176- Courage to Leap & Lead with Jenny Lincoln, part 1

You've got courage to leap, courage to lead. Be brave and be bold. Whoa, let it roar. Welcome to the Courage to Leap and Lead podcast, where each of our guests share the stories of courage that helped them become powerful leaders. Before we start today's show, please remember to visit courage-consulting.com. Where you can find all the episodes and other excellent resources, all at courage-consulting.com. Now here's your host, Leadership Courage Coach CB Bowman.

Hello everybody. Well, it's Tuesday. Actually, I'm recording this several Tuesdays ahead of when you see it. Because this woman likes to have everything prepared ahead of time. So we literally have about 20 episodes in the bank. So mark your calendars so that you're always ready to join me Tuesday at 12 o'clock Mountain Time. And today we have a guest, Jenny, who expresses herself as a nomad or a former nomad. So let's find out a little bit more about that. And how does that really relate to courage? What are the takeaways that you can hear for your life? So let's get it started. Let's go, as I like to say. Jenny, welcome.

Thank you very much, CB. It's an honor and a privilege to be here. Thank you. Thank you.

Great. So now we just talked a little bit. I like my guests to have some background so that people can relate to that. and sort of have a connection with the speakers.

Mm-hmm.

And you mentioned to me that your background is just what you see. It's part of the earthy color series. I see you wearing yellow and, and gold, and those are earth colors, and your glasses are brown from what I could see. Tell us about how you define yourself really as an earthbound person and as a nomad? So that sounds interesting.

Yeah, it is. It is very interesting, actually. So probably the first thing that sparked when you were asking me that, as, as a nomad, I travel— I have no possessions or no belongings, or next to none. So I travel with 22 pounds. That's all I own in the world.

anymore.

So hence, you know, what you see here is the extent of me in terms of, uh, if I go to the be-do-have model of self-definition, I have very little in terms of material possessions, uh, and I do, uh, I, I do— my doing is very free-spirited, uh, it's informed by my intuition, uh, things unfold for me. So I don't have a planned life. That's a little different at the moment because I'm in the process of working with a coach at the moment for 12 months to get onto big stages. So you have to be a little more planned and, but you can still be fluid. You know, fluidity is really important. Allowing the unfolding and the simplicity of life is very, you know, important for me. How does that tie into courage? Well, Packing up a 4-bedroom home in Sydney, Australia and walking away from my life and 10 years later still having no fixed address, that took a huge amount of courage. But the reward was the biggest sense of liberty that I have ever, ever had because it allowed me to actually address the be part of the Be Do Have model because I left all my old—

Well, One second. Let's just go back. What is this B2HAF model?

Be, do, have.

Oh, be, do, have. Okay.

Correct.

That's sort of like kill what you eat or eat what you kill.

Well, I suppose it could be.

Well, yeah, not saying that to be fresh, but it sort of reminds me of that philosophy of not overusing the environment, not overusing, um, not being wasteful, you know?

True.

Yeah. So it sort of reminds me of that. And I know some people think of it as a negative term, but I think of it more as being centered around what you want and just not being, not being persuaded by a Nordstrom ad of this fabulous dress, you know, or Amazon and buying everything on Amazon that you see, you know, that you That you'll probably never even open the package.

Totally. And you are absolutely spot on, because what happens is when we, uh, I kind of feel like our self-identity is like X marks the spot. You know, if you go hiking or you go to a park and there's a map and it says, you know, has a little X and says you are here. To me, what you feel and think about yourself and who you believe you are is your X marks the spot. If you're feeling, you Think about those mornings when you get up and the birds are singing and, you know, the sun is shining and you feel like love in your heart and you've got all this wonderful energy and you bounce out of bed and you look at the mirror and you go, oh, I like what I see.

Yeah, after I lose 20 pounds.

You don't look at that. You don't even see that. You know, a couple of days later, you know, you wake up And, you know, the alarm wakes you up and you wake up thinking about the 50 billion things you have to do. And before you're even at the bathroom, you, you've added another 20 items and you look in the mirror and you, all you see is the wrinkles and the faults and the blemishes and the bags. And that kind of sets you up for the day, right? Mm-hmm. So You know, who you think you are in a moment, in one particular moment, in that moment, or who you believe you are in terms of the essence of you is really, really important because it will— that day that you're thinking about your to-do list and you're carrying burden, you feel like you have less choice. Everything feels more effortful. Whereas that when you're in that moment of, you know, your heart is open and you hear the birds singing, singing because they're probably always singing.

Yeah.

Just don't hear them through all the stuff that's going on. That dictates your day. And so you define yourself by what we think and feel. And that kind of brings me to this be, do, have model, which you gave such a brilliant example of, is that more often we define ourselves by the things we have. Oh, yes, I need to buy that dress, you know, all the things. And that kind of links us into that consumerism addiction we have to buying and accumulating. And if we have more, then we will be more. And then we have that other aspect of the doing, which is that addiction to busyness, you know. And we keep ourselves so busy because that actually gives us significance too, because we think, well, if I'm doing this, this, and this, I'm contributing more, which makes— gives my life purpose, or Maybe it gives me a sense of value. But a lot of those things, when we dive into them and we're distracted by them, it actually distracts us from who we be, you know, the essence of who we be. Like, for me, my essences are love. You know, my heart is open all the time. I like to lead through the lens of love. My currency is generosity. You know, I will always give first. You know, I have a mantra that you go first and the universe follows. So I'll always take that first step. And so things like that, like gratitude, I really love deep gratitude to the point that I get tears of truth. You know, I'm so moved to the point that I, if I don't get tears of truth in a particular day, I feel, oh, I've ripped myself off. I haven't lived a rich, deep life today, you know. So does that make sense to you?

Oh, it absolutely makes sense. It sort of reminds me of the days of, um, well, now I'm going to tell my age, uh, you know, the, the beatniks and the hippies, and, and not the ones that were faking it, the ones that truly believed in living and learning and feeling. You know, um, when I grew up I grew up when the coffee shops in the Village were very famous.

Right.

And we would sit there, and those were the days of Andy Warhol, where you sat there for 5 hours and you discussed a Campbell's Soup can.

Yes.

And you had a riveted back and forth, and, you know, no, that red is too red, or that, you know, it was insane.

Yeah.

And you walked away thinking, God, I so disagree with that person, but somehow I feel so rejuvenated. I feel like, you know, I got the essence of what I was thinking, and I heard the essence of what other people were thinking. And so I understand, coming from the arts myself, the essence of really being able to see. You know, the other day— I've been very stressed writing my book and getting it out. And the other day I noticed something in a common drive that I take. It was a house and I'd not seen it before. And I've been here 3 years and I said to myself, you know what? You stopped seeing. Mm-hmm. You need to start seeing again. That's what enabled you to write your book. You need to get to a mode where you actually see what's in front of you.

Yeah.

So I totally get it. You know, all of these things that we're talking about— seeing, hearing, believing, values— we somehow skip over them these days. We say the words, I see how to drive, but am I really seeing? And in Africa, there's an expression of umbuto.

Mm-hmm.

That means I— in different areas, it means different things. But the one that I love the most is, I see you.

Hmm.

Which means I don't see the yellow sweater, the brown beaded necklace, the earrings, the glasses. I see into you. I see what you are, what your values are, what your beliefs are, what your soul is. And that's what's important to me.

100%.

Yeah. When my— I just put down my companion for 14 years, and he would just look at me when I was talking to him. And people say dogs don't feel. Oh my God, this dog would look at me like he was seeing through me. in me, around me, and he got it, right? All of my dogs have had that expression. And to that point, when he decided it was time for him to go, he came and he told me. And then he started to let go by hiding, which animals do.

Yeah.

To say, I don't want you to have to experience this. I've said goodbye and now it's time.

Yeah.

So I, I totally understand what you're saying. Have you received any negative comments about your beliefs that you feel are justified? And then are those that you feel are not justified?

Yeah, let me think about that. Um, well, for starters, I, I have a, a saying that the words people say say more about them than you, because they're through their—

Oh, I like that a lot.

They're through their filters.

Um, and so— Yeah, it's very Maya Angelou, and it is very— it's fabulous.

Yeah, so that's always at the forefront of my mind. So, and then, you know, back from my old days when I used to teach body language, uh, words only account for 7% of meaning, and yet they are such red flags for us.

Mm-hmm.

And you were talking about the experiences back in the beatnik days where, where you were and people had the time and the presence because life wasn't so crazy and chaotic, to be able to sink into that moment. And you would take meaning— the other 93% of meaning would come from all the other sensory perception, which is also what— how your dog and our animals are, and whatever four-legged beings are connecting that way. Even, you know, dolphins in the water, they connect in that way through multisensory. And I think that's one of the things that we have forgotten in— and, uh, and I do believe our ancestors had such a better relationship here and understanding of this because of their, their relationship with nature. They were more multidimensional and multisensory than we were. We kind of bow down to the mind and we believe that that is our truth. But, you know, the mind can become a steely cage. I know that for a fact. You know, I, I was into mind mastery when I, in my 30+ years at corporate and I just built the steeliest trap out. And then it took me time with a spiritual mentor and then 3 and a half years of depression to reinvent, to break down all my old definitions. And I'll tell you what, that's living courageously. Anyone in that space, it's icky. It's awful. It's hard work, you know, getting trapped between that sense of futility or hopelessness and then that silent rage, you know, because you can't get yourself out of it, you know. Um, that's, that's, that takes oodles of courage. So I take my hat off to anyone that experiences any type of depression or, um, you know, uh, challenges with the shadow side.

Um, Let's, let's talk about that a moment. Sorry to break this.

No, go.

I think that's— you're saying some really important things that resonate with some of our listeners. Um, let's go back to your life in corporate. What did you do?

I started as a chartered accountant, so I was— I started with one of the Big 4 chartered accountancy firms. And I was what I called an auditron. I was an auditor. I did debits and credits.

Oh my God. Oh my God, how awful. That's enough to depress you right there. Yeah.

But in saying that, CB, it's, um, it was the one of the most wonderful foundations of learning for me being in one of the large multinational firms, the level of, um, the dedication to continuous learning. And the access to diversity of experiences of people, just of opportunity was incredible. So that was kind of my birthplace for, even though, you know, I was an accountant and I was doing debits and credits, which puts most people to sleep.

Well, first of all, I'm highly dyslexic. So The word numbers upsets me much less than seeing them. Yeah, exactly. Bring the garlic.

Yeah, no-go zone. And that's the case for a lot of people. But you know what? And back in those days when you're an accountant like that, I was a bit— I was probably more demure then, but then I found my own personality. My clients loved me because I'd come in with Cossack boots on and jangling things and And then, you know, every second week I was getting hauled into the partner's office going, Lincoln, you know, you're not dressing appropriately for a chartered accountant. You should be in a blue or a black suit. And I'm going—

Stripes with pinstripes.

Yeah, but it was like, ask my clients, are they happy? Yes. Do they love the color and the vibrancy? Yes. They appreciate individualism. So it was kind of, um, it certainly wasn't the mold for me, but my goodness, it was a wonderful start. And so I'm ever grateful for that. And so I went from financial accounting and being a financial controller and running businesses and winding down businesses to a strategist to buying and selling businesses. And then I went into print media and I was in the print media. So newspapers.

Yeah.

Yep. I was in the print business. when online hit. So I got to experience a most masterful piece of disruptive technology, which is a wonderful lesson for us all, you know, personally and in our businesses. And every day living through something like that, which is kind of what we live through now, requires you to be in your courage zone because the landscape is changing. So quickly, you know. So that's kind of the nutshell. And then I did a big program where I had to rip, you know, $50 million out of a company, which meant I ended up sacking or retrenching. Sorry, I should use the correct language, but I had to lay off 350 staff. And after that, I thought, I can't do this. This is not who I am. You know, and, um, so I totally retrained as a behavioralist. And, and then after I did all of that, I actually left corporate and then studied every alternative healing and whatever modality I could find. And I went kind of, you know, that, that's when I went into that depression stage. And that's what took me from a—

But wait, wait. It was It sounds counterintuitive because you are now studying behavior, and that was the time when you were in depression.

Well, I, I reached— I— so I— yes, yes. What it did was studying, getting really into the behavioral aspects, made me realize I had this massive disconnect with who I thought I was at a truth level, who I be. And it wasn't my truth. I had been conditioned to be that way. I realized as I started to do that work and I fell into this bleakness of depression because nothing, nothing had relevance to me anymore. Like the same things that sparked me, like influence and, you know, salary and, and, you know, even just leading people and having people dependent upon me. That sounds awful, doesn't it? But, uh, you know, that I just— it was like, no, my heart was just going, you— there's more. There's got to be more to this. There— you've lost all sense of meaning. You wanted to be a successful businesswoman. You are. You've ticked that box. But now you're starting to understand the nuances of human behavior. There is a deeper calling. And So I, um, the depression became, uh, what I call my deep depression deliverance. It actually, what it did was it broke down my whole value set of, and my belief set because it was no longer relevant. Right. And so I started to question it. Like, if you think of a home, when you renovate a home, you know, you take the roof off, the walls out. I was doing that to my inner sanctum. And you get to a point where you go, I don't even recognize myself. Nothing that used to motivate or inspire me ticks the boxes. And now I can't get off the floor of my, you know, my room in my house. But I can walk in if I have a contract for a corporation and manage a change management program, but I can't seem to get myself off the floor to do something for me. And it became a really important and necessary breaking down of who I was because I was born into a commercial family where business and making money was el supremo. Feelings and emotions were a weakness. They weren't talked about. You didn't hug. And when I go back to my 6-year-old self, she was a hugger, a lover, a dreamer, a free spirit, and a deep feeler. And to fit into my family and then into business, I pushed all of that aside. But I got to a point where I couldn't not listen to it anymore, you know.

So, so what do you think was actually the trigger Just the single most important trigger for this.

Okay, this is—

wow.

Okay, so I've got spirit tingles, I've got tears of truth welling in my eyes. So this is really important, um, and I'm really, you know, thank you for asking, but it's a very revealing, um, uh It's gonna be a really revealing answer. I went down this path because I didn't have a good relationship with my mother to the point that there was a point in my life, and I, I don't like saying these words, but this is how I felt back then. I hated her.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, it rips my heart out to say that today. She's 95 and, you, you know, she's a dear and she's still alive and we have a really wonderful, uh, relationship. But we had a lot of family stuff that meant when I was younger, I became the adult and she became the dependent. And so I carried this resentment into my 20s and then 30s. And then one day I was walking down the road and I saw a sign for Dr. John Demartini, his Breakthrough Process. And I, Tried to walk past it, and I got to the, to the, the next road, and I turned around. I did that honestly 7 times. So I rang my PA at the time and said, you have to cancel all my meetings for the rest of the day. I'm going into this course. I had no idea what it was about. I just knew I had to be there. And I sat my ass down.

Wow.

That shifted everything. That's when I thought, oh wow, he talked about quantum physics. He talked about how you define yourself. And all of a sudden everything's just started shattering. But the more I got into it, CB, the more desolate I became because I, I was giving up everything. I'd taken off the walls, taken out the roof, and I was left with my foundations. And I looked at that and I thought, I can't build the truth of me on these foundations. They— the structure is unsound. So then I had to implode the very things that all my foundations were built on, which was mastery and influence and, um, achieving and perfectionism.

I want to go back. I want to Let's talk a little bit about your mom. So what was it that happened where you became the mom and she was, in effect, the child?

She— so, um, uh, she had a very messy divorce and, um, she fell into a very deep depression. when I was like between— started probably when I was about 13. I think she'd actually been in it prior to that when my parents were together, but I wasn't really conscious of that. And so the roles started flipping from age 13 until— from 13 to 18. And so, you know, I she'd be lying in bed and not be able to get out of bed, and she'd be crying. And I would be in the bathroom washing sheets, you know, in the bathtub kind of thing, and then dragging them downstairs and washing them and, you know, doing that sort of stuff. And when I got my license, I'd start doing all the shopping and the chores and things like that. And so I held a resentment around that because I had to trade my teenage years to— well, it wasn't so much that. I think it was more just the burden. I felt like I had to take responsibility for her.

Sure.

And I wasn't equipped and I didn't know how. And I felt that it was unfair. All those sorts of things that you think about when you achieve— you're a very self-centered person when you're a teenager. You're discovering, starting to discover your own sense of self, you know. So that—

And at that time, um, is the time where you're learning to be an adult instead of having to automatically assume that role, which is— Yeah. Yes.

And I think, you know, when I feel into it, probably the seed of resentment came from feeling I was forced into it. I had no—

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And this isn't unusual. When I, you know, this show has allowed me the opportunity, excuse me, to hear stories like this from others, both men and women. And I always have so much respect for these individuals who were— who went through this kind of situation and came out on top, you know. And on top means different things to different people.

Yes.

You know, some just became wealthy. Some people Some people went to the more volunteer giving mode. Some people just became comfortable in who they were now. I have a colleague who just wrote a book who went through a very challenging childhood also. And you know what? I just don't think that the world recognizes the power That these individuals have. Because when you can take control over yourself, knowing that you don't know what's going to happen, and you're not sure which direction to move, because you don't— you can't even hypothesize the outcome.

Yes.

It's different when you could say, well, you know what, I think I'm going to go in this direction because this will be the outcome. It's like looking at a black hole. You just don't know. And all you've got is really yourself to hang on to.

Totally.

Which is an image in itself. Right? Yeah. So, God, I have such respect for people like yourself. This is just amazing.

I think we all— I call these mush moments. You know, we all talk about the caterpillar to the butterfly, but no one talks about the pile of green stinking goo that the poor caterpillar becomes during the process of transmutation. It actually loses form. and becomes a puddle of green goo. And yeah, as humans, I believe we all have our own mush moments. And so depression was a really big mush moment for me. I lost my whole sense of definition and form.

How did you know, for our listeners, and I'm, I realize this may be different from different people, how did you know that you were in a state of depression? How? Because when you're in a state of depression, it changes your reality. So how do you go from a changed reality to saying to yourself, wait a second, you're in a state of depression, you have a choice, do something or not? How do you first know?

Well, I think the first signs for me were— and I don't mean this in any disrespect or any— but I actually felt a bit bipolar because I would swing from one thing You know, one minute I'd be calm and then the next minute I'd be, you know, in this, in this dark, morose, you know, I'd be one minute I'd be happy and then the next minute I was in this dark, morose space. And then that, that volatility, the volatility was the first sign. And I thought, well, maybe I'm just not coping. And I thought, how can I be not coping with being a beach bum? You know, come on.

Okay. So this is Critical because we all go through moments of unhappiness.

True.

And we say, okay, especially those of us that are married. I'm gonna feel a new way. And I'm like, what? It's not like on television.

Yeah.

I get pissed off at him and then, okay, it's all lovey-dovey. Then I get pissed off. I'm like, What? This is not Donna Reid here. So how did you know that that was depression versus normal life in quotes?

Okay, because I had— oh gee, I'm about to choke on my own words. How amazing. I wonder— that's really interesting.

I—

well, this is a hard discussion.

I—

yeah, it is. It's, it's, uh, but it's an important one. And if, if anyone can— if people that are in this space, uh, get a sense of understanding, and maybe it's not as futile, maybe depression actually does for some people have purpose, a sense of purpose. Maybe, you know, the process of transmutation happens when you're hanging on to the, the past and you don't want to change because you're scared, and what I was doing, and I didn't know how. Uh, um, but, uh, it was— I couldn't— I had a wonderful life. I had a beautiful partner, you know, she was so supportive and so loving and all of that, and she understood me. Um, uh, and, you know, I had a beautiful life and a beautiful home, but I just felt this deep, dark cloak of not just sadness. It's the sadness plus the futility and the frustration of, I just can't do anything. I'm trying. I consciously choose. And, you know, having, you know, retrained as a behavioralist and had tried— like, I tried energy healing. I did all sorts of stuff on myself. And it would last for, uh, the spark would— might happen. Most of the time it didn't, but if it did, it would light. But then it was like a wind would come and out, out the light went. So it was like my pilot light just couldn't relight, and I was just in this dark, gnarly, gloomy space that I just wanted to crawl into, you know. And I didn't want anyone to see me because I kept logically, I was going, I have a really good life. Why am I not happy? Why can I not be happy? What, pardon me, the fuck is wrong with me that I am ungrateful? And so then you start this tirade of judgment on yourself because you think, you know, maybe it's gratitude. You know, where thought goes, energy flows. So you do all the mental work and I'll shift my focus. I'll, you know, think myself out of depression. And the reality is, is that you— it's, it's a full-body experience. The heart and the soul needs— I needed to heal. I needed to connect with my truth. I needed to allow the love that was me. And you know how I, I said those words that I hated my mother? What I realized was I actually hated myself. You know, and this whole, uh, and part of the, the hate of myself was because I, you know, started drinking and then I got violent, you know, uh, I became an alcoholic at 30, um, and, and, you know, all these sorts of things. So I, I had some really ugly behavior. which I then judged and I was embarrassed about, and I held a lot of shame around and all those sorts of things too. And what I realized all of that taught me was how to love myself unconditionally. Because when you've done some pretty ugly things, to be able to, um, let them go and see the true essence of you, not be defined by your actions, and be like— when you know better, you do better, you know? You can be a different person when you got the conscious awareness, when you've got the understanding, when you've got the toolkit, you know?

Um, you said something that's— that I'm stuck in, right?

Let's go there.

Yeah. Do you feel that it's not okay to hate a parent?

I think it's just part of my conditioning. We were brought up to never use the hate word. You can immensely dislike someone. Again, words, finessing.

Yes, but, but it's, you know, again, I want to explain why I asked that.

Yeah, go for it.

I've heard a lot of people who have come into their own and, and were held back in their story, and telling it to me was because of something their parents did which turned into their hate of the parent. And when I ask people that, they say to me, well, I realized that I didn't hate my parents. I hated myself. And I want to explore that because I believe it's okay to hate somebody and not say it's you.

Yeah.

Because there could be— there's some atrocities that are out there. When we look at the news, you know, mothers burning children, mothers locking them up, or fathers, you know, abusing them, whatever it is, I have trouble with, no, it was my fault.

I agree, because I think— so here's, here's my thoughts on that.

Yes.

Thoughts and feelings. So I think there's a— there can be a piece for you.

And I'm not saying your mother did any of that. It's just my mind went that way.

No, I think this is a really good discussion, and I think it's a really important issue. I, I think as a child you tend to— because you're the center of the universe, you, you, you—

And you should be.

Exactly. And we all should be the center of our universes. I totally agree with that. But you— the way you process everything is that you believe it's your fault. Right. So Dad left. Obviously I did something wrong, or I wasn't lovable enough to make—

Yes, exactly. Yeah.

Okay, so you slide into that. That's the slippery slope we get on. And so we start taking ownership and blame for everyone else's stuff, you know. And it's really important that we don't, because we're not here— I'm not here to take responsibility for your actions and reactions. My personal sovereignty requires me to own my actions and reactions, my thoughts and feelings, my values and beliefs. So, you know, it's interesting. I, uh, like, I don't have dysfunctional relationships with people. You know, when a relationship comes full circle and it's time to recalibrate the relationship into a different form, um, I always hold love and connection and, and still in those people's lives, right? And the reason why I feel that's important and I'm bringing it up is because if someone does something to you in a moment, we can— if when we're, we're conscious and aware, we can go, okay, we can understand, we can see the action. If we're in a space of open-heartedness and love, we can look at the intent That's that sensing capability of that person was having a bad day, or that person actually has a wound of their own, and they're speaking from the wound, not the scar. And so, you know, hurt people hurt people. And so you can create some distance, right? But what happens is if we— someone does something to me, and then I choose to relive that. That person did me a wrong. Well, what is wrong and what is right? You know, that's a whole different conversation. But my choice to keep dwelling in that—that person did that to me, that person did that to me, that person did that to me—I then choose to carry that wrong, that hurt forward, and it's actually my choice. I'm doing that to me, you know.

What's that?

So there used to be a really great little Buddhist story. 2 monks are walking down the road and they get to a little stream and there's been rain, so the stream is wider and there's a beautiful woman, geisha girl, I suppose, there. And she's standing on this side of the river and the first monk says to the lady, I can carry you across the stream. And the second monk glares at him as he picks her up and carries her across the stream and puts her down on the other side. They go on for— they continue their walking for an hour or two. And finally, the first monk says to the second monk, Brother monk, what is on your mind? Please speak. And he said, I cannot believe you picked up that woman and carried her across the river. And he says, Brother Monk, I put her down 2 hours ago. Why are you still carrying her?

Wow. I love that story. Love it. I hope that's going to be part of your TED Talk. That is a powerful— it took me a minute to follow you. I'm like, where is she going with this? And every time I thought you were gonna go one place, it went that way. And then when you finished, I'm like, wow, that is so powerful.

Yeah. And see, here's the thing, and this is why I love being nomadic. This is what one of the biggest lessons I've had from being a nomad, and we're— and this kind of brings us full circle back to the beginning, is that I carry next to nothing physically, but also mentally, mentally and emotionally. I have done so much work on myself, and it's a forever thing. You know, I can't stop. It's going to keep happening. But I put down that luggage every time I get triggered. I go, okay, what's my piece in this? I don't have to take responsibility for somebody else's piece, but is there a piece for me? And if I have been triggered or activated and I've got an emotional charge going on, then I believe that's part of our feedback system. It's what I call HUMNAV, the human navigation practice, which is how we get feedback that we have an old version or a limiting belief or a value, uh, you know, a value set that we've outgrown. You know, it's activated. It's telling us, it's calling our attention to say, hmm, it's time to release that. You've outgrown that. You know? So, yeah, it's, um, it's, um, sorry, my mind's just gone blank, which means I should stop talking.

No, no, it means you're deep in thought. And processing where you're going to go next with it. Ladies and gentlemen, we have just had an amazing interview with Jennie. Jennie Lincoln talks to us about how she went from being at the top of the world as defined by others to the bottom of the world as defined by herself. And then back up to the top to write her own life story in a way that helps others. Stay tuned for part 2. This is CB Bowman, Encouraged to Leap and Lead.