CB LIVE: Courage to Leap and Lead with Hortense le Gentil, Episode 86

Hello everybody. Well, it's Tuesday and you know on Tuesdays what you must do is tune in to CB Bowman Live. And you know by now our platform for this year is courage. And I have to tell you, first of all, you know I have to be transparent. Hortense is one of my sisters as part of MG100. And she had to have courage to come on this show because English is her second language. So you're going to hear a beautiful French accent, and it'll be charming when she stops to try to figure out, how do you say this word in English? So I know You all are going to write in and help her, right? So we will have a wonderful, wonderful multicultural show. Well, actually, it's even more than— how do you say— triple culture, because, you know, just in case you haven't noticed, I'm bringing you the beautiful Black, right?

I just love it. I just love it. I just love your color. I'm jealous.

And of course, today is International Women's Day. So isn't it fitting that we have international and a woman on today? So we're going to find out the secret life of Hortense, all about the things that she went through that displayed ultimate courage. And guess what? She's written a book or two. And so we're going to ask her to show it, and we're going to talk a little bit about the book too. So we're going to kill multiple stones here at the same time. So let's get started. Okay. But oh, you know, before we get started, I have to ask you to please remember to go to your favorite podcast because After you see this, you know, it gets blasted out. Let me see if I can remember all the places. Stitches— Stitcher, Amazon, iHeart, iTunes, Spotify, Facebook, and YouTube.

Whoa.

In addition to LinkedIn, of course. You know, LinkedIn is our fave, right?

Right.

So please write in, put your comments, put your ratings, and that will allow us to continue this wonderful program. Okay, so look for it under CB Live Courage or CB Live Challenges of the C-Suite. It's all the same. Okay, and it's Courage to Leap and Lead. So with that, we are going to start with Hortense. Hortense, introduce yourself.

CB, you know, I am so delighted to be here today with you, I have to say. So thank you, my sister, you know, to, uh, for having me today. And it's a special day. Yeah, so happy Women's Day. International Women's Day to all the women that are listening to us today and to you, CB.

For sure. Thank you. Let's jump right in. First, let's talk about your book. Show us your book.

My book is here. Can you see it?

Yes, perfect. Connecting Your True Self with the Leader You're Meant to Be. Is it written specifically for women?

No, for everyone. Absolutely, absolutely everyone. Uh, everyone. So leader in the organization, but I consider everyone to be a leader because you are the leader of your life. So, uh, I wrote this book, uh, ready for a large, uh, audience, and I hope— and I know that it's helped a lot of women, and I'm so happy for that. And, um, yeah, so this is really— this, um, the book is all about— it's 3 parts in the book. There is, you know, meet yourself, meet your potential, and, uh, and meet the leader you're meant to be, you want to be. And, um, so, and it's, it's a guide, and you, you have questions. It's not a long book, but it's It's more like a playbook to be aligned. What are your values? Who are you? Who are you really? And how to be yourself, the best version of yourself.

So you said 3 parts. Okay, so let's do 3 parts. 3 parts or 2 parts?

3 parts. 3 parts.

Okay, so the first one, Meet your potential.

Meet yourself. Meet yourself.

Yourself. Okay, so what does that mean, meet yourself? I have to look in the mirror every morning and say, CB, this is you? Because that would be horrible.

You know, I love that. Meet yourself, um, is really to think deeply And truly, uh, on who you really are. What are your values? What do you value? What drives you? What is unique in yourself? Because I'm a, I'm a great believer of we all are our own talent, something special. Uh, it doesn't have to be big, but we have something special, uh, It's this place where we feel good, we feel aligned. Oh, this is exactly what I love, and this is exactly what I should do because I'm good at that.

It's, you know— I want to tell you this story because it's really what you're talking about, and your book is on my shelf in back of me. Um, when, for When the killing of Floyd happened, I said to myself, you have been on the forefront of diversity, equity, inclusion long before it became the current vogue. Because I was one of the people that took on 2 major Fortune 500 companies, and sued them for discrimination. And so I thought, now is the time for me to speak out. This is, this is what I'm about. Here's the interesting thing that happened on that journey. It was the time, but it wasn't my calling, which I think are two different things that have to be aligned, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, I had been through that journey and I thought it was going to be my calling. Then a colleague of mine called me and said, and many people know this story, CB, I want you to be the keynote at a conference I'm having. I said, oh, great. Yes, of course. Do you want me to speak about diversity, equity, inclusion? She said, no. This is in Spain. I said, oh, right, cultural difference. You want me to talk about executive coaching? She said, no, this is a coaching organization. I said, well, I know that. We're compadres. You're in Spain and I'm here in the United States and we both have coaching organizations. She said, I want you to talk about courage. I said, I don't know anything about courage. Why are you asking me? And she said, CB, you're the most courageous person that I know. And I said, okay, I promised you. And I sat at my computer and I'm going, courage. And then my fingers started going like this. I was aligned.

Exactly.

With where My deep inner core is, I know exactly what you're saying.

Yeah, I can feel it. It resonates so much with me. It's exactly, exactly that. It's really when you, at one point, you, we understand and we said, oh, I am, I am the right person at the right moment for the right, right things. And you're here and you feel like everything is easy. The door open, as you say, you can find the word very, very easily. You feel comfortable, you feel everything. And this is that moment. So I love to explain this feeling as you're feeling you are in the zone.

Yes, yes.

Right, right.

And we have another word Which is called synchronicity. Is it French or is it—

It's the same word.

It's the same word. Yeah. So it's multicultural. And yes, you're right, because this morning I made my first cold call ever to become a keynote speaker. And I thought, I've been putting this off for a couple of months because I thought, I just, I am not good at sales. I'm horrible at it. And everybody's always said to me, CB, you're so good at sales. I said, yeah, but when I believe in something. Hortense, can I just tell you, that cold call was like clockwork. It was perfect. We bonded. We actually started laughing together. Oh, that's wonderful. And she said, I can't wait to get your material. And I'm thinking, Synchronicity just happened. What just happened?

This is that. This is exactly that. And, and it changed everything, right?

Yes. The energy was so—

Energy, energy change. Everything changed. You are yourself. You don't pretend to be someone else, you know, at that, you know, you are already yourself. And you understand, for me it was really that moment also, my first client, uh, because I had different— a lot of, you know, lives before. So I took the scenic road to come to my calling. And but it was like a decade ago, almost a decade, less than a decade ago when I met my, uh, my first client.

Mm-hmm.

I can tell you I was nervous. So you could, you could, you know, imagine me in my car in Paris. I was very nervous and, okay, I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. But I was not sure, you know, that it was my calling or whatever it was. Well, it's a long story, but I can share later.

No, I love it.

Yeah, you love it. Okay. So, so I was an entrepreneur at that time for 10 years, and I felt that I was not aligned again because it was the third. I changed life 3 times for my career, in my career.

Yes, yes.

And, uh, and so, um, I just arrived after 10 years of being an entrepreneur that I just love to be an entrepreneur, by the way, but it was in the difficult, in the, um, industry, uh, so it was still recycling. So it was, it was hard and it was a, a world of men and it was hard. It was okay, but it was hard. But I felt, I'm sure you already felt that, you know, that, okay, I think I am done here and I should do something else.

Yes.

But, uh, right. So I'm sure you had that and I said, oh yes, yes. But again, to change, to change everything. And you are here and, okay, you, you know, you know that feeling.

Yes.

But you take your time because— Yeah.

Never stop. Not again.

Not again. I'm not going to change everything again. But it was obvious. It was absolutely obvious. I knew it. I felt it. You know, I felt it in my body. And, uh, so at one point, a friend of mine, uh, told me, you know, you should be a coach, an executive coach, because everyone just loves to ask you questions and you're just enjoying it. I look at him and I said, not sure. I don't know what is an executive coach. But I knew, I mean, but I meant I am an entrepreneur, so I'm not sure. But he told me, okay, but I have a friend who needs you, and I know that you can help him. He's an entrepreneur also. And I said, oh, of course I'm going to help him. This is not a problem. Okay. So, and he told me, try, try to, you know, try to put yourself in, um, in this, you know, suit, you know, coaching suit. So I played the role. I didn't tell my first client that it was my first client because in fact, I, you know, I just came in and said, okay, let's see what's happened. Anyway, I'm going to talk, so we'll see. We'll see if I can help. And so I was there in my car, a little nervous, and just, you know, and I came in and he was there, very nice. And CB, after half an hour of talking, I felt in my body everywhere completely aligned in that zone. And I felt like, oh my gosh, I am 100% myself. I can help. It is so easy for me. Like, you know, very easy. I could see things that he didn't. I could have felt it.

Yes.

And I said, Wow, all my life now, you know, it's like a puzzle, everything put together, and you understand it was a meaning. You find meanings in all your life, you know, all the situation, difficulty situation, or good situation, by the way. But you understand there, and you see the whole picture and say, and say, oh, this is who I meant to be. I am here.

Wow.

So you are very happy because you find it. And even if I had to change everything again, but it was easy. And I increased my confidence and I work a lot on, you know, different things, you know, to be, you know, really the, the coach, the executive coach that I wanted to be.

Mm-hmm.

Not, you know, trying to be like everyone, blah, blah, blah. No, my specificity. I think comes from, from me, my life, you know, and what I learned. And that's all. And be myself is okay sometimes, uh, you know, people like me or not, it's okay, you know. I am who I am. I am not another person, and I'm not going to pretend to be somewhere else. That's all.

You know, what you said is so powerful. So powerful because— so first, everybody who's listening knows that I'm the CEO of the Association of Corporate Executive Coaches. One of the things, and we don't admit a lot of people in, one of the things we look for is, are you bringing yourself to the coaching or are you bringing a prescribed set of competencies that you have no relationship to. Because everybody in my organization, they believe that you have to be an enterprise-wide business partner. You cannot do that if you're opening the book every day to make sure that you're following the rules of competency. You have to speak from your life experiences the way that you have, and not every client's going to be the best for you. And so sometimes you have to fire a client, right?

I had.

See the concept? We could fire a client, right?

Yeah, yeah. And, and I'm sure you, you had this experience also, um, especially when I was— so now I'm living in, in New York But before, I was— I lived in Paris. It was— I was in France. And I began my coaching program was, you know, I began everything in France.

Let's not discuss Paris because my mind is huge, you know. And then now those croissants.

Oh no, the croissant and the baguette.

The baguette is coming, you know, through the sea to my house.

The baguette, especially the baguette, you know.

Oh, yes.

I know that. I know that. When I was, when I was pregnant, you know, I couldn't, you know, go to the bakery because I wanted to eat everything. Every baguette. And, you know, I smelled, you know, these baguettes. Oh, I'm going to die.

For me, it's the pain au chocolat because there's no place. I don't know what kind of chocolate they put in there, but there's no place that tastes like that chocolate. That's true.

That's true.

Anyway, getting back to this, I also want to tell you Carolyn, a dear friend, wrote in and said, hello CB and Hortense, it is hard being courageous, but we do what we must. Love this topic. Thank you, Carolyn.

Thank you. Yeah, thank you, Carolyn.

So what happened to your first client? How successful were they?

Oh, so my first client was very successful, very, very, very successful. And I'm still, you know, I'm still talking to him and, and time to time working with him. And I'm so proud of him. He did a great, great job. And I never told him that he was my first client, but, but Yeah, he did very well. He was, he is, he's an entrepreneur, very smart person, very right brain, very emotional. And so he had great vision. I can tell you his vision are absolutely amazing. But he had this difficulty to, how can I communicate my vision to people?

Yeah.

He felt like he was a bit alone and in the middle of the world with, you know, left-brain people who were coming from, you know, very, very educated from high school, very big school, blah, blah, blah. He had this little complex of not being graduated from high— very, very— he was graduated, he was educated, but not from HBS.

Let's say, let's say.

Um, and I saw, um, I see a lot of, you know, very often in fact, it's, it's a problem sometimes because they feel, um, they feel, you know, under others because they didn't— they think that they didn't do the right thing. And that's so false. This is not true. This is not true at all. So, so we work on that, on how do we himself, and himself was great, except, you know, that he had so much talent and he was different from others. And I— we work also on how he can be the leader that he meant to be and he wanted to be. So how we want to lead, you know, how we want to show up with, with his team and what's going to happen if you do that and things like that. So we work a long time, years on that, on being, you know, ready as a person is going to be. And I can tell you that now it is an amazing place.

And it's surprising to me— I hate to interrupt you, but it's so exciting what you're talking about. It's surprising to me, first of all, you know, when we talk about this situation with women, we put this label on it called the imposter syndrome. Right? And it's surprising to me how many men also suffer from this. And it's also very surprising to me, but it's really not, that if people, as you mentioned in your book, if you get to your authentic self, you can lead much better.

Mm-hmm.

Right? Because then you don't have to worry about matching yourself to what's in a book what somebody else tells you, what your parents tell you. You then bring out your own strengths and then figure out how to commute those strengths in a way that's going to be positive to other people. You don't start with changing yourself when you are authentic.

Absolutely. And CB, when you think about it, it takes so much energy and hurts so much to be someone that you are not. And try, you know, I am a big believer. My, one of my fights in life is you don't have to enter in a box. No, I was not that kind of person. I am not, and I'm going to die no box. You can ask my friends and everybody that I cannot, I cannot, you know, I, you cannot breathe, you cannot be yourself. So just be yourself, but it's be free yourself. And, uh, it's this freedom. When you come somewhere with your full self, you come also with your heart.

Yes.

With your soul, uh, with your body, with— and with your mind, of course, and your, your mindset, your spirit. But it's all, you know, a whole person. And if you allow yourself to be yourself, and it's okay, you authorize yourself to be yourself, everything can happen.

I like that. And you're not fighting, right? Yes. Authorize yourself to be yourself. What great words. So powerful.

This is what I think and also what I encourage everyone to do because, okay, you have to face some fears and we need courage to do that. Of course you need courage, a lot of courage. But this is so unbelievable, you know, the change when you're yourself. And when you are not yourself, you are fighting. You are fighting inside and here and here. And so this is how we get sick.

Hmm.

And this is how we, you know, something, you know, wrong is happening. You are exhausted. It's because you are fighting. When we are fighting and fighting and fighting, you are not yourself. You put your energy in the wrong direction.

Yeah.

Can you imagine if you put all the energy that you put to be someone else into being yourself? Wow. And take care of yourself and accept yourself, authorize. But that's why the book, the first part is Meet Yourself, because you have to do this journey.

Yes.

It's not like— I don't think that we wake up in the morning and say, oh, I know why I am. No, it's a journey. We have to ask some questions. So this is something that I do in my coaching, but you can do with the book, but you can do with a spiritual leader, you can do with who you want. But, you know, this journey of, you know, what is important, what drives me, what kind of leader I want to be, how I want to be remembered, you know, all that part. And Takes time. And at one point, you know your driver, you know why you're here, and you say, okay, so now I have my true north. It's my alignment, my true north. I know the vision is here. I'm always going to do what I feel like I should not— because you, you don't identify it. And when you're, when you're here, after, you can meet your potential because You are the best version of yourself. You can open, you can open up, you can be yourself. Don't be afraid.

It's okay. What causes people to be so afraid, do you think, to be themselves? What's behind it? Why don't they have the courage to be who they are?

I think the first thing is our education. We were, we were told to do that. That is right. That is, you know, how a woman should rise. This is how you should live. This is in your education also at school. This is— you are clever, you are smart if you do that or that. All about, you know, left side and everything. So we all have an image. Uh, and this image is not our image. It's not our picture of the, you know, the leader or the person we want to be. It's a picture that others want for us. So very often it's— very often it's— it, it, of course, is, it's not a bad thing because you have to, to grow up. And when your parents say, so you should, you should, I don't know, be a doctor, for example, Because you are a family from doctor and you don't want to be doctor, you know how hard it is to tell them, oh, I'm going to be an actor.

Hey, yes.

And, and this is difficult. This is difficult for the parents because they don't understand and they say, oh, I failed. This is difficult for the person because they know they, they're afraid and they, they don't want to disappoint someone. And so I take this example, but, and you have, you know, the same with, with the same example with, for example, the education. We are talking a lot today and about being a human leader. So this is my second book, I'm working on that. But being human is showing vulnerability.

Yes, for sure.

And we have to deal with emotions. This is what we learned from the pandemic. So those emotions, for example, we were told that it doesn't— emotions don't belong to the corporate arena. This is one of my clients that told me that.

Yeah, guess what? And then COVID came. Yeah, that's why.

That's why. So you know how things could change like that? now they need, you know, our leaders, and we need courage to face that. So how can we do that, uh, to be human, to show emotion? So, so this is, you know, I think it's, yeah, it's our environment who shaped us. And this is good because we need, you know, it's like flowers, we need, we need a tutor, we need something to grow up, right? If you don't have any, anything, you cannot grow up anyway. So at one point you have to have these tutors and, and grew up like that.

Yes. Yeah. But the question becomes, when does the tutor take over your inner self and you need to self-correct? Right.

Yeah. So when— it's because when you feel you cannot breathe anymore, you feel like you're not yourself, and, and you do something, or you do things that you don't like. You don't like. And you are—

You don't feel it.

Yeah, you don't feel it. You feel like it's not right. Because we know that. We are never listening to our intuition. We know that. It's like children. Do you think that the children doesn't know when he did something wrong?

Of course. Of course, you know, I didn't take the cookies. And meantime, they're all over the floor.

Oh, I didn't do anything. So we know, we know what is right and wrong for us, for us. And after, you know, if what is good for us, right for us, doesn't match with your environment Maybe your partners, uh, maybe, you know, your, your children, maybe your, your mentor, maybe— I don't know— but all our environment. This is when you need a lot of courage, courage to tell them, and after to try. Because imagine if you fail, they are going to tell you, huh, I told you.

I, I love that you brought that in because In my work now, the courage to leap and lead, that's one of the things that I put such emphasis on, the word failure. It's really— if I had a magic wand, I would erase that from our language, from our dictionaries, because there's no such thing as failure.

Mm-hmm.

There's only new learning.

True.

Right? And so if we take, for example, you, you said you had, you know, multiple careers before you found your heart. The fact is those multiple careers gave you information to help your clients from your heart, right? It's not like you have to imagine something And the results, you know already because you've walked in their shoes. So important. But now we talked about the first one, be yourself. Tell me the next one.

The potential. Meet your potential. Okay, meet your potential. So meet your potential is when we are absolutely clear on our values with true north and everything. So now Try it.

Yeah, go for it.

Yes. And yeah, go for it, and you will see everything is going to change because it's magic. It's magic if you are yourself. You know, it's like this— I like to take this metaphor with a surfer. You know, when you take, you know, you're a surfer and you take, you know, the perfect wave, you You are here.

Wow.

And it's like you're flying. Everything is, you know, is, is doing right. It's, it's great. It's, it's wonderful. You are happy. You're, you're, you are, you're feeling good. And you are feeling the power. This good power, not the power that we don't, we don't like, but the very— the power, the power of changing people, the power of being yourself. All that kind of power. And so this is the second part. This is, okay, so we try now. Okay, we try and we see, oh, here I did great, or here I need help, or here I, you know, and you adjust. Like with my horses, I am a big, I just love horses. I was surrounded by horses when I was young. And I was a competitor, a show jumper.

Wow.

And this is exactly the same. This is, you know, when you're here and you adjust before, you know, the jump, because imagine you have an obstacle there, you are on your horse and you're just there 3 steps before, you don't move. So you have to adjust, you have to adjust before to be at the right place before the jump. And when you jump, you feel this, you know, gosh, I'm flying. I'm here with my horse and I did it well. Everything is going well. So this is, this is a sensation to be alive.

I love that. I never thought about that. You know, I should have known that you're a horsewoman from your build. Yes. Okay. I knew that. So I won't tell you this story about one time I was riding and I was riding with my boyfriend and we were riding on the beach, which, you know, to me was like one of the most romantic things to do, except his horse did not like my horse and he went to kick him. And instead of landing on the horse, it landed on my leg.

Oh, sorry. It hurts.

Okay, so my courage learning was make sure that when you're riding with somebody, the horses like each other.

That's a good point. That's a good point. That's a good point because you know what is great with horses is, it's, you know, they're acting, they feel everything. So you have to be connected with your horse. So, so yeah, so, and I can imagine that different horses, of course. But when you are in the beach and everything, yeah, it's crazy to have 2 horses who doesn't like— who don't like each other.

The doctor that treated me, he must have thought he was treating another horse. So he put ligaments on my leg, and it's— my leg still had sand on it. And so he's rubbing it in, and I thought, I am seeing Stars in all colors that I never knew existed.

Oh my God, I'm sorry for laughing.

I was coming back home the next day, so I had to get on the plane. Okay, that was really one of the last times that I rode a horse.

You should try again. They are not all like that. Come with me, we're going to ride horses together.

When I come to New York, we'll go to Central Park and we'll go riding.

Absolutely. I say hi to the horse in Central Park every day. I say hi.

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Okay. What's number 3?

So number 3 is now that, okay, so you meet yourself, you know who you are, your drivers, your values, that you understood your potential, what you can do as a leader. How do you align that, who you are, your values, with your team and your organization? How do you align the purpose of the organization with your purpose? And how do you make, you know, all your organization— I call that the alignment of alignments with the S because everyone—

Your computer froze. You call it alignment, or— and?

The alignment of alignments, with the S.

Okay.

Because you have your alignment, but each person in your organizations, in your team, has to be aligned also. It had to be the same, you know. Give them the, the opportunity as a leader to think about it.

But if your alignment is based on your values, are you then saying that everybody in the organization has to have the same values as you to be aligned?

Let's say that they have to share. I think sharing at least one of the values, maybe not all, but we are— you know, we are all in the same boat. The captain has his vision, has his driver, and he wants, you know, to, uh, I don't know, to make, uh, um, dream again everyone, uh, in, in the, in the organization, because this is what drives him. For example, if you take Ralph Lauren, for example, I don't remember exactly, you know, how he did that, but it's through dreams that, you know, it can create a new, a new, a new home, I think, of our new life, something like that.

Right.

It's not exactly that, but something like that. And so it's how you, you make them, you make, you know, the people in your, in your teams be aligned with that. So this is all about listening to them and ask them to share stories. Who are you and what is your dream? Oh, my dream is, you know, to buy a biggest house for my, my kids, or whatever it is. So, and after, as a leader and in the company, you ask yourself, okay, how can we do, as an, you know, as an organization, how can we help you to do that?

Mm-hmm.

So maybe, maybe it's a career, it's a planned career, or maybe, I don't know, something else. But it's all a question of listen.

Listening.

Yeah, listen to everyone, understand what drives them, what gives them energy, why they are here, and try to transform, try to transform, you know, the situation where I have to go to work because we all need money. to, I just love to work and I just love to come to work because I know that, you know, every day I'm, you know, putting my shoes in the organization to reach my dream. For example, you know, to have another, another house. It's very different when you wake up in the morning and you say, oh, I'm going to go there because I know that I can achieve my dream. Then, you know, I got to go there because I need, I need this money to work. Money, of course we need money. I'm not going to say that we don't need and it's not important, not at all. This is not what I'm saying. But then what I'm saying is we need a higher purpose, higher purpose, higher goal.

Yeah.

And, and each one, we are different, so each one has a, a different one. But of course At the reverse, if you are in a company or with a leader that you absolutely don't share the values for a reason or another, I think you should think about it and don't stay there because this is very important.

Well, now you're leading to what we're dealing with, which is the great resignation.

Yeah. D'accord?

You know, companies have taken advantage of people. I'm not saying that they all meant to, but if you don't pay attention to the people, you don't have to agree, but at least listen and respect, then you have no reason to stay.

Right.

But money. And then that starts to, as you're saying, it starts to go down, down, down. And then the work becomes down, down, down. But now people, instead of letting their work go down, which then is tied to how they feel about themselves, they'll say, you know what? I'm out of here.

Hmm.

I'm going to go someplace else and find a place where I can be respected for how I think. It doesn't say that you have to have the same values. I think what you're saying, it doesn't say you have to have the same values as your boss or your company, but your values have to be respected within that mix. They have to be heard within that mix. No?

Yes. Yes. And somewhere too much also, because, you know, they cannot understand you if you don't share the same value.

Yes, absolutely.

We have to be true, you know, it's the truth. Uh, you know, if you don't share the same values— when we say values, it's not, you know, each, you know, things is important, but it's, it's a spirit, you know. If we, you know, we know what I mean. It's, it's not, uh, about, you know, values like— it's a spirit. Uh, for me, for example, uh, my driver is to help people, uh, to become the person they're meant to be. So this is my driver, and this is what I believe. And this is, um, you know, all my coaches or the person that I can try to help, this is, this is what I, I try to do. I try to unlock them to make themselves, you know, be the best version of themselves. I say, hey, go, go now, go. And if you don't believe that, if you not agree with me and say, no, What is she doing? I cannot understand you, or maybe I can understand, but I mean, there is no communication. There is nothing good here.

I think maybe people confuse your personal values with the organizational values.

But that's too much.

Yeah, it can be different. Your personal values can be, it's important to me to take care of my family. Financially. Your organization values could be employees don't steal from a company. They're not not aligned. They are aligned, but they're different.

Yes. I understand. I think, okay, maybe it's a question of word, but I understand what you mean. Let's say that maybe in the company, in the organization, it's more about the purpose.

Yes. Don't think—

don't talk about values. Maybe it's purpose. It's a purpose of the company.

Why?

What do you want to do as a company? What message? How you want to help the world? You know, and it's not a question of, you know, nice world or no world. And this is what leadership is about, is okay, believe it. What is important? So, and this is when if we go back, you know, to to the leader, when he knows or she knows, when the leader knows, no, sorry, knows, knows, whatever. And doesn't matter.

We get it.

We understand. When the leader good, Trivia. So when the leader the leader knows, you know, what is important. for him, her. We know the road and we know how, you know, what to do in the organization. And the purpose of the organization has to match your value.

That's right.

It's a question of words. Yeah. So this is what I wanted to say. And it's really that. And the third part of the book is, you know, it's really how you can do that, and it's by exactly what you said and what you're fighting for. It's listening, be there, not being the smartest person in the room. Well, absolutely don't mind that because the leader role change. The real— the leader has to have this vision. So he's, you know, back to the captain, you know, he's the captain of this boat. The captain, we're waiting for the captain that he can have the vision. The north is here. It's our purpose and the why, what we are going to do as an organization for others to make, you know, better life to others. So, okay, this is it. And in the boat, you have a crew. It's a team. And each person in the crew has to understand that they are listened to, they have to be be heard, important what they're doing. Without you, we cannot do it. And, uh, and, and, and listen, important and respected. And this is all the values are here.

So it's—

and, and this is a role, the, the new, new role. I know though it's new because I, I was telling the same, you know, before COVID but this is the role of Of the leader of today and tomorrow. This is not having all the answer because you cannot. We are in the storm. So okay, you navigate. We are you know in this in this boat and a wave arrives. Ah ha! How can you do that? Okay, let's figure out all together how we can face, how we can face a new a new war, how we can face you know a pandemic. How we can face all this suffering, this emotion and everything.

But Hortense, is it too late for leaders? Because shouldn't we have figured this out way before, that it's important to listen, it's important to respect, it's important— I mean, why is this new information for leaders? What happened?

I think it's the trigger. The trigger is the pandemic.

But why?

Because, because, because, okay, go back to 2 years ago. We realized that the world could change, close in one week. In a heartbeat.

Yes.

Right. So we couldn't imagine before, right? It was not possible. Nobody, nobody was thinking about that.

But boy, you know, they had something that was very prominent before in companies called research. And research really prepared you for all kinds of scenarios. I want to know what happened, in your opinion, between the days of research And COVID. Did we just— did everybody just fall off the earth? Did we go in a zone where we were just not paying attention?

Yeah, I think we— I don't know, you know, I just try something. But I think that maybe it's because we didn't connect. So, you know, it's always the same story. You have the theory. In theory, we are very smart. And let's have, you know, the real life. Oh, it's happened. Oh my gosh, where is my playbook? I don't know. You know, there is something like that. There is, you know, this is like my right and left brain. I just love, you know, that because it's really something like you cannot imagine. It's, it's like the war today. You cannot imagine. You cannot imagine that, you know, that's— those things are going to happen again. So, so this is difficult, but we all We went through that, all, all, all of us and the leaders and, you know, the family, every, every, everyone. So I think it changed everything because we cannot say that. We cannot say that now today we are the same person that we were 2 years ago. Of course.

You know, when, when I walked into the stores during the pandemic, even my beloved Costco, Right? And I saw empty shelves. It was a shock. It reminded me of my days in Cuba where you go in and you see nothing on the shelves. And I was stunned when I saw that.

Hmm.

That's why it's so important for us to travel. And then it was here on my ground. I thought, I better hold on. This is kind of scary.

This is scary. This is scary.

We can't imagine it even when we can see it in other countries.

No, we can't imagine it because it's always same story. It doesn't— it's not going to happen to me. You know, something wrong is happening to someone and you say, oh, it's not going to happen to me.

Of course.

So we, we just realized that, and so we changed. We were locked down and we discovered again that we are just human. And our leader, you know, had to do, you know, to deal with emotion, with other— take care of their teams, of the customer, all the shareholders. How you do that? And they did a great job, you know, for most of them. And, you know, how you do that? And now, you know, it's, it's the same because those person, when we are locked down, you discover new things on yourself. Maybe you discover something you don't like in yourself, or you discover nice things like, oh, I didn't— so I didn't see my, my son growing up. This is great to be around because you were on the plane all, all the time. So you don't want to go back. back to that moment because you understand. This is why there is a great resignation, I think, because you understand now what is important for you and you don't want to deal with that. Because we understand that the world, our— and our life is ephemeral. We're going to die. We know that, right? Die is part of life. So we know that. But now with what happened, it's brutal. And it's a wake-up call and say, hey, oh, what is important for you? Is it to win, you know, a lot of money? Or is it to take care of your family? And you can do both. I don't, I don't say that you don't have to travel, whatever it is.

But I mean that, which is absolutely seeing it and understanding and make a conscious decision.

Yeah, because we We had to feel it.

Can you hear me?

Yes. Okay. We have to, because we felt it. We felt it, we saw it, we understood it. It's our own alignment. So, and so, you know, our young generation, our Z generation, and, you know, they were like that. I don't want to do anything without meaning. I don't want to work there if I'm not here. If I'm not respected, I, you know, we know, we knew that for, for a long time. So now it's not a generation, it's a universal change.

Yes.

And this is why, you know, our leader has to change and to integrate that and being this human leader that we need and understand that we are all in the same ship and it's all together. So make, make the space for others, for your teams to speak, to be listened to, to be respected, to do something about it.

But here's the thing that worries me. It seems it's like being pregnant. Pain you experience while you're pregnant, the minute the baby's out, the pain is forgotten. I worry, and I think the Great Resignation is evidence of this, that our leaders are forgetting fast. You know, when I see things like, um, I don't remember what I was reading, but something that was saying, okay, we're— it's time now, we're going back to the office. Oh yeah. Now I could say as a courage consultant, okay, that leader made a courageous decision because now they're going to be dealing with maybe losing 50% of their workforce. But they're believing that being in the office is going to produce more. When in fact, we have the data that says when people work from home, the company actually produces more. But in their heads, they can't develop the elastic to stretch to say, maybe it's a new world. I don't have to bring everybody. We don't have to have kumbaya all the time.

No.

So what do you say to those leaders who experienced it, understood it, but are snapping back into the old I think it's a question of fear.

They're afraid. So you have 2 kinds of persons. You have the person who can feel the fear but do it anyway. So they know they had to do it because there is no choice, CB. There is no choice. People, you know, people change, the mindset changes. So if you don't change, it's not going to work anymore. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Yeah.

And, uh, because we are all, you know, it's not a question of just this population, you know, living in New York in this area. No, no, no, it's, it's, it's a world thing. So, so I think you don't have the choice. So you have that part of Some leaders will understand in the left brain, but they don't— they are very afraid to do it. So they say that they are not going to do it, but, you know, in fact, they have to, you know, feel the fear and do it anyway. So with help, because you need help, because we don't know, we don't have the playbook to do it. And on the other hand, and I think this is the majority of leaders that I see, is really, we understood it, we got it, and we're going to do it. The only thing is we need help to do it.

And that I respect.

Yeah. And that is absolutely okay. Again, we don't have the playbook and we are all in the same boat and we are going to try to help each other. But, you know, this is, and this is what I'm doing with my clients and And, and my husband, when I'm working with him on that subject. And, um, we see great things, CB, great things, you know, leaders who understood that and have this vulnerability to be here and say, okay, I'm afraid, I cannot fix it, I don't know how to fix it. I was, you know, I was taught to fix, but my gosh, you know, how fix— how can we fix that? And the answer is you cannot fix emotions. Don't try to fix. It's not the same mindset. It's now this right part of your brain. It's your emotions, how you connect with others, and again, how you to make this, you know, safe environment where you can unleash, you know, the human magic and, uh, and, and be yourself, be aligned, and be well. Of course, it's not in one day, and it's not that easy that we say It's a process. And anyways, your alignment is also a journey. It's a process. Sometimes it's easier than others. But the question is, what is important? The true north. Do you believe in that? Do you want to do that or not as a leader? Because you have the power to do it.

Is there an opportunity for followers to help the leaders remember and get there and stay there? Is there that opportunity?

I think so. I think so, because, uh, that, you know, it's always same story. I think everything begins by yourself. If yourself as a person, as a leader, you are so afraid That you cannot show up and ask for help. Nobody can do anything for you, CB. Of course. So if you are at the contrary, it's the cannibal who just arrived and say, "Oh, I need help. Could you help me? You know my followers. I need you." I'm sure that everyone is going to help you.

Yes.

But it's not easy to say that.

No. Especially when you— when—

yeah.

Courage.

Courage.

Incredible courage.

Courage.

And I believe that kind of courage becomes easier the more you're aligned with yourself and you know you have an inner strength. If you believe that you have a weakness, you'll never get to that courage point. You have to be aligned first, and then the courage comes flowing in because you know no one is going to shake—

Yeah.

That courage.

Yeah.

That alignment.

Yeah, yeah. Because you, you know that is the right thing to do for you. Yeah. Is it the right thing for you to do? Nothing— I think nothing can stop you.

I agree.

And, um, I'm sure you have a lot of occasion to, uh, uh, to do it and a lot of experience with that. But when we think something and we say, I know this is the right way to go to do it, I know that you don't agree, but I know that is the right way to do it. On my concern, you know, I do it, you know, whatever what's happened, because I know it's the right way and you follow me. Who loves me follow me.

If you don't, don't follow me. Oh my God, you're so French. Is it a French thing? I don't think so. I love it. I am so disappointed we're out of time. Oh my God, I say this to all my guests, but we— you have to come back because we love your examples of courage, and I want to talk so more about it. I mean, I had no idea we were going to spend an hour talking about your amazing book. Please show it again.

Oh, thank you.

Gosh, it's fabulous. And I think your next book is How to Align Once You're Misaligned.

The next book is Unlocked: How to Unlock Yourself to Be Aligned. And to be that kind of leader.

Okay. All right. Well, we're going to have to have some conversations about that. Okay. Listen, everybody, I am so delighted that we had this opportunity to find out about being aligned. Right? So thank you. It's been an amazing discussion. And as I said to you before, I never know where my discussions are going to go.

That's good. That's good. You follow your instinct.

It just depends where we're heading, and we'll go down that road. So, uh, everyone please write in. Tell me how much you love Torrance, and if you'd like to see her come back, and what you want her to discuss, because clearly this is a woman that has a lot of good things to say. So this is CB. Thank you so Thank you so much, my friends. Thank you everyone for being here. I love you guys, and I'm gonna see you next week.

Ciao!

Oh wait, how do I say that in French? Um, uh, I can think of Italian, German. All right, give me the French to say goodbye.

Au revoir.

Of course, au revoir.

Au revoir. Merci, merci, CB. Okay, thank you so much.

How do we say until next week?

Jusqu'à la semaine prochaine.

What she said. Okay.

À la semaine prochaine, you said.

Yes. Bye, everybody. See you next week.

Thank you for having me. It was great fun. Thank you.