Building a Coaching Business as a Therapist with Dr. Hilary Manzik [Ep 5]

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the thriving Therapeneur podcast. I have Hillary with us today, and Hillary is a doctor. She's a therapist. Jay's a coach. She is a mom of three. She has a private practice. She has her booming coaching business. She is the perfect example of doing it all. So I am really excited to have Hillary with us today. We're going to deep dive, right, real talk and all, on what it actually takes to be running both of these businesses and give us the juicy insights into how you're doing it, what's your success, and what is your next moves in business. So, Hillary, for anyone listening, please just go ahead and introduce yourself.

All right. Hello. I am Dr. Hillary Mancic. I am a licensed psychologist and parenting coach. I'm a mom of three. And, yeah, as Carly said, I have been maintaining my private practice and then have added coaching. And I'm actually in the process of closing down my practice because my coaching business is going so well. And I think it makes even better use of my gifts in terms of how I can change the world. And it also, I can do it in a way that preserves my energy for my kids and for the other parts of my life, more so than I could when I was, you know, trading time for money as a therapist. So I am actually going to be closing down my practice, which is scary and exciting all at the same time.

Was that always a goal of yours?

Not at all. Not at all. I never actually thought that that was possible. And I'll never forget that my husband and I were laying in bed one night just talking about the future and my career, and I told him, I said, I'm so overwhelmed. I have this other business. At which point, at that point, I didn't even have an offer.

Okay.

Like, I had aspirations to build a $200 course. I was just posting on Instagram and I had a podcast trying to, like, share parenting ideas. I don't know what I was doing. I think I was just, like, trying to grow an audience, but I was overwhelmed, which is the first step, right? But, like, I didn't. I had nothing to sell this audience, and I was just burning myself out. Not only that, but I had been a therapist focused on parenting and perinatal mental health and child therapy when the pandemic hit. And I was also. I got pregnant during the pandemic with my third child and doing perinatal work during the pandemic while being pregnant. And the vicarious trauma that I experienced as a result of, you know, working with people who had everything you can think of go wrong during pregnancy. That was really hard. And I hadn't had that specialty when I had my other kids, so that was really tough. And then, of course, the pandemic, so I was already burned out from that. And then I was trying to run this other business that was bringing no income on the side. And I remember saying to my husband, I was like, gosh, like, I don't know what to do. And he was like, well, why don't you just pick one? And I was like, I can't pick one. Like, I have to be a therapist. That's. I will always be a therapist. And he was like, well, what if you didn't have to be? And I was like, but I do. My clients depend on me. I mean, I had clients I had been seeing for years, and the thought of closing down my practice or even taking a break from seeing clients was, like, unthinkable. And here I am. So, no, I never thought that was possible. And it's just funny because my husband and I joke now. He's like, you needed to hear it from, like, 10 other people after you heard it from me for it to become real. But I really did. I had to really do some mindset work and really start to shift how I was, what I was believing about it, what I was making it mean in order to make it feel good for me to close it down. I mean, I'm actually excited. Like, it's scary because I want to preserve that part of my professional identity, but other than that, it's just exciting.

So, yeah, both. You're still a therapist running your coaching business. We don't lose that identity. I always say it's a bonus identity that we get to gain as a coach. Not all coaches can be therapists. Most of them can't. But us therapists can be both therapists and coaches. Take us back a little bit on this journey of what this was like for you from the moment maybe you even, like, heard about coaching to deciding you were going to be a coach or whatever you thought you were going to be when you were just building this audience and when you first made your first sale from your program to where you are today. Like, how long did this take you? What was this. What was this journey like for you?

Well, if we don't count the time where I was just, like, screaming into the void, trying to build an audience without a product, it's been nine months. It's been nine months. And where I am now, spoiler alert. I AM My past two months have been 28k months. And so, and this is like consistent, unreal. Like this is wilder than my wildest dreams. I remember being thinking that like 5,000amonth in income from this business would be wild. And now here I am at like almost 30k and it's, it still feels like a dream, but like the best kind of dream. Do you know what I mean? And I've also worked really hard to get here. So it's, I think I've really had to up level my belief system as I've grown so as to sustain my success. Because if I wasn't doing that mindset work on the side, guaranteed I would have. And I did. As I grew, I had sort of ebbs and flows, right? But so yeah, I think I said before I had this dream of creating this $200 course and I was offering coaching as these one off consultations. So basically parents could buy an hour of my time in my private practice. And this is before I understood that I really needed to have it separate. But it was just a service I offered in my private practice. And it was, we would leave these sessions, both the parents and I, like fired up. We were so excited. We were like, everyone was ready to go implement the things we talked about and nothing would change. And the reason for that is because changing how you're showing up to parenting is a big deal, as it turns out. And there needs to be a container and support and some baseline knowledge that people are taking in versus me just reacting to what they're bringing in in this hour and hoping we can make some change. So I, I thought that I could do that in a, like I said, a $200 course. And now I realize there's just no way that these parenting courses, while they're helpful in some ways, they're a band aid for a family who's really struggling. Because the clients who come to me, they've done that, they've taken their kid to therapy, they've listen to my podcast, which I'm very proud of, my podcast, but they've listened to every episode. None of that is enough. When you're really struggling and you're really trying to change the way that you're relating to your child, because you're not just changing the moment to moment interactions with your child. You're changing like your entire life's worth of programming around what it means to be in relationship, you know, parent to child. You're unlearning so much about parenting that you learned from being parented. It's really deep work. And so it really has to take place in a more supportive container. So I remember when I first heard of high ticket coaching, that was when a light bulb went off for me. Like, I had heard of high ticket coaching, but when I heard of high ticket group coaching, which is what you teach, that was when the light bulb really went off and I was like, oh, that's how I could make this work. That's how I could do this. Because it wasn't just that I was trying to figure out how to actually impact these families, but I was also trying to figure out, like, if I'm going to give that much to people, I need to be earning the money that makes it worth it. And I just couldn't figure out how a $200 course was ever going to take me where I wanted to go. And I remember you posted something about low ticket comes later, and I was like, yes, okay, that makes sense. So I started to really get into this idea of high ticket coaching, and I invested simultaneously. I mean, it was a couple weeks apart, but I invested in a program that taught me how to run ads and build a high ticket coaching program around that. And then I invested in your program because I wanted to have the organic aspect as well. And you being a therapist, I just knew that you would be able to help me really dot my eyes and cross my T's and also make the professional identity shift to adding this identity, like you said, the bonus identity of being a coach. Because. And I mentioned this, um, in the video interview we did. But I, like, I had just gotten kicked out of a Facebook group, a really big Facebook group for therapists. Because I mentioned coaching, there's such a stigma. And so I was really struggling with that. I had this, like, guilt that I was working through around becoming a coach. And so I knew that I needed you to guide me through that mindset shift too. Not just from the business perspective, but actually being a coach and feeling good about that.

So what were some of those limiting beliefs that you had and how did you overcome them besides, you know, having a mentor who has walked this walk? But do you remember what some of those were specifically?

Yeah, I mean, when I was kicked out of that Facebook group, I've never been kicked out of a Facebook group before. So that was like a really big, you know, that whole people pleasing, good girl stuff. Like, it brought up all of that for me. And I was just like, oh, my goodness, I'm somehow bad. Like, all of my colleagues are good and they're doing. They're Being good little therapists, and I'm over here being a rebel. Like, I mean, I really felt like that sounds so silly now, but, like, gosh, I really was bogged down by this and I shed a lot of tears over this. And I had conversations with some of my colleagues who, by the way, are now coming to me and saying, can we have a conversation about coaching? I really want to do what you do. But at the time they literally. Things that were said to me, you're never going to be able to make this work. People are never going to pay this money. You're only going to be able to help super privileged white families, which has not been the case. You're. You know what? Like, so many things that were said to me that basically were coming from their limiting beliefs. And I was just starting to uplevel out of that place, but I really wrestled with that. Those things, I took them to heart and it was really challenging to. To hold all of that. So I had to really dismantle this idea that, like, as a psychologist, I had to practice a certain way. My board literally was like, don't be a coach. Just don't do it right. Which is so silly. When you think about therapists make. You always say, therapists make the best coaches. And I really believe that, like, it can't go the other way around. Because if you're not trained in how to help someone through trauma, like, you probably shouldn't help someone through trauma. But our training makes us the perfect coaches. And especially to do parenting work. I feel like everything I've done professionally, from my private practice to working in residential treatment centers, to working in therapeutic schools, and personally, you know, being a mom to sensitive kids, I feel like everything in my life has just led me to this point. It's exactly what I'm meant to do. This is how I'm meant to, you know, it's my dharma. Right. It's what I'm meant to do with life. And so I feel so convicted in that now. But I really had to work through this idea that therapists shouldn't coach and that coaching is bad and that coaching is somehow like high ticket coaching. Oh, my gosh. The money beliefs I have had to unpack.

And I'm slimy, sleazy life fan of a person. Yes.

Yep. That if you have money, that you're bad and money doesn't grow on trees and you have to, like, kill yourself working 24 hours a day if you want to make money. And, like, none of that is true. And so it's been really, really. It's been really cool to see how I've grown as a person in the past nine months because I've been doing the mindset work like I lift weights. It's just something I do consistently. Because if you don't, you can backslide into what you know. Right, Your knee jerk reaction. So, yeah, that has been such an integral part of this process. I think as a business owner, you've got to make peace with the idea that who you are in your business is going to be who you are in all the areas of your life and like your shadow self. And you've got to really work with that part of yourself and embrace the struggle or you will never, like, things are going to show up in your business that are showing up in your life. You can't just, like, pretend that that doesn't.

It's a mirror.

It's a mirror.

It's a mirror. You're exactly right. So let's talk about the business structure for a second, the marketing side of things. Because now you're at the point where you are going to shut down your private practice, but prior to that, you're a mom of three highly sensitive kids. You're running a private practice, you're running your coaching business. Talk about the business model systems that you have in place. How are you doing it all?

I am figuring that out as I go. And there has been, I mean, I'm telling you, like when I was writing my course, like the recorded course portion of my program. Well, let me, let me back up because let me tell you what the structure of my program is. So I have a recorded course and that, that drips over eight weeks. And that is essentially everything that I think a parent of a highly sensitive child who's struggling. And that's, that's my mission, right? I help parents of highly sensitive, emotionally intense, reactive kids end the constant meltdowns and reclaim peace in their homes. And so I created a recorded portion that was everything I feel like they need to know. And honestly, that by itself could take them to where they want to go. Except that every kid is different, every family is different, every dynamic is different. And so I knew that people were going to have questions. And so I have a weekly call. It's a weekly Q and A call. And if you're listening to this and you love group work, like, oh my gosh, it is. I leave those weekly calls on fire with just passion for what I do. These calls are like the best part of my week. I love the energy, literally so I've got a golden retriever puppy. She's a year old and she got out of the house because my kid didn't shut the gate. I'm like on this call coaching my people and I see my puppy out in the road and I'm like, sorry, guys, I gotta go get my dog. I come back and one member is coaching the other. Like they didn't miss a beat. They just. That's the community that I've created and that they have created and we've co created. Right? So that's been really, really cool because I do love group work and it is such a cool way to bring people together and for them to hear, oh my goodness, here's this thought that I feel like I can't say out loud things like, I don't actually want to be around my kid right now, but other people are like, I feel that too. So that's really, really cool. One thing that I do on those calls, I make everybody celebrate, even if the win is tiny, even if we're reframing a struggle as a win. Because if you don't do that, if you only wait until everything is perfect to celebrate, things will never be perfect. So you have to. And this is true in building a business too. You've got to celebrate along the way. And then on top of that, they have voxer access to me. I say 24 7, but I have boundaries around when I respond. So it's always by the next business day. That's the part that as I scale this thing, I'm going to have to figure out, I'm going to have to hire people and train people that I really trust. And I have a couple people waiting in the wings because we're getting to that point where I can't handle the volume. So that's really where I'm headed, is scaling this. But yeah, so that's the structure. And then they have coaching calls with me along the way. So we do an onboarding call where people get to set a few goals and I give them a few like immediate action items, do these things and start getting wins immediately. And that's the crazy thing. Within this is an eight week program and by week one or two, people are having massive wins. Like they're seeing meltdowns gone or significantly reduced, you know, because meltdowns are developmentally appropriate for really young kids. But people with older kids sometimes are seeing them completely gone by week two. It's unreal. It's better than I ever could have thought. So, yeah, so I was running this program. And then I had a small group of clients that I was still seeing as I was, as I was working on building this. And then my mom had a hip replacement which kind of forced me to take a break from seeing clients because she had been my childcare. And so that's where I really leaned into building this. And I actually created the program. And I'll tell you, I was burned out as a therapist writing this program that was like a sprint. Do you know what I mean? Like every night there were late nights. It was because I can't record a course when my kids are awake and being rambunctious. So I had to do that at night and I don't work well at night. I need my sleep. So it was very, that was tough for that few month period. But now I have, it's leveraged.

It's leveraged work. Once it's done, it's done.

I mean, once it's done.

Minor twinks here and there.

Yeah. And I really, I thought I would tweak it and I really haven't. I'm sure that I will things but like I haven't needed to because people continue to get really amazing results. So yeah, I mean it's, it was a push, but now I have this asset in my business that I'm going to have forever and I can just continue to polish and make it better. So that's really, really cool. And yeah, I always thought that I would just like build my practice back up on the side, but I don't need to. And I actually think that the way that I'm helping families, it's almost feel like I'm getting to the root cause of some of the things my clients were struggling with over and over. Like coming in and saying, you know, why am I such a people pleaser that I can't set a boundary with my mother in law around seeing the baby? Right. For my perinatal clients, why, why do I struggle? Why am I getting so triggered by my daughter's emotions? So I'm going to the source and helping parents build that relationship with their kids and heal that generational trauma through parenting their child differently. And I, I have built in some really curated reflection exercises to help people take this to the next level. But I see the transformation so quickly and I just feel like it's an even more powerful modality to do this work.

Yeah. And for anyone who's listening, this is the business model that I use in my business. This is what the top 1% of coaches are using. It's this hybrid model, just like you said, it's recorded course, it's group coaching because you're tapping into the one to many model where you're not trading dollars for hours. You and it's like osmosis learning where they're all learning from each other, they're future pacing each other, they're bringing each other back to the basics because everybody's at different spots. And then you have that community sport as well.

Yep.

This trio of this hybrid model, it's.

Crazy too, because I think I also had to unpack the limiting belief that like one on one coaching should cost more because it's more valuable. I actually don't believe that anymore because I was doing one on one coaching in my private therapy practice. And what I can tell you is, and actually I had a client, my first client after my cohort, my beta cohort graduated, I had one client for like a month. So it was just like one on one coaching. When we got more clients that came in as I enrolled more people, her experience and she said that she's like, it was amazing having access just to you. But man, once we started having people come in, that just really took my experience to the next level because I really felt like I wasn't alone anymore. So I actually don't think individual coaching is better. And you know, I've had people say, well, I'd rather just meet with you for eight sessions. And you know, these are some of the objections that people will give when they don't really understand what I do yet. And I don't have a way of explaining if we don't have a call yet. Right. If they're just saying, well, is it group coaching? Okay, I don't want to do group coaching. I cannot say enough how much more powerful it is for me to work with people in this capacity than it was for me to see people one off in my office. You know, and the fact that they've got access to me, they can literally pick up voxer and message me after a meltdown just happened and say, okay, I tried that thing that we talked about. Here's what worked and then here's what didn't. And I think one of my superpowers is to be able to say, here's the mindset shift you still need or here's the way we can tweak that. And this is how people are getting these wins. They're not just waiting for the next session we have. They're able to really, even if it's a weekend, they can put it there for me to have when I get back on Monday.

Yeah, it's incredible. And you're able to. You said at the beginning, and I got chills when you said this. Like, this is like my dharma. Like, this is what you are meant to do. You're impacting lives worldwide, not just only within your state, that you're licensed and you're getting parents, these incredible results. You're making great money. You don't have to sacrifice the life that you love. This is the ultimate win win, in my opinion.

It really is, because I'm impacting these families in ways that I couldn't in the model that, you know, therapy is wonderful, but it had its limitations for the way that I could help people and the people I could help. Like you just said, like, I'm licensed in North Carolina and Virginia, but I've had people in my program on the west coast, in Austria, in New Zealand, in Australia. It's amazing to be able to work with people no matter where they are, and they're getting phenomenal results. And it is. That's the part that is just so cool to me. And so, yeah, I mean, I really feel like this is the ultimate win win, because I feel like I am getting what I need to be able to care for myself in the way that I need to care for myself. Like, I'm gonna buy a sauna for my bedroom. Like, it's, you know, like, that's always been out of reach. And now I can actually have a sauna that I can go sit in. Not, like, build, you know, like one of the portable ones, but you know what I mean? I'm gonna be able to care for myself on a deeper level because I've got the time, freedom to do that. And don't get me wrong, like, it's a lot of work to run a business. It's just me, my podcast editor, and my VA right now. So it's a lot of work, but I still feel like it's so much of it is inspired action work. Like, I'm creating content. I'm working with clients in a way that lights me up. Like, it doesn't drain me. And that is. That's a big difference. I often felt drained as a therapist, even though I loved the work and I believe in the work, but I often felt drained.

Right. Yeah. Let's talk about your team for a second. And overhead. So you're just kind of in the growth slash scaling phase, and so you do have a smaller team. You're already thinking about hiring client fulfillment Coaches, client success coaches. And so your overhead will naturally grow. But do you have any idea of like what your profit margins are right now? Roughly what or your overhead are you paying for? Tons of subscriptions?

It's just the three of you, $200 a month. And this is something you teach, which I think is so helpful because if you're teaching high ticket coaching and you're not helping people have the systems to support it, people are going to run into scaling issues. So I love that you teach the CRM, but yeah, $200 a month replaces your email list, your website hosting, your course hosting, your funnels, your client management, which I've been doing on an Excel spreadsheet until this point. I mean it was in my head for a while. How sad is that? But like, because I was the therapist who always had simple practice when I had my private practice, like I started, I paid for simple practice before I had my first client because I believe in systems, but I didn't know what that was for coaching. And you really showed me what it was and how it could be. So that's, I mean, $200 a month. And then I do run Facebook ads, but I'm spending $60 a day on ads. So what is that, like 2000 and change? I, my profit margins have always been above and beyond my ad spend. Now I am the girl who invests in myself to a fault. So I do have some, you know, business expenses that I paid for in terms of like trainings and back end masterminds and things that, you know, I'm still paying some of that off. Like I'm going to be honest about that because I think we want to be transparent and for people who are building the business, don't be afraid. If you've got decent credit, apply for the no interest credit card. That's how I did all of this. Like, I did not have, you know, $10,000 sitting around or six. Like I didn't have that lying around. I was basically living, you know, paycheck to paycheck with my therapy practice, paying the bills for that and then keeping up my license. I, you know, I think I was bringing in part time, but like bringing in like $5,000 a month on a good month. And that was never making a meaningful impact in our bigger financial picture because a lot of it was going back into the business. And so I, when I decided to do this high ticket coaching thing, I was like, I don't have money to invest, but I know I need to. Like, I know that I need the Guidance of people who have been there. And I don't know how I knew that, but I just knew. I just knew that I needed mentorship. And I did that when I built my private practice too. I didn't just like build a private practice. I did it right from the beginning because I paid for business school. Bootcamp by Miranda and Kelly. If you've heard of that, that was so like, that's how I do things because I see, see the value in it. But that means like, if you're listening to this, you might need to go apply for a no interest credit card and carry a little bit of debt, which like, can be scary. I really get that. But I haven't paid interest on any of it and it's almost gone at this point. And so yeah, I mean the profit margins at this point are huge. You take home almost all of it because it's an online business. You don't have a storefront, you don't have an office. I mean, I have my home office, but. And then working from home, I walk my kids to school every morning. My husband works from home too, so we can go out and have lunch. Sometimes I'm there when my kids get home from school. I pick my daughter up from her two morning a week preschool and take her to the park some days take my kids to the pool. I am able to be the present mom that I want to be. And I'm not going to lie, there's times I'm working on something that I'm really passionate about or I'm recording podcast episodes on the weekends. It's not a perfect work life balance, but my kids are just like playing independently while I do that. And it works, you know, so. And the dreams I have for this business, the things that I really, really want for my own life, I want to retire my husband because he has been our backbone from day one. I never intended to be a stay at home mom, but I was working in a really toxic school for emotionally at risk kids when I got pregnant. And like toxic, toxic run by a narcissist. Had nightmares when I left kind of situation. So I knew. Plus the commute, it was northern Virginia and I knew couldn't do that with a baby. So I never intended to stay home. But that's just kind of how it worked out. I stayed home for four years and my husband has carried us like his income has given me the freedom and I don't for one second like look at that privilege as anything other than what it is. It is absolutely a privilege. And I am super grateful, but his steady income has allowed me to take these risks. And so he's had that weight of the world on his shoulders the entire time. We've had kids that, like, if he gets fired or loses his job or if he hates his job, oh, well, like he's paying the bills. Right. And so that's been something that I really want to give back to him. I'd love to retire him and, you know, then he can do his thing. He wants to start a business, so to give him that freedom. And I want to buy my family a lake house in the town I grew up in. And that is something that, like, I want to do that sooner than later because I want my kids to have a place when they come home on the weekends from college. And of course, now, like, that we can go as a family. My kids are in year round schools. Like, we have three week breaks that my husband and I work from home. We could go to the lake and stay there for three weeks. So that's our. Those are our big dreams. And those are the things that keep me going when it gets hard. I mean, obviously the work I'm doing keeps me going. That goes without saying, because like I said, this is truly my dharma. But these other things would never be possible if I wasn't earning the income to match the impact that I'm making.

Right. You have a burning mission to help these parents. And you have a beautiful vision for your life and your family. And this is all happening for you like, it's already happening. I'm so excited and so proud for you. Feel like I could just listen to you all day and your stories and you're so inspiring. So I feel like everyone who listened to this episode is going to walk away and take some sort of action step. Can you leave somebody listening with a gold nugget of advice? Therapist to coach. You know these worlds deeply. You know therapy, you know coaching, you know business.

Yes.

And then I want you to tell everyone where they can find you as well, so they can follow you for inspiration and parenting.

Yeah, absolutely. So the first thing I would say is if you have a dream of adding coaching, if you have a dream of even if you didn't know that coaching was the vehicle, but you had a dream of leveraging your time and protecting yourself from burnout and making real impact income and freedom in having that be what your business gives you, then do it. And remember that you have never failed unless you give up. You will not fail if you don't quit. And so There have been times I've wanted to quit. There have been times. There have been low moments. You're going to have that with anything. And this business is my fourth child. And you're going to have that in parenting, and you're going to have that with your business. But as long as you don't quit, you will not fail. Okay? So keep going. If you have not invested in yourself, do that. You would be crazy not to invest in Carly's program. She will give you everything you need, like, legit, step by step, to take you from. I have no idea what I even would offer as a coach to. Oh, my gosh, I have a thriving coaching practice. Like, you would be crazy not to go and apply for a credit card if you don't have the money or take something from your private practice. If you're running a private practice and reinvest it in this business, however, you've got to do it. But, like, just do it. Don't try to do it by yourself, because I think that's what takes people. It takes years and years, and you don't see the fruits of your labor. And then you quit because you think, oh, this isn't working. And that's so far from the truth. So believe in yourself and remember that you've got to do the mindset work to keep up with your progress. Right? Like, at every level of income that you never thought you'd bring in, do the mindset work to remember that you deserve this, you've got this. And that way you can actually consistently hit these numbers. So that's what I would say. You can find me@raisedresilient.com. that's my website, and my podcast is raised resilient with Dr. Hillary. And so that's. I keep my episodes, like 10 to 15 minutes. So you can leave every episode with a nugget of something you can try with your kids that is actionable and practical and real. And so I do that. And then I also. If you're really struggling, I do have my program. And in as little as eight weeks, your entire life could be different. We can end the meltdowns and you can lay your head on the pillow at night and, like, know that you're doing right by your kid. These are changes I've made in my own parenting, too. So I think, you know, I. I bring a very. I'm in the trenches with you kind of vibe. And so it's a really fun.

And I think your kids are getting home as we speak. Did I not just hear, like, a little like.

Yeah, they are. My husband kept not a little bit longer today, but he walks them home from school, and I think they may have hit the gas station on the way home for a treat, so I love it. Yeah.

Well, thank you so much, Hillary. This was so wonderful. Everyone go follow Hillary for parenting tips and inspiration. And until next time, take care.