Optimizing Performance : Mental and Physical Therapy - Episode 48 w/ Tayshan Duff

Is there a limit to how far you can go? Or is it more just like, when should someone, you know, like, when should someone leave the sport? What are your thoughts about that?

So you said, is there a limit to how far you can go? The human body is limitless. Okay. Literally, the human body is limitless. If you don't believe me, look at The Rock's biceps when he was talking before the Super Bowl.

Love that.

The human body is limitless, right? So the human body, based on science and how long your cells are supposed to last, your human body is designed to live 120 years.

Wow.

The average lifespan is 77 for women, 72 for men. We're barely getting past half of that. So which means we're not optimizing. The keyword is optimization. We're not optimizing all the opportunities that we get.

I'm excited for you to see this week's episode, but before we get to that, I have a message for you. If you're a parent of an elite athlete or a coach of a high-performing team and you want— you're looking for some help or assistance with making them more mentally resilient, perform with more confidence, be more consistent, anything like that, then this is for you. I have an 8-week program all designed to address exactly that, to help your athlete be at their best on a more consistent basis and not get tripped up by those little voices in their head and getting down on themselves for mistakes, but performing like we know they can. So what I want you to do is don't delay, schedule a— just grab a time on my calendar through this link and let's set up a time to talk about your specific situation and how what I'm offering in my 8-week program can help. Okay, so it's Brynn Drescher, www.theresa.com/freeconsultation. So click this link, grab a time on my calendar. I look forward to talking to you. And now on to this week's episode. Hello, hello, hello! Welcome back to another episode of the Mental Advantage Podcast. I hope you've been enjoying all of the episodes, and today we are blessed with another special guest. I know you guys probably feel like I say that every week, and I probably will continue, so let's just get used to it. They're all special. Okay, they're all amazing. We've got doctor, that's right, don't forget the doctor, he worked hard for it, Tayshaun Duff with us today. And I am excited for two reasons, okay. One, he's on a different side of sport now, which is the physical therapy side. And if you've been watching the podcast, you know that we were talking about injuries last time. And then two, he's an ex-track athlete, which is, you know, that's where I came from. I came from the world of track and field. So is, do you want me to call you Dr. Tayshaun? What do you want, man?

For you, since you already called me a special guest, you can call me Tayshaun.

Okay. How are you doing, Tayshaun?

I'm doing good. I'm doing well. I mean, I've been looking forward to this. So, you know, I feel almost a little bit starstruck right now, but I'm going to hold it together.

Please do. Please do. You no need to tremble or, you know, send any extra flowers. Although here's my address. I'm just kidding.

All right.

You know, people say don't, don't, no, no, no, but keep it coming. So, uh, so Tishawn, tell me a little bit about— because obviously this, this podcast has been all about athletes and the different aspects obviously in the world of athletics include personal trainers— I'm sorry, physical therapists like yourself— but you were also an athlete. So tell me a little bit about your journey through athletics. You can just kind of give me the highlights of what you remember, like getting into track and, you know, let's start there.

So I actually got into track kind of like mistakenly, really. Basketball was my sport, just like everybody else. Ball is life. You know, that type of thing going through high school. And second year of high school, I got cut from the JV team.. And I was like, you know, JV coach gave me that same Michael Jordan got cut from his team speech, blah, blah, blah. If this is what you want to do, try out next year. So obviously, as an emotional wreck 14-year-old, you know, my friend pulled me aside and he said, hey, why don't you come run track? You know, track indoor season just started. And I knew nothing about track. I didn't, you You know, they had been running track since middle school. I knew nothing about it. So he said, well, hey, there are girls out there. You know, it's a co-ed sport. I signed up the next day.

Sign me up!

I signed up the next day. And so getting into it, you know, I've tried pretty much every event in track and field, especially in high school when they just throw you in something. But really jumps is where I like, and the field events is where I really kind of took off. So long jump, high jump, triple jump. Were my babies. And then I ended up being able to— well, through injury, which we'll talk about later on in the, in the podcast, I'm sure— I was still able to, you know, have somewhat of a good high school career. And very late in the, in the recruitment period, actually right after, right around graduation time, believe it or not, senior year, is when I end up getting on with Liberty University, which is where I went to school. And I ran my freshman, sophomore, and junior year there for the jumps, obviously. Yeah. So that was good. And even had a little bit of injury in high school. I mean, in college, once I got to college, it was kind of in and out plaguing me, but, you know, kind of worked my way through that.

Awesome. Well, not awesome that you got injured, but I love that that's a part of your journey because obviously we'll be talking about that. And you didn't catch it, but you said I found triple jump, high jump, and long jump. And you said that's where it took off. And I was like, no pun intended.

No. Okay. I was going to say that too. Okay.

I was like, oh my gosh, that's like a perfect thing. I needed— I almost inserted it. And I said, no, let me not interrupt him. So I actually was a sprinter. I got into jumps in college because I did not have the speed to be a sprinter at the school I went to, which was Michigan State. So I have done triple jump, I've done long jump. I'm not very good at it, you know, in that sense. But let's talk about the injury aspect. So you alluded to that there were some injuries in high school. So what do you remember? Like, when did it happen? What was the injury? And kind of like, how did, you know, how did your coach react? How did you react? Let's talk a little bit through that.

I just remember frustration, really. That was the biggest thing. What happened, what started happening to me was really peculiar, and honestly, to this day, they never figured it out, which is one of the reasons I decided to go into healthcare. So my junior year, so I started in my sophomore year, you know, just kind of playing around, and junior year started actually getting good at it. So running AAU in the summertime, you know, this, that, and the third, indoor and outdoor. So pretty much year-round I'm running track at this point. Well, I started to have a weird, a weird thing happen to me where when I started sprinting, whether it's down the runway or whether it's on the track, the whole left side of my body pretty much lost control. So the left side of my tongue kind of went numb. My left hand would curl up and come in like that, and my left foot would like point straight down. Wow. And obviously that throws off your running mechanics and is very obvious to everybody else looking at me. Which was kind of embarrassing, which is kind of another reason why I shifted to jumps, because I'm able to control that a lot better. So needless to say, I went to specialist after specialist, neurologist. I had MRIs in my brain, my neck, my, you know, spine, my entire spine. And after sitting out the whole season, knowing that the junior year is really your year to get scouted if you want to go to Division I. I just decided I had enough of it, so I stopped going to appointments. I stopped, you know, I kind of made up in my mind there, like I said, I want to go in healthcare because not being able to do something you want to do because of an injury that no one can figure out is frustrating. Yeah. So I, I can relate to that from an athletic perspective, which in my opinion makes me a better therapist. Um, And then I kind of was able to work my way around it. It's something that never went away. I mean, even to this day, if I go out and all-out sprint, I can feel it coming on, but it's something that I could kind of manage and mitigate the way that I need to. Um, and so, you know, you just kind of develop that mindset of perseverance and figuring out how to, how to achieve your goal regardless. Um, and then I made it work. I mean, to an extent.

Wow, you know, and one of the things is, you know, and for the listening audience and viewing audience, I obviously, I don't really like to do a lot of research on my guests because I like to find these things out organically. And that is just fascinating because, you know, you see so many things where the medical establishment or, you know, even profession can't always find out the cause of something. It's just there. And it's, I mean, that's, I'm sure, incredibly frustrating for the doctor, but it's worse for the patient because the patient's just looking for some sort of solution and like, just like, just fix me, right? Just make me go back to the way I was. And you said this, this was not something that was happening when you were a child. This just started happening in your teens.

Yeah. Yeah.

Very interesting. So, and I can imagine the frustration with that, but I love that you're also talking about that you found a way to sort of live with it. And to mitigate it because sometimes there becomes this like, you know, well, here's my question. Was there someone who was pretty clearly telling you maybe this isn't for you? Like, you know what I mean? This is happening to you and maybe you should not run. Maybe you should not do track. Maybe you could find a different sport.

I don't know. I don't remember that per se. Has there? I mean, I'm sure somebody might have said it. I don't know. Okay. But I don't necessarily remember that. All I remember vividly is laying in that MRI machine and thinking, I'm gonna— I gotta get out of here.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, I can only imagine. So in that, um, as you said that you went on to college and you had the same injury, I'm assuming, or was it a different injury that was kind of recurring?

Oh, different injury. So these— in college, I faced normal track and field stuff. Okay. Um, torn hamstring. Like, I, I blew out my hamstring freshman year, first meet of outdoor. We had just got a brand new— we had a pretty good facility, we just had brand new stands, and the stands were right next to the men's long jump pit. Um, no, I was triple jumping at the time, and so my first jump I PR'd and, and got a career best with that, and it was so easy. You know when you PR, it's just so easy. And for those people who don't no track. PR stands for personal record, which means I jumped the furthest that I've ever jumped before. Yeah, um, in that particular event. So I was amped up. Again, home crowd. I think my parents were in the stands. And so second, second jump, I come down, and as soon as I hit the board, it felt like a firecracker went off in my hamstring. Wow. And immediately, so that kind of took me out the rest of my outdoor season. So I ended up doing a medical redshirt that year. And then with triple jump, you know, it's a lot of impact, so I had a lot of heel pain. Um, you know, I tried to come back from the hamstring a little too early and end up tweaking that again, which is why I end up sitting out the whole, the whole, um, freshman year. So it seemed like each year a different type of injury kind of plagued you, you know. They're like those nagging aches and pains, injury. But if anyone knows the sport of track and field, it's all about being at your best, your complete best, you know, optimizing every aspect of muscle fiber in your body. Um, you know, so there are things that you got to work through as an athlete.

Yeah, absolutely. As a track and field athlete, which is an interesting thing about that sport, it's, it's a team sport, but it's very largely an individual sport, right? So you can win your event, and then that winning of that event contributes to your team's overall points to win a meet. But it isn't often, other than a relay, that you're competing with somebody from your team. Even, you know, sometimes they might compete against you in that event, but that's about it. So talk about, like, the difference that you noticed. I mean, having played basketball— I know you were much younger But I'm sure you did pick up games and things along the way, and you may have even gone back to basketball in high school at some point. What is the difference, do you believe mentally, between that individual and that team aspect when it comes to sports?

I think hands down track, track and field is one of the most mentally challenging sports and competitions that exist. Because in my opinion, I talk to people all the time about this, track is just competing for the pure sake of competition. You're— the whole point of track is just to be the best. There's no point— you're not running to chase a ball or to score a touchdown or to kick, you know, to score a bucket, any of that. It's just running to be fast, it's jumping to jump high, you know, and things of that nature. So outside of maybe like field goal kicking or free throws when the game is on the line, and those situations where it's just you and you have to deal with that pressure. I mean, track is a completely mentally challenging sport. Yeah, I mean, when it comes down to it, um, one of my, my coach one time— I think this is my high school coach, which is a very good coach— um, said training is 90% physical 10% mental. No, the other way around. Track meet, yeah, oh, mental, 10% physical.

Oh, got it, got it.

When you get to that track meet, it's, you know, the training is automatic at that point. It's just all mental, especially on the runway. And that's another thing I had to deal with as far as you have a 6-inch board that your foot has to hit or be behind or else your jump doesn't count.. And if you're just even a centimeter in front of that, you know, you just, you're pretty much disqualified. And it takes a lot of mental toughness to be able to be consistent enough to know that you got it. You got 6 inches and no room for error. Yeah. Um, or else not only do you not score, but your whole team could possibly forfeit a meet.

Um, right. Well, lose a meet. Lose the meet because they're not going to count on the points from you because you're disqualified. Now, question that, now you get how many jumps? 3, 6 on, it's like 3 to 6, correct?

Usually you get 3 jumps and then the top 8 or 9 go to finals and get 3 more jumps. Right. So there could be 15, 30 people in the field and the top 9, you know, go.

So. Okay, got it. Now, when you are coming down that runway, and I mean, I would say, I know that we mark it, right? So we, we run a certain way and then we say, okay, if I put my mark here, I should hit that board perfectly, right? Every time. That's the way that I train, right? Can you tell if by some reason you're coming down the runway, I'm about to be off, or is it just like I've trained and I either hit it or I'm gonna be over? Do you know what I mean? Is there an adjustment that happens in that moment, or is it just like, look, it is it is.

So you have what should happen and you have the real world, right? I can only speak for me because I, you know, I'm the one that trained, right? Um, but even a lot of athletes— because even after, when I was in grad school, I started officiating track meets. So I'd officiate conference meets and I would be the one saying if somebody was inbound or out of bounds. Gotcha. And I see this a lot of times with jumpers. Um, ideally If I'm taking, let's say, a 10-step approach, that means my left foot, which is the foot I jump off of, hits the ground 10 times, and on that 10th time, I should be right there where I'm supposed to be, and I can fly in the air. Got it. Um, so it's calculated, it's very calculated. But then you have external factors that aren't in practice. You have the crowd, you know, cheering you on. You have the pressure of somebody in front of you just did a huge jump and you know that you can do it as well, and in your mind I'm like, oh, I'm about to blow this out of the water, right? Or you have the pressure of my first two jumps were disqualified, I have one more jump to make it in the finals so I can get three more attempts. I— this just needs to be a legal mark, you know? And so all those mental things start throwing off your cadence. Either you run faster than you normally do Or in the middle of your run, you try to switch it up and you stutter step, you know, so there are a million different types of variables that come into play. And that's where the mental toughness comes in to where regardless of what the situation is, you know how you've trained and you just perform.

Absolutely. And I want to go back to what you said, and I apologize for interrupting because I thought you were saying the 90/10, but backwards, the way that I was taught. But it's interesting because we obviously hadn't talked earlier today, but I literally said that on a call earlier today, which is competition day is definitely the 90/10 in the way of the mental because you have trained your body what to do. And so on competition day, whether it be track, basketball, football, you have to trust that, you know, that part's taken care of. The thing that takes us out on game day is the over-efforting, right? The overcorrection, you know, not trusting ourselves, you know, getting, like you said, caught up into the crowd, which is obviously a factor in many sports. But like you said, in track and field, you really are against yourself. There's no one else there that is like, you know, passing it off to you, you know, unless it's a relay. And so you have that moment where, you know, like, Some people get the crowd into it and they clap. Some people, you got to get into a zone and you're just you, the sand, and that board, which you really can't 100% see from where you're standing sometimes. So you're just like— and I love, you know, it's been a while since I've done jumps because— and it was during my college years. I mean, obviously I remember a lot more about my sprints, but I love that you said 10 steps. I don't know if I ever knew that, and maybe I did, but I don't remember that. So I love that. Idea is like it's 10 steps. So like in my head it's like 1, 2, 3. So you said that— wait, no, so 10 steps on that left foot, not on that left. So it's 20 steps altogether but 10 on the foot that's my takeoff foot. Okay, so definitely there's a mental aspect to that. And you talk about all of the external factors. So as you went through these injuries, right, and we talked a lot about the— that aspect You wanted to get into healthcare and you obviously even saw your teammates go through it. What do you think is the sort of the cost of an injury for an athlete when they are performing at a high level?

I'm going to use this example because we've been talking about it all day. Me and, me and a few of my good, actually track friends that I, that I went to college with. Um, you could turn on SportsCenter and see the cost of injury. Yeah, I mean, we all seen Odell Beckham go down this past weekend. Yes. And I, I felt— you can look at the disappointment on his face, right? And athletes that have been through that know how that feels. I followed, um, Odell's, uh, training when, when he rehabbed from his injury, same knee. Yeah, and as a therapist myself with strength and conditioning background, I mean, you name it, the amount of things that he was doing was unreal. The stuff that he was doing at certain point after surgery, there's pretty much a criteria that you go through based on healing. So right, once you're this many weeks out, you're able to do this. Once you're this many weeks out, you're able to do this. The stuff that he was doing really early on was superhuman. And I was excited to see him come back because I knew he was going to have a breakout season. So to see all that hard work that was put in— for ACL injuries, you need to be out a minimum of 9 months. So obviously, for any, any season, that's a season-ending injury regardless of where you're at in the season. Sometimes 2 seasons you miss. If you come back anytime before 9 months, you have over a 50% chance of retearing. Are re-hurting it. So you're putting in 9 months— think about it, that's enough time to create a whole human being inside a woman's body. So you're putting in at least all that time of hard work, effort every day, and your job is literally on the line. Yeah, to have that all taken away with another injury is— it's crushing. I mean, even I bring up, um, Klay Thompson. Who, who tore his ACL. Yeah, he tore his ACL in the, in the postseason, in the playoffs. And then as soon as he came back, on the opposite leg, he tore his Achilles tendon and was out for another year. And even with him coming back now, you can see the first game— I watched the whole first game. I mean, I'm clued on to number 11, and you can slowly see his hesitation coming back and how much he has to regain confidence I've been out for 2 years and I've been putting in all this hard work. Is it going to pay off? And so me as a provider, I understand those emotions and I feel those feelings very strongly. And so that makes me work even that much harder and that much closer and look at those fine-tuned things that other people might miss that put you at a risk for another injury and try to address those as soon as possible.

You know, you talk about, and you mentioned this too in your journey, you came back a little early, right? So there is always a compulsion or desire by the athlete to beat the odds. Now, when we talk about, you said minimum of 9 months. Now, of course, there is those outliers, right? Like, I know there was another guy that also came back from, I mean, they just come back from their injuries and they get cleared by a doc. After—

we'll say it again—

Saquon Barkley. Yes. So they, they go through the process, they come back early, they're, but, you know, basically cleared by the professionals like yourself. Why does he re-injure it? What do you think when it comes to the Odell Beckham situation? Because this is where I want to kind of talk about the mental game, because he's in the biggest game. Has he been to the Super Bowl before?

Odo Beckham? Uh, I don't know.

I would have to Google that. Okay. Yeah, I'm not sure, but he's in one of the biggest games of his life. Yeah. So why do you think he— I mean, I know it's just speculation, but as a professional, and, um, and then I want to talk a little bit about that, but why do you think he injured— he re-injures? Because he spends a lot of money on his body. He says he learned from Tom Brady. He's spending, you know, $3 million on his body every year.

So what do you think? Um, I, I don't know. I, I've looked at that play, I've looked at that replay over and over, analyzed it. Like I said, I've been talking about it all day to, to my colleagues. Um, and one of my colleagues, he's the, um, lead therapist for one of the professional soccer teams here in Charlotte, and we've looked at it and we talked about it. There's two types of ACL injuries, two types of categories, right? There's contact and there's non-contact. Contact is unavoidable. That's somebody hitting your leg awkwardly. It's like getting a car accident. Yeah, you know, the injury is going to happen. But non-contact is like what he did where you try to pivot or turn or something like that. Um, the jury's at side. I haven't seen anything official that said he re-tore his ACL, right? We just know he hurt it. Uh, you're on the West Coast, you might know information I don't know. But with a— let's say he tweaked it or sprained it like that. Um, usually with a pivoting injury like that, it's something biomechanical. So usually that points to something happened. Something either didn't prepare you for that moment, or something went wrong in training that predisposed you to a risk of injury. So usually from— now, we wouldn't necessarily say it out loud,, but usually from a professional standpoint, we would look at and say, what did you do in your training? Or what did you not do in your training that led you to this injury? Some people could say, well, turf, you know, artificial turf isn't the best for situations like this, this, and a third. But I've looked at his training. His training seemed impeccable and flawless. So I literally have no idea what put him at a risk for injury.

So that leads me to my next question. And there's, I don't have it right here, but there's a book that I look at And the knees are flex points, okay? They're obviously, they're joints, right? And they're big structures of, you know, support system of the body, right? The legs and things like that. And so from the mental aspect, one of the things we know is that when you're having issues with wrists or knees or ankles, typically it has to do with flexibility. And not flexibility in the sense of stretching. Yes, those are important, but I mean flexibility of being rigid in your mind. So the more rigid you are, you typically experience injury. And I know this is not something they're going to teach you, but you're going to experience injury in those parts of your body. Like someone who has a, a big back injuries, like recurring, if you were to check into their psychology, that would be someone who doesn't feel very supported because the support system of the body is the back, right? So if you have— so when you look into the psychological situation, which you can't tell on a replay. You can't tell because we'd have to know what Odell Beckham was going through, right? It becomes one of those things where you can't explain it because you don't know the inner workings of what's going on with that player. But sometimes injuries happen as a result of something going on mentally, and I'm not talking about mental health in that sense, for those of you that might be be listening and go, whoa, are you saying he has a mental health problem? No, I'm saying he may have something he was, you know, dealing with and it manifests in the body.

Yeah, it takes— and one, it takes a split second of distraction for something like that to be able to happen.

Yeah.

And if you can see, he was right in the middle of catching it and maybe trying to turn up field already. Yeah, he dropped the ball immediately and stopped. And you bring up an interesting point because the psychological aspect of pain is very real. Yes. Um, there to the point where we have what's called a biopsychosocial approach where the psychological— at some days as a physical therapist, I'm a therapist more than anything. Yeah. There are times that I use my tissue box honestly more than I use my hands or my brain. Right. And there, there's even a lot of studies with chronic pain, you bring up back pain. Yeah. So somebody that's had back pain for over— anytime you had pain for over 3 months, 6 months, it's considered chronic. Yeah. There are chemical changes in your brain and in your emotional centers and brain process that if you do brain scans, different parts of your brain start to light up and not light up based on pain that you have in your body. And the longer that you have pain, the more of an emotional component that there is to that. So Yes, what you're saying is, is very valid and even scientific.

And I think that, you know, like, obviously the people at home, most of the, you know, and I'm lay people to this industry, or, you know, the mental side or the physical therapy side, they're not— they're just looking at, oh yeah, something happened, right? Or like, what, you know, we're always looking for the physical cause of something, right? But there's more than just the physical, always. And that is the aspect that I don't think that you can't catch on a replay. You can't do it. But you know, most people— so what— and you talked about this in therapy, uh, in physical therapy, and that mental aspect. So does a player beat the odds in your opinion, right? Like, because I mean, to me, and I know this would go possibly against your industry, you can't tell me how long it's going to take me to get back to 100%. You can tell me what the— you know, the recommended— you can tell me what you know based on, but you don't know what's possible for me. Is that something that's accurate, or do you think it's 9 months, and if you do less than 9 months, you're at a risk?

No, I think it's— I think it's huge. Now, there is no— there's no refuting the fact that less than 9 months, you're at a risk. Okay. No matter how strong you feel. Reason being, The body has to go through healing processes that take certain time. Um, but as far as things maybe dragging on longer than 9 months, that's where you kind of run into situations. So there's two aspects to that. There's one, I'm super motivated, or my team is needing me, or, you know, in the professionals, you know, we have them under contract, you know, we need them back in 6 months. Yeah, you know, that's, that's an aspect of it, which is in and of itself completely, completely different situation. Or you have the, you know, thing that's kind of drawn out and the athlete is insecure with going back to where they're at, um, that draws things out longer. And physically they're able to do something, but the mental aspect is not really there. This is something that I try to address day one. A lot of the times, even if, if somebody does go through a surgery for injury I'm seeing them before the surgery, and I've been through this road so many times with so many different levels of athletes that I talk to them about the— subtly, I mean, it's, it's very kind of under the radar, but I start talking to their mental aspect way before. And a part of that is setting expectations, you know, what is this supposed to look like? Yeah, kind of what you talk about as far as the identity of an athlete. If you're an athlete, there's a whole bunch of different type of athletes mentally.

Yeah.

And if your identity is, I'm a really good athlete, I'm elite, and I'm a superhuman, and now this injury's kind of brought me from Superman to Clark Kent, and I don't know how to deal with that, that's going to be a huge hurdle when it comes to therapy, when it comes to rehab. Because, you know, so those mental roadblocks definitely affect the prognosis. And prognosis meaning the timeline or the potential to get back to where you were. And they're real things. I mean, those are very real things.

So you would say that in those, in those instances when you are working with an— first of all, I love that you're addressing the mental aspect. And, you know, because like, right, like if we're giving you a 9-month timeline in order for you to be on time, there are— so here's the question. In your profession, is there a mental protocol that is part of, like, I mean, I'm like you said, you talked about the biopsychosocial. Is that part of your training, or is that something that a PT would go out of their way to get some help with? Or is it like, do you work in tandem with another professional? How does that get addressed, or is it just part of what you do?

So all the above. Okay, there is training even, even for prerequisites to get into PT school, you have to have at least 2 psychology courses under your belt. Now the caveat to that is it doesn't matter which psychology course, right? It just needs to be psychology. So every— and I'm, I'm a very firm— I will tell anybody this— every PT is not created equal. Gotcha. You know, every PT doesn't have the same philosophy, the same mindset, and things of that nature. So, um, I speak to me. I'm very relationship-oriented. And so a huge part of getting people better is— there's a saying, um, by Zig Ziglar, which is really big as far as fitness coaches go: people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Yep. I learned that when I was in the fitness industry way before PT school, and that is something that I still live by to this day. So until I build a relationship and have a connection with somebody, there's only a limit for most people of how much better I'm going to get them. Okay, so that's, that's first. So me, I have a certain affinity to that, so I'm going to, I'm going to go that route probably a little bit more than your average therapist would go. But as far as the biopsychosocial model goes, yes, because all the research has shown that there's such an emotional or a psychological component to pain and injury and recovery. That is something that's pretty broadly taught and understood as far as physical therapy programs, programs go. Um, but yeah, that's a huge component.

Yeah, athletes, I love that. Yeah, I mean, it's so important, and yet, I mean, obviously I, I don't have— I've, I was never injured as an athlete, so I didn't have that experience. Um, and especially, I know as the ranks go up, you're talking about a lot more hands in the pot, if you will. So I wanted to talk about some of those other hands in the pot. You talked about we have them under contract, we need them back in 6 months. Is there a pressure? Obviously the athlete has their own rush to come back because we talked about the identity piece. I'm a football player, that's what I do. I'm a basketball player, I'm a tennis player, I need to be out there. Otherwise who am I if I'm not? Heard this in Naomi Osaka's documentary. If I'm not a good tennis player, who am I, right? So they struggle with that identity. And so when you're talking about an injury, that's a key part. Is there a pressure from the organizations or the coaching staff to jump timelines?

Absolutely, absolutely. And if they tell you it's not, if anyone tells you it's not, That's them being politically correct and protecting the powers that be, right? Um, even at the high school level, I treat a lot of high school athletes here in Charlotte, um, and the pressure from the coaches this past football season, um, with a lot of concussion injuries. And concussions are those things that are taken very seriously now. If you haven't seen the movie Concussion, watch it, because just not too long ago It wasn't that big of a deal. Now there's no targeting and, you know, protecting the quarterback rules in football. But a concussion is an injury that I don't play about. If somebody has concussion, you're not getting back on that field until you're ready. Right. And there's— so I'm working with athletic trainers at the school who have their return to play protocols. There's only so much you can exert your body at certain times in order for that brain injury to heal up. And I've had pressure from, you know, the coaches say, look, this is our star, we need them back. Can he, can he play this week? No, coach, he's not ready yet. What about— is there anything you can do? Is it— no. And honestly, you kind of gotta stick to your ground. Like, no, this is bigger than high school football. This is this, this is this kid's life, you know what I mean? His future. And if I'm, I'm a big proponent of, especially my high school athletes, I don't play about my high school athletes because they're— once you get to college, you're kind of mature enough to start to understand the differences, that there's more than just this sport. But in high school, they can get so wrapped up in, you know, ball is life, like, this sport is my sport, and they stop thinking about everything else that exists outside of that sport, right? And so, no, I don't play about injuries for high school athletes. You're going to get better. You're not going to rush my timeline because this can potentially change this whole kid's life, you know what I mean? Like I said, I'm in my 30s now, and that same phenomenon that was happening to me in high school is still happening to me today. It never left, you know what I mean? So that's something I still have to manage and be able to deal with. And as young kids, they don't have necessarily the tools to be able to think about that or process that aspect. So on, it's an Essence, it's up to me as a provider to try to— I hate to use the word protect, but look out for the athlete's best interest to a certain extent, even against themselves, as you said, right?

Because, you know, obviously if they're a minor, they, they don't have the final say-so in their medical decisions, because sometimes you're even protecting them against their own parents. In some instances, it's not just the coaches, it's not just the, you know, or the whoever, it's sometimes even the parent that's like, what can we do here? It's like, you know, but usually most parents, I will say, are concerned about their child's wellbeing when it comes to something like a brain injury, or at least we would hope. I will push back on you that you think college athletes don't know that there's more than just their sport. I was like, nah, I don't know. I don't know. It is like the more you go up, the worse it gets. I don't think it gets better. I mean, they, they maybe have a little bit more perspective because they have the adult, the maturation, but I don't know, you know, that's still— the jury's still out on that. The brain takes until 25 to be fully developed, right? Is that roughly the age, or is it really the whole body?

The whole body.

Adolescence goes up to age 25. Yes, 25, right? Okay, so we're talking— so that's something important for people to know is when you're talking about making decisions, and then you add things like drugs and alcohol to the mix, right? When you have a developing brain, you already have that, and then you have repeated contact, like in a sport like football, even heading the ball in soccer, or the physicalness of hockey, right? Those are the main sports, uh, and rugby, and, you know, contact sports that you're gonna see concussions. But concussions are pretty regular, so I'm glad you brought up concussions because that's a big deal. And you know about CTE, and there is no way to diagnose, diagnose CTE currently until after death, unfortunately. Um, and you asked me a question that I want you to kind of put to me again, uh, where you talk about that anger, like when an athlete is changing, uh, you talked about their mentality and, and when they're dealing with a head injury.

Do you remember the question you asked me? Yeah, so with, um, with concussion, and one of the hard reasons that concussion is— one of the reasons concussion is so hard to treat and to manage is it's an invisible injury. You can see if somebody blows their knee out and it's swollen, or if their elbow is black and blue, or if they sprain the ankle. You can see those type of things. You can see them, you can see them walk. But concussion, the person looks normal on the outside But their whole— the way their brain works, the way they process information, their tolerance to light, their sleep patterns, all of that stuff changes. And there's a condition called post-concussive syndrome where if after 2 weeks those symptoms don't get better on their own, they just kind of linger. Time doesn't heal those things, okay? After time, if I sprain my ankle, the swelling is going to go down, the body is going to heal itself up. That's the way the body is made.. But with concussion, all those rules are completely different when you're dealing with the brain. And so one of the side effects of concussion is really mood changes, right? You're a lot less patient, you get a lot more frustrated on simple things. The frustration could come from the fact that everything is so hard for me to do, not sleeping right, I can't concentrate in class. I can't stare at my cell phone or my computer more than 10 minutes without getting a headache, or nobody understands that, you know, this is a real thing, I got headaches all the time. You know, those type of things can cause a little bit more frustration. And so that— what we were talking about is that aspect of frustration kind of tied into a, um, the mental health— I mean, well, the mental aspect. Yeah.

Mental toughness in sports and how we deal with that. Absolutely. And, uh, it reminds me of the— I was watching, uh, oh shoot, I forgot the dang name of the show, but the show where they show, uh, that Juco football, uh, situation.

I forget what it's called. Um, on Netflix?

Yeah, I think I remember what you're talking about. Yeah, but anyway, the, the— I remember one of the guys did get what could be a concussion, right? Or something, a mild concussion. I don't know. He's a lineman. So it's pretty likely that he was experiencing, you know, and I remember the coach being like, well, it's, you know, it's questionable whether he really is hurt or he just doesn't want to play. And so like you talk about that invisible injury. And I think, you know, what comes to mind besides concussions is the situation with Simone Biles and even the situation with Naomi Osaka.. And we talk about this aspect where it becomes unsafe for you to continue, whether it be from a mental health aspect. Um, and you know, like, as you know, like, I can manifest something dangerous because of my own fears and whatnot. So when you were— if you're in the room with like a Simone Biles, you're checking her out. Her knees are fine, right? There's nothing going on with her ankle. There's nothing, right? So you're like, well, she's cleared to compete, right? How does that— have you been in a situation like that where there hasn't been a physical injury, but you felt it's not safe for this person to go out?

Not necessarily have I been in that situation, but in my opinion, Simone Biles did absolutely the right thing. Yes, hands down. Absolutely right thing. And imagine how much pressure and strength that took when the eyes of the whole world are watching you and critiquing what you do, right? So the televised athlete has an entire different, um, struggle or level of complexity that other people don't have, because now you have the world weighing their input on the little bit of information that they get and forming an opinion and telling you what you should or should not do. Exactly. Based on that. But you're right, the twisties are a real thing. And in my opinion, her main validation came from other athletes who have experienced something like that. Michael Phelps spoke out. Yeah, other gymnasts saying, no, this is a real thing and it's, it's very dangerous. And if you look at the replay of her in, um, in warm-ups, you can— I think it was warm-ups, I don't think it was a competition— where she literally lost herself in the middle of the air. Yeah, and you can see where she lost it, and she was skilled enough, thankfully, to kind of rebound and catch herself before anything bad happened. But with the type of stunts they're pulling, no, a mental block and a mental injury like that can be the, the difference between I'm walking off of here or I'm getting carted out and I'm literally paralyzed for the rest of my life. Yeah, you know, now I have seen, I have seen, you know, patients, regular people, recreational athletes and stuff like that that have had a neck fracture and are— that's a life-changing injury. Yeah. Where you are literally in a wheelchair for the rest of your life. And, you know, that's all because of the pressure of having to perform. I don't think that's fair.

And I think she absolutely did the right thing. Yeah, it's a lot of pressure to perform, obviously, as we talked about, from the different aspects coming from the person themselves in addition to. So you did talk about Klay Thompson. And what happens when someone comes back from an injury, even if they take the right amount of time, but there's a hesitancy to trust yourself that, that, and, and sometimes you have to operate differently. Um, maybe you can't do the things like, you know, you talk about an Achilles heel injury when you have surgery, you have to learn the game differently because you're not going to have full range of motion. Am I correct on that? Or is that, can you get full range of motion even post-surgery?

Yeah, the range of motion is one thing that you can definitely get back. Okay. Actually sometimes you get more range of motion after that fact. That's something you have to, when we treat, we have to watch to make sure you don't get too much range of motion. Okay. But the biggest thing is the explosiveness. Okay. Kobe Bryant had the same injury and he had to change the whole way that he played the game. Gotcha. Now Klay Thompson is a different player than Kobe was. Right, he's more of a spot-up shooter and things of that nature. So Kobe had to relearn his position because he wasn't nearly as explosive, um, nearly as his ability to cut and perform angles on the court and things of that nature. Um, so yeah, you have to relearn. I mean, one phenomenal example is Kevin Durant had the same injury, the same surgery. Yeah. And when he's been on the court, you haven't been able to tell the difference. Yeah. Right, but he's a Durant for a reason. I mean, those are outliers. Um, but yeah, you definitely have to relearn things, and that confidence is— that confidence is something that just takes time. Sometimes it takes you making that first shot, um, and the more you see them go down, then the more you kind of get that confidence back. But it's not something that comes back overnight, and that's why I'm thankful that people like you exist who actually are able to address that aspect. I think the mental aspect of athletes is a hugely underserved population.

No, thank you. And I agree. Because I think, you know, when you said confidence and you said time, I think really people think confidence is something you're either born with or you don't have it. And I'm like, I always say confidence is just repetition over time. The reason why you are an amazing walker is because You have been doing it for so gosh dang long, no one can tell you you're not a good walker. Like nobody, you know, like maybe you like somebody else's walk more than yours, but either in, in general, you're like, I know how to walk, I got this, I don't need to think about it. And when you talk about having to relearn your position or the way that you play the game that you've been playing for so long, it's gonna take those times of, like you said, repeatedly hitting that shot from the spot because I think you feel not just the pressure from, am I, 'cause I know you can speak to this, but athletes often think, am I ever going to be where I was, right? Oh yeah. But when they step back on that court, it's not just them that's asking that question. It's their teammates, it's the coaches. And then you gotta add when the professional aspect, the fans. So.

And everybody on ESPN. Yep. All the analysts, Stephen A, Stephen A, if you're watching.

I'm talking about you, right? Exactly. Oh my gosh, right. And yeah, and it's easy because, you know, what sport did he play?

Did he play a sport?

Commentating? I don't know, right? He got a gold medal in comedy, right? I don't know. But it's so interesting, right, that someone— I mean, I understand it's a part of the game and people love the sensationalism of it, but I had, uh, Marvin Bagley on my podcast and and he talked about that, that messing with the livelihood of like, you know, they kind of like say things and, you know, that one clip can be played so many times and it can, you know, bring down your draft stock and stuff like that. So what is your advice, you know, to young athletes that might be listening or athletes that you might listen in general, regardless of their level for, one, let's talk about two different, groups. The I haven't been injured, what should I do? And I have been injured, what, what, what's your advice to me?

So I haven't been injured, what should I do? Injury prevention is one of the best things you can do. And people like Tom Brady, OBJ, LeBron James, who invest, they say, I'm my biggest asset, and I'm going to invest $1 million in my body in care and recovery each year to make sure that my biggest asset is in best running condition as possible. Now, for the average person, do I have a million dollars to spend on my body? Not today, right? But there are definitely things that you can do, and this is where strength and conditioning professionals come in. I mean, a good, a good sports medical team is kind of hard to find. Yeah, we have solid athletic trainers, solid sports medicine doctor, physical therapist. Preseason screening doesn't really happen as much as it does in research and literature and how much it should, but ideally what should happen is in the preseason you should be screened for your strengths and your weaknesses, and then an individualized program is developed for you to work on your weaknesses. Because injuries happen in a couple of different ways. One, if there's muscle imbalances, right? So if your hamstring is pulling— if your quad is stronger than your hamstring by too much of a ratio, then the hamstring has to work so much harder to overcome that. Boom, you get injured. So muscle imbalances are a big thing. Fatigue. So if you're not conditioned the properly way, it's overtime or triple overtime and you're tired and you're trying to go all out, that's where fatigue happens. Fatigue leads to injury. So all these different things that are preventable— there's certain mechanics that, you know, if you land— if you look at, oh my goodness, the combine of RG3 when he was at Baylor. If anyone looked at his jumps, his vertical jump or his broad jump, where you come down into a squat, if your knees come together That is a huge risk for knee injury. And what happened to RG3? Gotcha. Multiple knee injuries. And the signs were there. And I'm so baffled, like, who didn't see this? Yeah. Um, how come this wasn't addressed? Because that is something that could have possibly— if you look the way he ran, you just look at his mechanics and you're saying, somebody help him address him, because that can lead you to injury. So prevention is huge. An ounce of prevention is worth a dose of cure. We know that. If you've been injured already, know that it's a road. Know that there's— for both athletes, for athletes in general, know that there's a mental aspect of your game. Know that it needs to be addressed whether you think it doesn't or whether you don't think it exists. I think that aspect of athletes and sports and competition should be emphasized more. Yeah, a lot more. Um, and you know that things may change. You may have to, like I said, change your role on the team or change the way you go about things. The worst thing you can do is over-compare yourself to where you were before because things might change, um, and you might miss out on a different opportunity that might present itself that you could not see because you're so focused on, I got to get back to the old me. I got to get back to the old me because Father Time is undefeated. And one thing that is progressing is time, and everybody has a peak and everybody gets past their prime. So knowing where you're at in that continuum of your sports career and your sports legacy is very important. I think awareness, period, of all those different factors is hugely important. And that's— it's a lot to think about because as an athlete, you have so many things that you're trying to get better at. That falls to the wayside and nobody really thinks of that and nobody really factors that in.

First of all, amazing what you're talking about, about RG3. That's his name, right? RG3. I said that right? Okay. Yeah. I'm like, I'm surprised he's not still playing, but I was just like, yeah, I mean, he was obviously a great quarterback and he had a lot of potential. They love to use the P word, but you know, things happen. So great relation. I love that you could see to see that. And it'd be great if somebody even wrote in and said, hey guys, we need to get him, you know, working with him to train him to run differently, to, you know, uh, you know, when he does certain exercises, because he obviously has that. I love that you also addressed, like, we can't all have teams around us, but muscle imbalances, making sure you're getting proper sleep, rest, nutrition, um, I mean, you know, uh, hydration, things athletes ignore, stretching prior to exercise, warming up properly, right, cooling down, really incorporating all of those things. Because when you're earlier in your career, right, you kind of just think, I can do anything. So like, maybe I just, you know, I come off the bench, I'm ready to go, I'm like ice, right? I'm smooth as ice, or whatever you want to say. I'm sure there's a better way to put it, but I'm hot, you know. I'm sure I'm using it the wrong way. But then go, you know, as you, like you said, your body gets fatigued from repetition over time of using that muscle, using your body, there's going to be weaknesses. And if it's not addressed, at some point, I always say the body cries the tears you won't let your eyes cry. So that's when things start to happen. So it's sort of like I was, you know, I use the analogy of a car and saying there was a warning light But I, you know, it was that check engine light, right? How many people, raise your hand if you ever drove a car for a really long time with that check engine light on, like, it's working fine. It's not, it's always up. The car's telling you it needs something, but you're like, look, I don't want to go take it in because it's going to cost me, let's say, $500. And then, you know, you look at the average cost of a new car, it's a lot more than $500. So, and similarly, like you said, the cost of a surgery, the cost of like therapists and things like that. So, so much good there. And I also like when you talked about comparing yourself to the previous. Um, I, I tell my clients, you can't go back. There is no going back. Like, how do I get back to— it's like, no, there's no back. There's— this is you now, right? So all of the gifts that you had internally are still present for this journey. Now we just have to figure out how to deploy them for this new part. This next stage. I like that, you know. Um, so absolutely, um, so many good things. I want to talk about Tom Brady for a second because, um, where I, you know, I understand that the industry talks about, you know, I mean, the average lifespan of a football player is 3 to 5 years in the NFL, okay? And that the kicker having the longest career may be making it almost to 5, okay? But 3 to 5 years. Tom Brady played 18 years. Now, he's not the only person to ever play that long, but he played well into his 40s, which is very rare for a football player. Obviously, he's a quarterback. He's not taking as many hits physically, right? I mean, he took them, but he doesn't take as many as the average lineman or, you know, even, uh, wide receiver, etc. So what do you think? I mean, when people say, you know, you're done, like you're not going to play past this age. What do you say about that as a physical therapist, but also seeing— and I know that we want to say he's an outlier, he invested all this money, but the— and the question is, is there a limit to how far you can go, or is it more just like when should someone, you know, like when should someone leave the sport?

What are your thoughts about that? So You said, is there a limit to how far you can go? The human body is limitless. Okay, literally, the human body is limitless. If you don't believe me, look at The Rock's biceps when he was talking before the Super Bowl. Love that. The human body is limitless, right? So the human body, based on science and how long your cells are supposed to last, your human body is designed to live 120 years. Wow. The average lifespan is 77 for women, 72 for men. We're barely getting past half of that, so which means we're not optimizing. The keyword is optimization. We're not optimizing all the opportunities that we get. The reason why Tom Brady played so long in the NFL is because he was smart. He works smarter, not harder. If you listen to Tom Brady's interviews and stuff like that, especially the ones recently where he's kind of more reflective on his career. He will tell you he only did one thing, and he did it really well. He was a very accurate passer. Yep. He was slow as molasses. You don't see him trying to break out and run when there's a broken play. You see him either ground the ball, you know, his— he put pieces around him to make his career successful. Mm. That's how he's able to go from a winning franchise to a franchise that had a losing record the seasons before and take them to a Super Bowl and win the Super Bowl. And win— he brought pieces with him. He said, okay, I'll come, but I need this, this, this, and this, this. A lot of quarterbacks, even a quarterback position, your longevity in the, in the, in the NFL is not very long, right? It doesn't change the years. Teams roll through quarterbacks like crazy. And so one thing that Tom Brady made sure he had was a good offensive line. If I'm good at passing, I need to be in the pocket protected long enough to make an accurate throw. Tom Brady didn't take a lot of hits. Tom Brady, if you look at Tom Brady, he had his pads, he had a rib cage, rib— I mean, his pads were an extra 3 inches around him, right? So, you know, even if he did take a hit, he's able to, he's able to absorb that blow. He was very smart and very, um, tactitious with everything that he did. Tom Brady was a Floyd Mayweather. Floyd Mayweather only picks competitions he's— no, he knows he's going to win, right? And on paper, he is the greatest fighter to ever live. Now, people don't like that because he's not entertaining and he doesn't have a lot of knockouts and he doesn't take a lot of risks, right? Like Manny Pacquiao did. Well, guess what? Manny Pacquiao got knocked out 3 times. Because he's not as calculated. He's a fighter. Floyd Mayweather is going to do exactly what it takes to win, nothing more, nothing less, right? Tom Brady did exactly what he needed to do to last as long as he wanted to, and now he's at the point where he can choose. Do I want to come back? Do I want to retire? Yeah, it's probably more important—

his body's not making that decision for him.

I know, I love that position where he can make that decision for himself.

Exactly. He— yeah, and I like that when you can leave on your own terms. And I, I'm so glad you brought up Floyd because I personally have been a hater of him until I recognized— it's kind of the way I was with Kobe too. I, I came from Chicago, so of course I was a Kobe hater because I was a devotee to the Michael Jordan, uh, and so then when people would compare, I'd be like, no, I don't like this guy. But then once I got to know Kobe's mental game, it's like, you can't tell me he's not the greatest of all time when it comes to that. I won't argue basketball, like, you know, on the court stuff. I mean, you know, I just think that ultimately that's a dumb conversation because it's like everybody had their era. And would there be a Kobe if there wasn't a Michael? Would there be a, you know, a Michael if there wasn't a Magic? And, you know, Dr. J, and we could go on and on and on. So, uh, but, you know, I think Kobe's the greatest of all time on the mental game. Absolutely right. So we talk about Floyd in a sport that involves repeated blows to the head, okay? He plays defense. No, he's not an exciting boxer because he's, like you said, tactically a genius. Like, which is, how can I have the least amount of effort in a match, you know what I mean, and just get my hits in when I need to, enough to win on points and/or knock this guy out? And make 9 figures doing it and make an— exactly, an exorbitant amount of money. And Tom Brady, same thing. How do I put myself— because he was obviously drafted low just like Steph. Nobody thought they were going to be the greatest they ever were. But through that, Steph Curry's dad had the vision to be like, you need to learn the 3-point game. And he transferred basketball, transformed basketball. Tom Brady's out here doing amazing things. He's the most winningest player in the NFL. Well, Floyd Mayweather is the most winningest boxer, I think, you know, like you said. So it comes to that idea of like that mental aspect of how to say, wait, how can I put myself in the driver's seat as an athlete? And this goes back to your injuries, right? How can I put myself in the driver's seat? And I really like what Kawhi Leonard did, which is he turned the game on its head and was like, I'm going to choose where I want I want to go, but here's my conditions. I got to have my own doctor because he equally had an Achilles injury previous, and he was like— and he saw what happened to KD, um, and it was like, no, I'm gonna have my own doctor. What do you think about that? Let's talk. This will be my last question, uh, well, two questions, and then we'll go to the rapid-fire questions. Okay. What do you think about, uh, player— like, when it comes to your own physical, like, having an independent doctor versus the team doctor.

What are your thoughts about that? There's, there's two sides of that coin, but personally I think it's a phenomenal idea because if you're not an athlete, you pick who you want to go to, right? And we got to remember, athletes are people. We dehumanize athletes all the time and minimalize them to entertainment, and right, entertainment only. Athletes are people. This is their— this is bigger than a season. This is bigger than prime time on ABC. This is their life. After their sport, they still have this knee or this ankle or things that make— so they have the right to choose who's for their best interest, right? Um, as a PT, I would love for athlete to pick me up and take me everywhere that they go, right? Hint, hint, if any athletes are watching, I am good at what I do. Pick me up and take me where you go. Um, but it's it's the freedom of choice. So absolutely. Now, if you don't have those demands, then, you know, go to who's available, because obviously that team doctor is qualified and, you know, has the opportunity— I mean, has the credentials to be in that position. But if you have somebody else that knows you, that knows your body, that you trust, then by all means, you should be able to either have a second opinion or go with that person.

Yeah, well, there's a lot of school of thought that possibly KD got rushed back or like they greenlit him too early. And I know like, like, you know, there's that whole thing of like you need to be at this percentage and you can play, but should you play?

Or that's— oh yeah, his first injury. Yeah, there was, there was a lot about that. But if you see, he made the switch because after his surgery he set out that entire year. Yes, regardless. And they kept asking him— Stephen A had a sit-down with him on like a one-on-one Right. And he said multiple times, I am not playing this year. Yeah. The whole 82-game regular season plus postseason, I am not playing this year. Right. And that was when the Big Three had just came together. So there was a lot of speculation on are they going to the finals. So there was a lot of that pressure. But he made up that decision very early on that no, regardless of what happens, regardless of what looks enticing at the postseason, I'm not playing this year.

Yeah. All right. So I just thought of another question before I ask my last question. Should Kobe have walked off the court? When? When he got his Achilles— well, I'm sorry, should he have walked off on his own power? Like, I wonder about this, right? Like, I know the mental toughness of like he gets an Achilles injury and he goes and shoots the free throw and walks off the court, does not get assistance. What are your— no, not should, because should is a judgment word, but what are your thoughts about that besides it being an amazing mental feat. Yeah. As a PT, are you like, what the hell, dude? Like, you're going to hurt it more.

Or is it even— It's already torn. You're not going to tear it anymore.

It's already gone at that point.

Okay. Got it. You know, do what you want to do. If you want to try to play the third quarter, go for it.

It's not going to work. Got it. Got it.

At that point, it's already torn. Who cares?

Good job. Got it. Okay, good. I just was wondering, because I'm like, is that bad? Like to come back and even walk? But you're like, yeah, it's torn. You're getting surgery. Injury. That's what's happening. So not even possible. Okay, got it.

What is Tayshawn's mental advantage that I know? And I understand— understanding, understanding. That's really what it is. They say knowledge is power, which is good to a certain point, but knowledge is useless if you don't understand it or know how to apply it in different situations. So now that I understand things that I didn't even know back when I was an athlete. I'm like, if I could just take this that I have now and transfer it down to 19-year-old me, I'm sure I would be a phenomenal— a way more phenomenal athlete than I was now.

But the understanding stuff makes sense now, you know? Yeah, yeah. I think 19-year-old Tayshaun would just be like, why are you telling me all this? I don't believe you. So I know people always say that, but I'm like, yeah, when the teacher is ready, the When the student is ready, the teacher appears. So I always say like, yes, of course. When people say, what would you do differently? Oh, I wish I knew then what I know now. I'm like, you didn't know it because it wasn't time. That's all I'm going to say. Like, you know, all right. And then I love that you talked about relationships. I didn't really highlight that, but I think that for all the athletes listening, before we get to the rapid-fire questions, that is so important. Having someone that you relate to, as I have, been asked before, what's the difference between you and a therapist? It's like, it doesn't matter what the credentials are behind my name, how much hours of study I've done, Dr. Tayshawn has done. If we cannot relate to our patients, our clients, our athletes, we're not making progress. They don't care if we went to freaking, you know, the best schools out there. They want to know, can you help me and do you understand me? And like you said, that understanding is so powerful. So love that. Please, everybody, relate. You know, if you are an expert, if you are in that field, spend time in relations, spend time in relationship building, understanding, being able to relate to your clients. That's almost as important as the, the physical acumen or the technical acumen of your field. So important. Okay, now we're getting to the serious questions. Tayshaun, are you ready? Yeah. Okay, all right, all right, I like it, I like it. He's warmed up, he's ready. Okay, these are serious questions. All right, the first one is, what's your favorite snack right now?

This is gonna sound corny, um, these little granola bars. They're not even granola bars, they're like basically like giant Fig Newtons.

Oh yeah, I know what you're talking about. Those are good. Yeah, I do like them. I, I have definitely, uh, like, I, I know exactly what I love—

do you have a favorite flavor? Between the blueberry and raspberry, I probably banged like 4 packs of those today.

Yeah, it's like a Fig Bar, right? That's what it's called, like Fig Bar or something. Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Fig Bar's in my drawer. I'm with you. Okay. Do you have a— are you an ice cream fan?

And if so, do you have a favorite flavor? So if I do do ice cream, which I kind of go on binges, chocolate chip cookie dough, hands down.

Cookie dough is popular. Cookie dough is popular when I've done this. With young people, cookie dough, and then, um, what's the other one? Oh, uh, cookies and cream. Those are like the most popular that you hear the most. Okay, uh, if you had a superpower, which one would you want and why?

Uh, I've— I can never answer this question. Right now, I'd probably fly. I'd probably want to fly. In the past, I've wanted to read people's brains, but I'm smart enough now to know that's not what I want to know.

Or be invisible, either fly or be invisible. Yeah, the only person that I truly believe that answer from, which is read people's minds, was Michael Gervais, who's a high-performance psychologist. And I was like, okay, I can understand you want a little bit of a leg up in what you do. I said, but even me who works in the mental game, I don't want to know because I don't need to hear about the chatter on the line. My job is to help you get that chatter quieter. And I'm not sure I can hear between that. Um, uh, but my choices are teleportation, because I don't believe— I don't want any bugs in my teeth. I don't want to deal— I mean, maybe I'm moving too fast to get bugs in my teeth if I'm Superman, so maybe I don't understand the mechanics of the situation. But in general, uh, but my thought is I just want to be there, right? Unless I'm traveling first class, I don't really enjoy the plane ride all that much. So just give me, you know, boom, get me there. But the other thing is to understand, like universally understand how to communicate with any living thing, animal, vegetable, mineral, any of it. So, okay. And I don't, I know that's not really a superpower, but that's what I like.

If you were an X-Men, that would be an X-Men power.

That would be an X-Men power, right? Yeah. So I think, yeah, that's what I would want to be able to be like, oh, this animal is saying this, you know, or this tree is saying yes, you know? And I'm like, yes. Like I think that would be really cool and go to any country and understand the language. Language, like, without having to learn it. Yeah. And be able to speak it. Like, those things would be awesome. But anyway, we're not here to talk about what I want, we're here to talk about what you want. Okay, so next up is— this question is an interesting one. Oh, do you have a favorite superhero? You mentioned Superman earlier, but just checking. Do you got one? But of course, I can't believe I even—

right, yeah, well, that's me now.

Yeah, right, right. When I was a kid, I didn't know about Black Panther. No. Right, Batman, hands down. It's always Batman, I tell you. I think people— I've said this before on the podcast, so those of you that are listening are like, Brynn, you always say that. But I, I believe people pick Batman because he doesn't have any powers and they believe they can. Yes, exactly. Like, Superman's not accessible because he's an alien, so I'm gonna pick Batman. But in the Batman vs Superman movie, totally a Superman fan, just saying. Uh, that's me. All right. Uh, this question is kind of funny. Uh, I've been told it's like a first world problems, not everybody even cares about it, but so, you know, answer obviously honestly. You have toilet paper in your house, I assume? Okay. And I like it to be on the roll a certain way, so I'm in that subset of the population that does. Some do, some don't. Do you like it over the top or under the bottom? For me, under the bottom.

Under the bottom? Okay, we don't get that answer very often. Why? I'm not—

I won't get into it, but, um, yeah, yeah, okay, all right, all right, it's personal, I understand it. Probably something graphic with toilet paper, I get it. Okay, so now this is the million-dollar question after that, okay? And I don't think, you know, you're gonna be one of these people, but if I'm at your house and I put the toilet paper on the wrong way, which for me would be over the top, would be the right way. Um, so you obviously like it under the bottom. Are you changing it when you go in the bathroom? Yes. Ah, yes, my man! Okay, now here's the next million-dollar question, and this is a rarer group and breed of people. If you are at my house, do you change it at my house?

No.

Okay.

Nope.

Yeah, that's a rare group that does that.

Okay, that's your world.

That's me overstepping my back, right?

Exactly.

That's too much. Like, if I need to change it at your house, I need to—

I really need to check myself right now. At this point, might I do that?

Yes, just to play with you, just to mess with me.

Now that you know, right?

You probably would go around each room and just— that would bother me because I'd be like, how is this— why are they all right? Yeah, you— yeah, if it's a friend, if you're close enough stuff. Oh yeah, I'm messing with you. I love that. Yeah, that's true. I like that. And then last group of people, which I don't ask everybody this, but there are a subset of the population that will— are bathroom snoopers.

Are you a bathroom snooper? Bathroom snooper?

Like you go to somebody's house? Yeah, like not just open—

not—

I mean, you're in the bathroom obviously for your own, like, because you have to go to the bathroom.

Not—

you're just not like, oh, let me go into your bathroom and look in your cabinets. But some people, while they're in the bathroom, will open cabinet, look in something? No. Okay. All right. Not a bathroom snipper. Okay. I am not either. I am not either.

But I have found from polling—

that's weird. Yeah, that's strange, right? But there are. So then I always tell people, like, look at these people, because I, I do it in crowds and people love it. But I'm like, who's— where's my bathroom snippers? And there is a subset of population will say, oh yeah, me. And I'm like, these are the people you got to be careful to invite over to your house. They're changing your toilet paper roll and they're looking in your cabinets. Okay, uh, next question.

Who is your personal hero? Oh, easily two people: my dad and my brother. Nice. Why? Hands down. Um, because that is literally— well, one, the older that I get, the more I can appreciate my dad and everything he's contributed to me. Now that I'm a father, now that I'm a husband leading household, his influence on my life, hands down, was phenomenal. Um, and I had a dad growing up. He's a superhero by nature of me having a dad growing up. There you go. Um, and my brother is the influence that he's had as well. Having an older brother who always picked me when we went to the park to go play basketball, always was an example, always was, you know, a phenomenal leader. Even now, the stuff he's doing, I'm like, man, I wish I had the courage to, to go out on a limb and try that. So seeing him being able to do it, I'm like, okay, it's possible.

A little broken. Look at that. Yes, the power of older siblings. All right, I love that. Yeah, my older brother is mentally handicapped, but similarly, he is, uh, he competes in Special Olympics and he's doing things that I've never done. Downhill skiing, like, he competes in like every sport. So I'm just like, horseback riding, he's doing it all. So I am equally inspired by him, uh, because He's just not— he's fearless in that way. Like, he just does whatever. So I love that.

Uh, when it, uh, when it comes to legacy, what do you want to be remembered for? Impact. That's very easy. Um, my whole goal, even in high school, before I knew I wanted to be in healthcare, before I knew I want to be a physical therapist, people ask me what I want to do, I just said I, I want to have a lasting impact on somebody's life, even if it's just one person. I want to be that person where you've come in contact with me and something I've done or said or something had a lasting impact on your life.

And yeah, that's me. Love that. Obviously we're recording this on February 15th. Those of you that know me, you know my birthday was last Friday, and that is my favorite thing about my birthday. You know, the gifts, the occasions of going out and celebrating. But it has to be the amount of realization of the impact that you had on people, because the messages that come in and you're like, oh my gosh, like, look at the breadth of the people that I've been able to impact in life.

So it's humbling. It's the very few— well, I'm not gonna say a few times because I'm not that big and macho. The most times that I've like cried, like emotionally cried, is when I realized, yeah, the impact that I've had on people.

When you don't realize, it's like Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, you're obviously out here impacting people and helping them find new ways to live again in through what you do. And so thank you for your work because regardless of just— I mean, not regardless, uh, not just the work you do with athletes in general for people, I know it's giving them in a lot of ways a new lease on life, finding a new way to discover things inside of them that they didn't know they had. So I, I love that aspect of what you do. And I thank you for being that person, that light in the storm, because it's a— it can be a dark time for a lot of people. Yeah. Where do people find you, Tayshaun, if they want to connect with you, work with you, that type of stuff?

So that is a very good question. I am not on any social media against my older, wiser brother's advice. I should be. On social media. Um, so really, outside of that, um, email, which it may seem archaic, um, but I am here on the East Coast in Charlotte, North Carolina. Um, the practice that I work for— I mean, if you email me, I will love to connect with you. I mean, help you with any athletic injuries you have, if you know any athletes or anything like that. And I'll give my information. It's just my first name dot last name at gmail.com. So we'll go through that.

I would love to connect with people. Yes, yes. As you say, he's, he's also interested in having an athlete put him on personal retainer and, uh, help, uh, you know, obviously help them get back to a, a form or get into a form. I, I hate the term back, so get into a form of playing again, because like I said, there's no back, there's only forward.

By the way, personal athletes, because I've been on this podcast, yesterday's price It's not today's price. The price has gone up.

Okay. Just let you know. That is an entrepreneur message if I've ever heard one. Yesterday's price is not today's price. Definitely one of the top physical therapists working for a great facility there in Charlotte. And, you know, you're getting top of the line talent to get you into the form that you need to be playing the sport you love again. So for sure, absolutely recommend you. And thank you for being on the podcast. This has been such a great conversation.

Sure. Absolutely.

Thank you.