CB Live: Courage Consultant with CB Bowman and Izabela Lundberg, Episode 84

Hello everybody, you know it's Tuesday and guess what? You're here with CB Bowman live on a new topic area which is courage. And today, guess what? I have a secret, it's a good one. I'm going to be the guest. Yay! And my dear friend, oh my God, she's a pistol-packing woman, Isabella. Now you're going to have a chance to see the type of people I hang out with. Oh my God, what a firecracker. She is going to interview me, so you'll have a chance to hear me speak and Isabella talks. So without further ado, Isabella, first before we start Tell us a little bit about you.

Wow. I did not expect that, CB, but thank you for the opportunity. Talk about doing a little twist and turn on me. Obviously, I am absolutely thrilled to be part of this conversation today as we're tapping into something that we're seeing so much that leaders are missing, which is courage. But before we dive into that, we're also seeing a lot of shifts and change and something that we're seeing tremendous resignation, don't we? And as a result, what is happening and how we solve. And one of the things that I personally do, I help solve the Great Resignation by actually creating great invention, because we have to reinvent. We cannot just restructure. We have to do extra work. But when we do things right, CB, magic happens, right? You can't— you can't make from poor foundation stable new home, right? Or new infrastructure. You have to sometimes start over. Or you have to really do properly to make magic happen. And that's what I do.

Well, you know, first of all, one of your fan club members is already online. John Saunders. Hi, John. John is online and he says, um, Isabella is amazing. You said it. Hey, you know what? I always tell you a secret, but this is a real secret. Well, actually, this is transparency. Isabella is part of the Women's Power Pack group, and if you do not know Kick-Ass Women, oh my God, this is quite a group. And its focus is on successful women like Isabella supporting other successful women. So if you want to know more about it, give me a shout out on LinkedIn and I will tell you about it. So without further ado, I'm gonna be interviewed. I'm nervous. Okay, it's all yours. CB, buckle up.

And John, great to see you. I'm so glad you were able to join us, and thank you so much for wonderful feedback. You're amazing yourself. Uh, but really what we're tackling today is something really hot and important— courage. First of all, what that means and what's that about means different things to different people, but someone who is subject matter expert, who has been there, done that, cannot better tell us than CB Bowman. Um, not only known as a phenomenal keynote speaker and consultant, but also the founder of such a great association for professional coaches. If you guys don't know anything about that, you should definitely tap into it and learn more about ACEC. And of course, Women's Power Pack Group, because I have to opportunity to be part of powerful women and feel supported and have opportunity to learn and challenge each other and do better, greater things, it's magical. So with that same principle, what we're doing here today, it's pushing buttons and really want to find out which ones. So CB, could you please tell us, how did you first of all came enlightened about courage as a key ingredient to your success?

So first of all, you know, things happen by accident that really we think are accident but on purpose.

Yeah.

And so I did not realize that I was a courageous person. People have told me that all my life, and it just sort of like, oh yeah, you know, um, how we women do. Yeah, well, I'm not courageous. I, you know what, I just took an action. But then I received a call from a member of ACEC asking me to be a keynote speaker in her association in Spain for executive coaches. And I said, of course, anything for a member of ACEC. And I said, so you want me to talk about diversity, DEI? And she said, no. And I said, uh, do you want me to talk about coaching?

Yes.

She said, no. And I'm like, what would you like for me to talk about? She said, courage. And I said, I don't know anything about courage. How can I do a keynote on courage? And she said to me, CB, you got to be kidding me. You are the most courageous person I know. And I said, okay, well, I did commit to doing this. So I sat down at my keyboard and I started inputting about courage. And all of a sudden, my fingers were flying across the keyboard. And I thought, OMG, I do know about courage. I am a walking courage box. And so that's how I— you know, they say that when you tap into your inner strength, your inner strength just flies. It develops wings and it flies. And so I called my mentor and I said, hey Howard, what, what do you think about me talking about courage? He just laughed and he said, I wondered when you were going to get there. You're so courageous. Okay, what is the universe telling me here? The university is telling me to share how do you implement courage in your life. So that's how it happened.

That is beautiful, and I thank you for sharing that initial aha moment for yourself. But now think about moments where others had that big huge aha moment and how they were impacted by it, by your courage. Can you Can you walk us through to some examples in your personal and professional life when you stood up, when you stand up and made magic happen because of your courage?

So I'll tell you 2, 3, 4. I have lots of stories. One of them, which is a serious subject, is related to diversity, equity, and inclusion. You know, I was raised by military dad. And a working mom, and they made sure to protect me against any adversity related to diversity, really. And so I grew up in la-la land, and when I had my first corporate job— oh, before that, I went into the arts. I was an interior designer, and there it's like this world of kumbaya. Everybody loves everybody. So I didn't, to my knowledge, experience lack of diversity in the spaces that I walked in until I walked into corporate America. And then it was outrageous. It was so horrible an experience that I ended up suing 2 Fortune 500 companies. And during that time, I worked for the companies. And what I experienced was being shunned by both white people and Black people. Because I was considered a disease for fighting for the rights of people of color. It was a horrible experience, and I had to continue to work there for over a year because I had to gather information. Because imagine being discriminated against and not realizing it, but you felt inside Something was wrong, and you didn't really have your parents to talk to. And so I never took notes. And my attorney said, "Uh-uh, you're gonna have to stay and take copious notes." And so day after day, I'd have to have the courage to get up, get out of bed, shower, and go to work in an environment that I was. despised. And I didn't know it. Years later, I realized how much of a toll it took on me. At that point, I was in fighting mode. And so your body just absorbs the shock of it all.

Yes.

When I look back now, I say to myself, Would I do it again? And the answer is yes, because now I see more diversity at those companies. So I guess— not I guess, that was a woman's remark. I walk the lane of courage.

Wow, that is such a powerful story, specifically as we've seen, unfortunately, even in the last few years, So much of similar elements happening with companies where courageous actions needs to be taken from leadership standpoint, and as a leader, as a powerful woman, you stepped into your power, into your courage, and your courageousness to do so. Kudos to you! And that's how we make a transformation. But if you don't mind, could you tell us your definition of courage? Because you experience. There's a lot of painful moments and how those moments really helped you to craft the message of the courage, what that is for you.

Yeah, you know, it's, it's, um, you know, there's an old expression, how do you eat an elephant? Bite by bite by bite. And I have been through some trying moments. I'll tell you another story before I answer your question. When I opened the Association of Corporate Executive Coaches As I was thinking about opening it, I called a coach, another coaching firm. It was a woman who owned it, not in this country. And I said, tell me about your experience and what do I need to do? And I was really asking her to mentor me. And I thought, since she's a coach, this would be a great conversation. She can coach me. And what she did is actually pull apart my dream and my ideas. And basically said, "Don't even bother. You're walking in my territory, and I own it." And I, and at the end of the conversation, she said to me, "I hope I was able to help you." And I had the courage to say to her, "No, you haven't." And I am so disappointed in you because you're a coach. And if this is the way you coach, I don't understand your success. So for me, the definition of courage is not something grandiose. I mean, I didn't save a child from a burning building. What I did is I spoke my truth, and to me, that's courage. Courage is A simple decision to act or not to act. That's all it is.

Wow. I love the meaning of courage that means to you, and I resonate— it resonates very well with me. And I just want to say thank you for saying that, because a lot of times we're stuck in those big, huge, grandiose things. But reality is, what do we do on a daily basis, minute by minute, when opportunity presents itself? And obviously you've had a fair share of those pain points where you could crumble, where you could lose it, where you could give up, but you chose not to. So what was going on in your head at those moments? Like in the first situation when we're showing up in Fortune 500 companies while experiencing horrible mistreatment as a woman of color and other people that are also being mistreated, as well as obviously now with women that's supposed to support supports you actually is tearing you down. How did you— how did you overcome all of that?

You know, I'm not sure I have the great big answer that somebody might have, so I'm just gonna say one word: stubborn. I am stubborn as hell. It served to work against me, but in most cases it serves to work for me. You know, I, I just believe that if you fall down, it's not really falling down, it's learning a new path. And if you believe in yourself— my expression about leaping and learning and leading is I personally take the stand of Leaping first and then figuring out where I'm going to land, because I'm never afraid that I won't be able to get back up and try again, using all of the information that I learned while I was falling. So I think that's an important part. The other part is a secret: I'm a triple scorpion. Woo hoo! You didn't mess with me because I'm going after you. Don't mess with my friends, don't mess with my loved ones, don't mess with me, you're done.

That's, that's amazing because yes, we need to be super, super careful, uh, how we do when we come too close, when we tear those boundaries, or, or when we challenge those boundaries, right?

Yes.

And I love what John said here, like, you are able to tap into your own genius. So whatever that was taking time or effort, you landed there. That was exactly what you did, tapped into your own genius. So for everybody that is watching, obviously listening to this interview around how to be courageous and why courage is so important right now, specifically, we're seeing so much toxicity and negativity in working environments. What would you advise them regardless of the role that they play?

Take the courageous step. So look at courage not as a mountain but as sand.

Wow, tell us more.

Each thing that you fail at, you learn from. It's like taking that PhD to the streets, right?

Yes.

Don't consider anything that you've done as failure. What you want to do is dissect it. So let me tell you a story. When I was younger, my dad, as you could tell from the hat up there, was in the military. He was a lieutenant colonel. And one day he invited me to come to where he was working, which was at the Pictorial Center. in Long Island, and that was where they did all the graphics for the military. And I met a man from Asia, and he was a painter, and he showed me a piece that he had done, and he said to me, what do you think? And I said, well, I don't like it. Without even thinking twice, and he looked at me and he smiled, and I thought, "Why is he smiling?" And he said to me, "CB, it's okay that you don't like it, but why?" And I said, "I don't know. I just don't like it." And he said to me. CB, never say you don't like something without being able to explain why.

Wow.

I was quite young, and that has stayed with me my entire life. And I believe that that led to great analytical skills that I use now. Because I'm always analyzing why. I am like the child that says, why is the sky blue? I am always with questions. But in truth, people are afraid to ask questions, and therefore they limit their learning and they increase the fear. So to be courageous You need to ask questions starting with yourself. Then next, starting with the action that you took or that you're taking and be able to analyze it, not be afraid of the results. Say that whatever happens, I will learn. In the workplace, the projects, being on teams, the services, that your company wants to create, they're all there for you to experience. No one will consider you a failure if you believe in what you're doing and you learn from it and you're able to express that learning and move it into a new reality.

That is beautiful. I love the lesson. And, and when you say, uh, analytics and questioning your decisions, but also helps with the thinking process, right? With that in mind, could you share with us when did you have this amazing win as a result of what you learned, what your dad installed in you and challenged you with, and by being tremendously courageous? What are the major wins? One of the wins that you had as a result stepping in and taking this Bold, bold, uh, courageous actions.

Oh, my favorite. Okay, well, I will tell you, from the companies that I sued, years later, some of those people now are part of my tribe.

Wow.

Because they understood, and once they left that company, they felt like the handcuffs were gone. And they were able to reach out. And my way of thinking is not to punish people for what they couldn't do.

Yes.

But acknowledge them for what they can do now.

Brilliant.

I will also say to you that in doing that, it allowed me to have closer relationships where I could speak the truth and they can experience what they missed as well as what they have now.

Wow. So you turned pain into tremendous gain, not only for yourself, for others, that rippled decades or years later.

Wow. Absolutely. And one of the things that I realized that I was not allowed to do at one of these companies Was to experience a coach. Other people around me who were white had an opportunity to have a coach, and later in life I said, "I'm going to find out what this coaching business is about. I want to see if this is something that I could do." Well, years later, I am probably one of the best coaches in the world. Because I understand pain, because I understand the change process. What does it take? It doesn't happen like that.

Yes.

I understand where it's coming from in the mind and in the body and what triggers can develop so that you feel like you are stuck.

Hmm.

That has to come from the heart. That has to come from experience. It comes from being stubborn. It comes from being a strategist. You have to use all of your assets that you have to support other people. One other thing, the Association of Corporate Executive Coaches is incredibly successful. We select members. You can't just apply. You can apply through somebody that's a member, but it's been one of the most beneficial and satisfying experiences in my life. I love every member of the group. They all bring this differently. If I hadn't had the experiences I had, I might not have been able to recognize the different gifts that people bring.

So yeah, go ahead.

So I'm just gonna say, yeah, um, I've been able to turn all those negative things that I've experienced into positive gain to help others and myself.

And that is such amazing different element of what courage looks like, feels like, and plays out, and, and what outcomes can be possible. reached. And I love how you tapped into coaching and what you created and how you create an amazing empire there. So do you mind sharing a little bit about how you courageously leading that platform to be successful? Because so many now executives in need of coaches, so many of them needing external consultants and support, but also they're missing something within themselves that they need to unleash. And how do you do that effectively through your courageous and your program, actually, for that matter, as an executive coach?

Wow, that's a whole bunch of questions. Okay, let me see if I can remember them all. First, in the program that I use, one of the great experiences that I had in corporate America was learning the tools to evaluate failure and success. And some of those tools, like the 5 Whys, are so incredibly useful in providing the implementation of courage. So for example, let's just take something really simple. Like, I got a ticket for speeding. Well, one of the things you can use is the 5 Whys to figure out why you received that ticket without blame.

Yes.

And when you get to the root cause of it, It allows you to have the courage to say, okay, here's where the change needs to happen. And this is an incredible process in the business world because in the business world, we often take attributes that we have in our personal lives and we bring them in the office. And one of those attributes is to blame others. If you're using something like the 5 Whys process, then you get to understand the process that's wrong and not the other person that's wrong. And that takes courage. It takes courage to break things apart. I just sent you an article for your magazine on legacy, which we're going to celebrate Women's Day.

Yes.

And what I took a look at is the imposter syndrome. Now, theoretically, everybody experiences it at some time or another. It's the situation that says, I'm not good enough to accept my ability, that particular ability at a time. And I argue that there were— there are 2 writers that— and I'm terrible at names, so I'd have to look at the article because from my research— that argue that The imposter syndrome is based upon biases. So you feel less like you have accomplished something if, for example, you're a Black person in America and have been denied the platform continuously. And my position is that with courage, You can gain that platform with courage. You can eliminate the imposter syndrome. Of course, you have to go through the 6-step process that I have.

But easier said than done, guys. You have to put some work. Absolutely.

But it's doable.

Of course.

So I think that, you know, and, and I use a lot of the tools from business Mm-hmm. So that you can implement. You know, we, we talk so much about courage in terms of this esoteric thing that we can't reach out and grab, and it only happens when we're in absolute fear, and somehow magically it appears and we solve. Yeah, that is one version of courage. Another is, for some people, it's getting up in the morning.

Mm.

Getting out of bed. There's people who experience severe depression. That's courage. Asking somebody who cannot see if you can assist them walking across the street. Hey guys, that's courage. Why? Because you could be rejected. You, you could be told by the person, no, I don't need your help. I can get across myself. Well, then you go through your life and you think, well, then I won't ask anybody else. That's not courageous. The other part is assume that the person says yes. You can both be hit by a car. So you are performing a courageous act. You have to recognize that courage comes in small packages as well as the big packages.

Love it. I love that, small and bigger packages. And sometimes the smallest little packages make most tremendous impact, don't they?

Oh, look at those little blue boxes from Tiffany with the engagement diamonds in it. That's pretty small.

Very, very true. Very, very true. So with that in mind, obviously you've been, um, leading tremendously and helping executive leaders, not only through coaching and consulting, to be more courageous. And we're seeing really a lot of challenges in current landscape. Do you mind sharing your personal experience and opinion why we're having so much problem with implementing courageous actions and being courageous as leaders? And then What would you say that needs to happen in order to change that and lead better with more courageousness, communicate more with courage as well, connect with more courage, and then with everything we do?

Okay, one question at a time. Oh my God, Isabella, it's a firecracker. Okay, let me take the first one, which is pretty global.

Why? And universal, that everybody really wants to know.

Okay, putting me on the spot here.

Nothing you don't know, nothing that you don't know, CB.

All right, let's see if I can take the first one first.

I'm here to help.

Uh, the, the whole question of why we're seeing less courage. In one way, we're seeing a lot of courage. In another way, we're seeing less courage. And I think that the 2 prominent factors right now is that the ground— we're not on terra firma. We have and we are experiencing 5 super pandemics that's shaken our ground, which we thought There was no such thing, especially in areas where you haven't experienced a volcano with the ground shaking. But in essence, now that volcano has erupted in each one of us. So we're like, oh my God, what should we do? What— how can we steady ourselves, right?

Yes.

The other area is the cancel culture, which is rampant. And so unfair. We don't have a chance now to experiment because if that cancel culture comes in and says, wrong, you're out, you're really out because we have such invasive media access. That with the click of a few buttons, it's out to Twitter, it's out to Facebook, it's out to Pinterest, it's out to Instagram, LinkedIn. You're done.

Yes.

People live in fear now of speaking their true north instead of saying, you know what, I don't agree, and I will listen.

Mm-hmm.

That is incredibly important, because if somebody's trying to say something to you about, for example, politics, and you totally disagree, that's fine, but allow the other person to speak Take a moment to digest it. Look for the gems and then speak.

Yes.

I remember when I was growing up, the coffeehouses in Lower Manhattan were very important. It was, it was so stimulating. You went and had your espresso and you sat for hours And you debated. You didn't argue. You debated back and forth. We have lost the art of debating. Well, debating gives you courage because you've learned to hear the other person. You've learned to evaluate your ideas against what the other person is saying. It does not mean That you have to change your mind, because that's not courage. If I believe in something and you believe in something and we have equal strength, the courage is to listen.

Yes, that is so powerful, CB. And I love how you contrast how— what used to be in terms of connection, human connection, in terms of Communication and listening and how all of that shifted. And I think that also attributes heavily without having the diverse inclusion in conversations and decision-making to complexity of problems that we're seeing and feeling every single day, right?

Yeah.

With that in mind—

And I just want to add one other thing. You know, we talk about the Zoom culture and how bad it is and we don't have a chance to connect. I so disagree with that. We're fortunate to have the Zoom culture because it gives you the opportunity to be a voyeur in the other person's background information. It gives you added information to bond and connect. We here have said you can't ask any personal questions in the workplace. Well, how do you start to develop that second-tier relationship if all you could talk about is work? You really can't. But if you're on Zoom and you happen to see a military hat in somebody's shelf, you can say, tell me about that.

Yeah.

You could see in the back of me, this side, I have a book on carenterias. Do you own a carenteria? No, but he owns me. You know, I mean, you know, that's a, that's a whole conversation in itself. So I think that we're missing the opportunity to get to know each other for sake of saying, oh, it's Zoom. Well, it's a cultural impact, right?

Yes.

So I think it's, it's a great connector for courage. It's great for people in the workplace to see, oh, somebody has a violin. I didn't know that you— do you play the violin? Yeah. So it gives us permission to ask those questions that we haven't been able to ask in a long time.

Yes. And also to connect on something and discover more about somebody else.

Yes.

Have those much more profound, deeper relationships, uh, specifically in time when people are struggling and have a hard time sharing as it is, right? But when we go about not only just the business and show the human nature, magic happens. With that in mind, I'm curious really, what was some of the, uh, either books or leaders that really impacted you the most? You mentioned Howard, you mentioned your dad, you mentioned, uh, obviously your upbringing, but what was that epitome or, or aha moment that changed and shifted everything for you?

I, I, you know what, I'm not sure that I had one aha moment. It's a combination of different things. I love reading Malcolm Gladwell. He is so off the charts.

Yes.

What is this man saying? And he's saying so much. Uh, I haven't read Simon Sinek. I've heard him, and this is another power-packed speaker. I love reading and listening to things that challenge my thinking, and I love asking questions. Yeah, for me, asking questions is the lifeline to courage.

Right.

I loved reading Blue Ocean Strategy because it taught me not to compete. It taught me to surpass with new thinking. Right?

Yeah.

So I remember when I opened ACEC and there was an organization that was doing everything that I was doing, but bigger because they had more money. And I called up one of my mentors and I said to her, I'm so upset, they're copying what I'm doing. And she said to me, stay the path, you'll pass.

Wow.

And so I think having— now that I think about it, having really good mentors. I remember a mentor that I had when I was in corporate America. And what I was experiencing in the chaos, and she said to me, "CB, the time to rise is during chaos." And I didn't understand it at the time, but I understand it now. I love things like there is a great book. Let me try to remember the name of it. God, I can't. The listeners will just have to write in to me. But it's about— it's about how different cultural habits really upset other cultures. And I thought— and we don't realize it's happening.

Yes. Most of the time we don't, right?

Brilliant, brilliant thinking, right? So it helps me examine, um, what is it that's just rubbing me like sandpaper?

Mm-hmm.

That I find very annoying. And I, I'll tell you what, traveling was the best lesson for me, experiencing different cultures. I remember when I was in Istanbul, and there are not many people of color in Istanbul, walking down the street, seeing the children run and hide from me and then peek around the building and say, what is that? What is that that's walking there? Is that a person?

A person?

What is that? And I would just laugh, you know. Um, and at the same time getting marriage proposals in Istanbul. So—

Okay, I need to know. Now I know where I need to go.

Absolutely. Greece is another one, you know. I love Greece. Walking down the streets, I heard a guy say, coffee, tea, or me?

Right.

In Paris, when I was walking across the Champs-Élysées, I was stopped by the police. And they said something to me, and I had my little book, and I'm looking it up. And the policeman starts laughing at me, and he takes the book from me, and he points out what he's saying. He was saying to me, you are a beautiful woman. And I thought I was going to be arrested.

Ooh la la!

So those those moments of courage, right?

Yes, as you said, courage comes in all shapes and sizes and small and big boxes. And as Dan here pointed out, also the courage is to listen, which I absolutely love as well, Dan. And it's so important to listen when we don't agree, listen when we don't understand, listen when we fear, so that we can know more and do better, right?

Absolutely. And I want to tell you, uh, Dan is an incredible, incredible coach. He has listening skills that are like Star Trek, the antennae. He comes back with such Wisdom, guys. If you don't know Dan, please connect with him on LinkedIn. Yeah.

That is, that is fantastic. Yes. And the same thing with John and everybody else that has been participating in this conversation and asking any questions or just commenting, feel free to do so. But with that in mind, um, as we were—

Oh, I just want to say one thing about John. He's new to my circle. And he is a darling. He is so smart, and he's in the midst of developing a new person for himself. And I'm watching him blossom tremendously as a member of ACEC.

Yes, I love those stories when people not only benefit but they also transform and thrive. And everybody wants to do this right now. It doesn't matter how successful you might be or how much We're in process of on the fork, trying to figure out which direction to go, what, where to turn, how to do it. What advice you will actually give to those individuals? And, and, and, and how would you tell them, where would you direct them to go in order to really self-rediscover and find that new thriving path with courage?

You know, when I was younger, I read this book You just reminded me, and it was about having your own personal board of directors.

Hmm.

And I've— since I read that book, I've always identified people that I can learn from. Don't be afraid. You, you know, you cannot know everything. Isabella, you are one of those people. I met you on Clubhouse, and I thought this woman is power-packed. I mean, there was just no doubt in my mind that I was going to get to know this woman, and that I was going to rely on her for truth and for exposing my eyes to things that I had not experienced. Isabella has been through. She has helped— I mean, real wars. And she has helped people who have been scarred by the effects of being in a war. Her work history is one that, let me tell you, I would vote for this woman for President of the United States in a heartbeat.

Thank you, Stevie.

That wisdom is kick-ass. Right? And you need to be prepared if you're going to interact with her, because boy, hold on, hold on. So I think that people, people tend to stay away from people that they can learn from. I am like first responders. I run in that direction. And when you do that, it gives you At its strength. Because you know what, we're locked in our own minds.

Yes.

And that's a danger point.

It is. A lot's going on there, doesn't it?

You have to give people the key to unlock, and you have to be willing to absorb that. Yes.

But what I love about your CV is regardless of where you are, and specifically your example what's possible, when people say, I might be, you know, I've been there, done that, or too jaded or whatever. You continue to be innovative, agile, nimble. You continue to push and challenge yourself. Basically, early adopter in everything. And early adopters are movers and shakers that are changing not only themselves but everybody around themselves. And as a result, I'm being transformed and changed in so many positive ways as well. Anybody else in Women's pack group or in ACDC. When I say ACDC, my favorite rock band, I'm like I was ready to rock it with it. But also in life and business because doesn't have to be so gloom sterile and hammered down can be also fun, creative, innovative, and light because that's what we. need in order to make your magic happen. And anybody that never had a chance to experience that, you guys are missing out. CBE is your person, and you want it to be not only connected, but you want to ask how you can be in her tribe, because that's where everything starts shifting. And I'm saying, you want quick results, you want to make magic happen, you want to take a quick action, but the right action. Don, I'm sure she challenged you. John, I'm sure you've been challenged through any other avenues you've been exposed of me. So, so my point is this: find people that you resonate with, right?

Absolutely. And don't be afraid to ask. I'll tell you, Dan is going to get embarrassed by this, but Dan and I— I don't even remember how we met. And then we were placed in a situation where there was a third party that was really interfering with the success of relationships. And Dan stood by his true north, and I had so much respect for him that later on when I needed to sell my house in New Jersey, I turned to Dan.

Wow.

Dan helped me figure out the numbers because I'm highly dyslexic and I just couldn't figure out the numbers. And my dear friend Dan Was there for me. Wow! Just don't know. Don't discount. Count.

I love how also when people we meet in business and resonate with the values, with with the same goals and objectives, with that one percent top echelon of leaders, and that walk the talk, and and and they're constantly. Bettering themselves every day, that would pull us up, right, and catapult us. How we can also benefit in personal life. How often then we want and desire to know these people, take them for lunch, get together, and also trust them with so many of our personal decisions. And I think that is one of the most beautiful things, because CB, you just broke the code if you didn't even realize. We had so much separation between personal, private life. Encourage is the glue to help us to bring all together because we cannot any longer have these compartments and sterile detachments from personal to professional. It doesn't work that way. And through every example you shared, you showed us what that looks like. Encourage is The glue. So with that in mind, what would be the last piece of advice for everybody watching and listening that really need to step more in their courageousness? What that would be?

I think there's so many closing statements I would make, but what comes to mind is recently somebody who brought me to tears. I met this gentleman through another gentleman, and I needed support in doing something professionally. And the price ticket was high, the fees, and I just said, "I would love to do it. I can't afford it." And he stepped up and he said, I'm not going to charge you because I believe in what you're doing.

Wow.

And I thought, wow. So he did it. And we— this was in a nonprofit that I'm working in, and we received a donation. And I said to him, the donation is yours. And he said, no, no, it's to help do what you're doing. And I said, and you were that help. Recently, I contacted him and I said, I need to learn how to do what you did because I have projects. Will you teach me? And he said, of course, CB. And he started to teach me and he said, you know, CB, you have paid me back so much. I have so many clients now. You were there when I was just getting started. He said, I'm going to do this for you for no charge.

Wow.

And I lost it. I lost it. Even thinking about it right now. So I would say to you that courage means asking the question and being truthful. And it means really recognizing and acknowledging those that help you because we all have an ego inside. And, and acknowledging those people that have helped you is so important to the circle.

Yes.

And don't be afraid to eliminate those that don't support the circle.

Also taking challenging decisions to do what is right and what is necessary. Sometimes, yes, one of those painful moments when things are not easy, when we need to step up and also do the hard decisions and make hard choices. All of that is courage.

Yes.

And you're doing that phenomenally and classy and elegantly. And that's the beauty. We don't have to take a person down on their knees and completely hit him over the head. We don't have to bury someone. We don't have to be vicious. We don't have to be all of those things that we're seeing also that are happening in corporate world, because behind every action and reaction, it is the human being— some more courageous, some less, some more wounded, some more in self-process of self-discovery. And as a leader that is very astute, in tune The beauty of something I just want to highlight here is meeting people where they are. And you really— at that CB, arriving to that point to recognize where their risk level is, where the level of courageousness is, and how you can walk them, as they call it, home, right? To self-discover and as a result serve and support others.

So I would leave with 2 words: pay it back and pay it forward. That is courage. And those 2 actions will help you be more courageous in the workplace and at home.

Yes.

Pay it back and pay it forward.

More of that, guys. We we had another like a few weeks ago, Kindness Day, I believe, or even last week. And and I always said pay forward today on the Kindness Day pay forward day basically. And every day we don't have to wait full year to step up and do that. Let's just do that on autopilot. And that is so brilliant. That is so so brilliant. And again in a closure for everyone eager to connect with CB that don't have a chance, as myself or Dan actually for that matter, to be part of that inner circle. Check out first of all profile, check, reach out to her on LinkedIn, check what she's been doing, what she created with ACEC, not AC/DC, and check out what she is doing with, uh, also Woman Power Pack. I mean, I can't tell you how thrilled I am also to see how powerful women can play very well with anybody, but also extremely with high power, high net worth, high intellect, um, and accomplishments women, and still make magic. That is very hard to do, and she does that flawlessly. So guys, without further ado, check all of those things. Make sure you comment and ask her about that book. What is that title about that book? And, and then start the dialoguing. Every great shift and change starts with dialogue. That's how you and I met. She showed up in my room, uh, she was brave, she raised the hand, she came on the stage, she asked the questions, and guys, rest is history. So that is what took her courage to come in the full room and board of a circle of executives in a really heated discussion during the times the last year when teams were on a lot of shaking ground for many people. And with that courageousness, look at where she's at today. You can make amazing strides in a very short period of time.

Yes, you can. But I want to add, reach out to Isabella. Isabella was named in as one of the top 50 influencers on LinkedIn. So if you haven't had a chance to read her newsletter— by the way, I have a newsletter too on coverage on LinkedIn— then you're really missing an opportunity to hear one of the brilliant minds of today.

Thank you, CB.

Drop the mic.

Absolute pleasure speaking with you, and I cannot wait to have follow-up conversations. And thank you for enlightening us about the courage.

My pleasure, Isabella. I knew this was going to be an amazing interview. I was nervous, I will admit to everybody, because I thought, I don't know what she's going to come up with. I'm so honored to have you interview me. And I just look forward to other projects that we're going to work on together. I want to acknowledge that you're coming out with a special issue of Legacy Leaders for Women's Day. When will that be out, Isabella?

It's going to be the Saturday prior to Women's Day. I believe it's 8th— I'm sorry, 6th or 7th of March, where I will be highlighting Woman Pack that actually CB created and Powerful Woman and their perspective what Women's Day and what about women we need to be reminded of in order to work more effectively together.

Yeah, I don't even know what to say to end this because it's just the beginning.

Yes, it is.

I, I want to have every single woman that's part of the Power Pack on my show, and I want to interview them and have them interview me. And have— and by the way, I should mention that we do have one man that's part of the Power Pack.

I don't know how that happened, but we allowed one man only. He must be Superman.

We have Howard Morgan, who is a phenomenal man, who is a huge supporter of women in business. And he just said to me, CB, I want in on this. I thought, you got it. Maybe more than what he asked for, but I guess we'll find out soon.

But the best part for everyone is How we play together and contribute and support and how we show up. That is what matters, right?

Yes, absolutely. Hey guys, I know we're a little bit over time, but we started a little late and I just have to say to you, come back next Tuesday for another great, great episode of Courage. Talk to you soon. Have a great week.

Bye. Bye, everyone.