Challenges of the C-Suite with Dr. Ana Melikian, Episode 26

Hello, everyone. Guess what? You've tuned into CB Bowman Live. Today is Challenges of the C-Suite. And you know what? You know, I always give you a secret, right? Well, just hold on. I'll give you the secret in a few minutes. First, I have to do my advertising, right? That's what they tell me I need to do. But LinkedIn says you can only do a little bit. So pay close attention because I don't think I could repeat it, and it's a good one. Okay, first, you know I'm the CEO of the Association of Corporate Executive Coaches, right? And I know you know that we have our annual conference coming up, but what you don't know is this year we are doing it on Zoom. Oh my God, I'm so excited! And we're having a free pre-conference, which our guest is going to speak on. And after you hear her today, you're going to run and register. I know you are, right? And so you can find it on LinkedIn, and also you can send me a note, right? DM me, as the kids say. But also, here's the thing for the conference. For all the listeners that are on now, you can come in for the secret ACEC price, but you have to use the code S as in Sam, C as in Charlie, C as in Charlie. And it's only good until the end of today. And I'm going to tell you, you'll save a couple of hundred dollars. So you want to do that because the ACEC conference, right? Association of Corporate Executive Coaches. It's a kick-ass conference this year and it's over 4 days. So you don't have to— Anna, I see your husband. Let's bring him in so he could say hi.

Oh, I'm here in the live call in LinkedIn, LinkedIn Live. This is my husband James with our dog Puffy. Why don't you pick up Buffy?

And so James is in real estate, in commercial real estate.

Yes, but my energy is spent now. Yeah, uh, I'm, uh, here.

What's this? These are Japanese manuscripts.

Oh, I bought hundreds of them a couple of years ago, and now I post them on Facebook. Let me— my camera is off. Okay.

Yes, yes.

Is she there? Yes.

Listen, we want to talk about your work, which is important because that's what Hannah tells me about, which is the real estate section and Puffy, her dog.

So yes, there he is.

Oh, he looks so beautiful. He just went— came back from the His weekly groomer. Oh, okay. So now let's get back to business here. So I've told you about the main conference. It's on the screen scrolling by. 4 days, May 6th and 20th, June 3rd and 17th. And don't forget, sign up by the end of the day, use the code SCC, and you'll get a wonderful, wonderful discount. Now here's the other things you want to know. I'm in Clubhouse. You know, I'm a contender. I have to be where the superstars are. And I have 2 programs on Clubhouse that you want to tune in. So the way that you do that is follow me on Clubhouse, CB Bowman. One show is for executive coaches, and that's On Saturday and Wednesday, and Anna and I do that together. So much fun. We learn so much from all the people that are stopping in. Hey, you know, that's where you'll find people like Snoop Dogg, Justin Bieber. I'm— listen, it's the place to be, right? So come to that Wednesdays for executive coaches at 5 Mountain and Saturday at 9 Mountain. Then we have the challenges that leaders face on Clubhouse, and that's on Wednesday at 6 Mountain Time. Okay, then of course, you know, because you're here now, LinkedIn Live, right? Yeah, I'm just doing it all because I'm having so much fun. And so now we're going to go to our special— Oh, I forgot to tell you This Thursday we won't be on LinkedIn Live. We're coming back next Thursday with two shows on Thursday. Let me tell you, just watch CB Bowman and you'll keep up. Okay, now I have another secret for you. Are you listening, Anna? Doctor Anna Malikian. You know, you guys wonder how I do it all. Well, I've got 2 things that work in my favor— 3. One is I don't like to sit still. 2, I do— I really believe in that Just Do It Nike commercial. 2, I have a superstar husband who supports everything I do. And 3, 3, I have a personal board of directors. These are people that are close to my heart and support me 100%, even telling me when I'm wrong. And my secret today is I have one of those peeps on the show, Dr. Anna Malikian. She is my secret sauce when it comes to LinkedIn, And a heck of a lot of other technology. So you're in for a treat because I'm telling you who is part of my peeps, right? Anna, I'm so honored to have you on the show. I just adore you. I've known you for eons. You always have such a wonderful smile, personality. I call you up, I'm frustrated, you say Okay, so let's just unravel this. And I'm like, what was I frustrated about? Oh my God, I look so silly in front of her. But hey, that's what your personal board is about, right? You can look silly and they help you out. Anna, please introduce yourself. Dr. Anna Malikian.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, and a pleasure to be here. And, um, Uh, if people are wondering about my accent, that is the first thing that comes across, and I try to leverage to my favor because makes me unique. Uh, and I, even if I'm in person with people, I like to play the game, where do you think that my accent is from? And rarely people get it right. And, uh, it's, uh, something interesting to see where people look at, put me in. So people that are listening, and if they want to comment and do a guess. We love to play that game here too. And that to take the suspense out, I'm originally from Portugal. So my language, my mother tongue is Portuguese, and I live in Phoenix, Arizona. That is now home for 17 years. And it's where I married, where I have my daughter and my dog Puffy that was already introduced here. Um, and from psychology, that is my past career, is in psychology. I, when I moved here to the United States, I transitioned to become a coach. And what I do now, I coach executives of micro businesses, uh, typically one-person business people like coaches and consultants that they work B2B, and many of them work with big organizations. But they have to— they are running their own business in a, in a micro way. I call the solo biz. That demands a special mindset for it. And I specialize in helping them outorganize their business in a simple, straightforward way with a pipeline full of ideal clients waiting for them.

But you do more than that. Much more than that. You also help people identify what their secret sauce is and how to communicate that secret sauce to clients. And that is so valuable because I can't tell you how many times when I've gone in to do some volunteer work for a group of coaches and I say to them, what's your equity? What makes you different? And inevitably the answer is, I care. Or I want to coach them to make a difference. Or I'm an expert in leadership skills. None of that is memorable. And Anna and I have tons of conversations about that. I come from corporate America, branding, some iconic brands that I've done that are still on the shelf for General Foods and Kraft Foods. Anna comes from a psych background. She could get inside the mind of your clients. Watch it, she's dangerous, right? And so between the two of us, gosh, we've helped so many people Really identify their super strength and how to advertise and market that super strength. So Anna, I know you have— it's not my space. I know that you have a complete program on this. Tell us about it.

Yes. Part of my toolkit is the Book Yourself Solid. That is a system created many years ago by Michael Port. And I'm, in fact, I'm the director of education for the Book Yourself Solid at the moment, where we coach people in the system. And a lot of it is about that. The messaging is the foundation. We have a strong foundation out there to be able to attract the people that you love to work, that inspire you, that energize you, and above all, people with whom you can do your best work and really make that impact. Because you're speaking about the impact. People want to make a difference. And yes, let's honor that. But we have to be able to market that in a way that makes us more unique. And the book, yourself, saw it a lot with the personal brand identity, with the how to talk about what we do without sounding confusing, bland, or like everybody else. It's all about creating that first impression that then generates opportunities to have conversations and to build trust and credibility. to create opportunities to have sales conversations.

I want to talk about a word, a magic word you just said, credibility. That's a missing ingredient in a lot of the pies. People want to go from 0 to $2 million in warp speed, and I was one of them, by the way. Um, tell me, what does building your credibility mean?

Is credible. So if we think, so you people have to believe in what you say and believe in your values. A lot about developing the trust, credibility and trust. And, uh, this trust and credibility usually takes time. This is one of the things that I, and I know that sometimes you, I go very frontal on the thing that I like sometimes to really shock people by saying, I'm a marketer. A lot of my work is in marketing online, but I will tell you that marketing does not get you clients. And this really for the shock effect of it, because it's important to keep that in mind that marketing function is to create awareness that we exist, and that is essential for somebody to buy something from us. If they don't know that we exist, that we have something to offer, they are not going to buy anything from us ever. But it's not enough. It's the thing that marketing is essential but not enough to get us the clients. So what is in between that moment that somebody becomes aware that we exist until the moment that they buy from us is they have to know that we have something that is helpful for them, of course, and we have to build the bridge of trust and credibility for them to feel safe enough to cross that bridge. And it's a lot about being consistent out there, fulfilling the promise that we make, even in the marketing. And even in the constant present out there, with our messaging, with the titles and the certifications that we have. We cannot just be— there is so much fluff out there that we have to have substance. And people are checking that substance. They are checking our foundation. And only if they feel that we have a stable foundation, a rock-solid foundation is that they are going to stay in our sphere of influence. And then we, if we position ourselves around our strengths, around the things that we really do well, we will be developing trust and credibility.

So you've said a mouthful there. So let's break it down. Okay. So one of the things I think think we have to realize is— this is the reason why I left the classic marketing for consumer products, is that I felt that consumer products basically rested on selling you something that you really didn't need. But it works on the mind that you really need it. That new car, that new dress, those shoes, the extra box of sweets in the closet, you know. And I felt— I didn't feel real. And so I think that, you know, when you say you're getting to the buy decision, one of the things that we have to realize is in the work that we do, you get one shot. One shot with your client because— This is not buying a product. This is buying something personal that is going to stretch your values, right? And I don't know how to say it. It's something that you're going to act on for the Betterment of somebody else. Now, you could say food does the same thing, but you can buy something and taste it and not like it and throw it away, and you maybe you've wasted a couple of dollars, or you take it back to the store and you don't waste any dollars. But with coaching, it's not the same.

Right.

Right.

Yeah, it's, it's a very personal experience, and I love to make that differentiation that we are not selling a product like you're saying, the consumer product that, yes, we have some features that we are looking for. But after, okay, writes black, that we like a certain feeling, maybe a certain look. But then if we find it, and if there are 2 of them, we go to the cheaper one. Uh, is a commodity, what is something that, and as coaches, I think we should not never see our services as commodities. Uh, is something that is much more, is a personal relationship, is, uh, uh, uh, we are in a mission of helping others in whatever the different type of coaching that exist, but is almost like when we We go to a doctor. We want to make sure that people are qualified to help us, that they have experience to help us, and they really— we are going to get results. And it's not just the first one that is available, it's the one that is available that can help us be more healthy or whatever the goal is.

Yeah. And, you know, you bring to mind, it's a something I'm working on now to help executives in selecting a coach. A lot of the things that we measure is— you know, hold on one second. Dear, can you close the window? What's happening is I opened the window and I have chimes outside, so it sounds like to everybody I'm in church, which is not a bad thing. Given it's Easter week, but not probably the best for our broadcast.

And you must have a good mic because I don't hear that sound. So the mic that you have isolates well.

I do. Thank you. It's that old Apple computer, right? So now what was I saying? So The idea of not being a commodity and the idea of being able to know how to select a coach.

Yes.

Many people, especially at the top, will select a coach because they've heard— first of all, they want to keep it confidential that they don't need a coach. And that's not what coaching is about. It's not about everybody learning your secrets. Right? It's about getting better at what you're good at. And it's like a football player has a coach, not because they're a bad football player, because they probably couldn't afford one. It's because they want to become better at it, right?

All right.

The same thing happens with coaching. It's a plus factor. To have a coach, right? You want to become better. The mistake they make is that they hear their colleague, their friend had a coach, and they want to call up that same coach and expect the same results. And that's not how it works. You have to have, as you said, Anna, a personal relationship with that person. You have to have trust. What you need from a coach may not be what your friend needed. So you have to know how to evaluate, select, be open to, know where to go to find a coach. You have to know about the different levels of coaching. There is the beginner's level, the junior level, the next level up, and for people that are part of my organization, They're all master-level coaches. But beyond that, they have a portfolio of different methodologies and services so that it fits the client. Now, how does your client know that you have all of this? Your potential client? It's that credibility that you're talking about.

And communicate that because there are many people that have, they have everything. They have the experience, they have the certifications, they have the assessments, they have everything, but they are under a rock. And you cannot expect that people are there lifting rocks to see where is my ideal coach there. You really, you have to step in the top of the rock in this busy world. You really have to. And that is, uh, where you can start to become more unique with your message is really Uh, uh, pick something in what you do that is really important for you and that you don't mind to be in the top of your soapbox speaking about it. Because only like that in this busy world you are going to be noticed and then you are going to make the impact that you want to have. You really have to have the, um, and the skills that you can learn to get in the top of that rock or that soapbox. And speak, self-express yourself in your own voice, and can be the things that CB was speaking in, in the beginning. Yes, it's about making a difference. At the end of the day, it's about making a difference, but you will have a unique angle to making that difference.

Oh my gosh.

And that is what are going to make you connect with your ideal clients. And is that connection by you self-expressing yourself By you saying what you think and how you see the world, your perspective of seeing the world, your mindset around that is going to connect with certain people that are going to see, okay, this is the person to help me now for this moment.

Yes. I love coaches that come to me and say, you know, I want to coach, but I don't know what I have to offer. Well, if you don't know, your clients are not going to know. And then I say to them, tell me, tell me about your past. Oh, I was an attorney. Oh, I was in real estate. And what do you mean you don't know what to coach? Why did you leave the field? Oh, I was disillusioned. I was this, I was that. Okay, you're telling me you have an expertise in the legal world, and you were disillusioned, and you can't figure out what your super strength would be as a coach, hello.

And that is an interesting dynamic that I see repeating all over a lot. Like, I always say that one of the amazing things of the coaching profession is that, let's face it, this is not our first career. Like, I like to say, this is not our first life. We have loads of past lives and things that we did and things that enrich us. And, uh, but there is also some burnout of our past lives, our past careers. And, uh, even, how do you say, is in that process of trying, things are not well and people are trying to find it and they find coaching and they fall in love with the process and they decide themselves to become a coach. And then it's almost like they are beginners sometimes in the coaching. They are learning all skills and all of that. And they, it's almost cutting totally with their experience.

Yes. Like cutting.

Okay. It's to be, it's like, and what I see that people, the successful people, what happens is that yes, they cut it. They train themselves, they get the coaching skills, the experience as a coach, but the ones that really go big usually, they find a way of coming at peace with their past and embracing all their past experience and use that to go to the next level.

Well said. Bravo.

So it's not a repetition. They are not going to be going back to the past. It's more like a spiral evolution that they embrace the experience and they bring it forward to what they want to do now. And that is where the magic really happens.

I love where this is going because I don't think on this show I've ever talked about the challenges of the C-suite from the solopreneur perspective. And that's— audience, that's what we're talking about in a nutshell. And so, Anna, tell me, aside from understanding your super strength and understanding how you can become really a thought leader—

Yes.

Uh, in the field of coaching. And, you know, I've said to people in coaching— coaches, what are you a thought leader for? Oh, I'm not a thought leader. Of course you are. You may not be what my friend Marshall Goldsmith is, but you can be something different.

And just let me plug one thing first, and then let's go there. I'm plugging the session that we are going to do of the pre-conference that we are going to be doing this Thursday. And I think they can comment. Anybody can comment here under the video, and then we can put the link to the pre-conference that is totally free. We, me and CB, are going to do a session about this, how to intrigue your ideal client, how to have that open, that people, how do you say, that capture people's attention. So please come to that because I think that can be very helpful. And this thing of being a thought leader, I like to emphasize an article here. You absolutely can be a thought leader. Thought leader. If we speak about the thought leader in a certain thing, that is a higher barrier to cross. But let's start with, you are an expert in a certain area. You have a unique experience that you are complementing now with your training in coaching, with assessment, all the, the things that you are doing now. And this, you're a unique path that makes you the ideal resource for some people. So own that voice, express that voice, and definitely you can become a thought leader of a certain— can be a narrow niche, can be a narrow area, but you can stand your ground there and really be of service and create incredible impact. Then, From there, you really, if you want, if that is what you want to develop your own intellectual property, your own system and all of that, then you can start on the journey to become the thought leader in a certain area. But okay, there is, let's start with, first feel comfortable there and then go to the other element because I always, you're speaking about Marshall Goldsmith. And I love one, one story that he usually tells, that people, when visit his house, they say, I want to be like you, something like that. And he says, and then I walk them to my bookshelves. I show them all the books that I wrote and say, yes, write all these books. Credibility. Write all these books, and then you can be like me. There is, obviously, there is some work to do to go to that, how do you say, to be— He calls himself, I'm the number one executive coach, because he did the walk, because he did all the work to establish himself to be able to claim that title. But he's not waiting for other people to give him this title either. He claims his title, but he has the substance to sustain that claim.

And I would argue with him that he's not just a number one executive coach. He's the number one business guru in the coaching space. So I would rebrand that a little bit because, oh my God, he is a force of nature when it comes to branding.

And so, and he's, he's not afraid of expressing his voice.

No, he's not. He will tell you in a second, no, no. And he will say to you, stop. Say thank you, Marshall.

And at the same time, he's a very humble person.

Yes.

That is what I think is one of the magics. Sometimes we have this contradiction. Uh, but, but I cannot— he's a great role model at that level. He's very— he's not— he doesn't have any problem in promoting himself and promoting what he's doing. And he's an incredible marketing, uh, the way that he puts himself out there. And at the same time, he's humble. I still remember one of my favorite interviews is an interview that he did with Alan Mulally, the past CEO of Ford Motors and the CEO that had been former CEO of the Boeing commercial airplane division. And how he acknowledged how much he learned from one of his clients that was Alan Mulally, how much he attributes the development of his ideas of working with leaders like Alan Mulally is absolutely inspiring and shows that in action, that you can be humble, you can recognize that you are always learning new things, that you learn from your clients, and the same time that he has incredible things that he can teach people, that he can coach people about.

Absolutely. He learns from the people he surrounds himself with, right? And one other thing I will say, and I don't want this to be a Marshall festival, but sending him some love. I'm sending him some love. Is he has the incredible ability to bring other people along with him on the right? I remember when he said to me, "So CB." What do you want to be known for? I looked at him and I'm like, oh gosh, nope. And I said, for the Association of Corporate Executive Coaches that I created. That's my passion. It's my goal to bring— to elevate executive coaching field. And he said to me, eh, not. Um, not? I spent over eight years doing this. Not you have to make your name known. I said, "I do." Well, people know me through A.C.E.C. No, you are the CEO. It's your name. You have to make your name known. And I started to. Disagree with him. And he said, eh, just say thank you, Marshall.

Love it. And this is perfect because it's like we are doing here a love fest to Marshall. Wonderful. But it's not being— is that quote, be yourself, everybody else is taken? Marshall Goldsmith is already taken. He has it. It's how can we be ourselves? How can we take ourselves to the next level? And yes, what can we learn from people like him, but to apply, to do our own magic in ourselves?

Exactly, exactly. And he's leaving a legacy now, uh, a lot of people are working on it, where he's just giving away. And his desire is to see Everyone who wants to be successful becomes successful, and it's not a trade secret. Here are the steps that you can take. So I mean, he he garners so much of my respect because it's not sitting on a podium and saying I I I. He's sitting on a podium and saying you can have your own podium. Let's, let's make that happen.

And, and I think the question for all of us is how can we own that? How can we be more of ourselves and express more our voice in a way that resonates with the right people that we can build a business around? Because we are even— I always say to my clients, I work with lots of coaches and consultants that say, even if you are running a nonprofit, You have to be on the black.

Yes.

You have to be— the cash flow has to be positive. Even if you have the luxury to be able to start your own foundation or nonprofit, the cash flow has to be positive. So why taking your coaching practice not like a business?

Oh, it's so true. And we think that we do. So this is another challenge that solopreneurs have. And this is another one of your areas of expertise, Anna. Um, just something as simple as taxes. I'm all— I felt like I said to Anna one day, this is— I feel like I'm always paying taxes. And she said, well, CB, You have, you have a separate account for taxes, right? And I said, no, I'm just always paying it. No, that's not how you run a business, CB. You have to have a separate account as though you're giving it to your son for taxes. And it never occurred to me to do that. And it became so much easier at the end of the year when I had to pay these massive taxes. Yeah.

It's, it's, it's like when we speak about personal budgeting, people, oh my gosh, it's Christmas or the holidays. Oh my gosh, I don't— it's like, it's every year in the same day. So what is the surprise? It's like, okay, and the taxes? Sorry, we live in the way that we organize our We know that we have to pay taxes to have the roads that we go to, have electricity most of the times. The Texas people can have a different opinion about that. But the thing is that we know that part of running a business is paying taxes. So it's going back. And the thing of having a different account for the taxes is the old envelope system. Oh, it's very funny because here they speak about the envelope system. I remember in Portugal, My grandfather, he will have the money for the groceries in a little envelope, the money for other things, the reserve money, almost literally under a mattress. But so we are just, if we take it out or if we separate from the beginning, because we know that many of the taxes was never as in the first place. So we put it apart, and that it is. When it is, it's much, much easier to deal with it.

Yeah, yeah. It's like, you remember when you go to the bank and you get those little coupons that you save up for Christmas, and you bring your little booklet in and they tear one off and you're actually depositing into your Christmas fund? It's the same thing.

But is the same, but is working with human psychology and human nature, because that is one— it's incredible. If you think about economics, there are at least 2 Nobel Prizes in economy that is about behavioral economics. That is when the economists, they arrive and they prove that we have to enter into the factor that we are not rational beings. We have all these other dynamics in place. And we have in economy theories entered that into the equation. That is why retirement, for most people, we cannot say, okay, let people decide, because something urgent happens and we don't take a part from it. And we know, like, as a whole, it's better to create a system that automatically a certain percentage go to that end.

Yes.

And that way, And in our systems that we are the owners of our businesses, we are the— that is amazing thing. The name of this show is The Challenge of the C-Suite. And most of my clients are executive leadership coaches that work with business and big organizations, large organizations. So they are very used to the complexity of the C-suite. But sometimes they get lost in their own C-suite of that one-person business.

Yeah.

But it's also, they have to, they are, they have to wear many different hats. Sometimes all the hats of the C-suite, they have to be the CEOs, the CFOs, the COOs, the CMOs. Yes, they, but they have to own that.

Yeah.

They have to own that. And it's a different level of complexity. It's a micro level of complexity where they have to be very aware of their own psychological dynamics around it.

Mm-hmm.

And only when they own that and leverage these small things that we can do, like creating a different account for taxes, creating the advisory board that advise, that brings the different eyes to put some light in our blind spots, to give us support when we need it. It's by playing with that that we really can be successful as a one-person or micro, micro businesses. And we can still work with big organizations and help big organizations and be aware of the complexity at that more macro level.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So, okay. So we've talked about the financial side. We've talked about the credibility side. Let's talk about the marketing side, especially now with all of the marketing vehicles that are at our fingertips. We can get lost in this.

Yes.

Let's, let's talk about the pros and cons for each one of them.

Yeah. And yes, but before going there, because I know that you like to give in in these interviews, loads of practical things, like things that people can bite and really do something with it. And I hope this conversation at least is generating ideas and different point of views, but I would like to do at least 2 book recommendations.

Yes.

For the financial aspect of a solo, a small business, Profit First of Mike Michalowicz. Um, I really advise that system. And for the basics of marketing and selling for a service-based business is of course the Book Yourself Solid of Michael Port. I'm totally biased on it, but it literally was by finding the Book Yourself Solid that I transformed what in the first year of my coaching was an expensive hobby in a profitable business. And if I'm a successful coach today, helping other coaches, it's thanks— was in the first year that I became a coach. I got the Book Yourself Solid book and I tried to apply it. And I, since then, I'm improving in the application of it for myself and to my clients and see things growing. So that are like 2 books that I'll say everybody should have them in Not just in the bookshelf, because shelf help will not help, but read, underline, and come back to them.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I love both books. I have both of them and highly endorse what Anna is saying. And Anna, while we're doing advertising, please tell us about your podcast.

So because one of the things that we know and we are speaking a lot here is about mindset. It's the way that we see the world, the business world, our own place in this world. So, and a lot is these glasses that we can wear to see the way that we see the world, our beliefs that we have. And that is what we usually call the mindsets. And I'm a true believer that it's not a mindset, our mindsets that we have. There are many different, like, We have glasses to go outside with the sun, glasses to read, uh, our favorite glasses because— so we, we have to have the flexibility of, of changing mindsets depending on the circumstances where we are. And we have to create that flexibility. It's what Carol Dweck in her book and work, The Mindset, speaks a lot, the growth mindset and the fixed mindset. And all of us have some areas, mainly coaches, coaches are Generally, a lot of them are growth mindset people. They love to learn. But even if a lot of our mindsets are growth mindsets, we know that we can learn, we know that we can improve, we also have areas of our life that we have fixed mindsets, our blind spots, or the areas that we feel, oh, we cannot do anything about. And no, we can do something about. So we— and I think—

Can I just interrupt a Yes. One of those blind spots for executive coaching is not being willing to brag about your success.

Yes.

As, as a profession or an industry, whatever, or a trade, whatever you want to call it, we are the most humble, and we have to learn how to brag So that it doesn't sound braggadocious, that there's a difference between the 2.

Yes, we should be speaking about the successes, our successes, the successes of our clients to inspire the people that it's possible to change. We are, we are facilitating change processes, and we should speak more loudly, absolutely, about the success stories that we have. To bring more people along in this journey. Absolutely, 100%, I agree with that. And now I lost my train of thought.

We'll come back to it. Yes, I want to emphasize that because this is why people don't believe in our profession, is because they don't hear enough success stories. stories, and you could tell about those success stories without revealing who your clients are. I mean, years ago, Harvard Business Review wrote, and I will never forgive them for this, that executive coaching is like the Wild Wild West. It is not like the Wild Wild West. We're very precise. We understand the human nature of We understand— well, the good ones— we understand the business nature. We understand complexity of problems. We understand triggers of good behavior and challenging behavior. And that is not the wild, wild west. So drop the mic, Harvard Business Review.

And is the thing of upping the game even in terms of measurement? Because that, yes, organizations, they like to see the return of investment. So I'm going to invest in this executive coach. I'm going to invest in this training. What I'm getting out of it?

Yes.

And it's part of the journey as the executive leadership coach developing their toolbox of tools that they have. The— you are one of the proponents that I think you speak this in a very clear way, the importance of having assessments. Because it's a way of measuring. You can have the baseline, then you can have the other points of intervention, but you can show how, what— and I know that return of investment is a very complex subject, but you have ways of measuring the impact of the things that you do. And this is part of what a good executive coach has to do for their clients. And I will always bring the glass, the mirror back, and for their own business, because that is where we were speaking about the marketing and all the different marketing things out there. That is important for us to be aware, to decide, to be strategic, and at the same time decide what are the key performance indicators.

Yes.

What are the things that we can do That really produced the bigger impact and where we should invest our time, what we can delegate. But delegation is not abdication. So how can we measure what we delegate and the results from that and all that complexity?

Yeah, you know, so you touched on one of my hot buttons, Anna.

I love it.

Going out and trying to solicit clients because they're talking about their return on investment. And because I come from classic marketing, I just get so upset when I hear that. And the reason is that coaches cannot promote the return on investment for their client. Coaching is not an isolated business. When you coach somebody, there are multiple factors that infect, effect, and affect the results. When you're in marketing and you measure the ROI of something, you can measure it in isolation of anything that can contaminate the data.

And I will even argue that in marketing sometimes, yes, some marketing campaigns are easier to measure, but the overall marketing of a company is the accumulation effect of loads of activities that create an overall— it's not a linear line. It's a much more complex kind of measurement. And I think for the return on investment of coaching, it's not a linear line. It's a lot of different things. And at the same time, it's not either or. And at the same time, recognizing that complexity and that is not linear, we have to have ways of measuring the impact of what we do.

Yes, we can. And, but we shouldn't confuse the numbers.

Yes.

Now you can ask your client, what was the return on investment for them? Because they're paying you and they had an expectation of results, right? And if you can use assessments as markers to say, well, we did a 360, and in that 360 we found out that 90% of the feedback was negative, and now we do another 360 after coaching, and 90% of the feedback is positive, you can say that coaching influenced that behavior change, but not 100%, because the person could have gotten a promotion and then been hap— you know, be a happy person, and therefore their behavior changed, right? Because they'd be— they were recognized. Did they get the promotion because you coached them into behavior that was more accepted? Probably.

So, and the thing, how to articulate that is, that is why, in terms of when you are saying, how can we speak about the successes of coaching? But he's speaking about, and that I think there is now so much the thing about the power of stories and all of that. Let's embrace that to tell stories that inspire people to act. That doesn't mean that, uh, in, in one of the things that we learned from the, the, the good, uh, people that craft stories is that, um, is the hero journey and all of those things. But usually the coach in the hero journey is not the hero. The coach in the hero journey Is the, the mentor, the guru, the, uh, that is there to support, to influence. But there is another, the hero, the one that put one foot in front of the other is the client.

Yes.

Is, and, and I think that that gives us the opportunity of telling these stories in a way that we put the clients in the star role that they deserve. But still speak about the importance of having the right mentors, the right interventions at the right time that are so critical for make influence that to happen.

Absolutely. I agree. You know, we have a comment from Orly. I love this, Orly. She said, if I recall, Harvard Business Review wrote that management Consulting is the Wild Wild West. They— yeah, but they also wrote it about executive coaching. I think they like to sometimes be provocative. Yeah, well, except that provocative can hurt an entire field. And, you know, we spend years and years, uh, recuperating from that provocative statement, and it's not fair to us. And It blindsides leaders who read Harvard Business Review to think, OK, I don't need a management consultant. I don't need an executive coach because they don't have their act together. And that is detrimental. And that's what I'm commenting to.

And that makes me think— because I know one of your values is collaboration. And that, I think, is something that as coaches we have to learn to collaborate even more with others.

Yes.

And maybe we should be bringing more to, to our businesses and to what we do. These, like we were speaking about the storytellers, we should be bringing more the communicators, specialists, people that their expertise is communicating a message. in the writing format, in the video format, bring these experts to our fold to help us to communicate the impact of our work.

I agree with you, and I think that there are more vehicles for us to do that now than we had before. You know, I, you know, thank you to LinkedIn, but I always thought that LinkedIn was the only game in town for us to do that besides the traditional write an article, write a book kind of thing, write a blog. And now I'm seeing that LinkedIn has upped its game to allow us to talk more through LinkedIn Live, through newspapers, through posting. But also you do have platforms like Instagram who are opening up so that we can have a stronger voice as a community. And our responsibility as a community is to continue to set the bar higher and higher and higher, um, so that, uh, we separate the milk from the cream, right? And this conversation has helped coaches. Anna, you do a remarkable, remarkable job In helping coaches come from behind the tree, like lightning is hitting, and come out into the sunshine so that people know where to go for some more support and change in their behavior. And just people recognizing that we use so many forms from Simon Sinek. To Marshall Goldsmith, to Anna Malikian, to allowing solopreneurs to play in the big leagues.

Can I give a very— a framework that I think can be very helpful, mainly for the solopreneurs?

Yes.

I like to tell people to think of a triangle. Okay. One side of the triangle is mindset, the way that you see the world, your beliefs. The other side of the triangle is strategies, and the other side of the triangle is implementation. To be successful as a one-person business, as a microbusiness, and a business in general, we have to have the right mindset. We have to the right beliefs to sustain us, and in the case of the coaches is a lot going from what I call the SOS. Shining object syndrome. Oh, lifelong learners, a new thing to learn. Let's we go. It's fun. But we have to transform that energy into what I call the SOC. Simplify as much as we can our business to streamline it. O, optimize it. Optimize our systems in our business as ourselves, as high performers in our businesses. And the C, collaborate. We can, because we decide to be one person of microbusiness, in no way means that we have to do it alone. The secret of success is the right collaborations. So that for me is the right mindset. Then strategy.

What's the K?

No, C-O-C-S-O-C. S for simplifying. O from optimizing and C for collaborating.

I would add a K.

That will be kick ass. I like it. I like it. And then strategies. There are many roadmaps. My favorite is the Book Yourself Solid. Uh, I have my own roadmap for LinkedIn success, but the roadmaps, there are many effective roadmaps out there. But you can have the right mindset. You can have even the amazing roadmap, blueprint, or whatever you want to call it there. But if you are not implementing it day in and day out, kicking ass, you are not going to see the results.

I love it. And I will— oh, before I add something, I see Mark, my old friend Mark, has written in. He said they wrote that article when coaching was the Wild West. Little standards, uh, no ICF, no ACEC, and people becoming coaches with little to no preparation. Point well taken. Uh, Mark also said, what was the name of the book on finance?

Profit First. I will write there on the chat.

Profit, Profit First. And great book. And so we only have a few minutes left. I want to emphasize the importance, the critical importance of having your own board of directors. Make sure that these folks are on your team. There's no microaggression. There's no hidden bias. They are simply on your team. And you can test, you can fire, you can move on, but you cannot do this alone. There is just no such animal. It's all with— and those of you that are old enough— with the help of your friends, to quote the Beatles.

Right.

And Anna is one of my dearest friends. So I hope that you all will find your Anna, and if not, hire the woman. She is amazing and one of the kindest people I've ever met. I'm quite serious about that. So, Anna, any last words?

Just, I'm honored to be here. I'm honored for the opportunity, and let's keep this conversation going. I like to see this as a conversation starter for people that are listening. So please communicate with us, connect with us here on LinkedIn. If you are not following us on LinkedIn or connect on LinkedIn, Let's say it. Let's do that. Clubhouse, Instagram, wherever we are, let's keep the connections going, strengthen the connections, and helping each other.

And one of Anna's famous quotes is, let's keep the conversation going. And Anna, wait, we forgot to talk about your Solo Biz Academy.

People can go to— so the best way, go— let me From— since we are in LinkedIn, I will put on the chat, people can go to— I'm going to put a website there, linkth2h.com/free. And that is a great masterclass that I have on LinkedIn of my LinkedIn approach that I think can be very helpful for coaches and consultants and people who believe in networking. So it's linked. So just the word linked, h2h.com/free.

How wonderful. And you, the name of your podcast?

Mindset Zone.

Okay. And you have the Solo Biz Academy?

Yes. And they can go to solobizacademy.com.

So you see, Anna and I did not Let any dust settle under our feet. That's probably why we get along so well. We're both a little touched by the fairies, right? Little fairy dust sprinkled all over us, right? Oh, listen guys, this has been a wonderful conversation. I'm so glad so many people listened in, and if you missed any part of it, it's It's on LinkedIn, it's on YouTube, it's on Facebook, and it will be on Twitter. And you can listen to it on iHeartRadio and Apple Podcasts. So with that, I'm going to say to you, go. And you know my final words for today, I'm going to borrow them. Let's keep the conversation going.

Thank you.

Bye now, Anna. Thank you so much.

My pleasure.

Just adore you. Thank you. Bye everybody, see you now on Tuesday. Remember, we're gonna take Thursday off, but coming back next Thursday with 2 shows. Wait, wait, where's the camera? 2 shows. Okay, bye.