Why God Chose A Leader You Didn’t

This is a persecution of a political opponent. He should be nowhere near the White House. This doesn't fit in today's philosophy, okay? I'm gonna be honest with you, I don't think people really think about King Saul enough. I don't know any political leader in the United States that has murdered 85 ministers, their wives, their little children, and all their animals, and burned their city. I mean, this guy is wicked. He's a murderer. And David goes, don't touch him, because who can stretch forth his hand against his leader and God not judge him?

You just said a lot of things that I feel like people are going to be either upset or confused. My governor right now is completely for abortion. You're telling me I'm supposed to honor that?

How in the world are you supposed to honor somebody who's murdering Christians in cold blood? It's not easy, but this is what you do. Welcome to the Jon Bevere Podcast. I am Jon Bevere, joined by my son Arden. Arden, it's great to see you today.

Good to see you too. It's my normal intro.

Yep, yep, it is. Maybe I should start getting a little bit more creative on my intros. No, you're great. Okay, so I wanna open this one up. Have you ever been doing what you really believed was right and it actually really was right, but you got punished for doing what was wrong? Have you ever been unfairly treated by a friend? Have you ever been unfairly treated by a leader? A pastor, a boss, a parent? How did you respond? How should you respond? These are some of the things I wanna talk about today, we're gonna talk about today, and we're gonna see what the word of God has to say about it. Because, you know, today there's so much injustice out there. Today there's so much unfair treatment out there that I think this is something everybody grapples with.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm excited to dive into this because I've had so many stories, especially on the, a leader mistreating you or even a spiritual leader mistreating you that I've had a lot of people come to me and ask those questions. And I feel like it's always a difficult conversation to navigate. And I'm like, you need to talk to my dad. I'm like, he's got obviously some great things to say.

Well, they've come up with a term and it's called spiritual abuse. And it's just, much of it, much of what they're teaching is just a way to get people away from the very truth that will actually bring healing to them.

Yeah. And you're not—

'Cause if you're living under the flag that I've been spiritually abused, now all of a sudden certain portions of the scripture don't apply to me.

Don't apply to me if I disagree with them and I see them as spiritual abuse. But there is like a reality of people utilizing spiritual abuse to do things.

Oh yeah.

So it's like, that's a very real thing.

And you know what the Bible says about that? Be not many of you masters, knowing we will incur a stricter judgment. The judgment on my life is going to be stricter because of the fact that I'm in the fivefold ministry. Do you understand that I have walked with the awareness of that and that puts a lot of godly fear in me?

Yeah, which I mean, that's a big revelation that I feel like a lot of people need to understand because as today's day and age, as you can gain a platform by yourself for yourself, you are going to be held accountable for the things that you say and the things that you breed and speak into onto that. Whereas I feel like before, it was a little bit like you grew up with that understanding. You knew that as, as someone released you into that platform and kind of put that weight of ministry onto you. And so I, I don't want to jump too far ahead because I know we already set it up. There's a lot of things.

Let's just— let's, let's make this a little deeper, okay? Let's just make this a little bit more juicy. Our steps are ordered of God. Can God actually put us under act a authentic spiritual abuser? Can God put us under that kind of leadership? I think that's something that needs to be addressed. I mean, because the way the spiritual abuse is being taught, it's like, oh, if my leader does one thing wrong, I can exit, I'm gone.

Just go somewhere else.

But, you know, I think this is something we need to address. I know that's a tough question.

I'm like, this is good.

But let me ask you a question. Did God put Samuel under Eli? Yeah. Was Eli wicked?

But as a boy.

As a boy.

Like not just an adult. It's like, you know what he's doing wrong.

And the other bosses he had was Hophni and Phinehas who are going to bed with women right at the temple. They're actually taking offerings by force. And are we all gonna just say, oh, God didn't put Samuel under Eli and under Hophni and Phinehas.

These were 3 examples of men that was the only basically example of men. 'Cause it was, I mean, he saw his dad every now and then. It was what, once a year, whenever sacrifice was taking place? That's when he saw his mom. Well, his mom weaned him, of course, and then brought him there. But that's his examples. And yet he flourished underneath them. And God spoke directly to them.

Let me make this really clear. God is not an abusive father. God is not an abusive leader. God is perfect. He is just. But God also, you know, I remember when Addison was in the third grade. Addison was in the third grade and he was coming home and he was reduced to tears because his teacher was so unkind to him and so unfair to him. I mean, this teacher had an angst against him. And I guess it kind of climaxed one day. I mean, here's a third grader, my oldest son, and the teacher, there were kids talking, they were all lining up to go to recess. And these two boys behind Addison were just talking and laughing. And the teacher turns around and they, They got quiet really quick and the teacher starts yelling at my son. Now I was faced with, what do I do here? Do I go to the school? Do I go to the principal and say, how dare you? This teacher has obviously got an angst against my son, how dare you? You know what I did? I took advantage of it and I said, Addison, this is the way you respond. This is what you do. This is what you do. This is what you do. And your mom was kind of upset with me. She was wanting me to, but I thought, you know, I didn't like author this teacher's cruel behavior. I mean, this was repeatedly going on day after day after day. I didn't author this, I didn't instigate it, but I'm gonna sure teach my son through it. So I said, this is what I want you to do, Addison. I said, I want you to go up to your teacher when you can mean this. I said, you're gonna pray for your teacher. I want you to start praying for your teacher every single night. And when you can do this, I'm talking to a third grader. I said, when you can do this, I want you to go to your teacher when there's no one, no one in the class. I said, after, after hours, I said, do it in between classes. Remember, they're not switching rooms in third grade. This is his only teacher. And I want you to tell him, I'm sorry that I'm constantly talking back to you. I'm correcting you because he'd go— because I said to him, I said, when he started yelling at you, what did you, what did you do? He goes, I yelled back and said, it wasn't me, it was them that was talking. And I said, okay, here's where the problem is. You're defending yourself instead of letting God defend you. And so I started giving the wisdom of what to do. I said, you just keep your mouth shut. Don't say anything. And when you get a chance, I want you to go to that teacher and I want you to say, I'm sorry that I mouthed off, that I correct you. But Dad, he goes, but Dad, "Hey, he really does correct me when I'm not wrong." I said, "I don't care. You have no place to talk back to your teacher and talk disrespectfully to your teacher. You apologize for that behavior." So he goes and he apologizes, right? Right? This is amazing. It turned that teacher's heart. Do you know that who got— now every year in this school, a student in a classroom got Character of the Year Award. Do you know who got Character of the Year award given by that very teacher? Yeah, Addison. Addison.

Yeah.

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So go over to goodranchers.com and let's get back to the table. So let me ask you this, because obviously today's day and age, there is a lot of miscues that are happening. Specifically, let's say, let's stick on the classroom, but I know this is a larger topic. But like, I remember even I had an instance when I was in high school where a teacher had put a basically pornographic novel in front of us. And mom was reading it to me one night, 'cause I was too tired, and she freaks out understanding what she's reading. And she immediately goes to school and—

As she should.

Yes, and goes and navigates that.

'Cause that's sin.

Okay, so it's, okay, that's what I'm trying to ask is where is that line? Because I think you're seeing parents stand up in school boards Yes, they should. Students stand up in front of school boards and addressing those things.

But you're saying because that's sin. Sin. So the Bible makes it really clear that if, if authority tells us to sin, there's a higher authority. Peter looked at the Sanhedrin and said, whether we obey God or you, you judge. Because the Sanhedrin, who were the leaders, the political leaders and spiritual leaders in Israel, said you are not to teach or preach in this name of Jesus. That's a sin because Jesus's word was go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. So Peter says, whether we obey God or "God will judge you, you judge." However, Paul, if you go to Acts 23:4-5, Paul looks at the leader and says, "You whitewashed tomb," right? He just lets him have it. The soldier that had struck Paul for what he said looks at Paul and says, "Are you gonna revile or insult the high priest like that?" And do you know what Paul said? Forgive me, I didn't know he was high priest because scripture says you shall not speak against the ruler of your people. Now he's no longer high priest. Jesus is Paul's high priest, but he is the leader of the political assembly of Israel. But he is the leader of government in Israel. So Paul repented of calling him a whitewashed tomb. Now, this is where understanding truth helps us to navigate when we're unfairly treated.

So yeah, which, I mean, and I know, again, we— let's— I want us to be able to get into it because obviously I'm looking— we've talked about parents and navigating those things. I see this even from a perspective of church leaders, which I feel like we need to talk about huge, but then also, of course, is politicians, as you kind of just went into right there, of navigating the one who is overseeing those things and how we walk in humility and grace and also appropriate within our responses or our rights.

You know, I just read this morning, my Bible reading was Romans 13, one of the Bible readings I'm going through Romans right now, Psalms, and the book I'm going through is Micah. And Paul makes the statement, he said that we are to honor government leaders, right? And it brings me back to the time when President Clinton was elected as President of the United States. There was a man who became extremely popular and He became popular on television. This is back in the days we didn't have social media, we didn't have iPads, we didn't have iPhones, we didn't have any of that. And so I kept hearing from people for 9 months, you gotta watch this guy's television program. He's hilarious. And he is bashing what the government's doing and all this liberalism. And so I'm in California, I come in from a conference, And I jump on the bed with my— I had my running suit on and I just thought, I want to see something. And I was looking for headline news or something like that or something sports, 'cause that's usually what I like to watch just to wind down a little bit. I actually don't even do that at all anymore. I just go straight to bed. But I remember this guy was on there. He had a wild tie on and he was hilarious. And I started thinking, this is the guy everybody's been telling me to watch. I saw his name and I thought, "Oh, this is great." And Arden, for 20 minutes, I'm laughing hysterically, okay? 'Cause the guy is really funny. And everything he's saying about President Clinton and his administration, it was true. But I felt like I was gonna throw up inside. Finally, I got the remote, I clicked it off, and I said, "Lord, why is it that everything this man's saying is true. He's hilarious, but I feel so grieved in my spirit. And I heard the Holy Spirit speak so clearly to me. Acts 23:4, "Don't speak against the ruler of your people." And I went, "Oh my gosh." And then I started thinking, all these scriptures started flooding my soul. Pray for those in authority. Give thanks for those that are in authority. Honor those who are in authority. I mean, all these scriptures, 1 Timothy chapter 2, Romans 13, on and on and on, 1 Peter, right? And I went, oh wow, God, you never said criticize those in authority. You never said call them out. You said pray for them, honor them, bless them, don't speak against them. That changed my life. And you know, Up to that time, I couldn't stand President Clinton. I'm going to say, I don't care if he sees this podcast. You know, God started having me do is he started having me pray for President Clinton every day. The Lord said, I want you to pray for President Clinton. Yeah. Do you know, before he left office, I absolutely had such a heart and a love for that man. And I realized that love was developed. It was the love of God in me, but it developed. And, and listen, I am so glad that before the Monica Lewinsky thing happened, where the abominable act was done in the Oval Office of the White House, I was praying for him because boy, you talk about really critical and outspoken I would've been. Now, John the Baptist looks right at the King Herod and says, "You are breaking God's law," right? He was assigned as the man of God to go and bring that corrective action to that king and speak the truth to that king. For the king's benefit. But he wasn't going around saying, "Oh, he's a jerk, he's this," and entertaining all the people talking about him. We have to learn how to keep and maintain honor for the position. Because Peter writes, this is amazing, 1 Peter 2, he says, "Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king." Do you know who the king is that he's writing about there historically?

And it's interesting, he says twice, like he could have just covered the king within all of honor all people.

Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king. This is 1 Peter 2:17. It's the verse right before what I'm about to read.

He's talking about Herod.

He's talking about King Herod. This was Herod Agrippa I, who was the person who beheaded James and then arrested Peter and was going to kill Peter because he was getting favor with the Jews. And if you read about Herod, King Herod Agrippa I, he actually murdered Christians to gain political favor with Rome, with Caesar. And yet Peter writes and says, honor him. Now, how in the world are you supposed to honor somebody who's murdering Christians in cold blood? It's not easy, but this is what you do. You're not honoring his behavior. You're honoring his position.

Okay, so you just said a lot of things that I feel like people are going to be either upset or confused on. And I want to make sure I'm highlighting some of these things because going back, even what you said about Bill Clinton, you said that you, as he left, you loved Bill Clinton.

Deep love for him. I want to— I wouldn't have voted for him.

Exactly. Vote for him. And this is what I think. I think people need to almost disconnect in a way is we vilify people so much to a degree that we forget that God sent Jesus to die on the cross for that individual as well. And so looking at Bill Clinton, you're able to see Bill Clinton through the eyes of God. I see that he is a creation made by you, and I love that individual and I want to see him. I want to see him saved.

I love that.

And so you've not vilified him in such a way that you're looking at him like that man should rot in hell for the rest of his life. I think that's one instance that we've got to understand. I think what even what you said there for Herod, I remember we were in a room. And there's a bunch of people and they were questioning you about the current administration at the time. And they were saying, you know, and you were encouraging them, God, you gotta honor this administration. You have to, like, the election took place, the things that happened. Now we pray for those individuals. And they asked this question of what if you feel like that administration was in there unlawfully? Like they got in and they stole something, they robbed some, whatever it was, they said they feel like they got in. And I remember you used the example example of Herod to them, and you said Herod gained favor, basically got the position with Rome by killing and murdering Christians or Jews.

Further his political agenda.

Yeah, yeah. And I remember just thinking like, wow, like, and they all sat there just stunned. And, and I think there's always a way that we can try to justify, and, and I want to make sure as we're going into this, because you said something with the teachers about sin, that we be clear around things for sin with political leaders as well. Because I think there's people obviously saying is like, my governor right now is completely for abortions and is trying to push abortions as a main thing within his term. You're telling me I'm supposed to honor that?

Or what is that? You honor his position, not his behavior. It is a sin to murder innocent babies. It is violating the Sixth Commandment of the Ten Commandments. It is shedding innocent blood, and it is an absolute sin. So here's what you have to delineate. There's a position that we honor, but there's a behavior that is sin that we do not honor and we speak out against.

Which, 'cause obviously they're talking about a monarchy. We're dealing with a democracy. So how do we navigate that with even a democracy of understanding the rights that we do have?

Well, I mean, you have no business saying anything if you don't vote. And number two, if you're voting because your mom and dad voted that way, or your mom and dad voted that way, or most of the people in my tribe vote that way, you're out. You're wrong. You need to vote according to righteousness. Hey, we are supposed to be involved. If you look at almost every one of the prophets were involved with the kings. I mean, we have people that are involved in leadership of nations in the Bible, so we're supposed to be involved. And that's why I so appreciate it when believers are active in their city council. Yeah, they're, they're running for governor. They should, because righteousness exalts a nation, but sin will bring down a nation.

But one more question on this.

Sorry.

And I'm just asking all these questions.

No, because you're asking questions everybody's like fighting within their heads.

And this is good. And I know there's, there's challenges and there's nuance within there.

Can you keep your question in mind? You know, when this began with me is when President Clinton got into office. I was depressed for 3 days and one— and the third day, you know, God let me wallow in my depression for 3 days. Third day, God spoke to me and he said, nobody gets into office without me knowing about it. And all of a sudden I realized, wait a minute, the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Appointed. Now listen, let me make this really clear, okay? Yeah, their position is appointed, their behavior is not. Yeah, correct. So you can be appointed by God into a position and have corrupt behavior. That behavior will be judged because God entrusted you with the position of leadership.

Yeah, go with your question. No, what you always say is all, all authority is of God. That does not say all authority is godly. And so understanding the difference—

say that again, that was really good. I know I've said that from pulpits and I forgot.

All authority is of God.

All authorities of God. That's Romans Romans 13:1.

Yes, it does not say all authority is godly.

The behavior is not of God, the position is. We honor the position.

That's why Peter would say, "Honor King Herod Agrippa." So last question around political area is what about impeachment coming into this? Because you're saying the appointed, so no one gets into office without me knowing about it. The ability that we have as a people group to impeach individuals. How does that play into it? And how do we—

like, what does that system set up by our forefathers? Our forefathers said, hey, if we get— they were trying to prevent a, a person in executive power in the United States having the kind of corrupt behavior that they just came out of in Europe. They were trying to protect the American people from it, so they gave the ability. So that's why you got the legislative branch, you've got the executive branch, and you've got the judicial branch, because the three branches are supposed to be able to protect the people so that their voice can continue to be helping, uh, in the government, unlike a monarchy in Europe. Now, our forefathers set that up that way. They were godly men. They prayed. But the thing is, we, you know, we aren't under a monarchy, but we still are under leaders. Yeah.

So when it's having the ability to go through it the correct way, in my mind.

Yes. Right. Yes.

It's, you know, if they're abusing their power in a way that is not deemed correct within the system that was established by our government, then it's going about it in the correct way through the system that was established by our government, not just standing there and not doing anything about it and just blaspheming or snaring.

[Speaker] We've just gone all out. Let me just blow minds with truth, okay? Romans 13, "For this reason, I raised you up." This is God speaking. "I raised you up, Pharaoh. For this reason, I raised you up that I might make my name known in all the earth." Okay, let's stop and think about this. Who put Israel under Pharaoh? God told Abraham hundreds of years, your people are going to be in a land.

Now, oh, and Joseph said what we talked about last time. Joseph said this was actually God. This was God. He said it wasn't his brothers, it was—

this was God bringing you here to preserve. And, and they stay there for 430 years. Yeah, God knows the end from the beginning. He knows that this Pharaoh, Ramses II, is going to be— which, wasn't that amazing? We were in Egypt. He was the only king they ever discovered. They had his body and were you— you weren't—

yeah, no, I was there. Okay, they had found residue of—

they found salt water in his body. Yeah, in his— in the— that it soaked. I mean, that to me was mind-blowing. But anyway, I'm sitting there, I remember when I'm looking at the— I'm looking at the very bone structure, and I remember it still had some hair. Um, oh yeah, of the man who stood against Moses and God.

Okay, for this museum in Egypt, in Egypt, yeah, in Cairo.

'For this reason, I've raised you up.' Now let's talk about Pharaoh. Pharaoh is oppressing the people of God so bad. They've got stripes on their back. They're living in slums. He's actually killing their children. Okay. What is going on? I mean, did— it was actually the hand of God that brought the people of Abraham, Abraham's descendants into Egypt. And God is the one that said, I raised you up. Yeah, he didn't say you got elected. I raised you up because nobody gets into power without God knowing it. But let's think about this. God is much more concerned about our character and about the kingdom being advanced. Up to that time, nobody on earth knew who God was. Nobody. Remember what Moses said to God? When I go to the leaders of Israel, who shall I say sent me? Because Moses realized even the leaders of Israel didn't know God's name. And God said, you tell the leaders, go read it in your Bible, it's there. I am that I am sent you. Now, Pharaoh doesn't know who God is. Remember, he kept saying, I don't know who the Lord is. The leaders in Israel didn't— or excuse me, the leaders in Egypt didn't know who God was. The people of Egypt didn't know. Pharaoh was like, I don't know your Lord God. The leaders in Egypt didn't know the Lord God. The people of Egypt didn't know the Lord God. But after God got done with Pharaoh, the whole world knew who he was. Because years later, the spies go into the Promised Land, and the woman of Jericho said, "We know what God did to Egypt." Let's go a couple hundred years further. Now, Hophni and Phinehas and Eli are over the tabernacle. Israel's at war with the Philistines. They bring the Ark into the battle and the Philistines cry out, this is the gods. Elohim is what they say, which is a name used for God Almighty or false gods. This is the gods that destroyed Egypt. So even hundreds of years later, they're still talking about what God did. Yeah.

Now, before the Philistines were they were fairly far away from Egypt because the Philistines, they were like kind of Greece area in a way. Yeah.

And so just thinking Philistines, weren't they in modern-day Gaza and areas like that? Or I thought— I thought you might be right.

I thought they had originated like this for sure. Yeah. And maybe someone can fact-check.

I don't know where they were, but I thought—

I thought it was that because I remember I was researching— sorry, just a little tangent. I was researching giants and the giants, and then I remember that it's talked about the Philistines and actually coming from the area of Greeks, which I was like, oh, that actually makes sense with Greek mythology and them talking so much about science and, yeah, my God, all these things. But someone, someone can fact-check. So they need to—

before, before God does what he does, he raised— he hardens Pharaoh's heart. God just does these things with all these plagues, the lice, the flies, the frogs, the blood water, the hail that turns into fire. And I mean, it gets the world's attention. Now the whole world, the known world at the time, knew he was God and knew for generations. Mm-hmm. So we have to look at this and go, God didn't create Pharaoh's behavior. Mm-hmm. But God knows in advance what Pharaoh's gonna do. And God says, in this, my name will get out throughout the whole earth. And sometimes we only look at our small world instead of the big kingdom picture. If Jesus would've been like us, he would've said, my world right now, my disciples have fled, they don't know where to go. I have the ability to call 6 legions, 12 legions of angels. I need to get outta here. But Jesus had what? He had the world in his heart to love the world. And he laid down his life under cruel leadership from Israel at the time, cruel leadership from Rome at the time, and he said, I will take this unfair treatment so that many could be saved. So this brings us into what Peter writes. Yeah. Okay, so Peter says, you, you who are slaves— now this could have been translated, you who are servants. I'm going to modernize this: you who are employees, you who are students, You who are citizens must submit to your masters, bosses, teachers, coaches, political leaders with all respect. Mm-hmm. Do what they tell you, not only if they are kind and reasonable, but even if they are cruel. Mm. Peter just told us to submit to our leaders even if they're cruel. Yeah. Now, again, we don't— if a leader tells me to commit adultery, yeah, there— whether I obey God or you, you judge. Okay. We're not talking about sin. We are talking about, hey, they're just cruel. Hey, I want to take a moment to say thank you to everyone who has chosen to financially support this podcast. Because of your generosity, the John Bevere Podcast has actually reached over 15 million views and has over 3 million watch hours. That's just crazy when you think about it. In just one year, that means millions of people around the world are hearing bold biblical truth. We truly couldn't have done this without you. From the bottom of my heart, thank you for standing with us, praying with us, in helping us share these timeless truths for our ever-changing times. If this podcast has encouraged you, I just want you to consider partnering with us to make uncompromising followers of Christ who will transform their world. Just click the link in the description to give now.

Because I think this is where— and I've, you know, I've read people's reviews on Beta Satan when they're going back through it. And some of their things, when they put a negative review onto it, they're like, well, this this individual's justifying cruel and abusive leaders and saying you need to stay under them. What is the dynamic here?

'Cause you're gonna be judged strictly is what I'm gonna say.

Help me understand. So again, you're saying the separation obviously is sin. So if I have a father that is abusing me, am I to stay underneath his leadership? Just talking really practical. Or what is staying underneath his leadership?

We addressed this a couple podcasts ago. Yeah. David did not stay in the palace when his boss was trying to kill him. Yeah. Okay. King Saul. Yes. He got out of the palace, got out of the abusive behavior, but he still maintained his respect because even when Saul was killed, judged by God, David taught the men of Israel of Judah to sing a love song to Saul and Jonathan. Yeah. And called him his anointed. So we're going to get to this in a second. Okay. All right. You slaves. Okay. Employees must submit to your employers. Okay. Let's say citizens to your political leaders. Do what they tell you, not only if they are kind and reasonable, but even if they're cruel. All right. So Addison's teacher was being very cruel to him on purpose. Because he just had an angst against him. For God is pleased. Now listen to this. For God is pleased when, conscious of his will, you patiently endure unfair treatment. What is unfair treatment? When I'm doing what is right and I get punished for doing what is wrong. Of course, you get no credit for being patient if you're beaten for doing wrong. You deserve it. But if you suffer for doing good, now, did you hear that? I'm being punished by my leader for doing good. And endure it patiently, God is pleased with you. For to this you were called. People ask me all the time, what is my calling? What am I called to do? Here's your calling. For to this you were called. What is the calling? To handle unfair treatment correctly because God knows the strength of character it will build in you. Hey, let's stop and think about this for a minute. Lucifer fell, but Lucifer never got tested. Yeah. Adam and Eve fell in a perfect environment with God's presence walking in the garden. They never got tested. Jesus learned obedience by what he suffered. Peter says, as Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourself with the same mind. Okay, now wait a minute.

When you said on the last podcast that the number one thing that will get you out of the will of God is offense. Offense.

Yeah. Okay, now watch this. We're going to keep reading. For to this you were called because 'Now here he's using Christ as an example. Christ also suffered for us, leaving us his example.' What's his example? 'That you should follow in his steps. He never sinned, nor did he deceive anyone. He did not— listen to this— retaliate when he was insulted.' Who was he insulted by? The Pharisees. All right. 'Nor threaten revenge when he suffered. He left his case in the hands of God him who would always judge fairly. Wow. Okay. Wow. He left his case in the hands of him who would judge righteously. Now, if you go back, you will find Jesus is in the highest court of the land. He's standing before Pilate. There is no higher court. And the Pharisees who are the leaders of Israel, are speaking absolute lies and false testimonies about him. And if you go to Mark 15, you will find out that he, Jesus, didn't respond to one of their accusations. He kept his mouth shut because he was committing his case in the hands of God. It so was unusual that Pilate said, wait a minute, you're innocent. Aren't you going to make a reply? And Jesus said nothing to Pilate so that Pilate marveled. Pilate had been in this judgment seat, watched men condemned, watched them testified against, watched the men frantically defending themselves, frantically trying to accuse their accusers. And Pilate's watching this man who he knows is innocent. His wife had a dream about him. Yeah. And he's not defending himself. He left us his example. So in other words, it's an unrighteous thing when we defend ourselves, when we avenge ourselves. Is a righteous thing when we let God avenge us or God defend us. This is what Romans tells us in Romans chapter 12. Do not avenge yourselves, but leave it in the hands of God because God says vengeance is mine. So it's an unrighteous thing when we avenge ourselves with another one of God's children. Yeah. As a parent, when did you brothers get in trouble? When you avenged yourself on your brother. We didn't care what your brother did to you. We said because you avenged yourself and you went back and you hit your brother for what he said to you, you're the one that's going to get punished.

Because you would deal with the—

we deal with that. But we also— you would also punish us. We also punished you. Yeah. And this is what God's saying. Yeah. It's not your place to avenge yourself on another family member. It is. It is my place to defend you. Yeah. And Jesus, here he is. He didn't retaliate when he was insulted. He didn't threaten when he suffered. So then you come to 1 Peter chapter 3, and Peter says— he talks about the wife having a husband who is treating her unfairly. And he says, hey, the wife's going to be won by her gentle and meek. See, this doesn't fit in today's philosophy. Okay, I'm going to be honest with you. But Peter comes along and he says in verse 8 of chapter 3, "Finally, all of you be of one mind, have compassion for one another, love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous. Don't repay evil for evil. Don't retaliate with insults when people insult you. Instead, pay them back with a blessing, knowing that you were called to this." Here it is again. It's our calling to handle unfair treatment correctly. Because why? That you may inherit a blessing. Guys, this is your mindset. The next time you're being unfairly treated by a boss, by a spouse, by a parent, pastor, by a pastor, you are being set up for a blessing. God is setting you up to be blessed. If you handle it correctly. And the correct way to handle it is Jesus is our example, okay? And if you go to all the gospels, you'll find out he's being insulted, he's being threatened, he is being lied about, false testimony, and yet he keeps his mouth shut and he commits his case into the hands of God. I want to end this with a story.

Well, can I, can I just say one quick thing? Because obviously there's so much on—

can I end with this story and then you say this thing? Can you remember?

Yes, I can remember, of course.

All right, so I'll never forget this story as long as I live. A pastor friend of mine preached out of these very verses. After the service— he had a big 5,000-member church— a man came up to him and he said, I'm Black. I was in line to become vice president in my corporation. He said the position came open, They gave it to another man and they gave it to him for one reason. He's white.

I'm black.

Yeah. He said, now I have legal proceedings that I'm getting ready to start this week, but after what you just preached this morning, you have completely messed me up. Yeah. And this is what my friend said to him. And he was so wise. He said, do you want to do this God's way or you want to do it your way? Yeah, you can take— you can start your legal proceedings. You'll have an angst in your spirit. You may even win those legal proceedings. Or do you wanna do this God's way? Do you want Jesus to be your example? He said, Pastor, the reason I'm standing in front of you is I wanna do it God's way, but I need help. Would you please pray with me? So they prayed together. So you know what this man did? The next day he walks in to the guy that got his promotion. Everybody in this department knew that he was supposed to get it, but this guy from the other department got it, right? He walks in, he says, I just wanna be the first one here to congratulate you, and I want you to know I'm gonna be your best worker. Hmm. So several months go by, several months, because God's deliverance, his blessing always comes, but it's usually later than we expect. All of a sudden, after many months, a company approaches him who is a much larger insurance company than the one he's working at. And they said, hey, we've been watching you. We watch the way you treat your clients. We've seen things. Some of our leaders have seen this. We want to talk to you about coming to work for us. He said, I'm not interested. I've been at this company for years. I have my clients built up. I'm not going to start all over again at my age. No, I'm not doing this. They said, look, would you just give us a lunch? Can we just talk to you over a lunch? And he said, you're wasting your time. I'm not leaving this company. He said, I have too many years invested in it. I'm just not leaving. So they go to lunch and they go, hey, we want to hire you. He said, I told you on the phone, you're wasting your time. They said, look, this is what we want you to do. We figured you would say that. We want you to go home and take a week, talk to your wife about what you want us to pay you. And then let's have lunch one more time next week and you tell us whatever you want us to pay you. So he goes home. He's so unmotivated. He doesn't even talk to his wife about it until the night before the lunch a week later. He says, I don't want it. I'm too old. I've been with this company for too many years. I've built up my clients, da da da, on and on and on. He says, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna think of a salary that is absolutely ridiculous. When they see the salary I think up, they'll laugh me out of the lunch. So he types out what he wants to make. He thinks of this ridiculous salary, right? So he goes to lunch and they start the lunch, this other company, they go, did you talk to your wife this week about the salary you want us to pay you? And he said, yes, I actually did. And he starts reaching in his lapel pocket, 'cause he's got a coat on. A suit on. He starts pulling out the letter he wrote with the ridiculous salary. And they go, no, no, no, no, no, no. We don't want to see what you want, what you want us to pay you. We want to first show you what we want to pay you. They slide this letter across. He picks up this letter. They want to pay him 4 times what he had written down on his ridiculous salary. 4 times. And he's so shocked, he doesn't say anything. And they think that his shock He's not approving, is that he's— he doesn't like it. So they upped it even more while he's quiet, and they added more benefits. He said, gentlemen, gentlemen, he said, uh, they— I'm a Christian, I just want to go home and pray with my wife about this. They said fine. Well, he goes home, and you know what, when they pray together, you know what God speaks to his heart? He said, you put your case in my hands, this is my vengeance, take the job, it's my will. And you know that man doesn't work in Dallas, last I heard. Last I heard, he got promoted to their world headquarters and is one of the top men in this massive corporation. Now, he had legal proceedings he could have started on. He would have had angst in his spirit. He might have gotten his promotion in that smaller company. He might have won.

Or gotten some compensation.

But he never would have been where he is today. And that's why I'm saying that it's much better when God defends us than when we defend ourselves. Now, ask your question.

No, I'm putting— I want to put a couple bows onto a lot of things that you said, because there's been so many good things. Even what you said right there is, I think, one, tying that back into Jesus's case is I think Jesus's case obviously was not answered. Well, from an outside perspective, would have been not answered, or God didn't justify Jesus to a worldly perspective in the way they was, because why? He got crucified. And I think sometimes we're thinking, no, I leave it in God's case, which eventually I'll see the light.

I'm leaving my case in the hands of God.

Yes, in the hands of God. And eventually I'm going to see whatever it is in my lifetime, which that man got to see that in his lifetime.

Yes.

I think sometimes even you have to be okay with, God, I leave this in your hands and I might not know what the full plan is, but I just know that I'm giving this into you. And then I will know what that full plan is. Maybe if I don't see it in my lifetime, because I think we almost live in this place of like, we hold on to bitterness.

Yeah.

Because we haven't seen that come back.

And we lose the blessing of God. Exactly. We hold on to resentment, bitterness, unforgiveness. We lose that blessing. That you may inherit the blessing. That man inherited that blessing that God had intended for him. Yeah.

Well, and then the other things that I wanted to put a bow on is understanding one is that you said you— David repositioning himself from Saul. So looking at your state in the church world, family world, government even as well, is if you are in a sinful situation and it's causing compromise, that you have that opportunity to get out underneath it. But in doing so, you honor, you make sure you keep your heart of honor. 'Cause I think a lot of people, as we even touched in the church hurt, that is spiritual manipulation, spiritual abuse, that's thrown around a lot. I have heard cases where it's like, yeah, that, that's not, that's not right. Like, that shouldn't have been said.

I don't think people really think about Saul, King Saul, enough. I mean, think about David. God puts David under Saul. Mm-hmm. God says through the prophet Samuel that David's going to be king of Israel. Yeah. Saul, he kills the giant, gets Saul's daughter's hand in marriage, and then he gets asked into the palace. And then Saul makes him his armor bearer and he's asked to eat at Saul's table. David's thinking, oh, God's bringing this to pass. Yeah. But now all of a sudden, when they come back from battle, the women are saying Saul killed his thousands, David kills his ten thousands. Saul now is great with David as long as David is forwarding his agenda. Yeah. Now he's a threat to David. So now he's trying to kill David. The leader that God puts David under is now trying to kill David. You think God didn't know that? Are we saying that God was like, oh no, Mm-hmm. Saul's trying to kill David. Yeah. Do we have another leader for David? Do we have another church he can go to? No. Now he leaves. He leaves. Yeah. Because you don't stay in an abusive situation.

And that's what I'm trying to highlight.

You don't stay in highlighting this. He gets out because if he stays in that palace, he's going to be pinned to the wall by a javelin. So he gets out of the palace, but he never loses his honor and respect because think about it, he's 12 years in the wilderness. 12 years in the land of the Philistines or the wilderness. Now, in that 12 years, you can't see your family. Yeah, all your friends you can't see. Your best friend Jonathan you can't see. Your wife has been given to another man. I mean, you talk about a corrupt leader. Now, Saul, in 1 Samuel chapter 24, Saul hears that David's in this wilderness of En Gedi. David has 400 men with him, or it might've been 600. It fluctuated from 400 to 600. And they're in the back part of this cave and Saul and his soldiers come to relieve themselves. The soldiers go, "This is your chance." But you know what David's thinking? Somebody lied to my leader about me. I mean, he thinks I'm after his throne. I'm not after his throne. I'm a faithful servant. I'm gonna prove my faithfulness to him. So David cuts off a piece of his robe and he goes a great distance. He says, "Saul, Saul, I was even encouraged by your men." to kill you, but I am loyal. I am faithful to you. Please. You're hunting me like, like a dead— like a dog. Would you please understand? My heart towards you is pure. Yeah. Saul even looks at him, says, David, you're more righteous than I.

He goes home and then—

and he goes home and David's thinking, oh, I've finally proven to my leader that I'm not corrupt. I'm not after his throne. Two chapters later. Yeah. Saul's back after hunting him down with 3,000 of Israel's finest warriors. One young man he's hunting, okay? Now, the Bible says that God puts the army into a deep sleep from the Lord, and David knows it. And he looks at his soldiers and says, who will go over there with me? And God picks the perfect candidate, Abishai, who is Joab's little brother. And those three guys were bloodthirsty. Abishai and David sneak into the middle of the camp because they know they're in a deep sleep. There's Abner, there's King Saul. Abishai grabs the spear, says, "All right, David, just give me the word and I'm gonna put this guy to death." And David hedges. Now this is not in scripture, but I can just see David just not saying anything. And Abishai turns around and looks at David and goes, "David, don't even tell me you're not even thinking about doing this. I mean, reason number 1, Samuel anointed you as next king." This man is destroying our nation. Do you not understand? God has put this army into a deep sleep. Why do you think he put them into a deep sleep?

Because.

Yeah, because this man is destroying our nation. And then David doesn't say anything. And Abishai goes, do you not understand? This man killed 85 priests, their wives, their little children, all their animals, all the people of the city of Nob, which are helping the cities, for helping you. He's a murderer. Now, I don't know any boss political leader in the United States that has murdered 85 ministers, their wives, their little children, and all their animals and burned their city. I don't know if he burned the city, but he destroyed the city. I mean, this guy is wicked. Yeah. And David goes, don't touch him, because who can stretch forth his hand against his leader and God not judge him? Let God judge between him and me. David left his case in the hands of God. David was a man after God's heart. Now, Let's talk about this. God judges Saul. Who does he use to judge Saul? The Philistines. The world.

Okay.

Yeah. So the world, they kill him, right? So this guy who was in Israel's army comes running to Hebron and says, David, I have news that Saul is dead. Yeah, right. Here's his crown. This guy is an Amalekite who was obviously had converted to Judy, become a Jew. And David looks at him and says, weren't you afraid to put— stretch forth your hands? This is 2 Samuel chapter 1. Were you not afraid to put forth your hand against the leader? The very thing. And this guy didn't even kill Saul. Saul fell on his own sword. Yeah. Okay. He's thinking, I'm going to get favor with David because I killed Saul. So he tells David, I killed him. David says, weren't you afraid to stretch forth your hands against the Lord's anointed? Speaking of Saul. And David executes that young man. Then after he executes him, he has all of Israel— excuse me, all of Judah, the warriors of Judah, sing a song to Saul and Jonathan. So he's honoring Saul even after God judged him. There was no bitterness, resentment, unforgiveness, "I'll get even with you" in his heart. Yeah. Wow. We talked about this last podcast. I guess David forgot the 12 years of abuse that this leader that God put him under handed out to him, and he honored him with a song and taught all the men to sing that same song. Now, We have a total different situation right now. We're living in a society that Jesus said right before I return, there's going to be massive offense, massive betrayal, there's going to be hatred, and the love, the Christian love, the agape love of many is going to go cold from this. This is what I'm hoping— I was praying about this morning— is that you will hear the truth beyond the rhetoric, the noise of what is being said in the American church. Yes, there are people telling you're spiritually abused and you should get back. You should— some people even call their pastors, they call them jerks. They call them not even— they shouldn't even be having that place. David never did that. He honored Saul even when God judged him.

Well, can I say this really quick, just tying this up, is I have watched as when people leave because of church hurt or what they feel like is spiritual manipulation, which oftentimes could be— it wasn't actually, it was just actually even something that, like I— like we said in the beginning, it was actually something in scripture that because they had this filter, they don't want to agree with it or go through it. They will carry their filters into their next position. Yes. And so whether it's a leader, a boss, a family member, whatever it is, they will then carry their position or their filter into that next one, and before they know it, they start seeing their next leader in that same role. I remember I navigated something with a team member where a team member had perceived frustrations with the leader that was on our team. And that team member, I came to realize, had not hardly any interactions with that leader. It was all perceived things. Why? Because of previous church hurt or leadership hurt that that team member had to navigate. And this is the thing is if you don't work that out, keep yourself pure, keep your mind in the right place as you transition to this new place and you're thinking, oh, I'm going to go here, I'm going to go here and it's going to fix everything. Before long, it's not going to fix everything. Things are going to resurface. And it's even why I get, I get challenged when I see people calling out specifically people by name, because I think it's almost like you're building up a frustration for all these people and this filter that you're creating. And then you just jump over to the next thing, which I love. Something that you and mom do is you say we don't we don't necessarily oftentimes call out the individual. We call it the spirit behind it. Why? Because that's keeping our heart pure towards the individual. The love that you talked about in the beginning that you had towards Bill Clinton when he walked out of office, that love of seeing him as God, you died on the— you played the ultimate price for that individual. And I hope someday that he realizes that and gives his life to Christ. That's the love that you had for him. And now you were able to keep your heart pure. Now, the things that he was doing, the policies you put in place, the spirit behind it, you're like, no, No, I stand against those things. And I think that's something we've got to realize. It doesn't just go away because you only moved locations. No, it goes away because why? You worked on yourself, you allowed truth to transform you. And so when you remove yourself from that situation, because let's say it was an abusive leader, it was a poor situation you shouldn't be in, that they're causing compromise and sin. Did you remove yourself from the situation? It would have been so easy. David's surrounded by people that thought the way he thought, were living in the same situation that he was in, all because of Saul, not because of David, all because of Saul putting David into this situation. David could have entertained all the thoughts, all the frustrations, all the things. And David could have had conversations about how cruel Saul was and how if we get our hands on Saul, we'd kill him because why? He's making us live in these wilderness. We should be in the palace.

Destroying these 5 priests and their families.

Cold blood. He's done all these things. And David would have been in that position and he would have immediately probably acted upon it. Yet David kept his heart pure.

So David is a man after God's heart. Yeah, God, that's the only person in Scripture other than Jesus you're going to hear God Almighty say, he's a man after my heart. You know, there's a lot of people that want to be men and women after God's heart. This is the way you've got to live. You want to be a person after God's heart. This is the way you have to live. You have to leave your case in the hands of God. Jesus left us an example. David, King David, who is a type of Christ, illustrates this. Let me tell you something. This world is filled with injustice. How we respond to the injustice determines our future. We either become bitter, we have a filter now that we judge everybody we meet now, every leader we meet, every, person we meet, if it's a brother or sister that hurt us, if it's a leader that hurt us, we judge every leader through that filter. And now we're tainted, we don't see clearly. Truth keeps our eyes open to see clearly. Jesus said the light of the body is the eye, it's the way you perceive things. And if that light in you is dark, how great is that darkness? And Jesus said, right before I return, so many believers are gonna be trapped in that darkness. Their love is gonna grow cold. And when I was praying this morning, I was like, God, please, this message is so important. I was offended by a leader. I was in that hurt for 18 months and I saw things so wrong. Please, if you want to, I wrote this book 31 years ago, it's more applicable today. What is the bait? The bait is being offended. "The Bait of Satan," you can get it on Amazon. Please, I plead with you. Jesus is coming so soon. And if you're harboring unforgiveness and bitterness, it's not going to be an appearing that you're going to have confidence in. John the Apostle writes, "I write these things to you so that when he appears, we may not be ashamed, but we will have confidence. Please, please, please, I'm saying this for your sake, forgive. I don't care if it was a leader, if it was a brother or sister, if it was a child, forgive the way God has forgiven you. This has been the John Bevere Podcast. Arden, thank you. You brought up some absolutely amazing points. In fact, I was going a totally different direction until right in the beginning, you started talking about, And I believe it was the way the Holy Spirit wanted us to go. And so until next time, this has been the John Bevere Podcast. We love you very, very much.