, 2022 off right. And so I learned a new breathing technique, which is simply, you have to find your own words. But for me, When I breathe in, I think the word calm, and when I breathe out, I think the word peace. And when I breathe in, I think the word calm. And the reason when I breathe in I'm thinking the word calm is because I'm bringing oxygen into my body, which allows my brain to think and my muscles to be stronger. So I have bring— bring in oxygen, which is calming, and then the release of the air coming back out Hand-Thinking Peace is the letting go, which for me is all about that forgiveness, because the first person who sexually assaulted me was probably the main reason I was suicidal and angry and mad and pissed off. And for many years, I hated him. I hated him. I just couldn't stand it. I couldn't believe he was walking this earth. It was so wrong, and how dare he take my childhood away from me. I was angry. And then I forgave him. And that is the peace of letting go, because hate and anger is nothing more than a poison that you're feeding yourself. So I learned that peace is letting go and that forgiveness piece.

Yeah, that's awesome.

And I think it's an awesome breathing technique. So, and like I said, you got to find your own words for it, but it's just like, it's— forgiveness is the most powerful thing that there is out there. People like, how can you forgive? I'm like, because otherwise I have that poison running through me. And on another note, I actually took that person to counseling with me. Wow. So, and they agreed to go with me, so we did that piece as well. So yeah, it's, uh, so forgiveness is the most important thing. So yeah, thank you, Latina. Sorry, wait, ready? I realize again people can't see it that are on Facebook. So anyhow, so yes, that's the breathing technique. Try it, find the words that work for you. What, what, what final words do you have, Mike? For real, what's your favorite ending? Because like, I know you guys have a question that you ask people, but I'm not going to ask you the same question. Oh, actually, maybe I should. I should wait. I should throw it back at you. What do you do to take care of yourself on a regular basis, Michael?

You know, I gotta be honest with you, uh, Walk the Talk America keeps me sane. Like, I know this, it's like the most cliché thing to say, and it's like, okay, it's a shameless plug for his organization, but literally, like, I've become addicted to this and seeing where it's going, and it really keeps me sane. And to see, like, my daughter is proud of me, and just everybody in my family is very proud of me, and I wouldn't be able to do this without them because they sacrifice they sacrifice my attention. I'm not good like Jake. Like, Jake has the— he can block those things off, you know. I'll be jumping on a call at 1 o'clock in the morning. I got— I spent most of last night talking to another person who's helping me with WTTA, and it was funny because we were up to like 11:30, you know. And so like, for me, this is my release. Like, when I do this, I don't think of it as work, um, but you know, besides the cliché thing saying Walk Talk America, I'd say, uh, just joking and laughing with my family. Like, this family here is— we're very funny people, uh, at least in our world. Like, my daughters— cushions in your house? I don't know. Like, no, but my daughters have great sense of humor. It's very dry. Um, you know, we try to spend as much time as we can. We're all in passing, but like, you know, we'll sit there in the kitchen and take moments to literally like, you know, ask how the day was. So I'd say it's, it's just, you know, burying myself in my family and taking that time and doing those things. Sometimes I force them to go to the movies with me or go to a restaurant, you know, even though I know they don't want to. But I'm like, nope, I'm making you do it because we're gonna do it.

But that, that's how I, I stay sane. Yeah, very cool. All right, so I got a question here. Did I forgive but not really forgive at first or second or third? Found it takes time to reach forgiveness, true forgiveness of the person, and have it stay. So the answer that I have for that is it's just like meditation. It's a practice. It's like I can now, at 50 years old, when these things happen to me at 9, 10 years old, I honestly tell you that I no longer have anger or hate for this person. And I know that because it serves me. It has nothing to do— they will always have to live with what they did. But if I— when I was like realizing that I had to let this go, when I realized that the poison was eating me alive inside and it was doing nothing to him, I mean, that was kind of the switch, right, for my brain, was that I could hate him all I wanted, but it didn't impact him at all. So why was I letting that poison flow through my heart and my brain and destroy my immune system? By the way, for those of you not aware of that. Hate is the one thing that actually causes heart damage, like physical heart damage.

I didn't know that when I was working on that forgiveness piece, but I don't want to— you know, I scheduled 16 hours, but like, yeah, did that person, when you guys went to counseling and stuff, and are you confronted, like, did they own it?

Oh yeah, yeah, they promised me that I was the only one that that they ever did that to. Um, they were sorry. They couldn't take it back. They wished that they could. Um, we went to a couple of counseling sessions because that's what I needed. So he was younger, I was younger, obviously. Um, and so the closest he could come to reparations was to do what I asked him to do for me. And so he, he did what I asked him to do.. And for the most part, it is what it is. It's like we can't go back and redo it. If I didn't take the journey that was given to me, I wouldn't be here. DJ or D-Webbs or somebody was talking about empathy, and it's like if it weren't for the pain and suffering that I went through, I don't believe I'd have the empathy that I have. So as much as it was a rough, a rough journey, it is what gave me strength or what gives me strength and makes me realize that we're all— well, sorry, from my point of view, we're all broken. And there's— we all have insecurities. We all have things that need to be better. And it's all for different reasons. Mine are just ones that people think are dramatic. And yet there was, um, an interview a couple months ago that I saw, and it was Ed Mylett and this lady who— her first memory was being 4 years old and being told to go into a hotel room and not to forget the envelope she walked out with because her parents were using her for sex trafficking. Yeah.

And I—

and my counselors are also like, never compare your pain to anyone else's.

So there's that.

So it's hard not to do that though sometimes, right?

But it's still worse, right? They're still better, but it's— yeah, so yeah, the reason why I asked the question about like, did he own it, is because I, I struggle with people that do evil, and I consider like molesting a child evil. Yeah, it's like, can they come back from that? That, you know?

Yeah, it's hard to, to kind of wrap your head around it because you're like— and don't get me wrong, I, I wish that child, uh, sexual assault was not something. I wish that the Underground Railroad didn't have to exist. Uh, I wish that I didn't have the knowledge that, oh, by the way, Super Bowl Saturday is— or Super Bowl Sunday is the biggest moneymaker for all of those trafficked children. Um, these are things that I wish that I didn't know because I wish they didn't happen. Happen. Uh, but the good news is there's people out there raising awareness for that sort of thing as well. Yeah. So, and the most powerful lesson a shaman taught me was to try to accept the fact that stuff just is. If you can let go of it being good or bad and it just is, then you can deal with it easier. And I'm like, when you talk about like children being abused, I'm just like, yeah, no, I really can't just go to is. No, it's just— I'm sorry, that's on my bad scale. I just can't. But as someone who had that happen to me at the same time, I'm just like, yeah, it's just something that happened. Do you know what I mean?

It's really, it's, it's really odd in my head. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, that's understandable. Well, you know, you talk about it and I think that's great.

It's like fighting in the open, you know, so people understand the story, but it's tough. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's why I think the stranger danger stuff is such garbage, because it's like when I tell my story, like, you know, people will come out and say, oh, me too. As much as I hate the hashtag in the worst way, they ruined that. But anyway, um, and it's always the cousin, the uncle, the coach, the next-door neighbor. Um, yeah, Harding, Super Bowl Sunday is the number one moneymaker for the sex traffickers in America. It's the worst thing ever. Oh, sorry, here for people who don't know what I'm referring to. Um, but yeah, it's again group counseling. Let people know, yes, you need to get help. You need to, you know, go to Walk the Talk America and take the assessment whether you think you need it or not. Just find out stuff like that. You know, there's resources out there. We can always be the light. I don't know if she's still— I forget who said it. I missed somebody, but they were talking about, you know, kind of be the light sort of thing. So that's my, that's my plan, and let other people know that yes, even bad things can turn out well.

So yeah, here you are now, right?

Here we are. Caught steam and everything is great, you know. So yeah, and then my, my favorite little Carrie Anne. So Carrie Anne is our DC Project Massachusetts, and we are all broken in the world and we have different things we need to fix. Just how learning how is the key to healing, and that just is like the whole idea of finding the counselor that works for you.

So, and Jake, I'm guessing his book is full right about now. Yeah, you, this You guys are gonna like having Jake on.

You know what the best part about being friends with Jake is?

Well, you get free counseling. I get the counseling, right? And but, but I also get the, like, if I call and I'm like, what is that person? What's like, what's your assessment of what this person is doing, right? Or even if it's like we're talking about an athlete who's doing something bizarre, right? Like, right in the middle of the game, or, you know, something like that. And it's kind of interesting to hear his perspective because he's not someone that— he doesn't— he's not vicious, he doesn't attack, but he kind of says like, this is what it looks like what's happening, you know, to this person. So it's always fascinating.

It's like having a cancer on speed dial. And this is why it's like we can go in circles all night long because this is where like the mom's demand action come from, right? They're coming from a place of fear and they're afraid and they're trying to get something done so they can feel better. And the challenge with the gun world, we've talked about this, like G-Webs and a bunch of us talked about this, is that we tend to come from, I don't know, I don't know brain chemistry, but right brain, left brain, we come from that. Well, 2 out of every 3, that's the actual stat, 2 out of every 3. Whereas we've got, we're talking to fuzzy people that want to talk about emotions. They don't want to talk about the stats. So just because we keep talking about Jake, for those of you who are still here with us, I'm gonna see Jake on Wednesday at noon on the 9th of February. I'm looking at my calendar so I get this right. So noon on February 9th, Jake, who is Michael's partner, we're going to talk about penguins in Antarctica because I told him that, you know, we have to talk about his social studies down there. And I told him we'd talk about him tonight, so we've done that a couple times. So we've done all of that. And I don't know, I think that's it. Can we really go? See, this is one of those things. You said you're Italian, right?

I'm not Italian, but I have to tell you, it takes at least 30 minutes to say goodbye. Okay, right. We just start to edge backwards. If we get farther away from the camera.

All right.

We started going like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Have we said goodbye enough yet? No, thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it. And I, I, you know, everybody that's in the chat, uh, you know, I, I appreciate you too. A lot, a lot of you showed up that I know, which is just awesome. So, um, you know, makes this show very comfortable for me. Um, Walk the Talk US, they— I'm gonna plug the social media outlets that you're— if you're not following their, uh, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, @WalkTheTalkUS. Go to the website, um, you Jake and I and Rob, everybody, right, Colleen, we're all there to answer questions, and you know, if you have them, so if you reach out, um, you know, let us know.

But thank you so much for having me on. It's great to see you. Sure, same here. Sorry I missed SHOT. I was still on crutches. I figured that wasn't an awesome idea, so yeah, right, that would be a little rough on crutches for my first time.

So yeah, yeah, you have some pretty jacked arms though because they spread that SHOT Show out, out like They've spread it out even farther than it was before.

So it's— all right, sir. Well, thank you for giving me your 16 hours worth of work in almost 2 hours. Yeah, you, you, I think, are going to be the marathon one. We'll see. I'm just starting this, this guest thing, but usually I'm like, yeah. Um, but thank you for your time, and thank you for all the work that you are doing. Um, and I'm looking forward to getting my next box of ammo that's got a little card in it that says, you know, let's have that hard conversation. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I can only show this because I don't have one of yours, but you know, it's good that there's multiple, right?

Yeah, so just email me an address, okay?

Okay, I will get it out to you. Okay, all right, again, all right, thank you everybody. Bye. Once I find the place to turn it off— all right, I'm really going now. Goodbye. He's