Suicide Prevention Sat with maybe John Petrolino

That little swirly thing always takes longer than I expect, so I never know when we actually go live, but we're live now. So, um, hello everybody, welcome to Suicide Prevention Saturday. It is roughly 9 PM Eastern, and my name is Brooke Cheney, and I am the owner instructor here at A Great Start Shooting School. Today my guest for Suicide Prevention Saturday is John Petrolino. Now let's see, yeah, I can go that way. All right, it's always backwards from what I think it's going to be. I do Suicide Prevention Saturday every Saturday night, 9 PM is our current time. I've tried different times, but this one seems to work the best. And I do it because as gun owners, one of the things that's super important to understand when people talk to you about gun violence, 2 out of every 3 deaths they're talking about are suicide by gun. So super excited to have John here. Hi, John, you can say hi.

Hi, it's a pleasure to be with you, Brooke. Thank you for having me. I appreciate the invite big time. Thank you.

Well, it's, it's one of these things, like, I actually went back on Facebook not that long ago and tried to figure out when I actually started this. And I think I could— I have it written down, but I don't remember off the top of my head. But I think it was like October of 2018. And I'm just like, we should talk about this. I don't know if I'm going to do this again. But here we are a couple years later, and I'm still doing it. So it's more exciting because I've got YouTube and Facebook audiences currently. And oh no, there's already 6 comments. So I do my best to stay away from the comments so I don't lose everything, but I do get distracted easily. I have John's book. And for those of you who've never heard of John, haven't read Ammoland or various other places where he writes, I think it's just really super important to start with this because in his book Decoding Firearms, I have my little bookmark on page 6, a note on suicide prevention, and I'm going to read it to you because it's Saturday night, so you should feel like your kid getting read to. Two-thirds of all deaths attributed to firearms in the United States come in the form of suicides. Approximately 85% of suicide attempts with a firearm result in death. If you or a loved one has experienced suicidal thoughts or tendencies, there is help available. The Suicide Prevention Resource Center is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week by calling the Suicide Prevention Resource Center. Oh, look, there's also the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention right here for more information and resources on preventing suicide or getting help for yourself or a loved one. You can visit them on the web at www.spirc.org. So, John, I'm just gonna start with that. What made you put that in the beginning of your book?

I, I felt, and, and much like you, I feel like this is a very, very important thing. And, um, the topic of suicide prevention is something that I think that we do as gun owners need to embrace. And again, that statistic, that two-third number, really sticks in my craw because we're conflating different things. There's criminal activity, and then there's death by suicide, and then there's death by suicide by firearm, of course. And these are all very different things. And we can't sit here and pigeonhole the entire, however many thousands of deaths annually to firearms, saying, well, those are violent acts when you have really— and this is the way, the way we also need to look at it is 66% of Americans are more apt to use a firearm on themselves than another human being. And I think if we start phrasing things that way, It's going to bring things into a different perspective. That two-thirds number, you say that's how many people are more inclined to use a gun on themselves and not one in violent acts. And that's kind of why, you know, writing the book and putting it together, you know, this is a basic 101-level book. It's supposed to be easy to read. It's 266 pages. So there's lots of pictures. There's over 115 original illustrations and the suicide prevention information. That wasn't something that I had to put a lot of thought into. It was a no-brainer for me. And I even put the subcategories. So when you're looking at the actual table of contents, I don't know if you can see that well in the table of contents. I have the number and the website information right there. So that you're— if you're just thumbing through the table of contents, you see that there's a section, a note on suicide prevention, and there's the information right there. You never know who's gonna, you know, be looking into firearms. And I think this is something that we do need to discuss. Also, there was a story, and there's a firearm trainer I know, and This is a story I've heard secondhand, by the way, and— but the story goes like this. They had a client, they did a basic firearms class. There was a whole, maybe a room full of people, and there was a student that went through the entire basic class. Whatever they did was the 8 hours. I don't know if it was an NRA class. I don't know all of the particulars, but this individual sat through a full basic pistol class to learn how to use a firearm and then turn that firearm on themselves when they got to the range time and then ended up dying by suicide by firearm. So there are people out there that'll, you know, say like, I need education to be able to do this. And I, I want them— if, if my book ends up being that mechanism for somebody to learn about guns, I want them to see that message in there and say, hey, there is help available, you know, and all is not lost. So there's, there's no reason to come up with a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Right. And I think that kind of encompasses it.

Absolutely. And I mean, and it's between all of our work and coming full circle. I have a bunch of different articles and things we can talk about, but it's like you and I have both been on Walk the Talk America. It was funny because I went and looked at their website and I'm episode 34 and you were episode 30. So you made it there before I did. But I'm happy to be on the same page with you. And just a real quick shout out. Mr. Charlie Cook says there's not enough pictures.

There's not enough.

And for Mr. Charlie Cook, I just want him to know that yes, we have an addition to the pictures that he's going to add to his next revision. So that will take care of any— enough pictures, I think.

Just the real quick backstory is I had somebody proof my book and they said, well, you've covered a lot, but you didn't cover break-action revolvers. I'm like, All right. I didn't cover break-action revolvers. You may have a point, but this is about, like, conventional firearms for the beginners.

It says something about common pistol types.

Yes.

Sometimes I have a hard time teaching the single-action stuff, but I'm like, all right, they're out there for sure. And you don't have to only be a cowboy action shooter when you've got this going.

Correct. I mean, I did not put any break-action revolver stuff in the book.

And, uh, John from Guns and Barbecue— won't lie, a little starstruck when he popped up in my Insta message on Facebook when we were talking about the article you wrote, uh, recently for, um— oh my gosh, I have my link somewhere— but, um, about CCDL and DC Project. So, uh, John was in that as well. I always have to say hi to Tara. She's out driving somewhere usually, or cooking, one of the two. Uh, MK Joe, Hello, how are you? And Gun Websites, uh, he always reminds me to tell people, well, if Gun Websites was a second thumbs up, what number, what thumbs up are you? So yes, remember to do the thumbs up thing if you're on YouTube. Um, if you're on Facebook, just like stuff. So, um, some of my favorite fans and G23 who's looking to give me away, give me stuff. So, you know, we got not paid, did not, not pay attention to that. Yeah, that's the word I'm looking for. So anyway, there's so much you and I can talk about. Um, the honesty in statistics, I know that's one of your favorite subjects. Like, you— I know you just kind of encapsulated that is like, if two-thirds roughly, right? Because it's like there's lies, damn lies, and statistics, I believe. You know, John Wayne said that, right? Not Mark Twain, you know. But it's one of those things where it's like, I find it so disingenuous when they put suicides into the gun violence bucket.

Well, and that's something I did want to talk about too, because it's funny, somebody just sent me a study to look at. And we're working on something. It's a collaboration. And it was a study that I was like, hey, you know, I don't want to pay the money. 'Cause some of these studies you have to pay money to get access to, which is like fine. But if you write the authors, sometimes they'll be benevolent enough to send them to you, say, hey, I'm doing something, I'm from the media, I'm writing for AmmoLand, I'm writing for Bearing Arms or whatever. And they'll send you the study. Well, I'm looking at this study and this was supposed to be a study that I'm looking at that says it's got very good information. To corroborate a lot of the points that we would make about mental health, suicide, death by suicide by firearms, all that kind of stuff. And the first, very first paragraph, the very first sentence starts talking about the gun violence epidemic that we have in the United States. This is— I, and I had to stop reading after a page and a half. And I went back to my contact. I said, I have to shelve this. I said, I'm supposed to take this study seriously. And we're talking about mental health. We're talking about trying to prevent suicides in this study. And the first thing they're talking about is gun violence. This is— I can't handle that, like, in a sense of I can't take it seriously. And that is the biggest problem that I have with all of these researchers, even the ones that are trying to do the right thing. These researchers need to understand there's a reason why a lot of gun owners shy away from them. There's a reason why there's distrust. And the answers to those questions— there's so many things like the CDC being weaponized against gun owners to make this so-called gun violence epidemic. And like, this is not— this is a complex issue, right?

Yeah. So, I mean, it's crazy because we just had this here in Connecticut, as you already know.

It's right.

They want, they want to pass the bill that said gun violence is a, a health crisis in Connecticut. And my part of my testimony was 75% of violence occurs without a firearm. So if we're talking about a crisis, why are not we looking at the larger thing? Again, back to why we're here, suicide prevention, right? Over 60% of the problem. We need to be talking more about this.

And the question that I always pose to, to the mental health professionals and the researchers— there's a lot of great people that I've dealt with. I think there's phenomenal people doing phenomenal work out there. The big question is, why do so many people want to end their own lives? I think that's the question that we should be asking. I mean, forget how they do it, and I get that The firearm, if you can cause the pause, I think that's Walk the Talk America's, you know, initiative is to cause the pause where if you could stop somebody from completing death by suicide and pause that action, the chances of them following through go down. Right.

So you started with that, a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Correct.

Another way of saying that.

Exactly. And if you could stop somebody, like, statistically, if you could get past whatever that time period is, the person's going to maybe back away from, you know, completing the action. So that's like another thing that's in there. So it's just, this is a very complex thing. And talking about Walk the Talk America, one of the studies that I had read was this Convergence study. And I don't know if you had a chance to read it or not, Brooke. It came out in, I think, December. I've got some notes here on it, actually on my phone that I'll be referring to in a little bit. But Convergence is like this kind of like a think tank. And what they do is they bring together different walks of life to kind of— and different points of view and perspectives to solve problems in society. So they're discussing things and they try to come up with really good solutions. And apparently the way it's been told to me is they were approached several times, hey, we need to solve the gun issue, we need to solve the gun issue. And finally, what they decided to do was they did a study on trying specifically to zero in on the death by suicide by firearm. Right. And again, like my whole modus operandi is it doesn't matter if it's by firearm or by somebody jumping off of a bridge. I think both actions are meaningful. It's just that this definitely affects us as gun owners. So the convergence study brought together a bunch of different people and Um, Rob Pincus was one of the people involved. Mike Soudini was involved. And, um, also, um, I think they had some people from Everytown, from Gun Safety, as well as Giffords involved.

So, so for those of you watching, I did just drop the links both to a bunch of John's information— that was the first link I dropped— and the other one is about the article he's talking about right now.

Right. So the thing is, one of the, one of the participants that was close with the study had told me that Giffords was involved. And they did not want to be left on the list of, you know, participants, because at the end of the study, there was no actual Hey, we need to do legislation here, or we need to come up with laws that are going to be prohibitive towards gun owners. And so Giffords asked to be not included. And that's something that somebody close to the study told me. Now, Everytown for Gun Safety, they also participated, and I reached out to them for comment, and I think it's fair to give them the opportunity to discuss these things and speak to them, you know, when I'm writing about this stuff. They decided to not, you know, give comment, which is fine. But at the end of— but at the end—

hold on, hold on. Wait a second. I'll fix it.

All right.

We're going to go with this audio for John right now because his wife is away. And if his kid gets on the internet, he may not be here for another interview. So with that, while we have this brief intermission while he takes care of that, I'm just gonna do a quick shout out to Peter for stopping in. He is a CCDL outreach coordinator. PN Woods, like, yeah, correlation data is absolutely horrible. A quick hi to Gary Gizzard. And then Pianoids, as far as your next question about quality researchers that you recommend, I'll try to remember to circle back to that at the end because right now he's got counseling with a child currently.

I think we might have— I have really bad internet, so I think the Netflix flicked out on him is what happened. So I think we're good now. So, okay, sorry, we'll find out, right? Sorry about that.

We see we had the plan before we started, so I saw the little I'm like, oh, we don't want to get the wife upset.

My eyeballs were darting everywhere. And I'm like trying to talk about the convergence. The thing about the study was they brought all these people together from all these different walks of life, these different perspectives on these things. And at the end of the day, they didn't say, hey, we need to have these laws that need to be put in place in order to you know, fix our issues, they came up with some salient, some salient ideas. And definitely, you said you have the links there for, for that article. The article covers a lot of the study and talks about it. There's links to the study there. And I think people should read them if you want to spend the time to, to go over the whole study and everything. I think it's, it's worthy. And One of the comments that was made during their launch, because they did a Zoom launch online, and I think I linked the video in both of the articles because I did one for Ammo Land and I did a different one for Bearing Arms. So I did two different articles. One for Ammo Land definitely covered the launch video a lot more. You can watch that if you want to.

I did drop the Bearing Arms one. I was throwing up Peter Estrada's thing because Honestly, in the investigation, a lot of what's in this article that he's talking about gives some answers. And, and I was very excited at the last testimony, because one of the senators who was like heading the bill was interested to know that I wanted them to do more, that focusing on gun violence wasn't enough, because you want to stop violence long before anyone has a gun in their hand. You want to stop suicide long before anyone has a gun in their hand. That, like you said, that cause to pause, you know, what do you have to live for? What is, what is the Christmas movie everyone watches all the time that I can't think of the name of?

It's a Wonderful Life.

Yeah, right. It's— Charlie is showing off because he wasn't just on YouTube, he's on you, he's on Facebook and YouTube. So, you know, I get extra love from Charlie tonight, which is surprising because I like really started a bash fest on him last Sunday, Saturday, because I do believe the gun world, as lovely and wonderful as we are, we really are here to bust each other's balls a lot. So there's that.

So the final thought that I had on, on the convergence study was when they talked about it, they said that during the study and, and, and the collaborations, there were parts where people completely clashed. Completely shut down and they had to end the feeds. And it was like, we'll talk about this next week, or we'll talk about this in 2 weeks. And you had a lot of those moments where things got very stressful and very tense. And still at the very end of everything, there weren't any legislative, you know, suggestions. And again, Everytown was listed as a participant. They chose not to comment when I reached out to them, and I was told that Giffords participated, but they said don't, don't use their name, don't use their information. And I think that's cowardly. I think that's garbage.

Yeah, well, some people like being in their own echo chambers.

Sure.

I definitely, when I started doing research on violence prevention because of Sandy Hook, I then also went to the I didn't go to the NRA. I didn't go to Giffords. I went to FBI and government and that sort of stuff.

Sure.

But we have, we have a very sad comment. Um, my friend Lori Blackwell, um, a friend of hers died by suicide this week.

I'm very sorry for you.

130 people are going to lose their life by suicide. It's, it, it's the most— it's so much more common than people even know. And Lori, you have my phone number, so you know you can call. I know that people do tend to have reached out to me in the past. So because of Suicide Prevention Saturday, it is sort of how people will be like, oh wait, there's someone I can talk to. And the great thing is there's all sorts of resources like below, 211, for example, if you just want to talk to a random person who's trained to actually talk to you and that sort of thing. So I see Netflix is working in your background now.

I don't know how loud that is. I can't really hear it, but yeah, distracting. I could put a request to have it lowered.

It's all right, then you have to go find him. So gun websites, that they— we're gonna go with maybe anti-gun people— medical studies, not criminal or social studies, because of the facts or creates reported by doctors who often see negative aspects of gun use. Yeah, if you want to find an anti-gunner— I mean, not all of them, but yeah, go to an inner city ER. I mean, it's one of those things that is super, super hard. So, all right, what else? We have so much. All right, so I also— I was watching your interview with, uh, Cam. Okay.

Yep.

America. And at the end of that interview, they said that you are now John, the 2A Lorax.

Right.

Do you remember why you have that? Could you share with my folks?

Sure. The Lorax was there to talk for the trees, right? And I think that's important for gun owners. Who do we have to really speak for us? In this arena, you need to have that Lorax. So they gave me that nickname. I mean, I'm not saying I'm that guy. I'm not the Lorax. I could be a Lorax of the gun owners, no more or less than you, Brooke, like in the work that you're doing, and no more or less than any other gun owners that are trying to bridge the gap between these worlds. And that's like Sarah Joy over at Hold My Guns and the work that she's doing, and that's tremendous work as well. Somebody needs to speak for the gun owners when these things are coming up, and in particular legislation and bills and things like that that are going to, you know, cripple our freedoms over something again that number one, it's not our fault. Number two, that's not our intention. And then number three, you're talking about a completely different It's a completely different subject and you can't, you can't mix the two. Yes, they intertwine, but you have violence and violent acts and then you have having to deal with juggling mental health, suicide, and all of those other things. These are two different things and you can't sit here and use— you can't use those numbers. You cannot use those suicide numbers if you're going to talk about violence. It's inauthentic. It's garbage and it's outright lies. If they're going to say we need to pass this law to stop violence and you're going to use suicide numbers, it's actually pretty disgusting if you think about it.

Yeah, I mean, it kind of plays into what G-Webs is talking about. When you actually take the time to look at everything, like Peter was saying, the politicians can be really lazy, but when you look at everything, there's pretty much all the studies actually say when they really are honest studies, legislation does nothing. Laws do nothing.

Yep. And there was a study that I read about so-called mass shootings or active shooter events. And this was a study that it's a little bit of an one-off than what we're talking about here. But it was done by the Rockefeller Group commissioned by Phil Murphy here in New Jersey with his anti-gun multi-state consortium that he's got going on. I think Connecticut's involved in that.

Is it the Mayors Against Guns, that one? Not so many guns.

Okay, it's, it's like this new one from actually the governors. And like, this is where you run into some constitutional issues because it's multiple state governments capitulating against people's civil liberties. But That's a different—

Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry.

That's another different podcast, right? Yeah, it's a different conversation. But something that the study found was, and this they were talking about active shooter or mass shooting events, right? And active shooter is the way the FBI classifies this. So we know that. So there's no mass shooting classification when you look at the FBI crime statistics. So if somebody is talking about a mass shooting, they're not talking about active shooting statistics from the FBI. Two different things. So, like, you don't want to conflate those. And that was something that that study— it's the Rockefeller Group. I wrote about it over at Ammoland, and they talked about that as well, like, the definitions of so-called mass shootings at the end of, like, their study. And, like, this wasn't widely distributed, right? Like, they didn't have, like, this giant press event like, oh, we got this great study. At the end of the study, they were kind of like, more laws aren't necessarily what we need to fix this issue.

Yeah. And it's one of those things— sorry, when you're talking about the FBI, what I was writing down is the other thing that I learned because I started looking at this stuff in 2013, 2014. And one of the other things about the active shooters and the definition for a mass shooting changed. So it's like from 2010, so from when they started the statistics to like 2010 or 11, it was if 3 or 4, 4 or more were killed, and then they dropped it to 3 or more. So it made it look like in the statistics there was this big bump where in actuality there was not. I think the other part of it was that the 10-year AR ban, right? The assault rifle ban from Clinton. They did studies through that as well, and they're like, the actual number of crimes that are committed with a long gun is negligible at best. And they actually saw— to begin with, crime actually went up in the middle of that 10-year ban.

Well, and that's the statistics with the long gun crime. So like rifles, which includes ARs, includes bolt-action, you know, rifles, it includes break-action single-shot elephant guns, rifles, right? There's— I think there was more deaths by people bludgeoning other people than by rifles. So you're more likely to be killed by a hammer than you are to be killed by a rifle. And yeah, that's like, yeah, hands, feet, blunt object, and whatnot.

So, um, all right, so we do have a request to ask you to turn your kids, um, your, your camera, your, uh, the TV down just a little bit.

A little bit.

Yeah, so I'm gonna move you for a second. I'm gonna say hi to everybody real quick. All right, so, um, let me say hi to everyone real quick. Mike, I know you're talking about gun websites, letting us know that yes, his kid came along and they finally got his Netflix so that he can in theory do this in, in whatever it's called. So, Hi Airguns, 2 Live Moo, nice to see you, Michael, Charlie Cook. Yes, want to put this up there for Lori. Um, because that is a horrible thing to deal with and everybody deals with it different, and I'm absolutely here for you if you need anything, of course. So I think I got caught up on everybody. DJ, did I miss anybody? Because I know you're out here too. I don't think I put anything up you did other than that. Um, yeah, so I'm not gonna lie, it is hard when there is noise in the background trying to stay But we're trying to keep him out of a wife jail. That's really what we're trying to do is make sure that he doesn't.

I think we're good. Is there anything that anybody needs me to kind of reiterate that if it was distracted, I'm happy to do that, or we could just carry on.

I think we will just carry on. Oh wait, but while we have got this pause, I do want to go back up to PN Wood's comment. Who are the quality researchers that you actually like? Do you— are there any bodies of work that you enjoy and like, oh, this is as close as we are going to get? Because I think statistics was definitely one of the best courses I took in college because it was like there— it's impossible to have an unbiased study, but we can try to limit the bias. It's the best we can do, right? Because there is no perfect study, because there's always a flaw in every study. And the example they use was, what's your favorite color, as a question, versus is your favorite color red? Theoretically same question, but not really, because you're asking people to pick red as your favorite color. So Anyway, so yeah, you like—

do I have any favorites? Not necessarily. What happens is, and I haven't been reading like tons of, tons of, tons of studies for decades, you know, so I've been reading the studies as they come to me. Sure, you can pretty much sift through and there's a pretty decent barometer again by the language that they're using. Is this biased or is unbiased? And then from there, you've got to really look through it. And that's the problem with all of them. I never know what I'm going to get. So I don't have a straight answer for that. I really thought that the Convergence study was very good. And from that group, Dr. Emmy Betz, she's a researcher and a doctor out in Colorado. She was responsible for, or part of the people that put together the safe gun storage map in Colorado for people to be able to bring their firearms to an FFL and have them hold on to them if needed. And that was something that she was involved in. And a lot of the work that she does, I think, is really good. 100%.

I don't have a link for that, so we'll have to look that up later. So you can hook me up. Hit that, hook me up with that later so that—

Sure.

I'll put it in the description.

But I think she's also gotten mad about things that I've written where, you know, there were, there was a study and I had, I should have sent you this piece. It was in Washington State and they, they found this statistic that something like, I don't know, 40% of people that died by suicide by firearm didn't admit to the doctors in this study that they were gun owners. Right. And so, like, they're sitting there having their study and they're saying, well, we can't say one way or the other. We don't know, you know, if these people went out and bought firearms or if they were gun owners previously. I said, I think the answer is pretty glaring that these people, at least the majority of them, were probably firearm owners, number one. And number two, no, they don't trust you. Okay, and that's just the way it is, and it's unfortunate. But why is it like that? Because again, they've tried to weaponize medicine against our civil liberties. And I don't think they were very happy with me saying that, like the quiet part out loud. Like, you know, I don't have to not say that as a hypothesis because I'm writing this from a journalism perspective. And I could say, in my opinion, I bet you they were gun owners and they lied to you because they don't trust you. And the reason they don't trust you is because of the way all doctors behave. That's not all doctors, right?

Right.

This is kind of the zeitgeist that I don't— I don't think there's too many people that are listening right now or watching that would disagree with that statement.

So I dropped the link again for people who just joined us for the Bearing Arms version. Version. And you said the one in Ammoland might be better because it's got a video in it.

Well, I think they both have the videos. The Ammoland one specifically covers their release video and kind of talks a little bit towards the interactions, I think. So they're both— I mean, they're both decent about the study. They both cite the study. And more importantly, they link to the study. You could read the study on your own. It's not like it was super long.

Right. And I mean, this is the other thing that's super important. One of the signs that's here on my wall is trust but verify. Because you and I can tell people whatever we've learned, but it makes so much more sense if people actually want to go find the information. So, um, the next link that I just dropped is talking about the Walk the Talk America podcast that you did with, uh, Cam Edwards as well, because they really do talk about, um, as those of you who've seen this before, Walk the Talk America is really about bridging that gap between professionals and firearm owners and the clinicians that people need to talk to if they're going to talk about suicide prevention and get that mental health space open to gun owners for so they're not afraid. So I know you're all here watching this, but I would definitely go watch that one. I don't know what episode it was, but you have the specific link for that because in that one, you guys all talk about the breaking down of barriers, how gun people do not trust doctors. I know recently they have, you know, just talking about walking into the doctor's office and on your little piece of paper you're writing, do you own a gun? And it's like, for most of us, that's like, what bra size are you? It's a very personal question. It's just like, uh, and I understand because like I've been suicidal. It's but I didn't own a gun at the time. But it's just like they're trying to figure stuff out. But, you know, part of, part of working in the self-defense world is you are cautious about everything you do and say and just wantonly giving your information out to someone. I mean, I'm a fan of concealed carry because I don't want people to know whether I've got anything or not. So, but anyway, all right, sorry, I'm like, I could go on and on.

No, I, I mean, I think it's important And it definitely is. Bridging that gap is an important topic, I feel.

And I mean, I think with Walk the Talk America, with Hold My Guns, with doctors— what is that?

DRGO. It's Doctors for Responsible Gun Owners. And a massive hat tip to them. There's a link. Charlie, if Charlie's listening, Charlie, get the link to Dr. John O'Dean. And toss it up there where John Adin talks about the ethics violation. I think this is what really upset the people on that one study I was talking about, Mike, because Dr. John Adin is like, it's none of your business. This is an ethics violation. Do you want me to report you to the board? Does your insurance know that you're talking about something that's outside of your expertise? So Dr. John and I have his video, uh, linked from Charlie's show, um, in several of my articles. I know definitely one, but I know I've quoted him more than once because the way he lays it out, and it's like, this is how I'm gonna handle this, especially with the physician. Like, I have my own physician that I've been seeing forever. He knows who I am, he knows what I'm into, and stuff that we don't talk about politically. Like, I know what his politics are, he knows what mine are. And we don't bring them up. And it's probably for the best because we're not there to talk about politics, right? We're there to talk about my health.

And yeah, and one of the worst things thereof is like freedom doesn't seem like it should be something that goes into politics, but it always gets turned into that. And it's just like, all right, we need to be able to agree to disagree. If you don't want a gun, that's fine. But also don't— I mean, my biggest challenge when I meet a lot of these people who are totally anti-gun is like, a lot of them are just really scared. They're not necessarily, you know, they're really not necessarily anti-gun, but they've been taught that the feelings that they have against violence and against killing and all of that means they must be anti-gun because only guns kill people. And it's just like, when you get to talk to these people, like they talked about in the Walk the Talk America, they've talked about a couple times when they went to the Students Demand Action event and they're like, we have to talk to these people, we need to get in there. So I'm gonna throw up a couple of the links. So Walk the Talk America, the Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership, drgo.us, and then we talked, we checked on Sarah with Hold My Guns, and we'll get you some other things. Because one of the things that when I started this, because normally this is a 15-minute show, not an hour show, is that I wanted to be able to give people resources. And so like the Foundation American for Foundation for Suicide Prevention, or the 211, is one of my go-tos. And for me, it's really exciting because there's so many more resources that I'm able to give out now to specifically gun owners But as we know, how great would it be if we just focused on mental health and suicide prevention across the country, not just people who own firearms?

Right. And those groups that you mentioned right there, Walk the Talk America, Hold My Guns, and Doctors for Responsible Gun Owners, they're, they're all doing really great work. These are people that care about both the well-being of people and they care about gun owners because they are gun owners. So undoubtedly they all are all gun owners. They are part of our tribe. They, they are one of us and they're not looking to do things to do harm to us. They're looking to help us. So those are groups I absolutely 100% would say financially support them, uh, go to their resources, check out all those links, and then Also, like Walk the Talk America, they have resources for instructors. So for you firearm instructors out there, they have handouts, they have flyers, they have a lot of really— and FFLs, people that sell firearms, they have resources that are very valuable for us to give out to our students. Yeah, perfect. Their mental health screening, it's anonymous.

This is one of those things where it's just like I didn't realize how this worked, but it's like, take a mental health test. What are you worried about? Right? Um, I don't think she's here, but postpartum depression as a mom, just having a kid, what are you looking for? I love Mike's story about, you know, checking in with his daughter and asking her to take the depression test and her coming out of her bedroom later saying, Dad, good news, I'm not depressed. And so like, here's a teen and I mean, I don't want to get crazy sad about all this, but seriously, the teen suicide rates rising since 2013, to know that this is something that's simple enough for a teenager to, to take is just that much better. And you know what, if you don't know which one you should take, you can just take them all because it's free. So there is that. But yeah, so here's another free resource. Oh, I'm scrolling on the wrong page. Hold please. Uh, what John was just talking about is, um, flyers and instructor slides. So if you want to add this to your, um, to your classes, it's all right here. Download it for free. Um, I actually already have the NSSF one because they sent it to me and I didn't know about this, so I didn't have to print anything. But that's just it, is like, it's super exciting that as a gun community, we have more stuff. Is there more for us to do? Sure. Are we at least trying to start to catch up? Yes.

Because I know we're not going to be— if, if we're not putting ourselves at the table to continue to be invited to the table decisions are going to be made without us. And aside from the moral obligations that we have to look after each other, because I feel it is a moral obligation to look after each other. And, you know, there's probably not a single person listening or viewing right now that if one of us were to reach out to the other one that would say, I don't have time for you. So, hey, I'm having a hard time right now. Who's going to say I don't have time for you know, like, we're a caring community.

Uh, yeah, I definitely use that in my testimony all the time. I'm like, I wish I could bring you to the range with me. I wish you could meet my shooting family. Um, and it's just, um, it's one of those things where it's just like, you know, Lori just dropped a bomb, right? She just lost someone to suicide. It's absolutely horrible. And here's everybody's response It's like, oh, let me know if you need anything. And I know better because the truth of the matter is I need to pick up the phone and check in with her. Because when you're freaked out, when you're overwhelmed with grief, all of these things, it's like the last thing you actually want to do is reach out to someone. And it's one of the things that I find when I'm at funerals where someone has taken their life that nobody wants to talk about it. It's like, oh, they died, but we're not going to talk about how or why. Or the conversation is, I didn't know, I had no idea. Like, you know, talking about Cam's— oh, who was it? Uh, his wife's brother, I think, is what was Cam's story about who, you know, they knew someone who—

right. And his, and his story was also, he said, you know, like, this isn't my story to tell. So it's very difficult cult, you know, you deal with these things. So, yeah, and, um, I'd be remiss if I didn't bring up Cam, that, uh, he just recently had a death in his family. Um, so he talked about this on Twitter, I believe yesterday. Um, so if you're connected to Cam, just check them out, send them your thoughts and prayers. Um, Cam, if you're listening, we love you, you know, and we're always thinking about you, bud. Um, so he did, uh, I think his son passed away is what the, uh, the Twitter announcement had said. So, uh, he's going through a rough time right now, his eldest, eldest son. So, uh, he's, he's in our thoughts and prayers.

I mean, and maybe grief is something that I should talk about on this as well. And we do from time to time. I, I, my, my, my topics are very random. Sometimes it's about taking that deep breath in, putting your shoulders back, and having that moment for yourself. Sometimes we do talk about death and how people deal with it or don't deal with it. There are lots of ways to get help. And the biggest challenge I think is people don't even necessarily know how to find the tools. So it's that much more exciting to have places like Walk the Talk America. They're like, here you go, here's brand new free tools that you can have. NSSF also for have a brave conversation. Oh, who's the other one? There's so many, and it's exciting that I can't think of them all because there are so many. But it is, it's a hard, hard problem. And I think it was Peter Strada said earlier, is like, people want to be lazy, that they want there to be a simple answer for this complex problem.

And it's easy to say it's their fault, it's the gun's fault, it's your fault. And say, hey, look, look at— listen to what we're saying. We don't like this either, so, um, meet us halfway. And that's the other thing that, you know, when you get down to the politics end, they don't— there is no meeting halfway on the political end. There's just, just take. Yeah, you know. Yeah, the ones that want to take just want to take.

Yeah, and if you've never seen it, I actually— my favorite YouTube video is a really short one. It's on G Webb's site, @gunwebb's site. I'm just going to show it up so y'all see what to look for it. But it's about the Second Amendment cake, and he's like, oh, that's forever ago. I'm like, I know, but it's still my favorite. And it talks about the Second Amendment as an entire cake and when the first piece was taken and the next piece and the next piece and the next. Sure.

Yeah.

And the fact that we never get any cake put back.

Right. And that's the same thing as Anthony Calandro from Gun for Hire in Jersey. He talks about it. He calls it the salami. So you have a salami. Hey, man, give me your salami. I'm not giving you my salami. Just give me a slice and then another slice. And the next thing you know, And do you have to still watching?

Put your link in.

30 million salami sandwiches later, I got no salami left because I was so benevolent with my salami. Or bologna is the other, um, analogies, is just slice by slice.

Well, it is just because it's like that as gun owners, the, the whole thing of you love your guns more than your children. I'm like, uh, no, there's plenty of mamas out there that love their children much more than their guns. But right, they have their guns so that they can protect their children. So, but it is, it's been fun. It's, it's almost, it's, it's, um, if you all— oh, you know what, that's why I don't. So DJ, if you want to grab the Amazon link for this, y'all can go buy Decoding Firearms and it's easy to read and support John. Like I said, page 7, and also like he said, in the index. But it's, it's, it's very simple, it's very easy, it's awesome because it goes over lots of things. It's definitely more than the basic NRA pistol permit class because I did actually read through most of it.

It's, it's long. I know it's long, and I've got people that are very close to me that haven't read it. So I don't take an offense. And I had this conversation with my wife, I think yesterday. She's like, you don't think XYZ person read it? I was like, no, they didn't read it. I'm like, it's long.

But it has an index. You can go to the part.

It does have an index. But I think the fact that it's long, it is comprehensive. And I tried to pack as much information in there. So if you're a new to gun owner, new to guns, or you have that new gun owner in your life, it is something that I think would be valuable to them. And I think you could— I mean, you've read through a lot of it, so you could corroborate that, I hope.

Yeah, no, no, it is. It's great because it's not like a lot of lingo and that sort of thing, and it, you know, mentions how to think about stuff. And I have a couple different favorite books. Shoot by Julie Golub is another one of them. And it's just like, I love that again, you can go to the index and look for the part that you want and it will make sense to you.

Sure.

So, but on that note, Gwebs, which I cannot find his question to highlight it, he asked, since he's working on publishing his first book, do you have any, uh, suggestions for getting to publication?

Tell them to drop me a DM and we'll we'll talk.

Okay, well, I suppose that works.

Drop me a DM, I'll answer your questions. That's, you know, and anybody wants to break into this world, just drop me a DM. So you could find me on Facebook as the Pen Patriot, um, page. Um, you could find me on, um, Instagram as jpetrolinoiii, uh, Twitter John Petrolino. I have a personal Facebook page that if I know you, I'll, you know, I'll accept a friend request if I know you. But on, on the Facebook side, The Pen Patriot, and you can drop me a DM. And sure, not a problem at all. Or drop me an email. If you go to my website, there's a form there. Just fill out the form. I'll get the email. It comes directly to me and I'll be able to respond. So, you know, if anybody's got questions and things like that that you don't want to ask publicly, by all means, reach out to me any one of those ways. I'm happy to answer questions. Also, I mean, on the other end of things, if people have news tips, please, I always love news tips. I like to write about people doing things just like, you know, Brooke, your testimony. I saw that, I grabbed it and, you know, I said, hey, there's a story here that needs to be told, um, and, and talked about her testimony and, and whatnot.

So I just dropped that link too.

So, um, so thank you. Yeah, for sure. So just drop, drop me a line.

All right, very cool. Um, yeah, so I'm just looking to see like what else I pulled up. I'm like, did we actually hit everything? Walk the Talk America having so many resources is spectacular. I think one of the things that also I feel is near and dear, especially, I don't know, the military community, the veteran community, the gun community seem to be a lot intertwined. And the fact that a majority of the suicides that occur are male, that by suicide by firearm. And then you take that number and then a majority of the men that are dying by gun are also veterans. And so it's one of those things, it's like when you actually look at everything that's happening, it's like, where are we failing? Where is that number? And it's just like, well, there's all sorts of ways, right? And it's just like our military veterans and those that are still serving. They don't even have to be out of the military. And it's just like, the gun community cares about everyone, but I think there's a special place in our hearts for those servicemen and women that have come back and sort of not had what they needed. So I think it was important to mention that as well. All death is horrible. Every soul that is lost is is, is another lost soul. And I think what we tend to learn from loss is how can we make this better? What can we do to help someone else not suffer as badly? And, um, and that's kind of a question everyone's gotta ask themselves because it's gonna be different answer for each one of us.

Um, huh.

All right. Yeah. So we're gonna end on an easy note. Hold on. ReadyGWebs has got easy for us, right? What is your opinion of future for this effort? We raised awareness to solve, fix the issues of suicide and get gun grabbers off our backs. So I'll let you go first because I've just been chatting.

So, John, I mean, I think we're at a point and we're at a really good point now. If you look at these groups and the work that they're all doing, I want to see them all come together. And I want to see them all testifying in Congress. I want to see them all on the record, the professionals, the doctors, the mental health professionals that are saying, hey, what some of our colleagues are doing, it's wrong. And this is why it's wrong. And I think that's what I want to see. I want to see our people's voice get amplified where we are now in congressional record. When, you know, legislation is coming up. And beyond that, I'd like to see legislative efforts like, oh, we don't need any more laws. I want to see legislative efforts that protect us and firearms owners and, and things to, you know, like, here's an example. Here's something that we can do for like a law change, like all of the rigmarole that you have to go through when you go to safely store a firearm with an FFL. Well, it's like, how about New Jersey, for example? Like, if I was having a friend that had an issue, and they said, hey, man, can you hold on to my guns for me? I'm having a rough time. The answer to that is no, because New Jersey law doesn't allow it. These are the things that solution-wise I want to see happen across the country where people can come to terms across the board and say, hey, Is it wrong for me or somebody to say, hey, I want you to hold on to my firearms because I'm having a rough time? And that's where also something else is like another solution. It's a sidebar that probably should have been brought up a while ago, the integral part solution. So, all right, no, Billy, or whatever the guy's name is, Billy, I can't take your guns. You know that. But give me your slide and your barrel. You know, that's not taking the gun. At least you got to work. You got to work to get another— a new slide and barrel, right? Or whatever. And that might be enough to cause a pause, right? So that's what I would like to see. I would like to see our people and our voice being amplified across the country. And I want us also to be taken seriously. You know, I want a seat at the table. That whole Lorax dynamic. I'm very serious about that. Who's going to speak for the gun owners? More people like Brooke and Mike Sardini and Jake Wiskirchen and Cam Edwards. These are all voices that speak for us. Like, that message needs to transcend our echo chamber and get out there further.

Yeah, I think one of my biggest things is to break some of the stereotypes, because that statement of gun owners love their guns more than their children, right? I'm a mom. You can't say that to me. I mean, you can, but I'm kind of going to argue with that, right? To me, I think that— all right, I'm gonna say I'm biased, right? In that I think gun owners actually more seriously want to actually stop the problems, whereas a lot of people who just want to outlaw guns don't really— aren't looking at the problems. So I think we kind of come from a better place of understanding because we study self-defense and we understand where the violence is. We realize it causes an effect. It's just like, I mean, we— there's so many horrible violent stories. And some of it is mental health, right? And oh wait, we're talking about suicide prevention. But like Walk the Talk America, that, uh, I'm sorry, but I did just watch it before. This is the, um, interview. It's like Jake talks about, is like, we need to make sure people are fed. We need to make sure people feel heard and understand how to deal with the emotions they've got that are going on and have those things. And maybe we're we're not necessarily always focused on suicide prevention, maybe just general mental health, where all of a sudden we don't have 12-year-olds and 13-year-olds taking their own lives. So it's like, I think as gun owners we're doing a better job of trying to break apart this horrible problem. And like in that interview that I'm going to keep referring to because it was awesome, it's a generational thing. We are not fixing this in a year. No, help get the ball rolling down the hill so a decade or two from now we see true impact. There is no quick fix.

No, there isn't a quick fix. And everything that's being scaffolded today, it needs to be pushed forward. So we need to perpetuate that for sure.

And Harding says he loves your idea of give me your slide or barrel and I'll take your revolver cylinder. That makes so much sense. So Harding Dyes is a— he likes revolvers, so that's why he wants to make sure revolvers are included. He's a cowboy action shooter.

That's what I was trying to say. Okay, okay. I apologize. I wasn't trying to be—

no, no, no. I'm just letting you know why he added the revolver thing in there.

Okay, yeah. You can take the revolver cylinder too.

It takes— Absolutely. Let's see. The key is they are told a solution. Gun owners in defense have been motivated to find, promote actual root cause versus care and prevention. I mean, yeah. So you're welcome to you, right?

The root, the root cause of all of these things. And again, if you look at them again, we want to be fed. We need to be watered. We need to be, you know, in the sunlight, right? If you cover some of these basic things, like a lot of this other stuff kind of falls into place, right?

Um, you know, we have our basic human needs, and this is one of the things Tony Robbins talks about because I've been following Tony for a long time. I've worked with him, all that fun stuff. And it's just like, you got to start with the basic human needs. You need to be fed, watered, sheltered, clothed. When you get there, now we can work on comfort, safety, security, being heard. And it's like so much violence is from frustration of not feeling heard, not feeling paid attention to. And it's just like, you know, I talk about my personal thing is like when I was suicidal, I figured I didn't matter. And for me, the solution to mental health murder violence is we have to believe that we are important. And I don't mean like narcissistic, like, ooh, look at me, right? But understand that you are a valuable soul in the world and you are here for a reason.

And you have meaning. Yep. You and your life have meaning. And I think that's another thing that as a society we need to embrace and put out there. To our fellow people, maybe a little bit more.

I don't know. I know, sadly, it's like, and part of it is it doesn't matter how many likes you get.

It's like, well, we also know the social media thing, talking about the, the high instance of suicidal isolations and stuff like that of adolescent females between the ages of like 13 and 16, that how that skyrocketed has almost undoubtedly 100% to do with social media, cyberbullying, and self-perception through all of that nonsense and filters. And I think if you pulled the plug on that, you would solve almost all of it.

Yes, there are times when I'm like, an EMP wouldn't be a bad thing, but there'd be other challenges. But yeah, it is, it's— yeah, self-worth to me is the number one thing. But so that's my solution. We need to build each other up. We need to make sure that we are built up within ourselves without the hubris of thinking we know it all and that we always have something to learn. So with that, with our final solution of saving the world, I will let you get back to your son.

Oh, thank you so much.

In front of Netflix, I don't know.

Thank you so much for having me. It was def— it's definitely a pleasure to talk to you. And I appreciate the work that you're doing. So keep it up for sure.

Thank you. Thank you. It's— it is my plan. G-Webs has said I'm not a machine. But last year was my worst year in that I think I missed 3 weekends. Now sometimes I do do it on Sunday because life does not always go according to plan. But I only missed 3 weekends. Since 2018, as far as I know. Not that I'm counting. So, but thank you for your time. I appreciate your work. Like Barbecue, I will say I was very flattered to be part of one of your articles last week or the week before. It all blurs together after a while. It does. And I don't know, have a great weekend.

Yes, you too. Thank you so much. And thank you for those of you that tuned in.

Yes, thanks everybody. And good night. I always got to cook it twice.