How Richmond Dinh Turned His Last $50K Into an 8-Figure Coaching Empire

I literally, like, sold my company, sold my house, moved to a new city, started over and went into coaching.

Why change at 29? Why change at 39? Why change at 49? Wait until you're 50 to change. Like, you know, people wait until the turn of the decade to change. That was me, which in hindsight sounds ridiculous. I learned that the best trade that you can ever give someone that has more material success than you is, is your energy, Your willingness, your hunger, your curiosity. Like that energy that you can give. Your gratitude, that infectious energy that you can give someone who's further ahead than you.

Welcome to Rise, Shine and Redefine, the podcast where entrepreneurship meets purpose. I'm Karen Meininger, and I'll help you create an authentic and powerful business. Let's dive in.

Hello. Hello.

Welcome to the show. This is Rise, Shine, and Redefine, and I'm your host, Karen Meininger. And we're just diving right in with Richmond Dim right here. I am so excited to have you. How are you today? You are an optometrist turned an eight figure business coach. What? I am so excited to learn more about that and all of your magic in the world because I read your story. I have your book right here, Tiny Challenge, and I'm just so excited about you to share everything and all the things. So, yeah, I want to hear you. So you're an optometrist. I read you did that for 10 years and you went into coaching. Tell me, tell me, tell me all the goods about that.

Well, nice to meet you, Karen. I'm firstly very humbled that you read my whole book. Even some of my closest friends haven't read my whole book. So thank you for that. Really means a lot. Well, the purpose of life is to find your purpose and then leave that for the rest of your life like that. That is ultimately the purpose of life. And so optometry was something that was not my passion. It was my parents. And I think many people watching this are probably living someone else's dream. And I was doing that for 10 years, and not that that was a bad thing because you have to probably go through a stage where you need to listen to your elders and you need to listen to your parents and only to realize, okay, well, this is what I want to do now. And so I did that for 10 years, wasn't passionate about it. I honestly don't know who is. You know, if. If you're watching this and you're an optometrist or no offense, but I. I don't know any optometrist that love what they do, that's maybe only just one. And so I changed careers into coaching because that's what really drove me. That's what inspired me. And I did not have to wake up in the morning to actually feel like I'm working.

It's so interesting because I have a. I was not an optometrist, but I sold fabric for 22 years. And I also, it was an eight figure business. It was my family business. We. And, and it was like every day I just woke up so unfulfilled. And so I just, I relate to your story so much of continuously doing the thing because, yep, it's making this money. Like on the outside everything looks, but then on the inside you just feel like a hot freaking mess. And you're like, what am I doing? What you were talking about before, with purpose and the fulfillment of what we're doing in our life. And it was really interesting because I ran this company with my brother and one day I just would talk about what I want to be doing and he's like, do you want to have this conversation 10 years from now? And I'm like, sure don't. So I literally like sold my company, sold my house, moved to a new city, started over and went into coaching. So I just, I relate to your story so much in the fulfillment piece and like knowing what that magic is in your, in the world. So what, so what was it? What was the turning point for you when you're like, I'm not going to do optometry anymore?

Yeah, this is a great question. So multiple things had to happen. Usually people just don't, People just don't change when only one small thing happened. Like, for example, number one, I had to do it for 10 years in my mind. I wanted to get to 10 years and then change careers. So, you know, if you're not happy with life, why change at 29? Why change at 39? Why change at 49? Wait until you're 50 to change. Like, you know, people wait until the turn of the decade to change. That was me, which in hindsight sounds ridiculous. Like, why would you wait on that specific milestone? So that was, number one. I was the type of guy that would not change at 29, I have to change at 30, or would not change at 30, and I have to change at 40. I was the type of guy that only start things on a Monday. I was the type of guy that only started things on January 1st. And so, you know what I mean?

Type A, huh?

Why start a new go on. December 31st. That just. That is just lame. Like, you know, but that was. That was me. And then the. The next thing that happened at the same time was that I had lost a significant. A lot of money in the property market. I just invested really poorly due to not having the right people around me and having wrong advice. And I lost over a million dollars in the property market, and that was going to send me bankrupt. And so I was literally going down the path of bankruptcy, and I was seeking solving insolvency practitioners to see what my options were. And I had $50,000 cash left. And if I was going to declare bankrupt, then it would mean that I'd have to spend that $50,000 on something because they're just going to take it. And so I'm about to get bankrupt. I've got $50,000. I have to spend it. What do you spend your last $50,000 on? You know, that's going through my mind.

Because I can't buy $50,000. Question.

Yeah, $50,000 question. So you can't buy a car, because if you buy a car, they just sell it and repossess it when you go bankrupt. I couldn't buy. Can't buy a watch, because then they'll just sell the watch and repossess it. Like, they'll repossess everything. And so I. And, you know, I didn't go gambling or drinking or partying or anything like that, because that wasn't really me. So I decided to spend the last $50,000 on all on personal development. So I went to a Tony Robbins event. I spent $1,000 there, and then he had an upsell, and then I spent the $15,000 on the upsell. And then at that upsell, he had this other upsell, which is 10,000. And then I met my very first coach, Scott Harris, who had this $25,000 mastermind to teach you how to become a life coach. I'm like, okay, well, that's my $50,000. And then I spent it all on them, and then I was about to go bankrupt. But after doing that for a year, I learned that I had options because I thought going bankrupt was my only option, only to realize that I was stuck in my mind and not resourceful enough to get out. And so I built the confidence and the belief and also the tactics from being around the right people to actually fight my way out. And so at that point, I didn't declare bankruptcy, and I decided to become a life coach, because I learned that the only reason why being in debt was a problem because I had to put down $1,000 every single week in cash flow just to service that Deb. And. And I couldn't manage that. And the only reason why I couldn't manage a thousand dollars a week was because I was only earning $2,000 a week. And so the solution to that is earn more money. But I couldn't do it as an optometrist because optometry is capped. But I could do it as an entrepreneur. And so I became an entrepreneur. I came in business and I started my own life coaching company and, you know, made $500,000 in the first year and then a million dollars the next, and just kept on going from there. And now the rest is history. And.

Okay, okay, okay, let. Let's back up. So you take a light. You take.

You.

You do Tony Robbins events. You have Scott Harris as your coach. You learn life coaching. Okay? So for somebody who's starting out. Okay. And I know, I know your book talks about this, but that's really impressive to go from zero to 500,000 or. 500. Yeah, 500,000 in a year. It has, like, yes, there's strategy, but there has to also be a mindset piece about it. Right.

This is.

This is a transformational work that I do is like getting out of your own way so that you actually step into the strategy with. With the clear confidence. What did you. What did you have to do to really go from, well, 0 to 100 to 200? Like, what? And I know it wasn't the tiny challenge at that time. What, what, that really. Where you got that momentum to keep building this container or this coaching career for you.

Yeah. Look, this will be, in my opinion, the best advice that I can give anyone to transform their life. And you can do hours of. Hours of incantations of affirmations, of vision boards, of all these things. And do they work? 100%. They're very useful. They work. But the best way, and you can do a lot of things, therapy or identity shifts, that kind of stuff. The best way to change your life is just to simply change your peer group. That is the number one force that I call the eighth wonder that dictates your beliefs, your identity, your habits, everything about you is just changing your peer group. So that was step number one for me, is changing my peer group to a peer group that understood my dreams, that was playing at a higher level than me, but more importantly, that would allow me to fail and pick me up when I was really going through a hard time. And so Peer group is the ultra most important thing that you can ever do to change your life.

I love it because it's right. You are the five people you hang around with the most. Right. So how do you, how do you change your peer group? Like, what are some tips or tricks to really up level the people that you're around?

Yeah. Cool. So I used to be, I used to have the mentality of, okay, I wanted to be like the number one in my top five. And for most of my life, I was, I was the most successful, I had the most properties, I was the most popular. Like, every time, you know, someone organize a social event, it's like, make sure Richmond's invited. Like, I was that guy. Only to realize that that was not really serving me to try to strive to be number one in my top five. I had to be number five in my top five and. Because they're going to stretch you to grow. But the downside to being number five is you're going to feel extremely insecure because. Yeah.

And you're like, oh, I, I know this well. Yes, yes.

And so you constantly battling yourself of asking yourself, okay, what value do I even have to bring to this top five? Because they're way more successful than me. Do I even belong here? Are they using me for something? Like, I had so many dialogues going on, but I learned that the best trade that you can ever give someone that has more material success than you is your energy, your willingness, your hunger, your curiosity. Like that energy that you can give your gratitude, that infectious energy that you can give someone who's further ahead than you. When I say further ahead, I mean making more money, but maybe not further ahead in other areas. That that's, that's what people love. And so, like, personally, for me, I have friends that are not as successful with me, but they're hungrier, they're driven, they're curious, they're fun, they think deeply about life. And I love spending time with them. And that's the value you can give, which is intangible and it's free.

Yeah. So how would, how would somebody. And I have some, some input on this too, but how can somebody put themselves around higher level people? What is. Because sometimes it costs. Right. $25,000. Masterminds isn't for everybody.

Right.

Like, I mean, for me, yes, but for everybody. Right. It's scary to invest and people have the mindset of I'm not paying for my friends and I don't have $25,000 to upgrade my peer group. So what are, how can people get in rooms with these higher level people and then become. And help them become their new peer groups without this, like, high level investment?

Yeah, I. This is, this is, this is a great question. So. And it's easier to do this now than ever before because you're only, you know, back then, I don't know, 10 years ago, you know how they used to say that saying you're seven connections away, or like from, from everyone or whatever that saying is. Now you're one connection away because of social media. Like, you can totally. You could probably DM Elon Musk if you want to. It won't. It won't. It'll go to his outbox. But you can DM him, right?

There's still a way in.

There's still a way, like you can just Twitter him and hopefully he might say it, but you are literally one connection away now. So it's easier to network now than ever before. And I'm going to share with you some really tactical advice on how to do this, because I was touring with Grant Cardone years ago on, on a tour that he was doing in Australia, and I got to go backstage with him, and I had the opportunity to only ask him one question. Like, only one question. And so I'm like, why do you ask Grant Cardone one question? So the whole tour, Grant Cardone kept on talking about what we're talking about. Like, you got to up level your peer group, and the only way to do that is to pay to play. To pay to play, to pay to play. And he kept on talking about his $5,000 program, his $25,000 program, his $100,000 program, and the way to get access is to pay to play. And, and I get that, and that makes sense. But the question. So the question I asked Grant, I said, hey, Grant, I understand pain to play. I've done it since I started coaching. My friends are from people that I've been in $25,000 masterminds. That's my peer group now. But Grant, there has to be a way where you don't have to pay to play and you can network up the social ladder without having to pay to play. How do you do that? And it's like, that's a great question, Richmond. You know what he said? This is literally. And there was, there was a few other people in the room, too, and they're like, whoa. They're like, jaws drop. Like, that's a good question. And he said, everybody, everybody, whether you're Bill Gates, Musk, whoever you are, Everybody on the planet, everybody needs something. They need something. Your job is to find out what they need and just go get it and go give it to them and do it graciously and willingly and just keep on doing it. And that's how you get their attention. And so that's step number one. And so how I applied this on a social media context was there was this. There was this Facebook group that had about four coaches that had about 50,000 members. And this was about five years ago when, you know, 50,000 members in a Facebook group is huge. And so this guy that ran it was a pretty big deal in the coaching space. And I thought it would be so good to have in my circle and connect with him. I didn't know how to sort of. I went into the Facebook group, and I saw that he was like, the moderator or the admin or the creator of the group, and he was running his group really, really poorly, and he wasn't optimizing it for lead generation. And I knew. I just knew he probably wasn't making as much money as he could be making, and so I just sent him a DM and I said, I'll just. I want to make up a name. Mark. Hey, Mark. Like, I noticed. Hey, you're in your group. I love your group. I love how you let us promote all that. But I noticed also, you could do this one better if you just did this one thing. Trust me, you get double the engage. And he did it, and it worked and said, awesome, try this other thing too. And if you do it this way and post this way, you're gonna get way more engagement. And here's a script. Transition that into an actual phone call so you can make more sales. And he started implementing that, and he's like, wow, you're. You're amazing. You're like, how do you know this stuff is what I do? This is what I did from the beginning, but my group's only 2,000 people, right? So. And. And he started implementing it, and his group started getting more engagement, and it's like, can you just manage my group for me? I'm like, okay, sure. And he made me the moderator of that group, and now we're friends. And now I'm in his circle, and now, you know, so I just found a way to add value to him, and that was it. Like, I figured. And I was just guessing whether it was a pain point of his or not, but I'm guessing. I mean, he's got a Facebook. 50,000 people wouldn't even like to make an extra million dollars from it. So, so I just added value to him and now we're friends. And that connection led to another connection and led to another connection and led to another connection. So that's how, that's how you can do it for free. Literally.

I love it. And this is something so a lot of my clients are real estate agents and so I know you've talked about how you, you lost $1 million in real estate. So I understand real estate really well.

I love real estate still. Like I just made mistakes and I still invest in real estate today. Like I mean I haven't stopped, I just learned my lesson.

Yeah, yeah. I invest in real estate too. And this is why I, and I help, I help realtors on the inner game. Like the self doubts and all of the things. And it's the same thing that I tell them that you're offering this advice is just add value. What do they actually need that you can help without wanting anything in return? And I feel like that's the missing piece for a lot of these high level, like any really anybody, it doesn't matter when you start adding value. But it's like, it's like you have to learn to discern between adding value and people pleasing.

Yeah. Yes.

Like, yes. So. So do you have any, any insights on how you can discern from when it's like over giving? And my take on it is you're giving to get is I feel like becomes like more of a people pleasing in like a subconscious way. But how do you discern between like I'm giving value and now I'm just trying to like impress or people please somebody.

Y. Yeah. So now I don't believe this will be controversial. I don't believe in true altruism meaning like I just selflessly give because you know what I mean? Even if you do selflessly give and someone gives you so much gratitude back, you love the gratitude so you're doing it for at least for gratitude.

Right. The law of reciprocity. Like it has to be in this harmony.

Exactly. Or self satisfaction or just a feeling of pride that you're doing the right thing. Like you're doing it to trade feeling like a good person. So you're still trading something like no one does it without trading the feeling of feeling better that you're doing something good for the world. And there's nothing wrong with trading like, you know, so if you want to give because it makes you feel like a better person, that's the trade. So I don't really believe in true altruism for that context there. So the difference between people pleasing is what. What are you trading, though? So if you give in return to trade of just feeling like a better person or to trade the feeling of, you know, deepening a relationship, then that's awesome. But if you're trading for validation, then that's people pleasing. So be careful. You're trading when you give. If you're trading for validation, you're pleasing. If you're trading just to feel like a better person because it's just who you are or because you want to deepen a relationship or connect with someone better up the social ladder, then that's awesome. Trade. So that's. That's the distinction that I found over my times is I used to trade for validation, and now I don't trade for validation. I trade because of other reasons.

Yeah. And I just want to repeat that because, like, a lot of. A lot of our listeners today are. Are really working on that. There are twos in the Enneagram, right? They're helpers. They. They want to. They want to just give, but then they. What happens is the resentment comes when it's not coming back to them. And so it's like, are you giving for validation? That is for the people in the back stand. It is so true. And I think it's just such a really powerful question to ask yourself when you're adding value is like, what? You're adding value why? Right. And sometimes the answer might not be what you want it to be. Sometimes you're like the shadow. The shadow part of us comes in and up and out, and you're like, oh, God, I'm like, giving to get, like, what? And it's like, but we all are, right? It's a law of reciprocity, and it's the yin and the yang of. Of the harmony of. Of all of it. And I think most people are good in nature. You know, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. And it's like, people want your help. And I think a lot of times people are afraid to even ask for help.

Yeah.

Like, okay, so. So it's. Quick digress. I jump around a lot. So just.

There's a really good point. You said that about the resentment part. Because, like, I believe you should give to get. It's just what you're getting. Like, for example, if you want to grow an apple tree, you don't plant one seed. To grow an apple tree, you've got to probably plant a thousand seeds. And so you got to give and plant a lot to get that one tree. Most people, number one, they don't give enough or they don't plant enough seeds. And when they do plant seeds, the reason why resentment happens is because they expected that seed to give them mountain when in fact you don't know which seed is going to give you the apple. You just know that if you plant a thousand seeds, one of them will produce an apple tree. You just don't know which one. When you attach yourself to the actual seed that's going to meant to give back to you, that's when resentment happens. And so just because you give to one person, they didn't give back, you're expecting that seed to fruit into an apple tree when in fact you just give to 100 people. One of them will blow up your world because they will give back, but you just don't know which one. So remove the expectation of which seed is going to give you back the reward that you're giving in. That's, that's how you reflect our resentment.

I'm totally stealing this analogy. It's so good. I love it. Yeah, it's so true. It's like we're giving and I think it's as not to sound super meta or woo, but it's almost like the universe is watching in a way of how can you hold it? How can you hold it when you're not receiving right? How are you showing up? Are you quitting? Are you saying my life, life is over? I gave and I gave and I got nothing and nothing left to give. And I know we have to pour from a, a full cup but, but I love that it's like just keep adding value, keep adding value. And yet one of those seeds and not being attached to the particular person place thing to get to for it to come back because it will always, it always comes back. Life's a mirror. Yeah, right. Life's a mirror. It's always going to like reflect back to you whatever it is that you're giving. So I, I love that analogy. Thank you for sharing.

You're welcome.

That was, that was so beautiful. And so I want to talk a little bit about just for like newer, newer coaches and your tiny challenge. Because I, I read this book. Okay. Let's, let's put it up for the people in the back again. Tiny challenge. Read the book. It's so good. Yes. And you know, it's really interesting and maybe you can coach me through this. So I, I usually charge for a one on one session. Okay. Because I, you, I like You. I know you said you did a hundred hours of pro bono work, right? So have I. And so at some point, you're like, okay, my time. Like, there's an energetic exchange of money and time and value and. And all of. Right. I think there's. I'm probably gonna butcher the story, but there's like, a warehouse where something's broken in there, and the guy, like, finds where it's broken, puts an X on it, and he's like, that's $50,000. And they're like, why is that $50,000? You put a piece of tape on it. He's like, because of all of my experience to find the spot that was broken, I totally butchered the story.

I know the story. Yes.

Yeah, you get the idea of it. And so with the tiny challenge, you suggest. Okay, so why don't you explain what the tiny challenge is, and then I want to unpack it a little bit because of some things that are going on just in my brain about it. If you are willing to share 100%.

So if you're a coach, expert entrepreneur, you need to market yourself to get paying clients. You can't just open up a website and have a link that says book a free discovery call and you launch the website, and Tomorrow you got 20 bookings in your calendar. That's. That's not. I don't know. I don't think the universe is that kind. Like, that's, yeah, I gave so much and now I should give back in this awesome funnel that I created. It's not going to happen like that. So you have to actively market yourself, which means you need to pick a marketing vehicle. You can pick a webinar, a group challenge, a VSL, a podcast, a lead magnet, a book, a YouTube channel. Like, there's so many ways to market yourself to get leads that it's extremely overwhelming which one you go down. They all work. The problem is they won't work if you try all of them. So you have to pick one. And now if you pick one, which is the easiest one to start, because if you haven't made a hundred thousand dollars in your coaching business, then. Then you don't really have much skills because you haven't. You don't have marketing skills or speaking skills or tech skills or any of those skills required to sell one to many, and so then that makes it even harder to make it work. And so the reason why most. Most coaches have found when they're starting out, it's not because they're a bad coach or terrible what they do, it's because the vehicle they're using is too hard for them to make work. It's almost like, it's almost like giving a laptop to a 2 year old and say, hey, make this work. And the two year olds like can't even read or write. And so you're giving something too advanced for a beginner to make work. And what the Tiny Challenge is? The Tiny Challenge is a marketing vehicle which removes the skill required. You don't have to speak, you don't have to run tech, you don't have to have funnel, you don't have to sell one too many. You don't have the big audience because it's a five day challenge, like a group challenge, but it's done one on one, just you and one other person, which means that you don't even have to worry about launching because when you're launching an event, even a podcast or a webinar or a masterclass, you have to pick a date, you have to pick a time. What about Easter? What about Christmas? What about New Year's? What about all these things? Then what about filling up a room? What if no one shows up? Tiny Challenge, it's one on one. You pick any time that works for you. You get a 100% show rate. But more importantly, the intimacy and reciprocity you build through that from not even having a list is huge because all you need is one person. And so that's conceptually what it is.

Beautiful. Okay, so how does one get somebody into the challenge?

Yes, very easy. Most of us, if you've been somewhat a likable person, you will have 10 people in your world, which you may call family, friends, acquaintances, colleagues that you know that you can directly reach out to and let them know what you're doing. For example, if you say, hey, Karen, I know we've been friends for about five years now, just letting you know, I'm. You've probably seen online that I'm launching a brand new coaching business and I'm going to help women transform their lives and remove anxiety and become more confident in what they do. So I was just thinking about you and just wanted to let you know that that's what I'll be doing. I'm launching this five day one on one challenge with me. And if you know anyone that would be much appreciated if you could just send them my way, something like that. Now that's the message I'll send to you. Now if you have that same problem, you'll be like, oh, can I do that? And I'm like, well, of course. So I kind of indirectly asked you and also asked you for just some help and referral. And so if you did that to 10 people, you're going to find three or four that will come your way. And that's your first three or four tiny challenge registrations.

Beautiful. So your suggestion is reach out to 10 people that are in your world already and just let them know you're running the challenge, but not necessarily inviting them per se into the challenge, but seeing if they know anybody who would be interested in being in the challenge.

Yes. Yes.

Brilliant. I love it. Sorry, my dog is back here.

You're right. And that's what I did. That's what I did. My family members and I started like, I messaged all my cousins, I said, I'm starting a life coaching business. If, you know, anyone that needs some life coaching would appreciate your help and support when I post anything on social media. And then, and then two of them were like, actually, I'm looking for help. Can you help me? I'm like, okay, sure. And then that's kind of how it worked. Rather than just asking, like, you know, you don't want to cold DM people. You know what I mean? Like, cold sales.

Yeah. Nobody. Nobody wants, like, you can smell. Let's talk about that. You can smell like, salesy dm. Like from the first word. You're like, nope.

I can't believe people are still using the cold DM strategy like, they are.

Do you know how many DMs I get a day? You don't even want to know.

I mean, I don't know if it's still working. They must think it's a numbers game or, geez. Wow. It is fascinating. It's fascinating. Someone is teaching them that. And it's obviously still working with some people. So it's really fascinating.

Well, so I've been in like multiple coaching containers. Like, you don't even want to know how many. And yeah, it's really interesting how some of them are still teaching the cold dm. And I'm like, I'm like, immediate. Like, I get the ick, you know, Like, I'm like, so now I like F U C K. You can curse on here. I don't care. You can fuck with them, right? And. And I'll be like, okay, go ahead, sell me. What are you trying to sell me? Like, like, forget all this BS stuff. Just what are you trying to sell me? And they're like, oh, you got me. Well, now that you mention it. And it's like they, they don't know anything about me or my business and I'm like, why are you doing that? So I. Anyway, that was a quick digression. But yeah. So the time. So this is where I'm struggling with the tiny challenge. And I know, I know. I, I believe you have a Facebook group. And I, I joined the Facebook group. It has like 16, 000 people in it. You guys like or know, but it's incredible. And, and you're just. Everything that you're doing is so magnetic and so beautiful and so inspiring. So I'm just, I'm like really honored that you're on my show. So thank you. I just wanted to put that in there. But so for me. So a lot of my, I've done the, the like reaching out to the people I know. Right. Like getting them in my world a little bit. So for me, like, because I charge for a one on one session doing a five day, I think I'm having a hard time doing it for free.

Yeah, I hear you, I hear you. Yeah. Yep, yep. And you should have a hard time doing for free because you're more experienced, you've got the hours under your belt, you've got credibility, you can put the tape on and fix the problem in less than five minutes. When someone else takes three hours and it's still not fixed, you know, so there are two types of time to challenge. There's a free version and there's the paid version. My suggestion is if you have done less than 100 hours of coaching and or less than 100k in revenue in your coaching business, do the free version because number one, you don't have enough experience and, or you haven't made enough money. And so you need the experience and you need the money more than a person who's already passed that milestone. If you've done over 100 hours like yourself, or you made over 100, then do the paid version and do a paid tiny challenge. But just create an irresistible offer. Like for example, Russell Brunson did two tiny challenges, but he's not going to do it for free. How much you charge for it? A hundred thousand. Wow. For five days? Five calls. One on one. Five days. And, and so he did. He released this podcast that I was on with him and he said, I was just on this podcast with Richmond and I'm in love with the tiny challenge and I think I'm going to do one, but I'm going to charge a hundred thousand dollars for it and we're going to take two people. If that's you text this number. And he got 38 people. Text him straight away saying, I want him 38 people. And so he only credit to him, he only chose two, did the five day challenge and at the end of it he was like he was intending to sell a 250k offer but he didn't end up selling anything because he's like, I'm happy with the 100k. I'm good, I'm good. I didn't want to fulfill on 250k. So. So he charged $100,000 for it. And so you can definitely chart. Yeah.

That's amazing. And you did something that you talk about in the book too.

Thank you.

Yeah, in the book that I thought was a brilliant is because you're so you're an expert in what you do is you did a five figure offer, right. For a tiny challenge and then invited people to sit in to watch.

That's like the very last page of the book. Yeah, yeah.

I read every single word of that book.

Yeah, yeah. Yes. This is a, this is like the most scalable, I guess concept or strategy because you can't what people think you can't scale one on one coaching until now. So let's just say you were to do a tiny challenge and I don't know if you were to charge for a five day tiny challenge, what, what number would you thinking? Like.

So, so for me my whole idea is I have a mastermind for like called private residence. So I have a master mine where like all roads, like you have your underdog movement, right. Like you have, you have your like lower ticket which is for beginner coaches. And I know you have your expert right. Like the higher level coaches container. So for me it's like all roads lead to private residents. Right. Which is, which is a very affordable kind of the same like wanting people to like I'm rooting for the underdog too. Like I, I'm with you on that movement. I love it. And so for me it would be more of like I love the goal of a $5,000 five day challenge, you know, but for me right now what feels good is probably about $111, like 30 minutes. Like let's get five days in, maybe even three days just because I like to move fast.

Yeah.

But.

And that's an irresistible offer and you're worth 100 times more than that. And so if you were to put out a call to action that you're doing a five day one on one challenge, $111 you'll probably get 111 people apply in 24 hours. Right? So. And then you have the quality problem picking now. And so what you're talking about, you would ask, pick the person and say, hey, here's a caveat, though, because, because this is such a great offer, would you allow me to have, say, 50 people sit in the same zoom room and watch me coach you? And those 50 people, they probably have a similar problem to what you have. And so they can receive a similar transformation from watching me coach you over the five days and get permission for that. And that's called a shadow seat. And so they're just going to sit in and shadow and they're not allowed to. Like, you're not coaching group coaching. You're literally coaching one on one with someone shadowing and watching. And at the end they can stop, pause, and ask questions. And everyone says yes to that. And if they say no, then just pick someone else. And so the benefit with the shadow seat, because when you make the offer at the end of the tiny challenge, you're not offering it to one person, you're offering it to 50 people.

And now, now you're one to many. Sales.

Yeah, yeah. And how you sold that was through a complete demonstration of competency. And I believe that a demonstration of competency is the future of selling. Because right now everyone's so jaded with sales events and, you know, city salespeople putting people through like a choreograph sequence and trying to dispel all their limiting beliefs and then get into the pitch and all that kind of stuff. But that didn't demonstrate any competency. They just demonstrate salesmanship. And I think most people are very jaded by that. And now a tiny challenge allows you to demonstrate competency. And people are buying that.

And it's customizable. It's like, it's like when you get proximity to somebody who has experience or even who doesn't have experience, who literally just wants to help and serve, it's like you really. That's where you really add the value that we were talking about. And you can, you can see for yourself, like, like what the transformation can be. Okay, now here's, here's another. What do you do in this situation? Okay, because this has happened to me where I've had a session where I, I've taken a client through an experience, right? And the session was so powerful that they're like, I'm good. I don't need any more coaching. And I'm like, I gave too much, like shit. So Is there. And I know people like you said, like, as people grow, their needs change and it's like learning, okay, well, now that you're good here, where are your needs now? And, and what are some ways to kind of revisit? Like maybe, maybe some people who have gone through a tiny challenge or have been in your world that didn't necessarily say yes, but you, you're like, I think they're a hot lead. I think that's, they're just not a yes right now. What are some ways to kind of like circle them back if you've already brought them through maybe a tiny challenge, you already had a little bit of one on one. They're not ready yet. But how would you get them kind of like back in your world, would you do another tiny challenge with them or something different?

Both. Both to that. So this is, this is a great question because it's really discouraging when you give out everything. It's like, I'm good, I'm full. I didn't, you know, and then like, ah, it's frustrating. It's frustrating because you also know that there's another level for them that they just don't see it. So first of all, if you were to do 10 tiny challenges, the average student is enrolling three out of the first 10. And so that means seven people are saying no. Seven people are saying other version of I don't have the time or I'm good, or they were saying something like that. Now if you're enrolling 3 out of 10, my suggestion is do another 10 to get another 3. Don't worry about the 7 that say no because that's just part of the game. And so we just focus on the nos too much without realizing we got actually got three yeses. And if you got a $3,000 offer and you just got three yeses, you made $9,000 from 10 tiny challenges, which you can do in a month. And that's a really good month. And my suggestion is do more. So don't, don't try to convert more, just do another 10 and you'll be fine. Now, to your point about, should you do a second tiny challenge? 100%. Most people, in actual fact, from, from our research, about 60% of our customers right now had to do a second thing of ours before they bought. Not most people don't buy the first time they go through your tiny challenge or the first time they go on a podcast or the first time you got on the webinar. They have to go on that second One or that third one, then they buy. And so the seven that said no, about three months later at most, you can re engage with them and say, hey, I'm running a new tiny challenge on a different topic. That first one was on confidence. This one is on finding your partner or something like that, you know, and you know what problems they had. And, and they're like, would you like to participate again? And of course they're going to say yes because they had a great experience the first time, but now the second time, not only are you better, your offer's probably better, there's more trust. It's almost a done deal. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, that makes, that makes total sense. And just one more, one more question on that. So how would you market this tiny challenge on social?

Easy.

Like, okay, tell me, tell me all the other things.

Quickest way to do it is if you're watching this and listening to this podcast right now, pull out your phone, go on Insta or Facebook and do a story and say, hey, I just got this amazing podcast from Karen and this guy named Richmond from Australia. And they do these one on one five day challenges. And I thought, wow, that's so cool. And you know, I help, you know, you guys know, I help women overcome anxiety and trauma in their life. And I'm looking for two women that I really want to help in a one on one, five day challenge with one on one, just me and you, for five days only for two women. And we're going to walk through to help you that in five days or less. It's completely free. But I'm only doing it for two women. If that's you, just, just reply me and I'll get back to you straight away. Or if you know someone like that and just tag them in here. This has never been done before and I've just been inspired from this podcast. I just got off. Boom, done. And that's it.

Boom.

Yeah. Boom.

Love it. Yeah. So good. Oh my gosh. I'm gonna try it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it. Yeah, I'm for free. Just for fun, I'm gonna take one person. One person for free. Why not, right?

Do it for 111 and say it's $111, you get all your money back. Five days, something like that. But here's the key. When you do that, refundable deposit structure. Because I've done many of those where it's like, hey, it's $5,000. You get the $5,000 at the end of, at the end of the tiny challenge when you get, when you finish it, provided you just complete all the homework now.

It helps them show up.

Yeah, exactly. Helps them show up. And also when you present your offer, you say hey, we can use that 5000 or 111 towards the offer that I have. And they're like, oh, that's a no brainer. And that's how you do it. It.

Beautiful. Yeah, I love that. I love taking like whatever challenges or any kind of small investments and applying it to the bigger investment. I feel like that's such a great strategy on just like helping people kind of move up the ladder. And I know we talk about the ladder there, there's so many goodies in here. You guys like like he talks about like how to, how to tell your story right? There's like there's framework on how to tell your origin story on how to put yourself on putting like the framework of what the challenge actually needs to be. So I'm not going to go through that because I want you guys to buy the book and I will link that. I'll link the just I'll link the book for people to purchase in my, in my show notes. So before we head out, what is something besides up leveling their peer group and paying to play? What is something that somebody can do in the next 24 hours to just start moving the needle in their life? Not even maybe in their business, but just in their life. Like what, what can we do in the next 24 hours that's like this is going to change my life?

Yes. This is so simple that everybody can do and I feel you probably resonate with it is it's journaling, but journaling directed in a very directable way. And so it's so noisy in here. I don't know how people just don't journal. It's like noisy in your mind and you got to get everything out of your mind. Number because when you write things out you just get clarity for yourself. But deliberate journaling, what I mean that, that is of course gratitude is really important because when you're in a state of gratitude, you don't have any fear and you cannot feel fear and gratitude at the exact same time. It is impossible. It's opposing forces. And so when you're in a set of gratitude, that's when you can think clearer. Now journaling, there's a question that I ask myself. I wouldn't say every day, but at least, at least every second day asks my, myself this question. I think about something that I want to do or achieve in my life. And I ask the question, what would I be most afraid of happening if I were to do that? And so that question there is not only a great closing question on a sales conversation in a tiny challenge, but it presupposes that you're going to do it and you're just afraid of something happening if you were to do it. And once you get clear on that answer and you journal that, then you start doing it. So, for example, I really want to do that story that, you know, my first call to action about a tiny channel to really, I really want to do it, but I'm scared because it might be scary because maybe you haven't done a story before, maybe you haven't put yourself on camera before. Maybe you're scared, no one says anything. And you get crickets and they're like, oh, put myself out there for nothing. Maybe you know that your mom's watching and she judges everything you do. So, so then you general what would have been most afraid of happening if I were to do that story? And you. And yet, well, my mom would judge me. And then what would that mean? Yeah, I don't know. I don't care. Okay. I'm just gonna do the story. And you always end up somewhere when you, when you realize that it's doesn't really mean anything and then you end up doing it. So it could be a small thing or a big thing, but that question, there has been a game changer and I believe anyone can do it.

Yeah. And, and I love, I love that question. And just to take it even deeper, it's like the very thing that we're afraid of or the very feeling that we're trying to avoid is the very feeling we're creating by trying to avoid it. So it's like if I'm avoiding the fear by not doing it, I'm just creating more fear about doing the thing. So it's really dropping into your body of, okay, if this were to happen, this worst case scenario, and really feeling the fear of it, where is it most activated? You've already, you're already doing the work. So when you're actually going to do the thing, it's neutralized and you're able to move forward. And then it becomes less thinking, more doing. Right. Like, okay, but that is such a beautiful journaling prompt and thank you for that. And yeah, it's like, I don't really care. What am I being judged for? Who cares? You know, like, I didn't die right we don't have to be in fight or flight about it. It's literally like. Like five, you know, whoever watches your story, it's gone in 24 hours anyway, you know, so. And you could delete it if you had to, so.

Exactly.

So beautiful. Well, thank you so much. Just, I was wondering, where can people find you? Where do you hang out the most? And how can people connect with you?

The easiest way to connect with me is on my personal Facebook page or Instagram. That's the easiest way you'll find me. Richmond Din with the blue tick. And if they're looking for more, if they're looking for deeper dives on what we talked about, I have a YouTube channel that can watch, you know, our long videos there too, if they want to. If they want to.

Of course they want to. This will be on YouTube also, so. Yes, of course. Of course. Awesome. I will put all of that in the show notes with all of the links of where to find you, connect with you, connection to your book. And I am just so incredibly grateful for coming on the show and spending time with us today. And you just have so much value, and you added so much value today. I just really appreciate you. Thank you so much.

Yep, you're most welcome.